Guest guest Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I was on the creams and found one needs to shower first thing in the morning then do blood labs first then put the cream on. Best way to put on the cream with out using your hands is to apply it to your fore arm and then rub them together. Stop putting this on your testis your going to drive up your DHT to 3 to 4 x's above the top of your labs range and this can drive your prostate nuts. Doing labs just after putting on creams or gels will show a very high level the Testosterone is high the first 4 to 6 hrs after putting it on. You need to now how low you fall 24 hrs after using it. This is what makes one feel bad. I am betting your levels are not this high. Take the Indolplex/DIM at dinner time and get some TMG take this at bedtime some of it turns into samE and helps one sleep. TMG helps the liver wash out the E's that get converted from using Indlolplex/DIM makes it safer to use. After about 2 weeks or sooner you will get some night time and morning wood back so strong it can wake you up. This means your Estraidol levels are at there best level. About 20 pg/ml keep taking the indolplex/DIM but if your wood stops your driving your E2 down to low so when this happens stop the DIM until your wood comes back that day go back on it but cut the tablet in half. Getting your Estradiol down will free up bound up testosterone and bring down your SHBG levels making Free T higher. If you feel your Dr. is not doing a good job drive out to Mi. and see Dr. he only needs to see you once then he can test and treat you by Email. www.allthingsmale.com and this link is his forum. http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2 A lot of men fly or drive out to see him he is one of the best better to me then Shippen. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Mike Symth <alphadennis@...> > Subject: E2 to high. > > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 12:06 PM > I know this has been answered many > times on this group but let me ask again. My endo will > not prescribe Anastrozole. Is Indoplex Dim my next > choice? Indoplex DIM only has 30mg/pill(25% of 120mg) > What should my dose be? Also ChemOne Research sells > Anastrozole in liquid form- no prescription. Has > anyone used their product? Below are my stats. > Currently I use Testosterone creme made by University > Compounding Pharmacy = 100mg per daily pump. It's much > cheaper than Testim, smaller amount to apply, drys real fast > and is not sticky. Also apply a small dab from the 100 > mg, approx 25mg, to my ball. Life Extension Pharmacy is also > another good compounding pharmacy. > > My Stats 5/20/09 > T 1264 ng/dl <--too high am cutting back to just > 50mg/day > Free T 27.3 ng/dl > BioAvail T 598 ng/dl > SHGB 48.1 nmol/l <--High > E2 47 pg/ml <--High > Prolactin 62.9 ng/ml <--Way too high see below > Hematocrit 39.8 range(38-50%) > Hemoglobin 13.4 range(13-17.5) gm/dl > > My prolactin is high because I have a microadema pituitary > tumor. I'm currently taking cabergoline 3x a week. For those > with low T be sure to ask for a prolactin blood test. I > demanded the prolactin blood test from my urologist, who > wasn't going to test for it, after I read the book by the > Harvard MD, Morgentaler " Testosterone For Life " . Another > excellent book is by Shippen, " The Testosterone Syndrome " . > I'm in Chicago and it's tough to find a Doctor who believes > in Dr. Morgentaler's " Testosterone for Life " . My > urologist only wanted to test for Total T until I demanded > all the other tests. One urologist would not prescribe > Testim when my Total T reached 425 ng/dl which is way > low. So if any of you guys know of an enlightened endo > or urologist in Chicago please let me know. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 > > > From: Mike Symth <alphadennis@...> > > Subject: E2 to high. > > > > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 12:06 PM > > I know this has been answered many > > times on this group but let me ask again.� My endo will > > not prescribe Anastrozole. Is Indoplex Dim my next > > choice?� Indoplex DIM only has 30mg/pill(25% of 120mg) > > What should my dose be? Also ChemOne Research sells > > Anastrozole� in liquid form- no prescription. Has > > anyone used their product? Below are my stats.� > > Currently I use Testosterone creme made by University > > Compounding Pharmacy = 100mg per daily pump.