Re: Need some help, please

[Guest guest]

Hard post at the top of the reply just hit return and up arrow and type.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

> Subject: Re: Need some help, please

>

> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 6:55 PM

>

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > A gal using

> pellets! My

> > > gyno did a

> > > > > trial w/

> > > > > > > me. The

> > > > > > > > > improvement lasted

> about

> > > 3months and

> > > > > doc wouldn't

> > > > > > > repeat,

> > > > > > > > > was a very cautious

> doctor. I

> > > since

> > > > > found a new

> > > > > > > one and am

> > > > > > > > > in wk 13 of 12.5mg

> of

> > > Androgel per day

> > > > > plus 25mg

> > > > > > > DHEA

> > > > > > > > > 2XDaily. I feel

> much better

> > > (but

> > > > > looking for more

> > > > > > > mental

> > > > > > > > > connection re:

> fantasy,

> > > erotic thought

> > > > > to come

> > > > > > > back to match

> > > > > > > > > the physical

> 'horniness')

> > > > > > > > > >    Email me

> if

> > > you want

> > > > > to chat.

> > > > > > > > > Magiclea@

> > > > > > > > > >   Kay

> > > > > > > > > > Hubby update

> soon. He

> > > has been on

> > > > > T

> > > > > > > injections for

> > > > > > > > > about 3 months now.

> Lab

> > > review on

> > > > > Thursday!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Kay,

> > > > > > > > > I have a few people

> using the

> > > pellets

> > > > > they need

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > replaced every 3-4

> months not

> > > every 6

> > > > > months like

> > > > > > > people

> > > > > > > > > think. You really

> need to

> > > find a good

> > > > > dr to know

> > > > > > > what they

> > > > > > > > > are doing with

> hormones

> > > because this

> > > > > women is

> > > > > > > trying but is

> > > > > > > > > completely out of

> the loop.

> > > You need to

> > > > > look at

> > > > > > > baseline

> > > > > > > > > readings of all

> your labs to

> > > know where

> > > > > to even

> > > > > > > start. 50

> > > > > > > > > mgs of dhea will

> increase e2

> > > > > dramamtically and

> > > > > > > needs to be

> > > > > > > > > measured as well as

> the

> > > metabolites of

> > > > > dhea needs

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > tracked to make

> sure there

> > > are going

> > > > > down the

> > > > > > > proper

> > > > > > > > > pathway.  12.5 mgs

> of

> > > androgel is

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > rediculous amount

> > > > > > > > > and what are your

> current

> > > levels and

> > > > > when are

> > > > > > > then tested?

> > > > > > > > > Was it before or

> after the

> > > application

> > > > > of the

> > > > > > > gel.  If

> > > > > > > > > she is dosing you

> base upon

> > > the am

> > > > > morning blood

> > > > > > > draw with

> > > > > > > > > out application of

> the cream

> > > this is

> > > > > why you are

> > > > > > > not getting

> > > > > > > > > optimal results.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 

> > >    mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this

> message have

> > > been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Thank you Phil for mentioning; I receive on and read on my phone; easier to read

if they are on top. Thanks for getting Hard to Join the group; this has to be

the busiest day for replies to email, 63 and counting from this group and still

more to go, again Thanks Phil, you probably don't hear this enough.

Re: Need some help, please

>

> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 6:55 PM

>

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > A gal using

> pellets! My

> > > gyno did a

> > > > > trial w/

> > > > > > > me. The

> > > > > > > > > improvement lasted

> about

> > > 3months and

> > > > > doc wouldn't

> > > > > > > repeat,

> > > > > > > > > was a very cautious

> doctor. I

> > > since

> > > > > found a new

> > > > > > > one and am

> > > > > > > > > in wk 13 of 12.5mg

> of

> > > Androgel per day

> > > > > plus 25mg

> > > > > > > DHEA

> > > > > > > > > 2XDaily. I feel

> much better

> > > (but

> > > > > looking for more

> > > > > > > mental

> > > > > > > > > connection re:

> fantasy,

> > > erotic thought

> > > > > to come

> > > > > > > back to match

> > > > > > > > > the physical

> 'horniness')

> > > > > > > > > >    Email me

> if

> > > you want

> > > > > to chat.

> > > > > > > > > Magiclea@

> > > > > > > > > >   Kay

> > > > > > > > > > Hubby update

> soon. He

> > > has been on

> > > > > T

> > > > > > > injections for

> > > > > > > > > about 3 months now.

> Lab

> > > review on

> > > > > Thursday!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Kay,

> > > > > > > > > I have a few people

> using the

> > > pellets

> > > > > they need

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > replaced every 3-4

> months not

> > > every 6

> > > > > months like

> > > > > > > people

> > > > > > > > > think. You really

> need to

> > > find a good

> > > > > dr to know

> > > > > > > what they

> > > > > > > > > are doing with

> hormones

> > > because this

> > > > > women is

> > > > > > > trying but is

> > > > > > > > > completely out of

> the loop.

> > > You need to

> > > > > look at

> > > > > > > baseline

> > > > > > > > > readings of all

> your labs to

> > > know where

> > > > > to even

> > > > > > > start. 50

> > > > > > > > > mgs of dhea will

> increase e2

> > > > > dramamtically and

> > > > > > > needs to be

> > > > > > > > > measured as well as

> the

> > > metabolites of

> > > > > dhea needs

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > tracked to make

> sure there

> > > are going

> > > > > down the

> > > > > > > proper

> > > > > > > > > pathway.  12.5 mgs

> of

> > > androgel is

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > rediculous amount

> > > > > > > > > and what are your

> current

> > > levels and

> > > > > when are

> > > > > > > then tested?

> > > > > > > > > Was it before or

> after the

> > > application

> > > > > of the

> > > > > > > gel.  If

> > > > > > > > > she is dosing you

> base upon

> > > the am

> > > > > morning blood

> > > > > > > draw with

> > > > > > > > > out application of

> the cream

> > > this is

> > > > > why you are

> > > > > > > not getting

> > > > > > > > > optimal results.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 

> > >    mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this

> message have

> > > been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I think it makes sense to give more T than E for women as blood results show

estrogen in pg/mL, not ng/dL (as they do for testosterone). That is, 1/10000

the amount. Estrogen is potent, as much less quantity than testosterone can

exert greater effects.

~Xian

> > > >

> > > > A gal using pellets! My gyno did a trial w/ me. The

> > > improvement lasted about 3months and doc wouldn't repeat,

> > > was a very cautious doctor. I since found a new one and am

> > > in wk 13 of 12.5mg of Androgel per day plus 25mg DHEA

> > > 2XDaily. I feel much better (but looking for more mental

> > > connection re: fantasy, erotic thought to come back to match

> > > the physical 'horniness')

> > > > Email me if you want to chat.

> > > Magiclea@

> > > > Kay

> > > > Hubby update soon. He has been on T injections for

> > > about 3 months now. Lab review on Thursday!

> > > >

> > > Kay,

> > > I have a few people using the pellets they need to be

> > > replaced every 3-4 months not every 6 months like people

> > > think. You really need to find a good dr to know what they

> > > are doing with hormones because this women is trying but is

> > > completely out of the loop. You need to look at baseline

> > > readings of all your labs to know where to even start. 50

> > > mgs of dhea will increase e2 dramamtically and needs to be

> > > measured as well as the metabolites of dhea needs to be

> > > tracked to make sure there are going down the proper

> > > pathway. 12.5 mgs of androgel is a rediculous amount

> > > and what are your current levels and when are then tested?

> > > Was it before or after the application of the gel. If

> > > she is dosing you base upon the am morning blood draw with

> > > out application of the cream this is why you are not getting

> > > optimal results.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Sorry , I goofed. pg/mL is 1/100,000 of ng/dL.

> > > > >

> > > > > A gal using pellets! My gyno did a trial w/ me. The

> > > > improvement lasted about 3months and doc wouldn't repeat,

> > > > was a very cautious doctor. I since found a new one and am

> > > > in wk 13 of 12.5mg of Androgel per day plus 25mg DHEA

> > > > 2XDaily. I feel much better (but looking for more mental

> > > > connection re: fantasy, erotic thought to come back to match

> > > > the physical 'horniness')

> > > > > Email me if you want to chat.

> > > > Magiclea@

> > > > > Kay

> > > > > Hubby update soon. He has been on T injections for

> > > > about 3 months now. Lab review on Thursday!

> > > > >

> > > > Kay,

> > > > I have a few people using the pellets they need to be

> > > > replaced every 3-4 months not every 6 months like people

> > > > think. You really need to find a good dr to know what they

> > > > are doing with hormones because this women is trying but is

> > > > completely out of the loop. You need to look at baseline

> > > > readings of all your labs to know where to even start. 50

> > > > mgs of dhea will increase e2 dramamtically and needs to be

> > > > measured as well as the metabolites of dhea needs to be

> > > > tracked to make sure there are going down the proper

> > > > pathway. 12.5 mgs of androgel is a rediculous amount

> > > > and what are your current levels and when are then tested?

> > > > Was it before or after the application of the gel. If

> > > > she is dosing you base upon the am morning blood draw with

> > > > out application of the cream this is why you are not getting

> > > > optimal results.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks, but that is very hard to understand. I go more how I feel than I do

labs, and know when I am low in E, just like men know when they are low on T. I

am wondering about Dim (the supplement) for myself. I haven't taken it but they

say it suppose to help metoblise the estrogen better, keep the bad away.

Anyways, I came across part of this on the web and would paste it below snd

please tell me what you think.

====================

In his 70s or 80s a man usually has enough testosterone around, even though the

level most likely is lower than when he was younger. The problem generally is a

poor blood supply to the penis, which is what Viagra temporarily helps. Taking

more testosterone will NOT increase the blood supply to the penis.

===========================

Now on regards to my dad who is 81 and started T pellets 700mg 5 weeks ago, and

still having probs sexually, would it mean he has no blood flow going through

this area? He does not want to take viagra. Now is there a way to get blood flow

there, withour resorting to drugs if the T doesn't work??

Re: Need some help, please

Sorry , I goofed. pg/mL is 1/100,000 of ng/dL.

> > > > >

> > > > > A gal using pellets! My gyno did a trial w/ me. The

> > > > improvement lasted about 3months and doc wouldn't repeat,

> > > > was a very cautious doctor. I since found a new one and am

> > > > in wk 13 of 12.5mg of Androgel per day plus 25mg DHEA

> > > > 2XDaily. I feel much better (but looking for more mental

> > > > connection re: fantasy, erotic thought to come back to match

> > > > the physical 'horniness')

> > > > > Email me if you want to chat.

> > > > Magiclea@

> > > > > Kay

> > > > > Hubby update soon. He has been on T injections for

> > > > about 3 months now. Lab review on Thursday!

> > > > >

> > > > Kay,

> > > > I have a few people using the pellets they need to be

> > > > replaced every 3-4 months not every 6 months like people

> > > > think. You really need to find a good dr to know what they

> > > > are doing with hormones because this women is trying but is

> > > > completely out of the loop. You need to look at baseline

> > > > readings of all your labs to know where to even start. 50

> > > > mgs of dhea will increase e2 dramamtically and needs to be

> > > > measured as well as the metabolites of dhea needs to be

> > > > tracked to make sure there are going down the proper

> > > > pathway. 12.5 mgs of androgel is a rediculous amount

> > > > and what are your current levels and when are then tested?

> > > > Was it before or after the application of the gel. If

> > > > she is dosing you base upon the am morning blood draw with

> > > > out application of the cream this is why you are not getting

> > > > optimal results.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

My apologies, I could have been clearer. Since a pg/mL is 1/100,000 the amount

of a ng/dL, and women have lab results for testosterone in ng/dL and estradiol

in pg/mL, women actually have more testosterone than estradiol in their bodies.

In application, it only takes a small amount of estradiol (a few mg) to raise

blood levels from 100 pg/mL to 300 pg/mL, but it takes more mg of testosterone

to raise blood levels of T from 15 ng/dL to 65 ng/dL.

It is often difficult to correlate lab results of testosterone and estradiol to

how one feels (vs. blood glucose which has somewhat more predictable trends).

It can make sense to pay more attention to a difference you can feel.

Some guys here like DIM and some have had unpleasant reactions or lack of

response. I haven't heard from any women who've taken DIM. I think DIM is not

good on its own. There are conflicting conclusions about DIM reducing or

increasing the carcinogenic effects of estrogen. It seems that I3C, which DIM

is made from, helps ensure that DIM plays a positive role in estrogen metabolism

(http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/jan2002_report_i3c_01.html). The best bet

would be to supplement with both I3C and DIM simultaneously or stick with

cruciferous vegetables. It might be hard to tell how much estrogen is " active "

if you take I3C/DIM, but since you don't fret over lab results, that shouldn't

be much of a problem :-)

I highly disagree with the article about men in their 70s to 80s having " enough "

testosterone around. Men in that age range may be within the reference range of

testosterone, but are often in the lower 1/3, if not below 300 ng/dL. There

have been studies indicating erectile dysfunction in men below 500 ng/dL

testosterone (which would include most men over 70), as well as a recent study

showing young men (20-30) having ED when below 400 ng/dL. (The problem is how

one defines " enough " , " normal " , etc. by problematic reference ranges. In

certain circumstances, the number is not meaningful.) Further, bioavailable T

and free T decrease even more significantly than total T with age (though the

relevance of free T is debatable). At one time, having lower T with age was

considered normal for " healthy " older men; now the American Association of

Clinical Endocrinologists recognizes that it is not:

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Hormone_replacement_therapy)

Likewise, it was once thought that testosterone did not have a clear role in

erectile function, but that has been refuted by more recent studies.

From a treatment-resolution perspective, it's frequent for men that age to have

problems which testosterone can often diminish, if not eliminate.

Testosterone helps erectile function in multiple ways, including

1) increasing heart strength, pumping power, and circulation

2) increasing NO, which helps arteries dilate (similar to Viagra) and

contributes to #3

3) increasing dopamine, a neurotransmitter involved in sexual arousal

4) increasing instance of nocturnal erection, which is necessary for daytime

erections

5) increasing lung and diaphragm strength, which can make breathing easier (so

one can exercise without fatiguing as easily), and improve

sleep quality (men with COPD often have trouble getting good sleep);

quality sleep is important for both erectile function specifically and

testosterone production/conservation in general, as the body does not decrease T

as rapidly during sleep.

6) increasing red blood cell production, thereby resolving anemia, which can

contribute to erectile dysfunction- (http://tinyurl.com/nta4av) or preview

(http://preview.tinyurl.com/nta4av).

7) increasing growth hormone, which plays a role in erections

8) possibly increasing the strength of the pelvic floor muscles.

Your dad might need to give it some time to see testosterone resolving his ED,

though testosterone is not a cure all for ED. Phil's comments on estradiol and

erections are worth noting. You mentioned your dad's on Amitrex- is this a

brand name for Imitrex, the migraine medicine? Or was it Arimidex, the estrogen

lowering medicine? Either of these might contribute to ED in different ways.

Also, Flomax might contribute to ED.

Personally, I've found kegels help produce spontaneous and stronger erections

better than Viagra or Cialis (and don't produce the " blue pill " headache). A

penis pump might also work, though one has to be careful with it.

~Xian

>

> Thanks, but that is very hard to understand. I go more how I feel than I do

labs, and know when I am low in E, just like men know when they are low on T. I

am wondering about Dim (the supplement) for myself. I haven't taken it but they

say it suppose to help metoblise the estrogen better, keep the bad away.

>

> Anyways, I came across part of this on the web and would paste it below snd

please tell me what you think.

>

> ====================

> In his 70s or 80s a man usually has enough testosterone around, even though

the level most likely is lower than when he was younger. The problem generally

is a poor blood supply to the penis, which is what Viagra temporarily helps.

Taking more testosterone will NOT increase the blood supply to the penis.

> ===========================

>

> Now on regards to my dad who is 81 and started T pellets 700mg 5 weeks ago,

and still having probs sexually, would it mean he has no blood flow going

through this area? He does not want to take viagra. Now is there a way to get

blood flow there, withour resorting to drugs if the T doesn't work??

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Guys,

My gyno is NAMS certified, (North American Menopause Society)Her 'guru' is Dr

Alan Altman.

Yep, I am a woman, 54 yrs old who used to have a kick ass 5 star sex drive

which during meno dove so low into the basement that I could enjoy watching

re-runs of Cheers! more than having sex.

The first thing Dr Sutter did was balance my Estrogen with Vivelle Dot 1.0

After Vivelle My level of Estradiol was 58 pg/ml In the range of 40-100 pg/ml

With No T on board my T levels were

25 ng/dl for Total T range 2-45ng/dl

3.4 pg/ml for Free T range 0.1-6.0

1.37% Percent T Free range 0.50-2.0

All levels were in 'NORMAL' range yet I was having SEVERE symptoms

My old gyno had me on 5mg (2.5/2x daily) of T a day in cream which did nothing.

after 12 wks on the 12.5 mg.Androgel- One pump of androgel is 1.25g of 1% gel

which is indeed 12.5 mg of T. An accepted level of T for gals.

My Total T and Free T are high, indeed, but she is concerned w/ the Percent

Free which at last visit was 1.83 percent.

she has me on 25 mg of DHEA 2x a day also has me on Lovasa Fish Oil and is

monitoring my chol, which is fine.

Chuckle, my clit is bigger, but who on earth ever said that was a bad thing?

Hubby loves that its easier to find <wink>...Tiz not, unlike my boobs, heading

south though...Just perkier!

My voice is not lower. I apply the gel to the insides of my forearms where

there is little hair anyway. I am not a hairy woman to begin with.

Quest Labs were used.

For me the important thing is. MY SEX DRIVE IS RETURNING!! yippeeeee. I was

too young to feel so old. My joint aches are diminishing (T or fish oil-don't

know, don't care) I feel better!

New Labs in a couple months.

Thanks guys for your caring!

Kay

From Power Surge.com

In a study done in 1994, by Morales, Nolan, and Yen1, 82% of the 17 women

were found to show an increased sense of well-being after 12 weeks of

administration. Well-being was reported as improved quality of sleep, better

relaxation, increased energy, and better ability to handle stress. No difference

was noted in libido, but 5 of the 17 did show improvements in preexisting joint

pains and mobility during DHEA therapy at 50.mg per day. Most women and men

above 40 years of age would benefit by using 25 to 50 mg per day in several

ways.

> I know phil but with 12.5 mgs of androgel for a female or typo meaning 1.25

mgs is more like it. I think you are having low e2 LOL

> She has mentioning a gyno which may mean ENDO that he went to..

> 50 mgs of dhea for a women is way too much. The dosage reflect more of a male

then female. If a female is taking this I bet your clit is hanging down to

knees and has voice deeper then mine.

>

[Guest guest]

Xian as allways Great post thinks don't know what we would do with out you.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...>

> Subject: Re: Need some help, please

>

> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 1:16 AM

> My apologies, I could have been

> clearer.  Since a pg/mL is 1/100,000 the amount of a

> ng/dL, and women have lab results for testosterone in ng/dL

> and estradiol in pg/mL, women actually have more

> testosterone than estradiol in their bodies.  In

> application, it only takes a small amount of estradiol (a

> few mg) to raise blood levels from 100 pg/mL to 300 pg/mL,

> but it takes more mg of testosterone to raise blood levels

> of T from 15 ng/dL to 65 ng/dL.   

>

> It is often difficult to correlate lab results of

> testosterone and estradiol to how one feels (vs. blood

> glucose which has somewhat more predictable trends). 

> It can make sense to pay more attention to a difference you

> can feel.

>

> Some guys here like DIM and some have had unpleasant

> reactions or lack of response.  I haven't heard from

> any women who've taken DIM. I think DIM is not good on its

> own.  There are conflicting conclusions about DIM

> reducing or increasing the carcinogenic effects of

> estrogen.  It seems that I3C, which DIM is made from,

> helps ensure that DIM plays a positive role in estrogen

> metabolism (http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/jan2002_report_i3c_01.html). 

> The best bet would be to supplement with both I3C and DIM

> simultaneously or stick with cruciferous vegetables. 

> It might be hard to tell how much estrogen is " active " if

> you take I3C/DIM, but since you don't fret over lab results,

> that shouldn't be much of a problem :-)

>

> I highly disagree with the article about men in their 70s

> to 80s having " enough " testosterone around.  Men in

> that age range may be within the reference range of

> testosterone, but are often in the lower 1/3, if not below

> 300 ng/dL.  There have been studies indicating erectile

> dysfunction in men below 500 ng/dL testosterone (which would

> include most men over 70), as well as a recent study showing

> young men (20-30) having ED when below 400 ng/dL.  (The

> problem is how one defines " enough " , " normal " , etc. by

> problematic reference ranges.  In certain

> circumstances, the number is not meaningful.)  Further,

> bioavailable T and free T decrease even more significantly

> than total T with age (though the relevance of free T is

> debatable).  At one time, having lower T with age was

> considered normal for " healthy " older men; now the American

> Association of Clinical Endocrinologists recognizes that it

> is not:

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Hormone_replacement_therapy) 

> Likewise, it was once thought that testosterone did not have

> a clear role in erectile function, but that has been refuted

> by more recent studies.

> From a treatment-resolution perspective, it's frequent for

> men that age to have problems which testosterone can often

> diminish, if not eliminate. 

>

> Testosterone helps erectile function in multiple ways,

> including

> 1) increasing heart strength, pumping power, and

> circulation

> 2) increasing NO, which helps arteries dilate (similar to

> Viagra) and contributes to #3

> 3) increasing dopamine, a neurotransmitter involved in

> sexual arousal

> 4) increasing instance of nocturnal erection, which is

> necessary for daytime erections

> 5) increasing lung and diaphragm strength, which can make

> breathing easier (so one can exercise without fatiguing as

> easily), and improve

> sleep quality (men with COPD often have trouble getting

> good sleep);

> quality sleep is important for both erectile function

> specifically and testosterone production/conservation in

> general, as the body does not decrease T as rapidly during

> sleep.

> 6) increasing red blood cell production, thereby resolving

> anemia, which can contribute to erectile dysfunction-

(http://tinyurl.com/nta4av) or preview (http://preview.tinyurl.com/nta4av).

> 7) increasing growth hormone, which plays a role in

> erections

> 8) possibly increasing the strength of the pelvic floor

> muscles.

>

> Your dad might need to give it some time to see

> testosterone resolving his ED, though testosterone is not a

> cure all for ED.  Phil's comments on estradiol and

> erections are worth noting.  You mentioned your dad's

> on Amitrex- is this a brand name for Imitrex, the migraine

> medicine?  Or was it Arimidex, the estrogen lowering

> medicine?  Either of these might contribute to ED in

> different ways.

> Also, Flomax might contribute to ED. 

>

> Personally, I've found kegels help produce spontaneous and

> stronger erections better than Viagra or Cialis (and don't

> produce the " blue pill " headache).  A penis pump might

> also work, though one has to be careful with it.

>

> ~Xian

>

>

> >

> > Thanks, but that is very hard to understand. I go

> more how I feel than I do labs, and know when I am low in E,

> just like men know when they are low on T. I am wondering

> about Dim (the supplement) for myself. I haven't taken it

> but they say it suppose to help metoblise the estrogen

> better, keep the bad away.

> >

> > Anyways, I came across part of this on the web and

> would paste it below snd please tell me what you think.

> >

> > ====================

> > In his 70s or 80s a man usually has enough

> testosterone around, even though the level most likely is

> lower than when he was younger. The problem generally is a

> poor blood supply to the penis, which is what Viagra

> temporarily helps. Taking more testosterone will NOT

> increase the blood supply to the penis.

> > ===========================

> >

> > Now on regards to my dad who is 81 and started T

> pellets 700mg 5 weeks ago, and still having probs sexually,

> would it mean he has no blood flow going through this area?

> He does not want to take viagra. Now is there a way to get

> blood flow there, withour resorting to drugs if the T

> doesn't work??

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I feel Viagra has to many sides I and others have tried it and it makes me so

sick I don't feel like sex and this is a shame here you have good wood but feel

to sick to use it. As for DIM there was a good supplement out that we used but

I am hearing back from men that it's not made anymore here are some links about

it and some links to different brands that guys say works. When I was using

Indolplex/DIM my Dr.'s wife also a Dr. went on it when I told her about it at

the office she was having a hot flash and she said she has tried everything and

can't get any relief from this. Next time I seen her this told me the DIM is a

mircle supplement it took all the bad feelings she was having do to the change.

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

this link is full of links.

http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html

http://www.estrogen-balance.com/

You can try and see if they still carry this it's the best.

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

http://www.myvitanet.com/indolplex-with-dim-60-tab-phytopharmica.html

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/278/23/21136

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Whitfield <starlightvisions@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: Need some help, please

>

> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 10:14 PM

> Thanks, but that is very hard to

> understand. I go more how I feel than I do labs, and know

> when I am low in E, just like men know when they are low on

> T. I am wondering about Dim (the supplement) for myself. I

> haven't taken it but they say it suppose to help metoblise

> the estrogen better, keep the bad away.

>

> Anyways, I came across part of this on the web and would

> paste it below snd please tell me what you think.

>

> ====================

> In his 70s or 80s a man usually has enough testosterone

> around, even though the level most likely is lower than when

> he was younger. The problem generally is a poor blood supply

> to the penis, which is what Viagra temporarily helps. Taking

> more testosterone will NOT increase the blood supply to the

> penis.

> ===========================

>

> Now on regards to my dad who is 81 and started T pellets

> 700mg 5 weeks ago, and still having probs sexually, would it

> mean he has no blood flow going through this area? He does

> not want to take viagra. Now is there a way to get blood

> flow there, withour resorting to drugs if the T doesn't

> work??

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>   Re: Need some help, please

>

>

>     Sorry , I goofed. pg/mL is 1/100,000

> of ng/dL.

>

>  

>   > > > > >

>   > > > > > A gal using pellets! My

> gyno did a trial w/ me. The

>   > > > > improvement lasted about 3months

> and doc wouldn't repeat,

>   > > > > was a very cautious doctor. I

> since found a new one and am

>   > > > > in wk 13 of 12.5mg of Androgel

> per day plus 25mg DHEA

>   > > > > 2XDaily. I feel much better (but

> looking for more mental

>   > > > > connection re: fantasy, erotic

> thought to come back to match

>   > > > > the physical 'horniness')

>   > > > > > Email me if you want to

> chat.

>   > > > > Magiclea@

>   > > > > > Kay

>   > > > > > Hubby update soon. He has

> been on T injections for

>   > > > > about 3 months now. Lab review

> on Thursday!

>   > > > > >

>   > > > > Kay,

>   > > > > I have a few people using the

> pellets they need to be

>   > > > > replaced every 3-4 months not

> every 6 months like people

>   > > > > think. You really need to find a

> good dr to know what they

>   > > > > are doing with hormones because

> this women is trying but is

>   > > > > completely out of the loop. You

> need to look at baseline

>   > > > > readings of all your labs to

> know where to even start. 50

>   > > > > mgs of dhea will increase e2

> dramamtically and needs to be

>   > > > > measured as well as the

> metabolites of dhea needs to be

>   > > > > tracked to make sure there are

> going down the proper

>   > > > > pathway. 12.5 mgs of androgel is

> a rediculous amount

>   > > > > and what are your current levels

> and when are then tested?

>   > > > > Was it before or after the

> application of the gel. If

>   > > > > she is dosing you base upon the

> am morning blood draw with

>   > > > > out application of the cream

> this is why you are not getting

>   > > > > optimal results.

>   > > > >

>   > > > >

>   > > > >

>   > > > >

> ------------------------------------

>   > > > >

>   > > > >

[Guest guest]

Yes Hard is good people I have knowen him for yrs we helped Dr. start his

forum that today is a big sucess.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s= & daysprune= & f=2

Hardasnails is a great guy and now working with a Dr. to help and treat people.

http://www.matrixnutritionandfitness...trix/index.php

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...>

> > Subject: Re: Need some help, please

> >

> > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 6:55 PM

> >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > A gal

> using

> > pellets! My

> > > > gyno did a

> > > > > > trial w/

> > > > > > > > me. The

> > > > > > > > > > improvement

> lasted

> > about

> > > > 3months and

> > > > > > doc wouldn't

> > > > > > > > repeat,

> > > > > > > > > > was a very

> cautious

> > doctor. I

> > > > since

> > > > > > found a new

> > > > > > > > one and am

> > > > > > > > > > in wk 13 of

> 12.5mg

> > of

> > > > Androgel per day

> > > > > > plus 25mg

> > > > > > > > DHEA

> > > > > > > > > > 2XDaily. I

> feel

> > much better

> > > > (but

> > > > > > looking for more

> > > > > > > > mental

> > > > > > > > > > connection

> re:

> > fantasy,

> > > > erotic thought

> > > > > > to come

> > > > > > > > back to match

> > > > > > > > > > the physical

> > 'horniness')

> > > > > > > > > > >   

> Email me

> > if

> > > > you want

> > > > > > to chat.

> > > > > > > > > > Magiclea@

> > > > > > > > > >

> >   Kay

> > > > > > > > > > > Hubby

> update

> > soon. He

> > > > has been on

> > > > > > T

> > > > > > > > injections for

> > > > > > > > > > about 3

> months now.

> > Lab

> > > > review on

> > > > > > Thursday!

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Kay,

> > > > > > > > > > I have a few

> people

> > using the

> > > > pellets

> > > > > > they need

> > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > replaced

> every 3-4

> > months not

> > > > every 6

> > > > > > months like

> > > > > > > > people

> > > > > > > > > > think. You

> really

> > need to

> > > > find a good

> > > > > > dr to know

> > > > > > > > what they

> > > > > > > > > > are doing

> with

> > hormones

> > > > because this

> > > > > > women is

> > > > > > > > trying but is

> > > > > > > > > > completely

> out of

> > the loop.

> > > > You need to

> > > > > > look at

> > > > > > > > baseline

> > > > > > > > > > readings of

> all

> > your labs to

> > > > know where

> > > > > > to even

> > > > > > > > start. 50

> > > > > > > > > > mgs of dhea

> will

> > increase e2

> > > > > > dramamtically and

> > > > > > > > needs to be

> > > > > > > > > > measured as

> well as

> > the

> > > > metabolites of

> > > > > > dhea needs

> > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > tracked to

> make

> > sure there

> > > > are going

> > > > > > down the

> > > > > > > > proper

> > > > > > > > > > pathway. 

> 12.5 mgs

> > of

> > > > androgel is

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > rediculous amount

> > > > > > > > > > and what are

> your

> > current

> > > > levels and

> > > > > > when are

> > > > > > > > then tested?

> > > > > > > > > > Was it before

> or

> > after the

> > > > application

> > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > gel.  If

> > > > > > > > > > she is dosing

> you

> > base upon

> > > > the am

> > > > > > morning blood

> > > > > > > > draw with

> > > > > > > > > > out

> application of

> > the cream

> > > > this is

> > > > > > why you are

> > > > > > > > not getting

> > > > > > > > > > optimal

> results.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> Groups

> > Links

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 

> > > >    mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of

> this

> > message have

> > > > been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I heard so much about DIM but was always afraid to take it as I heard

it was an Estrogen blocker for women. Some say it doesn't decrease

estrogen just help to metabolize it better in the body. Now, this

woman took it for natural menopause? What about women who are on BHRT

who have had hysterectomies. I am due to get my pellets tomorrow!! I

am so excited as I have been feeling pretty bad as I am coming down

bigtime. If I start DIM, should I wait to get pellets inserted? Wht do

you guys think?

On Aug 27, 2009, at 9:49 AM, philip georgian wrote:

> I feel Viagra has to many sides I and others have tried it and it

> makes me so sick I don't feel like sex and this is a shame here you

> have good wood but feel to sick to use it. As for DIM there was a

> good supplement out that we used but I am hearing back from men that

> it's not made anymore here are some links about it and some links to

> different brands that guys say works. When I was using Indolplex/DIM

> my Dr.'s wife also a Dr. went on it when I told her about it at the

> office she was having a hot flash and she said she has tried

> everything and can't get any relief from this. Next time I seen her

> this told me the DIM is a mircle supplement it took all the bad

> feelings she was having do to the change.

> http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

> this link is full of links.

> http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

> http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html

> http://www.estrogen-balance.com/

> You can try and see if they still carry this it's the best.

> http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

> http://www.myvitanet.com/indolplex-with-dim-60-tab-phytopharmica.html

> http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/278/23/21136

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

>

>

> > From: Whitfield <starlightvisions@...>

> > Subject: Re: Re: Need some help, please

> >

> > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 10:14 PM

> > Thanks, but that is very hard to

> > understand. I go more how I feel than I do labs, and know

> > when I am low in E, just like men know when they are low on

> > T. I am wondering about Dim (the supplement) for myself. I

> > haven't taken it but they say it suppose to help metoblise

> > the estrogen better, keep the bad away.

> >

> > Anyways, I came across part of this on the web and would

> > paste it below snd please tell me what you think.

> >

> > ====================

> > In his 70s or 80s a man usually has enough testosterone

> > around, even though the level most likely is lower than when

> > he was younger. The problem generally is a poor blood supply

> > to the penis, which is what Viagra temporarily helps. Taking

> > more testosterone will NOT increase the blood supply to the

> > penis.

> > ===========================

> >

> > Now on regards to my dad who is 81 and started T pellets

> > 700mg 5 weeks ago, and still having probs sexually, would it

> > mean he has no blood flow going through this area? He does

> > not want to take viagra. Now is there a way to get blood

> > flow there, withour resorting to drugs if the T doesn't

> > work??

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Re: Need some help, please

> >

> >

> > Sorry , I goofed. pg/mL is 1/100,000

> > of ng/dL.

> >

> >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A gal using pellets! My

> > gyno did a trial w/ me. The

> > > > > > improvement lasted about 3months

> > and doc wouldn't repeat,

> > > > > > was a very cautious doctor. I

> > since found a new one and am

> > > > > > in wk 13 of 12.5mg of Androgel

> > per day plus 25mg DHEA

> > > > > > 2XDaily. I feel much better (but

> > looking for more mental

> > > > > > connection re: fantasy, erotic

> > thought to come back to match

> > > > > > the physical 'horniness')

> > > > > > > Email me if you want to

> > chat.

> > > > > > Magiclea@

> > > > > > > Kay

> > > > > > > Hubby update soon. He has

> > been on T injections for

> > > > > > about 3 months now. Lab review

> > on Thursday!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > Kay,

> > > > > > I have a few people using the

> > pellets they need to be

> > > > > > replaced every 3-4 months not

> > every 6 months like people

> > > > > > think. You really need to find a

> > good dr to know what they

> > > > > > are doing with hormones because

> > this women is trying but is

> > > > > > completely out of the loop. You

> > need to look at baseline

> > > > > > readings of all your labs to

> > know where to even start. 50

> > > > > > mgs of dhea will increase e2

> > dramamtically and needs to be

> > > > > > measured as well as the

> > metabolites of dhea needs to be

> > > > > > tracked to make sure there are

> > going down the proper

> > > > > > pathway. 12.5 mgs of androgel is

> > a rediculous amount

> > > > > > and what are your current levels

> > and when are then tested?

> > > > > > Was it before or after the

> > application of the gel. If

> > > > > > she is dosing you base upon the

> > am morning blood draw with

> > > > > > out application of the cream

> > this is why you are not getting

> > > > > > optimal results.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Kay thinks for this post my wife trys HRT but her OBGYN keeps giving her the

crap that is not good for women and can cause breast cancer.

Provera/Medroxprogesterone Aceta 1 x's/day 2.5 mgs. and

Estrace/Gynodiol/Estradiol 1 x's/day .5 mgs.

She tried this for 3 weeks and stopped taking it because it did not help her

sleep. This is the same crap she was on yrs ago when on the News they were

saying this HRT causes breast cancer. Her Dr. lives in the dark ages.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: wetbee40 <magiclea@...>

> Subject: Re: Need some help, please

>

> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 8:54 AM

> Hi Guys,

>    My gyno is NAMS certified, (North

> American Menopause Society)Her 'guru' is Dr Alan Altman.

>    Yep, I am a woman, 54 yrs old who used to

> have a kick ass 5 star sex drive which during meno dove so

> low into the basement that I could enjoy watching re-runs of

> Cheers! more than having sex.

>    The first thing Dr Sutter did was balance

> my Estrogen with Vivelle Dot 1.0 After Vivelle My level of

> Estradiol was 58 pg/ml In the range of 40-100 pg/ml

>

> With No T on board my T levels were

> 25 ng/dl for Total T range 2-45ng/dl

> 3.4 pg/ml for Free T range 0.1-6.0

> 1.37%  Percent T Free range 0.50-2.0

>    All levels were in 'NORMAL' range yet I

> was having SEVERE symptoms

> 

> My old gyno had me on 5mg (2.5/2x daily) of T a day in

> cream which did nothing.

> after 12 wks on the 12.5 mg.Androgel- One pump of androgel

> is 1.25g of 1% gel which is indeed 12.5 mg of T. An accepted

> level of T for gals.

>   My Total T and Free T are high, indeed, but she is

> concerned w/ the Percent Free which at last visit was 1.83

> percent.

>   she has me on 25 mg of DHEA 2x a day also has me on

> Lovasa Fish Oil and is monitoring my chol, which is fine.

>    Chuckle, my clit is bigger, but who on

> earth ever said that was a bad thing? Hubby loves that its

> easier to find <wink>...Tiz not, unlike my boobs,

> heading south though...Just perkier!

>  My voice is not lower. I apply the gel to the insides of

> my forearms where there is little hair anyway. I am not a

> hairy woman to begin with.

>    Quest Labs were used.

>    For me the important thing is. MY SEX

> DRIVE IS RETURNING!! yippeeeee. I was too young to feel so

> old. My joint aches are diminishing (T or fish oil-don't

> know, don't care) I feel better!

> New Labs in a couple months.

>   Thanks guys for your caring!

>    Kay

>

> From Power Surge.com

> In a study done in 1994, by Morales, Nolan, and

> Yen1, 82% of the 17 women were found to show an increased

> sense of well-being after 12 weeks of administration.

> Well-being was reported as improved quality of sleep, better

> relaxation, increased energy, and better ability to handle

> stress. No difference was noted in libido, but 5 of the 17

> did show improvements in preexisting joint pains and

> mobility during DHEA therapy at 50.mg per day. Most women

> and men above 40 years of age would benefit by using 25 to

> 50 mg per day in several ways.

>

>

>

> > I know phil but with 12.5 mgs of androgel for a female

> or typo meaning 1.25 mgs is more like it. I think you are

> having low e2 LOL

> > She has mentioning a gyno which may mean ENDO that he

> went to..

> > 50 mgs of dhea for a women is way too much. The dosage

> reflect more of a male then female.  If a female is

> taking this I bet your clit is hanging down to knees and has

> voice deeper then mine.

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

DIM converts the bad Estradiol into good E's so your liver can wash them out.

If you don't have high levels of E's don't take this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > From: Whitfield <starlightvisions@...>

> > > Subject: Re: Re: Need some help,

> please

> > >

> > > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 10:14 PM

> > > Thanks, but that is very hard to

> > > understand. I go more how I feel than I do

> labs, and know

> > > when I am low in E, just like men know when they

> are low on

> > > T. I am wondering about Dim (the supplement) for

> myself. I

> > > haven't taken it but they say it suppose to help

> metoblise

> > > the estrogen better, keep the bad away.

> > >

> > > Anyways, I came across part of this on the web

> and would

> > > paste it below snd please tell me what you

> think.

> > >

> > > ====================

> > > In his 70s or 80s a man usually has enough

> testosterone

> > > around, even though the level most likely is

> lower than when

> > > he was younger. The problem generally is a poor

> blood supply

> > > to the penis, which is what Viagra temporarily

> helps. Taking

> > > more testosterone will NOT increase the blood

> supply to the

> > > penis.

> > > ===========================

> > >

> > > Now on regards to my dad who is 81 and started T

> pellets

> > > 700mg 5 weeks ago, and still having probs

> sexually, would it

> > > mean he has no blood flow going through this

> area? He does

> > > not want to take viagra. Now is there a way to

> get blood

> > > flow there, withour resorting to drugs if the T

> doesn't

> > > work??

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >    Re: Need

> some help, please

> > >

> > >

> > >     Sorry , I

> goofed. pg/mL is 1/100,000

> > > of ng/dL.

> > >

> > >   

> > >   > > > > >

> > >   > > > > > A gal

> using pellets! My

> > > gyno did a trial w/ me. The

> > >   > > > > improvement

> lasted about 3months

> > > and doc wouldn't repeat,

> > >   > > > > was a very

> cautious doctor. I

> > > since found a new one and am

> > >   > > > > in wk 13 of

> 12.5mg of Androgel

> > > per day plus 25mg DHEA

> > >   > > > > 2XDaily. I

> feel much better (but

> > > looking for more mental

> > >   > > > > connection

> re: fantasy, erotic

> > > thought to come back to match

> > >   > > > > the physical

> 'horniness')

> > >   > > > > > Email

> me if you want to

> > > chat.

> > >   > > > > Magiclea@

> > >   > > > > > Kay

> > >   > > > > > Hubby

> update soon. He has

> > > been on T injections for

> > >   > > > > about 3

> months now. Lab review

> > > on Thursday!

> > >   > > > > >

> > >   > > > > Kay,

> > >   > > > > I have a few

> people using the

> > > pellets they need to be

> > >   > > > > replaced

> every 3-4 months not

> > > every 6 months like people

> > >   > > > > think. You

> really need to find a

> > > good dr to know what they

> > >   > > > > are doing

> with hormones because

> > > this women is trying but is

> > >   > > > > completely

> out of the loop. You

> > > need to look at baseline

> > >   > > > > readings of

> all your labs to

> > > know where to even start. 50

> > >   > > > > mgs of dhea

> will increase e2

> > > dramamtically and needs to be

> > >   > > > > measured as

> well as the

> > > metabolites of dhea needs to be

> > >   > > > > tracked to

> make sure there are

> > > going down the proper

> > >   > > > > pathway.

> 12.5 mgs of androgel is

> > > a rediculous amount

> > >   > > > > and what are

> your current levels

> > > and when are then tested?

> > >   > > > > Was it

> before or after the

> > > application of the gel. If

> > >   > > > > she is

> dosing you base upon the

> > > am morning blood draw with

> > >   > > > > out

> application of the cream

> > > this is why you are not getting

> > >   > > > > optimal

> results.

> > >   > > > >

> > >   > > > >

> > >   > > > >

> > >   > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >   > > > >

> > >   > > > >

> Groups Links

> > >   > > > >

> > >   > > > >

> > >   > > > > mailto: -fullfeatured

> > >   > > > >

> > >   > > > >

> > >   > > > >

> > >   > > >

> > >   > > >

> > >   > > >

> > >   > >

> > >   > >

> > >   > >

> > >   > > [Non-text portions of

> this message have

> > > been removed]

> > >   > >

> > >   >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >