My testolevels are at the bottom range - What now?

[Guest guest]

Hello all,

I`m a young guy, 24 years old, from Norway. I have been lifting weights on and

off for 5-7 years now I guess, but I look relatively normally built despite my

far-above average efforts. Definitely not a bodybuilder look at all. Always had

a hard time gaining muscle, but easily put on fat. My strength is above average

though. I think my sexdrive has gradually gone lower since I finished puberty (I

was not a late bloomer btw).

I know that I have never been a testo-bomb, but I never suspected that I was

subject for hormonal treatment until just recently.

Since I`ve been feeling more zapped than normally the last weeks, I finally

decided to do the hormonal test that I have wanted to do for years (mostly

because most guys working out find it intersting).

I received the test from my doctor last week.

My testosterone levels and related hormones are all at the bottom range.

Especially FSH and LH is at the complete bottom range of what is considered

normal here in Norway. Meaning that one number lower would have been below the

range. The only thing positive is that my metabolism seems to be decent.

Still, my ignorant fool of a doctor says everything is normal and that there is

nothing to do.

My friend who sent me to this site said that my levels would qualify for

HRT-treatment in the USA.

This is Norway, and most people including me just recently, have no clue what

HRT or TRT is. Personally, I have a clue, but I have no idea of all the various

treatment methods.

I already do all the healthy things that is supposed to promote higher levels.

Good diet, low stress, lots of sleep, etc. Perhaps that is what has kept me at

least normal all these years.

It should be mentioned that leading up to the time I took this test, I was on a

intermittent fasting diet with a calorie-deficit for some weeks, which may have

helped pushed the levels further down. Still, not as much to make a huge

difference in my opinion. In other words, it was not an extreme diet.

The last weeks I`ve been eating on a calorie deficit with lots of fat in my

diet, but there is not a huge difference. Perhaps more energy and well being,

but sexdrive is still very low.

In hindsight, I remember feeling very zapped when I worked as a carpenter, but

now I realize that perhaps I had low levels already then and that low testo

levels might have been much of the reason for my tiredness when I instead

thought I just was exhausted from physical work.

5 years ago or so, I had some issues with anxiety attacks and eventually

depression. What led me to this was a continued lack of sleep for years (coffee

was my best friend), being severely overworked, always working on goals and

postponing fun and play, worries, still maintaining a rigid workout schedule,

hard on diet, etc.

Could it be that this hectic period of my life caused adrenal fatigue and that I

never recovered?

I`ve always been kind of an overachiever, so I might have pushed my body too

hard over the years.

This has changed dramatically. When I became sick I had to change a lot of

things in my life, and I could honestly say that I`m a very different person

today. I still like to set goals and reach them, but I`m not killing myself in

the process. I try to respect my body and prett much always sleeps 8 hours a

night. Low stress levels. I also do not work as a carpenter anymore.

My doctor in the public sector won`t help me as he says everything is completely

normal.

I just recently booked an appointment with a famous andrologist here in Norway

in the private sector that is known to be understanding and helpful with such

issues.

In the meantime, it would be awesome if any of you guys have any advice or

experience to share.

Being dependent on drugs for life seems scary, but I`m definitely not feeling

like being this zapped for the rest of my life either.

Read: Tired, low returns on my efforts in the gym and diet, close to zero

sexdrive, almost never morning erections.

I do however have a beard and I am able to gain strength in the gym, so I`m not

a complete eunuch.

The best would have been if there is a treatment that could help get my engines

running again so to speak, but I don`t know if that exists.

If I was 50-60 years old, I would not have hesitated at all, but it scares me to

become dependent on external testosterone at this age.

I`m also drawing some parallells from when I experienced strong depression and

anxiety. My doctor prescribed antidepressants before I was finished talking

about my situation and talked about it like it was candy. Luckily, I did not

touch the stuff and managed to get completely well on my own instead of becoming

dependent on a drug.

If I can get my production in motion without life-long treatment, I would go for

that.

I can post the lab results later if anyone is interested.

Thank you all very much in advance,

All help is highly appreciated.

Best regards,

Elijah

[Guest guest]

>

> Hello all,

>

> I`m a young guy, 24 years old, from Norway. I have been lifting weights on and

off for 5-7 years now I guess, but I look relatively normally built despite my

far-above average efforts. Definitely not a bodybuilder look at all. Always had

a hard time gaining muscle, but easily put on fat. My strength is above average

though. I think my sexdrive has gradually gone lower since I finished puberty (I

was not a late bloomer btw).

>

> I know that I have never been a testo-bomb, but I never suspected that I was

subject for hormonal treatment until just recently.

>

> Since I`ve been feeling more zapped than normally the last weeks, I finally

decided to do the hormonal test that I have wanted to do for years (mostly

because most guys working out find it intersting).

>

> I received the test from my doctor last week.

>

> My testosterone levels and related hormones are all at the bottom range.

Especially FSH and LH is at the complete bottom range of what is considered

normal here in Norway. Meaning that one number lower would have been below the

range. The only thing positive is that my metabolism seems to be decent.

>

> Still, my ignorant fool of a doctor says everything is normal and that there

is nothing to do.

>

> My friend who sent me to this site said that my levels would qualify for

HRT-treatment in the USA.

>

> This is Norway, and most people including me just recently, have no clue what

HRT or TRT is. Personally, I have a clue, but I have no idea of all the various

treatment methods.

>

> I already do all the healthy things that is supposed to promote higher levels.

Good diet, low stress, lots of sleep, etc. Perhaps that is what has kept me at

least normal all these years.

>

> It should be mentioned that leading up to the time I took this test, I was on

a intermittent fasting diet with a calorie-deficit for some weeks, which may

have helped pushed the levels further down. Still, not as much to make a huge

difference in my opinion. In other words, it was not an extreme diet.

>

> The last weeks I`ve been eating on a calorie deficit with lots of fat in my

diet, but there is not a huge difference. Perhaps more energy and well being,

but sexdrive is still very low.

>

> In hindsight, I remember feeling very zapped when I worked as a carpenter, but

now I realize that perhaps I had low levels already then and that low testo

levels might have been much of the reason for my tiredness when I instead

thought I just was exhausted from physical work.

>

> 5 years ago or so, I had some issues with anxiety attacks and eventually

depression. What led me to this was a continued lack of sleep for years (coffee

was my best friend), being severely overworked, always working on goals and

postponing fun and play, worries, still maintaining a rigid workout schedule,

hard on diet, etc.

>

> Could it be that this hectic period of my life caused adrenal fatigue and that

I never recovered?

>

> I`ve always been kind of an overachiever, so I might have pushed my body too

hard over the years.

>

> This has changed dramatically. When I became sick I had to change a lot of

things in my life, and I could honestly say that I`m a very different person

today. I still like to set goals and reach them, but I`m not killing myself in

the process. I try to respect my body and prett much always sleeps 8 hours a

night. Low stress levels. I also do not work as a carpenter anymore.

>

> My doctor in the public sector won`t help me as he says everything is

completely normal.

>

> I just recently booked an appointment with a famous andrologist here in Norway

in the private sector that is known to be understanding and helpful with such

issues.

>

> In the meantime, it would be awesome if any of you guys have any advice or

experience to share.

>

> Being dependent on drugs for life seems scary, but I`m definitely not feeling

like being this zapped for the rest of my life either.

>

> Read: Tired, low returns on my efforts in the gym and diet, close to zero

sexdrive, almost never morning erections.

>

> I do however have a beard and I am able to gain strength in the gym, so I`m

not a complete eunuch.

>

> The best would have been if there is a treatment that could help get my

engines running again so to speak, but I don`t know if that exists.

>

> If I was 50-60 years old, I would not have hesitated at all, but it scares me

to become dependent on external testosterone at this age.

>

> I`m also drawing some parallells from when I experienced strong depression and

anxiety. My doctor prescribed antidepressants before I was finished talking

about my situation and talked about it like it was candy. Luckily, I did not

touch the stuff and managed to get completely well on my own instead of becoming

dependent on a drug.

>

> If I can get my production in motion without life-long treatment, I would go

for that.

>

> I can post the lab results later if anyone is interested.

>

> Thank you all very much in advance,

>

> All help is highly appreciated.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Elijah

>

Dear ny

have been reading what u have just told us.

I would like u to write me on my e-mail

bg381@....

then I can help u.

i am a klinbeflerter male of 70 yo,

have been on Testogel 50 mg/day

it is very good for me i may say, maybe u shall try it to

liveing south sweden, u can write in norsk as well in english

see u soon

Regards

BG

[Guest guest]

Hello Elijah. Thanks for posting.

I think you can find some excellent info from the guys here. Just feel free to

ask.

Posting your lab results would be a good starting point. Some of the symptoms

you describe, like difficulty gaining muscle, fatigue, low sex drive, etc. can

be caused by various hormones, & often the symptoms of one condition mirror many

of the conditions of another.

As you suggested, perhaps your results would qualify you for treatment here,

though sometimes different labs & reference ranges are due to lab machinery

differences. (Or so I heard from a lab technician in the UK.)

Your doctor needs to take your report about not having morning wood seriously.

The scenario you describe (of being overworked) could account for your low T

now. But this is particularly interesting, as you mention your LH & FSH at the

bottom of the range. Have you suffered any head injuries? A head injury could

cause damage to your pituitary gland, reducing in lowered testosterone. Another

pituitary concern is the pituitary hormone Prolactin, which can suppress

testosterone when prolactin levels are too high. Did you have your prolactin

level tested? (When you post your lab results, I can also mention other lab

tests worth exploring if they weren't covered this time.)

I'm also concerned in light of your occupation. When did you stop working as a

carpenter? During your work, did you paint or have exposure to paint thinner

that was still drying? Exposure to paint thinner has been demonstrated to lower

testosterone levels.

