Re: Testosterone holiday???

[Guest guest]

I would be very surprised if your HPTA wouldn't be surpressed some. That will be

a roller coaster. Most of an injection is gone after 7 days. A better way to

catch the testes up would be HCG.

Just my 2 cents.

________________________________

From: ttwenties <ttwenties@...>

Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2009 5:39:02 PM

Subject: Testosterone holiday???

Hi all!

My last lab results came like this:

LH 4.9 IU/L (1.7 - 8.6)

FSH 5.3 IU/L (1.5 - 12.4)

Estradiol 31.52 pmol/L (28.00 - 156.00)

Progesterone 0.96 nmol/L (0.70 - 4.30)

Prolactin 15.06 ng/mL (4.60 - 21.40)

Androstenedione 1.86 ng/mL (2.4 - 12.6)

SHBG 25.5 nmol/L (in men 13-71)

Total Testosterone 12.61 nmol/L (9.90 - 27.80)

So, to my surprise, my doctor prescribed me:

Testoviron Enanthate: 250 mg/ml 1 cc/amp

1 shot of half amp (meaning 125mg) per month during 3 months.

He thinks that I'm not suffering from Hypogonadism since my LH and FSH

are normal. So, he thinks that by boosting my Testosterone

temporarily, my testicles will catch up, and stop being lazy.

So he prescribed this as a treatment and told me that after 3 months

my testicles should go back to their old selfs. He said he treated

many patients like this with success.

I asked if I would need to use a drug such as Nolvadex or Clomid after

these 3 months, and he answered that there is no need, since my HPTA

axis won't be surpressed.

I should be starting this treatment shortly but would like to hear

some opinions about it!

What do you say?

[Guest guest]

Hey ttwenties,

From what I've read, it can take 3-5 weeks to suppress natural T

production when using T cypionate/enanthate at 100 mg per week.

However, I'm not sure if using an equivalent dosage administered on a

different schedule- say, 250 mg T Cypionate per week for 2 weeks-

would accomplish the same effect. I doubt you'll get much suppression

doing once every month at 125 mg T enanthate (87.5 mg actual T).

I've never heard of a strategy like this. Keep us posted concerning

your results.

~Xian

>

> I would be very surprised if your HPTA wouldn't be surpressed some.

That will be a roller coaster. Most of an injection is gone after 7

days. A better way to catch the testes up would be HCG.

>

> Just my 2 cents.

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: ttwenties <ttwenties@...>

>

> Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2009 5:39:02 PM

> Subject: Testosterone holiday???

>

>

> Hi all!

> My last lab results came like this:

>

> LH 4.9 IU/L (1.7 - 8.6)

> FSH 5.3 IU/L (1.5 - 12.4)

> Estradiol 31.52 pmol/L (28.00 - 156.00)

> Progesterone 0.96 nmol/L (0.70 - 4.30)

> Prolactin 15.06 ng/mL (4.60 - 21.40)

> Androstenedione 1.86 ng/mL (2.4 - 12.6)

> SHBG 25.5 nmol/L (in men 13-71)

> Total Testosterone 12.61 nmol/L (9.90 - 27.80)

>

> So, to my surprise, my doctor prescribed me:

> Testoviron Enanthate: 250 mg/ml 1 cc/amp

>

> 1 shot of half amp (meaning 125mg) per month during 3 months.

>

> He thinks that I'm not suffering from Hypogonadism since my LH and FSH

> are normal. So, he thinks that by boosting my Testosterone

> temporarily, my testicles will catch up, and stop being lazy.

> So he prescribed this as a treatment and told me that after 3 months

> my testicles should go back to their old selfs. He said he treated

> many patients like this with success.

> I asked if I would need to use a drug such as Nolvadex or Clomid after

> these 3 months, and he answered that there is no need, since my HPTA

> axis won't be surpressed.

>

> I should be starting this treatment shortly but would like to hear

> some opinions about it!

> What do you say?

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In 2 days I will be taking the 2nd injection, so I'm reporting back as

promised.

In the same day I took the 1st injection, the symptoms lifted, and I

was able to great sex again with my girlfriend, once per day ( a

frequency which I couldn't achieve before).

Anyway, approaching the 2 weeks mark, I noticed that most (if not all)

effect of the injection was gone. I started going to gym, so I also

started 1 milkshake per day. Among other ingredients it contains 700mg

of L-Arginine, so my erections are much better again, though I felt

better in the first days after the injection.

I'm continuing with treatment as planned, but I'm wondering if I

should take Tribulus Terrestris pills in the last 2 weeks before the

next shot, so that I try to maintain the level of Testosterone a

little better (cause I think the point of this treatment is to keep

the levels up for about 3 months, which is not being achieved).

Do I think it's a good idea to do that?

I also read about someone who had a Testosterone crash due to stress

(and who knows what else), and the doctor ordered a cycle of 250mg/wk

of Sustanon injections for 8 weeks followed by HCG and clomid, in

order to reset the system. And that he got much better after this.

Any opinions on this too?

[Guest guest]

Weekly injections are much better. The half life of testosterone esters

can be 10-25 days or so depending on the product. Injections every 2

weeks allows the blood levels to drop a lot while weekly injections has

a lot less of a drop in blood levels before the next injection. Also,

injections every two weeks can products highs that result in some

testosterone converting to estradiol, something you want to avoid.

Steve

ttwenties wrote:

> In 2 days I will be taking the 2nd injection, so I'm reporting back as

> promised.

>

> In the same day I took the 1st injection, the symptoms lifted, and I

> was able to great sex again with my girlfriend, once per day ( a

> frequency which I couldn't achieve before).

>

> Anyway, approaching the 2 weeks mark, I noticed that most (if not all)

> effect of the injection was gone. I started going to gym, so I also

> started 1 milkshake per day. Among other ingredients it contains 700mg

> of L-Arginine, so my erections are much better again, though I felt

> better in the first days after the injection.

>

> I'm continuing with treatment as planned, but I'm wondering if I

> should take Tribulus Terrestris pills in the last 2 weeks before the

> next shot, so that I try to maintain the level of Testosterone a

> little better (cause I think the point of this treatment is to keep

> the levels up for about 3 months, which is not being achieved).

> Do I think it's a good idea to do that?

>

> I also read about someone who had a Testosterone crash due to stress

> (and who knows what else), and the doctor ordered a cycle of 250mg/wk

> of Sustanon injections for 8 weeks followed by HCG and clomid, in

> order to reset the system. And that he got much better after this.

> Any opinions on this too?

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

>

> In 2 days I will be taking the 2nd injection, so I'm reporting back as

> promised.

>

> In the same day I took the 1st injection, the symptoms lifted, and I

> was able to great sex again with my girlfriend, once per day ( a

> frequency which I couldn't achieve before).

>

> Anyway, approaching the 2 weeks mark, I noticed that most (if not all)

> effect of the injection was gone. I started going to gym, so I also

> started 1 milkshake per day. Among other ingredients it contains 700mg

> of L-Arginine, so my erections are much better again, though I felt

> better in the first days after the injection.

weekly injections are MUCH better because you get less of a " roller

coaster " effect... there's still an up and down (I do my shot on

thursday specifically to take advantage of that since we've got more

free time fri/sat/sun)

even with a blend like sustanon with it's longer acting deconate(sp?)

you'll benefit from smaller weekly shots.

[Guest guest]

Good advice. Weekly shots mean smaller highs which means less

conversion to E2. And it means smaller troughs at the end. A more even

ride.

Your half life numbers are off however.

Here's my half life research results from some time back:

Arimdex - 50 hours

Testosterone Enanthate usually has a half-life of about 7-9 days.

This results in a good total testosterone level (e.g. 700-900) at a

dose of 100 mg a week. The half-life varies though depending on the

person's ability to metabolize testosterone enanthate and

testosterone.

In some men, the half-life of Testosterone Enanthate is much shorter.

For example, in some men, the half-life is around 4 days. To achieve

a total testosterone of around 800, such a person would need about

200 mg a week.

LH has a half-

life of only about 30 minutes. When you combine this fact with the

absolute pulsatile nature of its pituitary release, care must be

taken to not place too much weight upon a single draw. A luxury

would be to acquire serial draws, say, twenty minutes apart.

However, such would be both inconvenient and probably prohibitively

expensive for the patient. The most important reason to assay the

gonadotrophins is to differentiate between primary and secondary

(hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism.

FSH

The eight hour half-life of this hormone makes it a better marker

for gonadotrophin production. It is also less an acute phase

reactant to varying serum androgen and estrogen levels than LH.

Greatly elevated FSH levels could signal a gonadotrophin- secreting

pituitary tumor.

E2

In women half life of E2 is in minutes:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=9\

\

473164 & dopt=Abstract

They gave a patch to post menopausal women and then measured E2

dissipation: " Thirteen hours after transdermal E2 placement, steady

state levels

had been reached, with a mean E2 of 112 +/- 6 pg/ml. The mean

half-life of E2 after removal of transdermal E2 was 161 min (range

107-221 min). "

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowPDF & ProduktNr=22384\

5 & Ausgabe=225038 & ArtikelNr=9923

T

Natural T has a half life of 10 to 100 minutes.

" There are considerable variations of the half-life of testosterone

as reported in the literature, ranging from 10 to 100 minutes. "

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/methyltes_cp.htm

Steroid half lifes:

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-steroid-half-life.asp

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 18:01:11 -0700, you wrote:

>Weekly injections are much better. The half life of testosterone esters

>can be 10-25 days or so depending on the product. Injections every 2

>weeks allows the blood levels to drop a lot while weekly injections has

>a lot less of a drop in blood levels before the next injection. Also,

>injections every two weeks can products highs that result in some

>testosterone converting to estradiol, something you want to avoid.

>

>Steve

[Guest guest]

When I wrote " testosterone esters " I was trying to be somewhat " generic "

since I didn't know which particular testosterone ester was being used.

Testosterone Enanthate is just one. I use Testosterone-Cypionate

which has an " active " half life of 12-14 days. Others have different

half lives and there are some " mixes " of various esters.

With testosterone cypionate being injected weekly (and HCG injected the

two days before), I get a blood T cycle that only moves up and down a

few percentages. If I used a form of T with a shorter half life, I

would have larger ups and downs more more estradiol conversion.

Steve

retrogrouch@... wrote:

> Good advice. Weekly shots mean smaller highs which means less

> conversion to E2. And it means smaller troughs at the end. A more even

> ride.

>

> Your half life numbers are off however.

>

> Here's my half life research results from some time back:

>

> Arimdex - 50 hours

>

> Testosterone Enanthate usually has a half-life of about 7-9 days.

> This results in a good total testosterone level (e.g. 700-900) at a

> dose of 100 mg a week. The half-life varies though depending on the

> person's ability to metabolize testosterone enanthate and

> testosterone.

>

> In some men, the half-life of Testosterone Enanthate is much shorter.

> For example, in some men, the half-life is around 4 days. To achieve

> a total testosterone of around 800, such a person would need about

> 200 mg a week.

>

> LH has a half-

> life of only about 30 minutes. When you combine this fact with the

> absolute pulsatile nature of its pituitary release, care must be

> taken to not place too much weight upon a single draw. A luxury

> would be to acquire serial draws, say, twenty minutes apart.

> However, such would be both inconvenient and probably prohibitively

> expensive for the patient. The most important reason to assay the

> gonadotrophins is to differentiate between primary and secondary

> (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism.

>

> FSH

>

> The eight hour half-life of this hormone makes it a better marker

> for gonadotrophin production. It is also less an acute phase

> reactant to varying serum androgen and estrogen levels than LH.

> Greatly elevated FSH levels could signal a gonadotrophin- secreting

> pituitary tumor.

>

> E2

> In women half life of E2 is in minutes:

>

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=9\

\

> 473164 & dopt=Abstract

>

> They gave a patch to post menopausal women and then measured E2

> dissipation: " Thirteen hours after transdermal E2 placement, steady

> state levels

> had been reached, with a mean E2 of 112 +/- 6 pg/ml. The mean

> half-life of E2 after removal of transdermal E2 was 161 min (range

> 107-221 min). "

>

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowPDF & ProduktNr=22384\

5 & Ausgabe=225038 & ArtikelNr=9923

>

> T

> Natural T has a half life of 10 to 100 minutes.

> " There are considerable variations of the half-life of testosterone

> as reported in the literature, ranging from 10 to 100 minutes. "

> http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/methyltes_cp.htm

>

> Steroid half lifes:

> http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-steroid-half-life.asp

>

>

>

>

> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 18:01:11 -0700, you wrote:

>

>> Weekly injections are much better. The half life of testosterone esters

>> can be 10-25 days or so depending on the product. Injections every 2

>> weeks allows the blood levels to drop a lot while weekly injections has

>> a lot less of a drop in blood levels before the next injection. Also,

>> injections every two weeks can products highs that result in some

>> testosterone converting to estradiol, something you want to avoid.

>>

>> Steve

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>