Re: My labs this year, low normal free test, low cortisol etc. Update.

October 17, 2009

My doctor started me on compounded testosterone cream about three weeks ago, and

wants to retest after eight weeks.

Since my free test level is " low normal " he only prescribed a very low dose (5mg

test per day) to bump my level up to mid normal.

My question, is this enough to even notice or make any difference at all? My

brother in law is using 20 times this amount. When I retest at the end of

november I'm afraid it will be up ever so slightly (a normal fluctuation) and he

will say it is improving and not increase the dose.

Any ideas or comments?

Thanks, bjesplin

> > > >

> > > > > From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > Subject: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 5:54 PM

> > > > > I've seen a lot of things that say

> > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > like a baby before I started noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > Eventually, after I get my hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > sleep improve? From what I've read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > happens at night.

> > > > >

> > > > > When I started noticing the low T stuff and starting to not

> > > > > sleep, I started using melatonin. It seemed to help

> > > > > somewhat. Then I read that melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > produced is not good for testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > this true?

> > > > >

> > > > > I'd give almost anything for a good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've read that some

> > > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

October 17, 2009

Dr.'s do this thinking they are doing something good but it's not good to do a

low dose your brain sees this in the blood and slows down telling your Testis to

make Testosterone and you can end up lower then you started.

He just is not up on treating this and I can't tell you what to tell him about

this to get him on board. But if you don't feel better on this most will fell

little better because there levels will go up a little on top of there base

levels. But when the brain sees this it will slow down your testis from making

your base amount and all your going to be left with is what the low dose is

doing and this can and in most is lower then they started.

So of your not feeling better call him tell him your not feeling better and that

you want to do labs to be sure you levels came up. If he is a good Dr. he will

do this and see for his self your problem and up your dose.

You can't tell him what I told you it will just anger him. But men with low

Testosterone can't just do a little this shuts down your body. Your go on TRT

at a good dose or don't there is no in between.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: esplinbj <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: My labs this year, low normal free test, low

cortisol etc. Update.

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 11:34 AM

> My doctor started me on compounded

> testosterone cream about three weeks ago, and wants to

> retest after eight weeks.

>

> Since my free test level is " low normal " he only prescribed

> a very low dose (5mg test per day) to bump my level up to

> mid normal.

>

> My question, is this enough to even notice or make any

> difference at all? My brother in law is using 20 times

> this amount. When I retest at the end of november I'm

> afraid it will be up ever so slightly (a normal fluctuation)

> and he will say it is improving and not increase the dose.

>

> Any ideas or comments?

>

> Thanks, bjesplin

>

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > Subject: lack of

> sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009,

> 5:54 PM

> > > > > > I've seen a lot of things that

> say

> > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > like a baby before I started

> noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > Eventually, after I get my

> hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > sleep improve? From what I've

> read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When I started noticing the low T

> stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > sleep, I started using melatonin.

> It seemed to help

> > > > > > somewhat. Then I read that

> melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > produced is not good for

> testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > this true?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'd give almost anything for a

> good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've

> read that some

> > > > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

October 17, 2009

So your thinking would be that at 8 weeks my testosterone will be lower that

when I started. If this happens then it should be easier to get him to up the

dose. Doctors don't want to treat me because I am " normal " . If my level were

to drop " below normal " they would be much more likely to treat me. Of course

the best thing would be to get it to go up without trt, but I don't know how to

make that happen. The past several days I have been having a hard time getting

a good nights sleep and I have been feeling extreme fatigue, tiring easily and

getting out of breath easily. I think my e2 is under control, as I have been

using Arimidex for some time. I just wish I could get my doctor to retest

sooner.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > Subject: lack of

> > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009,

> > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > I've seen a lot of things that

> > say

> > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > like a baby before I started

> > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > Eventually, after I get my

> > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > sleep improve? From what I've

> > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When I started noticing the low T

> > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > sleep, I started using melatonin.

> > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read that

> > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > produced is not good for

> > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'd give almost anything for a

> > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've

> > read that some

> > > > > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

Unless there are other medical conditions that are present. The Dr should start

of with 7.5 -10 grams a day then retest in 2 weeks not 8 weeks. Testing in 8

weeks is rediculous and patient should not suffer that long. 5 grams is a tease

and will shut you down lower then you where before making you feel worse then

when you started. This will also increase e2 when it sits on your skin not

getting absorbed properly. I never would want to have patients wait that long

so 2 weeks will be optimal time to know if they need more or less as well

knowing that e2 is an issue. Labs taken 6 weeks after should recheck for

thyroid and adrenal function to rule out any changes. Was primary vs secondary

ruled out prior before TRT. If not that is common mistake on the endos part

...Good luck calling in because they will just tell them to wait it out like most

do. I have seen people put on 5 grams and told to come back in 3 months.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > Subject: lack of

> > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009,

> > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > I've seen a lot of things that

> > say

> > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > like a baby before I started

> > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > Eventually, after I get my

> > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > sleep improve? From what I've

> > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When I started noticing the low T

> > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > sleep, I started using melatonin.

> > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read that

> > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > produced is not good for

> > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'd give almost anything for a

> > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've

> > read that some

> > > > > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

The point being is that you will know in little as 7-10 days. 8 weeks is insane

and can cause other things to go out of balance as well. One get get ZRT blood

spot to check their own levels after 10 days to see if they are even absorping

it in the first place. The dr needs to rule out adrenals and thyroid function

because this can affect absorption of the gel greatly.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > Subject: lack of

> > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009,

> > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of things that

> > > say

> > > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > like a baby before I started

> > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > Eventually, after I get my

> > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > sleep improve? From what I've

> > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When I started noticing the low T

> > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > sleep, I started using melatonin.

> > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read that

> > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > produced is not good for

> > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything for a

> > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've

> > > read that some

> > > > > > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

Your on TRT a this low dose for 8 weeks and taking arimidex do you have night

time and morning wood on armidex or did you get it back and lose it. You need

to be careful not to go down to low if you got wood this lost it your to low try

stopping the arimidex and see how you do if you get night time and morning wood

back you know you were to low this can take a week to two. I can't tell you

what to do about your Dr and any Dr. you seen that told you you OK because your

not below the normal range is nuts men below 400 are to low. A level of 400 is

that of a man in his 80's this is not normal for your age.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: esplinbj <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: My labs this year, low normal free test, low

cortisol etc. Update.

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 1:09 PM

> So your thinking would be that at 8

> weeks my testosterone will be lower that when I

> started. If this happens then it should be easier to

> get him to up the dose. Doctors don't want to treat me

> because I am " normal " . If my level were to drop " below

> normal " they would be much more likely to treat

> me. Of course the best thing would be to get it to go

> up without trt, but I don't know how to make that

> happen. The past several days I have been having a

> hard time getting a good nights sleep and I have been

> feeling extreme fatigue, tiring easily and getting out of

> breath easily. I think my e2 is under control, as I

> have been using Arimidex for some time. I just wish I

> could get my doctor to retest sooner.

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > Subject:

> lack of

> > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August

> 18, 2009,

> > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> things that

> > > say

> > > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a

> guys

> > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > like a baby before I

> started

> > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > Eventually, after I get

> my

> > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > sleep improve? From what

> I've

> > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When I started noticing

> the low T

> > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > sleep, I started using

> melatonin.

> > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read

> that

> > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > produced is not good

> for

> > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything

> for a

> > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> postmenopause. I've

> > > read that some

> > > > > > > > testosterone might do

> her good.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

Loss of morning wood..does that indicate anything?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

> lack of

> > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August

> 18, 2009,

> > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> things that

> > > say

> > > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a

> guys

> > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > like a baby before I

> started

> > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > Eventually, after I get

> my

> > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > sleep improve? From what

> I've

> > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When I started noticing

> the low T

> > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > sleep, I started using

> melatonin.

> > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read

> that

> > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > produced is not good

> for

> > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything

> for a

> > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> postmenopause. I've

> > > read that some

> > > > > > > > testosterone might do

> her good.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

Well said Hard and this happens all the time Dr.'s only know what the Drug reps

tell them. Same thing with Dr.'s giving men shots of T every 2 to 4 weeks and

making them come into the office for the shots. This is old and dose not work

your given a huge shot that most of it converts into Estradiol and you way up

after the shot only to fall dam low by the next one. This puts you on a roller

coaster ride and the only one that benefits is your Dr. getting you money from

you coming in for this shot.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

> Subject: Re: My labs this year, low normal free test, low

cortisol etc. Update.

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 1:12 PM

> Unless there are other medical

> conditions that are present. The Dr should start of with 7.5

> -10 grams a day then retest in 2 weeks not 8 weeks. Testing

> in 8 weeks is rediculous and patient should not suffer that

> long. 5 grams is a tease and will shut you down lower

> then you where before making you feel worse then when you

> started. This will also increase e2 when it sits on your

> skin not getting absorbed properly. I never would want

> to have patients wait that long so 2 weeks will be optimal

> time to know if they need more or less as well knowing that

> e2 is an issue. Labs taken 6 weeks after should

> recheck for thyroid and adrenal function to rule out any

> changes. Was primary vs secondary ruled out prior before

> TRT. If not that is common mistake on the endos part

> ..Good luck calling in because they will just tell them to

> wait it out like most do. I have seen people put on 5

> grams and told to come back in 3 months.

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > Subject:

> lack of

> > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August

> 18, 2009,

> > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> things that

> > > say

> > > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a

> guys

> > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > like a baby before I

> started

> > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > Eventually, after I get

> my

> > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > sleep improve? From what

> I've

> > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When I started noticing

> the low T

> > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > sleep, I started using

> melatonin.

> > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read

> that

> > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > produced is not good

> for

> > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything

> for a

> > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> postmenopause. I've

> > > read that some

> > > > > > > > testosterone might do

> her good.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

My LH and FSH are not elevated, so I would guess that I am more lilely secondary

than primary.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > Subject: lack of

> > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009,

> > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of things that

> > > say

> > > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > like a baby before I started

> > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > Eventually, after I get my

> > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > sleep improve? From what I've

> > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When I started noticing the low T

> > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > sleep, I started using melatonin.

> > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read that

> > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > produced is not good for

> > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything for a

> > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've

> > > read that some

> > > > > > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

How would one go about getting a blood spot test?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > Subject: lack of

> > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009,

> > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of things that

> > > > say

> > > > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > like a baby before I started

> > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > Eventually, after I get my

> > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > sleep improve? From what I've

> > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When I started noticing the low T

> > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > sleep, I started using melatonin.

> > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read that

> > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > produced is not good for

> > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything for a

> > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've

> > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

http://www.zrtlab.com/

________________________________

From: esplinbj <no_reply >

Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:43:36 PM

Subject: Re: My labs this year, low normal free test, low

cortisol etc. Update.

How would one go about getting a blood spot test?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > > <virtuosa150@ >

> > > > > > > > > Subject: lack of

> > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009,

> > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of things that

> > > > say

> > > > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > like a baby before I started

> > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > Eventually, after I get my

> > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > sleep improve? From what I've

> > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When I started noticing the low T

> > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > sleep, I started using melatonin.

> > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read that

> > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > produced is not good for

> > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything for a

> > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've

> > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > > > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

Yes this can mean your Estradiol levels are to low doing Arimidex how much do

you take here is what I tell men on taking Arimidex and I gage my levels by my

night time and moning wood.

=========================================================================

What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your

to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to

make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on

your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I

went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or

how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low

until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your

night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you

get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you

can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to

cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge

razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your

levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day

after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said

>90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time

and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the

day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could

not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the

Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex

my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we

went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was

on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low

you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels

back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after

playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3

days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down

so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with

lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your

lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down

from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need

..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this

to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading

back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets

me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: esplinbj <no_reply >

> > Subject: Re: My labs this year, low

> normal free test, low cortisol etc. Update.

> >

> > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 1:09 PM

> > So your thinking would be that at 8

> > weeks my testosterone will be lower that when I

> > started. If this happens then it should be easier

> to

> > get him to up the dose. Doctors don't want to treat

> me

> > because I am " normal " . If my level were to drop

> " below

> > normal " they would be much more likely to treat

> > me. Of course the best thing would be to get it to

> go

> > up without trt, but I don't know how to make that

> > happen. The past several days I have been having a

> > hard time getting a good nights sleep and I have been

> > feeling extreme fatigue, tiring easily and getting out

> of

> > breath easily. I think my e2 is under control, as I

> > have been using Arimidex for some time. I just wish

> I

> > could get my doctor to retest sooner.

> >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > Subject:

>

> > lack of

> > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday,

> August

> > 18, 2009,

> > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> > things that

> > > > say

> > > > > > > > > lack of sleep

> lowers a

> > guys

> > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > like a baby before

> I

> > started

> > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > Eventually, after I

> get

> > my

> > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > sleep improve? From

> what

> > I've

> > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When I started

> noticing

> > the low T

> > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > sleep, I started

> using

> > melatonin.

> > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I

> read

> > that

> > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > produced is not

> good

> > for

> > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'd give almost

> anything

> > for a

> > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> > postmenopause. I've

> > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > testosterone might

> do

> > her good.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

October 17, 2009

You can only test this if your not on TRT once you on it even a few day them

levels can fall dam low. If you LH and FSH levels were low before going on T

meds and your Estradiol levels were not to high then I would say you might be

Secondary can you post your labs with the units and ranges for Total and Free T

with LH and FSH with Estradiol.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: esplinbj <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: My labs this year, low normal free test, low

cortisol etc. Update.

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 1:42 PM

> My LH and FSH are not elevated, so I

> would guess that I am more lilely secondary than primary.

>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > Subject:

> lack of

> > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday,

> August 18, 2009,

> > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> things that

> > > > say

> > > > > > > > > lack of sleep

> lowers a guys

> > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > like a baby before

> I started

> > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > Eventually, after I

> get my

> > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > sleep improve? From

> what I've

> > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When I started

> noticing the low T

> > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > sleep, I started

> using melatonin.

> > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I

> read that

> > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > produced is not

> good for

> > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'd give almost

> anything for a

> > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> postmenopause. I've

> > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > testosterone might

> do her good.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

October 17, 2009

As I have said in other posts, I started Arimidex last january because of high

E2 (42) and breast and nipple pain. I have been using it off and on since then

to keep the nipple pain away. I had never really thought about morning wood

until I read about it here a few months back. Thinking back I remember that

after being on arimidex for a while I was getting incredible nightime erections,

very hard every time I woke up durring the night at in the morning. I think I

wasn't getting much in the way of morning wood before I started taking Arimidex,

but I didn't really pay attention to it. I have never lost my morning wood

since being on Arimidex. I seem to have various pains when my e2 gets too low

so I hold off for a few extra days.

My total testosterone has been in the 470-570 rang lately, which doesn't get

doctors excited. It is my free testosterone at the very bottom of the range

that has me concerned. Being on arimidex has raised my free test some.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > Subject:

> > lack of

> > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August

> > 18, 2009,

> > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> > things that

> > > > say

> > > > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a

> > guys

> > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > like a baby before I

> > started

> > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > Eventually, after I get

> > my

> > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > sleep improve? From what

> > I've

> > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When I started noticing

> > the low T

> > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > sleep, I started using

> > melatonin.

> > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read

> > that

> > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > produced is not good

> > for

> > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything

> > for a

> > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> > postmenopause. I've

> > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > testosterone might do

> > her good.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

I posted all my labs at my first post on this supject on Aug 20th.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > Subject:

> > lack of

> > > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday,

> > August 18, 2009,

> > > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> > things that

> > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > lack of sleep

> > lowers a guys

> > > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > > like a baby before

> > I started

> > > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > Eventually, after I

> > get my

> > > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > > sleep improve? From

> > what I've

> > > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When I started

> > noticing the low T

> > > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > > sleep, I started

> > using melatonin.

> > > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I

> > read that

> > > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > > produced is not

> > good for

> > > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I'd give almost

> > anything for a

> > > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> > postmenopause. I've

> > > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > > testosterone might

> > do her good.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > Links

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

October 17, 2009

As I said, the past few days I haven't been sleeping well, and have had extreme

fatigue. Are these symptoms of my testosterone falling?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > Subject: lack of

> > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009,

> > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of things that

> > > say

> > > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > like a baby before I started

> > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > Eventually, after I get my

> > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > sleep improve? From what I've

> > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When I started noticing the low T

> > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > sleep, I started using melatonin.

> > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read that

> > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > produced is not good for

> > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything for a

> > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've

> > > read that some

> > > > > > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

When using testosterone cream, when is the best time to apply it, morning,

night, or split morning and night?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > Subject: lack of

> > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009,

> > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of things that

> > > > say

> > > > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > like a baby before I started

> > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > Eventually, after I get my

> > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > sleep improve? From what I've

> > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When I started noticing the low T

> > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > sleep, I started using melatonin.

> > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read that

> > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > produced is not good for

> > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything for a

> > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've

> > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

OK but I don't have time to go back and find this it would help if you post this

with or at that thread I have been at this 7 and a half hrs now today some days

I am at this 12 hrs. IF you can cut and post a link so I can go to it.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: esplinbj <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: My labs this year, low normal free test, low

cortisol etc. Update.

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:00 PM

> I posted all my labs at my first post

> on this supject on Aug 20th.

>

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > From:

> virtuosa150

> > > > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > > Subject:

> > > lack of

> > > > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> Tuesday,

> > > August 18, 2009,

> > > > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > I've seen

> a lot of

> > > things that

> > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > lack of

> sleep

> > > lowers a guys

> > > > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > > > like a

> baby before

> > > I started

> > > > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> Eventually, after I

> > > get my

> > > > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > > > sleep

> improve? From

> > > what I've

> > > > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > > > happens

> at night.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When I

> started

> > > noticing the low T

> > > > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > > > sleep, I

> started

> > > using melatonin.

> > > > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > > somewhat.

> Then I

> > > read that

> > > > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > > > produced

> is not

> > > good for

> > > > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > > > this

> true?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I'd give

> almost

> > > anything for a

> > > > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > > > my wife,

> she's

> > > postmenopause. I've

> > > > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > > >

> testosterone might

> > > do her good.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > > >

> Groups

> > > Links

> > > > > > > > > > >

> mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

October 17, 2009

Okay, sorry, here they are.

My labs this year, low normal free test, low cortisol etc.

In january 2009 my labs were as follows. These were done at Quest Diognostics.

Total testosterone 805 range 250-1100

free testosterone 56.2 range 46-224

bioavailable testosterone 127.8 range 110-575

SHBG 72 range 9-45

serum albumin 5 range 3.6-5.1

estradiol 41 range 13-54

FHS 2.3 range 1.6-8.0

LH 2.4 range 1.5-9.3

prolactin 5.4 range 2.0-18.0

THS 1.41 range .34-4.82

ferritin 15 range 20-204 (low from giving blood)

PSA 0.57 range 0-2.5

After this my doctor put me on Arimidex. After two months on arimidex in march

my labs were as follows. These were done at a local lab, and I can't say how

accurate they are.

total testosterone 578 range 240-950

free testosterone 93 range 47-244

bioavailable testosterone 218 130-680

estradiol 27 range 0-56

FHS 2.8 no reference

free T4 1.6 range 0.8-1.9

free T3 3.2 range 1.8-4.8

THS 1.57 range 0.30-3.00

cortisol(morning)18.2 no range

IGF-1 131 no range

At this point I stopped taking arimidex. One month later in april at the same

lab as above my labs were as follows.

total testosterone 478 range 240-950

free testosterone 73 range 47-244

bioavailable testosterone 171 range 130-680

FHS 2.32 no range

estradiol 26 range 0-56

fasting glucose 96 range 74-100

triglycerides 58 range 30-150

insulin(morning fasting)<2.0 range 6.0-27

This doctor, an endo(diabetes specialist) said my fasting insulin was basically

undectable, but that this in okay.

Saliva test done April 29 2009

cortisol, morning 15 range 13-24

cortisol, noon 2 range 5-10

cortisol, afternoon 1 range 3-8

cortisol, night 7 range 1-4

Cortisol burden 25 range 23-42

DHEA 1 range 3-10

This is a lot of info, but maybe someone can make something of it.

The reason for having any tests done in the first place was that I was having

breast and nipple pain. Ohter symptoms, mild ED, anxiety, lack of energy, can't

put on muscle despite lifting weights daily. Getting my E2 down took care of

the breast pain, but other symptoms have remained the same.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > From:

> > virtuosa150

> > > > > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject:

> > > > lack of

> > > > > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > Tuesday,

> > > > August 18, 2009,

> > > > > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > I've seen

> > a lot of

> > > > things that

> > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > > lack of

> > sleep

> > > > lowers a guys

> > > > > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > > > > like a

> > baby before

> > > > I started

> > > > > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Eventually, after I

> > > > get my

> > > > > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > > > > sleep

> > improve? From

> > > > what I've

> > > > > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > > > > happens

> > at night.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > When I

> > started

> > > > noticing the low T

> > > > > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > > > > sleep, I

> > started

> > > > using melatonin.

> > > > > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > > > somewhat.

> > Then I

> > > > read that

> > > > > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > > > > produced

> > is not

> > > > good for

> > > > > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > > > > this

> > true?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I'd give

> > almost

> > > > anything for a

> > > > > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > > > > my wife,

> > she's

> > > > postmenopause. I've

> > > > > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > testosterone might

> > > > do her good.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Groups

> > > > Links

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

Then you need more testosterone you need your levels up onto the upper 1/3 of

your labs range keeping your Estradiol levels down to about 20 pg/ml it's a good

thing you have wood this is a good gage your doing better.

I eat up the T as fast as I use it gels did nothing for me I had low levels on

them. But I have a thyroid problem and this makes my skin thicker and gels and

creams don't get through my skin. I do shots and do a lot so to keep my

Estradiol levels down I do my shots every 3 days 80 mgs and to keep my testis

working I add HCG doing 400 IU' the 2 days each in between my T shots. Doing

this keep my Estradiol levels down and not being on gels my DHT is down it was

way up on gels to 4 x's above the top of the range. Gels will do this in time

so keep an eye on your DHT levels.

Most men do very good on 100 mgs per week doing a shot and they keep there

testis from getting small by adding in 250 IU's of HCG the 2 days each before

there next T shot. I keep my total T levels up between 750 to 850 doing this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: esplinbj <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: My labs this year, low normal free test, low

cortisol etc. Update.

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 1:53 PM

> As I have said in other posts, I

> started Arimidex last january because of high E2 (42) and

> breast and nipple pain. I have been using it off and

> on since then to keep the nipple pain away. I had

> never really thought about morning wood until I read about

> it here a few months back. Thinking back I remember

> that after being on arimidex for a while I was getting

> incredible nightime erections, very hard every time I woke

> up durring the night at in the morning. I think I

> wasn't getting much in the way of morning wood before I

> started taking Arimidex, but I didn't really pay attention

> to it. I have never lost my morning wood since being

> on Arimidex. I seem to have various pains when my e2

> gets too low so I hold off for a few extra days.

>

> My total testosterone has been in the 470-570 rang lately,

> which doesn't get doctors excited. It is my free

> testosterone at the very bottom of the range that has me

> concerned. Being on arimidex has raised my free test

> some.

>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > From:

> virtuosa150

> > > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > Subject:

>

> > > lack of

> > > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday,

> August

> > > 18, 2009,

> > > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > > I've seen a

> lot of

> > > things that

> > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > lack of sleep

> lowers a

> > > guys

> > > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > > like a baby

> before I

> > > started

> > > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > Eventually,

> after I get

> > > my

> > > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > > sleep improve?

> From what

> > > I've

> > > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > > happens at

> night.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When I started

> noticing

> > > the low T

> > > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > > sleep, I

> started using

> > > melatonin.

> > > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then

> I read

> > > that

> > > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > > produced is

> not good

> > > for

> > > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I'd give

> almost anything

> > > for a

> > > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > > my wife,

> she's

> > > postmenopause. I've

> > > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > > testosterone

> might do

> > > her good.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > > >

> mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

October 17, 2009

Yes this can do this to your sleep and if your Estradiol levels are way up this

adds to it.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: esplinbj <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: My labs this year, low normal free test, low

cortisol etc. Update.

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:27 PM

> As I said, the past few days I

> haven't been sleeping well, and have had extreme

> fatigue. Are these symptoms of my testosterone

> falling?

>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > Subject:

> lack of

> > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday,

> August 18, 2009,

> > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> things that

> > > > say

> > > > > > > > > lack of sleep

> lowers a guys

> > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > like a baby before

> I started

> > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > Eventually, after I

> get my

> > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > sleep improve? From

> what I've

> > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When I started

> noticing the low T

> > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > sleep, I started

> using melatonin.

> > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I

> read that

> > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > produced is not

> good for

> > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'd give almost

> anything for a

> > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> postmenopause. I've

> > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > testosterone might

> do her good.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

October 17, 2009

What is your free, and or bioavailable testosterone level? Most doctors don't

seem to care about this level, which is really the most important.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > From:

> > virtuosa150

> > > > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > > Subject:

> >

> > > > lack of

> > > > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday,

> > August

> > > > 18, 2009,

> > > > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > I've seen a

> > lot of

> > > > things that

> > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > lack of sleep

> > lowers a

> > > > guys

> > > > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > > > like a baby

> > before I

> > > > started

> > > > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > > Eventually,

> > after I get

> > > > my

> > > > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > > > sleep improve?

> > From what

> > > > I've

> > > > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > > > happens at

> > night.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When I started

> > noticing

> > > > the low T

> > > > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > > > sleep, I

> > started using

> > > > melatonin.

> > > > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then

> > I read

> > > > that

> > > > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > > > produced is

> > not good

> > > > for

> > > > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I'd give

> > almost anything

> > > > for a

> > > > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > > > my wife,

> > she's

> > > > postmenopause. I've

> > > > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > > > testosterone

> > might do

> > > > her good.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > Links

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

October 17, 2009

Ok here goes,

Your Jan 09 test is good for Total T but your Free and Bio are low with very

high SHBG at 72. This binds up your free and bio T levels. and your Estradiol is

high 41 just getting into the levels that cause big problems.

Your Ferritin is very low you need to be on Iron pills doing a good 200 mgs of

Elemental Iron. I started on this taking one pill morning and dinner with Vit.

C.

http://www.walgreens.com/store/store/product/product_details.jsp?id=prod1194792

http://www.myvitanet.com/supbiocbuf36.html

I felt so dam much better getting my levels up but you need to keep doing labs

on Iron pills stopping them a week before doing labs so you don't get high

untrue readings. I do the following labs. Every 8 weeks.

Estradiol sensitive Code #4021

Testosterone, Free, Bioavailable & Total LC/MS/MS Code # 14966X.

