What do you think of this? estradiol level etc

[Guest guest]

Estradiol reference range goes upto a maximum of 150pmol/l.

My level is 423pmol/l.

I think this would mean it was around 115picograms in US terms.

I am trying to persuade my endocrinologist into treating.

I am also trying to get put on Growth Hormone therapy.

All this is VERY hard to impossible in the UK.

I pass the US test for GH deficiency which is a level of 5 or below

(not sure of the ref range) I am about 3.2, but in the UK they do not

treat GH deficiency and have renamed the condition Severe Growth

Hormone Deficency and are refusing to treat what they term as

boarderline levels. In UK terms/levels my GH via an insulin

tollerance test was 11.5 and they only treat 9 or below. I had a

baseline test 4 years prior and my result 4 years earlier was 44, so

my GH in UK terms has gone from 44 to 11.5 in 4 years. So there is

ongoing damage to the pituitary according to my endo, but they do not

know why.

I have osteoporosis in my spine and a bone density of minus 2.8 and

am only 34 years old. I have very bad back pain on a daily basis and

have to take pain killers round the clock.

Because of the very high estradiol and the lack of GH I am completely

exhausted and pretty much live sat in a chair like a 90 years old.

I have been suffring and trying to obtain correct treatment for over

4 years now and I have tried everything from private practicioners to

many differing endocrinologists in the UK.

My bone density went from minus 1.5 to minus 2.8 in two years and the

last BD test I had was about three years ago so I suspect now that

the bone density might be minus 3 or below.

Seem a crock doesn't it?

Opinions welcome...

Chris

[Guest guest]

I hope the forum doesn't throw me out for this one but if high school kids and

bodybuilders have such an availability to testosterone and other drugs........

 

I went to a bodybuilder web site and they were selling testosterone, Arimidex

and other drugs no prescription required.

 

Going outside a doctor's recommendations is not good advice. Then again, if

you're suffering and not getting help......

 

You'll have to decide that on on your own. Bodybuilders think they have

testosterone use down to a science but I wouldn't call what they do as science.

They may take 10 to 50 times normal dosing.

 

But there is a complete subculture out there dedicated to (illegal) testosterone

use. They probably get their stuff from China, Mexico or Eastern Europe. I doubt

it's well controlled. You won't reallly know what you're getting.

From: chis_az <chis_az@...>

Subject: What do you think of this? estradiol level etc

Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 11:54 AM

Estradiol reference range goes upto a maximum of 150pmol/l.

My level is 423pmol/l.

I think this would mean it was around 115picograms in US terms.

I am trying to persuade my endocrinologist into treating.

I am also trying to get put on Growth Hormone therapy.

All this is VERY hard to impossible in the UK.

I pass the US test for GH deficiency which is a level of 5 or below

(not sure of the ref range) I am about 3.2, but in the UK they do not

treat GH deficiency and have renamed the condition Severe Growth

Hormone Deficency and are refusing to treat what they term as

boarderline levels. In UK terms/levels my GH via an insulin

tollerance test was 11.5 and they only treat 9 or below. I had a

baseline test 4 years prior and my result 4 years earlier was 44, so

my GH in UK terms has gone from 44 to 11.5 in 4 years. So there is

ongoing damage to the pituitary according to my endo, but they do not

know why.

I have osteoporosis in my spine and a bone density of minus 2.8 and

am only 34 years old. I have very bad back pain on a daily basis and

have to take pain killers round the clock.

Because of the very high estradiol and the lack of GH I am completely

exhausted and pretty much live sat in a chair like a 90 years old.

I have been suffring and trying to obtain correct treatment for over

4 years now and I have tried everything from private practicioners to

many differing endocrinologists in the UK.

My bone density went from minus 1.5 to minus 2.8 in two years and the

last BD test I had was about three years ago so I suspect now that

the bone density might be minus 3 or below.

Seem a crock doesn't it?

Opinions welcome...

Chris

[Guest guest]

I know how you feel with your E2 this high mine was way over 90 when I

first did labs on it and my GH was very low after getting my E2 down on arimidex

doing .5mgs everyday all the things like Panic Attacks, Rashes,ED,loss of

libido,enlarged Prostate, fatigue and could not stand the heat of summer got

better. My Testosterone and GH levels went up I feel this happened because I

became more active and the Testosterone was not bound up anymore. I am told and

Dr. nco at MESO said this in a number of posts the last thing you treat is

GH. You can order LiquiDex from this site I know they send to the UK some of

the guys at MESO ordered it.

http://www.ag-guys.com/arimidex-vs-aromasin.htm

From what I here it works dam good and it's better then the pills because later

you would need to cut them in to 1/4 parts. This is liquid and you can tell

when your at the right levels when it comes down night time and morning wood

comes back so strong it wakes you up. It this stops then your going to low this

is when I would stop the Arimidex and when the wood came back I went back on it

but cut the dose keep doing this until I found what works. With labs this works

good to gage by your wood.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: chis_az <chis_az@...>

> Subject: What do you think of this? estradiol level etc

>

> Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 12:54 PM

> Estradiol reference range goes upto a maximum of 150pmol/l.

>

> My level is 423pmol/l.

>

> I think this would mean it was around 115picograms in US

> terms.

>

> I am trying to persuade my endocrinologist into treating.

>

> I am also trying to get put on Growth Hormone therapy.

>

> All this is VERY hard to impossible in the UK.

>

> I pass the US test for GH deficiency which is a level of 5

> or below

> (not sure of the ref range) I am about 3.2, but in the UK

> they do not

> treat GH deficiency and have renamed the condition Severe

> Growth

> Hormone Deficency and are refusing to treat what they term

> as

> boarderline levels. In UK terms/levels my GH via an

> insulin

> tollerance test was 11.5 and they only treat 9 or below. I

> had a

> baseline test 4 years prior and my result 4 years earlier

> was 44, so

> my GH in UK terms has gone from 44 to 11.5 in 4 years. So

> there is

> ongoing damage to the pituitary according to my endo, but

> they do not

> know why.

>

> I have osteoporosis in my spine and a bone density of minus

> 2.8 and

> am only 34 years old. I have very bad back pain on a daily

> basis and

> have to take pain killers round the clock.

>

> Because of the very high estradiol and the lack of GH I am

> completely

> exhausted and pretty much live sat in a chair like a 90

> years old.

>

> I have been suffring and trying to obtain correct treatment

> for over

> 4 years now and I have tried everything from private

> practicioners to

> many differing endocrinologists in the UK.

>

> My bone density went from minus 1.5 to minus 2.8 in two

> years and the

> last BD test I had was about three years ago so I suspect

> now that

> the bone density might be minus 3 or below.

>

> Seem a crock doesn't it?

>

> Opinions welcome...

>

> Chris

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey - you might consider making copies of 2 files that are in the files

section (Letrozole Study and Arimidex Study). Both are medical studies and

should carry some weight with your doctor on the benefits of reducing high E2.

 

Arkansas

From: chis_az <chis_az@...>

Subject: What do you think of this? estradiol level etc

Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 11:54 AM

Estradiol reference range goes upto a maximum of 150pmol/l.

My level is 423pmol/l.

I think this would mean it was around 115picograms in US terms.

I am trying to persuade my endocrinologist into treating.

I am also trying to get put on Growth Hormone therapy.

All this is VERY hard to impossible in the UK.

I pass the US test for GH deficiency which is a level of 5 or below

(not sure of the ref range) I am about 3.2, but in the UK they do not

treat GH deficiency and have renamed the condition Severe Growth

Hormone Deficency and are refusing to treat what they term as

boarderline levels. In UK terms/levels my GH via an insulin

tollerance test was 11.5 and they only treat 9 or below. I had a

baseline test 4 years prior and my result 4 years earlier was 44, so

my GH in UK terms has gone from 44 to 11.5 in 4 years. So there is

ongoing damage to the pituitary according to my endo, but they do not

know why.

I have osteoporosis in my spine and a bone density of minus 2.8 and

am only 34 years old. I have very bad back pain on a daily basis and

have to take pain killers round the clock.

Because of the very high estradiol and the lack of GH I am completely

exhausted and pretty much live sat in a chair like a 90 years old.

I have been suffring and trying to obtain correct treatment for over

4 years now and I have tried everything from private practicioners to

many differing endocrinologists in the UK.

My bone density went from minus 1.5 to minus 2.8 in two years and the

last BD test I had was about three years ago so I suspect now that

the bone density might be minus 3 or below.

Seem a crock doesn't it?

Opinions welcome...

Chris

[Guest guest]

I only made real progress with my doctor when I started showing the

documentation.

From: chis_az <chis_az (DOT) co.uk>

Subject: What do you think of this? estradiol level etc

Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 11:54 AM

Estradiol reference range goes upto a maximum of 150pmol/l.

My level is 423pmol/l.

I think this would mean it was around 115picograms in US terms.

I am trying to persuade my endocrinologist into treating.

I am also trying to get put on Growth Hormone therapy.

All this is VERY hard to impossible in the UK.

I pass the US test for GH deficiency which is a level of 5 or below

(not sure of the ref range) I am about 3.2, but in the UK they do not

treat GH deficiency and have renamed the condition Severe Growth

Hormone Deficency and are refusing to treat what they term as

boarderline levels. In UK terms/levels my GH via an insulin

tollerance test was 11.5 and they only treat 9 or below. I had a

baseline test 4 years prior and my result 4 years earlier was 44, so

my GH in UK terms has gone from 44 to 11.5 in 4 years. So there is

ongoing damage to the pituitary according to my endo, but they do not

know why.

I have osteoporosis in my spine and a bone density of minus 2.8 and

am only 34 years old. I have very bad back pain on a daily basis and

have to take pain killers round the clock.

Because of the very high estradiol and the lack of GH I am completely

exhausted and pretty much live sat in a chair like a 90 years old.

I have been suffring and trying to obtain correct treatment for over

4 years now and I have tried everything from private practicioners to

many differing endocrinologists in the UK.

My bone density went from minus 1.5 to minus 2.8 in two years and the

last BD test I had was about three years ago so I suspect now that

the bone density might be minus 3 or below.

Seem a crock doesn't it?

Opinions welcome...

Chris

[Guest guest]

>

> From: chis_az <chis_az (DOT) co.uk>

> Subject: What do you think of this? estradiol level

etc

>

> Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 11:54 AM

>

> Estradiol reference range goes upto a maximum of 150pmol/l.

>

> My level is 423pmol/l.

>

> I think this would mean it was around 115picograms in US terms.

>

> I am trying to persuade my endocrinologist into treating.

>

> I am also trying to get put on Growth Hormone therapy.

>

> All this is VERY hard to impossible in the UK.

>

> I pass the US test for GH deficiency which is a level of 5 or below

> (not sure of the ref range) I am about 3.2, but in the UK they do

not

> treat GH deficiency and have renamed the condition Severe Growth

> Hormone Deficency and are refusing to treat what they term as

> boarderline levels. In UK terms/levels my GH via an insulin

> tollerance test was 11.5 and they only treat 9 or below. I had a

> baseline test 4 years prior and my result 4 years earlier was 44,

so

> my GH in UK terms has gone from 44 to 11.5 in 4 years. So there is

> ongoing damage to the pituitary according to my endo, but they do

not

> know why.

>

> I have osteoporosis in my spine and a bone density of minus 2.8 and

> am only 34 years old. I have very bad back pain on a daily basis

and

> have to take pain killers round the clock.

>

> Because of the very high estradiol and the lack of GH I am

completely

> exhausted and pretty much live sat in a chair like a 90 years old.

>

> I have been suffring and trying to obtain correct treatment for

over

> 4 years now and I have tried everything from private practicioners

to

> many differing endocrinologists in the UK.

>

> My bone density went from minus 1.5 to minus 2.8 in two years and

the

> last BD test I had was about three years ago so I suspect now that

> the bone density might be minus 3 or below.

>

> Seem a crock doesn't it?

>

> Opinions welcome...

>

> Chris

>

>

[Guest guest]

I pray this all works out for you it's been a long time coming.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: chis_az <chis_az@...>

> Subject: Re: What do you think of this? estradiol level etc

>

> Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 10:35 AM

>

> >

> > From: chis_az <chis_az (DOT) co.uk>

> > Subject: What do you think of this?

> estradiol level

> etc

> >

> > Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 11:54 AM

> >

> > Estradiol reference range goes upto a maximum of

> 150pmol/l.

> >

> > My level is 423pmol/l.

> >

> > I think this would mean it was around 115picograms in

> US terms.

> >

> > I am trying to persuade my endocrinologist into

> treating.

> >

> > I am also trying to get put on Growth Hormone therapy.

> >

> > All this is VERY hard to impossible in the UK.

> >

> > I pass the US test for GH deficiency which is a level

> of 5 or below

> > (not sure of the ref range) I am about 3.2, but in the

> UK they do

> not

> > treat GH deficiency and have renamed the condition

> Severe Growth

> > Hormone Deficency and are refusing to treat what they

> term as

> > boarderline levels. In UK terms/levels my GH via an

> insulin

> > tollerance test was 11.5 and they only treat 9 or

> below. I had a

> > baseline test 4 years prior and my result 4 years

> earlier was 44,

> so

> > my GH in UK terms has gone from 44 to 11.5 in 4 years.

> So there is

> > ongoing damage to the pituitary according to my endo,

> but they do

> not

> > know why.

> >

> > I have osteoporosis in my spine and a bone density of

> minus 2.8 and

> > am only 34 years old. I have very bad back pain on a

> daily basis

> and

> > have to take pain killers round the clock.

> >

> > Because of the very high estradiol and the lack of GH

> I am

> completely

> > exhausted and pretty much live sat in a chair like a

> 90 years old.

> >

> > I have been suffring and trying to obtain correct

> treatment for

> over

> > 4 years now and I have tried everything from private

> practicioners

> to

> > many differing endocrinologists in the UK.

> >

> > My bone density went from minus 1.5 to minus 2.8 in

> two years and

> the

> > last BD test I had was about three years ago so I

> suspect now that

> > the bone density might be minus 3 or below.

> >

> > Seem a crock doesn't it?

> >

> > Opinions welcome...

> >

> > Chris

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Just to add to my last post...

My testosterone to estradiol ratio after my once a week 100 Sustanon-

which equates to 75mg of testosterone is as follows;

1 day after injection 9.5 to 1 ratio

1 days before next injection or day six....4 to 1 ratio!!

1 day after injection results;

Testosterone 1117ng/dl

Estradiol 115pg/ml

1 day before next injection

Testosterone 254ng/dl

Estradiol 63pg/ml

> >

> > From: chis_az <chis_az (DOT) co.uk>

> > Subject: What do you think of this? estradiol

level

> etc

> >

> > Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 11:54 AM

> >

> > Estradiol reference range goes upto a maximum of 150pmol/l.

> >

> > My level is 423pmol/l.

> >

> > I think this would mean it was around 115picograms in US terms.

> >

> > I am trying to persuade my endocrinologist into treating.

> >

> > I am also trying to get put on Growth Hormone therapy.

> >

> > All this is VERY hard to impossible in the UK.

> >

> > I pass the US test for GH deficiency which is a level of 5 or

below

> > (not sure of the ref range) I am about 3.2, but in the UK they do

> not

> > treat GH deficiency and have renamed the condition Severe Growth

> > Hormone Deficency and are refusing to treat what they term as

> > boarderline levels. In UK terms/levels my GH via an insulin

> > tollerance test was 11.5 and they only treat 9 or below. I had a

> > baseline test 4 years prior and my result 4 years earlier was 44,

> so

> > my GH in UK terms has gone from 44 to 11.5 in 4 years. So there

is

> > ongoing damage to the pituitary according to my endo, but they do

> not

> > know why.

> >

> > I have osteoporosis in my spine and a bone density of minus 2.8

and

> > am only 34 years old. I have very bad back pain on a daily basis

> and

> > have to take pain killers round the clock.

> >

> > Because of the very high estradiol and the lack of GH I am

> completely

> > exhausted and pretty much live sat in a chair like a 90 years old.

> >

> > I have been suffring and trying to obtain correct treatment for

> over

> > 4 years now and I have tried everything from private

practicioners

> to

> > many differing endocrinologists in the UK.

> >

> > My bone density went from minus 1.5 to minus 2.8 in two years and

> the

> > last BD test I had was about three years ago so I suspect now

that

> > the bone density might be minus 3 or below.

> >

> > Seem a crock doesn't it?

> >

> > Opinions welcome...

> >

> > Chris

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:54:11 -0000, you wrote:

>Estradiol reference range goes upto a maximum of 150pmol/l.

>

>My level is 423pmol/l.

>

>I think this would mean it was around 115picograms in US terms.

>

>I am trying to persuade my endocrinologist into treating.

>

>I am also trying to get put on Growth Hormone therapy.

>

>All this is VERY hard to impossible in the UK.

>

>I pass the US test for GH deficiency which is a level of 5 or below

>(not sure of the ref range) I am about 3.2, but in the UK they do not

>treat GH deficiency and have renamed the condition Severe Growth

>Hormone Deficency and are refusing to treat what they term as

>boarderline levels. In UK terms/levels my GH via an insulin

>tollerance test was 11.5 and they only treat 9 or below. I had a

>baseline test 4 years prior and my result 4 years earlier was 44, so

>my GH in UK terms has gone from 44 to 11.5 in 4 years. So there is

>ongoing damage to the pituitary according to my endo, but they do not

>know why.

