Re: Doc says I have 'idiopathic hypogonadism' - please help / advise

[Guest guest]

f you had sex before the draw that could also answer the reason for elevated

prolactin.

Elevated prolactin is usually sign of low tissue response from the thyroid, zinc

deficeincy, b-6.

I would also have an evaluation with adrenal salvia profile done to verify how

your cortisol are effected during the day. The guy also did the wrong estrodial

essay as well because most likely that is for a women not a man.

I would start with proper evaluation of adrenals to see if you are able to see

if you are getting a tissue response from the thyroid itself. Then I would have

a total t4 done with reverse t3, ft3,TPO,TGAB to rule out hashimotos and other

thyroid issues. This dr missed half the boat when it comes to proper evaluation

of things. Your shbg is really high resulting in decreased bio T which is making

your symptoms of low testoseteron worse then what it appears. I would look to

see if you are primary or secondary with a clomid challenge to see if you body

will respond to the signal. If it does then proper nutritional support (good EFA

ratio) and giving the building block it needs to help hormone production. While

the back filling is going on you can do the clomid to retrain the HTPA to start

sending the signal again. If after 8 weeks with 3 week off peroid you do not

start up then you can use HCG instead of TRT.

>

> Hello to the group,

>

> I write as I hope you can help me. I'm 31 and have been suffering a gradual

decline in various aspects over the last 2 years - here are my symptoms-

>

> fatigue (especially in the mornings) even after a good 8 hours sleep

> feeling 'emotional' or 'depressed' (for no apparent reason)

> lack of spontaneous erections, morning erections

> softer erections during sexual activity

> loss of orgasm quality

> sore testicles following ejaculation

> long refractory period (2+ days)

>

> I recently took a full blood test with these results-

>

>

> TSH - 2.8 (0.5 - 5)

>

> Free T4 - 15.6 (10-25)

>

> Total T3 - 1.82 (1.1 - 2.8)

>

> Total Testosterone - 13.3 (8.6 - 56)

>

> SHBG - 31.6 (13-71)

>

> LH - 3.8 (1-8)

>

> FSH - 1.9 (<11)

>

> Estrogen - 121 (<130)

>

> Prolactin - 379 (<300)

>

> Cortisol (24 hour urine) - 299 (<320)

>

> There are clearly one or two issues here - very low testosterone (I'm only

aged 31 btw), low LH and FSH, raised prolactin, borderline Estrogen and

cortisol. Some people on another board have suggested the T4 and T3 are suspect

also as they fall outside the top 1/3 of the range.

>

> The endo said he found everything 'absolutely normal' apart from the

testosterone which he conceded is in his words 'a little bit on the low side'

(he also said that even men with a score of 8.6 on the ref range of 8.6-56,

would 'still have adeqaute sexual function').

>

> He thinks I 'might' be suffering with 'idiopathic hypogonadism'. He doesnt

wish to run any further tests or do an MRI. His 'treatment' consists of a 2

month course of Testogel to 'see what happens'.

>

> Is this guy a complete fool or is there some credence in what he says?

>

> Thanks

> PRPR

>

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:07:25 -0000, you wrote:

>Hello to the group,

>

>I write as I hope you can help me. I'm 31 and have been suffering a gradual

decline in various aspects over the last 2 years - here are my symptoms-

>

>fatigue (especially in the mornings) even after a good 8 hours sleep

>feeling 'emotional' or 'depressed' (for no apparent reason)

>lack of spontaneous erections, morning erections

>softer erections during sexual activity

>loss of orgasm quality

>sore testicles following ejaculation

>long refractory period (2+ days)

>

>I recently took a full blood test with these results-

>

>

>TSH - 2.8 (0.5 - 5)

>

>Free T4 - 15.6 (10-25)

>

>Total T3 - 1.82 (1.1 - 2.8)

>

>Total Testosterone - 13.3 (8.6 - 56)

>

>SHBG - 31.6 (13-71)

>

>LH - 3.8 (1-8)

>

>FSH - 1.9 (<11)

>

>Estrogen - 121 (<130)

>

>Prolactin - 379 (<300)

>

>Cortisol (24 hour urine) - 299 (<320)

>

>There are clearly one or two issues here - very low testosterone (I'm only aged

31 btw), low LH and FSH, raised prolactin, borderline Estrogen and cortisol.

