Re: TRT & penile shrinkage

[Guest guest]

Ones penis would look very small in the soft state when Estradiol E2 levels are

to high or even to low. It just goes into hiding. This is one way I can tell

if I am going to low or to high. Most men older on TRT will get higher levels

of E2 and younger men if doing to much testosterone.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: chrisdl2008 <chrisdl2008@...>

> Subject: TRT & penile shrinkage

>

> Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 2:32 PM

> I've read a number of posts of late

> on different boards where few guys are experiencing penile

> shrinkage on TRT (seems to be injections mostly)

>

>

> I know this happens with body builders taking steroids but

> would not expect it to happen in TRT since I thought the

> only way this happens is if one is taking supraphysiological

> levels of testosterone which is converting to high amounts

> of estradiol.

>

> Would lower e2 cause penile shrinkage just as high amounts

> seem to do? or is e2 not the only culprit in causing

> shrinkage?

>

> Anyone experienced this? and correct it through adjusting

> dosages?

>

>

> Also some people CLAIM penile growth with testosterone

> (mostly girth) - this seems feasible through high levels of

> DHT but very unlikely if the person has gone through puberty

> - but androgen receptors don't disappear completely after

> puberty I don't think so maybe it's possible. It's also well

> known DHT cream applied to the penis in prepubertal boys

> increases the penis dramatically but no studies in men.

>

>

> Anyone have higher levels of DHT whilst on TRT and

> experienced any growth (whether its length or width)?

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not on TRT (as yet anyway) but have noticed penile shrinkage before if

having few orgasms a day for few days in a row. My scrotum would also feel very

tight and maybe unsurprisingly libido lower.

Hormones must change after orgasm - I know prolactin increases but not sure

about e2, testosterone and DHT etc

Having sex or watching porn is meant to increase testosterone but I think this

must just be the weakly bound testosterone coming into play and not testosterone

levels actually rising on a more permanent basis.

If e2 can cause penile shrinkage so easily you would have thought by the same

token DHT and a good TT:e2 ratio could help increase penile tissue

>

> > From: chrisdl2008 <chrisdl2008@...>

> > Subject: TRT & penile shrinkage

> >

> > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 2:32 PM

> > I've read a number of posts of late

> > on different boards where few guys are experiencing penile

> > shrinkage on TRT (seems to be injections mostly)

> >

> >

> > I know this happens with body builders taking steroids but

> > would not expect it to happen in TRT since I thought the

> > only way this happens is if one is taking supraphysiological

> > levels of testosterone which is converting to high amounts

> > of estradiol.

> >

> > Would lower e2 cause penile shrinkage just as high amounts

> > seem to do? or is e2 not the only culprit in causing

> > shrinkage?

> >

> > Anyone experienced this? and correct it through adjusting

> > dosages?

> >

> >

> > Also some people CLAIM penile growth with testosterone

> > (mostly girth) - this seems feasible through high levels of

> > DHT but very unlikely if the person has gone through puberty

> > - but androgen receptors don't disappear completely after

> > puberty I don't think so maybe it's possible. It's also well

> > known DHT cream applied to the penis in prepubertal boys

> > increases the penis dramatically but no studies in men.

> >

> >

> > Anyone have higher levels of DHT whilst on TRT and

> > experienced any growth (whether its length or width)?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

When one goes in to do labs they are told no sex for 48 hrs before doing labs on

the First T test.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: chrisdl2008 <chrisdl2008@...>

> Subject: Re: TRT & penile shrinkage

>

> Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 3:05 PM

> I'm not on TRT (as yet anyway) but

> have noticed penile shrinkage before if having few orgasms a

> day for few days in a row. My scrotum would also feel very

> tight and maybe unsurprisingly libido lower.

>

> Hormones must change after orgasm - I know prolactin

> increases but not sure about e2, testosterone and DHT etc

>

> Having sex or watching porn is meant to increase

> testosterone but I think this must just be the weakly bound

> testosterone coming into play and not testosterone levels

> actually rising on a more permanent basis.

