Re: I don't think there is a tumor

October 7, 2009

Your LH is quite low ( & your T is painfully low). As you wrote, going on a diet

could have reduced your hormone production. Reduced production of reproductive

hormones and gonadotropins like LH has been found to occur in 1) malnutrition or

starvation, as well as 2) caloric restriction studies on animals.

AACE for hypogonadism would recommend an MRI if the individual had 1) low T & 2)

low LH & FSH 3) without some other known cause which can temporarily cause low

T, such as dieting, illness, etc. I would agree that you probably don't merit

an MRI unless these results are basically unchanged or worsened after your diet.

Fix that diet, retest, and then see what your results are.

~Xian

>

> I don't beleive a MRI of the pituitary is necessary I would say it would be if

I hadn't been normal up until diet induced weight loss. Being 16 I don't know

how a tumor could arise and also even if my levels show pitutary problem. Input

would be nice

> T4 (Free) 1.04 (0.89-1.76)

> TSH 1.17 (.35-5.50)

> LH 2.2 (1.5-9.3)

> Testosterone 96.7 (241-827)

> Normal CBC and Comp Metabolic

> The only other thing the Dr. noticed that was abnormal was a low Hemoglobin

with normal ferratin, Iron and TIBC.

> Hemoglobin 11.9 (13.0-16.0)

> RBC 3.97 (4.70-6.10)

> Hematocrit 34.5 (39-50)

> IGF-1- 243 range (257-601)

> ACTH 23 pg/ml normal with cortisol

>

October 8, 2009

I just don't see it unless our suffering from type 2 diabetes read this cut and

paste from this link.

http://www.worldhealth.net/news/low_testosterone_affects_a_third_of_youn/

I don't see low levels of LH and FSH do to a poor diet.

=========================================================================

Low testosterone affects a third of young men with type 2 diabetes

Posted on 2008-10-13 07:44:36 in Diabetes | Men's Health | Testosterone |

New research has revealed that approximately one third of men aged 18-35 with

type 2 diabetes have low testosterone levels.

Dr. Paresh Dandona and colleagues from the State University of New York at

Buffalo measured circulating testosterone levels in 38 men with type 1 diabetes

and 24 men with type 2 diabetes. Results showed that testosterone levels were

significantly lower in participants with type 2 diabetes than they were in men

with type 1 diabetes. 33% of participants with type 2 diabetes were found to

have low testosterone levels, whilst 58% had testosterone levels that were below

normal for their age. In comparison, just 8% type 1 diabetic patients had

testosterone levels below the lower limit of normal.

The participants with low testosterone also had low levels of luteinizing

hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), thus meaning that they met

diagnostic criteria for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. If left untreated,

hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism may lead to the development of osteoporosis and

cardiovascular disease, as well as loss of sex drive, impotence, and

infertility.

The researchers conclude: â€œYoung type 2 diabetic patients have significantly

lower plasma concentrations of total and free testosterone and inappropriately

low LH and FSH concentrations with a very high prevalence of hypogonadotrophic

hypogonadism, when compared with type 1 diabetic patients of a comparable age.

The potential implications for their sexual and reproductive function during

prime reproductive years are profound.â€

Chandel A, Dhindsa S, Topiwala S, Chaudhuri A, Dandona P.Testosterone

Concentration in Young Patients With Diabetes. Diabetes Care. 2008;31:2013-2017.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Matt <mattobrien71@...>

> Subject: I don't think there is a tumor

>

> Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 10:19 PM

> I don't beleive a MRI of the

> pituitary is necessary I would say it would be if I hadn't

> been normal up until diet induced weight loss. Being 16 I

> don't know how a tumor could arise and also even if my

> levels show pitutary problem. Input would be nice

> T4 (Free) 1.04 (0.89-1.76)

> TSH 1.17 (.35-5.50)

> LH 2.2 (1.5-9.3)

> Testosterone 96.7 (241-827)

> Normal CBC and Comp Metabolic

> The only other thing the Dr. noticed that was abnormal was

> a low Hemoglobin with normal ferratin, Iron and TIBC.

> Hemoglobin 11.9 (13.0-16.0)

> RBC 3.97 (4.70-6.10)

> Hematocrit 34.5 (39-50)

> IGF-1- 243 range (257-601)

> ACTH 23 pg/ml normal with cortisol

>

> ------------------------------------

>

October 8, 2009

Your case is not that difficult. It stems from diet induced stress which

eventually end up burning out your adrenals. Which probably when tested would

show on the low end of normal which is not healthy. I would look at getting all

the building blocks in the proper ratio before even venturing on TRT which your

endo if not has ruled out primary vs secondary would easily loose his licencse

if he prescribe TRT to you.

>

> >

> >Well the problem with the diet induced weight loss is that it happened over a

year ago and I have recovered and gained the weight back over 7 months ago.

Something is not returning to normal. Overall I am wondering does it look like I

have okay pituitary function?

>

> WIth low T, low FSH, LH and IGF it would seem not.

>

October 8, 2009

You tell me that normal = healthy. Look at the general population out there.

ITs going to hell in a handbasket. you start out fine but burn it off during

the day time. Think of it as gas tank. You start with fuel tank in the morning,

but you burn it off during the day with out making a pit stop eventually you run

low.

> >

> > >

> > >Well the problem with the diet induced weight loss is that it happened over

a year ago and I have recovered and gained the weight back over 7 months ago.

Something is not returning to normal. Overall I am wondering does it look like I

have okay pituitary function?

> >

> > WIth low T, low FSH, LH and IGF it would seem not.

> >

>

October 8, 2009

>

> Your case is not that difficult. It stems from diet induced stress which

eventually end up burning out your adrenals.

How do you know? Are you a specialist?

October 8, 2009

> A prolactin test would also help. Prolactinomas are the main reason to

> order MRI in low T cases.

>

Any endocrine specialist worth his or her salt would order an MRI in this

particular case, given that it could stem from a whole host of pituitary-based

problems. I had high prolactin but it turned out to be empty sella syndrome

rather than a prolactinoma. The guy in question - Matt, I think - should insist

on an MRI to rule out all of these potential problems.

October 8, 2009

Some docs treat based on adrenal fatigue *symptoms* more so than lab results

that pertain to adrenal function.

It's tricky because what some people think of as " healthy " could itself be

considered a diet. Not sure what you tried during your diet, but most people

think of caloric restriction in some form as dieting. However, lots of

health-conscious individuals avoid/minimize fat intake on a regular basis, which

can be considered dieting. There are case studies of individuals (including

doctors!) who have adhered to a low fat diet in the presence of significant

stress and minimal sleep. One doctor tested near your total testosterone result

due to the combined stressors. In light of this, I'm curious- do you adhere to

a low fat diet? & are other stressors like sleep deprivation, academic stress,

frequent (perhaps excessive?) exercise, or anything else like that? It would be

helpful to see which of these stressors, if any, are relevant to your situation.

~Xian

> >

> > >

> > >Well the problem with the diet induced weight loss is that it happened over

a year ago and I have recovered and gained the weight back over 7 months ago.

Something is not returning to normal. Overall I am wondering does it look like I

have okay pituitary function?

> >

> > WIth low T, low FSH, LH and IGF it would seem not.

> >

>

October 8, 2009

Right on Retro- I was about to post that same point.

~Xian

>

> >Your LH is quite low ( & your T is painfully low). As you wrote, going on a

diet could have reduced your hormone production. Reduced production of

reproductive hormones and gonadotropins like LH has been found to occur in 1)

malnutrition or starvation, as well as 2) caloric restriction studies on

animals.

> >

> >AACE for hypogonadism would recommend an MRI if the individual had 1) low T &

2) low LH & FSH 3) without some other known cause which can temporarily cause

low T, such as dieting, illness, etc. I would agree that you probably don't

merit an MRI unless these results are basically unchanged or worsened after your

diet.

>

> A prolactin test would also help. Prolactinomas are the main reason to

> order MRI in low T cases.

>

October 9, 2009

I would test your insulin levels. For god sakes you are barely getting any

protein. Your diet flat out sucks. You need to make cholesterol to make

hormones. You should be having 3 whole organic eggs every day. What is your

cholesterol profile look like? Eating choleseterol does not make cholesterol

thats a load of crap. Again if one examine lifestyle and nutritional pattern

one will find the imbalances that could be behind ones own decline of health.

October 9, 2009

One needs to rule this out. When person comes in they have a or had an MRI,

adrenal saliva test, 21 vials of blood, past history profile, symptoms list to

help us pin point the patients main complaints. We are extremely thorugh and

try to change one variable at time then measure all hormones to make sure there

are no changes. Alot of dr's do not do this. Then they wonder why people end

up feeling like crap and coming to our clinic to fine tune a person's HRT

through examing variables not look by traditional dr's

> > >

> > > >

> > > >Well the problem with the diet induced weight loss is that it happened

over a year ago and I have recovered and gained the weight back over 7 months

ago. Something is not returning to normal. Overall I am wondering does it look

like I have okay pituitary function?

> > >

> > > WIth low T, low FSH, LH and IGF it would seem not.

> > >

> >

October 9, 2009

you can have normal levels but you will end up burning through it by end of the

day leaving you high and dry. This is why all new patients get adrenal saliva

test before coming into their appointments to rule this issue out. Take a look,

Normal is not considered healthy. Ranges are based upon the average fat and

unhealthy people out there. No wonder our health system is going to hell in a

hand basket. We need not a health care system but a wellness/preventive

approach.

---You ca In , Matt Obrien <mattobrien71@...>

wrote:

>

> That really is what it seems like but I have normal cortisol, androstendione,

and DHEA levels which confuses me

> Cortisol 15 ug/dl 4:00 range 4..0-16

> DHEA 500 ng/dl range 250-900

> androstendione 82 ng/dl range 33-192

>

> ________________________________

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

>

> Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 1:17:29 PM

> Subject: Re: I don't think there is a tumor

>

> Your case is not that difficult. It stems from diet induced stress which

eventually end up burning out your adrenals. Which probably when tested would

show on the low end of normal which is not healthy. I would look at getting all

the building blocks in the proper ratio before even venturing on TRT which your

endo if not has ruled out primary vs secondary would easily loose his licencse

if he prescribe TRT to you.

>

> >

> > >

> > >Well the problem with the diet induced weight loss is that it happened over

a year ago and I have recovered and gained the weight back over 7 months ago.

Something is not returning to normal. Overall I am wondering does it look like I

have okay pituitary function?

> >

> > WIth low T, low FSH, LH and IGF it would seem not.

> >

>

October 9, 2009

>

> I have known Hard for yrs and in a way yes he is an Expert from what he has

been through his self much like my self and he will be a Dr. of Naturopathic

Medicine very soon and the MD. he works this is one of the best Dr.s in the

area.

Then if he is an expert he should know that one cannot give a definitive

diagnosis - as he appears to have done - without first examining the patient and

doing tests.

October 10, 2009

I have dealt with several cases similar to this on and it all can be pinpointed

back to cause and effect. His body is stuck in starvation mod and once he gets

proper assement of this through a good trained physican it will be evident. I

have training alot of other dr's will never have that looks at factors out side

the box to look at root cause rather then just symptoms. I have restarted

numerous young guys that were having issues due to lifestyle, stress and other

imbalances. My reputation speaks for itself on 10,000 of posts on the internet.

Personally Pmgamer and myself have set many trends in aspects of the HRT. We

have both spent thousands of hours educating men from all around the world who

have been properly handled by medical dr's in all corners of the world. I have

clients from australia, england, germany, chille, japan who have had great

success in regaining their health because they could not find a dr willing to

work with them. I am not a Dr (yet), but working on it. I am a specialist in

many ways.

> >

> > Your case is not that difficult. It stems from diet induced stress which

eventually end up burning out your adrenals.

>

> How do you know? Are you a specialist?

>

October 10, 2009