Re: I'll try again with the question

[Guest guest]

Sorry I missed your question No I don't know of any one on TRT for a time that

stopped and got there HPTA jump started again. Even men with Anabolic Steroid

Induced Hypogonadism (ASIH) cant do this. But this dose not mean you sould not

try it if your working with a dam good Dr. like Dr. at

www.allthingsmale.com he has helped some men with Anabolic Steroid Induced

Hypogonadism (ASIH) get jump started again.

Here is a cut and paste of what a Dr. says about this from this link.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/anabolic-steroid-induced-hypogo\

nadism-134241217.html

======================================================================

A lot depends on what was the state of the HPTA before beginning AAS. If you

were normal, and I mean by proven valued and not by what you think. Assuming you

were normal before stating you are in good shape. First T does not inhibit the

HPTA as severely as other AAS. I have patients on T for up to 12-16 months

before coming off. And you are also lucky since equipoise is also light on the

HPTA. There is an excellent chance that your T level when you stopped was

~2000ng/dL. It will take the body ~2 weeks, earliest, to bring the T level to a

point that your body will initiate the HPTA. You do not have the meds needed it

sounds. If you were normal et the beginning, hold tight you will return to

normal within 2-3 months. Lab work is imperative to ensure HPTA stability.

Mike

==========================================================================

I must tell you this is not fun it's a bitch coming off TRT I have had Endo's

take me off TRT 7 times in the last 27 yrs but they were not trying to jump

start me they wanted what they call a base line set of labs that today I know

for a fact there is no such thing. All they found out was how dam sick they

made me. Today I tell me don't ever let a Dr. take you off TRT. I have heart

bypass surgery and the Dr. took me off TRT without telling us and it dam near

killed me. It's a long story you can read it at this link it's the update.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239

Dr. even told me before I went in for surgery not to let them take me off

TRT he says I sould report this Dr. to the Med board.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> Subject: I'll try again with the question

>

> Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 9:49 PM

> I didn't get any feedback on my

> original post so thought I would try again.

>

> Has anyone been able to use T and/or Clomid to " reset " the

> HPA axis, drop the meds and retain higher levels of T

> production than prior to the meds?

>

> Has anyone here been on clomid long term?  If so, what

> dose, how many days per week and for how long?

>

> Thanks

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not true i got several young guys that were on TRT for years stopped cold turkey

examined their lifestyles, nutritoinal imbalances, sleep patterns, daily and

potential stress, thyroid and adrenals imbalances. They are doing fine with out

any supplementation what so ever. THis is our speciality find the causes of

imbalances of pretty much an disease out there and correct it to give better

quality of life. If hormone are needed they are supplemented appropriately.

>

> > From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> > Subject: I'll try again with the question

> >

> > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 9:49 PM

> > I didn't get any feedback on my

> > original post so thought I would try again.

> >

> > Has anyone been able to use T and/or Clomid to " reset " the

> > HPA axis, drop the meds and retain higher levels of T

> > production than prior to the meds?

> >

> > Has anyone here been on clomid long term?  If so, what

> > dose, how many days per week and for how long?

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yep and it all ways do to a dietary imbalances that was caught as the main cause

once corrected being on TRT for 3 years the patient is now better then ever.

Also correcting other hormonal issues helped to keep his levels in check.

>

> I didn't get any feedback on my original post so thought I would try again.

>

> Has anyone been able to use T and/or Clomid to " reset " the HPA axis, drop the

meds and retain higher levels of T production than prior to the meds?

>

> Has anyone here been on clomid long term? If so, what dose, how many days per

week and for how long?

>

> Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I am going to try the T and Clomid for about a month or so, go off and

see how I do.

> >

> > > From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> > > Subject: I'll try again with the question

> > >

> > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 9:49 PM

> > > I didn't get any feedback on my

> > > original post so thought I would try again.

> > >

> > > Has anyone been able to use T and/or Clomid to " reset " the

> > > HPA axis, drop the meds and retain higher levels of T

> > > production than prior to the meds?

> > >

> > > Has anyone here been on clomid long term?  If so, what

> > > dose, how many days per week and for how long?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

OK let me tell you don't do this without the help of a Dr. and don't do both

Clomid and Testosterone they don't go together it's one or the other.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: I'll try again with the question

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 12:57 PM

> Thanks.  I am going to try the T

> and Clomid for about a month or so, go off and see how I

> do.

>

>

> > >

> > > > From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> > > > Subject: I'll try again with

> the question

> > > >

> > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 9:49 PM

> > > > I didn't get any feedback on my

> > > > original post so thought I would try again.

>

> > > >

> > > > Has anyone been able to use T and/or Clomid

> to " reset " the

> > > > HPA axis, drop the meds and retain higher

> levels of T

> > > > production than prior to the meds?

> > > >

> > > > Has anyone here been on clomid long term? 

> If so, what

> > > > dose, how many days per week and for how

> long?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil

I'm on TRT & have just ordered some Clomid as I'm a bit pi55ed off

having shrunken balls.

So you advise against this?

Thanks

Ian

>

> OK let me tell you don't do this without the help of a Dr. and don't

do both Clomid and Testosterone they don't go together it's one or the

other.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think men should do both testosterone and Clomid at the same time

Testosterone shuts down the LH and FSH messages sent to your Testis this is why

they get small doing Clomid makes your brain send more LH and FSH to your testis

so if you do both one it fighting the other this is not good for your body tring

to adjust to this fight. So one or the other of add HCG to your TRT I don't

know if you can get this in the UK.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: strummer1961200087 <ian.kay1@...>

> Subject: Re: I'll try again with the question

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:06 PM

> Hi Phil

>

> I'm on TRT & have just ordered some Clomid as I'm a bit

> pi55ed off

> having shrunken balls.

>

> So you advise against this?

>

> Thanks

> Ian

>

>

>

> >

> > OK let me tell you don't do this without the help of a

> Dr. and don't

> do both Clomid and Testosterone they don't go together it's

> one or the

> other.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What about using a test booster such as tribulus or some other claimed test

booster while on TRT? Would this have the same effect of fighting each other?

> > >

> > > OK let me tell you don't do this without the help of a

> > Dr. and don't

> > do both Clomid and Testosterone they don't go together it's

> > one or the

> > other.

> > > Co-Moderator

> > > Phil

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

My doc is the one that prescribed this protocol. ????

> > > >

> > > > > From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> > > > > Subject: I'll try again with

> > the question

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 9:49 PM

> > > > > I didn't get any feedback on my

> > > > > original post so thought I would try again.

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > Has anyone been able to use T and/or Clomid

> > to " reset " the

> > > > > HPA axis, drop the meds and retain higher

> > levels of T

> > > > > production than prior to the meds?

> > > > >

> > > > > Has anyone here been on clomid long term? 

> > If so, what

> > > > > dose, how many days per week and for how

> > long?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Waste of money.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: esplinbj <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: I'll try again with the question

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 3:17 PM

> What about using a test booster such

> as tribulus or some other claimed test booster while on

> TRT?  Would this have the same effect of fighting each

> other?

>

>

> > > >

> > > > OK let me tell you don't do this without the

> help of a

> > > Dr. and don't

> > > do both Clomid and Testosterone they don't go

> together it's

> > > one or the

> > > other.

> > > > Co-Moderator

> > > > Phil

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I can't tell you what to do but I do know body builders coming off Steroids go

on Clomid to jump start there Testis and brain to make testosterone.  It's

about common sense you don't take something that shuts down your testis and

brain like testosterone does and then add in something like clomid that makes

your brain and testis make Testosterone just does not make sense.  Would you

take a med to get rid of cold and then go out side naked in the cold. I know

going out side naked will not give you a cold but you get my point. Here is 

how Clomid works.

Just ask your Dr. what he is trying to do let him explain this to you. I feel

he is nuts.

=======================================================================

Clomiphene (Clomid, Serophene, Omifin)

Clomiphene was originally developed to help treat female infertility caused by

ovulatory dysfunction. It works in women by binding competitively to estrogen

receptors on the hypothalamus and pituitary. This causes an increased secretion

of leutinizing hormone-releasing hormone as well as follicle-stimulating

hormone-releasing hormone which in turn causes a release of LH and FSH. Did you

follow that? These two hormones play key roles in the process of ovulation and

maturation of the ovarian follicle, which is necessary to make a baby.

So, what the hell does this have to do with a bodybuilder? I’m sure most of

you are already familiar with what I’m about to tell you. That is, clomiphene,

which increases LH and FSH in women, can do the same in men. As we all know, LH

is responsible for endogenous Testosterone production in men. This is a great

thing for guys who’ve just come off a cycle which has shut down or limited the

production of their endogenous T.

So, what else is great about this stuff? Well, you should also notice that while

it binds to estrogen receptors on the hypothalamus and pituitary, it does the

same with breast tissue. When it does, this prevents endogenous estrogen from

binding to the alpha receptor sites. The alpha receptors are those found with

breast tissue.

What else? Well, it can improve blood lipid profiles to some extent. This is

thought to be an inherent property of all anti-estrogens. It’s thought to

occur because of clomiphene’s estrogen-like influence on the cardiovascular

system, lowering low density lipoproteins in the plasma (1).

Oh, and one more thing. Yes, clomiphene has been shown to increase LH and

Testosterone, both total and free in normal and oligospermic men (dudes with low

sperm count). But what about in men that have exercise-induced hypogonadism? The

answer is that clomiphene can help them as well.

In one study, a 29-year-old male runner had reached a state of hypogonadism from

overtraining, something that’s also commonly seen amongst bodybuilders. He

received 50 mg of clomiphene daily for five weeks and afterward, reached normal

levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone, both free and total. After four months of

treatment, improvements were seen in muscle strength, daily morning erections,

sense of well being, and energy (2).

I think it can be concluded that clomiphene is very effective at increasing LH

and Testosterone levels. It’s good at preventing gynecomastia and can also

improve blood lipid profiles.

So what dosages should be used? For the LH/Testosterone boosting effect, a

dosage of 50 to100 mg per day. When using it as an anti-estrogen, you should

employ larger dosages. Depending on what steroid you’re using and how much,

you should use 50 to 300 mg per day during the cycle. It’s been shown that

clomiphene is more effective for preventing and treating gynecomastia when

higher dosages are used (3).

If you’re getting it the legit way, through your doctor, the price for the

brand name Clomid is around nine to ten bucks per tab. The generic version is

around four dollars per tab. Of course, a little bird told me that the street

price is much lower and that many of the same, uh, business men, who sell

steroids will sell clomiphene for around fifty cents to a dollar per tab.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: I'll try again with the question

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 3:49 PM

> My doc is the one that prescribed

> this protocol. ????

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> > > > > > Subject: I'll try

> again with

> > > the question

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009,

> 9:49 PM

> > > > > > I didn't get any feedback on my

> > > > > > original post so thought I would

> try again.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Has anyone been able to use T

> and/or Clomid

> > > to " reset " the

> > > > > > HPA axis, drop the meds and retain

> higher

> > > levels of T

> > > > > > production than prior to the

> meds?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Has anyone here been on clomid

> long term? 

> > > If so, what

> > > > > > dose, how many days per week and

> for how

> > > long?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the input.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> > > > > > > Subject: I'll try

> > again with

> > > > the question

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009,

> > 9:49 PM

> > > > > > > I didn't get any feedback on my

> > > > > > > original post so thought I would

> > try again.

> > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Has anyone been able to use T

> > and/or Clomid

> > > > to " reset " the

> > > > > > > HPA axis, drop the meds and retain

> > higher

> > > > levels of T

> > > > > > > production than prior to the

> > meds?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Has anyone here been on clomid

> > long term? 

> > > > If so, what

> > > > > > > dose, how many days per week and

> > for how

> > > > long?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

OK, I wouldn't attempt to question your knowledge, but...... am I right

in thinking Testosterone doesn't do anything to shut down production,

it's your Pituatry/hypothalamus shutting down when it (sometimes

wrongly) decides you have enough Testosterone???

take something that shuts down your testis and brain like testosterone

does

[Guest guest]

Being a national level bodybuilder, clomid made me one winny, depressed and

suicidal person. I could not stand being on it for more then 2 weeks then I

switched over to nolvadex and was not as bad for next 2 weeks. In the down time

i would use tribestan to help regulate my hormone levels while off and held all

my gains.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> > > > > > > Subject: I'll try

> > again with

> > > > the question

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009,

> > 9:49 PM

> > > > > > > I didn't get any feedback on my

> > > > > > > original post so thought I would

> > try again.

> > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Has anyone been able to use T

> > and/or Clomid

> > > > to " reset " the

> > > > > > > HPA axis, drop the meds and retain

> > higher

> > > > levels of T

> > > > > > > production than prior to the

> > meds?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Has anyone here been on clomid

> > long term? 

> > > > If so, what

> > > > > > > dose, how many days per week and

> > for how

> > > > long?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Please find a competent dr who knows HRT because your Dr is not up to take with

latest advances. This is not practicing appropriate protocol in standards of

today.

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> > > > > > Subject: I'll try again with

> > > the question

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 9:49 PM

> > > > > > I didn't get any feedback on my

> > > > > > original post so thought I would try again.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Has anyone been able to use T and/or Clomid

> > > to " reset " the

> > > > > > HPA axis, drop the meds and retain higher

> > > levels of T

> > > > > > production than prior to the meds?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Has anyone here been on clomid long term? 

> > > If so, what

> > > > > > dose, how many days per week and for how

> > > long?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

YOU NEVER DO TESTOSTEONE AND CLOMID TOGETHER ..PEROID...

[Guest guest]

Your welcome any time just ask.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: I'll try again with the question

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 4:29 PM

> Thanks for the input.

>

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> > > > > > > > Subject:

> I'll try

> > > again with

> > > > > the question

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, October

> 16, 2009,

> > > 9:49 PM

> > > > > > > > I didn't get any

> feedback on my

> > > > > > > > original post so thought

> I would

> > > try again.

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Has anyone been able to

> use T

> > > and/or Clomid

> > > > > to " reset " the

> > > > > > > > HPA axis, drop the meds

> and retain

> > > higher

> > > > > levels of T

> > > > > > > > production than prior to

> the

> > > meds?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Has anyone here been on

> clomid

> > > long term? 

> > > > > If so, what

> > > > > > > > dose, how many days per

> week and

> > > for how

> > > > > long?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I don't recommend doing this because to many that have had a problem getting

back to there normal levels that were to low to begin with. You just don't see

men going on TRT that have good levels I met one at a bodybuilding forum this

week. His levels were in the 800's he went on TRT to see what would happen so

he says I don't believe a Dr. put him on it but now he is off it and has

problems his body is not make near enough to support his body. Why this happens

I don't know the brain sees the added Testosterone in the body and stops sending

the LH and FSH messages and when one stops the Testosterone there body and brain

does not start back up again. Yet you can take Thyroid meds and stop them later

and your brain jumps back in and in some cases works better then it did before

treating it. If one were to go on TRT and cycle off it doing some clomid and

nolvadex like the bodybuilders do then they would start back up to the levels

they were at. But

there are a lot of men that did Steroids that this did not work and they now

have Anabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonadism (ASIH).

They shut down there HTPA and doing a PCT just does not work so I just tell men

don't go on TRT until you find out why your low and it can't be fixed.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: strummer1961200087 <ian.kay1@...>

> Subject: Re: I'll try again with the question

>

> Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 4:41 PM

> OK, I wouldn't attempt to question

> your knowledge, but...... am I right

> in thinking Testosterone doesn't do anything to shut down

> production,

> it's your Pituatry/hypothalamus shutting down when it

> (sometimes

> wrongly) decides you have enough Testosterone???

>

>

>

>

> take something that shuts down your testis and brain like

> testosterone

> does

>

>

>

>

>