Re: Dip after Lunch ?.

[Guest guest]

Hi here is a link to my story saves me time.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/stories-of-others/phils-story/

And this was added to my story in the new book Stop The Thyroid Madness.

=================================

Though it's most common with women, men are not immune from having low ferritin.

Phil, a thyroid, adrenal and pituitary patient who specializes in men's issues,

states:

I had a lot of problems and couldn't pinpoint what was holding me back. My

testosterone levels on meds were good; my HC meds were working; my thyroid

levels were better; bI didn't get sick anymore in the winter.

Still I went to bed fatigued and got up fatigued. I had a high pulse rate over

110 bpm at rest. I was out of breath just from getting a glass of water.

Sometime, I felt as if I would pass out. I had mucus stuck in my throat just at

the bottom of my neck, and had to hack over and over to get it up so I could

breathe.

To be honest with you I felt like I had congestive heart failure. Here I am on

Florinef for low aldosterone levels, yet I was holding water so bad that I

needed to take water pills every other day. It made no sense.

Finally, the women on a group I belong to pushed me into testing Ferritin. My

levels come back below normal. I was at 18 and the low end of the range is 29.

After taking 212 mgs. of elemental iron from Ferrous Fumarate 324 mg., my

Ferritin come up to only 24 after taking this for 7 weeks.

Yet my breathing is so much better. I fly up and down stairs without getting

our of breath. I stopped taking meds to help me breathe, as well as a med for

reflux. I have dropped 22 lbs since using iron while being on the Weight

Watchers program, while before, I gained on Weight Watchers. I am now getting

exercise and not housebound. My feelings of depression have lessened, and hell,

my sex life is better. I asked my Dr. why my iron levels are so low, and he

feels it's the hypopituitary problem with so many low hormones.

================================

After being told for 23 yrs. I am Primary I got my Dr. 2 yrs. ago to let me try

HCG. Dr. gave me this post to show him.

================================

He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing)

there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why

this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take

will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone.

This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic

consideration.

Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT

patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which

is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with

CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more

natural balance of our hormones.

Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an

increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life

issues.

Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including

those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated.

================================

After reading Dr. 's post to me he put me on 500IU's of HCG 3x's a week and

had me come in for labs after the 15th shot. My Total T went from 600 to 1200

at the time my labs range was up to 1592 do my levels doubled and my Testis do

work. He ordered an MRI and it was good. He then asked me for copys of all the

labs I have had done. He sent them to his friend that looked them over and said

my labs have been screaming a Pituitary problem and wanted to know if I ever had

a head injury so this is how I found out I am Hypopituitary.

Next he told my Dr. to do a ACTH Stim. test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACTH_stimulation_test

This test showed me to be Secondary. Now today I do Testosterone and HCG,

Arimidex to keep E2 levels down, HC or Cortef for my low Cortisol levels I do

30mgs a day. I am on Armour for my low Thyroid doing 3.75 grains a day. I am

on Florinef for my low Aldosterone levels with a 1/2 tsp of Sea Salt in my water

I do about this much to 24oz. of water and drink 3 to 4 a day. And after I went

on this my DHEA levels went way up so now I don't need to take DHEA. I found out

the first of this yr. my Ferritin and Iron levels were low so now I do Iron

pills. Just 8 weeks ago my Dr. tested my Folate RBC and it is below normal and

I was taking Folic Acid when the test was done. So I need to take a different

kind of Folic Acid my body does not convert it. I take Thorne Research -

Folacal been on this 2 weeks and feeling better this might be why my iron is so

low.

You are on a very low dose of Cortisol one needs to be on enough to support

there adreanls so they can heal if your low because of Adrenal Fatigue if your

low do to a pituitary problem then you need to take enough to cover what your

body is not making. I don't know of to many guys doing good on this low of a

dose. I can't take Pregnenelone it drives up my E2 levels bad and I feel it's

because of the HCG dose I take. I do my T shots every 3 days 80mgs and do HCG

400 IU's the 2 days each in between my T shots and I shoot them both into my

thigh.

I don't take anything to stimulate my pituitary it does not work.

If your E2 levels are to high your Free T will be low.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <mytoothhurts@...>

> Subject: Re: Dip after Lunch ?.

>

> Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 7:20 PM

> hi Phil

>

> my road has been a little long and hard as well - 11 years

> but i am pretty

> good now, just trying to get better still. if you fix your

> digestion you

> should find a lot of benefit, i am yet to try Betaine

> Hydrochloride.

>

> i have suspected myself of being hypopituitary but tests

> have not bore that

> out. i still wonder however as i know how backward some of

> our testing can

> be, i might find in the future that a new test shows that i

> am. what test do

> you think is defining for hypopituitary disfunction? i

> can't remember what

> i've had at the moment.

>

> i take cortisol 2.5 mg x 3 per day. i take Armour thyroid

> 20mg in the

> morning. i take a bunch of other stuff inc. pregnenelone

> 50mg and dhea 50mg

> but the rest are herbal and vitamins. and on this regimen i

> still have low

> free T at 33 (60-140?). i also take digestive enzymes and i

> eat some ginger

> to help digestion - good for fat and protein.

>

> do you take anything to stimulate the pituitary?

>

> thanks

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

hi Phil

my road has been a little long and hard as well - 11 years but i am pretty

good now, just trying to get better still. if you fix your digestion you

should find a lot of benefit, i am yet to try Betaine Hydrochloride.

i have suspected myself of being hypopituitary but tests have not bore that

out. i still wonder however as i know how backward some of our testing can

be, i might find in the future that a new test shows that i am. what test do

you think is defining for hypopituitary disfunction? i can't remember what

i've had at the moment.

i take cortisol 2.5 mg x 3 per day. i take Armour thyroid 20mg in the

morning. i take a bunch of other stuff inc. pregnenelone 50mg and dhea 50mg

but the rest are herbal and vitamins. and on this regimen i still have low

free T at 33 (60-140?). i also take digestive enzymes and i eat some ginger

to help digestion - good for fat and protein.

do you take anything to stimulate the pituitary?

thanks

[Guest guest]

Hi

Cortisone and steriod related medications:

If your perhaps using ANY form of cortisone medications, this will

also skew up your lab tests and most definately will have a profound

effect on not only your Testosterone levels but also indirectly your

thryroid etc etc.I'm using it for Asthma, and Im on HRT (Primodian

depot injection)I'm a Female and the use of cortisone distorts my HRT

and Thyroid lab results.

Cortisone also messes up my digestion badly.Its very hard on the

stomach and as wonderfull and life saving this drug can be, I

sometimes think its doing a lot more harm than good.

I think you need to get to a very good specialist /endocrin and work

with him to get you sorted out and back to good health.They are really

your best option.Most primary Dr's dont know a thing about the effects

one thing has on another,and you have every right to living a good

and healthy life with optimal T levels in your system present.

You deserve this!

All the best to you.

Sunbeatle

> From: <mytoothhurts@...>

> > Subject: Re: Dip after Lunch ?.

> >

> > Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 7:20 PM

> > hi Phil

> >

> > my road has been a little long and hard as well - 11 years

> > but i am pretty

> > good now, just trying to get better still. if you fix your

> > digestion you

> > should find a lot of benefit, i am yet to try Betaine

> > Hydrochloride.

> >

> > i have suspected myself of beding hypopituitary but tests

> > have not bore that

> > out. i still wonder however as i know how backward some of

> > our testing can

> > be, i might find in the future that a new test shows that i

> > am. what test do

> > you think is defining for hypopituitary disfunction? i

> > can't remember what

> > i've had at the moment.

> >

> > i take cortisol 2.5 mg x 3 per day. i take Armour thyroid

> > 20mg in the

> > morning. i take a bunch of other stuff inc. pregnenelone

> > 50mg and dhea 50mg

> > but the rest are herbal and vitamins. and on this regimen i

> > still have low

> > free T at 33 (60-140?). i also take digestive enzymes and i

> > eat some ginger

> > to help digestion - good for fat and protein.

> >

> > do you take anything to stimulate the pituitary?

> >

> > thanks

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi sunbeatle,

Cortisone will do this your right but he is not on this he is on Cortisol this

is made by the Adrenels most need this if they have Adrenal Fatigue or a

Pituitary problem and levels are to low.

Why are you on Cortisone if it's breathing problems if you can come off it for 2

weeks and test your cortisol levels a morning fasting test if you low and go on

say Cortef this helps and you might not need Cortisone. Here is a FAQ's we did

at Stopthethyroidmadness.com read this and see if it applys to your.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=256

People need Cortisol to carry the thyroid hormone out of the blood into the

cells. And doing T4 only meds like Synthroid stress the adrenals if you can't

convert T4 into T3.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: sunbeatle0706 <conniek@...>

> Subject: Re: Dip after Lunch ?.

>

> Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 1:47 AM

> Hi

> Cortisone and steriod related medications:

> If your perhaps using ANY form of cortisone medications,

> this will

> also skew up your lab tests and most definately will have a

> profound

> effect on not only your Testosterone levels but also

> indirectly your

> thryroid etc etc.I'm using it for Asthma, and Im on

> HRT (Primodian

> depot injection)I'm a Female and the use of cortisone

> distorts my HRT

> and Thyroid lab results.

> Cortisone also messes up my digestion badly.Its very hard

> on the

> stomach and as wonderfull and life saving this drug can be,

> I

> sometimes think its doing a lot more harm than good.

>

> I think you need to get to a very good specialist /endocrin

> and work

> with him to get you sorted out and back to good health.They

> are really

> your best option.Most primary Dr's dont know a thing

> about the effects

> one thing has on another,and you have every right to living

> a good

> and healthy life with optimal T levels in your system

> present.

> You deserve this!

> All the best to you.

> Sunbeatle

>

> > From: <mytoothhurts@...>

> > > Subject: Re: Dip after Lunch ?.

> > >

> > > Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 7:20 PM

> > > hi Phil

> > >

> > > my road has been a little long and hard as well -

> 11 years

> > > but i am pretty

> > > good now, just trying to get better still. if you

> fix your

> > > digestion you

> > > should find a lot of benefit, i am yet to try

> Betaine

> > > Hydrochloride.

> > >

> > > i have suspected myself of beding hypopituitary

> but tests

> > > have not bore that

> > > out. i still wonder however as i know how

> backward some of

> > > our testing can

> > > be, i might find in the future that a new test

> shows that i

> > > am. what test do

> > > you think is defining for hypopituitary

> disfunction? i

> > > can't remember what

> > > i've had at the moment.

> > >

> > > i take cortisol 2.5 mg x 3 per day. i take Armour

> thyroid

> > > 20mg in the

> > > morning. i take a bunch of other stuff inc.

> pregnenelone

> > > 50mg and dhea 50mg

> > > but the rest are herbal and vitamins. and on this

> regimen i

> > > still have low

> > > free T at 33 (60-140?). i also take digestive

> enzymes and i

> > > eat some ginger

> > > to help digestion - good for fat and protein.

> > >

> > > do you take anything to stimulate the pituitary?

> > >

> > > thanks

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

If your taking a small amount and feel good your lucky. Most of the people I

help with bad Adrenals and Thyroid at this forum " For Men Only " they need 20mgs

of HC a day and 3 grains of armour.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <mytoothhurts@...>

> Subject: Re: Dip after Lunch ?.

>

> Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 2:42 PM

> Thanks Sunbeatle, I am on the trail of a knowledgable doctor

> but the

> appointment doesn't happen until December.

> The cortisol and thyroid have made a big difference for me

> so I will stick

> with it, luckily I am taking a fairly small amount.

> Thanks for the advice.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Awesome! Thanks Phil, more books to add to the library. :-)

>

> > From: <mytoothhurts@...>

> > Subject: Re: Dip after Lunch ?.

> >

> > Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 3:58 PM

> > Thanks for the reply Phil

> >

> > A couple of things stood out from your post, i have had a

> > positive result

> > from an ACTH stim. test. This was in relation to adrenal

> > function - does it

> > have application towards testosterone?

> >

> > I also take salt in water, i feel this has been a great

> > help to my blood

> > pressure especially in the afternoons after lunch.

> >

> > I realise i take a low dose of cortisol but i try to take

> > as little as

> > possible, previously i was on less and struggled. I keep

> > messing with it to

> > find the right balance.

> >

> > I was happy to see you write:

> > 'If your E2 levels are to high your Free T will be

> > low.'

> > .. as i plan to have most tests done but am keen to move on

> > and try

> > something to get benefit, however i also realise that i

> > should wait until i

> > have had tests done before i start any treatment. would

> > high E2 be the

> > primary reason for the low free T?

> >

> > no doubt you are aware of Dr Teitelbaum? who deals

> > primarily with adrenal

> > fatigue, he recently wrote an article about clomiphene and

> > i am interested

> > in it as i value his opinion. what do you think?

> >

> > thanks for your help

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sunbeatle, I am on the trail of a knowledgable doctor but the

appointment doesn't happen until December.

The cortisol and thyroid have made a big difference for me so I will stick

with it, luckily I am taking a fairly small amount.

Thanks for the advice.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the reply Phil

A couple of things stood out from your post, i have had a positive result

from an ACTH stim. test. This was in relation to adrenal function - does it

have application towards testosterone?

I also take salt in water, i feel this has been a great help to my blood

pressure especially in the afternoons after lunch.

I realise i take a low dose of cortisol but i try to take as little as

possible, previously i was on less and struggled. I keep messing with it to

find the right balance.

I was happy to see you write:

'If your E2 levels are to high your Free T will be low.'

... as i plan to have most tests done but am keen to move on and try

something to get benefit, however i also realise that i should wait until i

have had tests done before i start any treatment. would high E2 be the

primary reason for the low free T?

no doubt you are aware of Dr Teitelbaum? who deals primarily with adrenal

fatigue, he recently wrote an article about clomiphene and i am interested

in it as i value his opinion. what do you think?

thanks for your help

[Guest guest]

thanks for the links Phil.

what is the test that is similar to to ACTH for Testosterone? to test

the pituitary? (is there one, maybe i am mistaken?).

cheers

[Guest guest]

Yes there is one but if your on TRT all ready it's best to stay on it and just

add in 500 IU's of HCG 3x's a week do labs before you start this then after your

15th. shot of HCG on the day of your next T shot or the morning you use gels get

tested first before you do the shot of gel. Make sure the day before your labs

you don't do an HCG shot. If your levels go up mine doubled but even 300 points

higher means your Testis work and your Pituitary is not tell them to work. You

then should do an MRI on your Pituitary to see if you have a tumor this is not

cancer. My MRI was clean but just before I got sick I had a head injury and

this is why my pituitary is bad.

Also there is a Clomid Stim. test you can read about in the AACE Guildlines.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: rmckinner <mytoothhurts@...>

> Subject: Re: Dip after Lunch ?.

>

> Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 4:04 AM

> thanks for the links Phil.

>

> what is the test that is similar to to ACTH for

> Testosterone? to test

> the pituitary? (is there one, maybe i am mistaken?).

>

> cheers

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

thanks Phil

i am only on 1% T cream at the moment, seems to have no effect.

so is the stim test called GnRH stim test?

thanks

richard

>

> > From: rmckinner <mytoothhurts@...>

> > Subject: Re: Dip after Lunch ?.

> >

> > Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 4:04 AM

> > thanks for the links Phil.

> >

> > what is the test that is similar to to ACTH for

> > Testosterone? to test

> > the pituitary? (is there one, maybe i am mistaken?).

> >

> > cheers

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

The best way to tell if one has a pituitary problem is to test Total and Free

Testosterone, Estradiol, LH and FSH. If T levels are low and Estradiol is not

over 40 pg/ml and LH and FSH are low then you need to do an MRI. If your on TRT

this is not possable so all you can do is add HCG and see if your testis work

making your levels go up.

There is a Clomid Stim. test also.

I don't know anything about an GnRH stim test.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: rmckinner <mytoothhurts@...>

> Subject: Re: Dip after Lunch ?.

>

> Date: Tuesday, October 7, 2008, 12:56 AM

> thanks Phil

>

> i am only on 1% T cream at the moment, seems to have no

> effect.

>

> so is the stim test called GnRH stim test?

>

> thanks

>

> richard

>

>

> >

> > > From: rmckinner <mytoothhurts@...>

> > > Subject: Re: Dip after Lunch ?.

> > >

> > > Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 4:04 AM

> > > thanks for the links Phil.

> > >

> > > what is the test that is similar to to ACTH for

> > > Testosterone? to test

> > > the pituitary? (is there one, maybe i am

> mistaken?).

> > >

> > > cheers

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

thanks Phil, luckily i have just had all those tests done this morning

so i should get a better picture soon.

much appreciated

> > >

> > > > From: rmckinner <mytoothhurts@>

> > > > Subject: Re: Dip after Lunch ?.

> > > >

> > > > Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 4:04 AM

> > > > thanks for the links Phil.

> > > >

> > > > what is the test that is similar to to ACTH for

> > > > Testosterone? to test

> > > > the pituitary? (is there one, maybe i am

> > mistaken?).

> > > >

> > > > cheers

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >