Guest guest Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 My MD also suggested monthly injections. The problem with these is that for week one your testoterone levels will soar beyond the normal zone and you will be semi crazed. Weeks 2 and maybe 3 you will be " ok " then week 4 you will dip below normal and be starved for Testosterone. This is great if you want an insite into how women and hormones function! Better would be weekly or bi weekly injections with lower amounts. Try the files area for normal Testosterone vrs age and so forth. Or google! Good luck! BTW one question. How much Androgel were you using and what was your weight to get you in that range? Just curious... > > Hi I am new to the group and have a question I hope someone can help > me with. I have gynecomastia due to high estrogen and low testerone. > My doctor has had me on Androgel for six months which broutht my > testosteron up to 487. My doctor now is switching me to Testosterone > Cypionate shots once per month. I have heard that the shots can > contribute to gynecomastia and that I may even get bigger in that > area. Is this true? I know that excess testosterone can be swiched > over to estrogen in the body. What happens if you already have too > much estrogen, do you get even more? Also what happens if your body > has too much testosterone and too much estrogen all at the same time? > Do they tend to just even out so that you are ok but just have higher > levels of each? > One last question. Can anyone tell me what the normal levels of > testosterone and estrogen are for a male and for a female. > Thank you for your help. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Hi and Welcome, First if Androgel got you up to 487 and it was the 5 gram dose then I feel going up on the dose would have been much better then doing a big shot once a month. I have not seen this in a long time no one that is up on T meds. does a shot once a month. First one would be getting a big dose like 300 to 400 mg. and this would put you on a roller coaster ride up after the shot and down for 2 to 3 weeks after. Now the bad part doing shots this way will drive up your Estradiol " E2 " and Estrogen but E2 is the bad guy here. First you need to make up your mind do you want to try more Androgel or do shots if your going to try shots you need to do them every week giving your self the shot. Starting with 100 mgs. a week. Gynecomastia is from high Estradiol " E2 " and you need this tested a test for men don't ask for a Estrogen test as for a Estradiol and a Total Estrogen test. Taking Nolvadex when you feel nipple issues helps. Here is a cut & paste on what Dr. says. " If a patient has “nipple issues”, even while estrogen is within normal range, I add a SERM, emergently. I prefer \r\n \r\nAG-Guys.com " , " style=\ " background: #FFFFCC;padding: 2px;font-size: 10px;\ " " );' onmouseout=GAL_hidepopup(); href= " http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/autolink.php?id=4 & script=showthread & forumid\ =9 " target=_blank>Nolvadex over \r\n \r\nAG-Guys.com " , " style=\ " background: #FFFFCC;padding: 2px;font-size: 10px;\ " " );' onmouseout=GAL_hidepopup(); href= " http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/autolink.php?id=3 & script=showthread & forumid\ =9 " target=_blank>Clomid, and Evista is probably best of all for antagonizing estrogen (although much more expensive). Clomid often induces untoward visual effects (i.e. “tracers”), and can cause emotional lability by virtue of its estrogen agonistic effects at the more peripheral (emotion) brain sites. I do like my patients to keep some Nolvadex on hand, should they experience nipple swelling or sensitivity, so they may begin 40mg per day until the symptoms abate, and then taper to 20 mg QD for a few days, then 10mg for a few more, then finally 5mg QD to taper off. My TRT male patients who suffer E2 elevations above the top of normal range are placed on 0.25mg of \r\n \r\nAG-Guys.com " , " style=\ " background: #FFFFCC;padding: 2px;font-size: 10px;\ " " );' onmouseout=GAL_hidepopup(); href= " http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/autolink.php?id=2 & script=showthread & forumid\ =9 " target=_blank>Arimidex every third day. If that is not enough, I use the same dose EOD. It is possible to cut the tiny 1mg tabs into quarters, but here a gel or cream preparation, compounded to convenient dosing, makes a lot of sense. A month later I recheck E2, and make further adjustment if necessary. It is important to not lower estrogen too far, which is easy to do with an AI, as doing so has disastrous effects on the Lipid Profile, bone deposition, etc. I prefer to maintain E in mid-range. " you will see that men can experience nipple issues even when estrogen is in normal range. a serm like nolvodex is used to quickly compete at the estrogen receptor(nipple) and lower sensitivity and swelling and used on a tapering dose when sensitivity go's away. an AI is used to keep E2 in check. however nolvodex is always kept on hand for nipple sensitivity flare ups. Also you need to go to his site www.allthingmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and his HCG Update. Print this and show it to your Dr. and tell him you need to try this adding HCG to your T meds to keep your testis working so they don't get small. I did this 15 months ago and now I feel the best I ever felt in the 22 yrs. that I have been on T meds. If he is not willing to do this then tell him you want him to treat you using Dr. over the phone. If he will do this Dr. will have him up to speed in no time. Also if you can't get anywhere doing this show him this from the AACE Gulidlines on page 11 it states to do shots every 7 to 10 days. http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf You have come to the right place and most of us have seen Dr.'s that were not good at treating low T. So you need to learn as much as you can so you don't get messed around like I and others did for yrs. You need your Total and Free T levels up in the upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man. and your E2 down between 10 to 30 for any age man. Read this link it is one of the first things I read when I came here 3 yrs. ago. I don't buy anything from them but still find this to be a dam good read. http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-txt/t-prtcl-130.html Phil L <pljlv@...> wrote: Hi I am new to the group and have a question I hope someone can help me with. I have gynecomastia due to high estrogen and low testerone. My doctor has had me on Androgel for six months which broutht my testosteron up to 487. My doctor now is switching me to Testosterone Cypionate shots once per month. I have heard that the shots can contribute to gynecomastia and that I may even get bigger in that area. Is this true? I know that excess testosterone can be swiched over to estrogen in the body. What happens if you already have too much estrogen, do you get even more? Also what happens if your body has too much testosterone and too much estrogen all at the same time? Do they tend to just even out so that you are ok but just have higher levels of each? One last question. Can anyone tell me what the normal levels of testosterone and estrogen are for a male and for a female. Thank you for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 165 lbs and was using the 1% 50mg. Why? Tell me more. -- In , " james186282 " <pillow@...> wrote: > > My MD also suggested monthly injections. The problem with these is > that for week one your testoterone levels will soar beyond the normal > zone and you will be semi crazed. Weeks 2 and maybe 3 you will be > " ok " then week 4 you will dip below normal and be starved for > Testosterone. This is great if you want an insite into how women and > hormones function! Better would be weekly or bi weekly injections > with lower amounts. > > Try the files area for normal Testosterone vrs age and so forth. Or > google! > > Good luck! > > BTW one question. How much Androgel were you using and what was your > weight to get you in that range? Just curious... > > > > > Hi I am new to the group and have a question I hope someone can help > > me with. I have gynecomastia due to high estrogen and low testerone. > > My doctor has had me on Androgel for six months which broutht my > > testosteron up to 487. My doctor now is switching me to Testosterone > > Cypionate shots once per month. I have heard that the shots can > > contribute to gynecomastia and that I may even get bigger in that > > area. Is this true? I know that excess testosterone can be swiched > > over to estrogen in the body. What happens if you already have too > > much estrogen, do you get even more? Also what happens if your body > > has too much testosterone and too much estrogen all at the same time? > > Do they tend to just even out so that you are ok but just have higher > > levels of each? > > One last question. Can anyone tell me what the normal levels of > > testosterone and estrogen are for a male and for a female. > > Thank you for your help. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 I think it basically comes down to if you want a quality life. I have chosen to let my testicles shrink its not a big deal for me, As long as I can function as a male I feel good about it. Now if you do stop testosterone you will probably also lose a lot of energy due to the low levels in your body. For everything we do to stay alive there are trade-offs. I basically want a quality life and am not so worried about quantity. You might not like the way you look outwardly on some parts of your body but if you have a good heart that's the most important part in your whole being. Being good to yourself and others shows you care and that will keep you sane thru any of the bad that might come your way. I think you need to learn to love yourself all over again and not be so harsh on how your body looks. I still have a skinny butt and its ok I can live with it. FRANK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 I think it basically comes down to if you want a quality life. I have chosen to let my testicles shrink its not a big deal for me, As long as I can function as a male I feel good about it. Now if you do stop testosterone you will probably also lose a lot of energy due to the low levels in your body. For everything we do to stay alive there are trade-offs. I basically want a quality life and am not so worried about quantity. You might not like the way you look outwardly on some parts of your body but if you have a good heart that's the most important part in your whole being. Being good to yourself and others shows you care and that will keep you sane thru any of the bad that might come your way. I think you need to learn to love yourself all over again and not be so harsh on how your body looks. I still have a skinny butt and its ok I can live with it. FRANK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 I think it basically comes down to if you want a quality life. I have chosen to let my testicles shrink its not a big deal for me, As long as I can function as a male I feel good about it. Now if you do stop testosterone you will probably also lose a lot of energy due to the low levels in your body. For everything we do to stay alive there are trade-offs. I basically want a quality life and am not so worried about quantity. You might not like the way you look outwardly on some parts of your body but if you have a good heart that's the most important part in your whole being. Being good to yourself and others shows you care and that will keep you sane thru any of the bad that might come your way. I think you need to learn to love yourself all over again and not be so harsh on how your body looks. I still have a skinny butt and its ok I can live with it. FRANK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 Nico Try Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at 2000 units every other day for a total of 5 injections, and then switch to 1000 units every other day. Have your free testosterone checked before starting and then at day 14 to see where you are. HCG will make your testicles grow and will also make them produce testosterone. Some docs use this product for testosterone replacement instead of gels or injections. It has the same side effects as testosterone, but sometimes I think it may increase se drive a lot more, and some people may become a little more moody. I am not sure if HCG would work long term or if your HPGA axis will get used to it and render it less and less effective with time. There is only one way to find out. This is from wikipedia " In the world of performance enhancing drugs, hCG is increasingly used in combination with various Anabolic Androgenic Steroid (AAS) cycles. When AAS are put into a male body, the body's natural negative feedback loops cause the body to shut down its own production of testosterone via shutdown of the HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis). High levels of AASs that mimic the body's natural testosterone trigger the hypothalamus to shut down its production of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. Without GnRH the pituitary gland stops releasing luteinizing hormone (LH). LH normally travels from the pituitary via the blood stream to the testes where it triggers the production and release of testosterone. Without LH, the testes shut down their production of testosterone, causing testicular atrophy ( " shrinking testicles " ). In males, hCG mimics LH and helps restore / maintain testosterone production in the testes. As such, hCG is commonly used during and after steroid cycles to maintain and restore testicular size as well as endogenous testosterone production. However, if hGC is used for too long and in too high a dose, the resulting rise in natural testosterone will eventually inhibit its own production via negative feedback on the hypothalamus and pituitary. " --- Nico son <nix2@...> wrote: > I was just about to call the Doctor when I read this > posting about the teste shrinking. I'm not sure why > I'm replying, other than I need some reassurance > that the Testosterone is worth staying on. I lost my > face a few years back and now have enough > Bio-Alcamid in it I should probably have it insured. > I've not only lost my ass, but it is deformed as > well. I don't have the financial resources available > to fix that except for some very well designed > underware by " Bottoms-up " and I just read that the > Testosterone will probably cause my hair to recede. > What next? My testes are part of my manhood, > something I'm proud of and something I've been > complimented on for years. I was blessed with good > endowment, now when I'm hard, I look like a freak, > my dick is way out of proportion with my balls - > this is totally affecting my sex life with my > partner of 11+ years, to the point that I make up > any excuse not to have sex. I've now morphed into > something I can't stand, and don't know > whether I should continue the Testosterone. HELP, > any advice or reassurance would be appreciated. > > Nico > POZ 21 yrs > > TucChico@... wrote: > I have been on Testosterone Cypionate for over > 12 years. I also lost all my sex drive. The only > real side effect if you can call it that is your > testicles will now shrink mine are probably the size > of a 12-14 year old boy they really shrink but its > not a biggie. I have an active sex life and my > energy level is fine. > FRANK > > Regards, Vergel powerusa dot org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 Nico Try Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at 2000 units every other day for a total of 5 injections, and then switch to 1000 units every other day. Have your free testosterone checked before starting and then at day 14 to see where you are. HCG will make your testicles grow and will also make them produce testosterone. Some docs use this product for testosterone replacement instead of gels or injections. It has the same side effects as testosterone, but sometimes I think it may increase se drive a lot more, and some people may become a little more moody. I am not sure if HCG would work long term or if your HPGA axis will get used to it and render it less and less effective with time. There is only one way to find out. This is from wikipedia " In the world of performance enhancing drugs, hCG is increasingly used in combination with various Anabolic Androgenic Steroid (AAS) cycles. When AAS are put into a male body, the body's natural negative feedback loops cause the body to shut down its own production of testosterone via shutdown of the HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis). High levels of AASs that mimic the body's natural testosterone trigger the hypothalamus to shut down its production of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. Without GnRH the pituitary gland stops releasing luteinizing hormone (LH). LH normally travels from the pituitary via the blood stream to the testes where it triggers the production and release of testosterone. Without LH, the testes shut down their production of testosterone, causing testicular atrophy ( " shrinking testicles " ). In males, hCG mimics LH and helps restore / maintain testosterone production in the testes. As such, hCG is commonly used during and after steroid cycles to maintain and restore testicular size as well as endogenous testosterone production. However, if hGC is used for too long and in too high a dose, the resulting rise in natural testosterone will eventually inhibit its own production via negative feedback on the hypothalamus and pituitary. " --- Nico son <nix2@...> wrote: > I was just about to call the Doctor when I read this > posting about the teste shrinking. I'm not sure why > I'm replying, other than I need some reassurance > that the Testosterone is worth staying on. I lost my > face a few years back and now have enough > Bio-Alcamid in it I should probably have it insured. > I've not only lost my ass, but it is deformed as > well. I don't have the financial resources available > to fix that except for some very well designed > underware by " Bottoms-up " and I just read that the > Testosterone will probably cause my hair to recede. > What next? My testes are part of my manhood, > something I'm proud of and something I've been > complimented on for years. I was blessed with good > endowment, now when I'm hard, I look like a freak, > my dick is way out of proportion with my balls - > this is totally affecting my sex life with my > partner of 11+ years, to the point that I make up > any excuse not to have sex. I've now morphed into > something I can't stand, and don't know > whether I should continue the Testosterone. HELP, > any advice or reassurance would be appreciated. > > Nico > POZ 21 yrs > > TucChico@... wrote: > I have been on Testosterone Cypionate for over > 12 years. I also lost all my sex drive. The only > real side effect if you can call it that is your > testicles will now shrink mine are probably the size > of a 12-14 year old boy they really shrink but its > not a biggie. I have an active sex life and my > energy level is fine. > FRANK > > Regards, Vergel powerusa dot org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 Nico Try Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at 2000 units every other day for a total of 5 injections, and then switch to 1000 units every other day. Have your free testosterone checked before starting and then at day 14 to see where you are. HCG will make your testicles grow and will also make them produce testosterone. Some docs use this product for testosterone replacement instead of gels or injections. It has the same side effects as testosterone, but sometimes I think it may increase se drive a lot more, and some people may become a little more moody. I am not sure if HCG would work long term or if your HPGA axis will get used to it and render it less and less effective with time. There is only one way to find out. This is from wikipedia " In the world of performance enhancing drugs, hCG is increasingly used in combination with various Anabolic Androgenic Steroid (AAS) cycles. When AAS are put into a male body, the body's natural negative feedback loops cause the body to shut down its own production of testosterone via shutdown of the HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis). High levels of AASs that mimic the body's natural testosterone trigger the hypothalamus to shut down its production of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. Without GnRH the pituitary gland stops releasing luteinizing hormone (LH). LH normally travels from the pituitary via the blood stream to the testes where it triggers the production and release of testosterone. Without LH, the testes shut down their production of testosterone, causing testicular atrophy ( " shrinking testicles " ). In males, hCG mimics LH and helps restore / maintain testosterone production in the testes. As such, hCG is commonly used during and after steroid cycles to maintain and restore testicular size as well as endogenous testosterone production. However, if hGC is used for too long and in too high a dose, the resulting rise in natural testosterone will eventually inhibit its own production via negative feedback on the hypothalamus and pituitary. " --- Nico son <nix2@...> wrote: > I was just about to call the Doctor when I read this > posting about the teste shrinking. I'm not sure why > I'm replying, other than I need some reassurance > that the Testosterone is worth staying on. I lost my > face a few years back and now have enough > Bio-Alcamid in it I should probably have it insured. > I've not only lost my ass, but it is deformed as > well. I don't have the financial resources available > to fix that except for some very well designed > underware by " Bottoms-up " and I just read that the > Testosterone will probably cause my hair to recede. > What next? My testes are part of my manhood, > something I'm proud of and something I've been > complimented on for years. I was blessed with good > endowment, now when I'm hard, I look like a freak, > my dick is way out of proportion with my balls - > this is totally affecting my sex life with my > partner of 11+ years, to the point that I make up > any excuse not to have sex. I've now morphed into > something I can't stand, and don't know > whether I should continue the Testosterone. HELP, > any advice or reassurance would be appreciated. > > Nico > POZ 21 yrs > > TucChico@... wrote: > I have been on Testosterone Cypionate for over > 12 years. I also lost all my sex drive. The only > real side effect if you can call it that is your > testicles will now shrink mine are probably the size > of a 12-14 year old boy they really shrink but its > not a biggie. I have an active sex life and my > energy level is fine. > FRANK > > Regards, Vergel powerusa dot org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I have been on HCG/arimidex for several years, stopped working well.... a month ago, I went to Test Cypionate-half CC weekly IM. Roughly after injection during the forty eight hours/2 days to ninety six hours/4 days, all is great. Before and after, pretty much nothing. Testical size is not critical, but good. What regiment? more T, or use HCG supplementation, could I best use to improve days, 1-2-5-6-7, to somewhat equal days 3 and 4? Thanks for any opinions!!! kind regards david a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 You could try around 250IU of hCG on days 5 & 6 to keep your test levels a little higher before the next dose. Testosterone Cypionate I have been on HCG/arimidex for several years, stopped working well.... a month ago, I went to Test Cypionate-half CC weekly IM. Roughly after injection during the forty eight hours/2 days to ninety six hours/4 days, all is great. Before and after, pretty much nothing. Testical size is not critical, but good. What regiment? more T, or use HCG supplementation, could I best use to improve days, 1-2-5-6-7, to somewhat equal days 3 and 4? Thanks for any opinions!!! kind regards david a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 It depends are how you mixed the hCG. If it is 10000IU and you used 10ml of BAC water, then 1ml=1000IU. 250IU=0.25ml. Testosterone Cypionate > > > I have been on HCG/arimidex for several years, stopped working well.... > a month ago, I went to Test Cypionate-half CC weekly IM. > Roughly after injection during the forty eight hours/2 days to ninety six hours/4 days, all is great. Before and after, pretty much nothing. > Testical size is not critical, but good. > What regiment? more T, or use HCG supplementation, could I best use to improve days, 1-2-5-6-7, to somewhat equal days 3 and 4? > Thanks for any opinions!!! > kind regards david a > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Hey - sounds like you were secondary but now moving towards primary (Testes won't produce enough Y). Some of us absorb the Testosterone Cypionate faster than others. I went to shooting half the dose 2 times a week and it works better. Over about a 5-6 week period, my estradiol climbs too high and I take arimidex for a few days to get it back down. Arkansas From: appreciative dAVId <dhallgar@...> Subject: Testosterone Cypionate Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 1:40 PM I have been on HCG/arimidex for several years, stopped working well.... a month ago, I went to Test Cypionate-half CC weekly IM. Roughly after injection during the forty eight hours/2 days to ninety six hours/4 days, all is great. Before and after, pretty much nothing. Testical size is not critical, but good. What regiment? more T, or use HCG supplementation, could I best use to improve days, 1-2-5-6-7, to somewhat equal days 3 and 4? Thanks for any opinions!!! kind regards david a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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