Homocysteine (Caridioviasular) Code #31789X.

Vit.D, 25-Hydroxy LC/MS/MS Code #17306X.

TSH

Free T4

Free T3

Total T3

Total T4

RT3

Total Iron

Iron Binding Capacity

Iron % Saturation

Ferritin

B-12

On your next set of labs you used a diff. lab so we have no idea what happened

to your levels on the Arimidex but you Estradiol came down so your Free and Bio

is up.

Then when you stopped Arimidex labs went down with your Estradiol still OK. I

wish your LH and FSH was tested here so we could tell if you have a Pituitary

Problem and I think you do Testosterone levels don't jump around like this

unless you did one test in the morning and the next one at dinner time or later

mens levels go down by bedtime not on T meds. Get an MRI done on your Pituitary

or do better labs.

Your Saliva test tells me you have Adreanl problems they are not making

Cortisol. You look to me to be in the later stages of this I am betting you

don't sleep good at nigh because your levels are to high. You look to be at

stage 4 read this link.

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%201%20.html

DHEA takes a high when you have low Cortisol levels and so dose Thyroid do this

morning temp test to see if your Thyroid is low.

http://drbate.com/Ref/thyroid.html

When and if you treat this later on your Aldosterone levels might show low this

is hidden until your Cortisol levels are treated this it shows up as a problem.

http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/aldosterone/test.html

I am Hypopituitary and have all them problems so I have been a mod at STTM

forums helping people with them problems until the site got so big we mods could

not keep up and they shut down the forums. I am still helping men at this forum

on them problems.

Most of the Mods come to this forum when they closed the forums at STTM site.

Here is a FAQ's about Adreanls and how to treat this problem.

This should give you a good idea about this problem most Endo's are not good at

treating this.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=256

I know this is a lot take you time and if you have more questions just ask and

Hardasnails and Dr. O are up on them problems.

You are lucky you found us it took me 23 yrs to figure this all out.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: esplinbj <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: My labs this year, low normal free test, low

cortisol etc. Update.

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:44 PM

> Okay, sorry, here they are.

>

> My labs this year, low normal free test, low cortisol etc.

>

> In january 2009 my labs were as follows. These were done at

> Quest Diognostics.

>

> Total testosterone 805 range 250-1100

> free testosterone 56.2 range 46-224

> bioavailable testosterone 127.8 range 110-575

> SHBG 72 range 9-45

> serum albumin 5 range 3.6-5.1

> estradiol 41 range 13-54

> FHS 2.3 range 1.6-8.0

> LH 2.4 range 1.5-9.3

> prolactin 5.4 range 2.0-18.0

> THS 1.41 range .34-4.82

> ferritin 15 range 20-204 (low from giving blood)

> PSA 0.57 range 0-2.5

>

> After this my doctor put me on Arimidex. After two months

> on arimidex in march

> my labs were as follows. These were done at a local lab,

> and I can't say how

> accurate they are.

>

> total testosterone 578 range 240-950

> free testosterone 93 range 47-244

> bioavailable testosterone 218 130-680

> estradiol 27 range 0-56

> FHS 2.8 no reference

> free T4 1.6 range 0.8-1.9

> free T3 3.2 range 1.8-4.8

> THS 1.57 range 0.30-3.00

> cortisol(morning)18.2 no range

> IGF-1 131 no range

>

> At this point I stopped taking arimidex. One month later in

> april at the same

> lab as above my labs were as follows.

>

> total testosterone 478 range 240-950

> free testosterone 73 range 47-244

> bioavailable testosterone 171 range 130-680

> FHS 2.32 no range

> estradiol 26 range 0-56

> fasting glucose 96 range 74-100

> triglycerides 58 range 30-150

> insulin(morning fasting)<2.0 range 6.0-27

>

> This doctor, an endo(diabetes specialist) said my fasting

> insulin was basically

> undectable, but that this in okay.

>

> Saliva test done April 29 2009

>

> cortisol, morning 15 range 13-24

> cortisol, noon 2 range 5-10

> cortisol, afternoon 1 range 3-8

> cortisol, night 7 range 1-4

> Cortisol burden 25 range 23-42

> DHEA 1 range 3-10

>

> This is a lot of info, but maybe someone can make something

> of it.

>

> The reason for having any tests done in the first place was

> that I was having

> breast and nipple pain. Ohter symptoms, mild ED, anxiety,

> lack of energy, can't

> put on muscle despite lifting weights daily. Getting my E2

> down took care of

> the breast pain, but other symptoms have remained the

> same.

>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> From:

> > > virtuosa150

> > > > > > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Subject:

> > > > > lack of

> > > > > > > > sleep or low T, which

> came first

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Date:

> > > Tuesday,

> > > > > August 18, 2009,

> > > > > > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> I've seen

> > > a lot of

> > > > > things that

> > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> lack of

> > > sleep

> > > > > lowers a guys

> > > > > > > > testosterone. I used to

> sleep

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> like a

> > > baby before

> > > > > I started

> > > > > > > > noticing the low T

> symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > Eventually, after I

> > > > > get my

> > > > > > > > hormones squared away,

> will my

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> sleep

> > > improve? From

> > > > > what I've

> > > > > > > > read, complex hormonal

> stuff

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> happens

> > > at night.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> When I

> > > started

> > > > > noticing the low T

> > > > > > > > stuff and starting to

> not

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> sleep, I

> > > started

> > > > > using melatonin.

> > > > > > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> somewhat.

> > > Then I

> > > > > read that

> > > > > > > > melatonin being a

> hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> produced

> > > is not

> > > > > good for

> > > > > > > > testosterone in a high

> amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> this

> > > true?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> I'd give

> > > almost

> > > > > anything for a

> > > > > > > > good nights sleep. So

> would

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> my wife,

> > > she's

> > > > > postmenopause. I've

> > > > > > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > testosterone might

> > > > > do her good.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > Groups

> > > > > Links

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

October 17, 2009

Morning is best your normal levels are highest in the morning but some men poop

out by dinner time and find they feel better doing it 2x's a day. IF you do it

2x's a day and find you can't sleep this is way your levels are keeping from

sleeping I could never do gels or creams later in the day it kept me up I could

not sleep.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: esplinbj <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: My labs this year, low normal free test, low

cortisol etc. Update.

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:40 PM

>

> When using testosterone cream, when is the best time to

> apply it, morning, night, or split morning and night?

>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > From:

> virtuosa150

> > > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > Subject:

> lack of

> > > > > sleep or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday,

> August 18, 2009,

> > > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > > I've seen a

> lot of things that

> > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > lack of sleep

> lowers a guys

> > > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > > like a baby

> before I started

> > > > > noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > Eventually,

> after I get my

> > > > > hormones squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > > sleep improve?

> From what I've

> > > > > read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > > happens at

> night.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When I started

> noticing the low T

> > > > > stuff and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > > sleep, I

> started using melatonin.

> > > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then

> I read that

> > > > > melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > > produced is

> not good for

> > > > > testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I'd give

> almost anything for a

> > > > > good nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> postmenopause. I've

> > > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > > testosterone

> might do her good.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > > >

> mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

October 17, 2009

Thanks for all the information. My ferritin was low due to giving blood every

two months for some time. I have had high iron in the past, and give blood to

keep it down. I let it get too low, but I store iron quickly, so I think my

level will come back on it's own. I haven't given blood for about six months

and I will have my ferritin rechecked in a few more months and I think it will

be more normal.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > From:

> > > > virtuosa150

> > > > > > > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Subject:

> > > > > > lack of

> > > > > > > > > sleep or low T, which

> > came first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Date:

> > > > Tuesday,

> > > > > > August 18, 2009,

> > > > > > > > > 5:54 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > I've seen

> > > > a lot of

> > > > > > things that

> > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > lack of

> > > > sleep

> > > > > > lowers a guys

> > > > > > > > > testosterone. I used to

> > sleep

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > like a

> > > > baby before

> > > > > > I started

> > > > > > > > > noticing the low T

> > symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > Eventually, after I

> > > > > > get my

> > > > > > > > > hormones squared away,

> > will my

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > sleep

> > > > improve? From

> > > > > > what I've

> > > > > > > > > read, complex hormonal

> > stuff

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > happens

> > > > at night.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > When I

> > > > started

> > > > > > noticing the low T

> > > > > > > > > stuff and starting to

> > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > sleep, I

> > > > started

> > > > > > using melatonin.

> > > > > > > > > It seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > somewhat.

> > > > Then I

> > > > > > read that

> > > > > > > > > melatonin being a

> > hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > produced

> > > > is not

> > > > > > good for

> > > > > > > > > testosterone in a high

> > amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > this

> > > > true?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > I'd give

> > > > almost

> > > > > > anything for a

> > > > > > > > > good nights sleep. So

> > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > my wife,

> > > > she's

> > > > > > postmenopause. I've

> > > > > > > > > read that some

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

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> > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

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> > > > Groups

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> > > > mailto: -fullfeatured

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> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

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Re: My labs this year, low normal free test, low cortisol etc. Update.

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