>

> If e2 can cause penile shrinkage so easily you would have

> thought by the same token DHT and a good TT:e2 ratio could

> help increase penile tissue

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > > From: chrisdl2008 <chrisdl2008@...>

> > > Subject: TRT & penile

> shrinkage

> > >

> > > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 2:32 PM

> > > I've read a number of posts of late

> > > on different boards where few guys are

> experiencing penile

> > > shrinkage on TRT (seems to be injections mostly)

> > >

> > >

> > > I know this happens with body builders taking

> steroids but

> > > would not expect it to happen in TRT since I

> thought the

> > > only way this happens is if one is taking

> supraphysiological

> > > levels of testosterone which is converting to

> high amounts

> > > of estradiol.

> > >

> > > Would lower e2 cause penile shrinkage just as

> high amounts

> > > seem to do? or is e2 not the only culprit in

> causing

> > > shrinkage?

> > >

> > > Anyone experienced this? and correct it through

> adjusting

> > > dosages?

> > >

> > >

> > > Also some people CLAIM penile growth with

> testosterone

> > > (mostly girth) - this seems feasible through high

> levels of

> > > DHT but very unlikely if the person has gone

> through puberty

> > > - but androgen receptors don't disappear

> completely after

> > > puberty I don't think so maybe it's possible.

> It's also well

> > > known DHT cream applied to the penis in

> prepubertal boys

> > > increases the penis dramatically but no studies

> in men.

> > >

> > >

> > > Anyone have higher levels of DHT whilst on TRT

> and

> > > experienced any growth (whether its length or

> width)?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

This answers the second part of my question - how much of it is accurate is open

to debate as it came from a health & wellness website.

" At the end of sexual activity, cGMP is disabled by the enzyme PDE5, and nitric

oxide production decreases, causing the penis to return to its flaccid state or

female sex organs to return to normal. The anti-inflammatory hormone

prostaglandin E-1 is released to relax tissue and muscle fiber and calm the body

after sex. The pituitary gland releases the hormone and neurotransmitter

oxytocin to induce a sense of sexual satisfaction after sex or orgasm. The

pituitary gland also releases the hormone prolactin to repress the effect of

dopamine, thus reducing sexual arousal by decreasing the levels of estrogen in

women and testosterone in men. The brain also releases the neurotransmitter

serotonin to modulate sexual desire.

All of these processes, however, break down when you engage in too much sex,

masturbation, pornography viewing, or sexual fantasy, and especially when a man

over-ejaculates. Excessive sexual activity and over-ejaculation lead to

overproduction of androgen hormones, causing adrenal and sex organ fatigue, and

excess release of dopamine to maintain prolonged sexual arousal. Since dopamine

is the precursor to the stress hormone epinephrine (adrenaline), excess dopamine

results in the adrenal glands overproducing epinephrine and putting the body in

a prolonged state of fight-or-flight stress. At the same time, norepinephrine is

synthesized from dopamine and released from the adrenal medulla into the blood

as a hormone, along with the stress hormone cortisol. Epinephrine,

norepinephrine and cortisol fuel the fight-or-flight response, directly

increasing heart rate, triggering the release of glucose from energy stores, and

increasing blood flow to skeletal muscle. All of this has a severely taxing

effect on the body.

The hormone prostaglandin E-2, which serves an important function in sexual

arousal, is also overproduced and has an inflammatory effect on the body,

damaging tissues, nerves and joints, weakening immunity, causing muscular and

nervous pain, and promoting infection, inflammation, and even cancer. Chronic

elevation of epinephrine and prostaglandin E2 results in severe damage to brain

cells and parasympathetic nerves in the liver, lungs, adrenal glands, heart,

blood vessels, digestive system, pancreas, gallbladder, ovaries, uterus, cervix,

testicles and prostate. As a result, you can experience a variety of symptoms,

including depression, anxiety, bodily pains, vision problems, persistent sexual

arousal and sexual dysfunction such as impotence and premature ejaculation in

men and a lack of sexual stimulation in women.

All of this over-activity and stress causes the pituitary gland and testicles

(ovaries in women) to become disabled for a few days or even months, leading to

a long refraction time or a long-term sexual exhaustion and inflammation. First,

you may feel your muscles and joints become very tight and rigid upon

ejaculation. An extremely exhausted adrenal function can cause an extreme low

level of DHEA and cortisol, resulting in fatigue and pains throughout the body,

including the back. The pain becomes severe at about 2-4 hours after ejaculating

due to the sudden drop of DHEA, testosterone and DHT. You may experience pains

for a couple of days until your prolactin and cortisol levels are returned to

their normal ranges.

In order to reverse the ill-effects of excessive sexual activity,

over-masturbation, or over-ejaculation, stop sexual activity for a few weeks.

Let your body rest and replenish. Then you can come back to it with a lower

frequency. A healthy habit is to ejaculate a total of three to four times a

week.

ViaPal-HGH-P, ArginOx and fish oil (1000 mg each meal) will help you gradually

rejuvenate your neuro-endocrine function and boost your prostaglandin E-1/E-3,

oxytocin and nitric oxide production for erection and orgasm. American ginseng

and maca help to rejuvenate your entire body. Horny goat weed and yohimbe will

help increase flood flow and nutrient absorption for a harder erection and

better ejaculation control. Damiana and saw palmetto will heal your prostate,

which is responsible for producing and releasing semen and which is most likely

overworked with your excessive sexual activity or masturbation. "

> > >

> > > > From: chrisdl2008 <chrisdl2008@>

> > > > Subject: TRT & penile

> > shrinkage

> > > >

> > > > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 2:32 PM

> > > > I've read a number of posts of late

> > > > on different boards where few guys are

> > experiencing penile

> > > > shrinkage on TRT (seems to be injections mostly)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I know this happens with body builders taking

> > steroids but

> > > > would not expect it to happen in TRT since I

> > thought the

> > > > only way this happens is if one is taking

> > supraphysiological

> > > > levels of testosterone which is converting to

> > high amounts

> > > > of estradiol.

> > > >

> > > > Would lower e2 cause penile shrinkage just as

> > high amounts

> > > > seem to do? or is e2 not the only culprit in

> > causing

> > > > shrinkage?

> > > >

> > > > Anyone experienced this? and correct it through

> > adjusting

> > > > dosages?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Also some people CLAIM penile growth with

> > testosterone

> > > > (mostly girth) - this seems feasible through high

> > levels of

> > > > DHT but very unlikely if the person has gone

> > through puberty

> > > > - but androgen receptors don't disappear

> > completely after

> > > > puberty I don't think so maybe it's possible.

> > It's also well

> > > > known DHT cream applied to the penis in

> > prepubertal boys

> > > > increases the penis dramatically but no studies

> > in men.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Anyone have higher levels of DHT whilst on TRT

> > and

> > > > experienced any growth (whether its length or

> > width)?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hey good luck with all that info down there. Once you are passed puberty with

the current valid knowledge available, the penis cannot grow with lower this or

upping that...If it did and more research was made, someone or company would be

very very rich....

I don't know if you are angry due to your size, but the only effective way to

increase your penis is through penis exercises. Or surgery if you can afford it.

I will not go out and start buying up products that are not valid and could be

dangerous. I am doing my routines and hoping for the best along with researching

any additional help I feel I may need and can afford. I was screwed at puberty,

and so was other men. I am doing something about it now. I suggest you do the

same.

If you are a biologist, chemist, Endo / Urologist researcher please continue to

find a valid solution for having a small penis due to high estrogen / low

estrogen, hypo., etc.

[Guest guest]

When I started reading this I thought, Oh No! I have to have less sex! I was

relieved to read that three or four times a week is a healthy habit, that's

about what I get. Stopping sexual activity for a few weeks is unthinkable.

Excessive sexual activity and over-ejaculation lead to overproduction of

androgen hormones, causing adrenal and sex organ fatigue, and excess release of

dopamine to maintain prolonged sexual arousal.>

> In order to reverse the ill-effects of excessive sexual activity,

over-masturbation, or over-ejaculation, stop sexual activity for a few weeks.

Let your body rest and replenish. Then you can come back to it with a lower

frequency. A healthy habit is to ejaculate a total of three to four times a

week.

>

[Guest guest]

uu1845 - If I remember right you said you were primary hypogonadal but did not

know the cause and that you had klinefelters test but proved negative. You can

still be mosiac klinefelters and not have this picked up - it is important to

have about 50 cells analysed or else it may not get picked up if your are mosiac

and better still to have blood /tissue samples from different areas of the body.

I read this in a medical journal.

I'm not sure if you are absolutely correct in saying the categorically that the

penis cannot grow after puberty because some people who have klinefelters (i.e

puberty was not complete)on this board have claimed their penis has grown

slightly in length and more on girth on TRT. Some men on also claim to have

experienced this knowing they are not primary hypogonadal using TRT particularly

if high DHT.

I seems possible to me in the case of klinefelters that it may be possible since

they have not completed puberty completely which is part of the obvious physical

characteristics (i.e. reduced pubic hair and consequently small testicles and

phallus). As for people not falling into this category and claiming increases in

size I think its bullshit but how can you say someone is a liar for sure.

>

> Hey good luck with all that info down there. Once you are passed puberty with

the current valid knowledge available, the penis cannot grow with lower this or

upping that...If it did and more research was made, someone or company would be

very very rich....

>

> I don't know if you are angry due to your size, but the only effective way to

increase your penis is through penis exercises. Or surgery if you can afford it.

I will not go out and start buying up products that are not valid and could be

dangerous. I am doing my routines and hoping for the best along with researching

any additional help I feel I may need and can afford. I was screwed at puberty,

and so was other men. I am doing something about it now. I suggest you do the

same.

>

> If you are a biologist, chemist, Endo / Urologist researcher please continue

to find a valid solution for having a small penis due to high estrogen / low

estrogen, hypo., etc.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good find I remember reading a study like this a few yrs ago but can't find it.

I believe it's a true study.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: chrisdl2008 <chrisdl2008@...>

> Subject: Re: TRT & penile shrinkage

>

> Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 6:24 PM

> This answers the second part of my

> question - how much of it is accurate is open to debate as

> it came from a health & wellness website.

>

> " At the end of sexual activity, cGMP is disabled by the

> enzyme PDE5, and nitric oxide production decreases, causing

> the penis to return to its flaccid state or female sex

> organs to return to normal. The anti-inflammatory hormone

> prostaglandin E-1 is released to relax tissue and muscle

> fiber and calm the body after sex. The pituitary gland

> releases the hormone and neurotransmitter oxytocin to induce

> a sense of sexual satisfaction after sex or orgasm. The

> pituitary gland also releases the hormone prolactin to

> repress the effect of dopamine, thus reducing sexual arousal

> by decreasing the levels of estrogen in women and

> testosterone in men. The brain also releases the

> neurotransmitter serotonin to modulate sexual desire.

>

> All of these processes, however, break down when you engage

> in too much sex, masturbation, pornography viewing, or

> sexual fantasy, and especially when a man over-ejaculates.

> Excessive sexual activity and over-ejaculation lead to

> overproduction of androgen hormones, causing adrenal and sex

> organ fatigue, and excess release of dopamine to maintain

> prolonged sexual arousal. Since dopamine is the precursor to

> the stress hormone epinephrine (adrenaline), excess dopamine

> results in the adrenal glands overproducing epinephrine and

> putting the body in a prolonged state of fight-or-flight

> stress. At the same time, norepinephrine is synthesized from

> dopamine and released from the adrenal medulla into the

> blood as a hormone, along with the stress hormone cortisol.

> Epinephrine, norepinephrine and cortisol fuel the

> fight-or-flight response, directly increasing heart rate,

> triggering the release of glucose from energy stores, and

> increasing blood flow to skeletal muscle. All of this has a

> severely taxing effect on the body.

>

> The hormone prostaglandin E-2, which serves an important

> function in sexual arousal, is also overproduced and has an

> inflammatory effect on the body, damaging tissues, nerves

> and joints, weakening immunity, causing muscular and nervous

> pain, and promoting infection, inflammation, and even

> cancer. Chronic elevation of epinephrine and prostaglandin

> E2 results in severe damage to brain cells and

> parasympathetic nerves in the liver, lungs, adrenal glands,

> heart, blood vessels, digestive system, pancreas,

> gallbladder, ovaries, uterus, cervix, testicles and

> prostate. As a result, you can experience a variety of

> symptoms, including depression, anxiety, bodily pains,

> vision problems, persistent sexual arousal and sexual

> dysfunction such as impotence and premature ejaculation in

> men and a lack of sexual stimulation in women.

>

> All of this over-activity and stress causes the pituitary

> gland and testicles (ovaries in women) to become disabled

> for a few days or even months, leading to a long refraction

> time or a long-term sexual exhaustion and inflammation.

> First, you may feel your muscles and joints become very

> tight and rigid upon ejaculation. An extremely exhausted

> adrenal function can cause an extreme low level of DHEA and

> cortisol, resulting in fatigue and pains throughout the

> body, including the back. The pain becomes severe at about

> 2-4 hours after ejaculating due to the sudden drop of DHEA,

> testosterone and DHT. You may experience pains for a couple

> of days until your prolactin and cortisol levels are

> returned to their normal ranges.