Some people on another board have suggested the T4 and T3 are suspect also as

they fall outside the top 1/3 of the range.

>

>The endo said he found everything 'absolutely normal' apart from the

testosterone which he conceded is in his words 'a little bit on the low side'

(he also said that even men with a score of 8.6 on the ref range of 8.6-56,

would 'still have adeqaute sexual function').

>

>He thinks I 'might' be suffering with 'idiopathic hypogonadism'. He doesnt wish

to run any further tests or do an MRI. His 'treatment' consists of a 2 month

course of Testogel to 'see what happens'.

>

>Is this guy a complete fool or is there some credence in what he says?

>

>Thanks

>PRPR

To order T without an MRI and a PSA prostate test and exam is

malpractice.

Your T levels are too low. They are well below median for an 80 year

old man.

I notice your prolactin levels are high.

The estrogen level could be import nat. Is that E2 or is it total

estrogens and please provide the measurement units.

It would help if you provided units on the various tests.

Read the AACE guidelines for help and maybe get him to read them too,

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

[Guest guest]

Your thyroid labs show me you might be hypo one way to tell is to do this test

taking your temps first thing in the morning read this link.

http://drbate.com/Ref/thyroid.html

The thing about treating your thyroid is if you don't feel better you can stop

and your levels will go back your what your were before treating some good sites

to read about treating this and Endo's are not good for treating this or low

Testosterone.

http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/w/u/wurmstei/

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

I am a mod for Men Only Thyroid problems and low Cortisol at this site.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewforum.php?f=5

Meds like Synth­roid, Levoxyl, Oro­xine, Levothy­ro­xine, Eltro­xin, et

don't work well for most people they don't convert the T4 only meds into T3 and

other T's we get from the Thyroid.

Desic­ca­ted thy­roid meds work the bes like Armour, Natu­reth­roid and

Westh­roid.

Here is a good link on reading labs.

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/woliner.htm

Now for you sex hormones you did the wrong test doing Estrogen the bad guy for

men is Estradiol E2 do a Quest Labs test #4021 the range is 13 to 54 but if your

over 30 your to high best level is 20 pg/ml.

Your Testosterone is dam low and your LH and FSH is low but high levels of E2

can do this if you test your E2 levels and they are good at about 20 then you do

need an MRI on your Pituitary to rule out a tumor this is rare to be cancer.

Going by your labs it looks like you live in the UK or Canada. Endo's there are

better then the ones we have in the USA.

All your 24 hr. urine tells me is your levels look good what how about your

rhythm you need to be high in the morning and low at bed time people with

Adrenal problems are low in the morning and to high at night this keeps them

from sleeping good.

Endo's have a bad habbet of not listening to how you feel and go by labs to tell

men they are fine. But we are all not the same some men feel good with low

normal or mid range levels but if you feel like your saying you need to look

deeper into this.

Here is what I think so far about your labs if your Estradiol levels are good

you are Secondary meaning your Pituitary is not working and one thing that tells

me this is your low LH and FSH levels with low Testosterone and your high

Prolactin is high this can mean you have a pitutiary problem.

Yes men with very low testosterone can have sex I did it for yrs with my wife

and I was very low. But as my Estradiol levels went up I got some bad ED, could

not reach an orgasm and to keep my wife happy for 10 yrs. I used a penis pump to

pump it up and and penis ring to keep it up. It is low T and high Estradiol

that kills a mans libido and gives him ED and trouble reaching an orgasm.

Go on the Testogel here it's called Androgel he will start you on 5 grams this

is a low dose it will up your levels and you will start to feel better but when

your brain sees this the 13.3 level your testis are making can or will stop and

all that you will be left with is what the Gel is doing. So I tell men to

retest in 2 weeks to be sure the gels are working. Most men need more like 7.5

or 10 grams a day. And some men with a thyroid problem have thicker skin and

gels don't work well for them.

Here are some links about Estradiol show them to your Dr. should help him

understand how this can make your TRT not work well if your to high.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/nov2008_Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Ag\

ing-Male_01.htm

If you are high and you can't get your Dr. to give you Arimidex get this it's

sold OTC and will lower E2 levels.

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

Do a 4x's in a day Saliva Test to see how your Cortisol levels are from morning

to night. Here is a link about the Stages of this.

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%201%20.html

If your cortisol levels show you have Adreanl problems you need to fix them

first before treating your thyroid. You need Cortisol to carry the thyroid

hormone out of your blood into your cells here is a good link about this from a

dam good Dr. In the UK.

http://featherstone.bravehost.com/thyroid/peatfieldadrenal.html

Here is a cut and paste to get a saliva test from this link.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork/

================================

8 ) Uni­ted King­dom Lab­work from NP Tech, where they will send out the kit

for an ASI (adre­nal stress test), plus sex hor­mo­nes and a full thy­roid

panel etc. (thanks to “Mo†for this info) www.nptech.co.uk

9) Uni­ted King­dom Lab­work from Red Apple Cli­nic. Thy­roid, Adre­nals,

and others. (thanks to Crunchie for this info). www.redappleclinic.co.uk

10) Aus­tra­lian Lab­work from Analy­ti­cal Refe­rence Labo­ra­to­ries

(ARL) or Path­Lab You can’t order the kits your­self, unfor­tu­na­tely,

but can con­vince your doc­tor. Just ring either of these labs and ask what

doc­tor in your area uses their kits. ARL: 568 St Kilda Road

Melbourne,, Aus­tra­lia, 3004; (61 – 3) 9529 – 2922; fax

(61 – 3) 9529 – 7277 info@.... or Path­Lab: 68 Bur­wood

High­way, Bur­wood, Vic­to­ria 3125, (61 – 3) 8831 – 3000; Fax

(61 – 3) 9808 2247; (Nutri­tio­nal Labo­ra­tory Ser­vi­ces), Ed

Sorich Inte­gra­tive Medi­cine Dept; www.pathlab.com.au

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: bob <hatsandcoats@...>

> Subject: Doc says I have 'idiopathic hypogonadism' - please

help / advise

>

> Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 12:07 PM

> Hello to the group,

>

> I write as I hope you can help me. I'm 31 and have been

> suffering a gradual decline in various aspects over the last

> 2 years - here are my symptoms-

>

> fatigue (especially in the mornings) even after a good 8

> hours sleep

> feeling 'emotional' or 'depressed' (for no apparent

> reason)

> lack of spontaneous erections, morning erections

> softer erections during sexual activity

> loss of orgasm quality

> sore testicles following ejaculation

> long refractory period (2+ days)

>

> I recently took a full blood test with these results-

>

>

> TSH - 2.8 (0.5 - 5)

>

> Free T4 - 15.6 (10-25)

>

> Total T3 - 1.82 (1.1 - 2.8)

>

> Total Testosterone - 13.3 (8.6 - 56)

>

> SHBG - 31.6 (13-71)

>

> LH - 3.8 (1-8)

>

> FSH - 1.9 (<11)

>

> Estrogen - 121 (<130)

>

> Prolactin - 379 (<300)

>

> Cortisol (24 hour urine)  -  299 (<320)

>

> There are clearly one or two issues here - very low

> testosterone (I'm only aged 31 btw), low LH and FSH, raised

> prolactin, borderline Estrogen and cortisol. Some people on

> another board have suggested the T4 and T3 are suspect also

> as they fall outside the top 1/3 of the range.

>

> The endo said he found everything 'absolutely normal' apart

> from the testosterone which he conceded is in his words 'a

> little bit on the low side'  (he also said that even

> men with a score of 8.6 on the ref range of 8.6-56, would

> 'still have adeqaute sexual function').

>

> He thinks I 'might' be suffering with 'idiopathic

> hypogonadism'. He doesnt wish to run any further tests or do

> an MRI. His 'treatment' consists of a 2 month course of

> Testogel to 'see what happens'.

>

> Is this guy a complete fool or is there some credence in

> what he says?

>

> Thanks

> PRPR

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> >Hello to the group,

> >

> >I write as I hope you can help me. I'm 31 and have been suffering a gradual

decline in various aspects over the last 2 years - here are my symptoms-

> >

> >fatigue (especially in the mornings) even after a good 8 hours sleep

> >feeling 'emotional' or 'depressed' (for no apparent reason)

> >lack of spontaneous erections, morning erections

> >softer erections during sexual activity

> >loss of orgasm quality

> >sore testicles following ejaculation

> >long refractory period (2+ days)

> >

> >I recently took a full blood test with these results-

> >

> >

> >TSH - 2.8 (0.5 - 5)

> >

> >Free T4 - 15.6 (10-25)

> >

> >Total T3 - 1.82 (1.1 - 2.8)

> >

> >Total Testosterone - 13.3 (8.6 - 56)

> >

> >SHBG - 31.6 (13-71)

> >

> >LH - 3.8 (1-8)

> >

> >FSH - 1.9 (<11)

> >

> >Estrogen - 121 (<130)

> >

> >Prolactin - 379 (<300)

> >

> >Cortisol (24 hour urine) - 299 (<320)

> >

> >There are clearly one or two issues here - very low testosterone (I'm only

aged 31 btw), low LH and FSH, raised prolactin, borderline Estrogen and

cortisol. Some people on another board have suggested the T4 and T3 are suspect

also as they fall outside the top 1/3 of the range.

> >

> >The endo said he found everything 'absolutely normal' apart from the

testosterone which he conceded is in his words 'a little bit on the low side'

(he also said that even men with a score of 8.6 on the ref range of 8.6-56,

would 'still have adeqaute sexual function').

> >

> >He thinks I 'might' be suffering with 'idiopathic hypogonadism'. He doesnt

wish to run any further tests or do an MRI. His 'treatment' consists of a 2

month course of Testogel to 'see what happens'.

> >

> >Is this guy a complete fool or is there some credence in what he says?

> >

> >Thanks

> >PRPR

>

>

> To order T without an MRI and a PSA prostate test and exam is

> malpractice.

>

> Your T levels are too low. They are well below median for an 80 year

> old man.

>

> I notice your prolactin levels are high.

>

> The estrogen level could be import nat. Is that E2 or is it total

> estrogens and please provide the measurement units.

>

> It would help if you provided units on the various tests.

>

> Read the AACE guidelines for help and maybe get him to read them too,

> http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

>

Hi, thank you for your advice, I appreciate your time.

I am not able to provide units as none are included on my results, only

reference ranges. The estrogen level was only labelled as 'oestradiol'. I am in

the UK and as I am finding out getting to see a proper doctor is almost

impossible

[Guest guest]

>

> > From: bob <hatsandcoats@...>

> > Subject: Doc says I have 'idiopathic hypogonadism' - please

help / advise

> >

> > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 12:07 PM

> > Hello to the group,

> >

> > I write as I hope you can help me. I'm 31 and have been

> > suffering a gradual decline in various aspects over the last

> > 2 years - here are my symptoms-

> >

> > fatigue (especially in the mornings) even after a good 8

> > hours sleep

> > feeling 'emotional' or 'depressed' (for no apparent

> > reason)

> > lack of spontaneous erections, morning erections

> > softer erections during sexual activity

> > loss of orgasm quality

> > sore testicles following ejaculation

> > long refractory period (2+ days)

> >

> > I recently took a full blood test with these results-

> >

> >

> > TSH - 2.8 (0.5 - 5)

> >

> > Free T4 - 15.6 (10-25)

> >

> > Total T3 - 1.82 (1.1 - 2.8)

> >

> > Total Testosterone - 13.3 (8.6 - 56)

> >

> > SHBG - 31.6 (13-71)

> >

> > LH - 3.8 (1-8)

> >

> > FSH - 1.9 (<11)

> >

> > Estrogen - 121 (<130)

> >

> > Prolactin - 379 (<300)

> >

> > Cortisol (24 hour urine)  -  299 (<320)

> >

> > There are clearly one or two issues here - very low

> > testosterone (I'm only aged 31 btw), low LH and FSH, raised

> > prolactin, borderline Estrogen and cortisol. Some people on

> > another board have suggested the T4 and T3 are suspect also

> > as they fall outside the top 1/3 of the range.

