Re: Arimidex Dosing or Progesterone to Lower E2

[Guest guest]

With all due respect to Dr. , it seems that his comment overstates the point

somewhat. I read the post where he mentioned it, & whereas it might apply to

overdose of progesterone, it is also true that progesterone is considered a mild

androgen (probably weaker than DHEA) which in some ways opposes the activity of

estradiol (in women). It is an antagonist of breast cell proliferation, for

instance- a fact which may be important for men on TRT to note, as well.

I have to wonder if Dr. is addressing keeping progesterone levels within

the reference range. I mean, do men at the top of the reference range of

progesterone- 1.2 ng/mL (reference range 0.3 - 1.2 ng/mL) with sufficient T &

DHT- find themselves with symptoms similar to hypogonadism? I understand part

of where he's coming from- some of the steroids bodybuilders take like

nandrolone can behave like a progestin, sensitize progesterone receptors, & make

their own unique contribution to gynecomastia & perhaps ED. Among bodybuilders,

some will claim that moderate dosages of nandrolone cause, at best, minimal

suppression of the HPTA (as deduced by blood work?), prompting my question about

dosages. But our group isn't working with bodybuilder dosages of chemicals.

With that said, injections are not increasing my DHT nor total testosterone

much, though it is making my free testosterone go pretty high. Mention of

progesterone inhibiting reduction of T to DHT caught my attention, & thus it

would probably not be a good consideration for me in light of my low DHT.

~Xian

> > >

> > >>

> > >> I find this topic coming up a lot and need to warn

> > men not to add Progesterone to there body.

> > >> Here is what Dr. says about doing this.

> > (Funny, when you take PREG, your PROG may rise, but it

> > doesn't cause feminization. But if you give straight PROG,

> > bad things happen.) and here is more.

> > >> (But you can still reason things out, and apply

> > good 'ol Farner's Logic.

> > >>

> > >> There is not one valid study that proves men

> > should take PROG. And many which prove he should not.

> > >>

> > >> Simple, irrefutable facts:

> > >>

> > >> PROG elevates SHBG

> > >> Suppresses the HPTA

> > >> Causes gynocomastia

> > >> Causes impotence

> > >>

> > >> ...all feminizing features of a hormone.

> > >> __________________

> > >> www.AllThingsMale.com

> > >>

> > >> Any information I may provide does not substitute

> > for a proper medical evaluation by a medical professional;

> > nor does it constitute doctor/patient relationship, or

> > liability, in any way.)

> > >>

> > ==========================================================================

> > >>

> > >> Dr. treats a ton of men for all kinds of low

> > Testosterone and has been posting answers to men's posts at

> > a lot of forums.  In all the yrs I have read his

> > replies to men every one that did Progesterone ended up with

> > big problems.

> > >>

> > >> There is a lot of crap on the web about taking

> > this but not one good study shows this helps men.

> > >>

> > >> Here is what one dam good DR. says about it.

> > >>

> > ==========================================================================

> > >> Originally Posted by marianco 

> > >> To examine the possible side effects of

> > Progesterone, one has to look at Progesterone's roles.

> > >>

> > >> Progesterone is a precursor for testosterone,

> > estradiol, cortisol, aldosterone, and allopregnenolone and

> > allopregnanolone, etc.. Progesterone is broken down to

> > Pregnanediol (inactive) after it is used.

> > >>

> > >> Progesterone is the precursor for testosterone in

> > the testes. Increasing testosterone production requires

> > increasing production of progesterone, its precursor. HCG

> > can increase progesterone production in men. If the increase

> > in progesterone leads to an increase in testosterone, this

> > can have good or bad effects. Bad effects include slowing

> > down the adrenal glands when one already has adrenal

> > fatigue, excessive acne or hair loss, etc.

> > >>

> > >> Progesterone is a precursor for estradiol.

> > Progesterone also increases the number of estrogen

> > receptors. Either one can lead to signs of excessive

> > estrogen signaling (e.g. gynecomastia, aggressiveness,

> > fatigue (from lowered thyroid hormone in response to

> > increased estrogen signaling), loss of libido, etc. even if

> > Estradiol is controlled (since the signal is stronger when

> > there are more estrogen receptors).

> > >>

> > >> Progesterone is a precursor for Cortisol. In

> > women, it is a good replacement for hydrocortisone

> > (cortisol). Generally, this doesn't lead to excessive

> > Cortisol, since cortisol is made on demand.

> > >>

> > >> Progesterone is a precursor for Aldosterone. This

> > usually doesn't lead to an excess in Aldosterone since

> > Aldosterone has other controls - such as salt-balance.

> > >>

> > >> Progesterone is a precursor for Allopregnenolone

> > (both in brain and liver), and Allopregnanolone (in brain).

> > Allopregnanolone is neuroprotective. This is how

> > Progesterone can be useful in stroke - to reduce nervous

> > system damage from a stroke. Allopregnenolone increases GABA

> > receptor sensitivity to GABA. This is how Progesterone helps

> > reduce norepinephrine signaling, how Progesterone can be

> > sedating and anti-anxiety, and how Progesterone can be used

> > as an antiseizure medication. Excessive allopregnenolone can

> > cause excessive sleepiness, loss of libido (since libido

> > also depends on adequate but not excessive norepinephrine

> > signaling - which gives us sexual excitement), impaired

> > concentration, fatigue (since norepinephrine also is a

> > signal for energy on demand), etc.

> > >>

> > >> Progesterone also reduces estradiol's inhibitory

> > effect on thyroid hormone. I speculate that this may involve

> > reducing thyroid binding protein production. Thus, possibly

> > this can lead to excess thyroid signaling for those

> > sensitive to thyroid signaling - such as those with adrenal

> > fatigue.

> > >>

> > >> Progesterone also may reduce blood pressure.

> > Dizziness may result from excess.

> > >>

> > >> Progesterone is also a 5-alpha-reductase. This

> > blocks testosterone to DHT conversion. Excessive

> > progesterone may thus mean a reduction in body hair, acne,

> > etc. - among other actions of DHT.

> > >>

> > >> I suppose you mean a 24-hour Urine Steroid Hormone

> > Profile from RheinLabs.com when you say " rhein's test " .

> > >>

> > >> I suppose you mean transdermal when you wrote " TD

> > pregnenolone. "

> > >>

> > >> Taking pregnenolone before a 24-hour urine hormone

> > profile depends on whether or not you want to see the

> > effects of pregnenolone on one's hormone metabolism. You

> > would need a before an after test.

> > >>

> > >> Since Pregnenolone is a precursor for nearly all

> > of the substances tested, it can raise the level of any one

> > of the substances it is a precursor to. Depending on the

> > person, this may mean elevated testosterone and precursors

> > or elevated progesterone and Pregnanediol, elevated

> > Cortisol, or any other one or a combination of these

> > signals/hormones.

> > >>

> > >> If one has ongoing treatment with Pregnenolone,

> > then it would be useful to monitor its effects on hormone

> > production by taking it while undergoing the hormone profile

> > test. For example, I would want to know if Pregnenolone is

> > converting excessively to Estradiol, resulting in

> > destabilization of mood in some patients or impaired muscle

> > mass gain in others.

> > >>

> > >> Cheers.

> > >>

> > ==========================================================================

> > >> Pregnenolone is the starting point from which all

> > steroid hormones are manufactured in our bodies. Its

> > conversion in the body follows different pathways, depending

> > on individual needs.  Dr. has his me take this in

> > a cream.

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Co-Moderator

> > >> Phil

> >

> > --

> >

> > Steve - dudescholar4@...

> >

> > " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

> > run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

> >

> > " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American

> > Patriotism "

> >

> > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I am not a Dr. so I don't argue with them even when it's needed some times you

seam to be much better informed about a lot of things we talk about here. Dr.

feels if you are low on Pro. the use Pre. and let it convert into what your

body needs. I test Pro. to make sure my using HCG does not drive it up to high.

I would say this is the best way to get low Pro. levels up. But all this crap

on the web about using Pro. cream on men after what I went through and a lot of

the men I have talked to in the past 10 yrs is nuts.

We are lucky to have you posting hear your great at this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...>

> Subject: Re: Arimidex Dosing or Progesterone to Lower E2

>

> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 2:22 AM

> With all due respect to Dr. , it

> seems that his comment overstates the point somewhat. 

> I read the post where he mentioned it, & whereas it

> might apply to overdose of progesterone, it is also true

> that progesterone is considered a mild androgen (probably

> weaker than DHEA) which in some ways opposes the activity of

> estradiol (in women).  It is an antagonist of breast

> cell proliferation, for instance- a fact which may be

> important for men on TRT to note, as well.

>

> I have to wonder if Dr. is addressing keeping

> progesterone levels within the reference range.  I

> mean, do men at the top of the reference range of

> progesterone- 1.2 ng/mL (reference range 0.3 - 1.2 ng/mL)

> with sufficient T & DHT- find themselves with symptoms

> similar to hypogonadism?  I understand part of where

> he's coming from- some of the steroids bodybuilders take

> like nandrolone can behave like a progestin, sensitize

> progesterone receptors, & make their own unique

> contribution to gynecomastia & perhaps ED.  Among

> bodybuilders, some will claim that moderate dosages of

> nandrolone cause, at best, minimal suppression of the HPTA

> (as deduced by blood work?), prompting my question about

> dosages.  But our group isn't working with bodybuilder

> dosages of chemicals.

>

> With that said, injections are not increasing my DHT nor

> total testosterone much, though it is making my free

> testosterone go pretty high.  Mention of progesterone

> inhibiting reduction of T to DHT caught my attention, &

> thus it would probably not be a good consideration for me in

> light of my low DHT.

>

> ~Xian

>

> > > >

> > > >>

> > > >> I find this topic coming up a lot and

> need to warn

> > > men not to add Progesterone to there body.

> > > >> Here is what Dr. says about doing

> this.

> > > (Funny, when you take PREG, your PROG may rise,

> but it

> > > doesn't cause feminization. But if you give

> straight PROG,

> > > bad things happen.) and here is more.

> > > >> (But you can still reason things out,

> and apply

> > > good 'ol Farner's Logic.

> > > >>

> > > >> There is not one valid study that proves

> men

> > > should take PROG. And many which prove he should

> not.

> > > >>

> > > >> Simple, irrefutable facts:

> > > >>

> > > >> PROG elevates SHBG

> > > >> Suppresses the HPTA

> > > >> Causes gynocomastia

> > > >> Causes impotence

> > > >>

> > > >> ...all feminizing features of a hormone.

>

> > > >> __________________

> > > >> www.AllThingsMale.com

> > > >>

> > > >> Any information I may provide does not

> substitute

> > > for a proper medical evaluation by a medical

> professional;

> > > nor does it constitute doctor/patient

> relationship, or

> > > liability, in any way.)

> > > >>

> > >

> ==========================================================================

> > > >>

> > > >> Dr. treats a ton of men for all

> kinds of low

> > > Testosterone and has been posting answers to

> men's posts at

> > > a lot of forums.  In all the yrs I have read

> his

> > > replies to men every one that did Progesterone

> ended up with

> > > big problems.

> > > >>

> > > >> There is a lot of crap on the web about

> taking

> > > this but not one good study shows this helps

> men.

> > > >>

> > > >> Here is what one dam good DR. says about

> it.

> > > >>

> > >

> ==========================================================================

> > > >> Originally Posted by marianco 

> > > >> To examine the possible side effects of

> > > Progesterone, one has to look at Progesterone's

> roles.

> > > >>

> > > >> Progesterone is a precursor for

> testosterone,

> > > estradiol, cortisol, aldosterone, and

> allopregnenolone and

> > > allopregnanolone, etc.. Progesterone is broken

> down to

> > > Pregnanediol (inactive) after it is used.

> > > >>

> > > >> Progesterone is the precursor for

> testosterone in

> > > the testes. Increasing testosterone production

> requires

> > > increasing production of progesterone, its

> precursor. HCG

> > > can increase progesterone production in men. If

> the increase

> > > in progesterone leads to an increase in

> testosterone, this

> > > can have good or bad effects. Bad effects include

> slowing

> > > down the adrenal glands when one already has

> adrenal

> > > fatigue, excessive acne or hair loss, etc.

> > > >>

> > > >> Progesterone is a precursor for

> estradiol.

> > > Progesterone also increases the number of

> estrogen

> > > receptors. Either one can lead to signs of

> excessive

> > > estrogen signaling (e.g. gynecomastia,

> aggressiveness,

> > > fatigue (from lowered thyroid hormone in response

> to

> > > increased estrogen signaling), loss of libido,

> etc. even if

> > > Estradiol is controlled (since the signal is

> stronger when

> > > there are more estrogen receptors).

> > > >>

> > > >> Progesterone is a precursor for

> Cortisol. In

> > > women, it is a good replacement for

> hydrocortisone

> > > (cortisol). Generally, this doesn't lead to

> excessive

> > > Cortisol, since cortisol is made on demand.

> > > >>

> > > >> Progesterone is a precursor for

> Aldosterone. This

> > > usually doesn't lead to an excess in Aldosterone

> since

> > > Aldosterone has other controls - such as

> salt-balance.

> > > >>

> > > >> Progesterone is a precursor for

> Allopregnenolone

> > > (both in brain and liver), and Allopregnanolone

> (in brain).

> > > Allopregnanolone is neuroprotective. This is how

> > > Progesterone can be useful in stroke - to reduce

> nervous

> > > system damage from a stroke. Allopregnenolone

> increases GABA

> > > receptor sensitivity to GABA. This is how

> Progesterone helps

> > > reduce norepinephrine signaling, how Progesterone

> can be

> > > sedating and anti-anxiety, and how Progesterone

> can be used

> > > as an antiseizure medication. Excessive

> allopregnenolone can

> > > cause excessive sleepiness, loss of libido (since

> libido

> > > also depends on adequate but not excessive

> norepinephrine

> > > signaling - which gives us sexual excitement),

> impaired

> > > concentration, fatigue (since norepinephrine also

> is a

> > > signal for energy on demand), etc.

> > > >>

> > > >> Progesterone also reduces estradiol's

> inhibitory

> > > effect on thyroid hormone. I speculate that this

> may involve

> > > reducing thyroid binding protein production.

> Thus, possibly

> > > this can lead to excess thyroid signaling for

> those

> > > sensitive to thyroid signaling - such as those

> with adrenal

> > > fatigue.

> > > >>

> > > >> Progesterone also may reduce blood

> pressure.

> > > Dizziness may result from excess.

> > > >>

> > > >> Progesterone is also a

> 5-alpha-reductase. This

> > > blocks testosterone to DHT conversion. Excessive

> > > progesterone may thus mean a reduction in body

> hair, acne,

> > > etc. - among other actions of DHT.

> > > >>

> > > >> I suppose you mean a 24-hour Urine

> Steroid Hormone

> > > Profile from RheinLabs.com when you say " rhein's

> test " .

> > > >>

> > > >> I suppose you mean transdermal when you

> wrote " TD

> > > pregnenolone. "

> > > >>

> > > >> Taking pregnenolone before a 24-hour

> urine hormone

> > > profile depends on whether or not you want to see

> the

> > > effects of pregnenolone on one's hormone

> metabolism. You

> > > would need a before an after test.

> > > >>

> > > >> Since Pregnenolone is a precursor for

> nearly all

> > > of the substances tested, it can raise the level

> of any one

> > > of the substances it is a precursor to. Depending

> on the

> > > person, this may mean elevated testosterone and

> precursors

> > > or elevated progesterone and Pregnanediol,

> elevated

> > > Cortisol, or any other one or a combination of

> these

> > > signals/hormones.

> > > >>

> > > >> If one has ongoing treatment with

> Pregnenolone,

> > > then it would be useful to monitor its effects on

> hormone

> > > production by taking it while undergoing the

> hormone profile

> > > test. For example, I would want to know if

> Pregnenolone is

> > > converting excessively to Estradiol, resulting

> in

> > > destabilization of mood in some patients or

> impaired muscle

> > > mass gain in others.

> > > >>

> > > >> Cheers.

> > > >>

> > >

> ==========================================================================

> > > >> Pregnenolone is the starting point from

> which all

> > > steroid hormones are manufactured in our bodies.

> Its

> > > conversion in the body follows different

> pathways, depending

> > > on individual needs.  Dr. has his me take

> this in

> > > a cream.

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> Co-Moderator

> > > >> Phil

> > >

> > > --

> > >

> > > Steve - dudescholar4@...

> > >

> > > " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually

> you

> > > run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret

> Thatcher

> > >

> > > " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of

> American

> > > Patriotism "

> > >

> > > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> > > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >