Re: Androgel question

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:16:11 -0400, you wrote:

>Is there any evidence (not just theory) that applying Androgel to the

>stomach area, or any area where there is a good source of " fat " ,

>results in the T converting to Estrogen? Thanks.

>

>Bill

No, but aromotase the enzyme that mediates the conversion is found in

fat and lipids. A transdermal application would seem to mean

absorption into that tissue .

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

[Guest guest]

No your not crazy I hear this a lot do what makes you feel best.

Phil

BBA <bba@...> wrote:

Has anyone experienced a paradoxical effect with Androgel? Maybe it's

my imagination, but it seems as if I get tired and a little sluggish

the first few hours after application. I've even switched to applying

at night after my evening shower. It seems like it relaxes me and I

sleep very, very well. The next day I have lots of energy.

When I've applied in the AM, I seem to be a little sluggish for a

couple of hours and then gain lots of energy the second half of the

day.

Is this just me, or am I crazy?

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[Guest guest]

You sound like me. Except I have to split my dose to have the desired

effect. Makes sense since I work 24's. It isn't unusual according to

my Doc. He claims hormones are as individual as the person who needs

them and should be used accordingly.

In , BBA <bba@...> wrote:

>

> Has anyone experienced a paradoxical effect with Androgel? Maybe

it's

> my imagination, but it seems as if I get tired and a little sluggish

> the first few hours after application. I've even switched to

applying

> at night after my evening shower. It seems like it relaxes me and I

> sleep very, very well. The next day I have lots of energy.

>

> When I've applied in the AM, I seem to be a little sluggish for a

> couple of hours and then gain lots of energy the second half of the

> day.

>

> Is this just me, or am I crazy?

>

[Guest guest]

I am on androgel patches at the moment till i get my appointment with

a specialist but yes they do make me feel tired/stoned/foggy what

every you may call it. I remember when i first started taking them i

could hardley consentrate for an hour or two after applying the patch.

>

> Has anyone experienced a paradoxical effect with Androgel? Maybe

it's

> my imagination, but it seems as if I get tired and a little sluggish

> the first few hours after application. I've even switched to

applying

> at night after my evening shower. It seems like it relaxes me and I

> sleep very, very well. The next day I have lots of energy.

>

> When I've applied in the AM, I seem to be a little sluggish for a

> couple of hours and then gain lots of energy the second half of the

> day.

>

> Is this just me, or am I crazy?

>

[Guest guest]

How long have you been on the patch and what was your labs on this it can be

your dose is to low. By the way Androgel is not a patch.

Phil

youngman_trust <youngman_trust@...> wrote:

I am on androgel patches at the moment till i get my appointment with

a specialist but yes they do make me feel tired/stoned/foggy what

every you may call it. I remember when i first started taking them i

could hardley consentrate for an hour or two after applying the patch.

>

> Has anyone experienced a paradoxical effect with Androgel? Maybe

it's

> my imagination, but it seems as if I get tired and a little sluggish

> the first few hours after application. I've even switched to

applying

> at night after my evening shower. It seems like it relaxes me and I

> sleep very, very well. The next day I have lots of energy.

>

> When I've applied in the AM, I seem to be a little sluggish for a

> couple of hours and then gain lots of energy the second half of the

> day.

>

> Is this just me, or am I crazy?

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:18:22 -0400, you wrote:

>How long after applying Androgel (5mg) does the T peak in your system?

>Thus, how should one " time " the blood test to determine your levels? I

>don't want to have blood drawn soon after application and have a false

>reading, but at the same time, I don't want to avoid applying for a

>day, and have a " low " one either.

>

>Also, my Uro recently told me that at the recent Endo society meeting,

>they were informed that one of the main reasons people on Androgel have

>absorption problems after a while is because the application sites

>develop skin and tissue thickening. Thus, by moving to new site, it

>rectifies the situation. Then, after about 6 months, one can move

>back. Anyone heard of this?

>

>Thanks.

>

>Bill

The paper that comes with the box on prescribing info has a chart.

[Guest guest]

This was a big problem for me when I was on gels. One time I put the gel on

first and then went in for blood work. My tests were way over the top of the

range. My Dr. told me to lower my dose and I crashed it took me 4 weeks to feel

good again. Dr. says to put on the gel keeping it off the area that they

take the blood from and do the test after 4 hrs. I tried this and still got

dam high levels so my Dr. told me all he needs to know is how low I go before

puting on the gel. He said if my levels are to low this is way we don't feel

better and on gels if your to low just before you put on the gel. This can be

why one is not doing so good he said it's not the levels going up that make us

feel bad it's the levels going to low that make use feel bad. So I started

doing my blood work first thing in the morning after a good shower then when I

got home I put on the gel.

