Re: Help - Stuck Stones

May 26, 2003

Carey, I had it done, in March I had a lot of sludge stuck in my duct and

developed a GB infection with severe case of jaundice. I was at the

hospital, they told me surgery was inevitable, but they discovered that

the infection also affected my liver, and thanks to that they could not

operate on me. They did the ERCP, which is not as scarry as it sounds. It

cleaned my duct out and after that my jaundice went away as well and the

bilirubin levels went down. I had a mild case of pancreatisis, I could

not eat solid food for 3 days, but I did not developed any complications

and since then I did 2 flushes, I am on my third one as I type this ( 20

min before I take the olive/Grapefruit mix) .Once I found this group and

started on the flushes, I made up my mind not to have my GB removed.

Good luck,

May 26, 2003

Are the stones causing you pain? You would know if it was stuck, you would

be in the worst pain of your life, same thing if you developed pancreatitis,

I had many bouts of pancreatitis without ever having the ERCP done, they

eventually unstick, I did 3 flushes before having my gb out, I dont

completely regret it but I do wonder if I would have stuck to it if maybe I

would be ok. I think I was just too weak, I had lost 7 months while I was

pregnant and not being able to flush , so by the time I got around to it I

was so sick and weak from not eating that I just couldnt handle it, I never

planned to get gb removed it just happened as an emergency after another of

many attacks of pancreatitis.

I would hold off on the ERCP and flush!!!!I dont think it could hurt

anything, unless you already have pancreatitis. Good luck!!

>

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May 26, 2003

<<I would have done the parasite cleaning, I just didnt have time. I was so

sick and so thin from not being able to eat, I was hardly able to take care

of my newborn!! >>

exactly!

this is the problem with dr clarks methods. she doesnt understand the

mechanisms of the body properly and advises people to crawl in between a

rock and a hard place. you are not the only person that has had this

experience. i have talked to many people who were too worn out to parasite

cleanse. and some who did it for years and were at the brink of death.

May 26, 2003

I do understand the importance of ridding the body of parasites, i just dont

think because I didnt do it that that is the reason a stone got stuck during

flushing. That makes absolutely no sense. If I did a parasite cleanse, then

would I know longer have had any stones get stuck even when not cleansing?

>

><<I would have done the parasite cleaning, I just didnt have time. I was so

>sick and so thin from not being able to eat, I was hardly able to take care

>of my newborn!! >>

>

>exactly!

>

>this is the problem with dr clarks methods. she doesnt understand the

>mechanisms of the body properly and advises people to crawl in between a

>rock and a hard place. you are not the only person that has had this

>experience. i have talked to many people who were too worn out to parasite

>cleanse. and some who did it for years and were at the brink of death.

>

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May 26, 2003

Carey, sorry to hear about your stones in the bile duct. Same

happened to me. Had severe pain, jaundice and inflamed pancreas.

Had an ERCP and then they removed the gall bladder. I wish they

would not have removed the gb, but my condition was very serious and

they were afraid it would happen again. Before the ERCP and surgery,

I wasn't allowed to eat - not even a drink of water. This was to

prevent the pancreas and liver from releasing digestive fluids. This

is because they can back up if the bile duct is blocked. (Think of a

garden hose with marbles in it.) That can cause pancreatitis,

jaundice, etc.

I agree with all the people on this site about saving your gall

bladder. If you can, I think you should try everything to prevent gb

removal. Maybe you can just have the ERCP to clear the duct. Then

again, maybe the stones can pass by themselves. Either way, please

make sure you are under some kind of medical supervision now, as a

blocked duct can be very serious. Please also seek advice about

eating at this time because it can aggravate your condition. This

group has wonderful advice and I hope you can keep your gall

bladder. Just please make sure you get the help you need for the

stuck stones in the bile duct. Don't want you to get as sick as I

did from them. Wish you all the best of health...Randi

--- In gallstones , " careyparder " <careyparder@s...>

wrote:

> Hi, I'm new to the group but not new to working with GB issues. I

> am looking for advise regarding stones stuck in the common bile

duct.

> I have done 6 flushes as per Hulda e's recipe with Epsom

salts,

> Olive oil & Grapefruit juice which has releived GB attacks except

> for 1 milder one between flush 5 and 6.

>

> I recently went for an Ultrasound to see how its going a was told I

> have 3 stones in the duct, the largest being 7 mm. Also the common

> duct is dialated from a previous 5.5 mm to 9mm at the pancreatic

> head. My doctor wants me to immediately book for a procedure

called

> Endoscopic Retrograde Cholangiopacreatography (ERCP) to remove the

> blocking stones. (And later have the GB removed which I will not

do).

> The procedure involves inserting an endoscope through the mouth,

> stomach & top of small intestine and sometimes making a small

> incision at the bottom of the bile duct to gain access to the stuck

> stones.

>

> The danger of stones blocking the common bile duct is that you can

> develop pancreatis which is serious.

>

> If I hadn't gone for ultrasound I would have happily done another

> flush and probably not had any blockage concerns - but now that I

> know more about blockages and know I have one I would invite any

> feedback from folks with experience in this area.

>

> Is it common to have these blockages while flushing?

> Is it safe to keep flushing?

> Has anyone had the ERCP procedure done - how safe is it?

>

> Thanks for your input,

>

> Carey

May 26, 2003

Just do another flush - flush will clear those stones.

In not one, you can reapeat the flush several times - that will be

enough.

Agnes

>

> > Hi, I'm new to the group but not new to working with GB issues.

I

> > am looking for advise regarding stones stuck in the common bile

> duct.

> > I have done 6 flushes as per Hulda e's recipe with Epsom

> salts,

> > Olive oil & Grapefruit juice which has releived GB attacks

except

> > for 1 milder one between flush 5 and 6.

June 15, 2003

--- careyparder <careyparder@...> wrote:

> > I recently went for an Ultrasound to see how its

> > going a was told I

> > have 3 stones in the duct, the largest being 7 mm.

Do you have any symptoms...it seems like if it there

was something blocking the duct, you would.

> > Also the common

> > duct is dialated from a previous 5.5 mm to 9mm at

> > the pancreatic head.

Logic tells me that when we are flushing, we are

probably stretching our ducts a bit, so that they

become larger, just from the pressure of pushing

the stones and bile through the ducts. Since we are

all doing this on our own, pretty much, and no medical

people are willing to research things like this, common

sense is sometimes the best thing we have to go with,

and this just makes sense to me. I remember

someone else posting a message that she had

ultrasound after flushing and her duct(s) were larger

as well. I have often thought that maybe that isn't

such a bad thing as it would allow stones and sludge

to pass more easily.

My brother and I have both had the test you are

describing, it isn't so bad...you are drugged during

it and come out of it with a bit of a rough throat, but

not painful, it wasn't to big a deal.

Hope you get the help you need.

By the way, were there any stones in the GB, or just

those few smaller ones in the duct? Is bile passing

the stones so that your ducts are still functioning?

L. Meydrech, CN

http://nutritionist.tripod.com/gallbladder.html ~ My Flushes

HerBulletin

FREE Health Analysis:

http://www.mynsp.com/web/meydrech/healthAnalyzer.jsp

mailto:claudiameydrech@...

" A cheerful heart is good medicine " Prov. 17:22a

June 16, 2003

> Can we scan bile duct by ultra sound ???

Yes, they can view the bile ducts with an

ultrasound...I have watched as they have looked

at mine.

L. Meydrech, CN

http://nutritionist.tripod.com/gallbladder.html ~ My Flushes

HerBulletin

FREE Health Analysis:

http://www.mynsp.com/web/meydrech/healthAnalyzer.jsp

mailto:claudiameydrech@...

" A cheerful heart is good medicine " Prov. 17:22a

June 16, 2003

I think that the dissolving method takes many months, no matter which herb

you try. You can buy chanca piedra on the web.

June 17, 2003

Thanks for your input - I have done 2 more flushes since I posted my

request for help (re - stuck stones) with good results. Stones are

actually getting bigger so I guess I'll be at this for a while.

There is also a good forum on Liver/Gallbladder cleansing at

www.curezone.com.

Carey

June 18, 2003

Hi Carey.

My suggestion would be to consider what caused the gallstones in the first

place, and reverse that. My belief is that our processed 'Western' diet is the

culprit. Go whole and go natural. This should decrease the size of your

stones. I also don't believe in consuming any animal products. This conclusion

comes through 3 years of trial and error with my diet.

----- Original Message -----

From: careyparder

gallstones

Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 1:48 PM

Subject: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

Thanks for your input - I have done 2 more flushes since I posted my

request for help (re - stuck stones) with good results. Stones are

actually getting bigger so I guess I'll be at this for a while.

There is also a good forum on Liver/Gallbladder cleansing at

www.curezone.com.

Carey

June 19, 2003

Try taking a teaspoon of epson salts and see if it relieves the pain. You

can also Flush every 2 weeks if you are in pain.

Also if you had Changs Chineese Herbs they can remove stuck stones very

easly. She has a method for this, call her : www.sensiblehealth.com

June 20, 2003

Hi .

All I can say is, they were caused by diet and your stuck stone problem can be

reversed by diet...

----- Original Message -----

From: serricat

gallstones

Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:25 AM

Subject: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

I have done 3 flushes now and only the first one had stones bigger

than pea size. The last two have been pretty disappointing with

stones the size of pebbles. I have been experiencing non-stop pain

now for about 1-2 weeks and I am getting really worried. Is this

normal? When they did an ultrasound it showed about 7 bb size stones

at the very back of the gb. I am trying so hard to figure out what

is wrong with me. I'm wondering if maybe one got stuck? I have been

experiencing nausea and abdominal pain as well. I am ready to go back

to the Dr. and see what she can think of. I would like to do another

flush right away but it's only been 5 weeks since the last one. I'm

really scared and I was hoping someone on here could share their

experience with me. Thanks

June 20, 2003

Change your diet...

----- Original Message -----

From: farscape66@...

gallstones

Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:32 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

Try taking a teaspoon of epson salts and see if it relieves the pain. You

can also Flush every 2 weeks if you are in pain.

Also if you had Changs Chineese Herbs they can remove stuck stones very

easly. She has a method for this, call her : www.sensiblehealth.com

June 20, 2003

believe me changing your diet isnt always the answer, sometimes there is

damage that has been done and it cant just be cured by diet.

>From: " le " <wardox@...>

>Reply-gallstones

><gallstones >

>Subject: Re: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:13:43 +1000

>

>Change your diet...

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: farscape66@...

> gallstones

> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:32 AM

> Subject: Re: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

>

> Try taking a teaspoon of epson salts and see if it relieves the pain.

>You

> can also Flush every 2 weeks if you are in pain.

>

> Also if you had Changs Chineese Herbs they can remove stuck stones

>very

> easly. She has a method for this, call her : www.sensiblehealth.com

>

June 20, 2003

My experiences with liver flushes have varied over the last year i've been doing

them. I have done a total of 18.I was never diagnosed with stones, and after

reading info on the cure zone i was curious to try one. My first flush resulted

in over 400 pea-size and marble size stones. I could not believe it!I have had

pain in my liver for years. I had also had my liver checked and it was

" normal " !

Anyways, after reading as much as I could about how to heal the body(liver) I

started putting other things into the liver cleanse to see if it would help.To

my surpise on my 6th flush I literally passed 15 golf balls. I didn't feel any

pain either.

Now what I did was, I had been doing the parasite cleanse for 2 months before I

did the 6th cleanse and was passing fur-like fuzzie things and too many other

creatures to describe, so about 3 days before I decided to juice(ginger, garlic,

parsley, apple, beet, celery, carrots)and I drank about 2 quarts a day, then I

made sure I was totally cleaned out (I took senna tea). Then the day before I

started doing coffee enemas and using a heating pad on my liver area. Then the

day of I drank more juice until 2, then continued using the heating pad all day.

Then when I drank oil mixture at 10 then another mixture at 12, the next morning

I passed golf balls!!

So I'm not saying this will work for everyone, but this has been working very

well for me. I have stopped taking thyroid medication and I digest my food a

lot better now. One thing I can say with " my " experience is EFA's are very

important to keep bile flow moving and cleaned out, and I forgot to say I put

black walnut in my oil and juice mixture too.

I personally think that if we have a bad liver then things start to live there,

and if we don't kill them they keep you from having a good flush. I have been

taking parasite cleanse for 1 year now ongoing, and it has helped me alot. This

is what has worked for me.

God Bless,

sabrina

>serricat <serricat@...> wrote:

>I was hoping someone on here could share their

>experience with me. Thanks

June 20, 2003

Sure.

But given that bad diet is the cause of the problem in the first place, isn't it

reasonable to suggest that one change it?

----- Original Message -----

From: Schurdevin

gallstones

Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:32 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

believe me changing your diet isnt always the answer, sometimes there is

damage that has been done and it cant just be cured by diet.

>From: " le " <wardox@...>

>Reply-gallstones

><gallstones >

>Subject: Re: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:13:43 +1000

>

>Change your diet...

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: farscape66@...

> gallstones

> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:32 AM

> Subject: Re: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

>

> Try taking a teaspoon of epson salts and see if it relieves the pain.

>You

> can also Flush every 2 weeks if you are in pain.

>

> Also if you had Changs Chineese Herbs they can remove stuck stones

>very

> easly. She has a method for this, call her : www.sensiblehealth.com

>

June 20, 2003

wrote:

One thing I can say with " my " experience is EFA's are very important to keep

bile flow moving and cleaned out,

Totally agree . And for those who do not know what 'EFA's' are, these

letters stand for 'Essential Fatty Acids', only found in COLD PRESSED oils or

RAW vegan foods which naturally have oil occurring in them. For instance, raw

almonds or raw sunflower and pumpkin seeds.

----- Original Message -----

From: sabrina seaford

gallstones

Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:54 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

My experiences with liver flushes have varied over the last year i've been

doing them. I have done a total of 18.I was never diagnosed with stones, and

after reading info on the cure zone i was curious to try one. My first flush

resulted in over 400 pea-size and marble size stones. I could not believe it!I

have had pain in my liver for years. I had also had my liver checked and it was

" normal " !

Anyways, after reading as much as I could about how to heal the body(liver) I

started putting other things into the liver cleanse to see if it would help.To

my surpise on my 6th flush I literally passed 15 golf balls. I didn't feel any

pain either.

Now what I did was, I had been doing the parasite cleanse for 2 months before

I did the 6th cleanse and was passing fur-like fuzzie things and too many other

creatures to describe, so about 3 days before I decided to juice(ginger, garlic,

parsley, apple, beet, celery, carrots)and I drank about 2 quarts a day, then I

made sure I was totally cleaned out (I took senna tea). Then the day before I

started doing coffee enemas and using a heating pad on my liver area. Then the

day of I drank more juice until 2, then continued using the heating pad all day.

Then when I drank oil mixture at 10 then another mixture at 12, the next morning

I passed golf balls!!

So I'm not saying this will work for everyone, but this has been working very

well for me. I have stopped taking thyroid medication and I digest my food a

lot better now. One thing I can say with " my " experience is EFA's are very

important to keep bile flow moving and cleaned out, and I forgot to say I put

black walnut in my oil and juice mixture too.

I personally think that if we have a bad liver then things start to live

there, and if we don't kill them they keep you from having a good flush. I have

been taking parasite cleanse for 1 year now ongoing, and it has helped me alot.

This is what has worked for me.

God Bless,

sabrina

June 20, 2003

Yes, of course you should change your diet, anyone that has actually had

severe gallstone problems cant survive on an american diet. But all im

saying is that it wont cure the problem in every case.

>From: " le " <wardox@...>

>Reply-gallstones

><gallstones >

>Subject: Re: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:46:08 +1000

>

>Sure.

>

>But given that bad diet is the cause of the problem in the first place,

>isn't it reasonable to suggest that one change it?

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Schurdevin

> gallstones

> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:32 AM

> Subject: Re: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

>

> believe me changing your diet isnt always the answer, sometimes there is

> damage that has been done and it cant just be cured by diet.

>

> >From: " le " <wardox@...>

> >Reply-gallstones

> ><gallstones >

> >Subject: Re: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

> >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:13:43 +1000

> >

> >Change your diet...

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: farscape66@...

> > gallstones

> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:32 AM

> > Subject: Re: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

> >

> > Try taking a teaspoon of epson salts and see if it relieves the

>pain.

> >You

> > can also Flush every 2 weeks if you are in pain.

> >

> > Also if you had Changs Chineese Herbs they can remove stuck

>stones

> >very

> > easly. She has a method for this, call her : www.sensiblehealth.com

> >

June 20, 2003

Thanks for all the posts. I may try the parasite cleanse. I haven't

done that yet. Does Nature's Sunshine have a web site? As far as

changing the diet goes, I have already done that and yet it doesn't

seem to matter what I eat it all hurts. It's not the doubled over

kind of pain that most people desribe here. It's more like just an

ache in my side that never quits. I eat lots of vegetables and

fruits. I buy most of my food from the organic grocers. I'm just

trying to figure out what the problem is. Maybe I'm just being

impatient. I have only been experiencing pain since Feb, so maybe it

just takes awhile for the cleansing to work. So I guess my question

is: How would someone know they have a stuck stone? Also, to the

people who have done many flushes, did you still have pain during

that time or did it go away immediately? Thanks,

June 20, 2003

heather

try looking into the blood type diet.

i have had exactly what you describe fro over a year now. not pain but it

feels like rocks are there, and that is exactly what's going on.

every time after a flush, the remaining stones will move forward from inside

the liver to be expelled. i find for myself that if i don't eat properly for

me, which is a good amount of animal protein, that this process goes very

slowly. if i eat right for my chemistry, then the stones move alot faster,

and the flushes are alot more successful.

for some people low fat is the way to go. animal fat works well for me in

helping to move the stones forward and getting them out with greater ease.

whenever this feelings gets too uncomfortable i flush, and usually there are

very large stones, and then the discomfort will go away until the next batch

is ready.

there is a difference between having a stone stuck in your bile duct, and

having stones up against the duct ready for release. a stone in the duct

would probably make you feel like vomiting or in pain, whereas i think what

you are describing is just alot of stones ready to be flushed.

i do flushes sometimes 4 nights in a row. basically i do as many as i can

handle. i only use i tablespoon of epsom salt about 20 minutes before the

oil/grapefruit. this prevents me from getting too dehydrated.

June 20, 2003

If you had a stuck stone you would be in SEVERE pain, I mean bad. I think

Natures Sunshine has a website, but I think you have to order from someone

that sells it, I think there are people in the group that do, other wise

maybe there website has a list of them in your area. I did 3 flushes and one

time i got a stone stuck, but I got them stuck by eating anyway so I didnt

rush to the hopsital or anything, it just unstuck itself.

>From: " serricat " <serricat@...>

>Reply-gallstones

>gallstones

>Subject: Re: Help - Stuck Stones

>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:03:41 -0000

>

>Thanks for all the posts. I may try the parasite cleanse. I haven't

>done that yet. Does Nature's Sunshine have a web site? As far as

>changing the diet goes, I have already done that and yet it doesn't

>seem to matter what I eat it all hurts. It's not the doubled over

>kind of pain that most people desribe here. It's more like just an

>ache in my side that never quits. I eat lots of vegetables and

>fruits. I buy most of my food from the organic grocers. I'm just

>trying to figure out what the problem is. Maybe I'm just being

>impatient. I have only been experiencing pain since Feb, so maybe it

>just takes awhile for the cleansing to work. So I guess my question

>is: How would someone know they have a stuck stone? Also, to the

>people who have done many flushes, did you still have pain during

>that time or did it go away immediately? Thanks,

>

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June 21, 2003

wrote:

" If you had a stuck stone you would be in SEVERE pain, I mean bad " .

le:

Sorry. I disagree with you. I have been living with stuck stones for years,

and the pain increases according to their size or/and softness.

Juicing and cold pressed oils soften them and slowly dissolve them

----- Original Message -----

From: Schurdevin

gallstones

Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 6:03 AM