Depending on how much you reduced your caloric consumption, that may also have

played a role in reduced testosterone production.

It's unfortunate that having " borderline " lab results makes you " normal " & hence

not " suitable " to receive treatment. It's ironic that if you paid a little less

attention to good health practices like getting enough sleep, you'd probably

qualify for treatment in your country.

Treatment for life isn't so bad, especially if you can't function now due to

hormone imbalance. (Personally, I think testosterone replacement therapy is

easier than diabetic management.) There are a variety of hormone replacement

methods, ranging from shots, to pellets, to gels & creams. But, if your

adrenals are fatigued, you might be able to address this problem & bring your

testosterone levels up without going on TRT for life.

By the way, you may have heard of an excellent Dr. in Belgium named Dr. Thierry

Hertoghe. He's one of the best endocrinologists in Europe. Also, Dr.

Crisler & Dr. Romeo no are highly recommended in the US, should you decide

to find treatment here. Dr. has quite a few international patients.

Hope you can find a solution soon.

~Xian

>

> Hello all,

>

> I`m a young guy, 24 years old, from Norway. I have been lifting weights on and

off for 5-7 years now I guess, but I look relatively normally built despite my

far-above average efforts. Definitely not a bodybuilder look at all. Always had

a hard time gaining muscle, but easily put on fat. My strength is above average

though. I think my sexdrive has gradually gone lower since I finished puberty (I

was not a late bloomer btw).

>

> I know that I have never been a testo-bomb, but I never suspected that I was

subject for hormonal treatment until just recently.

>

> Since I`ve been feeling more zapped than normally the last weeks, I finally

decided to do the hormonal test that I have wanted to do for years (mostly

because most guys working out find it intersting).

>

> I received the test from my doctor last week.

>

> My testosterone levels and related hormones are all at the bottom range.

Especially FSH and LH is at the complete bottom range of what is considered

normal here in Norway. Meaning that one number lower would have been below the

range. The only thing positive is that my metabolism seems to be decent.

>

> Still, my ignorant fool of a doctor says everything is normal and that there

is nothing to do.

>

> My friend who sent me to this site said that my levels would qualify for

HRT-treatment in the USA.

>

> This is Norway, and most people including me just recently, have no clue what

HRT or TRT is. Personally, I have a clue, but I have no idea of all the various

treatment methods.

>

> I already do all the healthy things that is supposed to promote higher levels.

Good diet, low stress, lots of sleep, etc. Perhaps that is what has kept me at

least normal all these years.

>

> It should be mentioned that leading up to the time I took this test, I was on

a intermittent fasting diet with a calorie-deficit for some weeks, which may

have helped pushed the levels further down. Still, not as much to make a huge

difference in my opinion. In other words, it was not an extreme diet.

>

> The last weeks I`ve been eating on a calorie deficit with lots of fat in my

diet, but there is not a huge difference. Perhaps more energy and well being,

but sexdrive is still very low.

>

> In hindsight, I remember feeling very zapped when I worked as a carpenter, but

now I realize that perhaps I had low levels already then and that low testo

levels might have been much of the reason for my tiredness when I instead

thought I just was exhausted from physical work.

>

> 5 years ago or so, I had some issues with anxiety attacks and eventually

depression. What led me to this was a continued lack of sleep for years (coffee

was my best friend), being severely overworked, always working on goals and

postponing fun and play, worries, still maintaining a rigid workout schedule,

hard on diet, etc.

>

> Could it be that this hectic period of my life caused adrenal fatigue and that

I never recovered?

>

> I`ve always been kind of an overachiever, so I might have pushed my body too

hard over the years.

>

> This has changed dramatically. When I became sick I had to change a lot of

things in my life, and I could honestly say that I`m a very different person

today. I still like to set goals and reach them, but I`m not killing myself in

the process. I try to respect my body and prett much always sleeps 8 hours a

night. Low stress levels. I also do not work as a carpenter anymore.

>

> My doctor in the public sector won`t help me as he says everything is

completely normal.

>

> I just recently booked an appointment with a famous andrologist here in Norway

in the private sector that is known to be understanding and helpful with such

issues.

>

> In the meantime, it would be awesome if any of you guys have any advice or

experience to share.

>

> Being dependent on drugs for life seems scary, but I`m definitely not feeling

like being this zapped for the rest of my life either.

>

> Read: Tired, low returns on my efforts in the gym and diet, close to zero

sexdrive, almost never morning erections.

>

> I do however have a beard and I am able to gain strength in the gym, so I`m

not a complete eunuch.

>

> The best would have been if there is a treatment that could help get my

engines running again so to speak, but I don`t know if that exists.

>

> If I was 50-60 years old, I would not have hesitated at all, but it scares me

to become dependent on external testosterone at this age.

>

> I`m also drawing some parallells from when I experienced strong depression and

anxiety. My doctor prescribed antidepressants before I was finished talking

about my situation and talked about it like it was candy. Luckily, I did not

touch the stuff and managed to get completely well on my own instead of becoming

dependent on a drug.

>

> If I can get my production in motion without life-long treatment, I would go

for that.

>

> I can post the lab results later if anyone is interested.

>

> Thank you all very much in advance,

>

> All help is highly appreciated.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Elijah

>

[Guest guest]

Xian,

Thank you very much for writing.

I have already read many of the older threads and I`m impressed by the knowledge

and kindness of the people involved here.

Just to clarify, I am not overworked now at all. That was in the past when I

worked as a carpenter.

I think I am pretty much doing all the good things to promote high natural

levels; good sleep every night, low stress levels, good diet, working out with

weights 3X week, etc.

What I`m lacking in my diet though is women and sex. I`m curious though, if the

reason for this lack is just as much the fact that I don`t have the drive in the

first place. Catch 22.

Also, I`ve been experiening some social isolation the last year since I have

been studying some subjects on my own out of school. Still, I`m not depressed or

anything. Personally, I don`t think I could blame this for my low levels, as in

hindsight I do believe I have had less than optimal levels for a while. Still,

it is worth mentioning though.

I have not tested prolactin. The test was just a very basic one I guess.

As far as I`m aware of and can remember, I have never had any head injuries. No

concussions ever I think.

I stopped working in my old job as a carpenter last summer, even though I`ve

been doing some work for my parents.

No contact with paint thinner as far as I`m aware of.

My calories were reduced for 7 weeks totally I think. In the beginning it was

only weights and light walks. I gradually increased cardio and lowered calories

more in the last 3 weeks, but it was never anything close to an extreme diet.

I have since eaten well on a surplus, and actually regained much of my weight

and surpassed my old strength levels slightly. It seemed to do good for my

well-being and state for a while, but now I`m feeling pretty much without drive

once again.

If it is my adrenals that are fatigued, do you know what the treatment for this

could be?

Thanks for mentioning those doctors. I have not heard of the guy in Europe, but

I recognize the name of Dr. from this forum:)

If I had the necessary money, I guess I would have taken the first flight to the

USA and have things sorted out.

Unfortunately, as a student, money is a little tight these days.

I will post the lab results in a separate post.

Thanks again,

Elijah

[Guest guest]

I`m not listing creatinine and cholesterol as these were good. If anyone thinks

these are releveant though, I will post them. I`m listing ferritine though, as

this was above the normal range. The doctor did not comment it though.

The normal range is on the right side of the *.

LAB RESULTS:

PS-FERRITIN 337 * 20-250

PS-T3-FREE: 3.8 * 2.6 - 5.7

PS-T4-FREE 12 * 9 - 24

PS-TSH 1.22 * 0.35 - 4.70

PS-ANTI-TPO <3 * 0 - 15

PS-CORTISOL 264

PS-OSTRADIOL <0,07* 0.04 - 0.18

PS-FSH 2 * 1 - 12

PS-LH 2 * 2 - 12

PS-SHBG 36 * 13 - 60

PS-TESTOSTERON 14.9 * 10.0 - 40.0

[Guest guest]

I have seen this time and time again in young men over training living a high

stress life. You need to be checked for adrenal fatigue, thyroid, testosterone

and so on. Do the labs on a normal diet. Here is a link to tests I tell men to

get add to this Total T3 and T4.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=7059

This link is about your adrenals.

http://www.tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html

There is a lot you will need to do if you have AF a big life change is needed.

Your young and if you treat this in time your adrenals will start working again.

This is a good link also.

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/adrenals_thyroid.html

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: johnnypilskog <johnnypilskog@...>

> Subject: My testolevels are at the bottom range - What now?

>

> Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 8:10 AM

> Hello all,

>

> I`m a young guy, 24 years old, from Norway. I have been

> lifting weights on and off for 5-7 years now I guess, but I

> look relatively normally built despite my far-above average

> efforts. Definitely not a bodybuilder look at all. Always

> had a hard time gaining muscle, but easily put on fat. My

> strength is above average though. I think my sexdrive has

> gradually gone lower since I finished puberty (I was not a

> late bloomer btw).

>

> I know that I have never been a testo-bomb, but I never

> suspected that I was subject for hormonal treatment until

> just recently.

>

> Since I`ve been feeling more zapped than normally the last

> weeks, I finally decided to do the hormonal test that I have

> wanted to do for years (mostly because most guys working out

> find it intersting).

>

> I received the test from my doctor last week.

>

> My testosterone levels and related hormones are all at the

> bottom range. Especially FSH and LH is at the complete

> bottom range of what is considered normal here in Norway.

> Meaning that one number lower would have been below the

> range. The only thing positive is that my metabolism seems

> to be decent.

>

> Still, my ignorant fool of a doctor says everything is

> normal and that there is nothing to do.

>

> My friend who sent me to this site said that my levels

> would qualify for HRT-treatment in the USA.

>

> This is Norway, and most people including me just recently,

> have no clue what HRT or TRT is. Personally, I have a clue,

> but I have no idea of all the various treatment methods.

>

> I already do all the healthy things that is supposed to

> promote higher levels. Good diet, low stress, lots of sleep,

> etc. Perhaps that is what has kept me at least normal all

> these years.

>

> It should be mentioned that leading up to the time I took

> this test, I was on a intermittent fasting diet with a

> calorie-deficit for some weeks, which may have helped pushed

> the levels further down. Still, not as much to make a huge

> difference in my opinion. In other words, it was not an

> extreme diet.

>

> The last weeks I`ve been eating on a calorie deficit with

> lots of fat in my diet, but there is not a huge difference.

> Perhaps more energy and well being, but sexdrive is still

> very low.

>

> In hindsight, I remember feeling very zapped when I worked

> as a carpenter, but now I realize that perhaps I had low

> levels already then and that low testo levels might have

> been much of the reason for my tiredness when I instead

> thought I just was exhausted from physical work.

>

> 5 years ago or so, I had some issues with anxiety attacks

> and eventually depression. What led me to this was a

> continued lack of sleep for years (coffee was my best

> friend), being severely overworked, always working on goals

> and postponing fun and play, worries, still maintaining a

> rigid workout schedule, hard on diet, etc.

>

> Could it be that this hectic period of my life caused

> adrenal fatigue and that I never recovered?

>

> I`ve always been kind of an overachiever, so I might have

> pushed my body too hard over the years.

>

> This has changed dramatically. When I became sick I had to

> change a lot of things in my life, and I could honestly say

> that I`m a very different person today. I still like to set

> goals and reach them, but I`m not killing myself in the

> process. I try to respect my body and prett much always

> sleeps 8 hours a night. Low stress levels. I also do not

> work as a carpenter anymore.

>

> My doctor in the public sector won`t help me as he says

> everything is completely normal.

>

> I just recently booked an appointment with a famous

> andrologist here in Norway in the private sector that is

> known to be understanding and helpful with such issues.

>

> In the meantime, it would be awesome if any of you guys

> have any advice or experience to share.

>

> Being dependent on drugs for life seems scary, but I`m

> definitely not feeling like being this zapped for the rest

> of my life either.

>

> Read: Tired, low returns on my efforts in the gym and diet,

> close to zero sexdrive, almost never morning erections.

>

> I do however have a beard and I am able to gain strength in

> the gym, so I`m not a complete eunuch.

>

> The best would have been if there is a treatment that could

> help get my engines running again so to speak, but I don`t

> know if that exists.

>

> If I was 50-60 years old, I would not have hesitated at

> all, but it scares me to become dependent on external

> testosterone at this age.

>

> I`m also drawing some parallells from when I experienced

> strong depression and anxiety. My doctor prescribed

> antidepressants before I was finished talking about my

> situation and talked about it like it was candy. Luckily, I

> did not touch the stuff and managed to get completely well

> on my own instead of becoming dependent on a drug.

>

> If I can get my production in motion without life-long

> treatment, I would go for that.

>

> I can post the lab results later if anyone is interested.

>

> Thank you all very much in advance,

>

> All help is highly appreciated.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Elijah

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the links Phil. I will read them later tonight.

I wrote two replies earlier today that is not visible yet. Did something happen?

Best regards,

Elijah

[Guest guest]

I can't say I am doing very little on the forum after heart surgary and being

out cold 17 weeks my mind is still not right still working on this.

So I don't approve new posts as of now.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: johnnypilskog <johnnypilskog@...>

> Subject: Re: My testolevels are at the bottom range - What now?

>

> Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 2:11 PM

> Thanks for the links Phil. I will read them later tonight.

>

> I wrote two replies earlier today that is not visible yet.

> Did something happen?

>

> Best regards,

>

> Elijah

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

There was a mistake in my initial post.

What I meant to write was that I have been eating on a calorie surplus for the

last month or so with much more fat (important for testoproduction I`ve read)

than usual.

In the beginning, it seemed to have a good effect on my well-being, energy

levels and some increased sex-drive, but now it seems to have calmed down.

If any moderators read this, it would be nice if they could switch deficit with

surplus.

Thanks again,

Elijah

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I can't say I am doing very little on the forum after heart surgary and being

out cold 17 weeks my mind is still not right still working on this.

>

> So I don't approve new posts as of now.

>

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

Seems like they showed up after all, so it`s ok.

Thanks again Phil and good recovery!

All the best,

Elijah

[Guest guest]

Phil, have you tried any of the noots, like piracetam or aniracetam? DMAE?

Choline Cocktail by Twinlab? Perhaps they'd help. Sorry for your troubles, dude.

You've been a great mod.

>

> > From: johnnypilskog <johnnypilskog@...>

> > Subject: Re: My testolevels are at the bottom range - What

now?

> >

> > Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 2:11 PM

> > Thanks for the links Phil. I will read them later tonight.

> >

> > I wrote two replies earlier today that is not visible yet.

> > Did something happen?

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Elijah

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm no doctor but your low FSH and LH may be pointing to hypopituitary problems.

I would also look into the high iron levels too. Possible hemochromatosis.

________________________________

From: johnnypilskog <johnnypilskog@...>

Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 2:59:43 AM

Subject: Re: My testolevels are at the bottom range - What now?

I`m not listing creatinine and cholesterol as these were good. If anyone thinks

these are releveant though, I will post them. I`m listing ferritine though, as

this was above the normal range. The doctor did not comment it though.

The normal range is on the right side of the *.

LAB RESULTS:

PS-FERRITIN 337 * 20-250

PS-T3-FREE: 3.8 * 2.6 - 5.7

PS-T4-FREE 12 * 9 - 24

PS-TSH 1.22 * 0.35 - 4.70

PS-ANTI-TPO <3 * 0 - 15

PS-CORTISOL 264

PS-OSTRADIOL <0,07* 0.04 - 0.18

PS-FSH 2 * 1 - 12

PS-LH 2 * 2 - 12

PS-SHBG 36 * 13 - 60

PS-TESTOSTERON 14.9 * 10.0 - 40.0

[Guest guest]

> What I`m lacking in my diet though is women and sex. I`m curious

> though, if the reason for this lack is just as much the fact that I

> don`t have the drive in the first place. Catch 22.

Hi,

low test will tend to cut all sorts of DRIVE...

with your test levels in the TOP 10% you'll work the weight harder... and you'll

work the ladies harder too ;-}

> My calories were reduced for 7 weeks totally I think.

why?

to build muscle you've got to have both a protein and calorie SURPLUS (and

sufficient test) as I recall your test levels were LOW... and there's no point

in a cutting cycle if you don't have the muscles to cut down to (bulking before

cutting)

quite frankly going on Test cut my body fat significantly since those protein

calories can now go to build muscle... they're not just calories...

> I have since eaten well on a surplus, and actually regained much of

> my weight and surpassed my old strength levels slightly. It seemed

> to do good for my well-being and state for a while, but now I`m

> feeling pretty much without drive once again.

are your test levels still LOW?

get your test levels back in line and go for 2 grams of protein per kilo of body

weight.

ttyl

[Guest guest]

Thanks but no I can't take anything without my Dr.'s approval and he tells me

not to take any supplements for the rest of this yr. He says it will take this

long for my blood to rebuild from all that I lost and for me to fully recover.

I am doing mind therapy to get my thinking working it's going to take some time.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: jimevans_2000 <jimevans_2000@...>

> Subject: Re: My testolevels are at the bottom range - What now?

>

> Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 4:20 PM

> Phil, have you tried any of the noots, like piracetam or

> aniracetam? DMAE? Choline Cocktail by Twinlab? Perhaps

> they'd help. Sorry for your troubles, dude. You've

> been a great mod.

>

>

> >

> > > From: johnnypilskog <johnnypilskog@...>

> > > Subject: Re: My testolevels are at

> the bottom range - What now?

> > >

> > > Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 2:11 PM

> > > Thanks for the links Phil. I will read them later

> tonight.

> > >

> > > I wrote two replies earlier today that is not

> visible yet.

> > > Did something happen?

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > >

> > > Elijah

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

> > My calories were reduced for 7 weeks totally I think.

>

> why?

Because I had gained too much bodyfat and needed to loose some. I had probably

been bulking for 8 months or so before I started this diet. Actually, I was

successful in loosing some fat, but I quit the diet because I was somewhat

satisfied and also the fact that my tests got back by then with low results and

I was feeling shitty as well.

I have a history with having a hard time gaining muscle and relatively easily

gaining fat. Could indicate low testolevels I guess.

> are your test levels still LOW?

>

> get your test levels back in line and go for 2 grams of protein per kilo of

body weight.

I really can`t say for sure. Most days/weeks it still feels low, but then there

are some days when it seems like my levels are higher.

When I started eating on a surplus with lots of fat after the diet and with less

cardio, I felt some increase in energy and drive. Not HIGH drive by any means,

but definitely better than nothing.

Now things seems to have stabilized themselves and lowered again. I experience

days where I am low energy, tired even though sleeping well and close to zero

drive.

Today however, I have been feeling much hornier than usual. Definitely more

drive and energy. Still, I fear that it is not here to stay.

Tomorrow I will talk to an andrologist on the phone. My last hope here in

Norway. I`m curious in regards to what he says about my situation.

Thanks for writing,

Regards,

Elijah

[Guest guest]

What have you been eating for your fat intake ?

Elrick

> From: johnnypilskog <johnnypilskog@...>

> Subject: Re: My testolevels are at the bottom range - What now?

>

> Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 7:39 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> There was a mistake in my initial post.

>

>

>

> What I meant to write was that I have been eating on a

> calorie surplus for the last month or so with much more fat

> (important for testoproduction I`ve read) than usual.

>

>

>

> In the beginning, it seemed to have a good effect on my

> well-being, energy levels and some increased sex-drive, but

> now it seems to have calmed down.

>

>

>

> If any moderators read this, it would be nice if they could

> switch deficit with surplus.

>

>

>

> Thanks again,

>

>

>

> Elijah

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When dieting on a deficit, it was pretty much just the natural fat from meat,

dairy fat in cottage cheese, olive oil, and low doses of fish oil. The diet was

made by someone else, and it was too low on fat for my preferences.

Since then, I`ve been eating as I usually do, but I did perhaps try to make a

point the first weeks after the diet.

Lots of whole eggs, some whole milk, almonds, cashewnuts, lots of fish oil, red

meat, olive oil when cooking, butter, etc.

> What have you been eating for your fat intake ?

>

> Elrick

[Guest guest]

Guys,

I just wanted to mention this.

Today I`ve been feeling much better. I hope you guys don`t mind me being graphic

and detailed, but I have masturbated twice today.

On Monday, Sunday, Saturday, and perhaps the rest of the last week as well, I

have not felt any sexuality in my body whatsoever. Tiredness might not have been

so bad all the time, but I really have not felt that urge or sexuality in my

body so to speak. I can look at a woman and find her beautiful and wish to be

with her, but there has been no sexuality or lust present.

Tomorrow though, I had to rise after 6 1/2 - 7 hours of sleep, and upon

awakening, I noticed that I had a 50% boner or so.

Something was feeling different in my body. I had a plump dick throughout the

day. Like a 5-10% erection consistently, so to speak. Not the flaccid lifeless

dick that I have normally.

Is this not a sign that my levels have been higher today?

The sorry thing though, is that I have had days like this in the last month as

well, but then it goes back to periods of low-drive.

I just thought it was worth mentioning.

To my awareness, there is nothing special I do when these days occur.

Thanks,

Elijah

[Guest guest]

Okay, this is a good start for figuring out what's going on. Could you also

post the units of measurement alongside the reference range & results? There

are some tests & lab techniques that produce results which do not equate to US

lab tests even when converted to units used in America. This will help, since

I'm best acquainted with US reference ranges.

I'm guessing that the results for your total testosterone test below are in

nmol/L. So 14.9 nmol/L = 429 ng/dL. This is still above the bottom of any

American reference range for total testosterone (Arup labs: 400-1200 ng/dL;

Labcorp 250-850 ng/dL), & the reference range considered " normal " by the

American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (300-1000 ng/dL). Admittedly,

your level is *low* " normal " .

I'm not very good at converting other units to/from SI units, so I'll hazard a

guess that might require correction: .04 -.18 pmol/L estradiol = 10-50 pg/mL

estradiol. If this is correct, your result of .07 pmol/L (19 pg/mL) is quite

close to " optimal " range (20-30 pg/mL).

What is the reference range for the cortisol test you took? I see a result but

no reference range. If the units of cortisol are reported in nmol/L, then 264

nmol/L = 9.56 mcg/dL (reference range of 4.3-22.4 mcg/dL for morning test,

according to my Labcorp test). As you might have read already, the cortisol

reference range pertains mostly to severe cortisol abnormalities (Cushing's

disease or 's disease), not " adrenal fatigue " . In light of this, your

result seems somewhat low for a morning reading. Were you fasting when you took

the cortisol test?

It might be worthwhile to test again in a few weeks & compare results.

~Xian

>

> I`m not listing creatinine and cholesterol as these were good. If anyone

thinks these are releveant though, I will post them. I`m listing ferritine

though, as this was above the normal range. The doctor did not comment it

though.

>

> The normal range is on the right side of the *.

>

> LAB RESULTS:

>

> PS-FERRITIN 337 * 20-250

> PS-T3-FREE: 3.8 * 2.6 - 5.7

> PS-T4-FREE 12 * 9 - 24

> PS-TSH 1.22 * 0.35 - 4.70

> PS-ANTI-TPO <3 * 0 - 15

>

> PS-CORTISOL 264

> PS-OSTRADIOL <0,07* 0.04 - 0.18

> PS-FSH 2 * 1 - 12

> PS-LH 2 * 2 - 12

> PS-SHBG 36 * 13 - 60

> PS-TESTOSTERON 14.9 * 10.0 - 40.0

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Xian,

 

I am sorry, but the lab test did not provide the unit of reference. Only the

measured numbers and the reference range. I guess I could ask the doctor about

it.

 

As for the cortisol test, this is the only test that did not provide a reference

range, so I cant`tell you I`m afraid.

 

Yes, I had not eaten anything before the tests that morning.

 

I will talk to the andrologist on the phone today. I am pretty confident that

either way, he will want to take his own tests on me.

 

Thanks again,

 

Elijah

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 07:59:43 -0000, you wrote:

>I`m not listing creatinine and cholesterol as these were good. If anyone thinks

these are releveant though, I will post them. I`m listing ferritine though, as

this was above the normal range. The doctor did not comment it though.

>

>The normal range is on the right side of the *.

>

>LAB RESULTS:

>

>PS-FERRITIN 337 * 20-250

>PS-T3-FREE: 3.8 * 2.6 - 5.7

>PS-T4-FREE 12 * 9 - 24

>PS-TSH 1.22 * 0.35 - 4.70

>PS-ANTI-TPO <3 * 0 - 15

>

>PS-CORTISOL 264

>PS-OSTRADIOL <0,07* 0.04 - 0.18

>PS-FSH 2 * 1 - 12

>PS-LH 2 * 2 - 12

>PS-SHBG 36 * 13 - 60

>PS-TESTOSTERON 14.9 * 10.0 - 40.0

>

>

>

The high ferritin levels are a real concern. They can push

testosterone down. And if levels are high enough long enough they do

damage to the pituitary and make the condition permanent.

[Guest guest]

>

I`m listing ferritine though, as this was above the normal range. The doctor

did not comment it though.

> >

> >The normal range is on the right side of the *.

> >

> >LAB RESULTS:

> >

> >PS-FERRITIN 337 * 20-250

>

> >The high ferritin levels are a real concern. They can push

> testosterone down. And if levels are high enough long enough they do

> damage to the pituitary and make the condition permanent.

>

[Guest guest]

For me when this happens it's my estradiol is at a GOOD level. When I am to low

I can't find it when it's to high same thing it like goes down very small. When

my estradiol is good it looks half hard all day and my libido is way up. Get

this checked I Gage my estradiol by my morning wood if I am going to low taking

arimidex I don't have morning wood. So I stop the arimidex until my wood comes

back the I go back on arimidex but cut the dose. I find I need to adjust this

about every 2 months.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: johnnypilskog <johnnypilskog@...>

> Subject: Re: My testolevels are at the bottom range - What now?

>

> Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 4:59 PM

> Guys,

>

> I just wanted to mention this.

>

> Today I`ve been feeling much better. I hope you guys don`t

> mind me being graphic and detailed, but I have masturbated

> twice today.

>

> On Monday, Sunday, Saturday, and perhaps the rest of the

> last week as well, I have not felt any sexuality in my body

> whatsoever. Tiredness might not have been so bad all the

> time, but I really have not felt that urge or sexuality in

> my body so to speak. I can look at a woman and find her

> beautiful and wish to be with her, but there has been no

> sexuality or lust present.

>

> Tomorrow though, I had to rise after 6 1/2 - 7 hours of

> sleep, and upon awakening, I noticed that I had a 50% boner

> or so.

>

> Something was feeling different in my body. I had a plump

> dick throughout the day. Like a 5-10% erection consistently,

> so to speak. Not the flaccid lifeless dick that I have

> normally.

>

> Is this not a sign that my levels have been higher today?

>

> The sorry thing though, is that I have had days like this

> in the last month as well, but then it goes back to periods

> of low-drive.

>

> I just thought it was worth mentioning.

>

> To my awareness, there is nothing special I do when these

> days occur.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Elijah

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

According to the quick talk with the andrologist on the phone, my FSH and LH

levels are completely normal.

>

> I'm no doctor but your low FSH and LH may be pointing to hypopituitary

problems. I would also look into the high iron levels too. Possible

hemochromatosis.

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: johnnypilskog <johnnypilskog@...>

>

> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 2:59:43 AM

> Subject: Re: My testolevels are at the bottom range - What now?

>

>

>

>

>

> I`m not listing creatinine and cholesterol as these were good. If anyone

thinks these are releveant though, I will post them. I`m listing ferritine

though, as this was above the normal range. The doctor did not comment it

though.

>

> The normal range is on the right side of the *.

>

> LAB RESULTS:

>

> PS-FERRITIN 337 * 20-250

> PS-T3-FREE: 3.8 * 2.6 - 5.7

> PS-T4-FREE 12 * 9 - 24

> PS-TSH 1.22 * 0.35 - 4.70

> PS-ANTI-TPO <3 * 0 - 15

>

> PS-CORTISOL 264

> PS-OSTRADIOL <0,07* 0.04 - 0.18

> PS-FSH 2 * 1 - 12

> PS-LH 2 * 2 - 12

> PS-SHBG 36 * 13 - 60

> PS-TESTOSTERON 14.9 * 10.0 - 40.0

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for sharing.

I will most definitely look into the high ferritin levels.

As I see it, that would be good news, if giving blood could fix my problems:)

Thanks!

Elijah

> >

> I`m listing ferritine though, as this was above the normal range. The doctor

did not comment it though.

> > >

> > >The normal range is on the right side of the *.

> > >

> > >LAB RESULTS:

> > >

> > >PS-FERRITIN 337 * 20-250

> >

> > >The high ferritin levels are a real concern. They can push

> > testosterone down. And if levels are high enough long enough they do

> > damage to the pituitary and make the condition permanent.

> >

>