Credibility of reason to stop supplimenting T?

April 25, 2009

OK, I've been on the mailing list but not posted before. I do have a question

now that I'm hoping I can get some solid input on.

I have a good friend that has had Testicular cancer in his past and over the

last 4-5 years has been perscribed and supplimented his T due to low count. He

is mid 40's, is pretty overweight and doesn't take particuarly good care of

himself otherwise.

I have always thought of the T suppliment as I would for a defiecincy in

estrogen for a woman in terms of it's purpose. It's a base hormone that at the

least is a quality of life issue if out of whack. If a person is low, then it

would always make sense to suppliment and bring it into the range expected and

that there wouldn't be a " condition " of physical activity to supplimenting it.

Now to the question.

My friend told me yesterday that his doctor had told him that he need not take

it if he's not dieting or otherwise taking care of his health. That continuing

to take it is somehow counterproductive, " clogging him up " . That just sounds

fishy to me. So he had stopped taking it about 3 months back. I had reason to

ask him becuase his attitude and overall demeanor was off from how he had been.

Things like energy, attitude, etc.

So my question is, from the experience in this forum, does that jive with what

you know?

Thanks for any insights.

April 26, 2009

Hi Mike. I wish your friend well & hope that he gets the treatment he needs.

Regarding your comment about " supplementing " T, I'm not aware of any medical

method of " supplementing " testosterone production (other than reducing other

hormones that could be lowering testosterone). The main methods people think

about for male hormone replacement therapy- administering testosterone itself or

hormones that tell the testes to make more- are suppressive, meaning once

someone goes off of these methods, T production will be extremely low. The

replacement methods become substitutes, not supplements. On T, for instance,

natural production will cease after about 3-5 weeks on 100mg weekly injections,

& will take a while to resume after discontinuing it.

It may be a sensitive issue for your friend, but the fact is worth noting: if he

no longer has his testes as a result of his treatment for testicular cancer, his

levels of T will always be below the reference range. & sometimes guys who only

have one testis removed

find that the remaining one doesn't keep pace in production, despite what it's

" supposed " to do in that situation. Having less than the reference range puts

one at a significant risk for osteoporosis, type 2 diabetes, anemia, & a host of

other problems. (By the way, I think osteoporosis is more than merely a quality

of life issue, since those who may fracture their hip as a result have a 50%

chance of dying within the next couple years as a result of a blood clot forming

during immobilization.) So whether he had a bilateral orchiectomy or has one

testis remaining that doesn't produce as much as it should, *he needs

testosterone replacement*, regardless of how healthful his choices are. Insulin

resistance/type 2 diabetes can lower testosterone ( & hence, reversing the

insulin resistance might theoretically increase testosterone), but it doesn't

sound like this was the initial cause of his low testosterone.

All that being said, physical exercise like weight training increases androgen

receptors ( & can increase testosterone significantly if the testes remain), so

it is worthwhile to lift weights.

~Xian

>

> OK, I've been on the mailing list but not posted before. I do have a question

now that I'm hoping I can get some solid input on.

>

> I have a good friend that has had Testicular cancer in his past and over the

last 4-5 years has been perscribed and supplimented his T due to low count. He

is mid 40's, is pretty overweight and doesn't take particuarly good care of

himself otherwise.

>

> I have always thought of the T suppliment as I would for a defiecincy in

estrogen for a woman in terms of it's purpose. It's a base hormone that at the

least is a quality of life issue if out of whack. If a person is low, then it

would always make sense to suppliment and bring it into the range expected and

that there wouldn't be a " condition " of physical activity to supplimenting it.

>

> Now to the question.

>

> My friend told me yesterday that his doctor had told him that he need not take

it if he's not dieting or otherwise taking care of his health. That continuing

to take it is somehow counterproductive, " clogging him up " . That just sounds

fishy to me. So he had stopped taking it about 3 months back. I had reason to

ask him becuase his attitude and overall demeanor was off from how he had been.

Things like energy, attitude, etc.

>

> So my question is, from the experience in this forum, does that jive with what

you know?

>

> Thanks for any insights.

>

April 26, 2009

My personal opinion, the doctors an ass. He seems to be saying that if you

aren't going to care for yourself, he won't provide proper medical care. This is

something to report to the doctor's professional body and completly unethical.

Sometimes patients have trouble doing everything they need to but that doesn't

justify the doctor bad judgement or abusive behaviour. I think that this might

be an attempt to force your friend to live a healthier lifestyle but that isn't

an acceptable method of doing so. It feels like blackmail. If this is the case

your friend needs a new doctor. Yes it is important to keep fit and eat well but

taking a man's hormone away would likely make him worse not better. There is no

medical justification in what the doctor did and he should lose his license.

Xian is right about what he said earlier. You can't supplement it is called

hormone replacement therapy for a reason. I would like to say that your friend's

behaviour may be caused by depression which is quite common after testicle

cancer. The doctor should have discussed an antidepressant with your friend. I

would suggest your friend needs to be seen by a decent doctor immediately to

restart the treatments he needs regardless of his life style choices. Maybe you

can ask your friend to join you working out, so both of you will benefit.

Working out is a good thing and will help in many ways. Oh and HRT is critical

not merely a quality of life issue. It really isn't optional especially after

testicle cancer. The only reason I could see for a different then average

treatment would be if the cancer was testosterone driven in which case addional

monitoring and care would certainly be needed during testosterone replacement

therapy. You need to have a good talk man to man with your friend and have him

read these responses. Then maybe refer him to your own doctor if you trust your

doctor or look in the link section of this group and find a decent doctor.

Again sorry to hear about this horrible abuse of power and please consider

reporting this abusive doctor to the licensing board. His action have no

justification.

trannyboy

April 27, 2009