Reading a blood test for testosterone levels

July 27, 2009

I need some help here . My 18 y o son had blood work done and is having some

body image problems and feels " something is wrong. " . His testosterone level

reads 6.12 ng/ml . He tells me that's in the range of a 40 yo, is that correct?

He just had a Varicocele removed about 3 weeks prior to the blood work and has

to wear VERY tight briefs. Lifts weights, can bench press 250 lbs, and not much

body fat. The surgeon who looked at his blood work was not worried. On a scale

of 2.1-8.0 his reading was 6.12 ng/ml but if that is of a 40 yo then I am

concerned.

I don't know what to think of blood work being that my thyroid work up " showed

normal " for the longest time and I kept telling my Dr. I felt like CRAP.

FINALLY, I'm NOW off the chart and getting treated like I should years ago, but

they would not because of my blood work.

Does anyone have some insight her please.

Thanks,

July 27, 2009

The units here in the USA are ng/dL I am not sure but I think his is 612 in my

units and this is good he is above mid range. He is above mid range or 5.05 or

505 ng/dl if he were below 400 I would think his was low.

In my chart by age 617 is normal for age 25 to 34 but then this is in ng/dl in

the UK this would be 21.38 nmol/L don't have a conversion chart for ng/mL to

ng/dL.

Having Varicocele removed can help levels go higher but when did he have this

tested one needs to do this lab test first thing in the morning about no later

then 8am as the day goes on the levels go down. My having a Varicocele removed

need much more time to heal to see levels go higher. If you has symptoms of low

testosterone then he needs to give it time to heal.

At Dr. s site he has his testing and why for free go to

www.allthingsmale.com read TRT: A Recipe for Success for labs and why and read

FAQ's for how men feel with low Testosterone.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: beaucerongirl101 <beaucerongirl101@...>

> Subject: Reading a blood test for testosterone levels

>

> Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 3:14 PM

>

> I need some help here . My 18 y o son had blood work done

> and is having some body image problems and feels " something

> is wrong. " . His testosterone level reads 6.12 ng/ml . He

> tells me that's in the range of a 40 yo, is that correct?

> He just had a Varicocele removed about 3 weeks

> prior to the blood work and has to wear VERY tight briefs.

> Lifts weights, can bench press 250 lbs, and not much

> body fat. The surgeon who looked at his blood work was

> not worried. On a scale of 2.1-8.0 his reading was 6.12

> ng/ml but if that is of a 40 yo then I am concerned.

> I don't know what to think of blood work being that my

> thyroid work up " showed normal " for the longest time

> and I kept telling my Dr. I felt like CRAP. FINALLY, I'm NOW

> off the chart and getting treated like I should years

> ago, but they would not because of my blood work.

> Does anyone have some insight her please.

> Thanks,

>

> ------------------------------------

>

July 28, 2009

>

> > From: beaucerongirl101 <beaucerongirl101@...>

> > Subject: Reading a blood test for testosterone levels

> >

> > Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 3:14 PM

> >

> > I need some help here . My 18 y o son had blood work done

> > and is having some body image problems and feels " something

> > is wrong. " . His testosterone level reads 6.12 ng/ml . He

> > tells me that's in the range of a 40 yo, is that correct?

> > He just had a Varicocele removed about 3 weeks

> > prior to the blood work and has to wear VERY tight briefs.

> > Lifts weights, can bench press 250 lbs, and not much

> > body fat. The surgeon who looked at his blood work was

> > not worried. On a scale of 2.1-8.0 his reading was 6.12

> > ng/ml but if that is of a 40 yo then I am concerned.

> > I don't know what to think of blood work being that my

> > thyroid work up " showed normal " for the longest time

> > and I kept telling my Dr. I felt like CRAP. FINALLY, I'm NOW

> > off the chart and getting treated like I should years

> > ago, but they would not because of my blood work.

> > Does anyone have some insight her please.

> > Thanks,

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

July 28, 2009

First let me tell you I get a lot of young men that feel like him and think it's

low Testosterone they are looking at there self's in the mirror and not see

there true body. They obsess over little things that no one sees but them.

It's like the girls thinking they are to fat.

It's a stage they go though but needs to be watched or it can get out of hand.

He tested his Testosterone levels when they are on the down side. A man his

high levels first thing in the morning going down lower by dinner time. So I

say his levels are normal.

Guy with a Varicocele problem some have low Testosterone and with it's fixed

some of them there levels go back up not all. But there levels were very low

before fixing it.

Do this get him some Now brand ZMA this has Zinc in it and helps men that work

out do better. Zinc helps keep the testis healthy and holds down Estradiol.

This is what makes ones chest look puffy a lot of men take this and it helps

keep Estradiol levels down.

Men and boys with higher levels of Estradiol lose there involuntary nocturnal

erections that appear during REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep.

I don't know if you can ask him this but get someone to ask him if he dose not

get Strong wood in the morning something is wrong.

