Re: New Doc Problems

[Guest guest]

Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

so he can get a fresh baseline number.

This is INSANE.

Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

from the previous doctor.

No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

norton

[Guest guest]

Don't do this there is no such thing as a Base Line test you will crash big time

and it will take you forever to get back to where you are now. Tell this A hole

you will sue him if he dose not keep treating you like your old Dr. did. When

you go off TRT your body will not jump back in and start making hormones again

just dose not happen you will fall lower then you every were before this. I

have been sent to Endo's that do this crap 7 of them and not one ever found out

anything but how dam sick they made me this jerk sounds like he is an endo ask

him if you were a diabetic would he take you off your meds to see how low you

fall. I feel this is criminal don't do this if I had a chose I would treat my

self buy T over the web before I let a Dr. do this shi* to me again.

I would end up on Sick leave I just had heart bypass sugary and the Dam Dr. took

me off TRT without telling me or my family I died 5 x's do to infections and

bone loss they put wire in to hold my ribs together and because he took me off

TRT my bones became infected I was out cold 17 weeks dam near did not make it.

You need Testosterone to keep your joints and muscles healthy even your heart.

My heart went bad because Dr.'s did not get my problem right they Endo's told me

I am Primary and I am not I am Secondary so all them yrs with lower hormones did

a job on my heart.

There is no such thing at taking one off TRT for a Base line Test read the AACE

Guildlines I never seen anything about this in them.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

If you don't believe me go to Dr. nio's fourm and post about this to him

tell him I sent you.

http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php

Even post this at Dr. 's forum

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s= & daysprune= & f=2

I get my meds at Caremark they after many yrs of paying for my Testosterone meds

told my Dr. they need him to prove to them that I have low Testosterone he told

them this is nuts I have been on TRT for over 27 yrs and he asked them how they

feel he should do this they told him to stop the meds and run labs to prove I am

low. He told them he would not do this it is very bad for my heath and he would

testify on my behalf in court when I sue them. They sent me my meds.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: robbnc1 <no_reply >

> Subject: New Doc Problems

>

> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 9:20 AM

> Here's the situation: My doc retired

> and the others doc in the practice

> has taken over my treatment. This moron insists that I go

> off T for

> two weeks and get a baseline reading before he can continue

> my treatment. I have been on compounded cream for 4 years

> and usually have

> a level of 700. I also do 250u of HCG twice a week.

>

> I know I should find another doc but this is a rural area

> and finding

> one that would write a script for T under any circumstances

> is difficult. My question is: whats's the minimum time I

> could go off the

> T and still show this idiot a low number?

>

> thanks,

> Robb

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

OMG Robb, Phil is right ( of course). My Urologist did the same crap to me and I

crashed real bad. (That was BEFORE I learned about this board). DON'T DO IT. You

have a T of 700. I had a T of 191 in May 2009, and went off it and down to a

157. I was as sad as hell.

>

> > From: robbnc1 <no_reply >

> > Subject: New Doc Problems

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 9:20 AM

> > Here's the situation: My doc retired

> > and the others doc in the practice

> > has taken over my treatment. This moron insists that I go

> > off T for

> > two weeks and get a baseline reading before he can continue

> > my treatment. I have been on compounded cream for 4 years

> > and usually have

> > a level of 700. I also do 250u of HCG twice a week.

> >

> > I know I should find another doc but this is a rural area

> > and finding

> > one that would write a script for T under any circumstances

> > is difficult. My question is: whats's the minimum time I

> > could go off the

> > T and still show this idiot a low number?

> >

> > thanks,

> > Robb

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Could you possibly cut back on the amount of T you're currently taking? You have

to play this JO's game. Phil, if he cut back 50% of the current dose, what would

happen? I would then put on an academy award act in the office, leading to legal

action if he doesn't do right by you.

>

> Here's the situation: My doc retired and the others doc in the practice

> has taken over my treatment. This moron insists that I go off T for

> two weeks and get a baseline reading before he can continue my treatment. I

have been on compounded cream for 4 years and usually have

> a level of 700. I also do 250u of HCG twice a week.

>

> I know I should find another doc but this is a rural area and finding

> one that would write a script for T under any circumstances is difficult. My

question is: whats's the minimum time I could go off the

> T and still show this idiot a low number?

>

> thanks,

> Robb

>

[Guest guest]

I wish I could say this would work but it will not cutting back on the dose will

still make him crash it's the levels going down that make us feel sick. He

would be better off seeing if he can get his Family Dr. to work with Dr.

over the phone to test and treat him Dr. does this for men. And doing the

Dr. learns about TRT on ones dime.

www.allthingsmale.com or fly or drive out to see him you only need to see him

once and then he can test and treat you by Email.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@...>

> Subject: Re: New Doc Problems

>

> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 2:00 PM

> Could you possibly cut back on the

> amount of T you're currently taking? You have to play this

> JO's game. Phil, if he cut back 50% of the current dose,

> what would happen? I would then put on an academy award act

> in the office, leading to legal action if he doesn't do

> right by you.

