Re: Now we are getting somewhere

[Guest guest]

I am sorry too but that you seen an Endo and he wants to take you off TRT this

is BULL SHIT you can't stop TRT for 6 weeks and get labs like before you started

on TRT. Your going to crash and your levels will drop even lower then they were

when you first tested. I say this over and over again Endo's and Uro's are not

good Dr.'s for low testosterone.

In the 27 yrs I have been on TRT Dr.'s would think because I was not feeling

better they if they sent me to see an Endo thinking they are experts at this

they were doing me a favor. I seen one 7 times in the last 27 yrs and each one

took me off TRT and let me crash and I would end up off work on sick leave. All

the ever found out was how dam sick they made me.

I have been helping men on the forums for yrs. and only read one post of a guy

that seen a good Endo all the rest would post they seen one and ended up sicker

then they were before seeing him.

In the USA Endo's are not good Dr.'s for low Testosterone for the first 23 yrs I

was on TRT I was told I am Primary meaning my testis don't work. It was just 4

yrs ago when I went on HCG this acts like the message sent to your testis from

your pituitary of LH and FSH to tell them to make more testosterone. My levels

doubled on HCG and this showed my new Dr. I am not Primary but Secondary we did

an MRI on my Pituitary and nothing showed up. But my pituitary is bad do to a

head injury 27 yrs ago from an Auto Accident. Not one of the dam Endo's figured

this out.

Here is why you can stop TRT and run tests your brain seen the Testosterone in

your blood from the low dose of Gel you were on. It stopped sending the LH and

FSH messages to your testis because you added Testosterone to your body.

Stopping the gel your going to crash lower then you started I feel this is

criminal a Dr. would do this to you. You just don't clear your system of the

Testosterone meds and go back to where you were before you started the gel.

The reason you did not feel better on the 5 grams of gel is it's a starting dose

and you needed to get labs in 2 weeks to see how the gel was working. Some men

start on this low dose and end up feeling better because the gel added

Testosterone to there base levels so lets say your levels were 400 and the low

dose added 300 to your 400 this brings you levels up to 700 and you feel better.

But now in the next week your brain sees this testosterone add to your blood and

slows down the LH and FSH messages from your Pituitary to tell your testis and

your levels fall all your left with is what the gel is doing 300. If your Dr.

tested you they would see this and it's Total Testosterone you check to dose

meds. Free Testosterone is only 2% of all the testosterone in your body.

All your Dr. needed to do is up your dose of Androgel to say 7.5 or 10 grams

and you would be fine.

After your leveled on androgel you do this by getting your Total T levels up

into the upper 1/3 of your labs range and you need to test your Estradiol levels

and keep them down to about 20 pg/ml using arimidex to do this.

Then you add HCG 250 IU's a shot every 3 days this keeps your testis working go

to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and the HCG Update

Dr. puts this out there free for you and your Dr. If you go to his forum

and post this about this Endo taking you off TRT that will have a lot to say to

you about doing this.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2

I must tell you when you stop TRT after being on it 7 months your going to crash

big time and feel like crap. But the big problem with doing this is when your

go back on TRT it will take 2x's as long to get your levels back up.

I can't tell you what to do but I am don't do this. Run from this Endo he does

not know what the Hell he is doing. Any good Dr. that knows about low

testosterone would not think to take someone off there TRT and let them crash.

I am just getting over heart bypass sugary the Dr. that did the sugary took me

off TRT without telling my wife or my family Dr. he let me crash thinking the

Testosterone meds would interfer with my sugary. It dam near killed me I ended

up getting bone infections in my chest where he used wire to hold my chest

together I ended up having 5 sugarys died 5 times and was out cold 17 weeks.

I can't prove this happened because he took me off TRT but we all know this is

what went wrong.

Your can read my story at this link and the update.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239

Go back to the Dr. that put you on the gel and have the dose increasted. When

you say your first set of labs were normal I am beting they were not normal a

man with a level of 400 is in the normal range but for a man over 100 yrs of

age.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: ryanrettell <ryanrettell@...>

> Subject: Now we are getting somewhere

>

> Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 9:49 AM

> Hi all, sorry in advance this is

> going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year old male with

> hypogonadism and I've been reading everyone's posts and I

> finally decided to post my own problems and hopefully I can

> get some advice.

>

> 7 months ago I had my family doctor check my testosterone

> because I have had a lot of the symptoms of low T (brain

> fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc). The labs came back

> normal, but then when I called to find out the actual values

> the nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml, well the range at

> Labcorp is 9-26 so I made another appointment ASAP.

>

> Luckily my doc agreed to get me on Androgel, however she

> has the opinion that so many young men are having low T

> because of the additives they put in food. After one month

> on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of course that faded.

>

> Also, I had my doc send me to a Urologist. I wanted to see

> if a varicocele on my scrotum could possibly be causing my

> low T. He checked it out and said not to worry about it. He

> also checked my free T and it came back 12.4 and he said

> " well, it seems to be working " and sent me on my way :/

>

> After another month on Androgel with really no difference

> in how I felt before getting on Androgel, I had my doc send

> me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we are getting somewhere.

> I discussed with him what I've learned on various websites

> and from you guys. He is really nice and actually drew me a

> diagram of how the testes interact with the pituitary gland

> and the difference in Primary and Secondary Hypogonadism.

>

> So, where I am at now is he wants me to discontinue the

> Androgel for 6 weeks to clear out my system and then do some

> lab work. Which I am all for, I would rather do it right.

> But, when I talked to him about not wanting to become

> sterile and have my testes shrink, he just said " yeah, they

> do get raisen-like "

>

> So, I need to find out what labs to get and maybe some

> resources to convince him that I'm still a young guy and I

> might want to have another child one day.

>

> Oh, and I also know someone who is a fourth year medical

> student doing clinicals with an Endo in another state. They

> have been picking the docs brain for me. They asked the Endo

> about using Clomid or something like that to keep estrogen

> levels in check and the doc said they never heard of anyone

> cycling drugs for that effect. So, it seems that doctors are

> trained to just go with the one route. Not like what I've

> heard you guys recommend.

>

> Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in advance for any tips

> or advice.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

hey phil...HELP!umm..as you recall,ive been on androgel for about a month and a

half...started feeling weird and having panic attacks..you suggested my

estriadol had gotten too high..i mentioned this to my dr. and she said it was

" out of her league " and suggested i see an endo.you say these guys arent good

for this..who would i see then??i feel like im losing my mind!they even put me

on paxil for my increased anxiety..is it safe to stop taking the gel?and what

kind of dr should i see?these issues are making things horrible in my

life..work,social life,etc is affected.and the panic attacks are hell.HELP!

---- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> I am sorry too but that you seen an Endo and he wants to take you off TRT this

is BULL SHIT you can't stop TRT for 6 weeks and get labs like before you started

on TRT. Your going to crash and your levels will drop even lower then they were

when you first tested. I say this over and over again Endo's and Uro's are not

good Dr.'s for low testosterone.

>

> In the 27 yrs I have been on TRT Dr.'s would think because I was not feeling

better they if they sent me to see an Endo thinking they are experts at this

they were doing me a favor. I seen one 7 times in the last 27 yrs and each one

took me off TRT and let me crash and I would end up off work on sick leave. All

the ever found out was how dam sick they made me.

>

> I have been helping men on the forums for yrs. and only read one post of a guy

that seen a good Endo all the rest would post they seen one and ended up sicker

then they were before seeing him.

>

> In the USA Endo's are not good Dr.'s for low Testosterone for the first 23 yrs

I was on TRT I was told I am Primary meaning my testis don't work. It was just

4 yrs ago when I went on HCG this acts like the message sent to your testis from

your pituitary of LH and FSH to tell them to make more testosterone. My levels

doubled on HCG and this showed my new Dr. I am not Primary but Secondary we did

an MRI on my Pituitary and nothing showed up. But my pituitary is bad do to a

head injury 27 yrs ago from an Auto Accident. Not one of the dam Endo's figured

this out.

>

> Here is why you can stop TRT and run tests your brain seen the Testosterone in

your blood from the low dose of Gel you were on. It stopped sending the LH and

FSH messages to your testis because you added Testosterone to your body.

Stopping the gel your going to crash lower then you started I feel this is

criminal a Dr. would do this to you. You just don't clear your system of the

Testosterone meds and go back to where you were before you started the gel.

>

> The reason you did not feel better on the 5 grams of gel is it's a starting

dose and you needed to get labs in 2 weeks to see how the gel was working. Some

men start on this low dose and end up feeling better because the gel added

Testosterone to there base levels so lets say your levels were 400 and the low

dose added 300 to your 400 this brings you levels up to 700 and you feel better.

But now in the next week your brain sees this testosterone add to your blood and

slows down the LH and FSH messages from your Pituitary to tell your testis and

your levels fall all your left with is what the gel is doing 300. If your Dr.

tested you they would see this and it's Total Testosterone you check to dose

meds. Free Testosterone is only 2% of all the testosterone in your body.

>

> All your Dr. needed to do is up your dose of Androgel to say 7.5 or 10 grams

and you would be fine.

>

> After your leveled on androgel you do this by getting your Total T levels up

into the upper 1/3 of your labs range and you need to test your Estradiol levels

and keep them down to about 20 pg/ml using arimidex to do this.

> Then you add HCG 250 IU's a shot every 3 days this keeps your testis working

go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and the HCG

Update Dr. puts this out there free for you and your Dr. If you go to his

forum and post this about this Endo taking you off TRT that will have a lot to

say to you about doing this.

> http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2

>

> I must tell you when you stop TRT after being on it 7 months your going to

crash big time and feel like crap. But the big problem with doing this is when

your go back on TRT it will take 2x's as long to get your levels back up.

>

> I can't tell you what to do but I am don't do this. Run from this Endo he

does not know what the Hell he is doing. Any good Dr. that knows about low

testosterone would not think to take someone off there TRT and let them crash.

>

> I am just getting over heart bypass sugary the Dr. that did the sugary took me

off TRT without telling my wife or my family Dr. he let me crash thinking the

Testosterone meds would interfer with my sugary. It dam near killed me I ended

up getting bone infections in my chest where he used wire to hold my chest

together I ended up having 5 sugarys died 5 times and was out cold 17 weeks.

>

> I can't prove this happened because he took me off TRT but we all know this is

what went wrong.

>

> Your can read my story at this link and the update.

> http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239

>

> Go back to the Dr. that put you on the gel and have the dose increasted. When

you say your first set of labs were normal I am beting they were not normal a

man with a level of 400 is in the normal range but for a man over 100 yrs of

age.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

>

>

>

> > From: ryanrettell <ryanrettell@...>

> > Subject: Now we are getting somewhere

> >

> > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 9:49 AM

> > Hi all, sorry in advance this is

> > going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year old male with

> > hypogonadism and I've been reading everyone's posts and I

> > finally decided to post my own problems and hopefully I can

> > get some advice.

> >

> > 7 months ago I had my family doctor check my testosterone

> > because I have had a lot of the symptoms of low T (brain

> > fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc). The labs came back

> > normal, but then when I called to find out the actual values

> > the nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml, well the range at

> > Labcorp is 9-26 so I made another appointment ASAP.

> >

> > Luckily my doc agreed to get me on Androgel, however she

> > has the opinion that so many young men are having low T

> > because of the additives they put in food. After one month

> > on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of course that faded.

> >

> > Also, I had my doc send me to a Urologist. I wanted to see

> > if a varicocele on my scrotum could possibly be causing my

> > low T. He checked it out and said not to worry about it. He

> > also checked my free T and it came back 12.4 and he said

> > " well, it seems to be working " and sent me on my way :/

> >

> > After another month on Androgel with really no difference

> > in how I felt before getting on Androgel, I had my doc send

> > me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we are getting somewhere.

> > I discussed with him what I've learned on various websites

> > and from you guys. He is really nice and actually drew me a

> > diagram of how the testes interact with the pituitary gland

> > and the difference in Primary and Secondary Hypogonadism.

> >

> > So, where I am at now is he wants me to discontinue the

> > Androgel for 6 weeks to clear out my system and then do some

> > lab work. Which I am all for, I would rather do it right.

> > But, when I talked to him about not wanting to become

> > sterile and have my testes shrink, he just said " yeah, they

> > do get raisen-like "

> >

> > So, I need to find out what labs to get and maybe some

> > resources to convince him that I'm still a young guy and I

> > might want to have another child one day.

> >

> > Oh, and I also know someone who is a fourth year medical

> > student doing clinicals with an Endo in another state. They

> > have been picking the docs brain for me. They asked the Endo

> > about using Clomid or something like that to keep estrogen

> > levels in check and the doc said they never heard of anyone

> > cycling drugs for that effect. So, it seems that doctors are

> > trained to just go with the one route. Not like what I've

> > heard you guys recommend.

> >

> > Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in advance for any tips

> > or advice.

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

So your Dr. will not even test your estradiol levels WTF will it kill her to

test this all you need to know is it high. It might be out of her league but if

your high we can tell you how to get this down. Paxil is not going to help you

and it's a bitch to come off many withdraw problems.

Is the Paxil helping all it did for me was space me out. I had a panic attack

this morning I let my Estradiol levels go to high 1 hr. ago I took .5 mgs of

Arimidex and it's gone. Tell me us where you live and lets see if we can find a

Dr. in your area.

In the mean time if you don't get night time and morning wood this means with

most men on TRT that there Estradiol levels are to high. And when we take

something to get it down the first thing to come back is this night time and

morning wood. So get some DIM take on Tablet at dinner time this will bring

down your levels by converting it into good E's that your liver will wash out.

This is a supplement sold OTC here is a link to a good brand.

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

This link is about DIM.

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

And this link has a lot of links about DIM.

http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

Take this and in a short time your levels will come down and you will feel

better. If your levels are very high it might take longer to get the night time

and morning wood but your still going to start feeling better.

When you get some night time and morning wood the kind so strong it wakes you up

your at your best level for Estradiol. Keep taking the DIM but later if your

wood stops your going down to low. So just stop taking it until your wood comes

back that morning go back on it but cut the tab in half.

Keep me posted how your doing and demand your Dr. test this do a Quest Labs test

#4021. The range is 13 to 54 you need to be at about 20 pg/ml.

Here are some links for your Dr.

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/nov2008_Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Ag\

ing-Male_01.htm

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

Endo's are not good Dr.'s for this problem and Uro's here is a link to help you

find a DO Dr. they are good ones but you will still need to call them and ask if

the Dr. treats a lot of men for low T and does he test and treat for high levels

of Estradiol and if he does does he use Arimidex. If a man is Secondary does

the Dr. use HCG. If yes you have a good one.

http://www.geocities.com/chrisgjsbcglobal (DOT) net/Osteopaths.html

Do go to the files section at the home page and read the file " Finding a New

Male Hormone Dr. " .

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > From: ryanrettell <ryanrettell@...>

> > > Subject: Now we are getting

> somewhere

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 9:49 AM

> > > Hi all, sorry in advance this is

> > > going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year old male

> with

> > > hypogonadism and I've been reading everyone's

> posts and I

> > > finally decided to post my own problems and

> hopefully I can

> > > get some advice.

> > >

> > > 7 months ago I had my family doctor check my

> testosterone

> > > because I have had a lot of the symptoms of low T

> (brain

> > > fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc). The labs

> came back

> > > normal, but then when I called to find out the

> actual values

> > > the nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml, well the

> range at

> > > Labcorp is 9-26 so I made another appointment

> ASAP.

> > >

> > > Luckily my doc agreed to get me on Androgel,

> however she

> > > has the opinion that so many young men are having

> low T

> > > because of the additives they put in food. After

> one month

> > > on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of course that

> faded.

> > >

> > > Also, I had my doc send me to a Urologist. I

> wanted to see

> > > if a varicocele on my scrotum could possibly be

> causing my

> > > low T. He checked it out and said not to worry

> about it. He

> > > also checked my free T and it came back 12.4 and

> he said

> > > " well, it seems to be working " and sent me on my

> way :/

> > >

> > > After another month on Androgel with really no

> difference

> > > in how I felt before getting on Androgel, I had

> my doc send

> > > me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we are getting

> somewhere.

> > > I discussed with him what I've learned on various

> websites

> > > and from you guys. He is really nice and actually

> drew me a

> > > diagram of how the testes interact with the

> pituitary gland

> > > and the difference in Primary and Secondary

> Hypogonadism.

> > >

> > > So, where I am at now is he wants me to

> discontinue the

> > > Androgel for 6 weeks to clear out my system and

> then do some

> > > lab work. Which I am all for, I would rather do

> it right.

> > > But, when I talked to him about not wanting to

> become

> > > sterile and have my testes shrink, he just said

> " yeah, they

> > > do get raisen-like "

> > >

> > > So, I need to find out what labs to get and maybe

> some

> > > resources to convince him that I'm still a young

> guy and I

> > > might want to have another child one day.

> > >

> > > Oh, and I also know someone who is a fourth year

> medical

> > > student doing clinicals with an Endo in another

> state. They

> > > have been picking the docs brain for me. They

> asked the Endo

> > > about using Clomid or something like that to keep

> estrogen

> > > levels in check and the doc said they never heard

> of anyone

> > > cycling drugs for that effect. So, it seems that

> doctors are

> > > trained to just go with the one route. Not like

> what I've

> > > heard you guys recommend.

> > >

> > > Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in advance

> for any tips

> > > or advice.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

i live in Virginia,area code 23707.

ive found a few endos but no appts yet..

i guess my dr could test me again but once i brought up estrogen and arimidex i

could tell she didnt understand my plight and thats why she suggested an endo.

ive only been on the paxil 5 days.i have noticed that my breathing issues have

subsided a little.my eyes get dialated.and my sagging libido is pretty much dead

now.

---- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> So your Dr. will not even test your estradiol levels WTF will it kill her to

test this all you need to know is it high. It might be out of her league but if

your high we can tell you how to get this down. Paxil is not going to help you

and it's a bitch to come off many withdraw problems.

>

> Is the Paxil helping all it did for me was space me out. I had a panic attack

this morning I let my Estradiol levels go to high 1 hr. ago I took .5 mgs of

Arimidex and it's gone. Tell me us where you live and lets see if we can find a

Dr. in your area.

>

> In the mean time if you don't get night time and morning wood this means with

most men on TRT that there Estradiol levels are to high. And when we take

something to get it down the first thing to come back is this night time and

morning wood. So get some DIM take on Tablet at dinner time this will bring

down your levels by converting it into good E's that your liver will wash out.

This is a supplement sold OTC here is a link to a good brand.

> http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

> This link is about DIM.

> http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

> And this link has a lot of links about DIM.

> http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

>

> Take this and in a short time your levels will come down and you will feel

better. If your levels are very high it might take longer to get the night time

and morning wood but your still going to start feeling better.

>

> When you get some night time and morning wood the kind so strong it wakes you

up your at your best level for Estradiol. Keep taking the DIM but later if your

wood stops your going down to low. So just stop taking it until your wood comes

back that morning go back on it but cut the tab in half.

>

> Keep me posted how your doing and demand your Dr. test this do a Quest Labs

test #4021. The range is 13 to 54 you need to be at about 20 pg/ml.

>

> Here are some links for your Dr.

> http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

>

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/nov2008_Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Ag\

ing-Male_01.htm

> http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

>

> Endo's are not good Dr.'s for this problem and Uro's here is a link to help

you find a DO Dr. they are good ones but you will still need to call them and

ask if the Dr. treats a lot of men for low T and does he test and treat for high

levels of Estradiol and if he does does he use Arimidex. If a man is Secondary

does the Dr. use HCG. If yes you have a good one.

> http://www.geocities.com/chrisgjsbcglobal (DOT) net/Osteopaths.html

>

> Do go to the files section at the home page and read the file " Finding a New

Male Hormone Dr. " .

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

>

>

> > >

> > > > From: ryanrettell <ryanrettell@...>

> > > > Subject: Now we are getting

> > somewhere

> > > >

> > > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 9:49 AM

> > > > Hi all, sorry in advance this is

> > > > going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year old male

> > with

> > > > hypogonadism and I've been reading everyone's

> > posts and I

> > > > finally decided to post my own problems and

> > hopefully I can

> > > > get some advice.

> > > >

> > > > 7 months ago I had my family doctor check my

> > testosterone

> > > > because I have had a lot of the symptoms of low T

> > (brain

> > > > fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc). The labs

> > came back

> > > > normal, but then when I called to find out the

> > actual values

> > > > the nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml, well the

> > range at

> > > > Labcorp is 9-26 so I made another appointment

> > ASAP.

> > > >

> > > > Luckily my doc agreed to get me on Androgel,

> > however she

> > > > has the opinion that so many young men are having

> > low T

> > > > because of the additives they put in food. After

> > one month

> > > > on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of course that

> > faded.

> > > >

> > > > Also, I had my doc send me to a Urologist. I

> > wanted to see

> > > > if a varicocele on my scrotum could possibly be

> > causing my

> > > > low T. He checked it out and said not to worry

> > about it. He

> > > > also checked my free T and it came back 12.4 and

> > he said

> > > > " well, it seems to be working " and sent me on my

> > way :/

> > > >

> > > > After another month on Androgel with really no

> > difference

> > > > in how I felt before getting on Androgel, I had

> > my doc send

> > > > me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we are getting

> > somewhere.

> > > > I discussed with him what I've learned on various

> > websites

> > > > and from you guys. He is really nice and actually

> > drew me a

> > > > diagram of how the testes interact with the

> > pituitary gland

> > > > and the difference in Primary and Secondary

> > Hypogonadism.

> > > >

> > > > So, where I am at now is he wants me to

> > discontinue the

> > > > Androgel for 6 weeks to clear out my system and

> > then do some

> > > > lab work. Which I am all for, I would rather do

> > it right.

> > > > But, when I talked to him about not wanting to

> > become

> > > > sterile and have my testes shrink, he just said

> > " yeah, they

> > > > do get raisen-like "

> > > >

> > > > So, I need to find out what labs to get and maybe

> > some

> > > > resources to convince him that I'm still a young

> > guy and I

> > > > might want to have another child one day.

> > > >

> > > > Oh, and I also know someone who is a fourth year

> > medical

> > > > student doing clinicals with an Endo in another

> > state. They

> > > > have been picking the docs brain for me. They

> > asked the Endo

> > > > about using Clomid or something like that to keep

> > estrogen

> > > > levels in check and the doc said they never heard

> > of anyone

> > > > cycling drugs for that effect. So, it seems that

> > doctors are

> > > > trained to just go with the one route. Not like

> > what I've

> > > > heard you guys recommend.

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in advance

> > for any tips

> > > > or advice.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I feel for panic problems Xanax helps better and you only need to take this when

your having the attack. Don't waste your time with Endo's they are not good

Dr.'s for men's hormones. Dr.'s feel they are and think they are doing right by

you sending you to see one. They are only good for high sugary problems most

people I talk to tell me they are the worst for Thyroid problems and lot of

Dr.'s think sending you to see an Endo that they are the best they are not.

They are the worst legends in there own minds.

You could drive and see Dr. O and Hardasnails1973 he only needs to see you once

and the rest they can do by phone and they take all health care plains.

Overbeck hardasnails1973@... 484-868-0916 contact 1100 fayette

st Conshohocken Internal medicine Male and female hormone disorders and

metabolic disorders 610-828-2026

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > > >

> > > > > From: ryanrettell <ryanrettell@...>

> > > > > Subject: Now we are

> getting

> > > somewhere

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009,

> 9:49 AM

> > > > > Hi all, sorry in advance this is

> > > > > going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year

> old male

> > > with

> > > > > hypogonadism and I've been reading

> everyone's

> > > posts and I

> > > > > finally decided to post my own problems

> and

> > > hopefully I can

> > > > > get some advice.

> > > > >

> > > > > 7 months ago I had my family doctor

> check my

> > > testosterone

> > > > > because I have had a lot of the

> symptoms of low T

> > > (brain

> > > > > fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc).

> The labs

> > > came back

> > > > > normal, but then when I called to find

> out the

> > > actual values

> > > > > the nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml,

> well the

> > > range at

> > > > > Labcorp is 9-26 so I made another

> appointment

> > > ASAP.

> > > > >

> > > > > Luckily my doc agreed to get me on

> Androgel,

> > > however she

> > > > > has the opinion that so many young men

> are having

> > > low T

> > > > > because of the additives they put in

> food. After

> > > one month

> > > > > on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of

> course that

> > > faded.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, I had my doc send me to a

> Urologist. I

> > > wanted to see

> > > > > if a varicocele on my scrotum could

> possibly be

> > > causing my

> > > > > low T. He checked it out and said not

> to worry

> > > about it. He

> > > > > also checked my free T and it came back

> 12.4 and

> > > he said

> > > > > " well, it seems to be working " and sent

> me on my

> > > way :/

> > > > >

> > > > > After another month on Androgel with

> really no

> > > difference

> > > > > in how I felt before getting on

> Androgel, I had

> > > my doc send

> > > > > me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we

> are getting

> > > somewhere.

> > > > > I discussed with him what I've learned

> on various

> > > websites

> > > > > and from you guys. He is really nice

> and actually

> > > drew me a

> > > > > diagram of how the testes interact with

> the

> > > pituitary gland

> > > > > and the difference in Primary and

> Secondary

> > > Hypogonadism.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, where I am at now is he wants me

> to

> > > discontinue the

> > > > > Androgel for 6 weeks to clear out my

> system and

> > > then do some

> > > > > lab work. Which I am all for, I would

> rather do

> > > it right.

> > > > > But, when I talked to him about not

> wanting to

> > > become

> > > > > sterile and have my testes shrink, he

> just said

> > > " yeah, they

> > > > > do get raisen-like "

> > > > >

> > > > > So, I need to find out what labs to get

> and maybe

> > > some

> > > > > resources to convince him that I'm

> still a young

> > > guy and I

> > > > > might want to have another child one

> day.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh, and I also know someone who is a

> fourth year

> > > medical

> > > > > student doing clinicals with an Endo in

> another

> > > state. They

> > > > > have been picking the docs brain for

> me. They

> > > asked the Endo

> > > > > about using Clomid or something like

> that to keep

> > > estrogen

> > > > > levels in check and the doc said they

> never heard

> > > of anyone

> > > > > cycling drugs for that effect. So, it

> seems that

> > > doctors are

> > > > > trained to just go with the one route.

> Not like

> > > what I've

> > > > > heard you guys recommend.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in

> advance

> > > for any tips

> > > > > or advice.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Yes please feel free to contact me and I be glad to give you a quick over view

of what we are all about. My cell is 484-868-0916 call and leave a message or

email me hardasnails1973@... Looking forward to hearing from you soon

and doing out best to make you feel better.

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: ryanrettell <ryanrettell@...>

> > > > > > Subject: Now we are

> > getting

> > > > somewhere

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009,

> > 9:49 AM

> > > > > > Hi all, sorry in advance this is

> > > > > > going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year

> > old male

> > > > with

> > > > > > hypogonadism and I've been reading

> > everyone's

> > > > posts and I

> > > > > > finally decided to post my own problems

> > and

> > > > hopefully I can

> > > > > > get some advice.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 7 months ago I had my family doctor

> > check my

> > > > testosterone

> > > > > > because I have had a lot of the

> > symptoms of low T

> > > > (brain

> > > > > > fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc).

> > The labs

> > > > came back

> > > > > > normal, but then when I called to find

> > out the

> > > > actual values

> > > > > > the nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml,

> > well the

> > > > range at

> > > > > > Labcorp is 9-26 so I made another

> > appointment

> > > > ASAP.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Luckily my doc agreed to get me on

> > Androgel,

> > > > however she

> > > > > > has the opinion that so many young men

> > are having

> > > > low T

> > > > > > because of the additives they put in

> > food. After

> > > > one month

> > > > > > on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of

> > course that

> > > > faded.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, I had my doc send me to a

> > Urologist. I

> > > > wanted to see

> > > > > > if a varicocele on my scrotum could

> > possibly be

> > > > causing my

> > > > > > low T. He checked it out and said not

> > to worry

> > > > about it. He

> > > > > > also checked my free T and it came back

> > 12.4 and

> > > > he said

> > > > > > " well, it seems to be working " and sent

> > me on my

> > > > way :/

> > > > > >

> > > > > > After another month on Androgel with

> > really no

> > > > difference

> > > > > > in how I felt before getting on

> > Androgel, I had

> > > > my doc send

> > > > > > me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we

> > are getting

> > > > somewhere.

> > > > > > I discussed with him what I've learned

> > on various

> > > > websites

> > > > > > and from you guys. He is really nice

> > and actually

> > > > drew me a

> > > > > > diagram of how the testes interact with

> > the

> > > > pituitary gland

> > > > > > and the difference in Primary and

> > Secondary

> > > > Hypogonadism.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, where I am at now is he wants me

> > to

> > > > discontinue the

> > > > > > Androgel for 6 weeks to clear out my

> > system and

> > > > then do some

> > > > > > lab work. Which I am all for, I would

> > rather do

> > > > it right.

> > > > > > But, when I talked to him about not

> > wanting to

> > > > become

> > > > > > sterile and have my testes shrink, he

> > just said

> > > > " yeah, they

> > > > > > do get raisen-like "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, I need to find out what labs to get

> > and maybe

> > > > some

> > > > > > resources to convince him that I'm

> > still a young

> > > > guy and I

> > > > > > might want to have another child one

> > day.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Oh, and I also know someone who is a

> > fourth year

> > > > medical

> > > > > > student doing clinicals with an Endo in

> > another

> > > > state. They

> > > > > > have been picking the docs brain for

> > me. They

> > > > asked the Endo

> > > > > > about using Clomid or something like

> > that to keep

> > > > estrogen

> > > > > > levels in check and the doc said they

> > never heard

> > > > of anyone

> > > > > > cycling drugs for that effect. So, it

> > seems that

> > > > doctors are

> > > > > > trained to just go with the one route.

> > Not like

> > > > what I've

> > > > > > heard you guys recommend.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in

> > advance

> > > > for any tips

> > > > > > or advice.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

If you are willing to travel to PA then I would be glad to help you sort of out

your hormonal issues to get you back in balance. As you know I do work under an

MD so every thing is monitored and medically validated by him. We both

caliborate on the cases so the patient can get the best care possible from the

naturopathic side as well as traditional medical side. Contact info is

hardasnails1973@... or cell phone 484-868-0916. I am the contact for

the clinic. We also take many partcipating PPOS as well

We tend to look for the cause as well as supporting the effect on hormones as

well.

> > > >

> > > > > From: ryanrettell <ryanrettell@...>

> > > > > Subject: Now we are getting

> > > somewhere

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 9:49 AM

> > > > > Hi all, sorry in advance this is

> > > > > going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year old male

> > > with

> > > > > hypogonadism and I've been reading everyone's

> > > posts and I

> > > > > finally decided to post my own problems and

> > > hopefully I can

> > > > > get some advice.

> > > > >

> > > > > 7 months ago I had my family doctor check my

> > > testosterone

> > > > > because I have had a lot of the symptoms of low T

> > > (brain

> > > > > fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc). The labs

> > > came back

> > > > > normal, but then when I called to find out the

> > > actual values

> > > > > the nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml, well the

> > > range at

> > > > > Labcorp is 9-26 so I made another appointment

> > > ASAP.

> > > > >

> > > > > Luckily my doc agreed to get me on Androgel,

> > > however she

> > > > > has the opinion that so many young men are having

> > > low T

> > > > > because of the additives they put in food. After

> > > one month

> > > > > on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of course that

> > > faded.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, I had my doc send me to a Urologist. I

> > > wanted to see

> > > > > if a varicocele on my scrotum could possibly be

> > > causing my

> > > > > low T. He checked it out and said not to worry

> > > about it. He

> > > > > also checked my free T and it came back 12.4 and

> > > he said

> > > > > " well, it seems to be working " and sent me on my

> > > way :/

> > > > >

> > > > > After another month on Androgel with really no

> > > difference

> > > > > in how I felt before getting on Androgel, I had

> > > my doc send

> > > > > me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we are getting

> > > somewhere.

> > > > > I discussed with him what I've learned on various

> > > websites

> > > > > and from you guys. He is really nice and actually

> > > drew me a

> > > > > diagram of how the testes interact with the

> > > pituitary gland

> > > > > and the difference in Primary and Secondary

> > > Hypogonadism.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, where I am at now is he wants me to

> > > discontinue the

> > > > > Androgel for 6 weeks to clear out my system and

> > > then do some

> > > > > lab work. Which I am all for, I would rather do

> > > it right.

> > > > > But, when I talked to him about not wanting to

> > > become

> > > > > sterile and have my testes shrink, he just said

> > > " yeah, they

> > > > > do get raisen-like "

> > > > >

> > > > > So, I need to find out what labs to get and maybe

> > > some

> > > > > resources to convince him that I'm still a young

> > > guy and I

> > > > > might want to have another child one day.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh, and I also know someone who is a fourth year

> > > medical

> > > > > student doing clinicals with an Endo in another

> > > state. They

> > > > > have been picking the docs brain for me. They

> > > asked the Endo

> > > > > about using Clomid or something like that to keep

> > > estrogen

> > > > > levels in check and the doc said they never heard

> > > of anyone

> > > > > cycling drugs for that effect. So, it seems that

> > > doctors are

> > > > > trained to just go with the one route. Not like

> > > what I've

> > > > > heard you guys recommend.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in advance

> > > for any tips

> > > > > or advice.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

When the patient is not properly evaluated for adrenal and thyroid prior before

going on androgel there could be alteration in these hormones once a person

levels starts to hit the higher range. Dr's need to understand when not

properly evulating all hormones by giving one could cause other to go out of

balance. This is why when we put people on TRT we also watch to see if TRT does

not un cover hidden hypothyroidism or drive cortisol or dhea into the ground.

When the testosterone looks good, but the patient is expereincing other symptoms

then the dr needs to look at the imbalance which may have occured. When we put

people on TRT we check all hormones again in 6 weeks to make sure there are no

surprises, but in many cases there are and these need to be addressed ASAP.

Estrodial is a huge one, but also higher TSH, and lower cortisol is another. If

you want to be properly evaluated by competent person feel free to contact me

hardasnails1973@... or call me 484-868-0916

> >

> > > From: ryanrettell <ryanrettell@...>

> > > Subject: Now we are getting somewhere

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 9:49 AM

> > > Hi all, sorry in advance this is

> > > going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year old male with

> > > hypogonadism and I've been reading everyone's posts and I

> > > finally decided to post my own problems and hopefully I can

> > > get some advice.

> > >

> > > 7 months ago I had my family doctor check my testosterone

> > > because I have had a lot of the symptoms of low T (brain

> > > fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc). The labs came back

> > > normal, but then when I called to find out the actual values

> > > the nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml, well the range at

> > > Labcorp is 9-26 so I made another appointment ASAP.

> > >

> > > Luckily my doc agreed to get me on Androgel, however she

> > > has the opinion that so many young men are having low T

> > > because of the additives they put in food. After one month

> > > on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of course that faded.

> > >

> > > Also, I had my doc send me to a Urologist. I wanted to see

> > > if a varicocele on my scrotum could possibly be causing my

> > > low T. He checked it out and said not to worry about it. He

> > > also checked my free T and it came back 12.4 and he said

> > > " well, it seems to be working " and sent me on my way :/

> > >

> > > After another month on Androgel with really no difference

> > > in how I felt before getting on Androgel, I had my doc send

> > > me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we are getting somewhere.

> > > I discussed with him what I've learned on various websites

> > > and from you guys. He is really nice and actually drew me a

> > > diagram of how the testes interact with the pituitary gland

> > > and the difference in Primary and Secondary Hypogonadism.

> > >

> > > So, where I am at now is he wants me to discontinue the

> > > Androgel for 6 weeks to clear out my system and then do some

> > > lab work. Which I am all for, I would rather do it right.

> > > But, when I talked to him about not wanting to become

> > > sterile and have my testes shrink, he just said " yeah, they

> > > do get raisen-like "

> > >

> > > So, I need to find out what labs to get and maybe some

> > > resources to convince him that I'm still a young guy and I

> > > might want to have another child one day.

> > >

> > > Oh, and I also know someone who is a fourth year medical

> > > student doing clinicals with an Endo in another state. They

> > > have been picking the docs brain for me. They asked the Endo

> > > about using Clomid or something like that to keep estrogen

> > > levels in check and the doc said they never heard of anyone

> > > cycling drugs for that effect. So, it seems that doctors are

> > > trained to just go with the one route. Not like what I've

> > > heard you guys recommend.

> > >

> > > Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in advance for any tips

> > > or advice.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Again your dr jumped the gun with out properly evaluating the adrenal, thyroid,

and other sex hormones, as well as insulin. These Dr need to look at the cause

rather then the affect to properly treat the person to get optimal results with

less medication. All people that come into our clinic will be put to clomid

challege to see how they respond to see if they are primary or secondary. Once

this information is known then we can go ahead and balance the other hormones

along with tryign to restart their own. During the 8 weeks we also back fill

with nutrients and FAts essentual for proper hormone production to better

increase their chances of retraining the brain to work on it own. With out the

proper nutrients no matter how strong the signal hormones will not be produces.

there may be other factors that need to be looked at such as emotional and

potential hidden stressor that may have caused this. Some times hidden

infections or just having a cold can trigger low testosterone. It always goes

back to point space and time with in 3-6 months of these symptoms started to

happen. Crash dieting, trama physical or mental, ect. So if you want to get

proper help feel free to contact me and we be glad to get you feeling optimal

again or we will do our best to.

Hardasnails1973@...

484-868-0916

Bean

medical consultant.

>

> Hi all, sorry in advance this is going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year old

male with hypogonadism and I've been reading everyone's posts and I finally

decided to post my own problems and hopefully I can get some advice.

>

> 7 months ago I had my family doctor check my testosterone because I have had a

lot of the symptoms of low T (brain fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc). The

labs came back normal, but then when I called to find out the actual values the

nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml, well the range at Labcorp is 9-26 so I made

another appointment ASAP.

>

> Luckily my doc agreed to get me on Androgel, however she has the opinion that

so many young men are having low T because of the additives they put in food.

After one month on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of course that faded.

>

> Also, I had my doc send me to a Urologist. I wanted to see if a varicocele on

my scrotum could possibly be causing my low T. He checked it out and said not to

worry about it. He also checked my free T and it came back 12.4 and he said

" well, it seems to be working " and sent me on my way :/

>

> After another month on Androgel with really no difference in how I felt before

getting on Androgel, I had my doc send me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we are

getting somewhere. I discussed with him what I've learned on various websites

and from you guys. He is really nice and actually drew me a diagram of how the

testes interact with the pituitary gland and the difference in Primary and

Secondary Hypogonadism.

>

> So, where I am at now is he wants me to discontinue the Androgel for 6 weeks

to clear out my system and then do some lab work. Which I am all for, I would

rather do it right. But, when I talked to him about not wanting to become

sterile and have my testes shrink, he just said " yeah, they do get raisen-like "

>

> So, I need to find out what labs to get and maybe some resources to convince

him that I'm still a young guy and I might want to have another child one day.

>

> Oh, and I also know someone who is a fourth year medical student doing

clinicals with an Endo in another state. They have been picking the docs brain

for me. They asked the Endo about using Clomid or something like that to keep

estrogen levels in check and the doc said they never heard of anyone cycling

drugs for that effect. So, it seems that doctors are trained to just go with the

one route. Not like what I've heard you guys recommend.

>

> Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in advance for any tips or advice.

>

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:44:49 -0400, you wrote:

>

>i live in Virginia,area code 23707.

>ive found a few endos but no appts yet..

>i guess my dr could test me again but once i brought up estrogen and arimidex i

could tell she didnt understand my plight and thats why she suggested an endo.

>ive only been on the paxil 5 days.i have noticed that my breathing issues have

subsided a little.my eyes get dialated.and my sagging libido is pretty much dead

now.

Ask her to order the test . Tell her that way the endo will have

relevant information when he sees you and it won't waste another week.

That might get her to order it.

[Guest guest]

Hmm, talk about a reality check :/

Thanks for the response Phil. It sucks that you went through years of crap with

the doctors but at least we all can learn from your experience now.

It's been really hard to read through all the information on the websites, its

confusing medical stuff and the brain fog makes it worse.

You (and apparently most people who get TRT) say Endo's are the worst for low

Testosterone and that DO's are better. I looked up some and found that there are

two family medicine DO's in my area. I don't know if I should try to work with

this Endo or what.

Oh, and something I want to get off my chest. It feels like everyone assumes I

want on TRT for body building purposes. Like, when I tried to get my refill one

day early the pharmacy tech said they couldn't because it was a ...controlled

substance...ooooh.

>

> > From: ryanrettell <ryanrettell@...>

> > Subject: Now we are getting somewhere

> >

> > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 9:49 AM

> > Hi all, sorry in advance this is

> > going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year old male with

> > hypogonadism and I've been reading everyone's posts and I

> > finally decided to post my own problems and hopefully I can

> > get some advice.

> >

> > 7 months ago I had my family doctor check my testosterone

> > because I have had a lot of the symptoms of low T (brain

> > fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc). The labs came back

> > normal, but then when I called to find out the actual values

> > the nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml, well the range at

> > Labcorp is 9-26 so I made another appointment ASAP.

> >

> > Luckily my doc agreed to get me on Androgel, however she

> > has the opinion that so many young men are having low T

> > because of the additives they put in food. After one month

> > on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of course that faded.

> >

> > Also, I had my doc send me to a Urologist. I wanted to see

> > if a varicocele on my scrotum could possibly be causing my

> > low T. He checked it out and said not to worry about it. He

> > also checked my free T and it came back 12.4 and he said

> > " well, it seems to be working " and sent me on my way :/

> >

> > After another month on Androgel with really no difference

> > in how I felt before getting on Androgel, I had my doc send

> > me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we are getting somewhere.

> > I discussed with him what I've learned on various websites

> > and from you guys. He is really nice and actually drew me a

> > diagram of how the testes interact with the pituitary gland

> > and the difference in Primary and Secondary Hypogonadism.

> >

> > So, where I am at now is he wants me to discontinue the

> > Androgel for 6 weeks to clear out my system and then do some

> > lab work. Which I am all for, I would rather do it right.

> > But, when I talked to him about not wanting to become

> > sterile and have my testes shrink, he just said " yeah, they

> > do get raisen-like "

> >

> > So, I need to find out what labs to get and maybe some

> > resources to convince him that I'm still a young guy and I

> > might want to have another child one day.

> >

> > Oh, and I also know someone who is a fourth year medical

> > student doing clinicals with an Endo in another state. They

> > have been picking the docs brain for me. They asked the Endo

> > about using Clomid or something like that to keep estrogen

> > levels in check and the doc said they never heard of anyone

> > cycling drugs for that effect. So, it seems that doctors are

> > trained to just go with the one route. Not like what I've

> > heard you guys recommend.

> >

> > Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in advance for any tips

> > or advice.

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

, Phil knows what he's talking about. Mine wasn't' as bad as his, but I too

was told to " get off it " to see if my levels would stabilized. I spent the month

of July in a sad fog. DO NOT DO IT.

If " your Doctor " wont raise the dose, FIND ANOTHER DOCTOR WHO WILL>

-Wilfred " PelletButt "

> >

> > > From: ryanrettell <ryanrettell@>

> > > Subject: Now we are getting somewhere

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 9:49 AM

> > > Hi all, sorry in advance this is

> > > going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year old male with

> > > hypogonadism and I've been reading everyone's posts and I

> > > finally decided to post my own problems and hopefully I can

> > > get some advice.

> > >

> > > 7 months ago I had my family doctor check my testosterone

> > > because I have had a lot of the symptoms of low T (brain

> > > fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc). The labs came back

> > > normal, but then when I called to find out the actual values

> > > the nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml, well the range at

> > > Labcorp is 9-26 so I made another appointment ASAP.

> > >

> > > Luckily my doc agreed to get me on Androgel, however she

> > > has the opinion that so many young men are having low T

> > > because of the additives they put in food. After one month

> > > on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of course that faded.

> > >

> > > Also, I had my doc send me to a Urologist. I wanted to see

> > > if a varicocele on my scrotum could possibly be causing my

> > > low T. He checked it out and said not to worry about it. He

> > > also checked my free T and it came back 12.4 and he said

> > > " well, it seems to be working " and sent me on my way :/

> > >

> > > After another month on Androgel with really no difference

> > > in how I felt before getting on Androgel, I had my doc send

> > > me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we are getting somewhere.

> > > I discussed with him what I've learned on various websites

> > > and from you guys. He is really nice and actually drew me a

> > > diagram of how the testes interact with the pituitary gland

> > > and the difference in Primary and Secondary Hypogonadism.

> > >

> > > So, where I am at now is he wants me to discontinue the

> > > Androgel for 6 weeks to clear out my system and then do some

> > > lab work. Which I am all for, I would rather do it right.

> > > But, when I talked to him about not wanting to become

> > > sterile and have my testes shrink, he just said " yeah, they

> > > do get raisen-like "

> > >

> > > So, I need to find out what labs to get and maybe some

> > > resources to convince him that I'm still a young guy and I

> > > might want to have another child one day.

> > >

> > > Oh, and I also know someone who is a fourth year medical

> > > student doing clinicals with an Endo in another state. They

> > > have been picking the docs brain for me. They asked the Endo

> > > about using Clomid or something like that to keep estrogen

> > > levels in check and the doc said they never heard of anyone

> > > cycling drugs for that effect. So, it seems that doctors are

> > > trained to just go with the one route. Not like what I've

> > > heard you guys recommend.

> > >

> > > Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in advance for any tips

> > > or advice.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Before you see a new Dr. read " Finding a New Male Hormone Dr. " make calls ask

questions like how many men does the Dr. treat for low T and dose he test and

treat for high Estradiol using Arimidex and dose he use HCG to help keep ones

testis working.

Yes you can't get Testosterone early the Gov. has laws about it it's a

controlled med.

A lot of men can't find a good Dr. so they fly or drive out to see Dr.'s that

are good. Dr. O with Hardasnails is not Hard is a good friend and he is waiting

on his final doctorate approval entitled " allopathic vs natural HRT protocols "

In less then a year he will be have a Doctorate of Naturalopathy and be a board

certified ND, and Alternative medicine practioner.

And he is a trainer or you can see Dr. at www.allthingsmale.com he is a dam

good Dr. for low T one of the best. And there is Dr. M at

http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php

All of them are in the Database for Dr.'s if you want to phone them.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <ryanrettell@...>

> Subject: Re: Now we are getting somewhere

>

> Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 8:03 PM

> Hmm, talk about a reality check :/

>

> Thanks for the response Phil. It sucks that you went

> through years of crap with the doctors but at least we all

> can learn from your experience now.

>

> It's been really hard to read through all the information

> on the websites, its confusing medical stuff and the brain

> fog makes it worse.

>

> You (and apparently most people who get TRT) say Endo's are

> the worst for low Testosterone and that DO's are better. I

> looked up some and found that there are two family medicine

> DO's in my area. I don't know if I should try to work with

> this Endo or what.

>

> Oh, and something I want to get off my chest. It feels like

> everyone assumes I want on TRT for body building purposes.

> Like, when I tried to get my refill one day early the

> pharmacy tech said they couldn't because it was a

> ...controlled substance...ooooh.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > > From: ryanrettell <ryanrettell@...>

> > > Subject: Now we are getting

> somewhere

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 9:49 AM

> > > Hi all, sorry in advance this is

> > > going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year old male

> with

> > > hypogonadism and I've been reading everyone's

> posts and I

> > > finally decided to post my own problems and

> hopefully I can

> > > get some advice.

> > >

> > > 7 months ago I had my family doctor check my

> testosterone

> > > because I have had a lot of the symptoms of low T

> (brain

> > > fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc). The labs

> came back

> > > normal, but then when I called to find out the

> actual values

> > > the nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml, well the

> range at

> > > Labcorp is 9-26 so I made another appointment

> ASAP.

> > >

> > > Luckily my doc agreed to get me on Androgel,

> however she

> > > has the opinion that so many young men are having

> low T

> > > because of the additives they put in food. After

> one month

> > > on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of course that

> faded.

> > >

> > > Also, I had my doc send me to a Urologist. I

> wanted to see

> > > if a varicocele on my scrotum could possibly be

> causing my

> > > low T. He checked it out and said not to worry

> about it. He

> > > also checked my free T and it came back 12.4 and

> he said

> > > " well, it seems to be working " and sent me on my

> way :/

> > >

> > > After another month on Androgel with really no

> difference

> > > in how I felt before getting on Androgel, I had

> my doc send

> > > me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we are getting

> somewhere.

> > > I discussed with him what I've learned on various

> websites

> > > and from you guys. He is really nice and actually

> drew me a

> > > diagram of how the testes interact with the

> pituitary gland

> > > and the difference in Primary and Secondary

> Hypogonadism.

> > >

> > > So, where I am at now is he wants me to

> discontinue the

> > > Androgel for 6 weeks to clear out my system and

> then do some

> > > lab work. Which I am all for, I would rather do

> it right.

> > > But, when I talked to him about not wanting to

> become

> > > sterile and have my testes shrink, he just said

> " yeah, they

> > > do get raisen-like "

> > >

> > > So, I need to find out what labs to get and maybe

> some

> > > resources to convince him that I'm still a young

> guy and I

> > > might want to have another child one day.

> > >

> > > Oh, and I also know someone who is a fourth year

> medical

> > > student doing clinicals with an Endo in another

> state. They

> > > have been picking the docs brain for me. They

> asked the Endo

> > > about using Clomid or something like that to keep

> estrogen

> > > levels in check and the doc said they never heard

> of anyone

> > > cycling drugs for that effect. So, it seems that

> doctors are

> > > trained to just go with the one route. Not like

> what I've

> > > heard you guys recommend.

> > >

> > > Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in advance

> for any tips

> > > or advice.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Phil, looks like I will be making some phone calls

> > >

> > > > From: ryanrettell <ryanrettell@>

> > > > Subject: Now we are getting

> > somewhere

> > > >

> > > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 9:49 AM

> > > > Hi all, sorry in advance this is

> > > > going to be a long post. I'm a 29 year old male

> > with

> > > > hypogonadism and I've been reading everyone's

> > posts and I

> > > > finally decided to post my own problems and

> > hopefully I can

> > > > get some advice.

> > > >

> > > > 7 months ago I had my family doctor check my

> > testosterone

> > > > because I have had a lot of the symptoms of low T

> > (brain

> > > > fog, no libido, lack of energy, etc). The labs

> > came back

> > > > normal, but then when I called to find out the

> > actual values

> > > > the nurse said my free T was 9.3 pg/ml, well the

> > range at

> > > > Labcorp is 9-26 so I made another appointment

> > ASAP.

> > > >

> > > > Luckily my doc agreed to get me on Androgel,

> > however she

> > > > has the opinion that so many young men are having

> > low T

> > > > because of the additives they put in food. After

> > one month

> > > > on 5g Androgel I felt great, but of course that

> > faded.

> > > >

> > > > Also, I had my doc send me to a Urologist. I

> > wanted to see

> > > > if a varicocele on my scrotum could possibly be

> > causing my

> > > > low T. He checked it out and said not to worry

> > about it. He

> > > > also checked my free T and it came back 12.4 and

> > he said

> > > > " well, it seems to be working " and sent me on my

> > way :/

> > > >

> > > > After another month on Androgel with really no

> > difference

> > > > in how I felt before getting on Androgel, I had

> > my doc send

> > > > me to an Endocrinologist. Finally, we are getting

> > somewhere.

> > > > I discussed with him what I've learned on various

> > websites

> > > > and from you guys. He is really nice and actually

> > drew me a

> > > > diagram of how the testes interact with the

> > pituitary gland

> > > > and the difference in Primary and Secondary

> > Hypogonadism.

> > > >

> > > > So, where I am at now is he wants me to

> > discontinue the

> > > > Androgel for 6 weeks to clear out my system and

> > then do some

> > > > lab work. Which I am all for, I would rather do

> > it right.

> > > > But, when I talked to him about not wanting to

> > become

> > > > sterile and have my testes shrink, he just said

> > " yeah, they

> > > > do get raisen-like "

> > > >

> > > > So, I need to find out what labs to get and maybe

> > some

> > > > resources to convince him that I'm still a young

> > guy and I

> > > > might want to have another child one day.

> > > >

> > > > Oh, and I also know someone who is a fourth year

> > medical

> > > > student doing clinicals with an Endo in another

> > state. They

> > > > have been picking the docs brain for me. They

> > asked the Endo

> > > > about using Clomid or something like that to keep

> > estrogen

> > > > levels in check and the doc said they never heard

> > of anyone

> > > > cycling drugs for that effect. So, it seems that

> > doctors are

> > > > trained to just go with the one route. Not like

> > what I've

> > > > heard you guys recommend.

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, sorry for the novel. Thanks in advance

> > for any tips

> > > > or advice.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >