Guest guest Posted December 14, 2005 Report Share Posted December 14, 2005 > > ... > I*m also thinking of distilling at least one ingredient to get > its oil for sale. You mean a steam distillation? > If I had a line of my own I would have grouped with > other natural perfumers and approached super perfume stores like > Sephora and asked them if they would create a section for Natural > Perfumes, after all, all they want is make more money. One problem may be that these large stores will want their suppliers to have liability insurance so that they won't be the deep pocket in the event of a product liability lawsuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2005 Report Share Posted December 14, 2005 > > > > ... > > I*m also thinking of distilling at least one ingredient to get > > its oil for sale. > You mean a steam distillation? > > > If I had a line of my own I would have grouped with > > other natural perfumers and approached super perfume stores like > > Sephora and asked them if they would create a section for Natural > > Perfumes, after all, all they want is make more money. > One problem may be that these large stores will want their suppliers to > have liability insurance so that they won't be the deep pocket in the > event of a product liability lawsuit. The only way to go is to incorporate and get liability insurance. Steam distillation is what I meant. n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2005 Report Share Posted December 14, 2005 > ....If I had a line of my own I would have grouped with > other natural perfumers and approached super perfume stores like > Sephora and asked them if they would create a section for Natural > Perfumes, after all, all they want is make more money. Wish me luck, I > wish you all the same in return! > > n Hi n, Have you looked at this UK perfume shop? :-) http://scent-systems.com/ LLx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2005 Report Share Posted December 14, 2005 > > > ....If I had a line of my own I would have grouped with > > other natural perfumers and approached super perfume stores like > > Sephora and asked them if they would create a section for Natural > > Perfumes, after all, all they want is make more money. Wish me luck, I > > wish you all the same in return! > > > > n > > > Hi n, > Have you looked at this UK perfume shop? :-) > http://scent-systems.com/ > > LLx Hi liz, Thank you for the link, very inspiring, some of their prices seem way too high. n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2005 Report Share Posted December 14, 2005 At 12:08 PM 12/14/2005, you wrote: >I think it won*t be long before perfume stores will have a special >section where they will sell *natural perfumes*. Could be, n, but maybe you don't know there already are such stores, some even all-natural. >I believe that in time all big brands of perfumes will come up with a >*natural*, the trouble for us in the group is that the price of the >raw materials will skyrocket and some of the ingredients will >eventually become unavailable to us like cédrat and the hard to find >linden blossom. Then we'll adapt. I don't see it as being a big deal. I don't even see it as being reality ;-) I remember about five years ago when Coke added vanilla coke to its lineup. Due to natural disasters, political turmoils, weather problems, the cost of vanilla skyrocketed and dire predictions were made about future availability since it was believed Coke would have the crops all sewed up. Didn't happen. Other countries started growing vanilla, India particularly, weather settled down, politics settled down, etc. Vanilla prices stabilized. Ditto happened with patchouli a few years ago. The perfumers are used to this, and predictions of raw materials evaporating are greatly exaggerated >Before I forget, I believe that the top/heart green >note in EL Private collection is linden blossom and I mean the fresh >blossom on the tree with a trace if mimosa, but a perfumer*s olfactory >description contradicts me, The true abs doesn't smell like the blossom on the tree, so it's probably synth. >I am determined to create at least 2 good blends and probably a unisex >eau. I*m also thinking of distilling at least one ingredient to get >its oil for sale. That's great, and I know of a few others on the group who distill their oils -- Kathleen in Alaska comes to mind, of glissande is another. Terroir and all that ;-) is their motto. Well, it's my take on their motto if they had a motto! >If I had a line of my own I would have grouped with >other natural perfumers and approached super perfume stores like >Sephora and asked them if they would create a section for Natural >Perfumes, after all, all they want is make more money. Wish me luck, I >wish you all the same in return! Wouldn't go with Sephora, they're tanking quite a bit. Didn't they close down their flagship store in Paris? Wouldn't go with my aesthetics and sensibilities, either, but everyone is different. Don't know if many of us could keep up the manufacturing and demands of such a liaison, either. It's a good ambitious idea you have there, and I do wish you luck. Anya http://.com The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume / Join to study natural perfumery " The Age of the Foodie is passé. It is now the Age of the Scentie. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 I'm writing this more for the benefit of responses than really for what it's worth. You know that I went to see my doc recently and total T was 292. Her persistent " treat the numbers and not the symptoms " attitude prompted me to make an appointment with my uro for the 20th. I'm not sure it will do any good either but it's worth a shot. I've suffered with all they symptoms of low T for around 3 years and I'm 39 years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife has experienced a very early and complete menopause at 43 years of age. She just started HRT but I can find very few articles anywhere on the benefit of HRT for women. In fact, everything you read seems to draw folks away from any type of HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of a grow old gracefully attitude. It's funny. I wasn't expecting that life would simply be over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it people while you can. The years between 18 and 30 will be the best and after that you can look forward to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, diabetes and a whole host of other things because " that's the way nature intended. " Isn't it great having docs out there who " treat the numbers " when some of the low ranges are so low that dead people have higher numbers than those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if any of this fight is even worth it. Did I mention that I'm now waking up with night sweats and anxiety attacks? I should just learn to accept this I suppose. Christ, my 80 year old grandfather didn't complain like this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 Sky, in my lifelong experience of dealing with hypogonadism and the many effects and side effects, I belive getting proper medical care is most essential.  From the time I was born ( with undescended testes) I received very poor medical care. It was not because it was not available. It was because there were not enough questions asked by my parents when I was a child and by ME as an adult.  I now find myself at age 51 dealing with no testes due to orchiectomies and the surgical removal of man boobs ( in 1992) that I developed in my teens.  I am also dealing with low t-levels along with an extreme sadness and anger over the past. I want this to change and it will because I am sick and tired of being sicked and tired.  I just had my t-levels blood test on Friday. It will take a few days to get the results.  Depending on the numbers and my doctors approach, I may find a new doctor. It was very difficult to tell my doctor ( a woman) about my inability to achieve an erection among other problems I am having. It is my body and my life. I have the right to receive the best care I can get. The question " Are we doomed? " is valid.  Are we doomed to a life time of " male problems " ?   I am alone in feeling angry about it? Does it make me sad? YES! However, now that I know that I am not alone and there are resources out there, I can recover and live a good life. ( the funny thing about the last sentence I wrote; I wrote " and love a good life " by mistake.  I meant that too)  I dont want ramble but I am glad to have found this site and thankful for the people that contribute and the moderators that keep it going.  I couldnt talk or write about this stuff a few years ago but can now.  From: skywalker45_99 <skywalker45_99@...> Subject: Are we doomed? Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 7:37 PM I'm writing this more for the benefit of responses than really for what it's worth. You know that I went to see my doc recently and total T was 292. Her persistent " treat the numbers and not the symptoms " attitude prompted me to make an appointment with my uro for the 20th. I'm not sure it will do any good either but it's worth a shot. I've suffered with all they symptoms of low T for around 3 years and I'm 39 years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife has experienced a very early and complete menopause at 43 years of age. She just started HRT but I can find very few articles anywhere on the benefit of HRT for women. In fact, everything you read seems to draw folks away from any type of HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of a grow old gracefully attitude. It's funny. I wasn't expecting that life would simply be over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it people while you can. The years between 18 and 30 will be the best and after that you can look forward to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, diabetes and a whole host of other things because " that's the way nature intended. " Isn't it great having docs out there who " treat the numbers " when some of the low ranges are so low that dead people have higher numbers than those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if any of this fight is even worth it. Did I mention that I'm now waking up with night sweats and anxiety attacks? I should just learn to accept this I suppose. Christ, my 80 year old grandfather didn't complain like this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 Thank you for your contribution to this thread . It means a lot to me personally and I'm sure to everyone who will read it. I really didn't mean to sound like a fatalist in my original post but the truth is I'm beginning to get the feeling that no doc really cares about my symptoms so why bother even trying. I've already decided that if I can't convince my uro that something is seriously wrong what with all my symptoms that I'm going to see Dr. Crisler even though he's a few hundred miles from me. I simply don't believe there are any docs in my area who want, or even really know how to treat male hormonal issues and most likely subscribe to " the dangers outweigh the benefits " model. Again thank you for your post and I wish you the best. > > From: skywalker45_99 <skywalker45_99@...> > Subject: Are we doomed? > > Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 7:37 PM > > > > > > > I'm writing this more for the benefit of responses than really for > what it's worth. You know that I went to see my doc recently and total > T was 292. Her persistent " treat the numbers and not the symptoms " > attitude prompted me to make an appointment with my uro for the 20th. > I'm not sure it will do any good either but it's worth a shot. I've > suffered with all they symptoms of low T for around 3 years and I'm 39 > years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife has experienced a very early > and complete menopause at 43 years of age. She just started HRT but I can > find very few articles anywhere on the benefit of HRT for women. In > fact, everything you read seems to draw folks away from any type of > HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of a grow old gracefully > attitude. It's funny. I wasn't expecting that life would simply be > over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it people while you can. The years > between 18 and 30 will be the best and after that you can look forward > to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, diabetes and a whole host of > other things because " that's the way nature intended. " > > Isn't it great having docs out there who " treat the numbers " when some > of the low ranges are so low that dead people have higher numbers than > those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if any of this fight is even > worth it. > > Did I mention that I'm now waking up with night sweats and anxiety > attacks? I should just learn to accept this I suppose. Christ, my 80 > year old grandfather didn't complain like this! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 Sky, I always left my docks office with unanswered questions, so I now make it a habit to write them down afore hand, and give them to him or her when we first get together. We go over my questions together, of course I keep a copy as well. Perhaps doing so, writing your questions down may help you get answers, you desperately need. You may have every right to live a good life, but it may not happen if you do not learn to speak up for yourself. There are times we must be adament and demand that our needs be met. kind regards david a Are we doomed? Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 7:37 PM I'm writing this more for the benefit of responses than really for what it's worth. You know that I went to see my doc recently and total T was 292. Her persistent " treat the numbers and not the symptoms " attitude prompted me to make an appointment with my uro for the 20th. I'm not sure it will do any good either but it's worth a shot. I've suffered with all they symptoms of low T for around 3 years and I'm 39 years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife has experienced a very early and complete menopause at 43 years of age. She just started HRT but I can find very few articles anywhere on the benefit of HRT for women. In fact, everything you read seems to draw folks away from any type of HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of a grow old gracefully attitude. It's funny. I wasn't expecting that life would simply be over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it people while you can. The years between 18 and 30 will be the best and after that you can look forward to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, diabetes and a whole host of other things because " that's the way nature intended. " Isn't it great having docs out there who " treat the numbers " when some of the low ranges are so low that dead people have higher numbers than those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if any of this fight is even worth it. Did I mention that I'm now waking up with night sweats and anxiety attacks? I should just learn to accept this I suppose. Christ, my 80 year old grandfather didn't complain like this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 No Sky, I do not think we are doomed except in ignorance. I was 45 when originally diagnosed with a TT level of 240 (350-850)and a FT level of 47 (50-250). The fact is, in hindsight, I was dealing with low T symptoms as early as 40, I just didn't know it. Of all of the things that I faced, the night sweats were the hardest to accept mentally and emotionally. The anxiety was unbearable at times and I never knew what anxiety was before my " critical point. " Wow. It is tough and while we never know what another is experiencing we do know some of it. One of the most profound things my doctor said to me when were in the initial phases of diagnosis is " when we get you well you are going to realize just how sick you were. " Boy was he right. He was a great physician, a healer, a person who responded to me, not my numbers. My purpose in writing this is to encourage you to find a physician who will focus on you, whether a GP, URO, ENDO, doesn't matter, as long as they focus on you. My best help came from a general practioner. I use ENDO and URO to keep a close eye on all risks and signs. Fortunately, neither of these guys are focused on numbers either but instead focus on me. Today, with 100 mg injections weekly I do ok. Is it like my 30's, can I count on a good night's sleep every night? No, on both counts. But am I healthier than I was with low T? ABSOLUTELY. I find the guys here and their stories to be supportive. To just know that another man walked through the fire of night sweats, or experienced anxiety that could be debilitating, and emerged from the test is inspiring. You are facing a tough time but many here have endured it and come out on the other side, may you take comfort in this fact and find strength. Darrell > > From: skywalker45_99 <skywalker45_99@...> > Subject: Are we doomed? > > Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 7:37 PM > > > > > > > I'm writing this more for the benefit of responses than really for > what it's worth. You know that I went to see my doc recently and total > T was 292. Her persistent " treat the numbers and not the symptoms " > attitude prompted me to make an appointment with my uro for the 20th. > I'm not sure it will do any good either but it's worth a shot. I've > suffered with all they symptoms of low T for around 3 years and I'm 39 > years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife has experienced a very early > and complete menopause at 43 years of age. She just started HRT but I can > find very few articles anywhere on the benefit of HRT for women. In > fact, everything you read seems to draw folks away from any type of > HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of a grow old gracefully > attitude. It's funny. I wasn't expecting that life would simply be > over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it people while you can. The years > between 18 and 30 will be the best and after that you can look forward > to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, diabetes and a whole host of > other things because " that's the way nature intended. " > > Isn't it great having docs out there who " treat the numbers " when some > of the low ranges are so low that dead people have higher numbers than > those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if any of this fight is even > worth it. > > Did I mention that I'm now waking up with night sweats and anxiety > attacks? I should just learn to accept this I suppose. Christ, my 80 > year old grandfather didn't complain like this! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 Skywalker, One approach is to go to a good doc, even if he is far away from you, and get on a treatment program. Then when you shop for a new doc near you, you can negotiate from a position of strength. Tell him that you are on a TRT program, but you are tired of driving so far to see your current doc. It is a lot easier to convince a doc to continue a treatment program that works than it is to get them to try something that isn't spelled out in the CMDT (Current Medical Diagnoses & Treatment) manual. Also, due to abuse by athletes and the rich and vain, docs that prescribe hGH and TRT come under a lot of scrutiny so many of the medical community avoid male hormone replacement if at all possible. It sucks for those of us that need hormone replacement for health and well being... -Mike > > > > From: skywalker45_99 <skywalker45_99@> > > Subject: Are we doomed? > > > > Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 7:37 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm writing this more for the benefit of responses than really for > > what it's worth. You know that I went to see my doc recently and total > > T was 292. Her persistent " treat the numbers and not the symptoms " > > attitude prompted me to make an appointment with my uro for the 20th. > > I'm not sure it will do any good either but it's worth a shot. I've > > suffered with all they symptoms of low T for around 3 years and I'm 39 > > years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife has experienced a very early > > and complete menopause at 43 years of age. She just started HRT but > I can > > find very few articles anywhere on the benefit of HRT for women. In > > fact, everything you read seems to draw folks away from any type of > > HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of a grow old gracefully > > attitude. It's funny. I wasn't expecting that life would simply be > > over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it people while you can. The years > > between 18 and 30 will be the best and after that you can look forward > > to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, diabetes and a whole host of > > other things because " that's the way nature intended. " > > > > Isn't it great having docs out there who " treat the numbers " when some > > of the low ranges are so low that dead people have higher numbers than > > those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if any of this fight is even > > worth it. > > > > Did I mention that I'm now waking up with night sweats and anxiety > > attacks? I should just learn to accept this I suppose. Christ, my 80 > > year old grandfather didn't complain like this! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 From the tone of your post and my own experience I know that stories of it could be worse are not what you want or need. Like you my symptoms started in my early 30s and the lack of knowledgeable Dr's led to 10 years of suffering. I still am not at a level that is acceptable but there is hope. Don't give up and keep fighting for a better life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I hope that you are able to get to the levels needed to make you feel well. I'm not going to give up but I have to admit it's been difficult. You know I can't live on Klonopin to keep the anxiety at bay which is just another symptom of what's not being treated. There are just way too many things to worry about. > > From the tone of your post and my own experience I know that stories of > it could be worse are not what you want or need. > Like you my symptoms started in my early 30s and the lack of > knowledgeable Dr's led to 10 years of suffering. > > I still am not at a level that is acceptable but there is hope. > > Don't give up and keep fighting for a better life > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I guess I should put in a few bits about my story. I have a pituitary problem. There is either some scar tissue or a small benign tumor that keeps things pretty depressed most of the time. The kicker is that some times it sends me off to hyper land and I get the hump on the back of my neck that goes with Cushing's. The docs thought I had hashi's but it is all pituitary... So, my turning point is when the docs were really pushing weight loss surgery on me. I had attributed the loss of libido, night sweats, irritability, lethargy, and all those other low testosterone symptoms to being overweight. I became a vegetarian and starved my self while working out like crazy. I only lost 5 lbs a month and wound up hurting myself a lot. What's worse, the weight was coming off of every where but my chest. With the pseudo gynecomastia and tender nipples, I finally got pissed off enough to get a second opinion. My T was 222, my SHBG was 60 and my E2 was over 100. I told the doc, " So I'm pregnant? That would explain the difficulty in losing weight. " This doc wanted to start me off with no arimidex and 5 grams of gel. I got a 3rd opinion and found a doc that would treat the elevated E2 as well as the depressed T. After getting established on this program, I went shopping for a new PCP. Now I've got 2 docs that know their shit and things are definitely improving. I've lost just about 100 lbs this year. Now I feel like King Kong, but my wife isn't able to keep up. She has PCOS and we are working on getting that sorted out. There are some very good docs out there. You just have to be persistent and not put up with any crap. When you T levels are low, it is very hard to have that frame of mind. I know. I suffered with this to some degree most of my life. Just have faith, when you do get it sorted out, you will feel as good as or maybe even better than you have your whole life. Hang in there man. -Mike > > > > > > From: skywalker45_99 <skywalker45_99@> > > > Subject: Are we doomed? > > > > > > Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 7:37 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm writing this more for the benefit of responses than really for > > > what it's worth. You know that I went to see my doc recently and total > > > T was 292. Her persistent " treat the numbers and not the symptoms " > > > attitude prompted me to make an appointment with my uro for the 20th. > > > I'm not sure it will do any good either but it's worth a shot. I've > > > suffered with all they symptoms of low T for around 3 years and I'm 39 > > > years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife has experienced a very early > > > and complete menopause at 43 years of age. She just started HRT but > > I can > > > find very few articles anywhere on the benefit of HRT for women. In > > > fact, everything you read seems to draw folks away from any type of > > > HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of a grow old gracefully > > > attitude. It's funny. I wasn't expecting that life would simply be > > > over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it people while you can. The years > > > between 18 and 30 will be the best and after that you can look forward > > > to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, diabetes and a whole host of > > > other things because " that's the way nature intended. " > > > > > > Isn't it great having docs out there who " treat the numbers " when some > > > of the low ranges are so low that dead people have higher numbers than > > > those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if any of this fight is even > > > worth it. > > > > > > Did I mention that I'm now waking up with night sweats and anxiety > > > attacks? I should just learn to accept this I suppose. Christ, my 80 > > > year old grandfather didn't complain like this! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 And another thing. Doc checked B12 that day too. B12 was normal but she said I should do a sublingual B12 daily. It would probably make me feel better, she said! WTF?? She's going to treat something that is in the mid to high range of normal but not address my plummeting T levels?! Strange indeed. > > I'm writing this more for the benefit of responses than really for > what it's worth. You know that I went to see my doc recently and total > T was 292. Her persistent " treat the numbers and not the symptoms " > attitude prompted me to make an appointment with my uro for the 20th. > I'm not sure it will do any good either but it's worth a shot. I've > suffered with all they symptoms of low T for around 3 years and I'm 39 > years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife has experienced a very early > and complete menopause at 43 years of age. She just started HRT but I can > find very few articles anywhere on the benefit of HRT for women. In > fact, everything you read seems to draw folks away from any type of > HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of a grow old gracefully > attitude. It's funny. I wasn't expecting that life would simply be > over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it people while you can. The years > between 18 and 30 will be the best and after that you can look forward > to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, diabetes and a whole host of > other things because " that's the way nature intended. " > > Isn't it great having docs out there who " treat the numbers " when some > of the low ranges are so low that dead people have higher numbers than > those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if any of this fight is even > worth it. > > Did I mention that I'm now waking up with night sweats and anxiety > attacks? I should just learn to accept this I suppose. Christ, my 80 > year old grandfather didn't complain like this! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Mike, Good job losing 100 lbs I am in he same boat your in and wish I would drop a 100 lbs I do Weight Watchers to keep from gaining weight. Every time things get good and I start losing something goes wrong and I get set back and the weight comes back on. Feeling like I do now can't get any exercise. I wonder if my pituitary is doing what yours does fires on and off. This last set back is my Dr.'s fault he had me on iron pills and levels were coming up but slow been 12 months. And the iron levels coming up made my Armour work better and I went hyper on my thyroid so my Dr. lowered my Armour but went down to low so here I am starting over again. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Mike Lawson <mlawson66@...> > Subject: Re: Are we doomed? > > Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 10:47 AM > I guess I should put in a few bits about my story. > > I have a pituitary problem. There is either some scar > tissue or a small benign tumor that keeps things > pretty depressed most of the time. The kicker is > that some times it sends me off to hyper land > and I get the hump on the back of my neck that > goes with Cushing's. The docs thought I had > hashi's but it is all pituitary... > > So, my turning point is when the docs were really > pushing weight loss surgery on me. I had attributed > the loss of libido, night sweats, irritability, lethargy, > and all those other low testosterone symptoms to > being overweight. I became a vegetarian and > starved my self while working out like crazy. I only > lost 5 lbs a month and wound up hurting myself > a lot. What's worse, the weight was coming off > of every where but my chest. With the pseudo > gynecomastia and tender nipples, I finally got > pissed off enough to get a second opinion. My > T was 222, my SHBG was 60 and my E2 was over > 100. I told the doc, " So I'm pregnant? That > would > explain the difficulty in losing weight. " This doc > wanted to start me off with no arimidex and 5 > grams of gel. I got a 3rd opinion and found > a doc that would treat the elevated E2 as well > as the depressed T. After getting established > on this program, I went shopping for a new > PCP. Now I've got 2 docs that know their shit > and things are definitely improving. I've lost > just about 100 lbs this year. Now I feel like > King Kong, but my wife isn't able to keep up. > She has PCOS and we are working on getting > that sorted out. There are some very good > docs out there. You just have to be persistent > and not put up with any crap. When you T > levels are low, it is very hard to have that frame > of mind. I know. I suffered with this to some > degree most of my life. Just have faith, when > you do get it sorted out, you will feel as good > as or maybe even better than you have your > whole life. > > Hang in there man. > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: skywalker45_99 <skywalker45_99@> > > > > Subject: Are we doomed? > > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 7:37 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm writing this more for the benefit of > responses than really for > > > > what it's worth. You know that I went to > see my doc recently and total > > > > T was 292. Her persistent " treat the > numbers and not the symptoms " > > > > attitude prompted me to make an appointment > with my uro for the 20th. > > > > I'm not sure it will do any good either > but it's worth a shot. I've > > > > suffered with all they symptoms of low T for > around 3 years and I'm 39 > > > > years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife > has experienced a very early > > > > and complete menopause at 43 years of age. > She just started HRT but > > > I can > > > > find very few articles anywhere on the > benefit of HRT for women. In > > > > fact, everything you read seems to draw > folks away from any type of > > > > HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of > a grow old gracefully > > > > attitude. It's funny. I wasn't > expecting that life would simply be > > > > over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it > people while you can. The years > > > > between 18 and 30 will be the best and after > that you can look forward > > > > to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, > diabetes and a whole host of > > > > other things because " that's the > way nature intended. " > > > > > > > > Isn't it great having docs out there who > " treat the numbers " when some > > > > of the low ranges are so low that dead > people have higher numbers than > > > > those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if > any of this fight is even > > > > worth it. > > > > > > > > Did I mention that I'm now waking up > with night sweats and anxiety > > > > attacks? I should just learn to accept this > I suppose. Christ, my 80 > > > > year old grandfather didn't complain > like this! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Still you would do goog to take that B-12 blood labs are not good for checking vit.'s. I have lost count on how many tested high for B-12 and went doing the right test ended they were low. http://www.spectracell.com/ Co-Moderator Phil > From: skywalker45_99 <skywalker45_99@...> > Subject: Re: Are we doomed? > > Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 1:17 PM > And another thing. Doc checked B12 that day too. B12 was > normal but > she said I should do a sublingual B12 daily. It would > probably make me > feel better, she said! WTF?? She's going to treat > something that is in > the mid to high range of normal but not address my > plummeting T > levels?! Strange indeed. > > > > > > I'm writing this more for the benefit of responses > than really for > > what it's worth. You know that I went to see my > doc recently and total > > T was 292. Her persistent " treat the numbers and > not the symptoms " > > attitude prompted me to make an appointment with my > uro for the 20th. > > I'm not sure it will do any good either but > it's worth a shot. I've > > suffered with all they symptoms of low T for around 3 > years and I'm 39 > > years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife has > experienced a very early > > and complete menopause at 43 years of age. She just > started HRT but > I can > > find very few articles anywhere on the benefit of HRT > for women. In > > fact, everything you read seems to draw folks away > from any type of > > HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of a grow old > gracefully > > attitude. It's funny. I wasn't expecting that > life would simply be > > over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it people while > you can. The years > > between 18 and 30 will be the best and after that you > can look forward > > to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, diabetes and > a whole host of > > other things because " that's the way nature > intended. " > > > > Isn't it great having docs out there who > " treat the numbers " when some > > of the low ranges are so low that dead people have > higher numbers than > > those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if any of this > fight is even > > worth it. > > > > Did I mention that I'm now waking up with night > sweats and anxiety > > attacks? I should just learn to accept this I suppose. > Christ, my 80 > > year old grandfather didn't complain like this! > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Thanks Phil! Aw man, that sucks. I remember starving myself and working out 5 days a week for an hour at a time on the elliptical machines, and it was 5 lbs a month. I lost 25 in a month when I started on Armour, and another 15 when I started on TRT and got my E2 under control. I hope you get your Armour dose where it needs to be soon, that sure helps with the weight loss and energy. Hey, here's something else that works for me. I've got lots of aches and pains, and my stomach can't take too many NSAIDS, so my wife got me an Infrared Sauna. That really helps with the aches and pains, plus it burns calories with ZERO impact. I hear you about the set backs. For me it used to be getting sick and/or aggravating one of my old injuries (1 knee and both ankles) that would set me back for a couple or 3 weeks at a time. Now it is just the knee and ankles, but the Sauna helps a lot with them. It also is very good about detoxing heavy metals out of your system. I highly recommend them... > > > > > > > > > > From: skywalker45_99 <skywalker45_99@> > > > > > Subject: Are we doomed? > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 7:37 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm writing this more for the benefit of > > responses than really for > > > > > what it's worth. You know that I went to > > see my doc recently and total > > > > > T was 292. Her persistent " treat the > > numbers and not the symptoms " > > > > > attitude prompted me to make an appointment > > with my uro for the 20th. > > > > > I'm not sure it will do any good either > > but it's worth a shot. I've > > > > > suffered with all they symptoms of low T for > > around 3 years and I'm 39 > > > > > years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife > > has experienced a very early > > > > > and complete menopause at 43 years of age. > > She just started HRT but > > > > I can > > > > > find very few articles anywhere on the > > benefit of HRT for women. In > > > > > fact, everything you read seems to draw > > folks away from any type of > > > > > HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of > > a grow old gracefully > > > > > attitude. It's funny. I wasn't > > expecting that life would simply be > > > > > over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it > > people while you can. The years > > > > > between 18 and 30 will be the best and after > > that you can look forward > > > > > to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, > > diabetes and a whole host of > > > > > other things because " that's the > > way nature intended. " > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it great having docs out there who > > " treat the numbers " when some > > > > > of the low ranges are so low that dead > > people have higher numbers than > > > > > those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if > > any of this fight is even > > > > > worth it. > > > > > > > > > > Did I mention that I'm now waking up > > with night sweats and anxiety > > > > > attacks? I should just learn to accept this > > I suppose. Christ, my 80 > > > > > year old grandfather didn't complain > > like this! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Yeah, I am doing the B12 because I know that a lot of times RDA's suck and labs can be messed up when it comes to vit's. > > > > > > I'm writing this more for the benefit of responses > > than really for > > > what it's worth. You know that I went to see my > > doc recently and total > > > T was 292. Her persistent " treat the numbers and > > not the symptoms " > > > attitude prompted me to make an appointment with my > > uro for the 20th. > > > I'm not sure it will do any good either but > > it's worth a shot. I've > > > suffered with all they symptoms of low T for around 3 > > years and I'm 39 > > > years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife has > > experienced a very early > > > and complete menopause at 43 years of age. She just > > started HRT but > > I can > > > find very few articles anywhere on the benefit of HRT > > for women. In > > > fact, everything you read seems to draw folks away > > from any type of > > > HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of a grow old > > gracefully > > > attitude. It's funny. I wasn't expecting that > > life would simply be > > > over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it people while > > you can. The years > > > between 18 and 30 will be the best and after that you > > can look forward > > > to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, diabetes and > > a whole host of > > > other things because " that's the way nature > > intended. " > > > > > > Isn't it great having docs out there who > > " treat the numbers " when some > > > of the low ranges are so low that dead people have > > higher numbers than > > > those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if any of this > > fight is even > > > worth it. > > > > > > Did I mention that I'm now waking up with night > > sweats and anxiety > > > attacks? I should just learn to accept this I suppose. > > Christ, my 80 > > > year old grandfather didn't complain like this! > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Yes when my levels for all hormones are good I lose weight fast just the spring I went down 40 lbs in 12 weeks. I have a SPA off my bedroom I have a doorwall in my bedroom with a deck off it and the spa is on the deck helps a lot I go into it most monings. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Mike Lawson <mlawson66@...> > Subject: Re: Are we doomed? > > Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 2:42 PM > Thanks Phil! > > Aw man, that sucks. I remember starving myself and working > out > 5 days a week for an hour at a time on the elliptical > machines, and > it was 5 lbs a month. I lost 25 in a month when I started > on > Armour, and another 15 when I started on TRT and got my E2 > under control. I hope you get your Armour dose where it > needs > to be soon, that sure helps with the weight loss and > energy. > > Hey, here's something else that works for me. I've > got lots of > aches and pains, and my stomach can't take too many > NSAIDS, > so my wife got me an Infrared Sauna. That really helps > with > the aches and pains, plus it burns calories with ZERO > impact. > > I hear you about the set backs. For me it used to be > getting sick > and/or aggravating one of my old injuries (1 knee and both > ankles) > that would set me back for a couple or 3 weeks at a time. > Now it > is just the knee and ankles, but the Sauna helps a lot with > them. > It also is very good about detoxing heavy metals out of > your system. > > I highly recommend them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: skywalker45_99 > <skywalker45_99@> > > > > > > Subject: Are we > doomed? > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, > 7:37 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm writing this more for the > benefit of > > > responses than really for > > > > > > what it's worth. You know that > I went to > > > see my doc recently and total > > > > > > T was 292. Her persistent > " treat the > > > numbers and not the symptoms " > > > > > > attitude prompted me to make an > appointment > > > with my uro for the 20th. > > > > > > I'm not sure it will do any > good either > > > but it's worth a shot. I've > > > > > > suffered with all they symptoms of > low T for > > > around 3 years and I'm 39 > > > > > > years old. Luckily (or unluckily) > my wife > > > has experienced a very early > > > > > > and complete menopause at 43 years > of age. > > > She just started HRT but > > > > > I can > > > > > > find very few articles anywhere on > the > > > benefit of HRT for women. In > > > > > > fact, everything you read seems to > draw > > > folks away from any type of > > > > > > HRT including TRT in most cases in > favor of > > > a grow old gracefully > > > > > > attitude. It's funny. I > wasn't > > > expecting that life would simply be > > > > > > over when I turned 35. Better > enjoy it > > > people while you can. The years > > > > > > between 18 and 30 will be the best > and after > > > that you can look forward > > > > > > to enlarged prostates, heart > disease, ED, > > > diabetes and a whole host of > > > > > > other things because > " that's the > > > way nature intended. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it great having docs out > there who > > > " treat the numbers " when some > > > > > > of the low ranges are so low that > dead > > > people have higher numbers than > > > > > > those of their ranges? Makes me > wonder if > > > any of this fight is even > > > > > > worth it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I mention that I'm now > waking up > > > with night sweats and anxiety > > > > > > attacks? I should just learn to > accept this > > > I suppose. Christ, my 80 > > > > > > year old grandfather didn't > complain > > > like this! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Hiya peoples. I've been here for a number of years now and every now and then contribute. This thread is so so similar to my own story.......I just had to reply. I too have had a weight issue...........this is what started the whole damn investigation in the first place. I grew 2 inches around the waist in a month.......no change in usual activites........I had water dropletss oozing out of the front of my legs from adoema and weighed over 490lbl. I'm not stupid............you simply cannot be this weight unless you are overeating/drinking or else there is something else wrong! I ate sure I did and drank too................but not enough to warrent or justify my weight................turns out my hormones are all screwed up...........total T last test was 2.6 (lab ref 13-35) and that is taking 1 ampule sustenon every 5 days IM- bloods taken am on the morning I am due an injection. My growth hormone is low. LH and FSH both less than 1............my estrogen (estradiol) last test was 351 (lab ref 0-150). I was denied hormone treatment except for testosterone....on the basis of cost..............my given option was for surgery - weight loss surgery - I agreed, because the weight had to come off - and personally prefered the quicker route than the slower route. Dr's opinion is that the hormones will kick in as the weight comes off........................unfortunately........I've done my research and we don't agree.............you see hormones can cause the weight problem..................and the weight problem can cause the hormones...................here we go.......the chicken and egg scenario. I say egg the Dr says chicken..........any way to cut a short story long..............I've had a duodenal switch operation done in 2 stages....they reckoned I wouldn't have survived it all in one go............to date I have lost 182lb (in 18months). Which is great and goes a long way to help me with my health. I don't have a lot of the weight related problems I had and do feel much better. I am no longer needing to take certain medications eg statins or blood pressure meds. So now I have my ammunition.................having done all that they asked of me................can we please address the hormone issues...................if not.....see ya.........I'll find another DR. My GP who has so far be sitting on the fence..............agrees. ( I am in the UK....it's the way the system works here) Sometimes the road is rocky..........at times very rocky......but you hang on in there matey...............our routes may have been different...............but the outcome is the same, we hope. For those of you who are on the journey...............we understand...........it's not always easy........but persevere Steve > > > > > > From: skywalker45_99 <skywalker45_99@> > > > Subject: Are we doomed? > > > > > > Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 7:37 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm writing this more for the benefit of responses than really for > > > what it's worth. You know that I went to see my doc recently and total > > > T was 292. Her persistent " treat the numbers and not the symptoms " > > > attitude prompted me to make an appointment with my uro for the 20th. > > > I'm not sure it will do any good either but it's worth a shot. I've > > > suffered with all they symptoms of low T for around 3 years and I'm 39 > > > years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife has experienced a very early > > > and complete menopause at 43 years of age. She just started HRT but > > I can > > > find very few articles anywhere on the benefit of HRT for women. In > > > fact, everything you read seems to draw folks away from any type of > > > HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of a grow old gracefully > > > attitude. It's funny. I wasn't expecting that life would simply be > > > over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it people while you can. The years > > > between 18 and 30 will be the best and after that you can look forward > > > to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, diabetes and a whole host of > > > other things because " that's the way nature intended. " > > > > > > Isn't it great having docs out there who " treat the numbers " when some > > > of the low ranges are so low that dead people have higher numbers than > > > those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if any of this fight is even > > > worth it. > > > > > > Did I mention that I'm now waking up with night sweats and anxiety > > > attacks? I should just learn to accept this I suppose. Christ, my 80 > > > year old grandfather didn't complain like this! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Steve, It's sad you need to do all that just so they could save money. Now do they treat you for pituitary problems and have they started to check all the hormones that the pituitary has contol over. In my case my Cortisol, Thyroid, Iron, Ferritin and the list is long on what is wrong with me do my my pituitary. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Steve <s.w.johnson@...> > Subject: Re: Are we doomed? > > Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 6:21 PM > Hiya peoples. > > I've been here for a number of years now and every now > and then > contribute. This thread is so so similar to my own > story.......I just > had to reply. > > I too have had a weight issue...........this is what > started the whole > damn investigation in the first place. I grew 2 inches > around the waist > in a month.......no change in usual activites........I had > water > dropletss oozing out of the front of my legs from adoema > and weighed > over 490lbl. I'm not stupid............you simply > cannot be this weight > unless you are overeating/drinking or else there is > something else > wrong! I ate sure I did and drank too................but > not enough to > warrent or justify my weight................turns out my > hormones are > all screwed up...........total T last test was 2.6 (lab ref > 13-35) and > that is taking 1 ampule sustenon every 5 days IM- bloods > taken am on the > morning I am due an injection. My growth hormone is low. > LH and FSH > both less than 1............my estrogen (estradiol) last > test was 351 > (lab ref 0-150). I was denied hormone treatment except for > testosterone....on the basis of cost..............my given > option was > for surgery - weight loss surgery - I agreed, because the > weight had to > come off - and personally prefered the quicker route than > the slower > route. Dr's opinion is that the hormones will kick in > as the weight > comes > off........................unfortunately........I've > done my > research and we don't agree.............you see > hormones can cause the > weight problem..................and the weight problem can > cause the > hormones...................here we go.......the chicken and > egg > scenario. I say egg the Dr says chicken..........any way > to cut a short > story long..............I've had a duodenal switch > operation done in 2 > stages....they reckoned I wouldn't have survived it all > in one > go............to date I have lost 182lb (in 18months). > Which is great > and goes a long way to help me with my health. I don't > have a lot of > the weight related problems I had and do feel much better. > I am no > longer needing to take certain medications eg statins or > blood pressure > meds. So now I have my ammunition.................having > done all that > they asked of me................can we please address the > hormone > issues...................if not.....see ya.........I'll > find another DR. > My GP who has so far be sitting on the > fence..............agrees. ( I am > in the UK....it's the way the system works here) > > Sometimes the road is rocky..........at times very > rocky......but you > hang on in there matey...............our routes may have > been > different...............but the outcome is the same, we > hope. > > For those of you who are on the journey...............we > understand...........it's not always easy........but > persevere > > Steve > > > > > > > > > From: skywalker45_99 <skywalker45_99@> > > > > Subject: Are we doomed? > > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 7:37 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm writing this more for the benefit of > responses than really for > > > > what it's worth. You know that I went to > see my doc recently and > total > > > > T was 292. Her persistent " treat the > numbers and not the symptoms " > > > > attitude prompted me to make an appointment > with my uro for the > 20th. > > > > I'm not sure it will do any good either > but it's worth a shot. > I've > > > > suffered with all they symptoms of low T for > around 3 years and > I'm 39 > > > > years old. Luckily (or unluckily) my wife > has experienced a very > early > > > > and complete menopause at 43 years of age. > She just started HRT > but > > > I can > > > > find very few articles anywhere on the > benefit of HRT for women. > In > > > > fact, everything you read seems to draw > folks away from any type > of > > > > HRT including TRT in most cases in favor of > a grow old gracefully > > > > attitude. It's funny. I wasn't > expecting that life would simply be > > > > over when I turned 35. Better enjoy it > people while you can. The > years > > > > between 18 and 30 will be the best and after > that you can look > forward > > > > to enlarged prostates, heart disease, ED, > diabetes and a whole > host of > > > > other things because " that's the > way nature intended. " > > > > > > > > Isn't it great having docs out there who > " treat the numbers " when > some > > > > of the low ranges are so low that dead > people have higher numbers > than > > > > those of their ranges? Makes me wonder if > any of this fight is > even > > > > worth it. > > > > > > > > Did I mention that I'm now waking up > with night sweats and anxiety > > > > attacks? I should just learn to accept this > I suppose. Christ, my > 80 > > > > year old grandfather didn't complain > like this! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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