new member with a lot of questions

[Guest guest]

Hi i a 35 year old with low testosterone. All started about a year ago, my

adrenals crashed and i was put on prednisolone and hydrocortisone, totalling

30mgs day of HC, was upto 35 but found after some time that was too much. My

testosterone labs have fairly tanked out, at the start i had a free testo of

about 50 (60-130) but my total testo was around 29 (10-33) and my estradial was

slightly lower at about 27 (10-33). I was put on DHEA which did'nt really do

anything to the labs, so i was placed on testogel and i would feel everytime i

applied it within a hour i would have severe low testo symptoms come on, mainly

a numb dead old fella, i persisted with it for a few months hoping that over

time things would improve on it but it got to me in the end and i went and had

another blood test done. Well i was'nt wrong about it not working my labs are

now Free Testo 39 on the same range and total at 15 same ranges, also my LH and

FSH actually slightly went up from 4 and 3 ranges (3-20) to 6 and 4. So how is

it that testogel can do this? at one point i decided to really test it out and

put 4 packs on in one day, to my horror it went even worse again, it seems no

matter how much i use its just not ever gonna work. I am also thyroidless after

RAI for graves disease, are now on armour after a crap run on synthroid, taking

3.5 grains. My thyroid Labs are as of a few weeks ago TSH 0.05 ( .40-4.00 ) Free

t4 10 (10-20) free t3 6.7 ( 2.8-6.8) I still dont feel real well even on 3.5

grains but when i try to push past this i get pretty severe hyper symptoms so i

just stick to that dose. I'm seeing the Urologist again in a few weeks time and

my GP is now wanting to do injections. My question is this, will injections do

the same thing that the gel seems to do or is it different? Oh i should mention

my SHBG actually dropped to 27 ( 13-71 ) was 35 before the gel, but i am using

using nettle root extract so it could be that that made it drop abit. What tests

do i need now? what are peoples experiences with injected testo? and would it be

worth my while trying out Dim, if so how mucy? does anyone still use DHEA or is

this really no good? sorry for all the questions but i seem to be getting

nowhere with all this, been at it now for a year and have no improvments at all.

[Guest guest]

For supporting your adrenals Pediapred (Medrol) is good if you can't stay levels

for up to 4 hrs. on Hydrocortisone you should not do both one or the other. I

just had Heart by pass sugary and I am Hypopituitary needing to treat my low

Testosterone, Cortisol, Thyroid, Iron and Vit. - D. So when I went under the

knife I made sure they Red Lined my Chart that I suffer from Adrenal

Insufficiency so they could give me high shots of Medrol so I would live through

the sugary. Read this link so you know what you need to do.

http://www.cushings-help.com/911.htm

I see you live in Australia so with out the units in your labs it's hard for me

to convert them into my units so I can tell whats going one.

You don't need more Armour your Free T3 is great I can't go this high I get

hyper but I do 4 grains of armour. You are not doing good on the gels because

of your thyroid we tend to get a thicker skin do to the low thyroid and the gels

and creams don't get through your skin so your levels drop. Also your DHT and

Estradiol still can go up very high on gels this is all that is going up from

them. Same thing was happening to me on them.

When you were first tested for low testosterone did the Dr.'s check to see why

your so low are your Primary meaning your testis don't work well of are you

Secondary like me your pituitary is not working well.

If your LH went up on the gels sounds to me like you are Primary.

Still I feel you need to go back on shots and start with Testosterone Cypionate

doing 100 mgs a week and I feel your Estradiol is to high your range being 10 to

33 and your at 27 you might even be higher after the gels. I would say you need

to be at about 15 or what every is = to my units of 20 pg/ml this is this best

level for most men. At this level we get are sex life back.

Do you get night time and morning wood if not I am thinking your estradiol is to

high and making you feel like this. Estradiol when to high takes away all the

good the Testosterone meds do.

Your Free Testosterone is only 2% of all the testosterone in your body and with

your SHBG coming down less Testosterone is bound up so this is good.

I am not sure what kind of DIM you can get but I do know some of the Web sites

that sell it will ship any where. Here are some links.

http://www.myvitanet.com/indolplex-with-dim-60-tab-phytopharmica.html

http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\

Code=156497

http://organicpharmacy.org/products/Indolplex.With.DIM/SKU:PP15336

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

If you can't find Indloplex/DIM in your area try the above sites to see if they

ship to your area. If you can't get your Dr. to give you arimidex this works

the best we all here use this. I keep my estradiol in check taking about 1/4 of

a 1 mg. pill every 2 to 3 days. Retest your Estradiol and post it to me and if

your going to use DIM or Arimidex I will tell you how to take it.

Here are some links I have about Adreanls also have you been having a hard time

with the heat of summer there is a problems some of us get with bad adrenals and

you should have this checked. Read the following link and get your Aldosterone

and Renin levels checked you might need to go on a med called Florinef .125mgs.

Also when you get up put a tsp full of good Sea Salt in a glass of water and

drink this down see if it makes you feel better. If it does and it dose not

last all day do this 3x's a day.

Here are some links about adrenal problems one we did is a FAQ's in this are

links and it's full of info like stress dosing in case you get over stressed.

It's in this link with other links.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=256

I do feel your Estradiol is your big problem so do test it again and get back to

me.

http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/aldosterone/test.html

For the best info about treating low Testosterone go to

www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and the HCG update.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Shaun <shaun.repacholi@...>

> Subject: new member with a lot of questions

>

> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 5:53 AM

> Hi i a 35 year old with low

> testosterone. All started about a year ago, my adrenals

> crashed and i was put on prednisolone and hydrocortisone,

> totalling 30mgs day of HC, was upto 35 but found after some

> time that was too much. My testosterone labs have fairly

> tanked out, at the start i had a free testo of about 50

> (60-130) but my total testo was around 29 (10-33) and my

> estradial was slightly lower at about 27 (10-33). I was put

> on DHEA which did'nt really do anything to the labs, so i

> was placed on testogel and i would feel everytime i applied

> it within a hour i would have severe low testo symptoms come

> on, mainly a numb dead old fella, i persisted with it for a

> few months hoping that over time things would improve on it

> but it got to me in the end and i went and had another blood

> test done. Well i was'nt wrong about it not working my labs

> are now Free Testo 39 on the same range and total at 15 same

> ranges, also my LH and FSH actually slightly went up from 4

> and 3 ranges (3-20) to 6 and 4. So how is it that testogel

> can do this? at one point i decided to really test it out

> and put 4 packs on in one day, to my horror it went even

> worse again, it seems no matter how much i use its just not

> ever gonna work. I am also thyroidless after RAI for graves

> disease, are now on armour after a crap run on synthroid,

> taking 3.5 grains. My thyroid Labs are as of a few weeks ago

> TSH 0.05 ( .40-4.00 ) Free t4 10 (10-20) free t3 6.7 (

> 2.8-6.8) I still dont feel real well even on 3.5 grains but

> when i try to push past this i get pretty severe hyper

> symptoms so i just stick to that dose. I'm seeing the

> Urologist again in a few weeks time and my GP is now wanting

> to do injections. My question is this, will injections do

> the same thing that the gel seems to do or is it different?

> Oh i should mention my SHBG actually dropped to 27 ( 13-71 )

> was 35 before the gel, but i am using using nettle root

> extract so it could be that that made it drop abit. What

> tests do i need now? what are peoples experiences with

> injected testo? and would it be worth my while trying out

> Dim, if so how mucy? does anyone still use DHEA or is this

> really no good? sorry for all the questions but i seem to be

> getting nowhere with all this, been at it now for a year and

> have no improvments at all.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi i a 35 year old with low testosterone. All started about a year ago, my

adrenals crashed and i was put on prednisolone and hydrocortisone, totalling

30mgs day of HC, was upto 35 but found after some time that was too much. My

testosterone labs have fairly tanked out, at the start i had a free testo of

about 50 (60-130) but my total testo was around 29 (10-33) and my estradial was

slightly lower at about 27 (10-33). I was put on DHEA which did'nt really do

anything to the labs, so i was placed on testogel and i would feel everytime i

applied it within a hour i would have severe low testo symptoms come on, mainly

a numb dead old fella, i persisted with it for a few months hoping that over

time things would improve on it but it got to me in the end and i went and had

another blood test done. Well i was'nt wrong about it not working my labs are

now Free Testo 39 on the same range and total at 15 same ranges, also my LH and

FSH actually slightly went up from 4 and 3 ranges (3-20) to 6 and 4. So how is

it that testogel can do this? at one point i decided to really test it out and

put 4 packs on in one day, to my horror it went even worse again, it seems no

matter how much i use its just not ever gonna work. I am also thyroidless after

RAI for graves disease, are now on armour after a crap run on synthroid, taking

3.5 grains. My thyroid Labs are as of a few weeks ago TSH 0.05 ( .40-4.00 ) Free

t4 10 (10-20) free t3 6.7 ( 2.8-6.8) I still dont feel real well even on 3.5

grains but when i try to push past this i get pretty severe hyper symptoms so i

just stick to that dose. I'm seeing the Urologist again in a few weeks time and

my GP is now wanting to do injections. My question is this, will injections do

the same thing that the gel seems to do or is it different? Oh i should mention

my SHBG actually dropped to 27 ( 13-71 ) was 35 before the gel, but i am using

using nettle root extract so it could be that that made it drop abit. What tests

do i need now? what are peoples experiences with injected testo? and would it be

worth my while trying out Dim, if so how mucy? does anyone still use DHEA or is

this really no good? sorry for all the questions but i seem to be getting

nowhere with all this, been at it now for a year and have no improvments at all.

>

Hi,

I take 50 mg of DHEA/day and 200mg dim, morning and night I get from

http://www.youngagain.com/magento/ . seems to work for me. Have you had your

E2(sensitive assay) checked? That is the most debilitating thing for me so i am

on Arimidex for that which the DIM works with.

Good luck,

Jim

[Guest guest]

Hi thanks for your great response. I have had Aldosterone and Renin tested, my

Aldosterone was in the normal range, about 1/3 of the way up but Renin was

slightly elevated, i was told from Val in adrenals with those labs florinef

would be too much and that just salt would do fine, so i have been doing this

and that seems to be ok. I dont get dizzyness, low BP or faintness when

standing, also i live here in the tropics in Australia and i handle the heat

quiet well, i dont handle the cold to well which is one of the reasons i moved

up here in the first place. Also before i was started on treatment my

intergrative prac tested a whole bunch of pituitary hormones and found they all

came back into normal ranges and concluded i was'nt secondary, but like you said

my LH and FSH went up on the gels. No i dont get morning wood not at all, i

rarely even get wood at all, especially seems to be at its worst at night time.

I dont think we got Medrol here in Australia, i seen others on the boards going

on about it but all we got here is Prednisone, Prednisolone, Hydrocortisone and

Methylprednisolone. I tried all HC and found it just does'nt work on me, burn

through it too fast, does'nt seem to support me well enough, but i also found

all prednisolone to be abit too strong and also too slow acting in the morning

to support the armour, so i take a small dose of HC and this has been working

really well, if i had to choose which one i was gonna drop to stay on one i

would definetly drop HC. My iron levels are pretty good Ferritin at 3/4s up on

the normal range. THanks for explaining that about the thick skin, yes i think

that could be a good reason why the gel was a failure, shots definetly sound

like a good solution to me. I will ask my one of the drs i see to do a estradiol

test again and get back to you with the result, the Dim i was going to buy was

just one from Source Naturals from Iherb, is this one no good? i do a bit of

shopping at iherb so i can save on postage buying it there. Also is Crysin any

good as a estrogen blocker? Thanks again for the reply. Shaun.

[Guest guest]

Val helped me when I first found out I had low Cortisol and Thyroid problems so

if what your doing is fine with her she is the best and knows more about this

then I do. 

Now all you need to do is go back on shots and get something to keep your

Estradiol down I am sure this will do the trick.

As for Source Naturals DIM never tried this but you can try it take it with some

Olive oil this keeps it from getting killed in your stomach.

See if you get night time and morning wood in about 2 weeks I would start with

the higher dose when you get wood and it stops later this means your going down

to low so stop the DIM until wood comes back then go back on it but do less keep

doing this until you find the right dose. Still E2 changes a lot so if your

feel your getting sore and hard nipples or feeling panic feels then your going

to high again so I use my wood and labs to keep this in check. Also get some

TMG and take this at bed time this helps your liver wash out the E's that get

converted from Estradiol.

Taking this will also help you sleep better some of it turns into SamE.

http://www.myvitanet.com/tmgtr7560tas.html

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Shaun Repacholi <shaun.repacholi@...>

> Subject: Re: new member with a lot of questions

>

> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:23 PM

> Hi thanks for your great response. I

> have had Aldosterone and Renin tested, my Aldosterone was in

> the normal range, about 1/3 of the way up but Renin was

> slightly elevated, i was told from Val in adrenals with

> those labs florinef would be too much and that just salt

> would do fine, so i have been doing this and that seems to

> be ok. I dont get dizzyness, low BP or faintness when

> standing, also i live here in the tropics in Australia and i

> handle the heat quiet well, i dont handle the cold to well

> which is one of the reasons i moved up here in the first

> place. Also before i was started on treatment my

> intergrative prac tested a whole bunch of pituitary hormones

> and found they all came back into normal ranges and

> concluded i was'nt secondary, but like you said my LH and

> FSH went up on the gels. No i dont get morning wood not at

> all, i rarely even get wood at all, especially seems to be

> at its worst at night time. I dont think we got Medrol here

> in Australia, i seen others on the boards going on about it

> but all we got here is Prednisone, Prednisolone,

> Hydrocortisone and Methylprednisolone. I tried all HC and

> found it just does'nt work on me, burn through it too fast,

> does'nt seem to support me well enough, but i also found all

> prednisolone to be abit too strong and also too slow acting

> in the morning to support the armour, so i take a small dose

> of HC and this has been working really well, if i had to

> choose which one i was gonna drop to stay on one i would

> definetly drop HC. My iron levels are pretty good Ferritin

> at 3/4s up on the normal range. THanks for explaining that

> about the thick skin, yes i think that could be a good

> reason why the gel was a failure, shots definetly sound like

> a good solution to me. I will ask my one of the drs i see to

> do a estradiol test again and get back to you with the

> result, the Dim i was going to buy was just one from Source

> Naturals from Iherb, is this one no good? i do a bit of

> shopping at iherb so i can save on postage buying it there.

> Also is Crysin any good as a estrogen blocker? Thanks again

> for the reply. Shaun.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I was reading your story on Stop The Thyroid Madness Phill and noticed you were

put on a bunch of Anti Depressants. I take one called Remeron, mainly to lower

anxiety and to help me sleep, i also use 2.5mgs of valium each night, do these

in anyway impact on free testosterone? i have tried pretty much all the AD's all

the SSRIs gave me severe sexual dysfunction where as i dont really feel much of

a difference from Remeron. I dont know how on earth your ever supposed to get

off it though, if i try wean i get severe anxiety and complete insomnia so i

just keep on taking it, been on it for 3 years now. If i dont get good quality

sleep i am pretty wrecked the next day, severe anxiety and a bunch of low

cortisol symptoms. I am fairly debilitated from all this, am on disability here

and cant work, but compared to some of the other mates i have on the adrenal

board i feel pretty blessed. I actually have'nt tried the shots yet, when i

first went to the urologist he was thinking of them but when i mentioned the gel

he said yeah we'll try that first, just did'nt know much about it then, thought

it would be my answer. I see him again in 2 weeks so thats when i'll be getting

shots done. I got a question, how useful is Tribulus? i have been using this for

a bit but cant say for sure if its doing anything whatsoever for me, just

wondering what you think of it and if its a waste of money. THanks. Shaun.

[Guest guest]

When I first found out I have low Testosterone the Uro. I seen that found this

told me I need to get off all them meds they mess up ones TRT. I know it is

hard to get off them. I went in to a Re-Hab Hosp. to get off them. My BCBS

paid for it and I was on Remeron and it made me eat like a pig I gained 50 lgs.

I kept telling the Dr. this and he just kept telling give it time you will level

off and lose the weight.

I feel them Head Dr.'s are full of it after 5 yrs of this crap and not getting

any better. I was very happy to find out I am not nuts in my head and it's low

hormones. The hardest thing to come off is Valium you need to come down on this

very slow. I am still on Xanax but only .25 mgs at bed time. I use to have bad

Panic Attacks in the middle of the night. I later found out this was due to

high levels of Estradiol and testing this showed them very high.

I was shocked to see my Panic problems go away getting my Estradiol down and I

got back my sex life.

Stuff like Tribulus did nothing for me and I feel it's because you can't know

what your getting when you buy this stiff. It's very hard to find a good herb

or supplement there are just to many Crooks out there saying they have this or

that in there product and all your getting is junk. There has been a lot of

testing done on this and the findings are true you get most of the time junk.

If you can get all your hormones in check you should be able to come off them

meds. But do it with a Dr. and one at a time it might take you a yr. to do this

but you can.

I feel if you go on shots doing them your self ask your Dr. to show you how and

start with 100 mgs of Depo Testosterone shooting into your thigh.

I use a small 27g 1ml. x 1/2 " lg. it take a little time to get the oil out of

the vile so I just pull the plunger down all the way and hold it take about 2

min.'s to get my dose. If you go on shots get the testosterone at 200mgs./ml.

it come in a 10 ml. vile so a 100 mgs shot is smaller only .5 mls.

So try to get your Total T up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range after you

start your shots get tested in 8 weeks and do test your Estradiol each time.

Keeping your Estradiol will free up your Free T levels they will come way up.

Once you get leveled then little buy little you will feel better as your body un

does the damage done by having low T levels.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Shaun Repacholi <shaun.repacholi@...>

> Subject: Re: new member with a lot of questions

>

> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 9:26 PM

> I was reading your story on Stop The

> Thyroid Madness Phill and noticed you were put on a bunch of

> Anti Depressants. I take one called Remeron, mainly to lower

> anxiety and to help me sleep, i also use 2.5mgs of valium

> each night, do these in anyway impact on free testosterone?

> i have tried pretty much all the AD's all the SSRIs gave me

> severe sexual dysfunction where as i dont really feel much

> of a difference from Remeron. I dont know how on earth your

> ever supposed to get off it though, if i try wean i get

> severe anxiety and complete insomnia so i just keep on

> taking it, been on it for 3 years now. If i dont get good

> quality sleep i am pretty wrecked the next day, severe

> anxiety and a bunch of low cortisol symptoms. I am fairly

> debilitated from all this, am on disability here and cant

> work, but compared to some of the other mates i have on the

> adrenal board i feel pretty blessed. I actually have'nt

> tried the shots yet, when i first went to the urologist he

> was thinking of them but when i mentioned the gel he said

> yeah we'll try that first, just did'nt know much about it

> then, thought it would be my answer. I see him again in 2

> weeks so thats when i'll be getting shots done. I got a

> question, how useful is Tribulus? i have been using this for

> a bit but cant say for sure if its doing anything whatsoever

> for me, just wondering what you think of it and if its a

> waste of money. THanks. Shaun.

>

>