New - anyone have a very high drive wife and you are now on Testosterone shots?

[Guest guest]

After 22 years of marriage and my begging (literally), hubby consented

to get his hormones checked. At age 23 when we were dating, he

informed me we would not be having sex every day, so deal with it. I

had already fallen in love with him and honestly thought it was a

temporary illness or something. I did not know there was such a thing

as a guy not wanting sex every day! lol Stupid, I know. We did not

consummate the honeymoon (but were already sexually active otherwise)

and came home early, where he built furniture with the rest of his

time off!! lol Once a day would have been my minimum to make me

happy at that time. lol We only dated 7 months, so I wrote off his

lower drive to stress of engagement, an ulcer he had, new job, etc.

We had 2 children early on (he was 25 and 29) and then had 3

miscarriages. He had a vasectomy (1997 -his idea) to prevent more

miscarriages, had a complication of a sperm granuloma (very painful)

and then had the vas reversed (1998). This never resulted in

functional sperm - they chased their tails and went in circles. He

had bilateral varioceles at this time and no one knows how long he had

had them.

In 2001 during infertility workups, his total T was 266 on a scale of

280-850). Docs did not treat him with TRT as we were trying to

conceive. When that was unsuccessful (had to do ICSI - intracellular

sperm injection - due to his sperm issues), any attempts to get him to

go back to get treated were met with him insisting he was in the

normal ranges, so I could back off. (Testy subject, as you can tell).

I also have fertility issues, so since 1998 we have had unprotected

sex - no worry about conceiving. That has been nice.

His drive has continued to plummet and he never had that " wow " factor.

2 to 3 times a week was PLENTY for him, but it was more like once a

week. Increasingly, he has to really concentrate to enjoy.

Fortunately, no ED. But he had about a 1 week refractory period,

which was really stressing our marriage. (My drive had it's ups and

downs, but 1 time a week was NOT working for me. I am 42.)

He has very little muscle tone, gaining weight in his tummy,

exhausted, comes home from work and just watches tv all night, often

falling asleep. Cranky, moody, not so much fun. Our boys are almost

grown and I was looking forward to our child-free years, but he was

acting like he was ready for a retirement home. I was worried for

him. But if you asked him, he would tell you his life is perfect, his

wife is perfect, his sex life is perfect. UGH!

Went to see a urologist for the first time 3 weeks ago. Probably

because of the 2001 results, doctor diagnosed him with hypogonadism

and gave him a 400mg shot testosterone before leaving that day. Blood

was drawn and results are: at age 46, his total T was 187 on a scale

of 350 - 1050). Don't know if doc tested anything else - will find out

next week.

Within days of that shot, I was in absolute Heaven. I HONESTLY

thought I was having an affair. We were out of town staying in a

hotel (with the boys with family) and we had a sex fest. OMG. It was

totally amazing. NEVER have we had intimacy like that. He was an

animal. I was literally crying - a dream come true for me. I cry

when I think about it!! I am a Stay at home mom and the plans I have

for us at lunch during the week, at night, on weekends..........oh my

goodness!!! I plan to not be able to walk!!!

Outside of intimacy, he was so happy, so perky, not tired, well-rested

in the morning, a bundle of energy.........simply amazing. I read

online that that is one heck of a huge shot and that biweekly or

weekly shots would be much better, but that was what we had at that

time. He was thanking me for having him get tested - he felt wonderful.

This week, he is back to being cranky, tired, very low drive. Sad

wife!! He goes next Tuesday for the follow-up to discuss those

results, at which time we will ask if we can do shots at home each

week. If not, definitely will go every 2 weeks. Doc definitely

prefers the shots, which from what I'm reading here, is a good thing!

(I'm been reading for days, going back over all posts.)

But my question is this: I had to effectively kill my sex drive to

survive in this marriage. He is a wonderful man otherwise, loving,

caring, my very best friend. Many feminine qualities, attached at my

hip, I am his life. Just never needed much sex. We always joked that

I was the guy in our relationship. He called me a freak of nature

many times. He was TRULY convinced he was 100% normal, since he was

having all the sex HE wanted. 22 years of my begging, crying.....got

me nowhere. Except a mad husband. Even after the 2001 results. He

has told me he was afraid of the treatment and since he had enough

sex, he wasn't changing anything.

We would literally work up plans where I would call him during the day

to remind him to think about sex so he might want it that night. HIS

idea!! He said he just had a really hard time remembering to think

about it. Or if he went out of town, he asked me to call and remind

him to masturbate so we wouldn't lose any ground. (and he swore

nothing was wrong!)

We almost divorced over this, I was tormented, it was really bad. I

could not get him to understand that I wanted to be groped, I wanted

to be thrown on the bed and desired. But I loved him so much in all

other ways. His father and brother also very obviously have low T and

father was just diagnosed with osteoporosis.

Now that there is hope on the horizon and I just had that amazingly

fantastic sexual experience 2 weeks ago with him, I am allowing my

drive to wake back up. With it are unexpected emotions......lots of

crying, sadness, anger, questions, mostly " Why why why didn't you

listen to me??? Why wasn't I " enough " that you would go and check

for ME? Why did it only matter HIS experience?

This is not going over so well with him, as you can imagine. Of

course, he is mortified he let me down but still on the other side

doesn't seem to get it. I'm sure after a few more months of

Testosterone treatment when he truly realizes how intercourse was

supposed to feel all these years..... I truly do not think he ever had

a " regular " drive, even in high school. Will be interesting to see if

he has primary or secondary. (He had an MRI in 2003 for thyroid

issues and he did not have any pituitary tumors. He is hypothyroid

and has been on Armour Thyroid for over 10 years.) In 2001, his FSH

was on the high end of the range, but don't know if that means it was

" high " .

I was just wondering if anyone has gone through this with a high drive

wife who has a long history of sexual

frustration/rejection/disappointment to get over. Do you have any

advice for me?? I thought I would just get on the bandwagon, be one

happy gal, and move forward. But instead, these awful feelings have

surfaced, feelings I never really dealt with and as a result, here

they are again. He is fine to go back to the piddly sex life we had

if TRT is going to upset me. ACK!!! How could he say that?? I think

I will be fine.....it's only be a week.... I will die if he quits the

shots. OMG.

Just wondering if anyone understands.......has any advice......how did

your wives handle it?????? I do not want to sabotage this and I'm

working really hard to " turn the page " but these emotions...I want

them gone. Should we get some therapy even though it will dredge up

all of that that made him so mad? Would that help or hurt? I have a

VERY high drive and I think he didn't know what to do with me 2 weeks

ago. I'm sure the hotel neighbors were like " What is going on in

there! lol " It was a total dream come true - a mix of the wonderful

man he is and the animal in bed I've fantasized about. We have such a

good marriage otherwise. I don't want to do anything to hurt that.

Thanks so much,

C.

[Guest guest]

> In 2001 during infertility workups, his total T was 266 on a scale >

of 280-850).

266 is NOT in range.

> He has very little muscle tone, gaining weight in his tummy,

> exhausted, comes home from work and just watches tv all night, often

> falling asleep. Cranky, moody, not so much fun.

classic low test symptoms

> online that that is one heck of a huge shot and that biweekly or

> weekly shots would be much better, but that was what we had at that

> time. He was thanking me for having him get tested - he felt

> wonderful.

>

> This week, he is back to being cranky, tired, very low drive.

weekly self administered shots are the way to go.

his test levels will be a roller coaster otherwise.

> This is not going over so well with him, as you can imagine. Of

> course, he is mortified he let me down but still on the other side

> doesn't seem to get it. I'm sure after a few more months of

> Testosterone treatment when he truly realizes how intercourse was

> supposed to feel all these years.....

after a few weeks/months he'll get his test/e2 levels worked out and

he'll find a new life...

I like my test levels HIGH and my e2 LOW... but then I'm a sex maniac!

> I thought I would just get on the bandwagon, be one

> happy gal, and move forward.

with weekly shots he'll be " stable " and won't CRASH like he did with

the huge blast and then a month's wait.

> how did your wives handle it??????

my wife LOVES IT.

it's our second marriages so we have something to compare it to.

but like she says I'm not " one and done " :-}

I want to give her another and another and another....

I plan my shot day for our weekends (your test level will peak ~48-72

hours after your shot) and add a dab of cialis on friday night for

friday/saturday/sunday " extra added endurance " (and a 10 minute max

refractory period)...

go for weekly self administered shots (typically 1/2cc of cypionate

using a 25g/1 " needle)... most shoot into the thigh, it's just easier

than the glutes (butt).

he'll probably need something to control e2 (estradiol, a form of

estrogen formed by conversion of testosterone)... most commonly

arimidex these days... but doses on that vary widely... I do 1/4mg eod

but some here do a similar dose WEEKLY.

my regimen these days is 175mg of a slow testosterone mix (this is a

big dose but still only 1/2cc... probably why I need more arimidex),

250IU of HCG on days 5 and 6 (just before " the shot " ), and the 1/4mg

of arimidex oed... I'm putting on SOME muscle, loosing fat, have

energy, and my wife is Very Happy ;-}

[Guest guest]

Sounds like he is going in the right direction. For me it really perked me up at

first then I kind of slowed down. I had to get some other hormones under control

like E2.

My wife and I are exactly opposite. I could do it twice a day and my wife is

ready about once a month. Her hormones are really a mess(even compared to mine)

but she doesn't seem to believe me. We don't have any money for more doctors and

Rx anyway. Maybe someday she will get a good job and be able to afford my

doctor.

Good luck!

________________________________

From: acrh4 <acrh4@...>

Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:36:31 PM

Subject: New - anyone have a very high drive wife and you are now

on Testosterone shots?

After 22 years of marriage and my begging (literally), hubby consented

to get his hormones checked. At age 23 when we were dating, he

informed me we would not be having sex every day, so deal with it. I

had already fallen in love with him and honestly thought it was a

temporary illness or something. I did not know there was such a thing

as a guy not wanting sex every day! lol Stupid, I know. We did not

consummate the honeymoon (but were already sexually active otherwise)

and came home early, where he built furniture with the rest of his

time off!! lol Once a day would have been my minimum to make me

happy at that time. lol We only dated 7 months, so I wrote off his

lower drive to stress of engagement, an ulcer he had, new job, etc.

We had 2 children early on (he was 25 and 29) and then had 3

miscarriages. He had a vasectomy (1997 -his idea) to prevent more

miscarriages, had a complication of a sperm granuloma (very painful)

and then had the vas reversed (1998). This never resulted in

functional sperm - they chased their tails and went in circles. He

had bilateral varioceles at this time and no one knows how long he had

had them.

In 2001 during infertility workups, his total T was 266 on a scale of

280-850). Docs did not treat him with TRT as we were trying to

conceive. When that was unsuccessful (had to do ICSI - intracellular

sperm injection - due to his sperm issues), any attempts to get him to

go back to get treated were met with him insisting he was in the

normal ranges, so I could back off. (Testy subject, as you can tell).

I also have fertility issues, so since 1998 we have had unprotected

sex - no worry about conceiving. That has been nice.

His drive has continued to plummet and he never had that " wow " factor.

2 to 3 times a week was PLENTY for him, but it was more like once a

week. Increasingly, he has to really concentrate to enjoy.

Fortunately, no ED. But he had about a 1 week refractory period,

which was really stressing our marriage. (My drive had it's ups and

downs, but 1 time a week was NOT working for me. I am 42.)

He has very little muscle tone, gaining weight in his tummy,

exhausted, comes home from work and just watches tv all night, often

falling asleep. Cranky, moody, not so much fun. Our boys are almost

grown and I was looking forward to our child-free years, but he was

acting like he was ready for a retirement home. I was worried for

him. But if you asked him, he would tell you his life is perfect, his

wife is perfect, his sex life is perfect. UGH!

Went to see a urologist for the first time 3 weeks ago. Probably

because of the 2001 results, doctor diagnosed him with hypogonadism

and gave him a 400mg shot testosterone before leaving that day. Blood

was drawn and results are: at age 46, his total T was 187 on a scale

of 350 - 1050). Don't know if doc tested anything else - will find out

next week.

Within days of that shot, I was in absolute Heaven. I HONESTLY

thought I was having an affair. We were out of town staying in a

hotel (with the boys with family) and we had a sex fest. OMG. It was

totally amazing. NEVER have we had intimacy like that. He was an

animal. I was literally crying - a dream come true for me. I cry

when I think about it!! I am a Stay at home mom and the plans I have

for us at lunch during the week, at night, on weekends.... ......oh my

goodness!!! I plan to not be able to walk!!!

Outside of intimacy, he was so happy, so perky, not tired, well-rested

in the morning, a bundle of energy...... ...simply amazing. I read

online that that is one heck of a huge shot and that biweekly or

weekly shots would be much better, but that was what we had at that

time. He was thanking me for having him get tested - he felt wonderful.

This week, he is back to being cranky, tired, very low drive. Sad

wife!! He goes next Tuesday for the follow-up to discuss those

results, at which time we will ask if we can do shots at home each

week. If not, definitely will go every 2 weeks. Doc definitely

prefers the shots, which from what I'm reading here, is a good thing!

(I'm been reading for days, going back over all posts.)

But my question is this: I had to effectively kill my sex drive to

survive in this marriage. He is a wonderful man otherwise, loving,

caring, my very best friend. Many feminine qualities, attached at my

hip, I am his life. Just never needed much sex. We always joked that

I was the guy in our relationship. He called me a freak of nature

many times. He was TRULY convinced he was 100% normal, since he was

having all the sex HE wanted. 22 years of my begging, crying.....got

me nowhere. Except a mad husband. Even after the 2001 results. He

has told me he was afraid of the treatment and since he had enough

sex, he wasn't changing anything.

We would literally work up plans where I would call him during the day

to remind him to think about sex so he might want it that night. HIS

idea!! He said he just had a really hard time remembering to think

about it. Or if he went out of town, he asked me to call and remind

him to masturbate so we wouldn't lose any ground. (and he swore

nothing was wrong!)

We almost divorced over this, I was tormented, it was really bad. I

could not get him to understand that I wanted to be groped, I wanted

to be thrown on the bed and desired. But I loved him so much in all

other ways. His father and brother also very obviously have low T and

father was just diagnosed with osteoporosis.

Now that there is hope on the horizon and I just had that amazingly

fantastic sexual experience 2 weeks ago with him, I am allowing my

drive to wake back up. With it are unexpected emotions.... ..lots of

crying, sadness, anger, questions, mostly " Why why why didn't you

listen to me??? Why wasn't I " enough " that you would go and check

for ME? Why did it only matter HIS experience?

This is not going over so well with him, as you can imagine. Of

course, he is mortified he let me down but still on the other side

doesn't seem to get it. I'm sure after a few more months of

Testosterone treatment when he truly realizes how intercourse was

supposed to feel all these years..... I truly do not think he ever had

a " regular " drive, even in high school. Will be interesting to see if

he has primary or secondary. (He had an MRI in 2003 for thyroid

issues and he did not have any pituitary tumors. He is hypothyroid

and has been on Armour Thyroid for over 10 years.) In 2001, his FSH

was on the high end of the range, but don't know if that means it was

" high " .

I was just wondering if anyone has gone through this with a high drive

wife who has a long history of sexual

frustration/ rejection/ disappointment to get over. Do you have any

advice for me?? I thought I would just get on the bandwagon, be one

happy gal, and move forward. But instead, these awful feelings have

surfaced, feelings I never really dealt with and as a result, here

they are again. He is fine to go back to the piddly sex life we had

if TRT is going to upset me. ACK!!! How could he say that?? I think

I will be fine.....it' s only be a week.... I will die if he quits the

shots. OMG.

Just wondering if anyone understands. ......has any advice...... how did

your wives handle it?????? I do not want to sabotage this and I'm

working really hard to " turn the page " but these emotions...I want

them gone. Should we get some therapy even though it will dredge up

all of that that made him so mad? Would that help or hurt? I have a

VERY high drive and I think he didn't know what to do with me 2 weeks

ago. I'm sure the hotel neighbors were like " What is going on in

there! lol " It was a total dream come true - a mix of the wonderful

man he is and the animal in bed I've fantasized about. We have such a

good marriage otherwise. I don't want to do anything to hurt that.

Thanks so much,

C.

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 05:36:31 -0000, you wrote:

>After 22 years of marriage and my begging (literally), hubby consented

>to get his hormones checked. At age 23 when we were dating, he

>informed me we would not be having sex every day, so deal with it. I

>had already fallen in love with him and honestly thought it was a

>temporary illness or something. I did not know there was such a thing

>as a guy not wanting sex every day! lol Stupid, I know. We did not

>consummate the honeymoon (but were already sexually active otherwise)

>and came home early, where he built furniture with the rest of his

>time off!! lol Once a day would have been my minimum to make me

>happy at that time. lol We only dated 7 months, so I wrote off his

>lower drive to stress of engagement, an ulcer he had, new job, etc.

>

>We had 2 children early on (he was 25 and 29) and then had 3

>miscarriages. He had a vasectomy (1997 -his idea) to prevent more

>miscarriages, had a complication of a sperm granuloma (very painful)

>and then had the vas reversed (1998). This never resulted in

>functional sperm - they chased their tails and went in circles. He

>had bilateral varioceles at this time and no one knows how long he had

>had them.

>

>In 2001 during infertility workups, his total T was 266 on a scale of

>280-850). Docs did not treat him with TRT as we were trying to

>conceive. When that was unsuccessful (had to do ICSI - intracellular

>sperm injection - due to his sperm issues), any attempts to get him to

>go back to get treated were met with him insisting he was in the

>normal ranges, so I could back off. (Testy subject, as you can tell).

> I also have fertility issues, so since 1998 we have had unprotected

>sex - no worry about conceiving. That has been nice.

>

>His drive has continued to plummet and he never had that " wow " factor.

>2 to 3 times a week was PLENTY for him, but it was more like once a

>week. Increasingly, he has to really concentrate to enjoy.

>Fortunately, no ED. But he had about a 1 week refractory period,

>which was really stressing our marriage. (My drive had it's ups and

>downs, but 1 time a week was NOT working for me. I am 42.)

>

>He has very little muscle tone, gaining weight in his tummy,

>exhausted, comes home from work and just watches tv all night, often

>falling asleep. Cranky, moody, not so much fun. Our boys are almost

>grown and I was looking forward to our child-free years, but he was

>acting like he was ready for a retirement home. I was worried for

>him. But if you asked him, he would tell you his life is perfect, his

>wife is perfect, his sex life is perfect. UGH!

>

>Went to see a urologist for the first time 3 weeks ago. Probably

>because of the 2001 results, doctor diagnosed him with hypogonadism

>and gave him a 400mg shot testosterone before leaving that day. Blood

>was drawn and results are: at age 46, his total T was 187 on a scale

>of 350 - 1050). Don't know if doc tested anything else - will find out

>next week.

>

>Within days of that shot, I was in absolute Heaven. I HONESTLY

>thought I was having an affair. We were out of town staying in a

>hotel (with the boys with family) and we had a sex fest. OMG. It was

>totally amazing. NEVER have we had intimacy like that. He was an

>animal. I was literally crying - a dream come true for me. I cry

>when I think about it!! I am a Stay at home mom and the plans I have

>for us at lunch during the week, at night, on weekends..........oh my

>goodness!!! I plan to not be able to walk!!!

>

>Outside of intimacy, he was so happy, so perky, not tired, well-rested

>in the morning, a bundle of energy.........simply amazing. I read

>online that that is one heck of a huge shot and that biweekly or

>weekly shots would be much better, but that was what we had at that

>time. He was thanking me for having him get tested - he felt wonderful.

>

>This week, he is back to being cranky, tired, very low drive. Sad

>wife!! He goes next Tuesday for the follow-up to discuss those

>results, at which time we will ask if we can do shots at home each

>week. If not, definitely will go every 2 weeks. Doc definitely

>prefers the shots, which from what I'm reading here, is a good thing!

> (I'm been reading for days, going back over all posts.)

>

>But my question is this: I had to effectively kill my sex drive to

>survive in this marriage. He is a wonderful man otherwise, loving,

>caring, my very best friend. Many feminine qualities, attached at my

>hip, I am his life. Just never needed much sex. We always joked that

>I was the guy in our relationship. He called me a freak of nature

>many times. He was TRULY convinced he was 100% normal, since he was

>having all the sex HE wanted. 22 years of my begging, crying.....got

>me nowhere. Except a mad husband. Even after the 2001 results. He

>has told me he was afraid of the treatment and since he had enough

>sex, he wasn't changing anything.

>

>We would literally work up plans where I would call him during the day

>to remind him to think about sex so he might want it that night. HIS

>idea!! He said he just had a really hard time remembering to think

>about it. Or if he went out of town, he asked me to call and remind

>him to masturbate so we wouldn't lose any ground. (and he swore

>nothing was wrong!)

>

>We almost divorced over this, I was tormented, it was really bad. I

>could not get him to understand that I wanted to be groped, I wanted

>to be thrown on the bed and desired. But I loved him so much in all

>other ways. His father and brother also very obviously have low T and

>father was just diagnosed with osteoporosis.

>

>Now that there is hope on the horizon and I just had that amazingly

>fantastic sexual experience 2 weeks ago with him, I am allowing my

>drive to wake back up. With it are unexpected emotions......lots of

>crying, sadness, anger, questions, mostly " Why why why didn't you

>listen to me??? Why wasn't I " enough " that you would go and check

>for ME? Why did it only matter HIS experience?

>

>This is not going over so well with him, as you can imagine. Of

>course, he is mortified he let me down but still on the other side

>doesn't seem to get it. I'm sure after a few more months of

>Testosterone treatment when he truly realizes how intercourse was

>supposed to feel all these years..... I truly do not think he ever had

>a " regular " drive, even in high school. Will be interesting to see if

>he has primary or secondary. (He had an MRI in 2003 for thyroid

>issues and he did not have any pituitary tumors. He is hypothyroid

>and has been on Armour Thyroid for over 10 years.) In 2001, his FSH

>was on the high end of the range, but don't know if that means it was

> " high " .

>

>I was just wondering if anyone has gone through this with a high drive

>wife who has a long history of sexual

>frustration/rejection/disappointment to get over. Do you have any

>advice for me?? I thought I would just get on the bandwagon, be one

>happy gal, and move forward. But instead, these awful feelings have

>surfaced, feelings I never really dealt with and as a result, here

>they are again. He is fine to go back to the piddly sex life we had

>if TRT is going to upset me. ACK!!! How could he say that?? I think

>I will be fine.....it's only be a week.... I will die if he quits the

>shots. OMG.

>

>Just wondering if anyone understands.......has any advice......how did

>your wives handle it?????? I do not want to sabotage this and I'm

>working really hard to " turn the page " but these emotions...I want

>them gone. Should we get some therapy even though it will dredge up

>all of that that made him so mad? Would that help or hurt? I have a

>VERY high drive and I think he didn't know what to do with me 2 weeks

>ago. I'm sure the hotel neighbors were like " What is going on in

>there! lol " It was a total dream come true - a mix of the wonderful

>man he is and the animal in bed I've fantasized about. We have such a

>good marriage otherwise. I don't want to do anything to hurt that.

>

>Thanks so much,

>

>C.

Hey C.

Rapid change is not easy. Forget the past. You cannot change it. What

you want to think about is your future. Living in the past or dwelling

there wastes your present. (And it is a gift and hence the word is

" present " .) (It reminds me of what the Indians say about " hate " .

Hating is like taking poison and hoping your enemy will die. "

My experience is different, but also intense. I was ill for ages and

pretty useless. I had become a couch potato as T levels fell. I had no

ambition. I lost work and didn't do much to get new work. My wife

supported us for way to long. (I'm talking years.) SHe thought I was

depressed. I said " no I'm happy. I'm content to sit on the couch or in

front of the computer all day " .

When I got T, my experience was similar. I was bouncing off the walls

with energy and ambition. I couldn't sit still. My wife doesn't have

your sex drive. (Wish she did.) When I got additional new drive I was

frustrated.

She bore a lot of anger towards me for my " laziness " . She couldn't

emotionally let go of the anger that took years to build up.

Intellectually she knew it was the illness, and not a personal failing

on my part. But emotionally she had 2 or 3 years of thinking of me as

a lazy useless son of a bitch. That doesn't go away overnight.

This was compounded by the fact that when I got healthy I felt I had

set straight everything in my life. Now it was her turn. " I'm fixed.

You're not! " I wanted everything to be perfect, and right away. It

got so bad I actually told her to get therapy or I was leaving. (Part

of this was I couldn't stand the resentment that wasn't my " fault " .)

She had the guts to say " I'll go if you go with me. "

We had some things to work out. It took some time. But now 5 years

down the line we're great and have been fro years.

I'm curious how much T they're giving your husband and how long

between shots. It looks like 400 mg every three weeks? That's stone

age medicine. He will get super high doses for the first week and fall

back to nothing in the last week. He may even go lower than he was

before. That makes for a roller coaster ride. For him - and for you.

Most of do 100mg a week or so. It tends for most to even out the highs

and lows. Two weeks is too long in my opinion.

Such large doses also increase estradiol - a form of estrogen ( " e2 " ).

Excess T is converted to E2. High E2 causes impotence, falling t

levels and it out competes T for many of the binding sites in the body

and hence steals the effect of the T.

Hubby absolutely needs a more regular dosing, and an E2 test.

Keep asking for help here. Be patient. Think of what you want in your

future, not what you wished for your past. The wake doesn't drive the

boat.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:23:57 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>My wife and I are exactly opposite. I could do it twice a day and my wife is

ready about once a month.

Ah a sexual camel. One good drink to cross the desert.

[Guest guest]

C - I want to thank you. I have had a girlfriend for 7 years and I

was considering marriage, I am not now.

A quote from your post as follows:

" But my question is this: I had to effectively kill my sex drive to

survive in this marriage. He is a wonderful man otherwise, loving,

caring, my very best friend. Many feminine qualities, attached at my

hip, I am his life. Just never needed much sex. We always joked that

I was the guy in our relationship. "

I am not sure if you do not notice it, but there is no question

presented. It sounds to me like you need counseling for if you were

observing the natural order and encouraging your man to " man up " and

lead, maybe his balls would naturally perk up.

Your long winded rant is what keeps the escort business flourishing.

All I read about is you, you, you and how " you " aren't getting bla

bla. I feel sorry for your husband, sounds to me that you have

reduced him to being the entertainment committee and the bank.

Have you ever thought you have fallen short as the loving, caring,

compassionate wife? My GF went through a year of no sex due to

menopause, I was patient, even though I was feeling rejected every

night. I bought her Suzanne Summers book " Break Out " and she is now

taking the steps to get her hormones balanced and life is better for

her. There has been times that it stressed thing and I know of few

males that would hang in there for the better part of a year.

Other than that his T loads are so extreme that his E2 can't be doing

anything other than spiking like a crack whore having a 2 week period.

There also may be other factors such as an iron overload condition

called hemochromatosis, which is the most prevalent genetic disorder

in the U.S. which will augment the problems.

My advice is to address his issues with a solid bio identical MD, Dr.

being the best or one from BodyLogicMD and some head time for you

to learn how to be the respectful and dutiful wife. Your attitude if

you were with me would have landed you in the corner for an hour of

time out an an opportunity for you to reflect.

If you want him to man up then give him his balls back. Start small,

encourage him to order for you, or to do a Tarzan cry before crashing

the sheets. It's obvious you need correction, so maybe a little spanky

spanky for you to turn him into the he man that lurks under the

surface. Calling him to remind him of his failings is not the way of

the magi. It's like telling a smoker he has to quit.

Tom U

>

> After 22 years of marriage and my begging (literally), hubby consented

> to get his hormones checked. At age 23 when we were dating, he

> informed me we would not be having sex every day, so deal with it. I

> had already fallen in love with him and honestly thought it was a

> temporary illness or something. I did not know there was such a thing

> as a guy not wanting sex every day! lol Stupid, I know. We did not

> consummate the honeymoon (but were already sexually active otherwise)

> and came home early, where he built furniture with the rest of his

> time off!! lol Once a day would have been my minimum to make me

> happy at that time. lol We only dated 7 months, so I wrote off his

> lower drive to stress of engagement, an ulcer he had, new job, etc.

>

> We had 2 children early on (he was 25 and 29) and then had 3

> miscarriages. He had a vasectomy (1997 -his idea) to prevent more

> miscarriages, had a complication of a sperm granuloma (very painful)

> and then had the vas reversed (1998). This never resulted in

> functional sperm - they chased their tails and went in circles. He

> had bilateral varioceles at this time and no one knows how long he had

> had them.

>

> In 2001 during infertility workups, his total T was 266 on a scale of

> 280-850). Docs did not treat him with TRT as we were trying to

> conceive. When that was unsuccessful (had to do ICSI - intracellular

> sperm injection - due to his sperm issues), any attempts to get him to

> go back to get treated were met with him insisting he was in the

> normal ranges, so I could back off. (Testy subject, as you can tell).

> I also have fertility issues, so since 1998 we have had unprotected

> sex - no worry about conceiving. That has been nice.

>

> His drive has continued to plummet and he never had that " wow " factor.

> 2 to 3 times a week was PLENTY for him, but it was more like once a

> week. Increasingly, he has to really concentrate to enjoy.

> Fortunately, no ED. But he had about a 1 week refractory period,

> which was really stressing our marriage. (My drive had it's ups and

> downs, but 1 time a week was NOT working for me. I am 42.)

>

> He has very little muscle tone, gaining weight in his tummy,

> exhausted, comes home from work and just watches tv all night, often

> falling asleep. Cranky, moody, not so much fun. Our boys are almost

> grown and I was looking forward to our child-free years, but he was

> acting like he was ready for a retirement home. I was worried for

> him. But if you asked him, he would tell you his life is perfect, his

> wife is perfect, his sex life is perfect. UGH!

>

> Went to see a urologist for the first time 3 weeks ago. Probably

> because of the 2001 results, doctor diagnosed him with hypogonadism

> and gave him a 400mg shot testosterone before leaving that day. Blood

> was drawn and results are: at age 46, his total T was 187 on a scale

> of 350 - 1050). Don't know if doc tested anything else - will find out

> next week.

>

> Within days of that shot, I was in absolute Heaven. I HONESTLY

> thought I was having an affair. We were out of town staying in a

> hotel (with the boys with family) and we had a sex fest. OMG. It was

> totally amazing. NEVER have we had intimacy like that. He was an

> animal. I was literally crying - a dream come true for me. I cry

> when I think about it!! I am a Stay at home mom and the plans I have

> for us at lunch during the week, at night, on weekends..........oh my

> goodness!!! I plan to not be able to walk!!!

>

> Outside of intimacy, he was so happy, so perky, not tired, well-rested

> in the morning, a bundle of energy.........simply amazing. I read

> online that that is one heck of a huge shot and that biweekly or

> weekly shots would be much better, but that was what we had at that

> time. He was thanking me for having him get tested - he felt wonderful.

>

> This week, he is back to being cranky, tired, very low drive. Sad

> wife!! He goes next Tuesday for the follow-up to discuss those

> results, at which time we will ask if we can do shots at home each

> week. If not, definitely will go every 2 weeks. Doc definitely

> prefers the shots, which from what I'm reading here, is a good thing!

> (I'm been reading for days, going back over all posts.)

>

> But my question is this: I had to effectively kill my sex drive to

> survive in this marriage. He is a wonderful man otherwise, loving,

> caring, my very best friend. Many feminine qualities, attached at my

> hip, I am his life. Just never needed much sex. We always joked that

> I was the guy in our relationship. He called me a freak of nature

> many times. He was TRULY convinced he was 100% normal, since he was

> having all the sex HE wanted. 22 years of my begging, crying.....got

> me nowhere. Except a mad husband. Even after the 2001 results. He

> has told me he was afraid of the treatment and since he had enough

> sex, he wasn't changing anything.

>

> We would literally work up plans where I would call him during the day

> to remind him to think about sex so he might want it that night. HIS

> idea!! He said he just had a really hard time remembering to think

> about it. Or if he went out of town, he asked me to call and remind

> him to masturbate so we wouldn't lose any ground. (and he swore

> nothing was wrong!)

>

> We almost divorced over this, I was tormented, it was really bad. I

> could not get him to understand that I wanted to be groped, I wanted

> to be thrown on the bed and desired. But I loved him so much in all

> other ways. His father and brother also very obviously have low T and

> father was just diagnosed with osteoporosis.

>

> Now that there is hope on the horizon and I just had that amazingly

> fantastic sexual experience 2 weeks ago with him, I am allowing my

> drive to wake back up. With it are unexpected emotions......lots of

> crying, sadness, anger, questions, mostly " Why why why didn't you

> listen to me??? Why wasn't I " enough " that you would go and check

> for ME? Why did it only matter HIS experience?

>

> This is not going over so well with him, as you can imagine. Of

> course, he is mortified he let me down but still on the other side

> doesn't seem to get it. I'm sure after a few more months of

> Testosterone treatment when he truly realizes how intercourse was

> supposed to feel all these years..... I truly do not think he ever had

> a " regular " drive, even in high school. Will be interesting to see if

> he has primary or secondary. (He had an MRI in 2003 for thyroid

> issues and he did not have any pituitary tumors. He is hypothyroid

> and has been on Armour Thyroid for over 10 years.) In 2001, his FSH

> was on the high end of the range, but don't know if that means it was

> " high " .

>

> I was just wondering if anyone has gone through this with a high drive

> wife who has a long history of sexual

> frustration/rejection/disappointment to get over. Do you have any

> advice for me?? I thought I would just get on the bandwagon, be one

> happy gal, and move forward. But instead, these awful feelings have

> surfaced, feelings I never really dealt with and as a result, here

> they are again. He is fine to go back to the piddly sex life we had

> if TRT is going to upset me. ACK!!! How could he say that?? I think

> I will be fine.....it's only be a week.... I will die if he quits the

> shots. OMG.

>

> Just wondering if anyone understands.......has any advice......how did

> your wives handle it?????? I do not want to sabotage this and I'm

> working really hard to " turn the page " but these emotions...I want

> them gone. Should we get some therapy even though it will dredge up

> all of that that made him so mad? Would that help or hurt? I have a

> VERY high drive and I think he didn't know what to do with me 2 weeks

> ago. I'm sure the hotel neighbors were like " What is going on in

> there! lol " It was a total dream come true - a mix of the wonderful

> man he is and the animal in bed I've fantasized about. We have such a

> good marriage otherwise. I don't want to do anything to hurt that.

>

> Thanks so much,

>

> C.

>

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 15:21:23 -0000, you wrote:

>

>C - I want to thank you. I have had a girlfriend for 7 years and I

>was considering marriage, I am not now.

>

>A quote from your post as follows:

>

> " But my question is this: I had to effectively kill my sex drive to

>survive in this marriage. He is a wonderful man otherwise, loving,

>caring, my very best friend. Many feminine qualities, attached at my

>hip, I am his life. Just never needed much sex. We always joked that

>I was the guy in our relationship. "

>

>I am not sure if you do not notice it, but there is no question

>presented. It sounds to me like you need counseling for if you were

>observing the natural order and encouraging your man to " man up " and

>lead, maybe his balls would naturally perk up.

Wow. Tom, all I can say is you got some issues. If find this way off

the mark, rude, and uncalled for. I hope you'll try to make your

" advice " more compassionate and considerate in the future.

>Your long winded rant is what keeps the escort business flourishing.

>All I read about is you, you, you and how " you " aren't getting bla

>bla. I feel sorry for your husband, sounds to me that you have

>reduced him to being the entertainment committee and the bank.

>

>Have you ever thought you have fallen short as the loving, caring,

>compassionate wife? My GF went through a year of no sex due to

>menopause, I was patient, even though I was feeling rejected every

>night. I bought her Suzanne Summers book " Break Out " and she is now

>taking the steps to get her hormones balanced and life is better for

>her. There has been times that it stressed thing and I know of few

>males that would hang in there for the better part of a year.

>

>Other than that his T loads are so extreme that his E2 can't be doing

>anything other than spiking like a crack whore having a 2 week period.

>There also may be other factors such as an iron overload condition

>called hemochromatosis, which is the most prevalent genetic disorder

>in the U.S. which will augment the problems.

>

>My advice is to address his issues with a solid bio identical MD, Dr.

> being the best or one from BodyLogicMD and some head time for you

>to learn how to be the respectful and dutiful wife. Your attitude if

>you were with me would have landed you in the corner for an hour of

>time out an an opportunity for you to reflect.

>

>If you want him to man up then give him his balls back. Start small,

>encourage him to order for you, or to do a Tarzan cry before crashing

>the sheets. It's obvious you need correction, so maybe a little spanky

>spanky for you to turn him into the he man that lurks under the

>surface. Calling him to remind him of his failings is not the way of

>the magi. It's like telling a smoker he has to quit.

>

>Tom U

[Guest guest]

Grouch, I have no tolerance for females who continually complain and

emasculate the men in their lives. The problem is yours not mine.

Yes, I have issues with people who remain idle and apathetic, when

wrongs stand uncorrected when those who stand idle watch and do

nothing. A major part of our problem in this country is the failure of

marriage and the violation of a natural order, which is reflected in

divorce and the offspring of single parents that are clueless.

Much has to do with men being lazy and not assuming our roles and

duties of responsibilities as most in previous generations maintained

without complaint. The other part of the equation to the failure of

family, which transverses community and country is the ridiculous lack

of respect and assuming of the female responsibilities. Old school,

yes, but it has proven itself out over time. The greed which is

destroying us as I write this is seeded in the failures of the basic

social structure, the family.

You preach compassion at me yet you do not hold her accountable for:

" Many feminine qualities, attached at my hip, I am his life. Just

never needed much sex. We always joked that I was the guy in our

relationship. "

Do you have a double standard? Maybe if missy would be

" compassionate " to her emasculated man and give him opportunities to

exude his nature, maybe she'd get laid more. If she is willing to post

to a public forum with rhetoric in her post that emasculates then game

on.

It isn't a joke and there is not anything funny about that quote from

her at all. If you find my confronting her unacceptable, demeaning

and contrary behavior an issue then maybe you have the issue. What

you have conveniently failed to recognize is my attempt at providing

references and concerns such as the excessive T dose and consequential

E2 elevations that may be complicating her MAN.

Tom U

>

> >

> >C - I want to thank you. I have had a girlfriend for 7 years and I

> >was considering marriage, I am not now.

> >

> >A quote from your post as follows:

> >

> > " But my question is this: I had to effectively kill my sex drive to

> >survive in this marriage. He is a wonderful man otherwise, loving,

> >caring, my very best friend. Many feminine qualities, attached at my

> >hip, I am his life. Just never needed much sex. We always joked that

> >I was the guy in our relationship. "

> >

> >I am not sure if you do not notice it, but there is no question

> >presented. It sounds to me like you need counseling for if you were

> >observing the natural order and encouraging your man to " man up " and

> >lead, maybe his balls would naturally perk up.

>

> Wow. Tom, all I can say is you got some issues. If find this way off

> the mark, rude, and uncalled for. I hope you'll try to make your

> " advice " more compassionate and considerate in the future.

>

>

>

> >Your long winded rant is what keeps the escort business flourishing.

> >All I read about is you, you, you and how " you " aren't getting bla

> >bla. I feel sorry for your husband, sounds to me that you have

> >reduced him to being the entertainment committee and the bank.

> >

> >Have you ever thought you have fallen short as the loving, caring,

> >compassionate wife? My GF went through a year of no sex due to

> >menopause, I was patient, even though I was feeling rejected every

> >night. I bought her Suzanne Summers book " Break Out " and she is now

> >taking the steps to get her hormones balanced and life is better for

> >her. There has been times that it stressed thing and I know of few

> >males that would hang in there for the better part of a year.

> >

> >Other than that his T loads are so extreme that his E2 can't be doing

> >anything other than spiking like a crack whore having a 2 week period.

> >There also may be other factors such as an iron overload condition

> >called hemochromatosis, which is the most prevalent genetic disorder

> >in the U.S. which will augment the problems.

> >

> >My advice is to address his issues with a solid bio identical MD, Dr.

> > being the best or one from BodyLogicMD and some head time for you

> >to learn how to be the respectful and dutiful wife. Your attitude if

> >you were with me would have landed you in the corner for an hour of

> >time out an an opportunity for you to reflect.

> >

> >If you want him to man up then give him his balls back. Start small,

> >encourage him to order for you, or to do a Tarzan cry before crashing

> >the sheets. It's obvious you need correction, so maybe a little spanky

> >spanky for you to turn him into the he man that lurks under the

> >surface. Calling him to remind him of his failings is not the way of

> >the magi. It's like telling a smoker he has to quit.

> >

> >Tom U

>

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:53:06 -0000, you wrote:

>Grouch, I have no tolerance for females who continually complain and

>emasculate the men in their lives.

I suspect you could have stopped after the word females.

>The problem is yours not mine.

I have a different opinion on that score.

How are your relationships with women working?

>Yes, I have issues with people who remain idle and apathetic, when

>wrongs stand uncorrected when those who stand idle watch and do

>nothing. A major part of our problem in this country is the failure of

>marriage and the violation of a natural order, which is reflected in

>divorce and the offspring of single parents that are clueless.

>

>Much has to do with men being lazy and not assuming our roles and

>duties of responsibilities as most in previous generations maintained

>without complaint. The other part of the equation to the failure of

>family, which transverses community and country is the ridiculous lack

>of respect and assuming of the female responsibilities. Old school,

>yes, but it has proven itself out over time. The greed which is

>destroying us as I write this is seeded in the failures of the basic

>social structure, the family.

>

>You preach compassion at me yet you do not hold her accountable for:

>

> " Many feminine qualities, attached at my hip, I am his life. Just

>never needed much sex. We always joked that I was the guy in our

>relationship. "

>

>Do you have a double standard? Maybe if missy would be

> " compassionate " to her emasculated man and give him opportunities to

>exude his nature, maybe she'd get laid more. If she is willing to post

>to a public forum with rhetoric in her post that emasculates then game

>on.

>

>It isn't a joke and there is not anything funny about that quote from

>her at all.

And nothing in it worthy of the condemnation and attack you leveled at

her.

Low T has a profound impact on peoples ability to do what needs to be

done. If she helps him get there, great.

> If you find my confronting her unacceptable, demeaning

>and contrary behavior an issue then maybe you have the issue. What

>you have conveniently failed to recognize is my attempt at providing

>references and concerns such as the excessive T dose and consequential

>E2 elevations that may be complicating her MAN.

She came here for help understanding her husbands illness and got

attacked for it. And she hasn't been back since. She didn't get the

help she came for, and we ALL lost the chance to learn something about

the woman's perspective on these issues. Good job.

You got to work your issues out a little, and everyone else has to pay

for it.

There's a much easier way to get through the world.

>

>>

>> >

>> >C - I want to thank you. I have had a girlfriend for 7 years and I

>> >was considering marriage, I am not now.

>> >

>> >A quote from your post as follows:

>> >

>> > " But my question is this: I had to effectively kill my sex drive to

>> >survive in this marriage. He is a wonderful man otherwise, loving,

>> >caring, my very best friend. Many feminine qualities, attached at my

>> >hip, I am his life. Just never needed much sex. We always joked that

>> >I was the guy in our relationship. "

>> >

>> >I am not sure if you do not notice it, but there is no question

>> >presented. It sounds to me like you need counseling for if you were

>> >observing the natural order and encouraging your man to " man up " and

>> >lead, maybe his balls would naturally perk up.

>>

>> Wow. Tom, all I can say is you got some issues. If find this way off

>> the mark, rude, and uncalled for. I hope you'll try to make your

>> " advice " more compassionate and considerate in the future.

>>

>>

>>

>> >Your long winded rant is what keeps the escort business flourishing.

>> >All I read about is you, you, you and how " you " aren't getting bla

>> >bla. I feel sorry for your husband, sounds to me that you have

>> >reduced him to being the entertainment committee and the bank.

>> >

>> >Have you ever thought you have fallen short as the loving, caring,

>> >compassionate wife? My GF went through a year of no sex due to

>> >menopause, I was patient, even though I was feeling rejected every

>> >night. I bought her Suzanne Summers book " Break Out " and she is now

>> >taking the steps to get her hormones balanced and life is better for

>> >her. There has been times that it stressed thing and I know of few

>> >males that would hang in there for the better part of a year.

>> >

>> >Other than that his T loads are so extreme that his E2 can't be doing

>> >anything other than spiking like a crack whore having a 2 week period.

>> >There also may be other factors such as an iron overload condition

>> >called hemochromatosis, which is the most prevalent genetic disorder

>> >in the U.S. which will augment the problems.

>> >

>> >My advice is to address his issues with a solid bio identical MD, Dr.

>> > being the best or one from BodyLogicMD and some head time for you

>> >to learn how to be the respectful and dutiful wife. Your attitude if

>> >you were with me would have landed you in the corner for an hour of

>> >time out an an opportunity for you to reflect.

>> >

>> >If you want him to man up then give him his balls back. Start small,

>> >encourage him to order for you, or to do a Tarzan cry before crashing

>> >the sheets. It's obvious you need correction, so maybe a little spanky

>> >spanky for you to turn him into the he man that lurks under the

>> >surface. Calling him to remind him of his failings is not the way of

>> >the magi. It's like telling a smoker he has to quit.

>> >

>> >Tom U

>>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the advice and the emails I have received. I truly appreciate it.

And you know what is great? There's too much life to be lived than to let

others bring you down. We all have our issues and things that " trigger "

something in us. What we acknowledge, we can fix. (And using the " block "

feature under profiles is a great tool for maintaining " positive in, positive

out " .)

I want to better understand my husband's side of things. 22 years is a long

time to ache inside and not understand WHY. He is just now in the last month

(first month of treatment) realizing what he never knew......and we are both so

thrilled. I came here seeking help for MY issue that had recently arisen quite

unexpectedly and I was devastated to have that reaction (even for a minute) when

the dream of my life was coming true. I am so happy for him, for me, and for US

that we can now come together as God intended.

Today's update - The doc suggested 2 weeks shots, which hubby wants to try first

and see how he feels. Doc is starting with 200 every 2 weeks, but based on the

next blood draw, will be happy to adjust higher if needed. He did mention that

some patients prefer weekly shots (but wasn't clear if that could be done at

home - hubby didn't want to ask that yet.)

In 6 weeks, the doc will take blood on the day of the visit and then 3 days

later to register the T level just prior to a shot and then the highest level.

Was also very amenable to testing E2 for us, although he rarely does. I was

impressed that he was so open to the discussion.

So, thanks again - I really appreciate the help!! And if you don't see me for a

while, you know what we'll be doing..............

C.

[Guest guest]

> >>

> >> >

> >> >C - I want to thank you. I have had a girlfriend for 7 years and I

> >> >was considering marriage, I am not now.

> >> >

> >> >A quote from your post as follows:

> >> >

> >> > " But my question is this: I had to effectively kill my sex drive to

> >> >survive in this marriage. He is a wonderful man otherwise, loving,

> >> >caring, my very best friend. Many feminine qualities, attached at my

> >> >hip, I am his life. Just never needed much sex. We always joked that

> >> >I was the guy in our relationship. "

> >> >

> >> >I am not sure if you do not notice it, but there is no question

> >> >presented. It sounds to me like you need counseling for if you were

> >> >observing the natural order and encouraging your man to " man up " and

> >> >lead, maybe his balls would naturally perk up.

> >>

> >> Wow. Tom, all I can say is you got some issues. If find this way off

> >> the mark, rude, and uncalled for. I hope you'll try to make your

> >> " advice " more compassionate and considerate in the future.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> >Your long winded rant is what keeps the escort business flourishing.

> >> >All I read about is you, you, you and how " you " aren't getting bla

> >> >bla. I feel sorry for your husband, sounds to me that you have

> >> >reduced him to being the entertainment committee and the bank.

> >> >

> >> >Have you ever thought you have fallen short as the loving, caring,

> >> >compassionate wife? My GF went through a year of no sex due to

> >> >menopause, I was patient, even though I was feeling rejected every

> >> >night. I bought her Suzanne Summers book " Break Out " and she is now

> >> >taking the steps to get her hormones balanced and life is better for

> >> >her. There has been times that it stressed thing and I know of few

> >> >males that would hang in there for the better part of a year.

> >> >

> >> >Other than that his T loads are so extreme that his E2 can't be doing

> >> >anything other than spiking like a crack whore having a 2 week period.

> >> >There also may be other factors such as an iron overload condition

> >> >called hemochromatosis, which is the most prevalent genetic disorder

> >> >in the U.S. which will augment the problems.

> >> >

> >> >My advice is to address his issues with a solid bio identical MD, Dr.

> >> > being the best or one from BodyLogicMD and some head time for you

> >> >to learn how to be the respectful and dutiful wife. Your attitude if

> >> >you were with me would have landed you in the corner for an hour of

> >> >time out an an opportunity for you to reflect.

> >> >

> >> >If you want him to man up then give him his balls back. Start small,

> >> >encourage him to order for you, or to do a Tarzan cry before crashing

> >> >the sheets. It's obvious you need correction, so maybe a little spanky

> >> >spanky for you to turn him into the he man that lurks under the

> >> >surface. Calling him to remind him of his failings is not the way of

> >> >the magi. It's like telling a smoker he has to quit.

> >> >

> >> >Tom U

> >>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:56:13 -0000, you wrote:

>> There's a much easier way to get through the world.

>

>How is it that you do not get this? You obviously are intelligent and have

connections with nature and mind/body. Wake up! She was out of line and even

if others thought my response to her was out of line it in no way can be denied

that she was off topic and out of scope for the intent and definition of the

group labeled " Hypogonadism. " If you want to learn so much about females not

getting laid that bash their men, go subscribe to the applicable womens group or

forum. I am here for science and survival, period.

>

>Now why don't we agree to disagree and put both of our minds and resources back

onto the science and this focus group, which is what I am trying to achieve in

the other posts that invite you to interact with me for the purpose of

addressing issues contained in the scope of this group? Deal............? Time

wasted is life wasted.

I agree. We've pushed this far enough. No one's mind is going to be

changed.

I recognize real differences between men and women. It's fascinating

stuff actually. I've just finished reading Sack's " Why Gender Matters "

actually. It's on the scientifically proven differences in gender in

problem solving, behavior, brain wiring and chemistry and what that

means.

She's here and not going away. That was my main concern. We can learn

a lot from the women who come here to help us see what our women are

dealing with. We can help each other. I didn't want them to get

chased away by your venting. Simple enough.

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 08:03:37 -0000, you wrote:

>In 6 weeks, the doc will take blood on the day of the visit and then 3 days

later to register the T level just prior to a shot and then the highest level.

Was also very amenable to testing E2 for us, although he rarely does. I was

impressed that he was so open to the discussion.

A keeper! Good docs who listen are hard to find!

[Guest guest]

If you're looking for a forum that is primarily women who are dealing with ED

and other sexual dysfunction-type problems, try sEDp which stands for Support ED

Partners. It's a very active group that does a great job of addressing the

" emotional " side of dealing with ED/sexual dysfunction issue.

>

> Thank you for the advice and the emails I have received. I truly appreciate

it. And you know what is great? There's too much life to be lived than to let

others bring you down. We all have our issues and things that " trigger "

something in us. What we acknowledge, we can fix. (And using the " block "

feature under profiles is a great tool for maintaining " positive in, positive

out " .)

>

> I want to better understand my husband's side of things. 22 years is a long

time to ache inside and not understand WHY. He is just now in the last month

(first month of treatment) realizing what he never knew......and we are both so

thrilled. I came here seeking help for MY issue that had recently arisen quite

unexpectedly and I was devastated to have that reaction (even for a minute) when

the dream of my life was coming true. I am so happy for him, for me, and for US

that we can now come together as God intended.

>

> Today's update - The doc suggested 2 weeks shots, which hubby wants to try

first and see how he feels. Doc is starting with 200 every 2 weeks, but based

on the next blood draw, will be happy to adjust higher if needed. He did

mention that some patients prefer weekly shots (but wasn't clear if that could

be done at home - hubby didn't want to ask that yet.)

>

> In 6 weeks, the doc will take blood on the day of the visit and then 3 days

later to register the T level just prior to a shot and then the highest level.

Was also very amenable to testing E2 for us, although he rarely does. I was

impressed that he was so open to the discussion.

>

> So, thanks again - I really appreciate the help!! And if you don't see me for

a while, you know what we'll be doing..............

>

> C.

>

[Guest guest]

> Today's update - The doc suggested 2 weeks shots, which hubby wants > to try

first and see how he feels. Doc is starting with 200 every > 2 weeks, but based

on the next blood draw, will be happy to adjust > higher if needed. He did

mention that some patients prefer weekly > shots (but wasn't clear if that could

be done at home -

sure it can be done at home.

LOTS of us here are doing just that... which reminds me, I need to go draw

tomorrow morning's shot!

> Was also very amenable to testing E2 for us, although he rarely

> does. I was impressed that he was so open to the discussion.

impressed that he's showing vague signs of competence?!

you'll need a " sensitive e2 " test btw.

over 40 is HIGH

ttyl

[Guest guest]

Clarification - I don't know if the doc is open to having the shots at home. I

got the feeling he would expect hubby to go in each week but could be wrong.

Hubby wasn't ready to discuss that option - wants to try the 2 week first. We

have done allergy shots and infertility shots at home in the past, so we'd be ok

with it.

Thanks!

C.

>

>

> > Today's update - The doc suggested 2 weeks shots, which hubby wants > to try

first and see how he feels. Doc is starting with 200 every > 2 weeks, but based

on the next blood draw, will be happy to adjust > higher if needed. He did

mention that some patients prefer weekly > shots (but wasn't clear if that could

be done at home -

>

> sure it can be done at home.

>

> LOTS of us here are doing just that... which reminds me, I need to go draw

tomorrow morning's shot!

>

> > Was also very amenable to testing E2 for us, although he rarely

> > does. I was impressed that he was so open to the discussion.

>

> impressed that he's showing vague signs of competence?!

>

> you'll need a " sensitive e2 " test btw.

>

> over 40 is HIGH

>

> ttyl

>

[Guest guest]

I am not venting, I am expression a fundamental belief. Yes, there are

fundamental differences, as a generality, as I am sure contained in your current

reading material. Why do you think I take women to business engagements or

negotiations. The women that are tuned in have an intuition that is keen. So

it is a measure of that which compliments, each gender onto itself. Thank God

it was designed that way, what a boring world it would be otherwise.

I am glad women are in this group for a number of reasons. Andropause does not

get " equal " airtime. IT provides us with their perspective and when concerns

and compassion is expressed, motivate us to want to come together in a way that

some marriages or relationships never had a chance to on that level. As humans

we tend to have to label and stick things in mental drawers in order to grasp

concept, mostly due to the limitations of language which is not object oriented.

Mentioned only to emphasize that if you consider all hormones comprehensively,

most if not all are shared between the genders at different levels or values.

Conversely, it should also " resonate " with the female readers that sometimes it

is not always about them and that the mans lack of interest is not because she

is over 40 and aging or in her mind less attractive, but a real issue that he is

going through, which warrants compassion, understanding and encouragement with

the focus on him and his needs. Its amazing when I have had the opportunities

to serve others it always comes back to me with positive returns that leave you

in awe.

Also, I did not read this post of your first and responded to your one just

prior. So enough........and enjoy.

Tom U

>

> >> There's a much easier way to get through the world.

> >

> >How is it that you do not get this? You obviously are intelligent and have

connections with nature and mind/body. Wake up! She was out of line and even

if others thought my response to her was out of line it in no way can be denied

that she was off topic and out of scope for the intent and definition of the

group labeled " Hypogonadism. " If you want to learn so much about females not

getting laid that bash their men, go subscribe to the applicable womens group or

forum. I am here for science and survival, period.

> >

> >Now why don't we agree to disagree and put both of our minds and resources

back onto the science and this focus group, which is what I am trying to achieve

in the other posts that invite you to interact with me for the purpose of

addressing issues contained in the scope of this group? Deal............? Time

wasted is life wasted.

>

>

> I agree. We've pushed this far enough. No one's mind is going to be

> changed.

>

> I recognize real differences between men and women. It's fascinating

> stuff actually. I've just finished reading Sack's " Why Gender Matters "

> actually. It's on the scientifically proven differences in gender in

> problem solving, behavior, brain wiring and chemistry and what that

> means.

>

> She's here and not going away. That was my main concern. We can learn

> a lot from the women who come here to help us see what our women are

> dealing with. We can help each other. I didn't want them to get

> chased away by your venting. Simple enough.

>

[Guest guest]

Keeping in mind the pulsatile nature of the HPGA (hypothalamus, pituitary, gonad

axis) most shoot T once a week, as myself, some twice. Seems that most of any

part of HRT is best served with lower dosing and more frequency.

>

>

> > Today's update - The doc suggested 2 weeks shots, which hubby wants > to try

first and see how he feels. Doc is starting with 200 every > 2 weeks, but based

on the next blood draw, will be happy to adjust > higher if needed. He did

mention that some patients prefer weekly > shots (but wasn't clear if that could

be done at home -

>

> sure it can be done at home.

>

> LOTS of us here are doing just that... which reminds me, I need to go draw

tomorrow morning's shot!

>

> > Was also very amenable to testing E2 for us, although he rarely

> > does. I was impressed that he was so open to the discussion.

>

> impressed that he's showing vague signs of competence?!

>

> you'll need a " sensitive e2 " test btw.

>

> over 40 is HIGH

>

> ttyl

>

[Guest guest]

Self-injection is cheaper (no co-pay) & more convenient but if your husband

needs a bit more assurance or dr. interaction, there's nothing wrong with an

office visit.

~Xian

>

> Clarification - I don't know if the doc is open to having the shots at home.

I got the feeling he would expect hubby to go in each week but could be wrong.

Hubby wasn't ready to discuss that option - wants to try the 2 week first. We

have done allergy shots and infertility shots at home in the past, so we'd be ok

with it.

>

> Thanks!

>

> C.

>