>

>I have osteoporosis in my spine and a bone density of minus 2.8 and

>am only 34 years old. I have very bad back pain on a daily basis and

>have to take pain killers round the clock.

>

>Because of the very high estradiol and the lack of GH I am completely

>exhausted and pretty much live sat in a chair like a 90 years old.

>

>I have been suffring and trying to obtain correct treatment for over

>4 years now and I have tried everything from private practicioners to

>many differing endocrinologists in the UK.

>

>My bone density went from minus 1.5 to minus 2.8 in two years and the

>last BD test I had was about three years ago so I suspect now that

>the bone density might be minus 3 or below.

>

>Seem a crock doesn't it?

>

>Opinions welcome...

Do you have money to travel?

I'm curious if you say went to Canada and got diagnosed, if the UK

NIH would take over continuation of recommended treatment easier than

getting treatment there. With a documented diagnosis it may be easier

for them to approve. It would seem too you could argue the process

that they're denying you needed medical care better with a diagnosis

and treatment plan in hand.

[Guest guest]

> Do you have money to travel?

>

>

> I'm curious if you say went to Canada and got diagnosed, if the UK

> NIH would take over continuation of recommended treatment easier

than

> getting treatment there. With a documented diagnosis it may be

easier

> for them to approve. It would seem too you could argue the process

> that they're denying you needed medical care better with a diagnosis

> and treatment plan in hand.

They have already diagnosed me as having Growth Hormone Deficiency

and two of my enodcrinologist have written to the powers that be

requesting that I am put on treatment for the good of my health and

spine.

But I do not meet the UK criteria for Growth Horme treatment which is

to have severe GH deficiency according to their abstract created cut-

off point.

I have gone into thousands of pounds of debt already getting to the

bottom of my health problems because my health service would not pay

for proper investigations and I do not work due to severe ill health.

Even If I went to Canada or the US and got diagnosed there it would

only confirm what the UK has said, that I have GH deficiency.

But the UK NHS would still unequivically NOT pay for treatment

because I would still not meet their criteria for treatment.

According to the UK and the NHS boarderline GH deficiency is below 20

on the UK range and anything near 15 is GH deficieny. I have a

maximum response of 11.6 and the cut-off for treatment and what they

deem to be severe GH deficiency is 9 or below.

Cam you imagine a health care system applying this same logic to

other conditions?

Over night you could have no treatment for diabetes, heart disease,

epilepse, alzeimers, lung disease etc and treatment ONLY granted for

severe diabetes, severe heart disease, severe alzeimers, severe lung

disease etc...

My spine is rapidly crumbling and causing acute and chronic pain at

the age of 34 and they know it will get worse and they know that GH

deficiency is a contributory factor....but still I get no treatment.

The way I see it if this state of affairs and non treatment continues

I will sooner or later have a fracture of the spine and will be

wheelchair bound. I know this situation may kill me at some point

and that is in no way being overly dramatic, but do they care?

Added to the long term issue and pain of the spine issue I also have

extremely debilitating fatigue that is thought to stem from the GH

deficiency, but again do they care?

I actually cost my country more in benefits per year than the total

cost of treatment me would cost and those costs can only esculate

with ever worsening health.

Because of jam jar accountancy and the fact that they (the NHS) are

only worried as to what portion of money they have to pay out they do

not look at the bigger picture, so purely on monetary terms, not to

mention the idea of health and humanitarian grounds it pays to treat

me, but none of this matters either.

All the endocrinologists admit that pituitary function of this nature

tends to fall over time, so they are not even avoiding to pay for

treatment indefinitely, they are only likely to be minimizing their

cost outlay for a few years, the thing is that outlay might mean it

is too late for my spine.

Looking at my GH test results, they also take the highest result you

have and say that is your GH level, not the mean or average response,

but your highest response.

I had three GH results of 0.5 (almost nill), I had results of 9.6 and

10.5 etc, but they say my GH is 11.6 because that was the highets

result.

And even then that equates to about 3.2 on the US range with

treatment beging at 5 and below.

I just have to hope that my endo can get given a freebie by the drug

rep/drug company when he goes begging.

Given my GH has fallen from 44 four years ago to the maximum of 11.6,

I can try for a retest and hope it has fallen another 2.5 in a year

as that would see me break their threshold for treatment. Given my

GH has fallen 8 points per year if averaged out, maybe it will have

fallen by 2.5 in the last year?