� It's much > > cheaper than Testim, smaller amount to apply, drys real fast > > and is not sticky.� Also apply a small dab from the 100 > > mg, approx 25mg, to my ball. Life Extension Pharmacy is also > > another good compounding pharmacy. > > > > My Stats 5/20/09 > > T 1264 ng/dl <--too high am cutting back to just > > 50mg/day > > Free T 27.3 ng/dl > > BioAvail T 598 ng/dl > > SHGB 48.1 nmol/l <--High > > E2 47 pg/ml <--High > > Prolactin 62.9 ng/ml <--Way too high see below > > Hematocrit 39.8 range(38-50%) > > Hemoglobin 13.4 range(13-17.5) gm/dl > > > > My prolactin is high because I have a microadema pituitary > > tumor. I'm currently taking cabergoline 3x a week. For those > > with low T be sure to ask for a prolactin blood test. I > > demanded the prolactin blood test from my urologist, who > > wasn't going to test for it, after I read the book by the > > Harvard MD, Morgentaler " Testosterone For Life " . Another > > excellent book is by Shippen, " The Testosterone Syndrome " . > > I'm in Chicago and it's tough to find a Doctor who believes > > in Dr. Morgentaler's " Testosterone for Life " .� My > > urologist only wanted to test for Total T until I demanded > > all the other tests. One urologist would not prescribe > > Testim when my Total T reached 425 ng/dl which is way > > low.� So if any of you guys know of an enlightened endo > > or urologist in Chicago please let me know. > > > > Hey, I have a pituitary tumor as well and am currently using the liquid anastrozole to keep my E2 in range. I just switched to T injections(100ml/week) and had to up my anastrozole to 6 drops every other day. Wood seems to be good. For everyone with prolactinoma, here are some studies my gf found regarding pituitary disorders, going to talk to a psych about it on Monday. Read these studies, very interesting and something I had never heard of..... www.endocrinology.org/endocrinologist/083/083-Pituitary-PituitaryDiseaseThePatie\ ntsPerspective.pdf http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/17/2/159 I found this VERY informative! Jim > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Thanks for the Dr reference. I'm definitely going to make an appointment and drive out to lancing MI to see him. And thanks for the Indolplex DIM appl protocol. In your estimation/guess is Anastrozole that much superior to DIM? My labs were taken at 10am on 5/20/09 before I applied the T creme and my last T creme application was at 2pm the previous day. Because of my schedule I usually apply the T creme around noon everyday switching arms each day. My forearms are somewhat hairy not way hairy so you mean to apply to the underside of the forearms and rub those together? I only applied the dab of T Creme on my Testis because of a recommendation to do so in the book by Dr. Shippen referenced below. For DHT hair loss control I take Toco-8 by primordial performance 2x a day and I rub Nizoral 2% shampoo on my scalp 3x a week and let it sit for 2min in shower. For me this has stopped hair loss. > > > From: Mike Symth <alphadennis@...> > > Subject: E2 to high. > > > > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 12:06 PM > > I know this has been answered many > > times on this group but let me ask again.� My endo will > > not prescribe Anastrozole. Is Indoplex Dim my next > > choice?� Indoplex DIM only has 30mg/pill(25% of 120mg) > > What should my dose be? Also ChemOne Research sells > > Anastrozole� in liquid form- no prescription. Has > > anyone used their product? Below are my stats.� > > Currently I use Testosterone creme made by University > > Compounding Pharmacy = 100mg per daily pump.� It's much > > cheaper than Testim, smaller amount to apply, drys real fast > > and is not sticky.� Also apply a small dab from the 100 > > mg, approx 25mg, to my ball. Life Extension Pharmacy is also > > another good compounding pharmacy. > > > > My Stats 5/20/09 > > T 1264 ng/dl <--too high am cutting back to just > > 50mg/day > > Free T 27.3 ng/dl > > BioAvail T 598 ng/dl > > SHGB 48.1 nmol/l <--High > > E2 47 pg/ml <--High > > Prolactin 62.9 ng/ml <--Way too high see below > > Hematocrit 39.8 range(38-50%) > > Hemoglobin 13.4 range(13-17.5) gm/dl > > > > My prolactin is high because I have a microadema pituitary > > tumor. I'm currently taking cabergoline 3x a week. For those > > with low T be sure to ask for a prolactin blood test. I > > demanded the prolactin blood test from my urologist, who > > wasn't going to test for it, after I read the book by the > > Harvard MD, Morgentaler " Testosterone For Life " . Another > > excellent book is by Shippen, " The Testosterone Syndrome " . > > I'm in Chicago and it's tough to find a Doctor who believes > > in Dr. Morgentaler's " Testosterone for Life " .� My > > urologist only wanted to test for Total T until I demanded > > all the other tests. One urologist would not prescribe > > Testim when my Total T reached 425 ng/dl which is way > > low.� So if any of you guys know of an enlightened endo > > or urologist in Chicago please let me know. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Jim thanks for the reference very interesting. Doesn't apply to me though. > > > > > From: Mike Symth <alphadennis@> > > > Subject: E2 to high. > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 12:06 PM > > > I know this has been answered many > > > times on this group but let me ask again.� My endo will > > > not prescribe Anastrozole. Is Indoplex Dim my next > > > choice?� Indoplex DIM only has 30mg/pill(25% of 120mg) > > > What should my dose be? Also ChemOne Research sells > > > Anastrozole� in liquid form- no prescription. Has > > > anyone used their product? Below are my stats.� > > > Currently I use Testosterone creme made by University > > > Compounding Pharmacy = 100mg per daily pump.� It's much > > > cheaper than Testim, smaller amount to apply, drys real fast > > > and is not sticky.� Also apply a small dab from the 100 > > > mg, approx 25mg, to my ball. Life Extension Pharmacy is also > > > another good compounding pharmacy. > > > > > > My Stats 5/20/09 > > > T 1264 ng/dl <--too high am cutting back to just > > > 50mg/day > > > Free T 27.3 ng/dl > > > BioAvail T 598 ng/dl > > > SHGB 48.1 nmol/l <--High > > > E2 47 pg/ml <--High > > > Prolactin 62.9 ng/ml <--Way too high see below > > > Hematocrit 39.8 range(38-50%) > > > Hemoglobin 13.4 range(13-17.5) gm/dl > > > > > > My prolactin is high because I have a microadema pituitary > > > tumor. I'm currently taking cabergoline 3x a week. For those > > > with low T be sure to ask for a prolactin blood test. I > > > demanded the prolactin blood test from my urologist, who > > > wasn't going to test for it, after I read the book by the > > > Harvard MD, Morgentaler " Testosterone For Life " . Another > > > excellent book is by Shippen, " The Testosterone Syndrome " . > > > I'm in Chicago and it's tough to find a Doctor who believes > > > in Dr. Morgentaler's " Testosterone for Life " .� My > > > urologist only wanted to test for Total T until I demanded > > > all the other tests. One urologist would not prescribe > > > Testim when my Total T reached 425 ng/dl which is way > > > low.� So if any of you guys know of an enlightened endo > > > or urologist in Chicago please let me know. > > > > > > > Hey, I have a pituitary tumor as well and am currently using the liquid anastrozole to keep my E2 in range. I just switched to T injections(100ml/week) and had to up my anastrozole to 6 drops every other day. Wood seems to be good. > For everyone with prolactinoma, here are some studies my gf found regarding pituitary disorders, going to talk to a psych about it on Monday. Read these studies, very interesting and something I had never heard of..... > www.endocrinology.org/endocrinologist/083/083-Pituitary-PituitaryDiseaseThePatie\ ntsPerspective.pdf > > http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/17/2/159 > > I found this VERY informative! > > Jim > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Yes Anastroxole (Arimidex) is much better I tell men about Indolplex/DIM because most Dr.'s will not test this let alone give one Arimidex. I started with Indolplex/DIM because my Dr. was like this later he gave me Arimidex I am still using this now. With your Hematocrit and Hemoglobin as low as yours is do test your Ferritin levels I missed this and my levels were like yours and my Ferritin came in below normal. I have been on Iron pills 2 yrs now and I feel much better on it. Do test your DHT and stop putting the cream on your Testis Dr. Shippen dose not do this anymore. The book is dated he was down on shots in the book now he dose them to his self every 3 days. Yes I meant the inside of your fore arms if you see Dr. tell him I sent you this way you will know your going to get the full treatment. If you do Arimidex Dr. will tell you how to take it most just take a 1/4 of a one mg. pill every 3 days. This Dr. no is on the other end of the country and like Dr. one of the best. http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php Here is a cut and paste about Hormones and Lab pointers from his stickies. ======================================================================= DHEA: DHEA is important - but in the hierarchy of signals in the body, there are more important signals to consider improving first since otherwise DHEA is a minor player in a person's overall health. For example, in men, the following hormones are more important to address: thyroid, cortisol. If DHEA is greater than 200, I would address the other issues first. DHEA can go to estrone rather than testosterone or estradiol. Thus if DHEA levels are difficult to increase, then aside from elimination issues and absorption issues as previously discussed, the metabolism of DHEA is important to consider. If one has an overly active enzyme pathway that leads to DHEA being converted to Estrone, then one has a significant problem. Estrone is a pro-carcinogenic / pro-cancer estrogen. Taking DIM or iodine may help convert this to less carcinogenic estrogens. Addressing the overall impairment in adrenal function to help improve natural production of DHEA may be a better idea than adding more exogenous DHEA. In an older man, where the DHEA producing layer of the adrenal gland has thinned out due to aging, some DHEA supplementation may be necessary - so long as estrone production is minimized. ESTRADIOL: Different tests for estrogen will give you different levels of estradiol. The different protocols involved simply give different numbers. Given this scenario, one has to CHOOSE ONE of the tests and base their clinical decisions on the observations and experience with that one test. It is one's experience and observations, then, that would help determine the interpretation. For myself, I have found that the ultrasensitive estradiol is the most clinically useful test for estrogen signaling activity. This means whether or not estrogen is too high or too low in relationship to the other hormones, neurotransmitters, and other signals. This is particularly important for signals which are directly affected by estrogen: testosterone, thyroid hormone, serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine. The fractionated estrogens test is useful for determining possibly what is happening to estrogens or in the case of DHEA, where it is going. But a 24-hour urine hormone test - where many hormones and their metabolites are measured (such as done by Meridian Labs or Rhein labs) would tell you more about the pathways involved. GROWTH HORMONE: Growth hormone is generally the last hormone to optimize. This is because it potentially affects many of the other hormones negatively (such as thyroid and the adrenal hormones), causing more problems and complicating the clinical picture if it is added first. Additionally, and possibly more importantly, if one addresses the other hormones and neurotransmitters first, then the dose of growth hormone needed to improve function is LOWER and less costly. IGF-1 is one indirect way of measuring growth hormone. IGF-1 is increased by growth hormone, testosterone, DHEA, dopamine, thyroid hormone, among other signals. It is not purely determined by growth hormone. However, IGF-1 does the bulk of the work for growth hormone and is thus a valid measure of its activity. At what level of IGF-1 indicates growth hormone deficiency (the only legal indication for growth hormone treatment) is actually subjective. Anti-aging doctors, who want to optimize growth hormone levels, tend to use 250 as the lower end of the reference range for IGF-1. Some doctors use a lower level. For myself, 250 is a bit on the high end for a lower reference range. If it is closer to 150, I would consider growth hormone treatment. Growth hormone can improve a person's sense of well-being when used well. Improved mood, libido, energy can occur - once the other hormone and neurotransmitters are optimized. However, it may not prolong life. It may actually limit one's lifespan to about the 90s rather than letting one live past 100. Thus one has to assess whether one chooses to live well or live longer. THYROID HORMONE: A useful target if considering primarily lab tests for optimizing thyroid hormone is the following: TSH <= 1.0 Free T3 between 3.3 to 3.9 Total T4 between 8-12 If at least one lab test is below these ranges, then a person may exhibit signs of hypothyroidism. T4 levels are important since the brain does its own conversion of T4 to T3. The brain compartment can have different T4 and T3 levels than the rest of the body. The brain and body are in two different compartments, separated by the blood brain barrier. In Alzheimer's disease, brain thyroid levels are lower than the rest of the body. TSH is not as important a measurement compared to measuring Free T3 and Total T4. If a person has some metabolic problem - including having heart disease, diabetes, low iron, etc. then the nervous system cannot function well and TSH will be abnormally low since the brain will have difficulty monitoring thyroid hormone and making TSH. FERRITIN: Ferritin is the most important measure of iron. Iron in the body is mostly in hemoglobin and myoglobin. However, iron is also used by every single cell in the body as part of many enzymes. Many of the enzymes which participate in the citric acid cycle to generate ATP - the basic energy storage unit in the body - in mitochondria have iron in their structure. Ferritin gives one an idea of how much iron is available to the rest of the body's cells for metabolic purposes. Without iron, cells are significantly impaired in metabolic activity. They can't make enough ATP to do their activities. Thus, optimizing hormone, neurotransmitters and other signals doesn't work very well since they are only signals. They are signals to trigger cellular activities. But these activities cannot be done without ATP. An optimum iron level as measured by Ferritin in men is about 150. In women, it is about 100-120. These are mid-range values. A ferritin of 75, in one study, was found to be the lower end of normal for senior citizens. They can be even develop iron-deficiency anemia at that level of iron. Excessive iron is dangerous. It is highly oxidizing. It is destructive to tissues - causing cell death in the testes, ovaries, thyroid gland, liver, brain, etc. In testing Ferritin, I have surprisingly found a large number of patients, who have been treatment resistant, to have hemochromocytosis - a disease of excessive iron storage. CORTISOL: Outside of 's disease, where there is actual destruction of the adrenal glands, low cortisol and adrenal cortex output may occur from stress-related conditions. This has been called " Adrenal Fatigue " . However, in retrospect, I don't think this is a good term in that it implies something is wrong structurally with the adrenals - a bone of contention and misunderstanding. A better term is hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis dysregulation (HPA dysregulation, for short). Then the problem may lie anywhere from the nervous system, endocrine system, immune system, metabolism and nutrition, etc. Posttraumatic stress disorder is an example where there is hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis dysregulation, resulting in low cortisol. Frequently, in PTSD, I find cortisol levels around 6 and below. When I see such levels, I would inquire about a person's traumatic experiences. Cortisol treatment may help. The problem is that Cortisol treatment also slows down the output of the adrenal cortex - including DHEA, Pregnenolone, Progesterone, Testosterone, Estradiol, etc. These other signals also are important. They also can regulate mood. Thus in some people, it is not enough to add cortisol. It is also important to optimize the other adrenal hormones/signals to avoid causing mood dysregulation and other problems with a cortisol-alone treatment. Improving sleep is a huge help in improving adrenal cortex function. PREGNENOLONE: Pregnenolone is the most produced neurotransmitter in the brain. It is important for memory and attention. DHEA is the second most produced neurotransmitter in the brain. Pregnenolone is also produced by the adrenal glands. Pregnenolone treatment is a drop in the ocean when addressing low pregnenolone levels. Thus I don't expect levels to improve. But enough exogenous pregnenolone can improve memory and mood when at least some gets into the brain. It can also be metabolized to the other steroid hormones. Thus these may have to be monitored if problems occur. GLUCOSE: From a behavioral point of view, the optimal range for Glucose is between 93-100. They would have problems with gluconeogenesis or glycogenolysis usually secondary to impaired cortisol or thyroid hormone production, though metabolic issues such as low iron problems may cause this as well. CHOLESTEROL: The liver also does signal processing. The liver is the major signal ender for the long-distance fluid-transmitted signals in the body - e.g. the hormones. A signal needs to be ended as well as transmitted. The liver produces the major hormone binding proteins which then influence hormone signaling. These binding proteins also prolong the signals - causing them to be slow-release signals. The liver also monitors hormone status, such as the level of steroid hormones. When steroid hormone levels are low, the liver produces cholesterol from glucose. Cholesterol is the building block for the steroid hormones. Thus, a high cholesterol indicates one may have a hormone deficiency. Vitamin D is a steroid hormone. __________________ - Romeo B. no, MD, physician, psychiatrist Any information provided on www.definitivemind.com is for informational purposes only, is not medical advice, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability, is not exhaustive, does not cover all conditions or their treatment, and will change as knowledge progresses. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider before undertaking any diet, exercise, supplement, medical, or other health program. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Mike Symth <alphadennis@...> > Subject: Re: E2 to high. > > Date: Saturday, July 18, 2009, 1:28 PM > Thanks for the Dr > reference. I'm definitely going to make an appointment > and drive out to lancing MI to see him. And thanks for > the Indolplex DIM appl protocol. In your estimation/guess > is Anastrozole that much superior to DIM? > > My labs were taken at 10am on 5/20/09 before I applied the > T creme and my last T creme application was at 2pm the > previous day. Because of my schedule I usually apply > the T creme around noon everyday switching arms each day. My > forearms are somewhat hairy not way hairy so you mean to > apply to the underside of the forearms and rub those > together? > > I only applied the dab of T Creme on my Testis because of a > recommendation to do so in the book by Dr. Shippen > referenced below. > > For DHT hair loss control I take Toco-8 by primordial > performance 2x a day and I rub Nizoral 2% shampoo on my > scalp 3x a week and let it sit for 2min in shower. For me > this has stopped hair loss. > > > > > > > > From: Mike Symth <alphadennis@...> > > > Subject: E2 to high. > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 12:06 PM > > > I know this has been answered many > > > times on this group but let me ask again.� > My endo will > > > not prescribe Anastrozole. Is Indoplex Dim my > next > > > choice?� Indoplex DIM only has 30mg/pill(25% > of 120mg) > > > What should my dose be? Also ChemOne Research > sells > > > Anastrozole� in liquid form- no > prescription. Has > > > anyone used their product? Below are my > stats.� > > > Currently I use Testosterone creme made by > University > > > Compounding Pharmacy = 100mg per daily > pump.� It's much > > > cheaper than Testim, smaller amount to apply, > drys real fast > > > and is not sticky.� Also apply a small dab > from the 100 > > > mg, approx 25mg, to my ball. Life Extension > Pharmacy is also > > > another good compounding pharmacy. > > > > > > My Stats 5/20/09 > > > T 1264 ng/dl <--too high am cutting back to > just > > > 50mg/day > > > Free T 27.3 ng/dl > > > BioAvail T 598 ng/dl > > > SHGB 48.1 nmol/l <--High > > > E2 47 pg/ml <--High > > > Prolactin 62.9 ng/ml <--Way too high see > below > > > Hematocrit 39.8 range(38-50%) > > > Hemoglobin 13.4 range(13-17.5) gm/dl > > > > > > My prolactin is high because I have a microadema > pituitary > > > tumor. I'm currently taking cabergoline 3x a > week. For those > > > with low T be sure to ask for a prolactin blood > test. I > > > demanded the prolactin blood test from my > urologist, who > > > wasn't going to test for it, after I read the > book by the > > > Harvard MD, Morgentaler " Testosterone For Life " . > Another > > > excellent book is by Shippen, " The Testosterone > Syndrome " . > > > I'm in Chicago and it's tough to find a Doctor > who believes > > > in Dr. Morgentaler's " Testosterone for > Life " .� My > > > urologist only wanted to test for Total T until I > demanded > > > all the other tests. One urologist would not > prescribe > > > Testim when my Total T reached 425 ng/dl which is > way > > > low.� So if any of you guys know of an > enlightened endo > > > or urologist in Chicago please let me know. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Thanks for the references Philip. I'll be sure to tell Dr. that you sent me. I insisted that my Endo give me a complete hormone panel. On 2/27/09 at 11:47am (Quest Diagnostics) with no T application and no food for 24hrs here were my results. My Endo claimed they were normal. ACTH 15pg/ml Range(7-50) IGF-I 149 ng/ml range(75-228) TSH 3rd generation 2.77 mIU/L range(0.4-4.5) LH 3.0mIU/ml range(1.5-9.3) DHT 107ng/dl range(25-75)<--high Cortisol, A.M. 8.0mcg/dl At this earlier time than my 5/20 test my T results were: Testosterone 563 ng/dl BioAvailable T 89 ng/dl<- low SHBG 63 nmol/L range (17-54)<-High Albumin 4.5 g/dl range(3.6-5.1) Estradiol 47pg/ml range(13-54)<-to high even though in range Also T/E2 should be >20 from Shippen and thal book Prolactin 45.8ng/ml randge(2-18) notice my prolactin when up on 5/20. endo changed 0.5 mg cabergoline from 2x a week to 3x a week My start prolactin was 275ng/ml on 11/28/08!!! It's obvious that I need an endo who can optimize ALL. when I asked my endo for Arimidex to knock done my E2 she refused. When I told my urologist that my E2 was to high and I shoild have a T/E2 ratio of >20 he said >10 was good and no Arimidex. I referred him to Morgentaler's book with no avail. AND my urologist is the head of TRT at Northwestern Hosp in Chicago...go figure! > > > Yes Anastroxole (Arimidex) is much better I tell men about Indolplex/DIM because most Dr.'s will not test this let alone give one Arimidex. I started with Indolplex/DIM because my Dr. was like this later he gave me Arimidex I am still using this now. > > With your Hematocrit and Hemoglobin as low as yours is do test your Ferritin levels I missed this and my levels were like yours and my Ferritin came in below normal. I have been on Iron pills 2 yrs now and I feel much better on it. > > Do test your DHT and stop putting the cream on your Testis Dr. Shippen dose not do this anymore. The book is dated he was down on shots in the book now he dose them to his self every 3 days. > > Yes I meant the inside of your fore arms if you see Dr. tell him I sent you this way you will know your going to get the full treatment. > > If you do Arimidex Dr. will tell you how to take it most just take a 1/4 of a one mg. pill every 3 days. > > This Dr. no is on the other end of the country and like Dr. one of the best. > http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php > Here is a cut and paste about Hormones and Lab pointers from his stickies. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 17:43:53 -0000, you wrote: >Also T/E2 should be >20 from Shippen and thal book The idea od an ideal ratio has been abandoned by most doctors and by folks here. It's absolute E2 levels that matter. being in the 20 to 35 range seems ideal. If you go much lower or higher than that you will have adverse effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 I am sure Dr. will sort this all out your ACTH and Cortisol levels are dam low this in it's self will make one feel dam bad. And this Dr. is the head of TRT who did he pay to get this heading. As you get your Estradiol down so will your SHBG come down and this will free up bound Testosterone and will up your levels of Free T. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Mike Symth <alphadennis@...> > Subject: Re: E2 to high. > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 1:43 PM > Thanks for the references > Philip. I'll be sure to tell Dr. that you sent > me. > > I insisted that my Endo give me a complete hormone > panel. On 2/27/09 at 11:47am (Quest Diagnostics) with > no T application and no food for 24hrs here were my results. > My Endo claimed they were normal. > > ACTH 15pg/ml Range(7-50) > IGF-I 149 ng/ml range(75-228) > TSH 3rd generation 2.77 mIU/L range(0.4-4.5) > LH 3.0mIU/ml range(1.5-9.3) > DHT 107ng/dl range(25-75)<--high > Cortisol, A.M. 8.0mcg/dl > > At this earlier time than my 5/20 test my T results were: > Testosterone 563 ng/dl > BioAvailable T 89 ng/dl<- low > SHBG 63 nmol/L range (17-54)<-High > Albumin 4.5 g/dl range(3.6-5.1) > Estradiol 47pg/ml range(13-54)<-to high even though in > range > Also T/E2 should be >20 from Shippen and thal > book > Prolactin 45.8ng/ml randge(2-18) notice my prolactin when > up on 5/20. endo changed 0.5 mg cabergoline from 2x a > week to 3x a week > My start prolactin was 275ng/ml on 11/28/08!!! > > It's obvious that I need an endo who can optimize > ALL. when I asked my endo for Arimidex to knock done > my E2 she refused. When I told my urologist that my E2 > was to high and I shoild have a T/E2 ratio of >20 he said > >10 was good and no Arimidex. I referred him to > Morgentaler's book with no avail. AND my urologist is the > head of TRT at Northwestern Hosp in Chicago...go figure! > > > > > > > > > Yes Anastroxole (Arimidex) is much better I tell men > about Indolplex/DIM because most Dr.'s will not test this > let alone give one Arimidex. I started with > Indolplex/DIM because my Dr. was like this later he gave me > Arimidex I am still using this now. > > > > With your Hematocrit and Hemoglobin as low as yours is > do test your Ferritin levels I missed this and my levels > were like yours and my Ferritin came in below normal. > I have been on Iron pills 2 yrs now and I feel much better > on it. > > > > Do test your DHT and stop putting the cream on your > Testis Dr. Shippen dose not do this anymore. The book > is dated he was down on shots in the book now he dose them > to his self every 3 days. > > > > Yes I meant the inside of your fore arms if you see > Dr. tell him I sent you this way you will know your > going to get the full treatment. > > > > If you do Arimidex Dr. will tell you how to take > it most just take a 1/4 of a one mg. pill every 3 days. > > > > This Dr. no is on the other end of the country > and like Dr. one of the best. > > http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php > > Here is a cut and paste about Hormones and Lab > pointers from his stickies. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 > endo changed 0.5 mg cabergoline from 2x a week to 3x a week > My start prolactin was 275ng/ml on 11/28/08!!! Hi, cabergoline is supposed to have some " interesting " side effects on libido and refractory period... care to comment? > It's obvious that I need an endo who can optimize ALL. when I > asked my endo for Arimidex to knock done my E2 she refused. then there's http://www.alldaychemist.com they're reliable, cheap, etc... the standard starting dose seems to be about 1/4 tab every 3rd to every other day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 I've used alldaychemist and the stuff I've purchased from them is good. However the manufactures are in India so you don't know the purity standards. Thanks I'll check out their Arimidex Before I talk about cabergoline let me give my stats cause your " mileage may vary " . I'm 62, 6', 185lbs extremely fit and workout with weights 4 times a week. If I'm going into a hot weekend I'll take 1mg cabergoline Friday Morning. It usually takes, for me, a minimum of 12hrs to kick in. Since my prolatin is so high I'll take a 100mg viagra or 20mg vardenafil 2 to 3 hrs before sex. With this my wood comes right up and is strong without much stimulation. Because of my high prolactin my refractory period is about 4hrs. That makes it around 2-3am before I'm ready. Unfortunately my gf doesn't like to be woken up at 3am. However morning wood is there. If I take 1mg cabergoline on Friday it lasts through Sunday night. Warning...There have been reports of men who take 4-5mg per week for 3 to 6 months having heart value problems. these men had parkinsons disease. > > > endo changed 0.5 mg cabergoline from 2x a week to 3x a week > > My start prolactin was 275ng/ml on 11/28/08!!! > > Hi, > > cabergoline is supposed to have some " interesting " side effects on libido and refractory period... care to comment? > > > It's obvious that I need an endo who can optimize ALL. when I > > asked my endo for Arimidex to knock done my E2 she refused. > > then there's http://www.alldaychemist.com they're reliable, cheap, etc... the standard starting dose seems to be about 1/4 tab every 3rd to every other day. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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