Re: Phytoestrogens Use in Men

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike.

Phytoestrogens derived from soy have demonstrated the ability to enhance bone

density in postmenopausal women. Likewise, Xianling Gubao also seems to have

some research for increasing bone density in

postmenopausal women

(http://seekingalpha.com/article/52206-tongjitang-s-osteoperosis-drug-likely-to-\

win-fda-approval).

However, it is not clear what effect this would have on men, since

phytoestrogens could potentially compete with stronger estrogens for binding

receptors. It would probably depend on a man's level of estradiol. I'm

curious- have you had your estradiol tested?

~Xian

>

> Dear Forum,

> I am a male, 51 years old, with osteoporosis. The cause is low testosterone,

and I am on Testim, for this. I had been taking Fosamax also, and became

concerned about the long term effects, so I looked for an alternative. I found a

Chinese Herbal Medicine called Xianling Gubao. The traditional Chinese medicine

definition of mode of operation is that it " tonifies the kidney " . Lately, I

found out that the main component, an herbal root, is actually a powerful

phytoestrogen; a plant compound that acts like estrogen in the system. Can

anyone give me an idea of how this should affect my system? Should it help, or

hurt osteoporosis?

> Thank you so much!

> Sincerely,

> OsteoMike

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Xian,

Thank you for the reply!

I don't think I have had my estradiol tested; certainly not recently. I'll ask

my endo about this next time. I will have to be discrete, as he thinks I am on

Fosamax still. He would never approve of anything Chinese or Herbal.

Thanks!

Mike

> >

> > Dear Forum,

> > I am a male, 51 years old, with osteoporosis. The cause is low testosterone,

and I am on Testim, for this. I had been taking Fosamax also, and became

concerned about the long term effects, so I looked for an alternative. I found a

Chinese Herbal Medicine called Xianling Gubao. The traditional Chinese medicine

definition of mode of operation is that it " tonifies the kidney " . Lately, I

found out that the main component, an herbal root, is actually a powerful

phytoestrogen; a plant compound that acts like estrogen in the system. Can

anyone give me an idea of how this should affect my system? Should it help, or

hurt osteoporosis?

> > Thank you so much!

> > Sincerely,

> > OsteoMike

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Xian,

I forgot to ask: what are binding receptors? Would low estradiol be a good

thing?

Thanks!

> >

> > Dear Forum,

> > I am a male, 51 years old, with osteoporosis. The cause is low testosterone,

and I am on Testim, for this. I had been taking Fosamax also, and became

concerned about the long term effects, so I looked for an alternative. I found a

Chinese Herbal Medicine called Xianling Gubao. The traditional Chinese medicine

definition of mode of operation is that it " tonifies the kidney " . Lately, I

found out that the main component, an herbal root, is actually a powerful

phytoestrogen; a plant compound that acts like estrogen in the system. Can

anyone give me an idea of how this should affect my system? Should it help, or

hurt osteoporosis?

> > Thank you so much!

> > Sincerely,

> > OsteoMike

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Technical-

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen_receptor#Binding_and_functional_selectivi\

ty)

I should have said " estrogen receptors " rather than binding receptors.

Estrogen receptors (ER) can be ERalpha or ERbeta. The section referenced above

shows that genistein, a phytoestrogen from soy, can bind to the estrogen

receptor beta. (I'm not sure what type of phytoestrogen that Xianling Gubao

has/releases when ingested.)

My rudimentary understanding of phytoestrogens & their effect on receptors

paints genistein as a potential " plug " for some ERbeta " keyholes " , so estradiol

(which can bind to either alpha or beta ERs) & estriol might not be able bind to

those ERbeta receptors as easily, blocking their effects to some degree. (Feel

free to correct me if there's a better way to express this.)

Estradiol is considered the most potent human estrogen, whereas estriol is

considered the weakest. Low estradiol (below 15 pg/mL) in men may make

fractures more likely, as well as contributing to erectile dysfunction (though

above 30 pg/mL may likewise contribute to ED). It's a balancing game of keeping

primarily estradiol in a good range- 20-30 pg/mL. That's why lots of guys here

ask about a guy's estradiol level when someone presents with certain types of

problems (ED, anxiety, etc.).

~Xian

> > >

> > > Dear Forum,

> > > I am a male, 51 years old, with osteoporosis. The cause is low

testosterone, and I am on Testim, for this. I had been taking Fosamax also, and

became concerned about the long term effects, so I looked for an alternative. I

found a Chinese Herbal Medicine called Xianling Gubao. The traditional Chinese

medicine definition of mode of operation is that it " tonifies the kidney " .

Lately, I found out that the main component, an herbal root, is actually a

powerful phytoestrogen; a plant compound that acts like estrogen in the system.

Can anyone give me an idea of how this should affect my system? Should it help,

or hurt osteoporosis?

> > > Thank you so much!

> > > Sincerely,

> > > OsteoMike

> > >

> >

>