Have him take 3 caps of ZMA at bed time see if this gets rid of his puffy chest.

Here is a link you don't have to buy from it it's just info about it.

http://www.myvitanet.com/zmaanspre90c.html

Also have him take some copper 2 mgs at noon taking Zinc can lower Copper.

Also boys that go to the gym get involved with Steroids I pray he is not doing

this Steroids are bad and can give a man high levels of Estradiol and

Gynecomastia or man breasts.

If he dose a lot of Protein powder with SOY in it this acts like Estradiol and

can do this to his chest SOY is not any good for men.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: beaucerongirl101 <beaucerongirl101@...>

> Subject: Re: Reading a blood test for testosterone levels

>

> Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 4:43 AM

>

> >

> > > From: beaucerongirl101

> <beaucerongirl101@...>

> > > Subject: Reading a blood test for

> testosterone levels

> > >

> > > Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 3:14 PM

> > >

> > > I need some help here . My 18 y o son had

> blood work done

> > > and is having some body image problems and feels

> " something

> > > is wrong. " . His testosterone level reads 6.12

> ng/ml . He

> > > tells me that's in the range of a 40 yo, is that

> correct?

> > > He just had a Varicocele removed about 3

> weeks

> > > prior to the blood work and has to wear VERY

> tight briefs.

> > > Lifts weights, can bench press 250 lbs, and not

> much

> > > body fat. The surgeon who looked at his blood

> work was

> > > not worried. On a scale of 2.1-8.0 his reading

> was 6.12

> > > ng/ml but if that is of a 40 yo then I am

> concerned.

> > > I don't know what to think of blood work

> being that my

> > > thyroid work up " showed normal " for the longest

> time

> > > and I kept telling my Dr. I felt like CRAP.

> FINALLY, I'm NOW

> > > off the chart and getting treated like I should

> years

> > > ago, but they would not because of my blood

> work.

> > > Does anyone have some insight her please.

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

July 28, 2009

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:43:02 -0000, you wrote:

> Thank you so much for answering my post. I am a widowed and am dealing with a

17 yo weight lifter with a " REAL " self image problem in the

'testosterone/manhood " AREA. He is convinced something is wrong with his

development to the point of talking about plastic surgery on his chest. SILLY

ME for thinking that this area was more of a problem with teenage girls. What

a RUDE AWAKENING. Trying to deal with host of emotions at this time his self

image, going off to college, parental guidance, ugh....... I never saw this

coming with such force. He almost has me blaming myself for his being as if I

had control on his make up. At times, I'm ready to consider myself " childless. "

> I know for him at 17, 18 yo on August 4th being in the range of a 23 to 34

yo is still not desirable as he told me he should be WELL in his "

PEAK. " #######

>

> <<<<<< Having Varicocele removed can help levels go higher but when did he

have this tested one needs to do this lab test first thing in the morning about

no later then 8am as the day goes on the levels go down.>>>>

>

> ### His blood was taken 4:15 p.m. I did not know nor was I told there was " a

time factor. " Don't know if it makes a difference but he also had the blood

removed from the top of his hands not the vein in his arm. He is squeamish

about the vein in the arm thing to the point of passing out and the hand took

forever. I will let him know about the timing. Can that make " REAL DIFFERENCE? "

####

>

> <<<<My having a Varicocele removed need much more time to heal to see levels

go higher. If you has symptoms of low testosterone then he needs to give it

time to heal.>>>>>>>>>>>

>

>##### His symptoms he " believes to lead him to have low testosterone " are that

he feels he has Gynecomastia which his chest is nothing but firm muscle, no

way is there a " breast. " He also thinks his hips are " wide " OMG which is why

he thought his estrogen levels were high which they were not. It was to the

point of tears and outbursts for this poor kid, which trust me , I know he was

suffering as normally is as cold as ICE when it comes to emotions.

> That's why I was begging for doctors to run these tests.

>

>How long after having a Varicocele removed does it take for levels of the

testosterone to go higher, just curious? Also he HAS to wear TIGHT briefs for

about one to two years to keep the veins tight will that affect testosterone

levels?#####

>

> Thank you for all and any help,

I'd suggest exercise to break out of these worries and anxieties. Tell

him swimmers develop great shoulder and chests! Seriously though

exercise would probably do wonders for his mood.

July 28, 2009

-

>

> I'd suggest exercise to break out of these worries and anxieties. Tell

> him swimmers develop great shoulder and chests! Seriously though

> exercise would probably do wonders for his mood.

#######Thanks that he does, perhaps why he has become in this state of mind. I

don't know comparing bodies with the guys at the gym.

We live by the beach but he has this poor self image that something is wrong

with his chest so he will not go, that way he does not have to take off his top.

July 28, 2009

>

> First let me tell you I get a lot of young men that feel like him and think

it's low Testosterone they are looking at there self's in the mirror and not see

there true body. They obsess over little things that no one sees but them.