>

> In order to reverse the ill-effects of excessive sexual

> activity, over-masturbation, or over-ejaculation, stop

> sexual activity for a few weeks. Let your body rest and

> replenish. Then you can come back to it with a lower

> frequency. A healthy habit is to ejaculate a total of three

> to four times a week.

>

> ViaPal-HGH-P, ArginOx and fish oil (1000 mg each meal) will

> help you gradually rejuvenate your neuro-endocrine function

> and boost your prostaglandin E-1/E-3, oxytocin and nitric

> oxide production for erection and orgasm. American ginseng

> and maca help to rejuvenate your entire body. Horny goat

> weed and yohimbe will help increase flood flow and nutrient

> absorption for a harder erection and better ejaculation

> control. Damiana and saw palmetto will heal your prostate,

> which is responsible for producing and releasing semen and

> which is most likely overworked with your excessive sexual

> activity or masturbation. "

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > From: chrisdl2008 <chrisdl2008@>

> > > > > Subject: TRT &

> penile

> > > shrinkage

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 2:32 PM

> > > > > I've read a number of posts of late

> > > > > on different boards where few guys are

> > > experiencing penile

> > > > > shrinkage on TRT (seems to be

> injections mostly)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I know this happens with body builders

> taking

> > > steroids but

> > > > > would not expect it to happen in TRT

> since I

> > > thought the

> > > > > only way this happens is if one is

> taking

> > > supraphysiological

> > > > > levels of testosterone which is

> converting to

> > > high amounts

> > > > > of estradiol.

> > > > >

> > > > > Would lower e2 cause penile shrinkage

> just as

> > > high amounts

> > > > > seem to do? or is e2 not the only

> culprit in

> > > causing

> > > > > shrinkage?

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone experienced this? and correct it

> through

> > > adjusting

> > > > > dosages?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Also some people CLAIM penile growth

> with

> > > testosterone

> > > > > (mostly girth) - this seems feasible

> through high

> > > levels of

> > > > > DHT but very unlikely if the person has

> gone

> > > through puberty

> > > > > - but androgen receptors don't

> disappear

> > > completely after

> > > > > puberty I don't think so maybe it's

> possible.

> > > It's also well

> > > > > known DHT cream applied to the penis

> in

> > > prepubertal boys

> > > > > increases the penis dramatically but no

> studies

> > > in men.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone have higher levels of DHT whilst

> on TRT

> > > and

> > > > > experienced any growth (whether its

> length or

> > > width)?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

thanks for remembering about my situation. I would say after researching

mosiac klinefelters, I am not it. I cried when the test came back I wasn't

klinefelters the first place I came in to understand what was wrong with me.

Puberty is long gone. Technology is not there where the body can go back in time

or 'be tricked' into thinking puberty must start again.

 I am not going to go to my doctor and ask for a bunch of more tests which will

prove what?  Seriously, what?  I know what happened to me and so does my 

doctor. At my age and my need to simply move forward from the emotional and

psychical pain being primary has caused, the best thing for me would be to

continue on the treatment I am taking. Continue to take bi-monthly or 3 months

in between on blood work to see if my T level, FSH, E2 levels are normal on

medication.

The penis issue which has lower my life expectation, well I am doing my best

every day to do something about it. I suggest you do the same.

All the research is not going to make an adult go through puberty again.

No testing cells for me. No more added tests unless I find it useful. As I get

older I have to worry about more things which I will.

If you need help with PE let me know, if not good luck in life.

[Guest guest]

UU1845

I think you jump to conclusions with a lot of things I and others say.

I did not say or infer that the body could be tricked into puberty again later

on in adult life. I said people on here who are XXY or mosaic have reported

increases in their penis size presumably because puberty was not completed in

the first place.

Also you say you and your doctor know what has caused your primary hypogonadism

but you don't say what it is???

You can't just research a medical condition then decide yourself whether or not

you have it based on symptoms and physical manifestations which you seem to

imply by saying " I would say after researching mosiac klinefelters, I am not

it " . I know you said you have had the test after this but testing is not always

100% correct - particularly so if one is XXY mosaic.

As for jelqing or similar penis exercises...I have no interest in damaging my

penis by pulling it out more of it's " socket " or rupturing blood vessels and

therefore jeopardising my ability to get and maintain erections.

I read one of your earlier posts about gaining something like 1.5 inches in

length and something else in girth over few months - complete and utter bullshit

if you ask me but maybe by deluding your ownself you come to believe it. Besides

I would rather have more girth than length and don't tell me by squeezing my

penis over and over so it swells up that this is the way to gain some permanent

girth LOL.

The only way to gain an increase in one's penis is to take part of the penis

that is inside the body out through surgery or if your an idiot to rip/stretch

it out by hand or hanging a weight to it. Surgical procedures can also add girth

by injecting fat into the penis - again why?

Only other way for it to grow is naturally at a cellular level which is

dependent on so many things...androgen receptor levels, CAG repeat length,

hormone levels (DHT in particular), growth hormone etc and consequently age.

NOTHING ELSE (today at least) can increase your penis size so please don't

insult my intelligence by claiming like so many stupid websites that you've

added a few inches to your penis by some stupid jelqing techniques and even if

you did miraculously manage to do this you've no doubt damaged your penis in the

process.

>

> thanks for remembering about my situation. I would say after

researching mosiac klinefelters, I am not it. I cried when the test came back I

wasn't klinefelters the first place I came in to understand what was wrong with

me.

>

> Puberty is long gone. Technology is not there where the body can go back in

time or 'be tricked' into thinking puberty must start again.

>

>  I am not going to go to my doctor and ask for a bunch of more tests which

will prove what?  Seriously, what?  I know what happened to me and so does my 

doctor. At my age and my need to simply move forward from the emotional and

psychical pain being primary has caused, the best thing for me would be to

continue on the treatment I am taking. Continue to take bi-monthly or 3 months

in between on blood work to see if my T level, FSH, E2 levels are normal on

medication.

>

> The penis issue which has lower my life expectation, well I am doing my best

every day to do something about it. I suggest you do the same.

>

> All the research is not going to make an adult go through puberty again.

>

> No testing cells for me. No more added tests unless I find it useful. As I get

older I have to worry about more things which I will.

>

> If you need help with PE let me know, if not good luck in life.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I see why we wouldn't get along online and outside of it. You are so quick

to defend and then put forth your own will and objectives. Life is too long to

read your defensive attitude. Don't do anything other than research the fact

your penis is small and your life may suck. I have made modest gains with PE so

far. I am moving forward soon away from this site and being sadden over what

hypo, has caused me.

At least I don't have to read your angry filled undertones of what's wrong in

your life any more....

If you want help I suggest you find a qualified psychotherapist that can help

you through these emotional difficulties you are having. Learn to be content

with who you are as well. If you are overweight, lose weight like I did and

still doing. excerise your penis, like other males are doing if this is a major

issue in your life. Pay for expensive add-ons if you can afford it. I cannot so

manual is ideal for now.

Instead of being defensive and semi attacking me, try to follow my route... I am

simply trying to move forward in a healthy mental and psychical attitude and

body  with primary hypo., rather than allow it to control me and make me very

sadden.

Later, I am not going to read any more posts from you. Good luck once again.

[Guest guest]

UU1845 - Yet another outrageous email from you with more accusations. Now I need

a psychotherapist LOL

At least if your not going to read anymore of my posts I won't have to read

anymore wild accusations from you and downright offensive comments. I seem to

remember others having the same discussion with you....mmm...

>

> I see why we wouldn't get along online and outside of it. You are so

quick to defend and then put forth your own will and objectives. Life is too

long to read your defensive attitude. Don't do anything other than research the

fact your penis is small and your life may suck. I have made modest gains with

PE so far. I am moving forward soon away from this site and being sadden over

what hypo, has caused me.

>

> At least I don't have to read your angry filled undertones of what's wrong in

your life any more....

>

> If you want help I suggest you find a qualified psychotherapist that can help

you through these emotional difficulties you are having. Learn to be content

with who you are as well. If you are overweight, lose weight like I did and

still doing. excerise your penis, like other males are doing if this is a major

issue in your life. Pay for expensive add-ons if you can afford it. I cannot so

manual is ideal for now.

>

> Instead of being defensive and semi attacking me, try to follow my route... I

am simply trying to move forward in a healthy mental and psychical attitude and

body  with primary hypo., rather than allow it to control me and make me very

sadden.

>

> Later, I am not going to read any more posts from you. Good luck once again.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> thanks for remembering about my situation. I would say after

researching mosiac klinefelters, I am not it. I cried when the test came back I

wasn't klinefelters the first place I came in to understand what was wrong with

me.

<snip>

Many times the blood test for K Mosiac comes back negative. If you have the

symptons assume you are Mosiac since it can not be cured or reversed.

Do your T injections to get thr T up & 1/2 Arimidex 3 time a week to keep the E2

down. If you have boobs since puberty, You may have to take DIM also since your

testicles are probably making E2 also.

Been there, done that.

[Guest guest]

>

> I've read a number of posts of late on different boards where few guys are

experiencing penile shrinkage on TRT (seems to be injections mostly)

>

>

> I know this happens with body builders taking steroids but would not expect it

to happen in TRT since I thought the only way this happens is if one is taking

supraphysiological levels of testosterone which is converting to high amounts of

estradiol.

>

> Would lower e2 cause penile shrinkage just as high amounts seem to do? or is

e2 not the only culprit in causing shrinkage?

>

> Anyone experienced this? and correct it through adjusting dosages?

>

>

> Also some people CLAIM penile growth with testosterone (mostly girth) - this

seems feasible through high levels of DHT but very unlikely if the person has

gone through puberty - but androgen receptors don't disappear completely after

puberty I don't think so maybe it's possible. It's also well known DHT cream

applied to the penis in prepubertal boys increases the penis dramatically but no

studies in men.

>

>

> Anyone have higher levels of DHT whilst on TRT and experienced any growth

(whether its length or width)?

>

My shrinkage occurred before I went on TRT. That's when I started noticing a

problem. My nocturnal erections ceased and my penis started to invert which it

never did before. I have been on TRT (injections) for 6 months and nothing has

changed related to shrinkage or nocturnal erections. Even though my T levels

are high now (serum, free, bioavailable) none of my symptoms have gone away.

Very frustrating.

[Guest guest]

You need to check your Estradiol E2 levels if high this is whats doing this to

you. Get the lab test at quest labs the sensitive test for men with the range

of 13 to 54 pg/ml the other labs are for women. If your high go on Arimidex to

get this down if your levels are very high over 50 do .5 mgs every other day if

under 50 do .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1 mg pill ever 2 to 3 days. You can tell your

at the sweet spot when your night time and morning wood comes back. The best

level for most men is 20 pg/ml if on arimidex and you wood comes back and then

later stops your E2 is going down to low so stop the arimidex until your wood

comes back that day go back on it but do less. Between my wood and labs I keep

my night time and morning wood every night. Later doing this your libido will

come back up if nothing else is wrong or you meds are not doing this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: noonanjg <jgnoonan@...>

> Subject: Re: TRT & penile shrinkage

>

> Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 8:57 PM

>

> >

> > I've read a number of posts of late on different

> boards where few guys are experiencing penile shrinkage on

> TRT (seems to be injections mostly)

> >

> >

> > I know this happens with body builders taking steroids

> but would not expect it to happen in TRT since I thought the

> only way this happens is if one is taking supraphysiological

> levels of testosterone which is converting to high amounts

> of estradiol.

> >

> > Would lower e2 cause penile shrinkage just as high

> amounts seem to do? or is e2 not the only culprit in causing

> shrinkage?

> >

> > Anyone experienced this? and correct it through

> adjusting dosages?

> >

> >

> > Also some people CLAIM penile growth with testosterone

> (mostly girth) - this seems feasible through high levels of

> DHT but very unlikely if the person has gone through puberty

> - but androgen receptors don't disappear completely after

> puberty I don't think so maybe it's possible. It's also well

> known DHT cream applied to the penis in prepubertal boys

> increases the penis dramatically but no studies in men.

> >

> >

> > Anyone have higher levels of DHT whilst on TRT and

> experienced any growth (whether its length or width)?

> >

>

> My shrinkage occurred before I went on TRT.  That's

> when I started noticing a problem.  My nocturnal

> erections ceased and my penis started to invert which it

> never did before.  I have been on TRT (injections) for

> 6 months and nothing has changed related to shrinkage or

> nocturnal erections.  Even though my T levels are high

> now (serum, free, bioavailable) none of my symptoms have

> gone away.  Very frustrating.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>