> >

> > The endo said he found everything 'absolutely normal' apart

> > from the testosterone which he conceded is in his words 'a

> > little bit on the low side'  (he also said that even

> > men with a score of 8.6 on the ref range of 8.6-56, would

> > 'still have adeqaute sexual function').

> >

> > He thinks I 'might' be suffering with 'idiopathic

> > hypogonadism'. He doesnt wish to run any further tests or do

> > an MRI. His 'treatment' consists of a 2 month course of

> > Testogel to 'see what happens'.

> >

> > Is this guy a complete fool or is there some credence in

> > what he says?

> >

> > Thanks

> > PRPR

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Please post like I just did on the top of the thread so people with phones can

read your reply. Yes see that Dr. Peatfield or ask him for the name of a good

Dr. or hook up with Nick O'Hara he can help you find a good Dr.

http://www.androids.org.uk/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: bob <hatsandcoats@...>

> Subject: Re: Doc says I have 'idiopathic hypogonadism' - please

help / advise

>

> Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:52 PM

>

> >

> > > From: bob <hatsandcoats@...>

> > > Subject: Doc says I have

> 'idiopathic hypogonadism' - please help / advise

> > >

> > > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 12:07 PM

> > > Hello to the group,

> > >

> > > I write as I hope you can help me. I'm 31 and

> have been

> > > suffering a gradual decline in various aspects

> over the last

> > > 2 years - here are my symptoms-

> > >

> > > fatigue (especially in the mornings) even after a

> good 8

> > > hours sleep

> > > feeling 'emotional' or 'depressed' (for no

> apparent

> > > reason)

> > > lack of spontaneous erections, morning erections

> > > softer erections during sexual activity

> > > loss of orgasm quality

> > > sore testicles following ejaculation

> > > long refractory period (2+ days)

> > >

> > > I recently took a full blood test with these

> results-

> > >

> > >

> > > TSH - 2.8 (0.5 - 5)

> > >

> > > Free T4 - 15.6 (10-25)

> > >

> > > Total T3 - 1.82 (1.1 - 2.8)

> > >

> > > Total Testosterone - 13.3 (8.6 - 56)

> > >

> > > SHBG - 31.6 (13-71)

> > >

> > > LH - 3.8 (1-8)

> > >

> > > FSH - 1.9 (<11)

> > >

> > > Estrogen - 121 (<130)

> > >

> > > Prolactin - 379 (<300)

> > >

> > > Cortisol (24 hour urine)  -  299 (<320)

> > >

> > > There are clearly one or two issues here - very

> low

> > > testosterone (I'm only aged 31 btw), low LH and

> FSH, raised

> > > prolactin, borderline Estrogen and cortisol. Some

> people on

> > > another board have suggested the T4 and T3 are

> suspect also

> > > as they fall outside the top 1/3 of the range.

> > >

> > > The endo said he found everything 'absolutely

> normal' apart

> > > from the testosterone which he conceded is in his

> words 'a

> > > little bit on the low side'  (he also said

> that even

> > > men with a score of 8.6 on the ref range of

> 8.6-56, would

> > > 'still have adeqaute sexual function').

> > >

> > > He thinks I 'might' be suffering with

> 'idiopathic

> > > hypogonadism'. He doesnt wish to run any further

> tests or do

> > > an MRI. His 'treatment' consists of a 2 month

> course of

> > > Testogel to 'see what happens'.

> > >

> > > Is this guy a complete fool or is there some

> credence in

> > > what he says?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > PRPR

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:19:03 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi, thank you for your advice, I appreciate your time.

>I am not able to provide units as none are included on my results, only

reference ranges. The estrogen level was only labelled as 'oestradiol'. I am in

the UK and as I am finding out getting to see a proper doctor is almost

impossible

Oestradiol is the right test. Here in the US we spell it without the

" O " . It is E2 the strongest form of estrogen and the most important

one for men to watch. If this is in the standard units of pg/ml This

is extraordinary high. You'd want levels in the neighborhood of 20 to

30.

If it is in pmol/L that would equate to roughly 32 points and should

not be causing you much trouble.

Your total T in US conventional units is about 383.

That's a level for an 85 year old man. See this chart:

http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/UNK_Sr2d7EDjDFzMXK56l6DXCSiXdQAo08L2AFMSxZNfUeDqfBB\

7O2o6TaaexDHlsuqW7YESGH1L3qeGIMncfwDLWlfBRbouW5YBrRQ/Testosterone%20Levels%20by%\

20Age%20Grp.

[Guest guest]

You need an mri... Your level of prolacin may indicate a pituitary tumor called

a prolactinoma.

You're insurance should pay for it.

Prunty

allen@...

---

Sent on the go from my Peek

-------------------------------------

retrogrouch<retrogrouch@...> wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:07:25 -0000, you wrote:

>Hello to the group,

>

>I write as I hope you can help me. I'm 31 and have been suffering a gradual

decline in various aspects over the last 2 years - here are my symptoms-

>

>fatigue (especially in the mornings) even after a good 8 hours sleep

>feeling 'emotional' or 'depressed' (for no apparent reason)

>lack of spontaneous erections, morning erections

>softer erections during sexual activity

>loss of orgasm quality

>sore testicles following ejaculation

>long refractory period (2+ days)

>

>I recently took a full blood test with these results-

>

>

>TSH - 2.8 (0.5 - 5)

>

>Free T4 - 15.6 (10-25)

>

>Total T3 - 1.82 (1.1 - 2.8)

>

>Total Testosterone - 13.3 (8.6 - 56)

>

>SHBG - 31.6 (13-71)

>

>LH - 3.8 (1-8)

>

>FSH - 1.9 (<11)

>

>Estrogen - 121 (<130)

>

>Prolactin - 379 (<300)

>

>Cortisol (24 hour urine) - 299 (<320)

>

>There are clearly one or two issues here - very low testosterone (I'm only aged

31 btw), low LH and FSH, raised prolactin, borderline Estrogen and cortisol.

Some people on another board have suggested the T4 and T3 are suspect also as

they fall outside the top 1/3 of the range.

>

>The endo said he found everything 'absolutely normal' apart from the

testosterone which he conceded is in his words 'a little bit on the low side'

(he also said that even men with a score of 8.6 on the ref range of 8.6-56,

would 'still have adeqaute sexual function').

>

>He thinks I 'might' be suffering with 'idiopathic hypogonadism'. He doesnt wish

to run any further tests or do an MRI. His 'treatment' consists of a 2 month

course of Testogel to 'see what happens'.

>

>Is this guy a complete fool or is there some credence in what he says?

>

>Thanks

>PRPR

To order T without an MRI and a PSA prostate test and exam is

malpractice.

Your T levels are too low. They are well below median for an 80 year

old man.

I notice your prolactin levels are high.

The estrogen level could be import nat. Is that E2 or is it total

estrogens and please provide the measurement units.

It would help if you provided units on the various tests.

Read the AACE guidelines for help and maybe get him to read them too,

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Prolactin is also driven by low thyroid and also b-6, zinc deficeincy,

Could also indicate adrenal issues due to low production of dopamine from

specific area of the adrenals glands.

>

> >Hello to the group,

> >

> >I write as I hope you can help me. I'm 31 and have been suffering a gradual

decline in various aspects over the last 2 years - here are my symptoms-

> >

> >fatigue (especially in the mornings) even after a good 8 hours sleep

> >feeling 'emotional' or 'depressed' (for no apparent reason)

> >lack of spontaneous erections, morning erections

> >softer erections during sexual activity

> >loss of orgasm quality

> >sore testicles following ejaculation

> >long refractory period (2+ days)

> >

> >I recently took a full blood test with these results-

> >

> >

> >TSH - 2.8 (0.5 - 5)

> >

> >Free T4 - 15.6 (10-25)

> >

> >Total T3 - 1.82 (1.1 - 2.8)

> >

> >Total Testosterone - 13.3 (8.6 - 56)

> >

> >SHBG - 31.6 (13-71)

> >

> >LH - 3.8 (1-8)

> >

> >FSH - 1.9 (<11)

> >

> >Estrogen - 121 (<130)

> >

> >Prolactin - 379 (<300)

> >

> >Cortisol (24 hour urine) - 299 (<320)

> >

> >There are clearly one or two issues here - very low testosterone (I'm only

aged 31 btw), low LH and FSH, raised prolactin, borderline Estrogen and

cortisol. Some people on another board have suggested the T4 and T3 are suspect

also as they fall outside the top 1/3 of the range.

> >

> >The endo said he found everything 'absolutely normal' apart from the

testosterone which he conceded is in his words 'a little bit on the low side'

(he also said that even men with a score of 8.6 on the ref range of 8.6-56,

would 'still have adeqaute sexual function').

> >

> >He thinks I 'might' be suffering with 'idiopathic hypogonadism'. He doesnt

wish to run any further tests or do an MRI. His 'treatment' consists of a 2

month course of Testogel to 'see what happens'.

> >

> >Is this guy a complete fool or is there some credence in what he says?

> >

> >Thanks

> >PRPR

>

>

> To order T without an MRI and a PSA prostate test and exam is

> malpractice.

>

> Your T levels are too low. They are well below median for an 80 year

> old man.

>

> I notice your prolactin levels are high.

>

> The estrogen level could be import nat. Is that E2 or is it total

> estrogens and please provide the measurement units.

>

> It would help if you provided units on the various tests.

>

> Read the AACE guidelines for help and maybe get him to read them too,

> http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > >Hello to the group,

> > >

> > >I write as I hope you can help me. I'm 31 and have been suffering a gradual

decline in various aspects over the last 2 years - here are my symptoms-

> > >

> > >fatigue (especially in the mornings) even after a good 8 hours sleep

> > >feeling 'emotional' or 'depressed' (for no apparent reason)

> > >lack of spontaneous erections, morning erections

> > >softer erections during sexual activity

> > >loss of orgasm quality

> > >sore testicles following ejaculation

> > >long refractory period (2+ days)

> > >

> > >I recently took a full blood test with these results-

> > >

> > >

> > >TSH - 2.8 (0.5 - 5)

> > >

> > >Free T4 - 15.6 (10-25)

> > >

> > >Total T3 - 1.82 (1.1 - 2.8)

> > >

> > >Total Testosterone - 13.3 (8.6 - 56)

> > >

> > >SHBG - 31.6 (13-71)

> > >

> > >LH - 3.8 (1-8)

> > >

> > >FSH - 1.9 (<11)

> > >

> > >Estrogen - 121 (<130)

> > >

> > >Prolactin - 379 (<300)

> > >

> > >Cortisol (24 hour urine) - 299 (<320)

> > >

> > >There are clearly one or two issues here - very low testosterone (I'm only

aged 31 btw), low LH and FSH, raised prolactin, borderline Estrogen and

cortisol. Some people on another board have suggested the T4 and T3 are suspect

also as they fall outside the top 1/3 of the range.

> > >

> > >The endo said he found everything 'absolutely normal' apart from the

testosterone which he conceded is in his words 'a little bit on the low side'

(he also said that even men with a score of 8.6 on the ref range of 8.6-56,

would 'still have adeqaute sexual function').

> > >

> > >He thinks I 'might' be suffering with 'idiopathic hypogonadism'. He doesnt

wish to run any further tests or do an MRI. His 'treatment' consists of a 2

month course of Testogel to 'see what happens'.

> > >

> > >Is this guy a complete fool or is there some credence in what he says?

> > >

> > >Thanks

> > >PRPR

> >

> >

> > To order T without an MRI and a PSA prostate test and exam is

> > malpractice.

> >

> > Your T levels are too low. They are well below median for an 80 year

> > old man.

> >

> > I notice your prolactin levels are high.

> >

> > The estrogen level could be import nat. Is that E2 or is it total

> > estrogens and please provide the measurement units.

> >

> > It would help if you provided units on the various tests.

> >

> > Read the AACE guidelines for help and maybe get him to read them too,

> > http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Starting on that low a dose you might feel better then fall back this happens

because your brain sees the Testosterone in your blood and slows down the LH and

FSH messages to your testis to make more T. So lets say you started at 400 the

low 5 gram dose of gel took you up 300 points your brain sees this stops making

the 400 you can end up lower then you started.

So I tell men get tested again in 2 weeks so you know it's working good. If

your told to come back in a few months and you feel good the first week then

fall back call your Dr. tell him what I posted here that you can end up at your

base levels or lower. Most men do better at a higher dose 7.5 to 10 grams.

You should start to feel better soon but after this your body will start to undo

the damage done by the low T and your going to do better a little everyday it's

a slow process can take a good 6 months to feel your best.

Be sure to test your Estradiol levels on gels they can go up and this will take

away any good the testosterone is doing so keep it down say 20 pg/ml.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: bob <hatsandcoats@...>

> Subject: Re: Doc says I have 'idiopathic hypogonadism' - please

help / advise

>

> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 2:41 PM

>

> > >

> > > >Hello to the group,

> > > >

> > > >I write as I hope you can help me. I'm 31 and

> have been suffering a gradual decline in various aspects

> over the last 2 years - here are my symptoms-

> > > >

> > > >fatigue (especially in the mornings) even

> after a good 8 hours sleep

> > > >feeling 'emotional' or 'depressed' (for no

> apparent reason)

> > > >lack of spontaneous erections, morning

> erections

> > > >softer erections during sexual activity

> > > >loss of orgasm quality

> > > >sore testicles following ejaculation

> > > >long refractory period (2+ days)

> > > >

> > > >I recently took a full blood test with these

> results-

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >TSH - 2.8 (0.5 - 5)

> > > >

> > > >Free T4 - 15.6 (10-25)

> > > >

> > > >Total T3 - 1.82 (1.1 - 2.8)

> > > >

> > > >Total Testosterone - 13.3 (8.6 - 56)

> > > >

> > > >SHBG - 31.6 (13-71)

> > > >

> > > >LH - 3.8 (1-8)

> > > >

> > > >FSH - 1.9 (<11)

> > > >

> > > >Estrogen - 121 (<130)

> > > >

> > > >Prolactin - 379 (<300)

> > > >

> > > >Cortisol (24 hour urine)  -  299

> (<320)

> > > >

> > > >There are clearly one or two issues here -

> very low testosterone (I'm only aged 31 btw), low LH and

> FSH, raised prolactin, borderline Estrogen and cortisol.

> Some people on another board have suggested the T4 and T3

> are suspect also as they fall outside the top 1/3 of the

> range.

> > > >

> > > >The endo said he found everything 'absolutely

> normal' apart from the testosterone which he conceded is in

> his words 'a little bit on the low side'  (he also said

> that even men with a score of 8.6 on the ref range of

> 8.6-56, would 'still have adeqaute sexual function').

> > > >

> > > >He thinks I 'might' be suffering with

> 'idiopathic hypogonadism'. He doesnt wish to run any further

> tests or do an MRI. His 'treatment' consists of a 2 month

> course of Testogel to 'see what happens'.

> > > >

> > > >Is this guy a complete fool or is there some

> credence in what he says?

> > > >

> > > >Thanks

> > > >PRPR

> > >

> > >

> > > To order T without an MRI and a PSA prostate test

> and exam is

> > > malpractice.

> > >

> > > Your T levels are too low. They are well below

> median for an 80 year

> > > old man.

> > >

> > > I notice your prolactin levels are high.

> > >

> > > The estrogen level could be import nat. Is that

> E2 or is it total

> > > estrogens and please provide the measurement

> units.

> > >

> > > It would help if you provided units on the

> various tests.

> > >

> > > Read the AACE guidelines for help and maybe get

> him to read them too,

> > > http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >