Re: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

August 19, 2009

One months ago, I went to my primary Doc. and I got a testosterone test and the

level was 211, then she refered me to an Endo. I did a test two weeks ago and

now my test. level is 337. but still I do have sex problem Can u tell me what

can I do.

________________________________

From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@...>

Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:27:52 PM

Subject: Re: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

I can't find a primary doctor that can treat low T. I anticipate seeing Dr.

Gordon. He is sending an order for a blood test. Primary docs. are only good for

cholesterol or things like that. They're robots. most can't think outside the

box. The blinders are on.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I've seen a lot of things that say lack of sleep lowers a guys

testosterone. I used to sleep like a baby before I started noticing the low T

symptoms. Eventually, after I get my hormones squared away, will my sleep

improve? From what I've read, complex hormonal stuff happens at night.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When I started noticing the low T stuff and starting to not sleep,

I started using melatonin. It seemed to help somewhat. Then I read that

melatonin being a hormone that is produced is not good for testosterone in a

high amount. Is this true?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'd give almost anything for a good nights sleep. So would my

wife, she's postmenopause. I've read that some testosterone might do her good.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

August 19, 2009

>

> I just got my labs. my recent T level is 85,,, last time it was

> checked lat yer it was 160. I have been seeing aurologist for

> alomst 2 yrs and no treatments....WHY

Hi,

well I'd say a grossly incompetent physician...

viagra/cialis/etc won't fix every case of ED that comes in the urologist's

door... though lots of them think that it will...

and I spent years in a State Medical School associated with half a dozen

hopsitals and including the department of endocrinology and urology.

but I've been handling most of my medical needs myself for decades now...

so ymmv... I'm NOT an MD... I just read all their books. :-}

-I- would just go BUY a 10ml bottle of Testosterone Enthanate (why test-e?

'cause it's usually dosed at 250mg/ml vs 200mg/ml for test-c at the same price),

some arimidex, some hcg, and start a " standard regimen " of 1/2cc of test IM once

a week, 250iu of hcg IM on days 5 & 6, and after the first week 1/4mg of

arimidex every 3rd day... why after the first week? at this point you don't have

any T to aromatize! for " equipment " I get my syringes/needles from

www.getpinz.com and arimidex and hcg from www.alldaychemist.com.

Testosterone is a schedule drug... I'm not going to tell you where to buy

that... but if you go to the bodybuilding forums that's not hard to find out.

get labs run after a month (I'd have total T, free T, and a sensitive e2 test,

along with a lipid panel... I get mine done via the department of endo really

cheap... but it seems your getting labs done for something... if free T and

e2/estradiol (get the sensitive test) aren't being listed when they give you the

sheet with your tests to take to the lab just add check marks for them... and a

2nd fax# to have the results faxed to YOU too) and watch how you respond.

this is of course assuming you're not being treated for cancer or other SERIOUS

LIFE THREATENING DISEASE... though a T level as low as yours is serious

and as I noted I'm NOT an MD. this is what -I- would do if -I- was in your

situation and is not a substitute for the care of a competent physician.

ttyl

good luck... and try to find a new doc... if you've got a total T level of 85

and it's not being treated your current doc isn't paying attention.

August 19, 2009

Lay off the sauce

>

> >

> > I just got my labs. my recent T level is 85,,, last time it was

> > checked lat yer it was 160. I have been seeing aurologist for

> > alomst 2 yrs and no treatments....WHY

>

> Hi,

>

> well I'd say a grossly incompetent physician...

>

> viagra/cialis/etc won't fix every case of ED that comes in the urologist's

door... though lots of them think that it will...

>

> and I spent years in a State Medical School associated with half a dozen

hopsitals and including the department of endocrinology and urology.

>

> but I've been handling most of my medical needs myself for decades now...

>

> so ymmv... I'm NOT an MD... I just read all their books. :-}

>

> -I- would just go BUY a 10ml bottle of Testosterone Enthanate (why test-e?

'cause it's usually dosed at 250mg/ml vs 200mg/ml for test-c at the same price),

some arimidex, some hcg, and start a " standard regimen " of 1/2cc of test IM once

a week, 250iu of hcg IM on days 5 & 6, and after the first week 1/4mg of

arimidex every 3rd day... why after the first week? at this point you don't have

any T to aromatize! for " equipment " I get my syringes/needles from

www.getpinz.com and arimidex and hcg from www.alldaychemist.com.

>

> Testosterone is a schedule drug... I'm not going to tell you where to buy

that... but if you go to the bodybuilding forums that's not hard to find out.

>

> get labs run after a month (I'd have total T, free T, and a sensitive e2 test,

along with a lipid panel... I get mine done via the department of endo really

cheap... but it seems your getting labs done for something... if free T and

e2/estradiol (get the sensitive test) aren't being listed when they give you the

sheet with your tests to take to the lab just add check marks for them... and a

2nd fax# to have the results faxed to YOU too) and watch how you respond.

>

> this is of course assuming you're not being treated for cancer or other

SERIOUS LIFE THREATENING DISEASE... though a T level as low as yours is serious

>

> and as I noted I'm NOT an MD. this is what -I- would do if -I- was in your

situation and is not a substitute for the care of a competent physician.

>

> ttyl

>

> good luck... and try to find a new doc... if you've got a total T level of 85

and it's not being treated your current doc isn't paying attention.

>

August 19, 2009

If your endo didn't perscribe anything FIND ANOTHER DOC. Use the database on

this board and the article 'how to find a good doc'

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of things that say lack of sleep lowers a guys

testosterone. I used to sleep like a baby before I started noticing the low T

symptoms. Eventually, after I get my hormones squared away, will my sleep

improve? From what I've read, complex hormonal stuff happens at night.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When I started noticing the low T stuff and starting to not

sleep, I started using melatonin. It seemed to help somewhat. Then I read that

melatonin being a hormone that is produced is not good for testosterone in a

high amount. Is this true?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything for a good nights sleep. So would my

wife, she's postmenopause. I've read that some testosterone might do her good.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

August 19, 2009

Well for one thing you need to know why your levels are low and seeing an Endo

is a waste of time and money they just are not good Dr.'s for low Testosterone

even Thyroid they know nothing. You need to find out why your low if it can be

fixed your levels will come back up. Things that drive down T levels are High

Estradiol, Fatty Liver, High Iron, Stress, over doing it in the gym, Eating to

much SOY and the list goes on.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Arnoldo . Parada <joar64@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

>

> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 12:50 PM

> One months ago, I went to my primary

> Doc. and I got a testosterone test and the level was 211,

> then she refered me to an Endo. I did a test two weeks ago

> and now my test. level is 337. but still I do have sex

> problem Can u tell me what can I do.

>

> ________________________________

> From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@...>

>

> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:27:52 PM

> Subject: Re: lack of sleep or low T, which

> came first

>

> I can't find a primary doctor that can treat low T. I

> anticipate seeing Dr. Gordon. He is sending an order for a

> blood test. Primary docs. are only good for cholesterol or

> things like that. They're robots. most can't think outside

> the box. The blinders are on.

>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> things that say lack of sleep lowers a guys testosterone. I

> used to sleep like a baby before I started noticing the low

> T symptoms. Eventually, after I get my hormones squared

> away, will my sleep improve? From what I've read, complex

> hormonal stuff happens at night.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When I started noticing

> the low T stuff and starting to not sleep, I started using

> melatonin. It seemed to help somewhat. Then I read that

> melatonin being a hormone that is produced is not good for

> testosterone in a high amount. Is this true?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything

> for a good nights sleep. So would my wife, she's

> postmenopause. I've read that some testosterone might do her

> good.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> have been removed]

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

August 19, 2009

There has been a lot of talk here about finding a good doctor. I have seen

twelve doctors in the past fourteen months. Two of them were endos and two were

uros. Most of them were recommended to me as doctors who delt with male hormone

issues. When I went to see them, almost all of them were clueless on hormone

issues. Only two really did any thing. One prescribed arimidex for my high E2

figuring that would bring up my testosterone levels. That helped some, but I

still have low normal T levels. One of the endos I saw said he would give me

whatever wanted. The problem is I really don't know what I need and I want a

doctor who doesn't have to be told what to do.

Also at this point I'm not sure that testosterone is the real problem. I think

that I may have adrenal issues, due to saliva tests I had done, and symptoms I

have had. I don't want to rush in to TRT if there is some curable problem that

would correct my test level. So far I haven't found anyone who even thinks

adrenal issues are for real.

Sometime when I have more time I'll post my labs and see what you think.

bjesplin

>

> > From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@...>

> > Subject: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 5:54 PM

> > I've seen a lot of things that say

> > lack of sleep lowers a guys testosterone. I used to sleep

> > like a baby before I started noticing the low T symptoms.

> > Eventually, after I get my hormones squared away, will my

> > sleep improve? From what I've read, complex hormonal stuff

> > happens at night.

> >

> > When I started noticing the low T stuff and starting to not

> > sleep, I started using melatonin. It seemed to help

> > somewhat. Then I read that melatonin being a hormone that is

> > produced is not good for testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > this true?

> >

> > I'd give almost anything for a good nights sleep. So would

> > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've read that some

> > testosterone might do her good.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

August 20, 2009

You may have said so already, but were you given a testosterone test? If so,

what was the reading? Total, BioAvailable, Free

> >

> > > From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@>

> > > Subject: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

> > >

> > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 5:54 PM

> > > I've seen a lot of things that say

> > > lack of sleep lowers a guys testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > like a baby before I started noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > Eventually, after I get my hormones squared away, will my

> > > sleep improve? From what I've read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > happens at night.

> > >

> > > When I started noticing the low T stuff and starting to not

> > > sleep, I started using melatonin. It seemed to help

> > > somewhat. Then I read that melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > produced is not good for testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > this true?

> > >

> > > I'd give almost anything for a good nights sleep. So would

> > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've read that some

> > > testosterone might do her good.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

August 20, 2009

Twelve doctors is a lot of doctors. What area of the country are you in? Here is

a database of known TRT docs:

/database?method=reportRows & tb\

l=1

And recommendations on how to find one if one of these isn't close enough to

you.

http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/kBCNSlLC4Gd4dZTP_9elX8H0dv_0FgbIzXykH4J8WraAQfMTua6\

AzoxB1kQxbKrew2RGK--eGQpUM4DoRzYv9H6ntp0FHIk/Finding%20a%20Male%20Hormone%20Doct\

or

> >

> > > From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@>

> > > Subject: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

> > >

> > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 5:54 PM

> > > I've seen a lot of things that say

> > > lack of sleep lowers a guys testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > like a baby before I started noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > Eventually, after I get my hormones squared away, will my

> > > sleep improve? From what I've read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > happens at night.

> > >

> > > When I started noticing the low T stuff and starting to not

> > > sleep, I started using melatonin. It seemed to help

> > > somewhat. Then I read that melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > produced is not good for testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > this true?

> > >

> > > I'd give almost anything for a good nights sleep. So would

> > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've read that some

> > > testosterone might do her good.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

August 20, 2009

Hey jimevans, Thanks for the reply. This is the answer I was looking for when I

started the topic. The topic morphed in different directions which is good

information for other people, but i wanted to know about quality of sleep after

I start HRT.

I have not had a good nights sleep since I started having low T symptoms. Before

that, I never had a problem. I also put something out there about melatonin use

for sleep. It got no hits though. I read that melatonin useage for sleep should

be avoided in a testosterone challenged guy. I used to use it when I started not

sleeping.

>

> I don't know which came first, but I do know that when I started on

testosterone I began to sleep soundly for the first time in my life. I'd always

been a light sleeper, but when my T is balanced, I sleep deep and long.

>

August 20, 2009

Clicking on the link below for database of TRT doc's gives the folllowing error

message:

Records Records Help

Sorry. The table you requested does not exist in the Database

View tables list

> > >

> > > > From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@>

> > > > Subject: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

> > > >

> > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 5:54 PM

> > > > I've seen a lot of things that say

> > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > like a baby before I started noticing the low T symptoms.

> > > > Eventually, after I get my hormones squared away, will my

> > > > sleep improve? From what I've read, complex hormonal stuff

> > > > happens at night.

> > > >

> > > > When I started noticing the low T stuff and starting to not

> > > > sleep, I started using melatonin. It seemed to help

> > > > somewhat. Then I read that melatonin being a hormone that is

> > > > produced is not good for testosterone in a high amount. Is

> > > > this true?

> > > >

> > > > I'd give almost anything for a good nights sleep. So would

> > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've read that some

> > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

August 20, 2009

Your right not to go on TRT until you find out why your low. I am Hypopituitary

and need Testosterone, my Cortisol levels are very low I take 30 mgs total /day

starting with 10mgs at 5am then at 9am I take 5mgs at 1pm I take 10 mgs and 5mgs

at 6pm. Most do good on just 5 mgs 4x's/day. If your Adrenals are not making

enough cortisol then your DHEA will be to low also. And your Thyroid can be low

to tell if your Thyroid is low take your Temp under your arm before getting out

of bed in the morning if your below 97.8 you might have a Thyroid Problem also.

Read these links.

http://drbate.com/Ref/thyroid.html

http://livingnetwork.co.za/hormones/adrenal-fatigue/

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=24

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=256

Here is what I feel about this problem if you have had Adrenal problems for a

long time you might need Cortef or HC for life and supporting them with HC your

Testosterone levels if very low will not come up all that high. So I tell men

if this is whats wrong treat your Testosterone and Adrenals first why go a yr.

trying to fix something that can't be fixed and suffer. After your Adrenals are

supported with enough HC go in Thyroid meds you need Cortisol to carry the

Thyroid hormones out of your blood into your cells or the Thyroid med will make

you sicker.

It took me a year to get on enough HC and Armour to feel better but I also found

out my Ferritin levels were low this happens with Thyroid problems.

So if you checked every thing and this is all that you found wrong go on the

Testosterone mends or you will just feel dam bad for a long time getting your

Adrenals supported only to find out your Testosterone is still to low.

I would also do an ACTH stim. test to see if your Primary or Secondary.

Here is a link to help you find a good Dr. DO Dr.'s are good for this.

http://www.geocities.com/chrisgjsbcglobal (DOT) net/Osteopaths.html

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: esplinbj <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

>

> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 11:20 PM

> There has been a lot of talk here

> about finding a good doctor. I have seen twelve

> doctors in the past fourteen months. Two of them were

> endos and two were uros. Most of them were recommended

> to me as doctors who delt with male hormone issues.

> When I went to see them, almost all of them were clueless on

> hormone issues. Only two really did any thing.

> One prescribed arimidex for my high E2 figuring that would

> bring up my testosterone levels. That helped some, but

> I still have low normal T levels. One of the endos I

> saw said he would give me whatever wanted. The problem

> is I really don't know what I need and I want a doctor who

> doesn't have to be told what to do.

>

> Also at this point I'm not sure that testosterone is the

> real problem. I think that I may have adrenal issues,

> due to saliva tests I had done, and symptoms I have

> had. I don't want to rush in to TRT if there is some

> curable problem that would correct my test level. So

> far I haven't found anyone who even thinks adrenal issues

> are for real.

>

> Sometime when I have more time I'll post my labs and see

> what you think.

> bjesplin

>

> >

> > > From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@...>

> > > Subject: lack of sleep or low T,

> which came first

> > >

> > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 5:54 PM

> > > I've seen a lot of things that say

> > > lack of sleep lowers a guys testosterone. I used

> to sleep

> > > like a baby before I started noticing the low T

> symptoms.

> > > Eventually, after I get my hormones squared away,

> will my

> > > sleep improve? From what I've read, complex

> hormonal stuff

> > > happens at night.

> > >

> > > When I started noticing the low T stuff and

> starting to not

> > > sleep, I started using melatonin. It seemed to

> help

> > > somewhat. Then I read that melatonin being a

> hormone that is

> > > produced is not good for testosterone in a high

> amount. Is

> > > this true?

> > >

> > > I'd give almost anything for a good nights sleep.

> So would

> > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've read that

> some

> > > testosterone might do her good.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

August 20, 2009

Not right when you have low hormones melatonin takes a hit so it's good to take

it but take the slow release kind and start with a low dose give if a good 2

weeks before going up on the dose. Also check your morning fasting Cortisol

levels and Thyroid this can keep your up all night is your cortisol levels are

low if your labs are 15 or less then do a 4x's in a day Cortisol Saliva test.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@...>

> Subject: Re: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

>

> Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 6:37 AM

> Hey jimevans, Thanks for the reply.

> This is the answer I was looking for when I started the

> topic. The topic morphed in different directions which is

> good information for other people, but i wanted to know

> about quality of sleep after I start HRT.

>

> I have not had a good nights sleep since I started having

> low T symptoms. Before that, I never had a problem. I also

> put something out there about melatonin use for sleep. It

> got no hits though. I read that melatonin useage for sleep

> should be avoided in a testosterone challenged guy. I used

> to use it when I started not sleeping.

>

> >

> > I don't know which came first, but I do know that when

> I started on testosterone I began to sleep soundly for the

> first time in my life. I'd always been a light sleeper, but

> when my T is balanced, I sleep deep and long.

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

August 20, 2009

Yes it does work your cookies need to be deleated here is a cut and paste on the

Dr.'s we use.

==========================================================================

Abraham Kryger wellnessmd@... (831) 373-4406 1084 Cass Street

Monterey, CA 93940 hormones. CV at www.wellnessmd.com Edit Delete

Barry Gordon drebgmd@... 718-252-2627 5601 Flatlands Ave Brooklyn NY 11234

TRT Injections - Men & Women Edit Delete

Barry Gordon MD drebgmd@... 718-356-0207 4236 Richmond Ave Staten Island

NY 10312 TRT Injections -Men & Women 718-356-0209 Edit Delete

C.W. Lovell, Jr. (225) 928-1791 429 E. Airport, Suite B Baton Rouge,

Louisiana 70806 Baton Rouge Climacteric - Menopausal Clinic Hormone Replacement

Therapy FAX (225) 928-1783 Edit Delete

407-897-5605 2501 N. Orange Avenue, Suite 235 Orlando, FL

Family Health Center Public Health, Geriatrics & Family Medicine 407-303-2517

Edit Delete

Charlton 601-428-7221 115 S Magnolia Street Laurel, MS 39442 Laurel

Menopause Clinic Hormone Replacement Therapy for Men & Women (uses hormone

pellets) Edit Delete

Steidle, M.D http://www.seekwellness.com/andropause/index.htm

260-436-6667 7900 W. Jefferson Blvd., Suite 301 Fort Wayne, IN 46804 Fort Wayne,

IN 46835 Ft. Wayne, Indiana North East Indiana Urology North East Indiana

Urology North East Indiana Urology Urology, testosterone replacement therapy,

impotence Edit Delete

DR. Drake 405) 946-9831 3433 NW 56th St oklahoma city Endocrinology

Prescribes Androgel, Testim and Depo Testosterone Edit Delete

a Paunesky, M. D. renaissancemedical@... 770-777-7707 3400 Old

Milton Pkwy., Bldg. C, Suite 330 Alpharetta, GA 30005 Renaissance Medical Center

Anti-Aging, Internal Medicine, and Weight Loss. Testosterone pellets.

http://www.atlantaantiaging.com Edit Delete

Danilo K. Asase MD FACE Asase@... 956-544-7833 844 Central Blvd 430

Brownsville Texas 78520 Professional Tower Brownsville Medical Center Adult &

Pediatric Urology / Urologic Surgery www.UrologyChannel.com/AsaseMD Edit Delete

Mitzner info@... (951)506-5768 27625 Jefferson Ave #

101 Temecula, CA 92590 M Mitzner Family Clinic? Doctor of Osteopathy,

Musculoskeletal System (951)506-6579 Edit Delete

Dr. Gerald Young (208) 547-4961 366 South 3rd West Soda Springs, Idaho 83276

Caribou Medical Clinic Family Practice Edit Delete

Dr. Gilbert s (617)726-8430 Mass General Hospital Boston, Massachusetts

Private practice, I highly reccomend him.Treats lots of patients Endro n/a Edit

Delete

Dr. Mora M.D. 916-489-4400 3301 Alta Arden Suite3 Sacramento, CA

Health Associates Medical Group Edit Delete

Eugene R. Shippen III, MD 610-777-7896 9 E. Lancaster Ave. Shillington, PA

19607 Endocrinology, Metabolism & Diabetes Edit Delete

Melograna (301) 474-3636 7801 Belle Point Dr. Greenbelt MD (also in

polis MD) Urology Edit Delete

Melograna, M.D. powerajw@... 410-897-0540 116 Defense Highway, Suite #

200 polis, MD 21401-7022 On Web: www.wmurology.com; also has Greenbelt, MD,

office Urology; hcg; T pellets; referred to me by Dr. Shippen; Edit Delete

s n/a (248) 377-0600 3100 Cross Creek Parkway Auburn Hills, MI

48326 North Oakland Internists, P.C. Family Medicine (248) 377-0606 Edit Delete

West Edit Delete

Ilya Hulinsky (203) 374-0240 728 Post Road East Westport, CT 06880

Endocrinilogy, Phd

=========================================================================

Landa jlandamd@... 888.799.5821 175 Lookout Place, Suite

201 Maitland, FL, 32751 Anti-Aging, Hormone Replacement Edit Delete

Vanderscoff (952) 226-2600 4151 Willowwood St SE Prior Lake Fariview

Ridges Family Medicine (952) 226-2601 Edit Delete

Vanderscoff (952)226-2600 & #8206; 4151 Willowwood Street South East

Prior Lake, MN 55372 Fairview RidgeValley Clinic Family Practice (952)226-2601

Edit Delete

Vanderscoff (952)226-2600 & #8206; 4151 Willowwood Street South East

Prior Lake, MN 55372 Fairview RidgeValley Clinic Family Practice (952)226-2601

Edit Delete

Jill Felder 412-682-5680 532 South Aiken Avenue Pittsburgh, PA Diabetes,

Endocrinology & Metabolism, Internal Medicine, Nephrology Edit Delete

Crisler DO PLLC doctorjohn@... 1-517-485-4424 320-322 West

Ottawa Garden Level Lansing , Michigan 48933 Hormone Replacement Exclusively

for Men 1-815-301-2716 Edit Delete

Morley (314)577-8462 1402 S Grand Blvd Ste M238 Saint Louis, MO 63104 Slu

Care; St Louis Univ School Of Med Dept Of Internal Medicine Geriatric Medicine

(314)771-8575 Edit Delete

ph Olivieri 718-369-1900 313 43rd St Brooklyn, NY 11232 Edit Delete

ph M. Raffaele, MD contact@... 212-888-7074 30 Central Park

South New York, NY 10019 Anti-Aging Medicine Associates hormone replacement

therapy 212-888-7828 Edit Delete

Blevins 615-322-4752 Suite 2501 TVC Nashville, TN 37232-5100 Vanderbilt

Medical Group Endocrinology 615-343-4953 Edit Delete

P.K. Raja Natrajan pkraja@... 706-724-8878 903 15th Street Augusta,

GA http://www.members.aol.com/natrajan9/ Endocrinology treats men for andropause

and women for menopause - abnormal conditions 706-724-3796 Edit Delete

Desrosiers pdesrosiers@... (407) 650-7210 115 West Columbia

Street, Suite B Orlando Nemours Children's Pediatric Endocrinology (407)

650-7211 Edit Delete

R. Don Gambrell, Jr. (706) 724-8878 903 15th Street Augusta, GA 30910

Reproductive Endocrinologists, PC Hormone Replacement Therapy FAX (706) 724-3796

Edit Delete

Ramon Scruggs office@... (714)953-7169 217 El Camino Real, Suite D

Tustin New Hope Medical Center Hormone Replacement Therapy Edit Delete

Romeo no, M.D. (831) 375-6655 395 Del Monte Ctr #305 Monterey, CA 93940

262 Eldorado Street #100 physician, psychiatrist,Behavioral Neuroendocrinology

and Immunology (831) 626-9094 fax Edit Delete

V. Livesey, MD contact@... 212-888-7074 30 Central Park

South New York, NY 10019 Anti-Aging Medicine Associates hormone replacement

therapy 212-888-7828 Edit Delete

Tipu Sultan ehacstl@... (314)921- 5600 11585 W Florissant Ave

Florissant, MO 63033-6740 Environmental Health and Allergy Center Thyroid &

Testosterone Replacement Therapy (314)921 - 8273 Edit Delete

West Christiana Hospital Medical Arts Pavillion Newark, DE

Endocrinology Edit Delete

Walter W. Schwartz DO 610-604-4800 471 Baltimore Pike Sprinfield, PA 19064

Internal medicine/cardiology, hormone therapy 610-604-4815 Edit Delete

Willie Teo Ong MD FACE 956-548-0077 844 Central Blvd 370 Brownsville Texas

78520 Professional Tower Brownsville Medical Center Eudocrinology Diabetes

Metabolism Internal Medicine 956-548-2312 Edit Delete

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: chrisdl2008 <chrisdl2008@...>

> Subject: Re: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

>

> Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 7:39 AM

>

> Clicking on the link below for database of TRT doc's gives

> the folllowing error message:

>

> Records Records Help

>

> Sorry. The table you requested does not exist in the

> Database

>

> View tables list

>

> > > >

> > > > > From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > Subject: lack of sleep

> or low T, which came first

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 5:54

> PM

> > > > > I've seen a lot of things that say

> > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > like a baby before I started noticing

> the low T symptoms.

> > > > > Eventually, after I get my hormones

> squared away, will my

> > > > > sleep improve? From what I've read,

> complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > happens at night.

> > > > >

> > > > > When I started noticing the low T stuff

> and starting to not

> > > > > sleep, I started using melatonin. It

> seemed to help

> > > > > somewhat. Then I read that melatonin

> being a hormone that is

> > > > > produced is not good for testosterone

> in a high amount. Is

> > > > > this true?

> > > > >

> > > > > I'd give almost anything for a good

> nights sleep. So would

> > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've read

> that some

> > > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

August 20, 2009

>

> There has been a lot of talk here about finding a good doctor. I have seen

twelve doctors in the past fourteen months. Two of them were endos and two were

uros. Most of them were recommended to me as doctors who delt with male hormone

issues. When I went to see them, almost all of them were clueless on hormone

issues. Only two really did any thing. One prescribed arimidex for my high E2

figuring that would bring up my testosterone levels. That helped some, but I

still have low normal T levels. One of the endos I saw said he would give me

whatever wanted. The problem is I really don't know what I need and I want a

doctor who doesn't have to be told what to do.

Hi,

an arimidex only thereapy is a reasonable approach and works for some.

I'd say get the allthingsmale printout from the files section and take it to the

one that said he'd give you whatever you wanted.

after all the docs and undoubtedly lots of tests I'm guessing they didn't find

anything terminal...

if you have an aversion to giving yourself a few shots a week go for the gels...

I have an aversion to sticky gels/creams on me so I do the shots.

both can work.

they guy who said he'd write you whatever you needed seems like the best

choice... he'll at least give you what you need/want and isn't combative... even

if you're the one doing the research.

August 20, 2009

Thanks Phil

But not any UK doc's listed right? (US only)

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > Subject: lack of sleep

> > or low T, which came first

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 5:54

> > PM

> > > > > > I've seen a lot of things that say

> > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > like a baby before I started noticing

> > the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > Eventually, after I get my hormones

> > squared away, will my

> > > > > > sleep improve? From what I've read,

> > complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When I started noticing the low T stuff

> > and starting to not

> > > > > > sleep, I started using melatonin. It

> > seemed to help

> > > > > > somewhat. Then I read that melatonin

> > being a hormone that is

> > > > > > produced is not good for testosterone

> > in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > this true?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'd give almost anything for a good

> > nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause. I've read

> > that some

> > > > > > testosterone might do her good.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

August 20, 2009

I am sorry was not paying att. to your post here is a list of DO's Dr. you

should find out in this link.

General Osteopathic Council

Find an osteopath in almost any country

http://www.osteopathy.org.uk/find_osteo/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: chrisdl2008 <chrisdl2008@...>

> Subject: Re: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

>

> Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 4:34 PM

> Thanks Phil

>

> But not any UK doc's listed right? (US only)

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > Subject: lack

> of sleep

> > > or low T, which came first

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18,

> 2009, 5:54

> > > PM

> > > > > > > I've seen a lot of things

> that say

> > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > like a baby before I started

> noticing

> > > the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > Eventually, after I get my

> hormones

> > > squared away, will my

> > > > > > > sleep improve? From what I've

> read,

> > > complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When I started noticing the

> low T stuff

> > > and starting to not

> > > > > > > sleep, I started using

> melatonin. It

> > > seemed to help

> > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read that

> melatonin

> > > being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > produced is not good for

> testosterone

> > > in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'd give almost anything for

> a good

> > > nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause.

> I've read

> > > that some

> > > > > > > testosterone might do her

> good.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

August 20, 2009

I speculate that worsened quality of sleep generally precedes low T, from

personal experience and slight amount of research. However, certain conditions

that can worsen sleep quality may result from low T, such as those conditions

which affect the lungs and heart.

Sleep apnea has been mentioned; chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) may

also cause difficulty sleeping as a result of breathing issues. If you find

yourself getting congested as a result of lying down or having trouble breathing

while lying down, out of breath from minimal exertion, making non-productive

coughs, and generally having trouble breathing deeply, you should definitely

schedule a visit to rule out COPD.

In his book, " Testosterone Deficiency: The Hidden Disease " , Dr. Barry Gordon

mentions a few anecdotal accounts of patients with COPD who improved when given

testosterone. Small studies echo that observation. Testosterone can strengthen

the lungs and heart such that symptoms are alleviated and one can exert oneself

without feeling winded. And perhaps sleep better, too.

As for melatonin, it seems that lower dosages are generally as effective as

higher dosages (i.e. 300 mcg may work just as well as 3 mg). Not sure what

problem high melatonin would pose to testosterone, though melatonin does lower

cortisol, so it might cause problems like excessive grogginess if too high of a

dose or an extended release dose was taken. Neither 1 mg nor 2 mg of melatonin

helped me sleep. L-Tryptophan, which converts to both serotonin and melatonin,

works for me.

~Xian

>

> I've seen a lot of things that say lack of sleep lowers a guys testosterone. I

used to sleep like a baby before I started noticing the low T symptoms.

Eventually, after I get my hormones squared away, will my sleep improve? From

what I've read, complex hormonal stuff happens at night.

>

> When I started noticing the low T stuff and starting to not sleep, I started

using melatonin. It seemed to help somewhat. Then I read that melatonin being a

hormone that is produced is not good for testosterone in a high amount. Is this

true?

>

> I'd give almost anything for a good nights sleep. So would my wife, she's

postmenopause. I've read that some testosterone might do her good.

>

> Thanks

>

August 21, 2009

Hi,

there's a new T clinic here in Memphis that is showing SOME promise.

though they are a bit of a rip-off...

the best you can hope for from them is a dose of cypionate once every 10-14

days...

and you have to go there to get the shots...

and for this it's 250$/month charged to your insurance.

to me after you're pretty dialed in other than biannual blood work to make sure

you're still in range you should just be able to get your scripts and do your

own injections... there really isn't a need for a (billable) doctor's

appointment, a (billable) procedure (the 1 minute injection), a new appointment

for 10 days later (about 3 days after I find acceptable), etc.

but they're doing a lot of advertising and it will undoubtedly make the TRT

concept more acceptable.

it's like the ortho I was seeing for a while (and how I found out I had low T

via a blood test when I checked off a few " extra " boxes on the sheet for the

labwork.... I added total test, free test, and estradiol) who'd trim some

calluses on my foot (less than 2 minutes... I now do it myself with a single

edged razor blade) and who charged my insurance for " surgery " to the tune of

700$/visit.

August 21, 2009

Phil

You have given me link for osteopath's not endocrinologists? or am I missing

something?

Osteopath's have nothing to do with low T symptoms as far as I'm aware...

Osteopaths aim to help to reduce the symptoms and improve the health and quality

of life of the patient by:

identifying imbalances within the musculoskeletal system;

facilitating the body's ability to heal itself through stretching, massage, deep

massage and gentle manipulation;

offering added exercise and health advice

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > Subject: lack

> > of sleep

> > > > or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 18,

> > 2009, 5:54

> > > > PM

> > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of things

> > that say

> > > > > > > > lack of sleep lowers a guys

> > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > like a baby before I started

> > noticing

> > > > the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > Eventually, after I get my

> > hormones

> > > > squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > sleep improve? From what I've

> > read,

> > > > complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When I started noticing the

> > low T stuff

> > > > and starting to not

> > > > > > > > sleep, I started using

> > melatonin. It

> > > > seemed to help

> > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I read that

> > melatonin

> > > > being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > produced is not good for

> > testosterone

> > > > in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'd give almost anything for

> > a good

> > > > nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > my wife, she's postmenopause.

> > I've read

> > > > that some

> > > > > > > > testosterone might do her

> > good.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

August 21, 2009

Osteopath's here in the USA are some of the best Dr.'s for low testosterone and

bad Adreanls even Thyroid. The Endo's here are use less for them so my thinking

was it's the same every where.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: chrisdl2008 <chrisdl2008@...>

> Subject: Re: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

>

> Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 10:04 AM

> Phil

>

> You have given me link for osteopath's not

> endocrinologists? or am I missing something?

>

> Osteopath's have nothing to do with low T symptoms as far

> as I'm aware...

>

> Osteopaths aim to help to reduce the symptoms and improve

> the health and quality of life of the patient by:

>

> identifying imbalances within the musculoskeletal system;

> facilitating the body's ability to heal itself through

> stretching, massage, deep massage and gentle manipulation;

> offering added exercise and health advice

>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > Subject:

> lack

> > > of sleep

> > > > > or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday,

> August 18,

> > > 2009, 5:54

> > > > > PM

> > > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> things

> > > that say

> > > > > > > > > lack of sleep

> lowers a guys

> > > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > like a baby before

> I started

> > > noticing

> > > > > the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > Eventually, after I

> get my

> > > hormones

> > > > > squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > sleep improve? From

> what I've

> > > read,

> > > > > complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When I started

> noticing the

> > > low T stuff

> > > > > and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > sleep, I started

> using

> > > melatonin. It

> > > > > seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I

> read that

> > > melatonin

> > > > > being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > produced is not

> good for

> > > testosterone

> > > > > in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'd give almost

> anything for

> > > a good

> > > > > nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> postmenopause.

> > > I've read

> > > > > that some

> > > > > > > > > testosterone might

> do her

> > > good.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ã‚Â Ã‚Â mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

August 21, 2009

Just a word of caution in my humble opionion. I've been to 3 doctors about my

low T symptoms. The 1st doc was a DO. He told me I was depressed and wanted to

put me on antidepressants. Not all DO's are good. Find the good one.

From now on, I will drop a doctor pretty quickly if I don't get a good feeling

about his care right off the bat. I'm in line to see a new uro for my cancer

follow up and another doc about my low T in the next month or so. I will give

both of them the benefit of the doubt, and place my full faith in them until

they prove I shouldn't.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > Subject:

> > lack

> > > > of sleep

> > > > > > or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday,

> > August 18,

> > > > 2009, 5:54

> > > > > > PM

> > > > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> > things

> > > > that say

> > > > > > > > > > lack of sleep

> > lowers a guys

> > > > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > > like a baby before

> > I started

> > > > noticing

> > > > > > the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > Eventually, after I

> > get my

> > > > hormones

> > > > > > squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > > sleep improve? From

> > what I've

> > > > read,

> > > > > > complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When I started

> > noticing the

> > > > low T stuff

> > > > > > and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > > sleep, I started

> > using

> > > > melatonin. It

> > > > > > seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I

> > read that

> > > > melatonin

> > > > > > being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > > produced is not

> > good for

> > > > testosterone

> > > > > > in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I'd give almost

> > anything for

> > > > a good

> > > > > > nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> > postmenopause.

> > > > I've read

> > > > > > that some

> > > > > > > > > > testosterone might

> > do her

> > > > good.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > Links

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Ã‚Â Ã‚Â mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

August 21, 2009

virtuosa150

I'm guessing you don't know the cause of your low T then? or is it induced as a

result of cancer therapy?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > > Subject:

> > > lack

> > > > > of sleep

> > > > > > > or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday,

> > > August 18,

> > > > > 2009, 5:54

> > > > > > > PM

> > > > > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> > > things

> > > > > that say

> > > > > > > > > > > lack of sleep

> > > lowers a guys

> > > > > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > > > like a baby before

> > > I started

> > > > > noticing

> > > > > > > the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > > Eventually, after I

> > > get my

> > > > > hormones

> > > > > > > squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > > > sleep improve? From

> > > what I've

> > > > > read,

> > > > > > > complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When I started

> > > noticing the

> > > > > low T stuff

> > > > > > > and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > > > sleep, I started

> > > using

> > > > > melatonin. It

> > > > > > > seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I

> > > read that

> > > > > melatonin

> > > > > > > being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > > > produced is not

> > > good for

> > > > > testosterone

> > > > > > > in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I'd give almost

> > > anything for

> > > > > a good

> > > > > > > nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> > > postmenopause.

> > > > > I've read

> > > > > > > that some

> > > > > > > > > > > testosterone might

> > > do her

> > > > > good.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Links

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ã‚Â Ã‚Â

mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

August 21, 2009

yep and it's a shame and I tell people to call and ask questions before seeing

the Dr. 4 x's I have done this and when I seen him he was use less I think it's

a shame they tell there office people to lie. And I told them so and told them

not to send me a bill and they did not.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@...>

> Subject: Re: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

>

> Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 11:41 AM

> Just a word of caution in my humble

> opionion. I've been to 3 doctors about my low T symptoms.

> The 1st doc was a DO. He told me I was depressed and wanted

> to put me on antidepressants. Not all DO's are good. Find

> the good one.

>

> From now on, I will drop a doctor pretty quickly if I don't

> get a good feeling about his care right off the bat. I'm in

> line to see a new uro for my cancer follow up and another

> doc about my low T in the next month or so. I will give both

> of them the benefit of the doubt, and place my full faith in

> them until they prove I shouldn't.

>

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > From:

> virtuosa150

> > > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > > Subject:

> > > lack

> > > > > of sleep

> > > > > > > or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> Tuesday,

> > > August 18,

> > > > > 2009, 5:54

> > > > > > > PM

> > > > > > > > > > > I've seen

> a lot of

> > > things

> > > > > that say

> > > > > > > > > > > lack of

> sleep

> > > lowers a guys

> > > > > > > testosterone. I used to

> sleep

> > > > > > > > > > > like a

> baby before

> > > I started

> > > > > noticing

> > > > > > > the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> Eventually, after I

> > > get my

> > > > > hormones

> > > > > > > squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > > > sleep

> improve? From

> > > what I've

> > > > > read,

> > > > > > > complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > > > happens

> at night.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When I

> started

> > > noticing the

> > > > > low T stuff

> > > > > > > and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > > > sleep, I

> started

> > > using

> > > > > melatonin. It

> > > > > > > seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > > somewhat.

> Then I

> > > read that

> > > > > melatonin

> > > > > > > being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > > > produced

> is not

> > > good for

> > > > > testosterone

> > > > > > > in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > > > this

> true?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I'd give

> almost

> > > anything for

> > > > > a good

> > > > > > > nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > > > my wife,

> she's

> > > postmenopause.

> > > > > I've read

> > > > > > > that some

> > > > > > > > > > >

> testosterone might

> > > do her

> > > > > good.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > > >

> Groups

> > > Links

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

> Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

August 21, 2009

I had testicular cancer in 2002. I felt ok until around 2005 when I started to

notice some ED. Then about 2 yrs. ago I stated noticing a lot more low T

symptoms. I'm now 49, and am still in pretty good shape, although I have no

stamina or libido. Back in 2005 I thought the ED was the start me shifting to

the next phase in my life. It never struck me that my T was dipping. Probably

most guys with ED don't realize this.

You would think that TRT would be a no brainer to a guy with one nut. Doctors

are clueless. This is my struggle. Most guys with TC though are in the same boat

as me. I'm starting to think I have more going on because I've been having a lot

of bouts with hypoglycemis symptoms. This will be another slow process to

relief.

Sorry for my ramblings. I'll shut up now.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > From: virtuosa150

> > > > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject:

> > > > lack

> > > > > > of sleep

> > > > > > > > or low T, which came first

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday,

> > > > August 18,

> > > > > > 2009, 5:54

> > > > > > > > PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > I've seen a lot of

> > > > things

> > > > > > that say

> > > > > > > > > > > > lack of sleep

> > > > lowers a guys

> > > > > > > > testosterone. I used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > > > > like a baby before

> > > > I started

> > > > > > noticing

> > > > > > > > the low T symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Eventually, after I

> > > > get my

> > > > > > hormones

> > > > > > > > squared away, will my

> > > > > > > > > > > > sleep improve? From

> > > > what I've

> > > > > > read,

> > > > > > > > complex hormonal stuff

> > > > > > > > > > > > happens at night.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > When I started

> > > > noticing the

> > > > > > low T stuff

> > > > > > > > and starting to not

> > > > > > > > > > > > sleep, I started

> > > > using

> > > > > > melatonin. It

> > > > > > > > seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > > > somewhat. Then I

> > > > read that

> > > > > > melatonin

> > > > > > > > being a hormone that is

> > > > > > > > > > > > produced is not

> > > > good for

> > > > > > testosterone

> > > > > > > > in a high amount. Is

> > > > > > > > > > > > this true?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I'd give almost

> > > > anything for

> > > > > > a good

> > > > > > > > nights sleep. So would

> > > > > > > > > > > > my wife, she's

> > > > postmenopause.

> > > > > > I've read

> > > > > > > > that some

> > > > > > > > > > > > testosterone might

> > > > do her

> > > > > > good.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > Links

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ã‚Â Ã‚Â

mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

August 21, 2009

Don't be Sorry for ramblings this is what this forum is for and if your having

feelings of low sugar do test your morning fasting Cortisol levels you might

have Adrenal Fatiuge most men with low T for a long time the stress of this over

works there Adrenals and they need to treat them to feel better. If you levels

are below 15 get a 4x's in a day saliva test to see what stage your at.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: virtuosa150 <virtuosa150@...>

> Subject: Re: lack of sleep or low T, which came first

>

> Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 5:33 PM

> I had testicular cancer in 2002. I

> felt ok until around 2005 when I started to notice some ED.

> Then about 2 yrs. ago I stated noticing a lot more low T

> symptoms. I'm now 49, and am still in pretty good shape,

> although I have no stamina or libido. Back in 2005 I thought

> the ED was the start me shifting to the next phase in my

> life. It never struck me that my T was dipping. Probably

> most guys with ED don't realize this.

>

> You would think that TRT would be a no brainer to a guy

> with one nut. Doctors are clueless. This is my struggle.

> Most guys with TC though are in the same boat as me. I'm

> starting to think I have more going on because I've been

> having a lot of bouts with hypoglycemis symptoms. This will

> be another slow process to relief.

>

> Sorry for my ramblings. I'll shut up now.

>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> From: virtuosa150

> > > > > > > <virtuosa150@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Subject:

> > > > > lack

> > > > > > > of sleep

> > > > > > > > > or low T, which

> came first

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Date: Tuesday,

> > > > > August 18,

> > > > > > > 2009, 5:54

> > > > > > > > > PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> I've seen a lot of

> > > > > things

> > > > > > > that say

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> lack of sleep

> > > > > lowers a guys

> > > > > > > > > testosterone. I

> used to sleep

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> like a baby before

> > > > > I started

> > > > > > > noticing

> > > > > > > > > the low T

> symptoms.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Eventually, after I

> > > > > get my

> > > > > > > hormones

> > > > > > > > > squared away, will

> my

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> sleep improve? From

> > > > > what I've

> > > > > > > read,

> > > > > > > > > complex hormonal

> stuff

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> happens at night.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> When I started

> > > > > noticing the

> > > > > > > low T stuff

> > > > > > > > > and starting to

> not

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> sleep, I started

> > > > > using

> > > > > > > melatonin. It

> > > > > > > > > seemed to help

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> somewhat. Then I

> > > > > read that

> > > > > > > melatonin

> > > > > > > > > being a hormone

> that is

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> produced is not

> > > > > good for

> > > > > > > testosterone

> > > > > > > > > in a high amount.

> Is

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> this true?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> I'd give almost

> > > > > anything for

> > > > > > > a good

> > > > > > > > > nights sleep. So

> would

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> my wife, she's

> > > > > postmenopause.

> > > > > > > I've read

> > > > > > > > > that some

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> testosterone might

> > > > > do her

> > > > > > > good.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > Links

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

> mailto: -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

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