Re: Big Brother Coming Soon

[Guest guest]

Big brother is already here in Israel in the form of socialized

medicine. Like any form of socialism, it is a complete failure. It

is simply a sneaky way for the government to tax you. I tried to

bail out of the corrupt system (that also murders babies in the

womb), but could not without giving up my citizenship. The doctors

are less than worthless, so I have been forced to do the research

myself. Fortunately, the Internet has saved the day for us - I am

successfully ridding my wife of breast cancer at present using

escharotics (plus iodine, of course).

http://chainexerciser.tripod.com

--- In iodine ,

[Guest guest]

why is this crap soiling my e-mail??

this is a health group!!!

Big Brother Coming Soon

Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey

[Guest guest]

Is this another President Obama bashing?

I see no problems from this report. Do you feel the last eight years of health

care was a success? Turning toward technology to help hospitals and doctors and

importantly us, the patients does cut down on all the environmental aspects like

paper, etc.

I like the idea that a doctor can have the right to simply email my prescription

to a Pharm, without me going there. If that it can done and ready by the time I

am ready to pick up my meds, great. Same thing with test results, although, with

test results I don't know if there will be a special database for this or will

it be upon doctors, etc to make sure they have internet security in place to

reduce infections and worms.

Nuring homes seems to not have a federal oversight, because too many nuring

homes neglect older folks and pocket lots of money that should go to overall

proper care and services.

My advice, it isn't law yet. When it does, give it time to see if it can work.

I rather have us the tax payers spending a little more for services that can

help many more Americans including our selves, than to complain and not have the

money there like many Bush ideas. For instance, No Child Left Behind ACT. The

buzz was it could work, except the then president failed to fund it. How can you

save children from being left behind if there isn't any federal funding for this

act especially in environments where kids are often left behind?

Continue President Obama... Its a wait and see situation now, and Americans are

waiting patiently.

From: neil <neilneil@...>

Subject: Big Brother Coming Soon

Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 6:24 AM

Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey

Commentary by Betsy McCaughey

Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Senators are questioning whether

President Barack Obama's stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax

breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health

provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the

handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the

Health and Human Services Department.

Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because

they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH,

pdf version).

The bill's health rules will affect " every individual in the United

States " (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked

electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records

at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial.

It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National

Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments

to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems

appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and

" guide " your doctor's decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the

stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in

his 2008 book, " Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care

Crisis. " According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and

" learn to operate less like solo practitioners. "

Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important,

but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

New Penalties

Hospitals and doctors that are not " meaningful users " of the new

system will face penalties. " Meaningful user " isn't defined in the

bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to

impose " more stringent measures of meaningful use over time " (511,

518, 540-541)

What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the

electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or

you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In

his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make

the " tough " decisions elected politicians won't make.

The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating

Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal,

Daschle's book explained, is to slow the development and use of new

medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He

praises Europeans for being more willing to accept " hopeless

diagnoses " and " forgo experimental treatments, " and he chastises

Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

Elderly Hardest Hit

Daschle says health-care reform " will not be pain free. " Seniors

should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead

of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The

stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness

standard set by the Federal Council (464).

The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in

Daschle's book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a

formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years

the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are

more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the

elderly, such as osteoporosis.

In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with

macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye

before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took

almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its

decision.

Hidden Provisions

If the Obama administration' s economic stimulus bill passes the Senate

in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing.

Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years

and sacrifice later.

The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical

and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much

hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this

bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined

(90-92, 174-177, 181).

Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional. Daschle

supported the Clinton administration' s health-care overhaul in 1994,

and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago, Daschle

wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount

an opposition. " If that means attaching a health-care plan to the

federal budget, so be it, " he said. " The issue is too important to be

stalled by Senate protocol. "

More Scrutiny Needed

On Friday, President Obama called it " inexcusable and irresponsible "

for senators to delay passing the stimulus bill. In truth, this bill

needs more scrutiny.