As for the skin getting thicker yes this happened to me and some others here I

tried other spots but my skin got thicker every where. So do try this but if

you levels don't say up switch to shots. I am much happer on shots just not

going through all the crap every mornng with the gels was worth it.

Here is a link that has charts in it showing different kinds of TRT and how

high they go.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6413 & d=1139879356

BBA <bba@...> wrote:

How long after applying Androgel (5mg) does the T peak in your system?

Thus, how should one " time " the blood test to determine your levels? I

don't want to have blood drawn soon after application and have a false

reading, but at the same time, I don't want to avoid applying for a

day, and have a " low " one either.

Also, my Uro recently told me that at the recent Endo society meeting,

they were informed that one of the main reasons people on Androgel have

absorption problems after a while is because the application sites

develop skin and tissue thickening. Thus, by moving to new site, it

rectifies the situation. Then, after about 6 months, one can move

back. Anyone heard of this?

Thanks.

Bill

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I always had to do a fasting test each time so I would put the gel in my

pocket and have the blood drawn first thing in the AM usually before 7:00 on

my way to work, when I would get to work I would apply the gel. I have

changed to injections two weeks ago and actually feel much more stable/even.

I know they say the gel is supposed to supply a more even amount but in the

morning when I would put it on I would feel a rush for 1/2 the day then I

would crash slowly, my AM levels where always around 500 before application

so maybe I was going to high during the morning after applying it? Has

anyone else had this feeling.

> BBA <bba@... <bba%40adelphia.net>> wrote:

> How long after applying Androgel (5mg) does the T peak in your system?

> Thus, how should one " time " the blood test to determine your levels? I

> don't want to have blood drawn soon after application and have a false

> reading, but at the same time, I don't want to avoid applying for a

> day, and have a " low " one either.

>

> Also, my Uro recently told me that at the recent Endo society meeting,

> they were informed that one of the main reasons people on Androgel have

> absorption problems after a while is because the application sites

> develop skin and tissue thickening. Thus, by moving to new site, it

> rectifies the situation. Then, after about 6 months, one can move

> back. Anyone heard of this?

>

> Thanks.

>

> Bill

>

> Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you

> see. "

> Phil

>

> ---------------------------------

> Need Mail bonding?

> Go to the Q & A for great tips from Answers users.

>

>

[Guest guest]

This information is available both on the insert with the Androgel, as

well as at the androgel website (androgel.com)

--- BBA <bba@...> wrote:

> How long after applying Androgel (5mg) does the T peak in your

> system?

> Thus, how should one " time " the blood test to determine your levels?

> I

> don't want to have blood drawn soon after application and have a

> false

> reading, but at the same time, I don't want to avoid applying for a

> day, and have a " low " one either.

>

> Also, my Uro recently told me that at the recent Endo society

> meeting,

> they were informed that one of the main reasons people on Androgel

> have

> absorption problems after a while is because the application sites

> develop skin and tissue thickening. Thus, by moving to new site, it

> rectifies the situation. Then, after about 6 months, one can move

> back. Anyone heard of this?

>

> Thanks.

>

> Bill

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Yes Ozzmed. I used Androgel one day recently but limited it to that one day

when Pmgamer cautioned me about playing with my hormones. My experience was

exactly like yours. I had a rush of better feelings in the morning, facial

flushing, etc. But in the afternoon my rear was dragging bottom. I was so

low I went to bed in the early evening. In my situation, all the allergens

here in the deep south were affecting me too that day. But the T definitely

made a difference in the morning, but I seemed to crash big in the afternoon.

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:30:05 EDT, you wrote:

>Yes Ozzmed. I used Androgel one day recently but limited it to that one day

>when Pmgamer cautioned me about playing with my hormones. My experience was

>exactly like yours. I had a rush of better feelings in the morning, facial

>flushing, etc. But in the afternoon my rear was dragging bottom. I was so

>low I went to bed in the early evening. In my situation, all the allergens

>here in the deep south were affecting me too that day. But the T definitely

>made a difference in the morning, but I seemed to crash big in the afternoon.

It may be that the T boosted you metabolism so, that feeling good just

wore you out?

It's like doing too much on the first day of summer after a long

lethargic winter.

[Guest guest]

Gels and patches never worked for me. They did nothing. It was like BS.

BBA <bba@...> wrote: How long after applying Androgel (5mg)

does the T peak in your system?

Thus, how should one " time " the blood test to determine your levels? I

don't want to have blood drawn soon after application and have a false

reading, but at the same time, I don't want to avoid applying for a

day, and have a " low " one either.

Also, my Uro recently told me that at the recent Endo society meeting,

they were informed that one of the main reasons people on Androgel have

absorption problems after a while is because the application sites

develop skin and tissue thickening. Thus, by moving to new site, it

rectifies the situation. Then, after about 6 months, one can move

back. Anyone heard of this?

Thanks.

Bill

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I have repeated this cycle on injections too. I take monthly shots and when I

get a week and a half out, I tend to drag a bit, then I pick right back up again

as if it's casual. My face is flushed most of the time. My co-workers understand

and don't say anything anymore. They know I take hormone shots so you're not the

only one who notices. Everyone notices.

cottonfarm7@... wrote: Yes Ozzmed. I used Androgel one day recently

but limited it to that one day

when Pmgamer cautioned me about playing with my hormones. My experience was

exactly like yours. I had a rush of better feelings in the morning, facial

flushing, etc. But in the afternoon my rear was dragging bottom. I was so

low I went to bed in the early evening. In my situation, all the allergens

here in the deep south were affecting me too that day. But the T definitely

made a difference in the morning, but I seemed to crash big in the afternoon.

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

Yes but you will in most cases only make what you did before the gel. If is a

fact most me don't feel very good doing just HCG. I for one don't you might

want to stay on the Gel and add HCG Dr. has his men do 250 IU's every 3

days for men on gels or creams. You can read about this at this site

www.allthingsmale.com on the left side click on Plub. and read TRT: A Recipe for

Success and his HCG update. Also keep an eye on your Estradiol if you let this

go to high it undoes the good TRT does for you.

lightsoutluther <lightsoutluther@...> wrote:

Hi -

Is it possible to get off Androgel after only 10 days and recover

natural T production? I'd like to take a break then consider HCG, as I

am secondary.

Thanks

Luther

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Here is what can happen to some men just starting on gels. You feel better the

first week or two then fall back. What happens is your brain sees the

testosterone in your blood and stops sending the LH and FSH message to your

testis to make more. So now your left with what the gel is giving you.

Everyone that starts on gels needs to get tested in 2 weeks to see if the gel is

working. If your levels were at 300 when you started and the gel took you to

500 you feel much better but when your brain sees this and stops sending the LH

and FSH messages you can fall back lower then your start of 300 and can be left

with lower levels like 200.

Some men can't do gels it does not get there levels high enough one needs to

get there Total and Free T levels up into the upper 1/3 of there labs range. As

for Estradiol if this is high or goes high over say 40 pg/ml then this takes

away anygood the testosterone does. So test this allways and try to keep it

down between 10 to 30 best at 20 some do good at higher levels. If you test

comes back still to low on the gels they you might need to switch to shots.

Most of us that did gels found them to even later stop working and ended up

doing shots. Best to start at 100 mgs every week don't let a Dr. go longer this

old and puts you on a roller coaster ride up after the shot then back down

before the next one. Doing shots every 2, 3 or 4 weeks is very old and does not

make one feel better.

You like us if needed can do your own shots I do mine into my thigh useing a

small 29g 1ml x 1/2 " lg. needle.

" mark.lampi " <mark.lampi@...> wrote:

Have been on 10g/day for~3wks (T was ~290s - I am a first timer).

Fatigue, depression, high bodyfat - the usual 33 y/o male, also on

bromocriptine for high PrL (think that my T didn't ever bounce back

after the initial high PrL diagnosis).

Felt AMAZING for 2 wks, then seems to be back to grumpy/jumpy. Have

seen passing allusions to E2, but am not currently controlling for this.

No Rx for arim/noval yet. What are people using other than these?

Anything OTC work? Have seen zinc/copper mentioned - why/what mechanism?

Any suggestions would be appreciated...

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

[Guest guest]

If you're taking bromocriptine for a prolactinoma, tumors can be complicated.

Androgel never did me any good and they don't work for a lot of people.

Testosterone patches may not work either.

I know a man who is lucky enough to manage his T by taking bromocriptine.

I just hope you don't have both, testicular failure and a prolactinoma.

" mark.lampi " <mark.lampi@...> wrote:

Have been on 10g/day for~3wks (T was ~290s - I am a first timer).

Fatigue, depression, high bodyfat - the usual 33 y/o male, also on

bromocriptine for high PrL (think that my T didn't ever bounce back

after the initial high PrL diagnosis).

Felt AMAZING for 2 wks, then seems to be back to grumpy/jumpy. Have

seen passing allusions to E2, but am not currently controlling for this.

No Rx for arim/noval yet. What are people using other than these?

Anything OTC work? Have seen zinc/copper mentioned - why/what mechanism?

Any suggestions would be appreciated...

[Guest guest]

- no tumor (it was idiosyncratic - I've had 2 MRIs).

Haven't had new labs yet for the Androgel, but will this week so I am

interested to find out...

What I think happened is that my T never came back to where it was

before the high PrL...FSH and LH were OK after bromo, but I just have

never felt the same (barring the first 2 wks on androgel).

For others: you said that my natural T production is likely being

suppressed after ~2 wks on androgel. Is the level going to continue to

raise, or have I already found out that androgel doesn't work for me

(blood tests will tell all though).

Are there any other medications that will help? Doc mentioned

something not hormone-related but wasn't sure as he is a GP (convinced

him to try the gel - my endo is a tool).

Thanks,

Mark

> Have been on 10g/day for~3wks (T was ~290s - I am a first

timer).

> Fatigue, depression, high bodyfat - the usual 33 y/o male, also on

> bromocriptine for high PrL (think that my T didn't ever bounce back

> after the initial high PrL diagnosis).

>

> Felt AMAZING for 2 wks, then seems to be back to grumpy/jumpy. Have

> seen passing allusions to E2, but am not currently controlling for

this.

>

> No Rx for arim/noval yet. What are people using other than these?

> Anything OTC work? Have seen zinc/copper mentioned - why/what mechanism?

>

> Any suggestions would be appreciated...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When you start on any kind of testosterone meds your brain sees this in your

body and slows down the LH and FSH messages to your testis. So lets say you

were at 350 before the gel and started at 5 grams. Your brain sees this and

starts to shut down the LH and FSH messages to yout testis. So by 2 weeks you

can go up to about 500 then fall back to 200 the 350 your testis were making is

gone. So it's best to test after 2 weeks of starting gel. If your still low

then up the dose to 10 grams. Retest in 6 weeks if your still not up into the

upper 1/3 of your labs range or you don't feel better then the gel is not

getting through your skin. Then it's best to switch to shots starting at 100mgs

every week. Learn to do your own shots.

HCG helps but you need to get leveled first then if your doing gels you would

do 250 IU's of HCG every 3 days this will keep you leveled and keep your testis

making testosterone as well as they can.

I had MRI's on my Pituitary and nothing was wrong yet I am Hypopituitary my

Testosterone, Cortisol, Thyroid, Aldosterone, Ferritin and Vit-D levels are all

low normal or below normal. Just my last test my IGF-1 growth hormone come back

below normal. So now I am working on my Dr. to give me HGH.

You need to test every thing the test that showed my pituitary is not working

is all the labs in the past that are low normal. And an ACTH Stim. test.

Also just adding HCG to my T shots my levels doubled so this means my testis

work and they were dam small from being on TRT 23 yrs now they are back to there

normal size.

" mark.lampi " <mark.lampi@...> wrote:

- no tumor (it was idiosyncratic - I've had 2 MRIs).

Haven't had new labs yet for the Androgel, but will this week so I am

interested to find out...

What I think happened is that my T never came back to where it was

before the high PrL...FSH and LH were OK after bromo, but I just have

never felt the same (barring the first 2 wks on androgel).

For others: you said that my natural T production is likely being

suppressed after ~2 wks on androgel. Is the level going to continue to

raise, or have I already found out that androgel doesn't work for me

(blood tests will tell all though).

Are there any other medications that will help? Doc mentioned

something not hormone-related but wasn't sure as he is a GP (convinced

him to try the gel - my endo is a tool).

Thanks,

Mark

> Have been on 10g/day for~3wks (T was ~290s - I am a first

timer).

> Fatigue, depression, high bodyfat - the usual 33 y/o male, also on

> bromocriptine for high PrL (think that my T didn't ever bounce back

> after the initial high PrL diagnosis).

>

> Felt AMAZING for 2 wks, then seems to be back to grumpy/jumpy. Have

> seen passing allusions to E2, but am not currently controlling for

this.

>

> No Rx for arim/noval yet. What are people using other than these?

> Anything OTC work? Have seen zinc/copper mentioned - why/what mechanism?

>

> Any suggestions would be appreciated...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>