>

>

> >

> > Here's the situation: My doc retired and the others

> doc in the practice

> > has taken over my treatment. This moron insists that I

> go off T for

> > two weeks and get a baseline reading before he can

> continue my treatment. I have been on compounded cream for 4

> years and usually have

> > a level of 700. I also do 250u of HCG twice a week.

> >

> > I know I should find another doc but this is a rural

> area and finding

> > one that would write a script for T under any

> circumstances is difficult. My question is: whats's the

> minimum time I could go off the

> > T and still show this idiot a low number?

> >

> > thanks,

> > Robb

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Have you checked the physicians reference list in the database for a doc that is

atleast somewhat close to you? You may have to drive a 100 miles or something.

>

> Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> This is INSANE.

> Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> from the previous doctor.

> No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> norton

>

[Guest guest]

Is it even legal for a doctor to take a patient off a medication that has been

working fine for him and has shown no bad effects? I would find a cheap attorney

to write a letter. Probably any attorney would jump at this.

>

> Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> This is INSANE.

> Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> from the previous doctor.

> No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> norton

>

[Guest guest]

whatas eeryones opoinion on whether ishould sue my urologist for not treating me

for over 2 yrs fo low t and my leg splitting in about 8 fractures in the car

accident from my bones being like jello

Re: New Doc Problems

Have you checked the physicians reference list in the database for a doc

that is atleast somewhat close to you? You may have to drive a 100 miles or

something.

>

> Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> This is INSANE.

> Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> from the previous doctor.

> No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> norton

>

[Guest guest]

I have been down this road and it's a long and hard one your sick and need to

get well doing trying to do this will stress the crap out of you. Maybe Reto

will jump in on this one I my self would just forget about this and move on.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Jim B <j-buscemi@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: New Doc Problems

>

> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 2:59 PM

> whatas eeryones opoinion on whether

> ishould sue my urologist for not treating me for over 2 yrs

> fo low t and my leg splitting in about 8 fractures in the

> car accident from my bones being like jello

>   Re: New Doc Problems

>

>

>     Have you checked the physicians reference

> list in the database for a doc that is atleast somewhat

> close to you? You may have to drive a 100 miles or

> something.

>

>  

>   >

>   > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off

> insulin for two weeks

>   > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

>   > This is INSANE.

>   > Ask him for a really good reason why you should

> be made to feel

>   > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason,

> especially since

>   > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and

> treatment program

>   > from the previous doctor.

>   > No one should be made to suffer for no good

> medical reason.

>   > norton

>   >

>

>

>

>  

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

Thanks for the replies everyone, I checked the database and didn't

see any docs in my state, (NC). I was thinking about trying a

DO instead of MD. Any experience with those guys? Dr is a DO

if I'm not mistaken. Also, do you really have to make a trip to

MI to get him to work with a local doc? I thought a local DO might

be more open to the idea since Dr is a DO.

what do you think?

-- In , " virtuosa150 " <virtuosa150@...> wrote:

>

> Have you checked the physicians reference list in the database for a doc that

is atleast somewhat close to you? You may have to drive a 100 miles or

something.

>

>

> >

> > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > This is INSANE.

> > Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> > from the previous doctor.

> > No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> > norton

> >

>

[Guest guest]

We are not lawyers and would likely side with you.

You need to call an attorney and see what they think.

norton

>

> whatas eeryones opoinion on whether ishould sue my urologist for not treating

me for over 2 yrs fo low t and my leg splitting in about 8 fractures in the car

accident from my bones being like jello

> Re: New Doc Problems

>

>

> Have you checked the physicians reference list in the database for a doc

that is atleast somewhat close to you? You may have to drive a 100 miles or

something.

>

>

> >

> > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > This is INSANE.

> > Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> > from the previous doctor.

> > No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> > norton

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Is it good for men to take DIM if they are taking armitrex?

On Aug 25, 2009, at 4:50 PM, philip georgian wrote:

> I have been down this road and it's a long and hard one your sick

> and need to get well doing trying to do this will stress the crap

> out of you. Maybe Reto will jump in on this one I my self would just

> forget about this and move on.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

>

>

> > From: Jim B <j-buscemi@...>

> > Subject: Re: Re: New Doc Problems

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 2:59 PM

> > whatas eeryones opoinion on whether

> > ishould sue my urologist for not treating me for over 2 yrs

> > fo low t and my leg splitting in about 8 fractures in the

> > car accident from my bones being like jello

> > Re: New Doc Problems

> >

> >

> > Have you checked the physicians reference

> > list in the database for a doc that is atleast somewhat

> > close to you? You may have to drive a 100 miles or

> > something.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off

> > insulin for two weeks

> > > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > > This is INSANE.

> > > Ask him for a really good reason why you should

> > be made to feel

> > > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason,

> > especially since

> > > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and

> > treatment program

> > > from the previous doctor.

> > > No one should be made to suffer for no good

> > medical reason.

> > > norton

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Sue him! And go to your states medical board and file a complaint against him.

Until doctors feel some pain for neglecting us it will be hard to change their

lethargic minds.If you can't find a lawyer, or the med board in your state,

write me. Two years. TWO YEARS.

> >

> > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > This is INSANE.

> > Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> > from the previous doctor.

> > No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> > norton

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Norton, why ask why? Who care what his answer is? Tell him I am NOT going off

of it, and if you REFUSE to continue my treatment I WILL report you to the State

Medical Board. Have him explain to the State medical board why he thinks this is

a good idea. ly, this might be a good thing to get some current knowledge

out there. Won't it be nice of all doctors in the state received a letter from

the board waring them NOT to withhold treatment from hypogonodal men? At the

very least your case will be talked about at the next medical conference.

Why are we letting these doctors control our very lives when we know better?

> >

> > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > This is INSANE.

> > Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> > from the previous doctor.

> > No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> > norton

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You don't need to see Dr. to use your family Dr. just contack him at

www.allthingsmale.com set up a Phone date and he will work with your Dr.

DO's are dam good Dr.'s but like any kind of Dr. you need to call them first

read in the files How to find a Male hormone Dr. and here is a link on DO's.

http://www.geocities.com/chrisgjsbcglobal (DOT) net/Osteopaths.html

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > Have you checked the physicians reference list in the

> database for a doc that is atleast somewhat close to you?

> You may have to drive a 100 miles or something.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off

> insulin for two weeks

> > > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > > This is INSANE.

> > > Ask him for a really good reason why you should

> be made to feel

> > > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason,

> especially since

> > > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and

> treatment program

> > > from the previous doctor.

> > > No one should be made to suffer for no good

> medical reason.

> > > norton

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Go to this website to look for a doc: http://www.sexualhealthpartners.com

There's several docs listed in NC.

> > >

> > > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> > > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > > This is INSANE.

> > > Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> > > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> > > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> > > from the previous doctor.

> > > No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> > > norton

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think this overstates the point a bit. Patients should report doctors when

they act in clear defiance of safety guidelines or act negligently, but the

problem for docs regarding TRT is the lack of clear standards in the first

place. This is what creates the abyss of ignorance that makes doctors consider

a " baseline " testosterone reading for patients already on TRT. (Or perhaps

insurance companies are to blame for the washout " baseline " level.) The AACE

Guidelines for TRT/Hypogonadism are not nearly as explicit as guidelines for

other conditions like 's disease or insulin-dependent diabetes, where the

absence of relevant hormones will result in death in days or weeks. I think the

doctor will be more inclined to simply release you as a patient than concede

based on a threat like this when the circumstances of the system are in his

favor.

Nonetheless, if mention of reporting your doc to the medical board for this

practice makes him cooperate...

~Xian

> > >

> > > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> > > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > > This is INSANE.

> > > Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> > > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> > > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> > > from the previous doctor.

> > > No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> > > norton

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

How close are you to Atlanta? Dr Ana Casas (she is listed in the files here I

believe) but I don't have direct experience with her protocols..

http://www.atlagemgmtmed.com/about/index.php

El

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Here's the situation: My doc retired and the others doc in the practice

> > has taken over my treatment. This moron insists that I go off T for

> > two weeks and get a baseline reading before he can continue my treatment. I

have been on compounded cream for 4 years and usually have

> > a level of 700. I also do 250u of HCG twice a week.

> >

> > I know I should find another doc but this is a rural area and finding

> > one that would write a script for T under any circumstances is difficult. My

question is: whats's the minimum time I could go off the

> > T and still show this idiot a low number?

> >

> > thanks,

> > Robb

> >

>

If you want to fudge the results.

come off for 3 days stop HCG and then you can retest testosterone will clear of

out the system in gel in less then 3 days you be back down to baseline. Just do

not take hcg week of the testing. This way you can get low results and also

maintain some what of a sound state in the process. If you can not find another

DR this may be your only way around it with out causing you a living hell.

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> > > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > > This is INSANE.

> > > Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> > > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> > > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> > > from the previous doctor.

> > > No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> > > norton

> > >

> >

>

Feel free you can contact me as i run a clinic up in the northeast that

specializes in adernals, thyroid and testosterone through treating the person

and the cause of the issue and not just symptoms. Dr J is a good at what he

does thats for sure, but every one has their opinons about dr's.

[Guest guest]

Welcome big guy!

________________________________

From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:30:35 AM

Subject: Re: New Doc Problems

 

> > >

> > > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> > > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > > This is INSANE.

> > > Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> > > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> > > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> > > from the previous doctor.

> > > No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> > > norton

> > >

> >

>

Feel free you can contact me as i run a clinic up in the northeast that

specializes in adernals, thyroid and testosterone through treating the person

and the cause of the issue and not just symptoms. Dr J is a good at what he does

thats for sure, but every one has their opinons about dr's.

[Guest guest]

No I got dam sick doing this my Dr. thought it would be a good idea I had

problems with rashes on my body that you did not dare scratch. Bad Brain fog we

did not now what was doing this until I ran out of DIM it was on back order and

my problems went away. If one needs to take something to keep Estradiol down

and they can get Arimidex then I say do the Arimidex it works the best.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > From: Jim B <j-buscemi@...>

> > > Subject: Re: Re: New Doc Problems

> > >

> > > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 2:59 PM

> > > whatas eeryones opoinion on whether

> > > ishould sue my urologist for not treating me for

> over 2 yrs

> > > fo low t and my leg splitting in about 8

> fractures in the

> > > car accident from my bones being like jello

> > >    Re: New

> Doc Problems

> > >

> > >

> > >     Have you checked the

> physicians reference

> > > list in the database for a doc that is atleast

> somewhat

> > > close to you? You may have to drive a 100 miles

> or

> > > something.

> > >

> > >   

> > >   >

> > >   > Ask the doc if he would

> take a diabetic off

> > > insulin for two weeks

> > >   > so he can get a fresh

> baseline number.

> > >   > This is INSANE.

> > >   > Ask him for a really good

> reason why you should

> > > be made to feel

> > >   > all the ill effects of low

> T for ANY reason,

> > > especially since

> > >   > he already has the

> diagnosis, numbers, and

> > > treatment program

> > >   > from the previous doctor.

> > >   > No one should be made to

> suffer for no good

> > > medical reason.

> > >   > norton

> > >   >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Sorry but the State Board if they had there way no one would be able to get

Testosterone. I have been down this road it's not worth fighting the Gov. or

the Medical Board. All this will do is stress you out get you more upset and

keep you there.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: wilfredtr <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: New Doc Problems

>

> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:54 PM

> Norton, why ask why?  Who care

> what his answer is? Tell him I am NOT going off of it, and

> if you REFUSE to continue my treatment I WILL report you to

> the State Medical Board. Have him explain to the State

> medical board why he thinks this is a good idea. ly,

> this might be a good thing to get some current knowledge out

> there. Won't it be nice of all doctors in the state received

> a letter from the board waring them NOT to withhold

> treatment from hypogonodal men? At the very least your case

> will be talked about at the next medical conference.

>

> Why are we letting these doctors control our very lives

> when we know better?

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off

> insulin for two weeks

> > > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > > This is INSANE.

> > > Ask him for a really good reason why you should

> be made to feel

> > > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason,

> especially since

> > > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and

> treatment program

> > > from the previous doctor.

> > > No one should be made to suffer for no good

> medical reason.

> > > norton

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ignorance is the problem, with both the doctor and the medical board. The fact

is, that this " baseline " is nonsense. He and the board need to be given new

knowledge (links, videos, papers) from Dr. C or Dr. Morgentaler both who

are competent and well respected. As long as the fight remains between you and

your doctor, you have no leverage.

I have found in life, that " appealing to Ceaser " is not necessarily about

winning or losing the case, it's about changing the umpires in the game. The

truth is on our side.

The fact that someone has tried it and failed is no reason not to try again. Few

times in life are things turned around on the first, or even the second try.

It's the relentless drip drip drip that make you finally pay attention.

> > > >

> > > > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> > > > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > > > This is INSANE.

> > > > Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> > > > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> > > > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> > > > from the previous doctor.

> > > > No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> > > > norton

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > > >

> > > > Ask the doc if he would take a diabetic off insulin for two weeks

> > > > so he can get a fresh baseline number.

> > > > This is INSANE.

> > > > Ask him for a really good reason why you should be made to feel

> > > > all the ill effects of low T for ANY reason, especially since

> > > > he already has the diagnosis, numbers, and treatment program

> > > > from the previous doctor.

> > > > No one should be made to suffer for no good medical reason.

> > > > norton

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> Feel free you can contact me as i run a clinic up in the northeast that

specializes in adernals, thyroid and testosterone through treating the person

and the cause of the issue and not just symptoms. Dr J is a good at what he does

thats for sure, but every one has their opinons about dr's.

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