It's like the girls thinking they are to fat.>>>>>

########### Hi Phil,

That's EXACTLY it. That's why the blood work. There was nothing I could tell

him otherwise. He saw breasts when he has nice firm pecs. I tried to convince

him to show me pictures on the web on how his chest looks anything like the ones

with gynecomastia. He blurted out, " Well something is WRONG with ME , I know

it~!! " Then he texted me that he knows he has high estrogen because he has

wide hips. OMG!!!WHAT??!!!

I think you are right it's like a BODY MORPHISM except with the rage of a

teenage boy. I mean when he talks about seeing a plastic surgeon for his chest

that worries me especially since he looks great.######

>>>>> It's a stage they go though but needs to be watched or it can get out of

hand.>>>>>>>>>

######## A stage?? I hope it's a fast passing stage. Exactly....... what I

worry about and what I've talked to Drs. about. When there is no father to

relate to passing into manhood with that makes it VERY WORRISOME for me,

especially that he is suffering SO. I've already offered to take him into

counseling, well you can only imagine how that went over with a 17 year

old.#########

>>>>>>>>> He tested his Testosterone levels when they are on the down side. A

man his high levels first thing in the morning going down lower by dinner time.

So I say his levels are normal.>>>>>>>>

###### There is nothing physically that he is not normal in that I know.

Testing in the morning as oppose to evening can yield about how much of a

difference per say? Does any one know? I mean could it be a full point?

And by GOLLY why didn't that Dr. tell us that? Knowing that my son was dealing

with a complex of having low testosterone. I mean I was afraid this could

backfire " in his eyes. " He was so angry at me for not taking him to a plastic

surgeon to get his chest looked at. There is NO SAGGING or FAT on that child's

chest and I'm afraid a plastic surgeon will tell him what he wants to hear in

order to get some money.############

>

> Do this get him some Now brand ZMA this has Zinc in it and helps men that work

out do better. Zinc helps keep the testis healthy and holds down Estradiol.

This is what makes ones chest look puffy a lot of men take this and it helps

keep Estradiol levels down.>>>>>>>>>

######## OK will do!!!####

> I don't know if you can ask him this but get someone to ask him if he dose not

get Strong wood in the morning something is wrong.>>>>>

##### Well, I did ask him if he thought he had an erection problem, as he looked

at me strangely. :~) I told him that, that could be a sign of something wrong

from what I've read. He did not tell me he had a problem in that

dept.#############

>> Have him take 3 caps of ZMA at bed time see if this gets rid of his puffy

chest.

> Here is a link you don't have to buy from it it's just info about it.

> http://www.myvitanet.com/zmaanspre90c.html

##### OK, what if the puffy chest is in his head? Take it anyway?#####

>

> Also have him take some copper 2 mgs at noon taking Zinc can lower

Copper.>>>>>>

### OK####

>

> Also boys that go to the gym get involved with Steroids I pray he is not doing

this Steroids are bad and can give a man high levels of Estradiol and

Gynecomastia or man breasts.>

> If he dose a lot of Protein powder with SOY in it this acts like Estradiol and

can do this to his chest SOY is not any good for men.

####### I pray he is not taking them as well as I've talked to him about the

dangers. Showed him documentaries on TV about that subject. He drinks protein

powders with whey in it. He told me the same thing about men needing to stay

away from soy.#####

I SO hope that this is a stage. Thank you so much for your help,

July 28, 2009

You just tell him taking ZMA lowers Estradiol and his chest will look better

even if this is in his head guys at the gym will tell him the same thing maybe

this will work. Taking his Testosterone levels in morning they can be a good

100 to 200 points higher in my units.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: beaucerongirl101 <beaucerongirl101@...>

> Subject: Re: Reading a blood test for testosterone levels

>

> Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 6:26 PM

>

> >

> > First let me tell you I get a lot of young men that

> feel like him and think it's low Testosterone they are

> looking at there self's in the mirror and not see there true

> body. They obsess over little things that no one sees

> but them. It's like the girls thinking they are to

> fat.>>>>>

>

> ########### Hi Phil,

> That's EXACTLY it. That's why the blood work. There

> was nothing I could tell him otherwise. He saw breasts when

> he has nice firm pecs. I tried to convince him

> to show me pictures on the web on how his chest looks

> anything like the ones with gynecomastia. He blurted out,

> " Well something is WRONG with ME , I know it~!! " Then

> he texted me that he knows he has high

> estrogen because he has wide hips. OMG!!!WHAT??!!!

> I think you are right it's like a BODY MORPHISM

> except with the rage of a teenage boy. I mean when he talks

> about seeing a plastic surgeon for his chest that worries me

> especially since he looks great.######

>

> >>>>> It's a stage they go though but needs

> to be watched or it can get out of

> hand.>>>>>>>>>

>

> ######## A stage?? I hope it's a fast passing stage.

> Exactly....... what I worry about and what I've talked to

> Drs. about. When there is no father to relate to

> passing into manhood with that makes it VERY WORRISOME

> for me, especially that he is suffering SO. I've

> already offered to take him into counseling, well you can

> only imagine how that went over with a 17 year

> old.#########

>

> >>>>>>>>> He tested his

> Testosterone levels when they are on the down side. A

> man his high levels first thing in the morning going down

> lower by dinner time. So I say his levels are

> normal.>>>>>>>>

>

> ###### There is nothing physically that he is not

> normal in that I know. Testing in the morning as oppose to

> evening can yield about how much of a difference per say?

> Does any one know? I mean could it be a full point?

> And by GOLLY why didn't that Dr. tell us that?

> Knowing that my son was dealing with a complex of having low

> testosterone. I mean I was afraid this could backfire " in

> his eyes. " He was so angry at me for not taking him to a

> plastic surgeon to get his chest looked at. There is NO

> SAGGING or FAT on that child's chest and I'm afraid a

> plastic surgeon will tell him what he wants to hear in

> order to get some money.############

>

> >

> > Do this get him some Now brand ZMA this has Zinc in it

> and helps men that work out do better. Zinc helps keep

> the testis healthy and holds down Estradiol. This is

> what makes ones chest look puffy a lot of men take this and

> it helps keep Estradiol levels

> down.>>>>>>>>>

>

> ######## OK will do!!!####

>

> > I don't know if you can ask him this but get someone

> to ask him if he dose not get Strong wood in the morning

> something is wrong.>>>>>

>

> ##### Well, I did ask him if he thought he had an erection

> problem, as he looked at me strangely. :~) I told him that,

> that could be a sign of something wrong

> from what I've read. He did not tell me he had a problem in

> that dept.#############

>

> >> Have him take 3 caps of ZMA at bed time see if

> this gets rid of his puffy chest.

> > Here is a link you don't have to buy from it it's just

> info about it.

> > http://www.myvitanet.com/zmaanspre90c.html

>

> ##### OK, what if the puffy chest is in his head? Take it

> anyway?#####

> >

> > Also have him take some copper 2 mgs at noon taking

> Zinc can lower Copper.>>>>>>

>

> ### OK####

> >

> > Also boys that go to the gym get involved with

> Steroids I pray he is not doing this Steroids are bad and

> can give a man high levels of Estradiol and Gynecomastia or

> man breasts.>

> > If he dose a lot of Protein powder with SOY in it this

> acts like Estradiol and can do this to his chest SOY is not

> any good for men.

>

> ####### I pray he is not taking them as well as I've

> talked to him about the dangers. Showed him documentaries on

> TV about that subject. He drinks protein powders with whey

> in it. He told me the same thing about men needing to stay

> away from soy.#####

>

> I SO hope that this is a stage. Thank you so

> much for your help,

>

> ------------------------------------

>

July 28, 2009

>

> You just tell him taking ZMA lowers Estradiol and his chest will look better

even if this is in his head guys at the gym will tell him the same thing maybe

this will work. Taking his Testosterone levels in morning they can be a good

100 to 200 points higher in my units.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

###########

Thanks for your help Phil.

I will, he's already asking if we can go back to get a morning testosterone

done, after I had informed him of what you had told me. UGH!!!!

July 29, 2009

I feel like this about things like this with kids the more you worry about it

the worse it gets and there is not much you can do about it. So please don't

make your self sick over this he will get over this or get him help. We are

hear for you and him so anytime you have a question just ask.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: beaucerongirl101 <beaucerongirl101@...>

> Subject: Re: Reading a blood test for testosterone levels

>

> Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 9:08 PM

>

> >

> > You just tell him taking ZMA lowers Estradiol and his

> chest will look better even if this is in his head guys at

> the gym will tell him the same thing maybe this will

> work. Taking his Testosterone levels in morning they

> can be a good 100 to 200 points higher in my units.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> ###########

>

> Thanks for your help Phil.

> I will, he's already asking if we can go back to get a

> morning testosterone done, after I had informed him of what

> you had told me. UGH!!!!

>

> ------------------------------------

>

July 29, 2009

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:21:20 -0000, you wrote:

>

>-

>>

>> I'd suggest exercise to break out of these worries and anxieties. Tell

>> him swimmers develop great shoulder and chests! Seriously though

>> exercise would probably do wonders for his mood.

>

> #######Thanks that he does, perhaps why he has become in this state of mind. I

don't know comparing bodies with the guys at the gym.

> We live by the beach but he has this poor self image that something is wrong

with his chest so he will not go, that way he does not have to take off his top.

That's not that unusual for teenage boys. I have a 17 year old. He

wouldn't wear shorts till last year and would wear a T-shirt to the

beach and even swimming in the pool. He's just beginning to let all

that go. You're probably better off letting him now that's common.

August 2, 2009

--

> That's not that unusual for teenage boys. I have a 17 year old. He

> wouldn't wear shorts till last year and would wear a T-shirt to the

> beach and even swimming in the pool. He's just beginning to let all

> that go. You're probably better off letting him now that's common.

#############

GEEZ........ wish it were that simple. When he thought something was wrong

with his chest he already informed me that " I had ABSOLUTELY no idea/knowledge

of how a man's chest is supposed to look. " REALLY???

I'm just hoping that BEFORE he heads out to college I can enlighten him about

girls/women and staying focused on his studies and not losing his scholarship.

(YEAH RIGHT)

I'm sure I'll be told I have know clue or knowledge " about women. " :~)) as

well. Not so easy trying to talk to teens especially the opposite sex,well at

least in MY household.

August 3, 2009

When he looks down at his nipples he is looking from a distance of 6 inches. He

is making mountains out of molehills.

Millions of guys have puffy nipples or even breasts. Just look around at the

beach or malls at the guys. He is not alone.

I have one as a " B " cup & the other a " C " cup.

I now accept them as me. When I was his age I felt the same way as mine at 13

were larger than most of the girls at that age back then.

I have 47XXY Kilinfelters Mosaic. Nothing can be done about my chromosomes so I

now accept them.

Some guys elect surgery but they usually grow back if the underlying cause is

not corerected.

Surgery cost $7000.00+ & is not covered by insurance.

>

> --

> > That's not that unusual for teenage boys. I have a 17 year old. He

> > wouldn't wear shorts till last year and would wear a T-shirt to the

> > beach and even swimming in the pool. He's just beginning to let all

> > that go. You're probably better off letting him now that's common.

> #############

> GEEZ........ wish it were that simple. When he thought something was wrong

with his chest he already informed me that " I had ABSOLUTELY no idea/knowledge

of how a man's chest is supposed to look. " REALLY???

> I'm just hoping that BEFORE he heads out to college I can enlighten him

about girls/women and staying focused on his studies and not losing his

scholarship. (YEAH RIGHT)

> I'm sure I'll be told I have know clue or knowledge " about women. " :~)) as

well. Not so easy trying to talk to teens especially the opposite sex,well at

least in MY household.

>

August 3, 2009

Please go to Dr. no's forum and post to him for help he is a he is in

Psychiatry and believes most mental problems are do to hormones post your

problem to him he will reply to you tell him pmgamer18 Phil sent you.

http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php

Everyone here should go there and read his site and posts.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: beaucerongirl101 <beaucerongirl101@...>

> Subject: Re: Reading a blood test for testosterone levels

>

> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 11:48 PM

> --

> > That's not that unusual for teenage boys. I have a 17

> year old. He

> > wouldn't wear shorts till last year and would wear a

> T-shirt to the

> > beach and even swimming in the pool. He's just

> beginning to let all

> > that go. You're probably better off

> letting him now that's common.

> #############

> GEEZ........ wish it were that simple. When he

> thought something was wrong with his chest he already

> informed me that " I had ABSOLUTELY no idea/knowledge of how

> a man's chest is supposed to look. " REALLY???

> I'm just hoping that BEFORE he heads out to college

> I can enlighten him about girls/women and staying

> focused on his studies and not losing his scholarship.

> (YEAH RIGHT)

> I'm sure I'll be told I have know clue or knowledge " about

> women. " :~)) as well. Not so easy trying to talk

> to teens especially the opposite sex,well at least in

> MY household.

>

> ------------------------------------

>

August 3, 2009

>

> Please go to Dr. no's forum and post to him for help he is a he is in

Psychiatry and believes most mental problems are do to hormones post your

problem to him he will reply to you tell him pmgamer18 Phil sent you.

> http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php

> Everyone here should go there and read his site and posts.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>***************

Thanks Phil and Gin ,

We just got in another BIG argument, mind you tomorrow he will be 18 and " he

can do whatever he wants and doesn't need me. "

He texted me from work, telling me he needed to see an endocrinologist because

he still says his testosterone levels are not " NORMAL " for an 18 yo. "

He told me I was not a Dr. so " quit playing one. " I told you what you had told

me. He says he knows his body better then " anyone else. "

He says his hips are wider then " NORMAL " so now we are looking at the hips and

it's not because he is thin. He said that his hip bone should not be showing

like that unless he was as skinny as a Jew in a concentration camp. That his

bones aren't that big but they are protruding. AND THIRD that he does not have

a V shape. Obviously, he sees curves. Anyone that sees him know he is thin,

muscular but thin. Dr.s have even commented he has NO FAT.

" So EITHER he has crappy genetics or low testosterone during puberty, " he told

me. Fourth whether I THINK it OR NOT his chest is different because he goes to

the gym everyday, so " don't feed me no bull crap on it's muscle. And another

thing I've never weighed average for " my height " per his own words.

I recently found out that some girl is talking SMUT to him on the internet and

he has met some girls at the beach this summer. In other words I'm thinking the

insecurity of " what could be around the corner is kicking in. " It's even

carrying to the kind of car " he wants " I'm thinking safety being a widow, he's

thinking Ford F150 or mustang. I know the final say is mine unless he can get

some old MUSTANG or OLD truck that will worry the HELL out of me as well.

This is extreme isn't it? The chest and hips thing? Who tells a kid your

form/body is normal. Or could he be right and then what?

August 4, 2009

There is probably some guy at the GYM that he sees as the perfect body. He may

have been teased also by one of the bodybuilders.

Try again to explain that most men do not have perfect bodies.

Most men have some body problems.

Millions of men lead normal lives with wide hips and/or breasts.

He needs to open his eyes outside of the gym & see men as they are in real life.

Teens are a real problem. I remember my teen years & I would not want to repeat

them for any amount of money.

If he had his " T " tested it should be in the upper end of range & the E2 should

be in middle of its range.

If they are wrong they can be corrected

G

> >

> > Please go to Dr. no's forum and post to him for help he is a he is in

Psychiatry and believes most mental problems are do to hormones post your

problem to him he will reply to you tell him pmgamer18 Phil sent you.

> > http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php

> > Everyone here should go there and read his site and posts.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> >***************

> Thanks Phil and Gin ,

> We just got in another BIG argument, mind you tomorrow he will be 18 and " he

can do whatever he wants and doesn't need me. "

> He texted me from work, telling me he needed to see an endocrinologist

because he still says his testosterone levels are not " NORMAL " for an 18 yo. "

> He told me I was not a Dr. so " quit playing one. " I told you what you had

told me. He says he knows his body better then " anyone else. "

> He says his hips are wider then " NORMAL " so now we are looking at the hips

and it's not because he is thin. He said that his hip bone should not be showing

like that unless he was as skinny as a Jew in a concentration camp. That his

bones aren't that big but they are protruding. AND THIRD that he does not have

a V shape. Obviously, he sees curves. Anyone that sees him know he is thin,

muscular but thin. Dr.s have even commented he has NO FAT.

> " So EITHER he has crappy genetics or low testosterone during puberty, " he

told me. Fourth whether I THINK it OR NOT his chest is different because he

goes to the gym everyday, so " don't feed me no bull crap on it's muscle. And

another thing I've never weighed average for " my height " per his own words.

> I recently found out that some girl is talking SMUT to him on the internet

and he has met some girls at the beach this summer. In other words I'm thinking

the insecurity of " what could be around the corner is kicking in. " It's even

carrying to the kind of car " he wants " I'm thinking safety being a widow, he's

thinking Ford F150 or mustang. I know the final say is mine unless he can get

some old MUSTANG or OLD truck that will worry the HELL out of me as well.

> This is extreme isn't it? The chest and hips thing? Who tells a kid your

form/body is normal. Or could he be right and then what?

>

August 4, 2009

He has some big image problems and needs help Endo's are not good Dr.'s for

testing this and are the hardest ones to get to treat low testosterone so if he

sees one he will get an ear full. Did you go post at Dr. M's site he can help

you.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: beaucerongirl101 <beaucerongirl101@...>

> Subject: Re: Reading a blood test for testosterone levels

>

> Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 6:30 PM

>

> >

> > Please go to Dr. no's forum and post to him for

> help he is a he is in Psychiatry and believes most mental

> problems are do to hormones post your problem to him he will

> reply to you tell him pmgamer18 Phil sent you.

> > http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php

> > Everyone here should go there and read his site and

> posts.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> >***************

> Thanks Phil and Gin ,

> We just got in another BIG argument, mind you tomorrow he

> will be 18 and " he can do whatever he wants and doesn't

> need me. "

> He texted me from work, telling me he needed to see

> an endocrinologist because he still says his testosterone

> levels are not " NORMAL " for an 18 yo. "

> He told me I was not a Dr. so " quit playing one. " I told

> you what you had told me. He says he knows his body better

> then " anyone else. "

> He says his hips are wider then " NORMAL " so now we are

> looking at the hips and it's not because he is thin. He said

> that his hip bone should not be showing like that unless he

> was as skinny as a Jew in a concentration camp. That his

> bones aren't that big but they are protruding. AND THIRD

> that he does not have a V shape. Obviously, he sees

> curves. Anyone that sees him know he is thin, muscular but

> thin. Dr.s have even commented he has NO FAT.

> " So EITHER he has crappy genetics or low testosterone

> during puberty, " he told me. Fourth whether I THINK it OR

> NOT his chest is different because he goes to the gym

> everyday, so " don't feed me no bull crap on it's muscle. And

> another thing I've never weighed average for " my height " per

> his own words.

> I recently found out that some girl is talking SMUT to him

> on the internet and he has met some girls at the beach this

> summer. In other words I'm thinking the insecurity of " what

> could be around the corner is kicking in. " It's even

> carrying to the kind of car " he wants " I'm thinking safety

> being a widow, he's thinking Ford F150 or mustang. I

> know the final say is mine unless he can get

> some old MUSTANG or OLD truck that will worry the HELL

> out of me as well.

> This is extreme isn't it? The chest and hips thing? Who

> tells a kid your form/body is normal. Or could he be right

> and then what?

>

> ------------------------------------

>

August 4, 2009

>

> He has some big image problems and needs help Endo's are not good Dr.'s for

testing this and are the hardest ones to get to treat low testosterone so if he

sees one he will get an ear full. Did you go post at Dr. M's site he can help

you.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil################

Hi Phil,

Not yet, thanks for asking. Too busy fighting with him about life

(resentment towards me ) and his self image. The bottom line he told me

irregardless what an endo would tell him he will still seek out a plastic

surgeon. It will be on his buck.

I don't know. My first thought is that if I find a reputable plastic surgeon

pay for it perhaps it will convince him he is normal, which what is normal???

Everyone is shaped different. But then I think would he just keep seeking advice

until some plastic surgeon agrees with him. UGH!!! I don't think I CAN WIN this

battle. You know I was so happy that he was working out at the gym now I feel

that it has fueled this body image problem, that and the fact he had the

varicocele and will have to have surgery on his jaw. I think he is trying to

find issues with himself.

August 4, 2009

Are there any male role models in his life? A coach, an uncle, a

neighbor?

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:29:43 -0000, you wrote:

>>

>> He has some big image problems and needs help Endo's are not good Dr.'s for

testing this and are the hardest ones to get to treat low testosterone so if he

sees one he will get an ear full. Did you go post at Dr. M's site he can help

you.

>> Co-Moderator

>> Phil################

> Hi Phil,

> Not yet, thanks for asking. Too busy fighting with him about life

>(resentment towards me ) and his self image. The bottom line he told me

irregardless what an endo would tell him he will still seek out a plastic

surgeon. It will be on his buck.

> I don't know. My first thought is that if I find a reputable plastic surgeon

pay for it perhaps it will convince him he is normal, which what is normal???

Everyone is shaped different. But then I think would he just keep seeking advice

until some plastic surgeon agrees with him. UGH!!! I don't think I CAN WIN this

battle. You know I was so happy that he was working out at the gym now I feel

that it has fueled this body image problem, that and the fact he had the

varicocele and will have to have surgery on his jaw. I think he is trying to

find issues with himself.

>

August 4, 2009

I know he is your baby but there comes a point in time where nothing you say or

do will help and when he turns 18 it's out of your hands don't make your self

sick over this you can't do anything about so do your self a favor and just

stop. He needs to learn on his own no one can tell him I know when I was his

age no one could tell me anything.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: beaucerongirl101 <beaucerongirl101@...>

> Subject: Re: Reading a blood test for testosterone levels

>

> Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 11:29 AM

> >

> > He has some big image problems and needs help Endo's

> are not good Dr.'s for testing this and are the hardest ones

> to get to treat low testosterone so if he sees one he will

> get an ear full. Did you go post at Dr. M's site he

> can help you.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil################

> Hi Phil,

> Not yet, thanks for asking. Too busy fighting with

> him about life

> (resentment towards me ) and his self image. The bottom

> line he told me irregardless what an endo would tell

> him he will still seek out a plastic surgeon. It will be on

> his buck.

> I don't know. My first thought is that if

> I find a reputable plastic surgeon pay for it perhaps it

> will convince him he is normal, which what is normal???

> Everyone is shaped different. But then I think would he just

> keep seeking advice until some plastic surgeon agrees with

> him. UGH!!! I don't think I CAN WIN this battle. You

> know I was so happy that he was working out at the gym now I

> feel that it has fueled this body image problem, that and

> the fact he had the varicocele and will have to have

> surgery on his jaw. I think he is trying to find issues with

> himself.

>

> ------------------------------------

>

August 4, 2009

>

> Are there any male role models in his life? A coach, an uncle, a

> neighbor?

>##############

No, none, no man to talk to. When he was younger, as he was coming to his own

I did talk to a soccer coach about some male bonding, however the more I would

see and talk to his coach the more I felt I was beginning to see some " red

flags. "

Come to find out, my gut feeling was right, he was convicted as the worst

child molester in our county. A fear of mine that became a reality.

August 4, 2009

Good idea there. How about getting him a weightlifting set. He will need to eat

clean like a horse and lift weights. Packing on some hard beef sure helps with

the self image.

________________________________

From: " retrogrouch@... " <retrogrouch@...>

Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 10:42:25 AM

Subject: Re: Reading a blood test for testosterone levels

Are there any male role models in his life? A coach, an uncle, a

neighbor?

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:29:43 -0000, you wrote:

>>

>> He has some big image problems and needs help Endo's are not good Dr.'s for

testing this and are the hardest ones to get to treat low testosterone so if he

sees one he will get an ear full. Did you go post at Dr. M's site he can help

you.

>> Co-Moderator

>> Phil######## ########

> Hi Phil,

> Not yet, thanks for asking. Too busy fighting with him about life

>(resentment towards me ) and his self image. The bottom line he told me

irregardless what an endo would tell him he will still seek out a plastic

surgeon. It will be on his buck.

> I don't know. My first thought is that if I find a reputable plastic surgeon

pay for it perhaps it will convince him he is normal, which what is normal???

Everyone is shaped different. But then I think would he just keep seeking advice

until some plastic surgeon agrees with him. UGH!!! I don't think I CAN WIN this

battle. You know I was so happy that he was working out at the gym now I feel

that it has fueled this body image problem, that and the fact he had the

varicocele and will have to have surgery on his jaw. I think he is trying to

find issues with himself.

>

August 4, 2009

>

> Good idea there. How about getting him a weightlifting set. He will need to

eat clean like a horse and lift weights. Packing on some hard beef sure helps

with the self image.

#################

Thanks ,

He has them already. I don't know what's going on in his head. Really, I don't

know who he is anymore. I FEEL it's the test of the wills along with poor self

body image. He has no car, uses mine. Want's to get what he wants an older

sports car, like a mustang, conscientiously I can't do it. Send him off to

college in something that could lure him or others into racing and then file

him under my insurance.

He knows I'm emotional and he's as cold as ice because he figures someone has

to give and I'm sure he's betting it's me. The car, the body ,it's all a self

image thing as far as I'm concerned. Throw in the testosterone coming back at

a 6.1 on the scale for an 18 yo , it has to be a whole man hood thing. It hurts

me and he knows it. I guess it's like Phil said there's nothing I can do. I

can't relate to him being the opposite sex /throw in the mother factor. It's

horrible terms to have your only child leave home on, I'm crying as I type. It

kills me as I live across country yet talk to my parents everyday.Just tell me

most boys hate their mothers before they leave home.

August 4, 2009

I know I wasn't real happy about living at home. My parents moved out when I was

18. My father got a job in another city and I got an apartment so I could stay

and go to college. I missed home pretty soon after being on my own. At first it

sounded like heaven. I had to grow up quick because moving back wasn't an

option.

I think all children have this big idea of how great it will be on their own and

only their rules. It isn't that great but you have to learn this because you

can't see it any different.

Hang in there because no matter what happens you will always be " Mom " .

________________________________

From: beaucerongirl101 <beaucerongirl101@...>

Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 7:42:25 PM

Subject: Re: Reading a blood test for testosterone levels

>

> Good idea there. How about getting him a weightlifting set. He will need to

eat clean like a horse and lift weights. Packing on some hard beef sure helps

with the self image.

############ #####

Thanks ,

He has them already. I don't know what's going on in his head. Really, I don't

know who he is anymore. I FEEL it's the test of the wills along with poor self

body image. He has no car, uses mine. Want's to get what he wants an older

sports car, like a mustang, conscientiously I can't do it. Send him off to

college in something that could lure him or others into racing and then file him

under my insurance.

He knows I'm emotional and he's as cold as ice because he figures someone has to

give and I'm sure he's betting it's me. The car, the body ,it's all a self image

thing as far as I'm concerned. Throw in the testosterone coming back at a 6.1 on

the scale for an 18 yo , it has to be a whole man hood thing. It hurts me and he

knows it. I guess it's like Phil said there's nothing I can do. I can't relate

to him being the opposite sex /throw in the mother factor. It's horrible terms

to have your only child leave home on, I'm crying as I type. It kills me as I

live across country yet talk to my parents everyday.Just tell me most boys hate

their mothers before they leave home.

August 4, 2009

I almost forgot. If he is even a little interested in weight training, these are

some very good books for skinny guys called hardgainers. It will give real world

expectations and is totally against drugs.

http://www.amazon.com/Build-Muscle-Lose-Look-Great/dp/9963916309/ref=sr_1_1?ie=U\

TF8 & qid=1249434701 & sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Insiders-Tell-All-Handbook-Weight-Training-Technique/dp/99\

63916325/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8 & qid=1249434701 & sr=8-2

________________________________

From: Thornton <brianee93@...>

Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 8:10:18 PM

Subject: Re: Reading a blood test for testosterone levels

I know I wasn't real happy about living at home. My parents moved out when I was

18. My father got a job in another city and I got an apartment so I could stay

and go to college. I missed home pretty soon after being on my own. At first it

sounded like heaven. I had to grow up quick because moving back wasn't an

option.

I think all children have this big idea of how great it will be on their own and

only their rules. It isn't that great but you have to learn this because you

can't see it any different.

Hang in there because no matter what happens you will always be " Mom " .

____________ _________ _________ __

From: beaucerongirl101 <beaucerongirl101>