The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It

produces almost 17 percent of the nation's gross domestic product. Yet

the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a cost

problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and

innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this downturn.

This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy.

(Betsy McCaughey is former lieutenant governor of New York and is an

adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. The opinions expressed

are her own.)

To contact the writer of this column: Betsy McCaughey at

Betsymrossaol (DOT) com

Last Updated: February 9, 2009 00:01 EST

[Guest guest]

Based on what I have read, this may affect us all if the Gov decides that TRT is

not necessary for “the common goodâ€

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Kipp Kruse

Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:28 AM

Subject: Re: Big Brother Coming Soon

why is this crap soiling my e-mail??

this is a health group!!!

Big Brother Coming Soon

Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:58:34 -0700, you wrote:

>Based on what I have read, this may affect us all if the Gov decides that TRT

is not necessary for “the common good”

That sounds like conspiracy nonsense to me. If you have a hypo

diagnosis it's medically necessary.

I trust government to insist on delivering what's medically necessary

more than I trust private insurers. Lots of us have been jerked

around by insurers.

[Guest guest]

retrogrouch@... wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:58:34 -0700, you wrote:

>

>> Based on what I have read, this may affect us all if the Gov decides that TRT

is not necessary for “the common good”

>

>

> That sounds like conspiracy nonsense to me. If you have a hypo

> diagnosis it's medically necessary.

>

> I trust government to insist on delivering what's medically necessary

> more than I trust private insurers. Lots of us have been jerked

> around by insurers.

Any process that can be influenced by special interests, lobbyists,

pharmaceutical companies, etc., is going to be bad for Americans.

For example, I use both TRT and HCG. Since this combination is not

typically used and most endocrinologists know nothing about it, the

likelihood of it being allowed under a " government " influenced system is

close to zero. It gets worse and worse, especially since it's your

health but the government thinks it has the right to grab your by the

balls and guide you health wise.

I'm of the opinion that all such regulation and control creates worse

outcomes under all situations for responsible individuals. It will

reduced health choice, health quality, and health outcomes.

Statin drugs cause me muscle damage but many doctors would argue that it

was not the case. I found with normal thyroid labs that taking T3

lowers my cholesterol dramatically, that I indeed had sub-clinical

hypothyroidism. A government mandate would not allow doctors to proceed

in this direction. This list of shitty results that would come from

government iron-handed control influenced by special interests is

collectivist bullshit. Not for me thanks. Let doctors and patients

opt-in to such a system and see where it goes, but most certainly I

don't want my money taken tax wise and wasted on more government waste.

This " Emergence Pork Bill " is bad for Americans on all levels.

I should add that it's government regulation that allows insurers to

screw with consumers. In an open competition system, true free markets,

saying that one " conformed to all the regulation and laws " would not

be an excuse for bad business practices and such business would be

driven from the market by bankruptcy.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

U U wrote:

> Is this another President Obama bashing?

Who the f* & k cares if we are taking Obama or Bush. No one gets a free

ride. There were these big-brother bills being passed in the bush admin

too. I'm not sure why people think that the bigger governments gets,

the better things are. These are lazy people who don't want to take

personal responsibility but want someone else to wipe their ass for them.

> I see no problems from this report. Do you feel the last eight years of health

care was a success? Turning toward technology to help hospitals and doctors and

importantly us, the patients does cut down on all the environmental aspects like

paper, etc.

Regulations are the point of failure. It prevents market competition

and creates monopoly entrenched entities.

Such a system would limit and minimize the opportunity for effective

TRT. Right now my insurance doesn't pay for T or HCG and while I don't

think that is a good thing, a government system would likely translate

into non-payment and LESS access to these treatments.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:54:54 -0700, you wrote:

>This " Emergence Pork Bill " is bad for Americans on all levels.

When we keep this forum focused on T issues - and forgo religion and

politics we keep everyone working together and for the same things.

I'd like to ask we move the politics somewhere else.

Thanks.

[Guest guest]

I appreciated this post & the potential impact this could have on TRT.

~Xian

>

> Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey

>

>

> Commentary by Betsy McCaughey

>

> Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Senators are questioning whether

> President Barack Obama's stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax

> breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

>

> Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health

> provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the

> handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the

> Health and Human Services Department.

>

> Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because

> they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH,

> pdf version).

>

> The bill's health rules will affect " every individual in the United

> States " (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked

> electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records

> at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial.

> It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

>

> But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National

> Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments

> to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems

> appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and

> " guide " your doctor's decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the

> stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in

> his 2008 book, " Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care

> Crisis. " According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and

> " learn to operate less like solo practitioners. "

>

> Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important,

> but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

>

> New Penalties

>

> Hospitals and doctors that are not " meaningful users " of the new

> system will face penalties. " Meaningful user " isn't defined in the

> bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to

> impose " more stringent measures of meaningful use over time " (511,

> 518, 540-541)

>

> What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the

> electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or

> you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In

> his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make

> the " tough " decisions elected politicians won't make.

>

> The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating

> Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal,

> Daschle's book explained, is to slow the development and use of new

> medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He

> praises Europeans for being more willing to accept " hopeless

> diagnoses " and " forgo experimental treatments, " and he chastises

> Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

>

> Elderly Hardest Hit

>

> Daschle says health-care reform " will not be pain free. " Seniors

> should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead

> of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

>

> Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The

> stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness

> standard set by the Federal Council (464).

>

> The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in

> Daschle's book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a

> formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years

> the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are

> more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the

> elderly, such as osteoporosis.

>

> In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with

> macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye

> before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took

> almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its

> decision.

>

> Hidden Provisions

>

> If the Obama administration's economic stimulus bill passes the Senate

> in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing.

> Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years

> and sacrifice later.

>

> The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical

> and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much

> hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this

> bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined

> (90-92, 174-177, 181).

>

> Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional. Daschle

> supported the Clinton administration's health-care overhaul in 1994,

> and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago, Daschle

> wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount

> an opposition. " If that means attaching a health-care plan to the

> federal budget, so be it, " he said. " The issue is too important to be

> stalled by Senate protocol. "

>

> More Scrutiny Needed

>

> On Friday, President Obama called it " inexcusable and irresponsible "

> for senators to delay passing the stimulus bill. In truth, this bill

> needs more scrutiny.

>

> The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It

> produces almost 17 percent of the nation's gross domestic product. Yet

> the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a cost

> problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and

> innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this downturn.

> This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy.

>

> (Betsy McCaughey is former lieutenant governor of New York and is an

> adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. The opinions expressed

> are her own.)

>

> To contact the writer of this column: Betsy McCaughey at

> Betsymross@...

> Last Updated: February 9, 2009 00:01 EST

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Xian, my intent was to inform not to incite....and I was not

president bashing (to the other poster). I believe it could very well

have an effect on doctors that try to " think outside the box " .

Best, Neil

d00fu524 wrote:

>

> I appreciated this post & the potential impact this could have on TRT.

>

> ~Xian

>

>

> >

> > Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey

> >

> >

> > Commentary by Betsy McCaughey

> >

> > Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Senators are questioning whether

> > President Barack Obama's stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax

> > breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

> >

> > Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health

> > provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the

> > handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the

> > Health and Human Services Department.

> >

> > Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because

> > they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH,

> > pdf version).

> >

> > The bill's health rules will affect " every individual in the United

> > States " (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked

> > electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records

> > at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial.

> > It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

> >

> > But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National

> > Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments

> > to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems

> > appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and

> > " guide " your doctor's decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the

> > stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in

> > his 2008 book, " Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care

> > Crisis. " According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and

> > " learn to operate less like solo practitioners. "

> >

> > Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important,

> > but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

> >

> > New Penalties

> >

> > Hospitals and doctors that are not " meaningful users " of the new

> > system will face penalties. " Meaningful user " isn't defined in the

> > bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to

> > impose " more stringent measures of meaningful use over time " (511,

> > 518, 540-541)

> >

> > What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the

> > electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or

> > you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In

> > his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make

> > the " tough " decisions elected politicians won't make.

> >

> > The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating

> > Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal,

> > Daschle's book explained, is to slow the development and use of new

> > medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He

> > praises Europeans for being more willing to accept " hopeless

> > diagnoses " and " forgo experimental treatments, " and he chastises

> > Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

> >

> > Elderly Hardest Hit

> >

> > Daschle says health-care reform " will not be pain free. " Seniors

> > should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead

> > of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

> >

> > Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The

> > stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness

> > standard set by the Federal Council (464).

> >

> > The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in

> > Daschle's book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a

> > formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years

> > the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are

> > more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the

> > elderly, such as osteoporosis.

> >

> > In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with

> > macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye

> > before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took

> > almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its

> > decision.

> >

> > Hidden Provisions

> >

> > If the Obama administration's economic stimulus bill passes the Senate

> > in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing.

> > Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years

> > and sacrifice later.

> >

> > The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical

> > and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much

> > hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this

> > bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined

> > (90-92, 174-177, 181).

> >

> > Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional. Daschle

> > supported the Clinton administration's health-care overhaul in 1994,

> > and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago, Daschle

> > wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount

> > an opposition. " If that means attaching a health-care plan to the

> > federal budget, so be it, " he said. " The issue is too important to be

> > stalled by Senate protocol. "

> >

> > More Scrutiny Needed

> >

> > On Friday, President Obama called it " inexcusable and irresponsible "

> > for senators to delay passing the stimulus bill. In truth, this bill

> > needs more scrutiny.

> >

> > The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It

> > produces almost 17 percent of the nation's gross domestic product. Yet

> > the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a cost

> > problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and

> > innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this downturn.

> > This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy.

> >

> > (Betsy McCaughey is former lieutenant governor of New York and is an

> > adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. The opinions expressed

> > are her own.)

> >

> > To contact the writer of this column: Betsy McCaughey at

> > Betsymross@...

> > Last Updated: February 9, 2009 00:01 EST

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.22/1946 - Release Date: 2/11/2009

11:13 AM

>

[Guest guest]

I also didn't think it was " off topic " , but that it was extremely

relevant and useful information to know in advance for those of us

dealing with TRT...and what obtacles we might face in the future

because of it!

Jim

> >

> > Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey

> >

> >

> > Commentary by Betsy McCaughey

> >

> > Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Senators are questioning whether

> > President Barack Obama's stimulus bill contains the right mix of

tax

> > breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

> >

> > Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health

> > provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect

the

> > handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the

> > Health and Human Services Department.

> >

> > Senators should read these provisions and vote against them

because

> > they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1

EH,

> > pdf version).

> >

> > The bill's health rules will affect " every individual in the

United

> > States " (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked

> > electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical

records

> > at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is

beneficial.

> > It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

> >

> > But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National

> > Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor

treatments

> > to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government

deems

> > appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and

> > " guide " your doctor's decisions (442, 446). These provisions in

the

> > stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed

in

> > his 2008 book, " Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care

> > Crisis. " According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy

and

> > " learn to operate less like solo practitioners. "

> >

> > Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is

important,

> > but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

> >

> > New Penalties

> >

> > Hospitals and doctors that are not " meaningful users " of the new

> > system will face penalties. " Meaningful user " isn't defined in

the

> > bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be

empowered to

> > impose " more stringent measures of meaningful use over time " (511,

> > 518, 540-541)

> >

> > What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the

> > electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical

or

> > you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional.

In

> > his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to

make

> > the " tough " decisions elected politicians won't make.

> >

> > The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating

> > Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The

goal,

> > Daschle's book explained, is to slow the development and use of

new

> > medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He

> > praises Europeans for being more willing to accept " hopeless

> > diagnoses " and " forgo experimental treatments, " and he chastises

> > Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

> >

> > Elderly Hardest Hit

> >

> > Daschle says health-care reform " will not be pain free. " Seniors

> > should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age

instead

> > of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

> >

> > Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The

> > stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness

> > standard set by the Federal Council (464).

> >

> > The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in

> > Daschle's book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a

> > formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of

years

> > the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients

are

> > more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the

> > elderly, such as osteoporosis.

> >

> > In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with

> > macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye

> > before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It

took

> > almost three years of public protests before the board reversed

its

> > decision.

> >

> > Hidden Provisions

> >

> > If the Obama administration's economic stimulus bill passes the

Senate

> > in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar

rationing.

> > Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger

years

> > and sacrifice later.

> >

> > The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from

medical

> > and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much

> > hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this

> > bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force

combined

> > (90-92, 174-177, 181).

> >

> > Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional.

Daschle

> > supported the Clinton administration's health-care overhaul in

1994,

> > and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago,

Daschle

> > wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics

mount

> > an opposition. " If that means attaching a health-care plan to the

> > federal budget, so be it, " he said. " The issue is too important to

be

> > stalled by Senate protocol. "

> >

> > More Scrutiny Needed

> >

> > On Friday, President Obama called it " inexcusable and

irresponsible "

> > for senators to delay passing the stimulus bill. In truth, this

bill

> > needs more scrutiny.

> >

> > The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It

> > produces almost 17 percent of the nation's gross domestic product.

Yet

> > the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a

cost

> > problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and

> > innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this

downturn.

> > This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy.

> >

> > (Betsy McCaughey is former lieutenant governor of New York and is

an

> > adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. The opinions

expressed

> > are her own.)

> >

> > To contact the writer of this column: Betsy McCaughey at

> > Betsymross@

> > Last Updated: February 9, 2009 00:01 EST

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree retro, also remember President Obama's mom died in a hospital fighting

with her insurance company, our president thought hard about this and one of his

goals was to not let that happen to another American. Our president is not Bush!

He cares about the American ppl's concerns.

>Based on what I have read, this may affect us all if the Gov decides that TRT

is not necessary for “the common good”

That sounds like conspiracy nonsense to me. If you have a hypo

diagnosis it's medically necessary.

I trust government to insist on delivering what's medically necessary

more than I trust private insurers. Lots of us have been jerked

around by insurers.

[Guest guest]

If you really want to know who, what the health industry/regulators really are-- then visit this site so you will also understand why we are all so sick:

http://www.bariumblues.com/mycoplasma_nexus.htm

[Guest guest]

This will be soiling your health!

________________________________

From: Kipp Kruse <kckruse@...>

Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:28:07 AM

Subject: Re: Big Brother Coming Soon

why is this crap soiling my e-mail??

this is a health group!!!

Big Brother Coming Soon

Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey

[Guest guest]

Most of us have been jerked around by insurance companies. My doctor refuses to

even mess with insurance companies anymore and I have to file the claims. I

still wouldn't trust the government as far as I could throw them. The government

has no business in health care. They pass laws and defend us against enemies not

run our lives.

Stepping down now.

________________________________

From: " retrogrouch@... " <retrogrouch@...>

Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:21:22 AM

Subject: Re: Big Brother Coming Soon

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:58:34 -0700, you wrote:

>Based on what I have read, this may affect us all if the Gov decides that TRT

is not necessary for “the common good”

That sounds like conspiracy nonsense to me. If you have a hypo

diagnosis it's medically necessary.

I trust government to insist on delivering what's medically necessary

more than I trust private insurers. Lots of us have been jerked

around by insurers.

[Guest guest]

my health is fine dude, don't worry about it;; your menta; health on the other

hand???

go find a conservative political board and help your blood pressure

[Guest guest]

This is not Obama bashing son! This is socialized medicine, wish you were in

Canada

and see how long a wait you will have to get a serious surgery done. We go to

the

United States so we can save our lives now.

 

You asked for it, now wait and see what happens-----too late Sonny ! You can do

nothing

about it then.

 

From: neil <neilneil@...>

Subject: Big Brother Coming Soon

Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 6:24 AM

Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey

Commentary by Betsy McCaughey

Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Senators are questioning whether

President Barack Obama's stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax

breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health

provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the

handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the

Health and Human Services Department.

Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because

they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH,

pdf version).

The bill's health rules will affect " every individual in the United

States " (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked

electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records

at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial.

It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National

Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments

to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems

appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and

" guide " your doctor's decisions (442, 446). These provisions in

the

stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in

his 2008 book, " Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care

Crisis. " According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and

" learn to operate less like solo practitioners. "

Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important,

but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

New Penalties

Hospitals and doctors that are not " meaningful users " of the new

system will face penalties. " Meaningful user " isn't defined in

the

bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to

impose " more stringent measures of meaningful use over time " (511,

518, 540-541)

What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the

electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or

you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In

his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make

the " tough " decisions elected politicians won't make.

The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating

Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal,

Daschle's book explained, is to slow the development and use of new

medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He

praises Europeans for being more willing to accept " hopeless

diagnoses " and " forgo experimental treatments, " and he chastises

Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

Elderly Hardest Hit

Daschle says health-care reform " will not be pain free. " Seniors

should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead

of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The

stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness

standard set by the Federal Council (464).

The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in

Daschle's book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a

formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years

the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are

more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the

elderly, such as osteoporosis.

In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with

macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye

before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took

almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its

decision.

Hidden Provisions

If the Obama administration' s economic stimulus bill passes the Senate

in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing.

Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years

and sacrifice later.

The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical

and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much

hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this

bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined

(90-92, 174-177, 181).

Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional. Daschle

supported the Clinton administration' s health-care overhaul in 1994,

and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago, Daschle

wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount

an opposition. " If that means attaching a health-care plan to the

federal budget, so be it, " he said. " The issue is too important to be

stalled by Senate protocol. "

More Scrutiny Needed

On Friday, President Obama called it " inexcusable and irresponsible "

for senators to delay passing the stimulus bill. In truth, this bill

needs more scrutiny.

The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It

produces almost 17 percent of the nation's gross domestic product. Yet

the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a cost

problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and

innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this downturn.

This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy.

(Betsy McCaughey is former lieutenant governor of New York and is an

adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. The opinions expressed

are her own.)

To contact the writer of this column: Betsy McCaughey at

Betsymrossaol (DOT) com

Last Updated: February 9, 2009 00:01 EST

[Guest guest]

So you trust government over private insurers? Well if you were in Canada you

would

find out that socialist govermental sponsored medication is not a good thing. If

you

find out they won't let you have testosterone to live then you will change your

mind

just a little bit! When we have serious problems that have to be taken care of

or we

die we go to the good old US of A, thank you very much!

 

>Based on what I have read, this may affect us all if the Gov decides that

TRT is not necessary for “the common good”

That sounds like conspiracy nonsense to me. If you have a hypo

diagnosis it's medically necessary.

I trust government to insist on delivering what's medically necessary

more than I trust private insurers. Lots of us have been jerked

around by insurers.

----------------------------------

[Guest guest]

If we move to " socialized medicine " what will happen to our private

practice Dr's?? Will they be allowed to continue to practice medicine

as they do today, or will they fall under scrutiny by the Federal

Government and be limited on how they diagnose our needs? What has

happened to private practice medicine (specifically Homeopathic &

Endocrinology) in Europe, Canada & Australia? o

[Guest guest]

> I appreciated this post & the potential impact this could have on TRT.

>

> ~Xian

Hi,

well for a lot of us it wouldn't affect us much if at all.

our " private " health insurance doesn't cover " quality of life " stuff

like viagra... or testosterone much less arimidex (brand name only in

US to keep the drug company's profits HIGH) so we're buying from IOPs

to save money...

let's see 10ml of 250mg/ml test-e for $60,... plus some arimidex and

hcg from www.alldaychemist.com and we're setup for about 5 months for

about 85$

but there's very little darn " stimulus " in the current bill... do you

think 13$ more a week (IF you've still got a job) will really affect

your buying patterns much?

[Guest guest]

>

> This is not Obama bashing son! This is socialized medicine, wish you

> were in Canada and see how long a wait you will have to get a

serious > surgery done. We go to the United States so we can save our

lives now.

ever notice how the only countries with universal health care that are

used as examples are the UK and Canada... you know where US citizens

go to get name brand meds at HALF the US cost.

it's never compared to France...

where you can get a housecall! on the national health service.

try calling your local hospital switchboard saying your infant child

has a fever and is throwing up and could you get a housecall tonight.

in France it's no big deal... in Paris you'll have a doctor on your

doorstep in a couple of hours MAX... need a script filled? no problem

there's a 24 hour pharmacy in every arrondisment...

and how do -I- know this?

I've got a cousin in Paris... an MD who LIKES to be part of the SOS

Medicin system.

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:23:34 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>Most of us have been jerked around by insurance companies. My doctor refuses to

even mess with insurance companies anymore and I have to file the claims. I

still wouldn't trust the government as far as I could throw them. The government

has no business in health care. They pass laws and defend us against enemies not

run our lives.

>

>Stepping down now.

Most private doctors offices now have at least one staff person solely

dedicated to pursuing insurance reimbursement. What a waste.

My sister worked with a woman who was previously a claims evaluator

for an insurer. She confessed they were told to throw one out of four

letters into the garbage unopened. They pretended they didn't get

them. A significant number of people just went away. Then they denied

the first opened claim as policy. It was only on the third or fourth

claim they would even begin to consider validity.

But regulation is the evil . . . Oh please.

[Guest guest]

> but there's very little darn " stimulus " in the current bill... do you

> think 13$ more a week (IF you've still got a job) will really affect

> your buying patterns much?

---------------------------------------

The " stimulus " bill is 2/3 SPENDING TO CREATE or KEEP JOBS, and 1/3

taxcuts. The purpose never was to give you more than the " average "

workers $13 a week in a tax cut. The purpose was to SPEND MONEY to

create or keep jobs.

Hormone replacement therapy as administered through Medicare, is left

up to the individual states to decide who get what paid for.

For example, Ernest Nolan on this forum is lucky that his state uses

its medicare money to pay for his expensive T pellet implants.

I think Ernest is in Georgia. Medicare payments have almost never

been about quality of life, but " adequate " health care.

That's way Medicare will pay to have a tooth pulled, but not a much

more expensive root canal. Its about money, not what you prefer.

[Guest guest]

TRT is a valid medical disease. Insurance covers TRT but may not cover a

specific type of TRT biomedical treatment. Some companies may only want you to

buy the less expensive kind like the doses and needles. Some would allow you to

have the gel which is easier to apply but more expensive.

ED is also considered a medical problem, and therefore should be covered by most

insurance, but the type of ED treatment is up to them and not you.

Before I shop online for TRT meds I cannot afford without insurance, I will

simply continue to use the insurance I have which covers most of the drugs I

need. If there is a drug that is not covered, I have options like telling my doc

to change the med for something my insurance will cover, or have my doc explain

to my insurance that med is needed and therefore should be covered.

I really don't get some concerns over this stimulus bill. At least our president

is willing to do something so this economic crisis can somewhat improve.

America's middle and lower and below lower middle class citizens did not have

that type of focus and support from Bush for 8 years. The only classes in

America that gained was the upper middle and wealthy class.

Its too early to start complaining. Sad Americans will complain when he is

president but not when Bush was for 8 years of doing nothing for our economy and

stability.

From: jbbooks1901 <jbbooks1901@...>

Subject: Re: Big Brother Coming Soon

Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 5:45 PM

> I appreciated this post & the potential impact this could have on TRT.

>

> ~Xian

Hi,

well for a lot of us it wouldn't affect us much if at all.

our " private " health insurance doesn't cover " quality of life " stuff

like viagra... or testosterone much less arimidex (brand name only in

US to keep the drug company's profits HIGH) so we're buying from IOPs

to save money...

let's see 10ml of 250mg/ml test-e for $60,... plus some arimidex and

hcg from www.alldaychemist. com and we're setup for about 5 months for

about 85$

but there's very little darn " stimulus " in the current bill... do you

think 13$ more a week (IF you've still got a job) will really affect

your buying patterns much?

[Guest guest]

The real story on this is emerging:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123423024203966081.html

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/ignorance-is-bliss/

" Companies " want to control the data, how it is reviewed, evaluated,

and whether the public and government find out about it and use it, "

said Harry Selker, a Tufts University professor who directs its

clinical-research program. "

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:03:17 -0000, you wrote:

>I appreciated this post & the potential impact this could have on TRT.

>

>~Xian

>

>

>>

>> Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey

>>

>>

>> Commentary by Betsy McCaughey

>>

>> Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Senators are questioning whether

>> President Barack Obama's stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax

>> breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

>>

>> Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health

>> provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the

>> handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the

>> Health and Human Services Department.

>>

>> Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because

>> they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH,

>> pdf version).

>>

>> The bill's health rules will affect " every individual in the United

>> States " (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked

>> electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records

>> at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial.

>> It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

>>

>> But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National

>> Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments

>> to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems

>> appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and

>> " guide " your doctor's decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the

>> stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in

>> his 2008 book, " Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care

>> Crisis. " According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and

>> " learn to operate less like solo practitioners. "

>>

>> Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important,

>> but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

>>

>> New Penalties

>>

>> Hospitals and doctors that are not " meaningful users " of the new

>> system will face penalties. " Meaningful user " isn't defined in the

>> bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to

>> impose " more stringent measures of meaningful use over time " (511,

>> 518, 540-541)

>>

>> What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the

>> electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or

>> you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In

>> his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make

>> the " tough " decisions elected politicians won't make.

>>

>> The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating

>> Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal,

>> Daschle's book explained, is to slow the development and use of new

>> medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He

>> praises Europeans for being more willing to accept " hopeless

>> diagnoses " and " forgo experimental treatments, " and he chastises

>> Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

>>

>> Elderly Hardest Hit

>>

>> Daschle says health-care reform " will not be pain free. " Seniors

>> should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead

>> of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

>>

>> Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The

>> stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness

>> standard set by the Federal Council (464).

>>

>> The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in

>> Daschle's book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a

>> formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years

>> the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are

>> more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the

>> elderly, such as osteoporosis.

>>

>> In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with

>> macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye

>> before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took

>> almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its

>> decision.

>>

>> Hidden Provisions

>>

>> If the Obama administration's economic stimulus bill passes the Senate

>> in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing.

>> Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years

>> and sacrifice later.

>>

>> The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical

>> and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much

>> hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this

>> bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined

>> (90-92, 174-177, 181).

>>

>> Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional. Daschle

>> supported the Clinton administration's health-care overhaul in 1994,

>> and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago, Daschle

>> wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount

>> an opposition. " If that means attaching a health-care plan to the

>> federal budget, so be it, " he said. " The issue is too important to be

>> stalled by Senate protocol. "

>>

>> More Scrutiny Needed

>>

>> On Friday, President Obama called it " inexcusable and irresponsible "

>> for senators to delay passing the stimulus bill. In truth, this bill

>> needs more scrutiny.

>>

>> The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It

>> produces almost 17 percent of the nation's gross domestic product. Yet

>> the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a cost

>> problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and

>> innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this downturn.

>> This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy.

>>

>> (Betsy McCaughey is former lieutenant governor of New York and is an

>> adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. The opinions expressed

>> are her own.)

>>

>> To contact the writer of this column: Betsy McCaughey at

>> Betsymross@...

>> Last Updated: February 9, 2009 00:01 EST

>>

>