Re: Go off of Testosterone Cream - Jeff??

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi all,

> My dh has been trying a trial of test. cream. It ended up converting

> to estrogen. No labs, but he got night sweats and lost the effects of

> the cream in a week or two, even after raising once.

>

>

> Thanks, SC

>

Arimidex is an aromatase inhibitor. It will slow down the process

conversion of testosterone to estrogen.

It's an expensive drug with a patent by Astra-Zenica. It's legally

made in India for a much cheaper price. I get my online from

alldaychemist dot com. Even with the postage from Dehli India it's

fairly cheap.

Injections of testosterone are much more effective than creams.

[Guest guest]

It's useful to track with labs just in case, as the symptoms of too

much estrogen/estradiol can overlap with the problems caused by too

little estrogen. It's best to save subjective assessment to determine

how much one needs after one has gotten dialed in & has labs recording

what levels of different hormones produced that feeling. With that

said, night sweats seem more likely due to high estrogen than low

estrogen.

Depending on who you ask, men produce between 6-11 mg testosterone per

day, totaling 42-75 mg testosterone per week. 100 mg testosterone

cypionate (Depo T) gives about 70 mg actual testosterone.

Unfortunately, after a certain duration (3-5 weeks or so) of

testosterone replacement, one's natural production shuts down such

that even meager amounts (like 37 mg) would keep natural production

suppressed rather than supplementing it. How long has your husband

been on Test cream?

Shots might be a good option due to their different delivery method &

different effects on other hormones that depend on testosterone (DHT,

estradiol, etc.). One can opt for more frequent (twice a week),

smaller injections with smaller needles & minimize conversion to

estradiol.

Didn't mean to preach but thought the information might help.

~Xian

>

> Hi all,

> My dh has been trying a trial of test. cream. It ended up converting

> to estrogen. No labs, but he got night sweats and lost the effects of

> the cream in a week or two, even after raising once.

>

> He started the DIM that Phil suggested. But, made the mistake of

> stopping the nettle root. Things went downhill. Since he wasn't

> feeling better with the test. cream, he reduced from 75 mg. to 37.5

> mg. He didn't feel much different on the lower dose.

>

> He added the nettle root back along with the DIM. He has lost 8 lbs.

> from his middle and says he is feeling better. His testostones labs

> were in range, but low before he started all of this. His saliva labs

> for estrogen were 2-3 times what they should have been.

>

> Is there a chance that he could go off of the cream, and with lowering

> the estrogen, he will be OK? He is trying to keep getting labs to a

> minimum, want to test after going off of cream to see how it all is.

> Isn't 37.5 mg. really low, wouldn't he produce more than that on his

> own? Or is this low enough to supplement his production?

>

> Thanks, SC

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Xian!

He has been on Test. cream since September, the last 3-4 wks. only on

the 37.5.

Didn't address the estrogen until after cream was started.

Just wondering if we went in the wrong order, maybe just getting the

estrogen lowered was all that he needed. His serum counts were in

range, on the lower end, even with the higher estrogen. Wonder what

they would be without all of the excess estrogen, and would the counts

come up enough so he wouldn't need to supplement test.

Do you know if the body starts producing again if you stop supplementing?

His Doc isn't even testing estrogen, just giving the script for test.

so we are part way on our own...

Thanks again,

SC

> >

> > Hi all,

> > My dh has been trying a trial of test. cream. It ended up converting

> > to estrogen. No labs, but he got night sweats and lost the effects of

> > the cream in a week or two, even after raising once.

> >

> > He started the DIM that Phil suggested. But, made the mistake of

> > stopping the nettle root. Things went downhill. Since he wasn't

> > feeling better with the test. cream, he reduced from 75 mg. to 37.5

> > mg. He didn't feel much different on the lower dose.

> >

> > He added the nettle root back along with the DIM. He has lost 8 lbs.

> > from his middle and says he is feeling better. His testostones labs

> > were in range, but low before he started all of this. His saliva labs

> > for estrogen were 2-3 times what they should have been.

> >

> > Is there a chance that he could go off of the cream, and with lowering

> > the estrogen, he will be OK? He is trying to keep getting labs to a

> > minimum, want to test after going off of cream to see how it all is.

> > Isn't 37.5 mg. really low, wouldn't he produce more than that on his

> > own? Or is this low enough to supplement his production?

> >

> > Thanks, SC

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info, Randy. If he needs more than the natural

supplements, this will be very useful!

SC

>

>

> Arimidex is an aromatase inhibitor. It will slow down the process

> conversion of testosterone to estrogen.

>

> It's an expensive drug with a patent by Astra-Zenica. It's legally

> made in India for a much cheaper price. I get my online from

> alldaychemist dot com. Even with the postage from Dehli India it's

> fairly cheap.

>

> Injections of testosterone are much more effective than creams.

>

[Guest guest]

Glad the info helped.

It's hard to know what would have been best- we simply learn as we go

along. As you've found, most docs don't/won't test estrogen in men.

This is unfortunate, since lowering E2/estradiol can raise

testosterone. High estrogen can inactivate the effect of T, as well

as cause T to be lower than what it should be. It's worthwhile to

optimize estradiol to get a " true " reading of how much testosterone a

man needs to feel well.

A mathematical formula won't suffice, but for some men, it seems

reducing 10 pg/mL estradiol when there is excess (above 30 or 35

pg/mL) may elevate total testosterone a good 100 ng/dL.

It's possible that your husband might do well simply blocking

estrogen- could you post his lab results?

Men can recover natural T production after TRT, but it may take a

while, varying according to each individual & the length of time on

TRT. Generally, natural T production will be reduced significantly,

then hover somewhat below pre-treatment levels for a while. There are

medications to help the process along, such as Clomid (which,

interestingly, selectively " blocks " other estrogens). HCG can help

too, but it tends to keep the pituitary suppressed such that

discontinuing HCG will simply perpetuate the low T.

Regarding testosterone itself, docs who excel in TRT aim to keep a man

within the upper one third of the reference range (which varies

depending on the lab)- above 650 & below 1000 ng/dL total testosterone

is a good range to shoot for. If 37 mg Test cream gets him levels

like this, great. Often, it does not.

Have a great weekend.

~Xian

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > > My dh has been trying a trial of test. cream. It ended up

converting

> > > to estrogen. No labs, but he got night sweats and lost the

effects of

> > > the cream in a week or two, even after raising once.

> > >

> > > He started the DIM that Phil suggested. But, made the mistake of

> > > stopping the nettle root. Things went downhill. Since he wasn't

> > > feeling better with the test. cream, he reduced from 75 mg. to 37.5

> > > mg. He didn't feel much different on the lower dose.

> > >

> > > He added the nettle root back along with the DIM. He has lost 8

lbs.

> > > from his middle and says he is feeling better. His testostones labs

> > > were in range, but low before he started all of this. His

saliva labs

> > > for estrogen were 2-3 times what they should have been.

> > >

> > > Is there a chance that he could go off of the cream, and with

lowering

> > > the estrogen, he will be OK? He is trying to keep getting labs to a

> > > minimum, want to test after going off of cream to see how it all

is.

> > > Isn't 37.5 mg. really low, wouldn't he produce more than that on his

> > > own? Or is this low enough to supplement his production?

> > >

> > > Thanks, SC

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks again!

What do you know about Clomid? The good, bad, and ugly...

His test. count before the cream was 441.

SC

> > > >

> > > > Hi all,

> > > > My dh has been trying a trial of test. cream. It ended up

> converting

> > > > to estrogen. No labs, but he got night sweats and lost the

> effects of

> > > > the cream in a week or two, even after raising once.

> > > >

> > > > He started the DIM that Phil suggested. But, made the mistake of

> > > > stopping the nettle root. Things went downhill. Since he wasn't

> > > > feeling better with the test. cream, he reduced from 75 mg. to

37.5

> > > > mg. He didn't feel much different on the lower dose.

> > > >

> > > > He added the nettle root back along with the DIM. He has lost 8

> lbs.

> > > > from his middle and says he is feeling better. His

testostones labs

> > > > were in range, but low before he started all of this. His

> saliva labs

> > > > for estrogen were 2-3 times what they should have been.

> > > >

> > > > Is there a chance that he could go off of the cream, and with

> lowering

> > > > the estrogen, he will be OK? He is trying to keep getting

labs to a

> > > > minimum, want to test after going off of cream to see how it all

> is.

> > > > Isn't 37.5 mg. really low, wouldn't he produce more than that

on his

> > > > own? Or is this low enough to supplement his production?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks, SC

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:00:20 -0000, you wrote:

>Thanks Xian!

>He has been on Test. cream since September, the last 3-4 wks. only on

>the 37.5.

>

>Didn't address the estrogen until after cream was started.

>

>Just wondering if we went in the wrong order, maybe just getting the

>estrogen lowered was all that he needed. His serum counts were in

>range, on the lower end, even with the higher estrogen. Wonder what

>they would be without all of the excess estrogen, and would the counts

>come up enough so he wouldn't need to supplement test.

>

>Do you know if the body starts producing again if you stop supplementing?

>

>His Doc isn't even testing estrogen, just giving the script for test.

>so we are part way on our own...

>

>Thanks again,

Definitely. Studies show you cane get a 200 to 300 point T jump by

reducing E2 in elderly overweight men. (The enzyme that converts T to

E2 is more abundant in fat and high E2 leads to more fat.) Is your

husband somewhat overweight?

[Guest guest]

He has a little around the middle, not really overweight, 6 ft., just

under 200 lbs. He did loose 8 lbs. in the last few weeks with the

combination of DIM and nettle root without any diet changes. Hoping

that the estrogen is under control. He went off of Test. cream

yesterday, and so far, doesn't really notice much difference.

He is 51 y/o. Not elderly overweight. So, could he add at least the

200-300 pts, and maybe more?? That would put him in a good range w/o

supplementation.

He quit taking the nettle root when he started the DIM a little over a

month ago. He really started gaining in the middle after that.

Someone told me to add the nettle root back in, that it really helps

with E2 (and that DIM helps with E1). DIM and nettle root together

really seem to be working for him.

Really hoping that just getting estrogen down will be enough to help him!

Thanks!

SC

> Definitely. Studies show you cane get a 200 to 300 point T jump by

> reducing E2 in elderly overweight men. (The enzyme that converts T to

> E2 is more abundant in fat and high E2 leads to more fat.) Is your

> husband somewhat overweight?

>