Re: Labs: Please Help! (Estradiol & T)

January 8, 2008

Your Estradiol is very high in the units we use in the US your at 74 pg/ml you

should be below 40 between 10 to 30 for some best at 20. This by it's self will

lower your Testosterone your brain can't tell the difference between the

Testosterone and Estradiol so if Estradiol is very high your brain thinks it's

Testosterone. I would get on some Arimidex doing .5mgs every otherday then

retest in 4 to 6 weeks. Here is a link about this it's about older men but

happens to any age.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

You just might luck out and find your Testosterone levels will come back up.

Bottom line you need to find out why your levels are low before going on T meds.

moonfludd <no_reply > wrote:

I have been suffering from the full range of symptoms of hypogonadism

for over a year now. These are my blood test results. Can anyone offer

their opinions, please?

Total Testosterone 13 (4.56-28.20)

Free Testost. 55.8 (31-94)

DHT 4787 (860-3406)

Estradiol (E2) 273 (73-283)

TSH 0.950 (0.490-4.670)

SHBG is pending but my last test of it two months ago was low, which is

not a concern, really. Also, LH was not tested this time (forgot to

ask!) but it was tested two months ago. Ranges were not provided by the

lab at that point (?) but it was done in the UK, where the range is

normally about 1 - 8, and I was 4.4.

Can anyone please help me? Any thoughts appreciated, and thanks in

advance!

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

---------------------------------

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January 8, 2008

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:39:27 -0000, you wrote:

>I have been suffering from the full range of symptoms of hypogonadism

>for over a year now. These are my blood test results. Can anyone offer

>their opinions, please?

>

>Total Testosterone 13 (4.56-28.20)

>Free Testost. 55.8 (31-94)

>DHT 4787 (860-3406)

>Estradiol (E2) 273 (73-283)

>TSH 0.950 (0.490-4.670)

>

>SHBG is pending but my last test of it two months ago was low, which is

>not a concern, really. Also, LH was not tested this time (forgot to

>ask!) but it was tested two months ago. Ranges were not provided by the

>lab at that point (?) but it was done in the UK, where the range is

>normally about 1 - 8, and I was 4.4.

>

>Can anyone please help me? Any thoughts appreciated, and thanks in

>advance!

Most of your numbers look adequate. The issue I'd guess is E2. You're

on the high end and high E2 robs you of the effect of T, and results

in many of the same symptoms. I'd guess if you brought your T down to

the lower third of range, you'd also get a T boost of 20% or so.

January 8, 2008

The cause of these levels, I'm convinced, was the use of finasteride,

which I used for 10 months and have now been off for 11 months.

Unfortunately I never thought to really look into blood tests until

recently, but I did try to get a doc in October to test me and he

agreed to only a few, inclusing Total T.

Annoyingly the lab did *not* provide ranges, so I was kind of lost,

but with some research it seems that the common range for the UK is

10-30 and I was at 15 in Testosterone at that point. The more recent

test, done here in Canada, was 13, but as you can see, the range is

lower (4.6-28). Basically if you compare these two results using the

provisionl range I've listed here for the first, my T levels went

from 25% of the normal range to 36%, so I do think I am doing

slightly better despite a lower numerical value.

I'm pretty convinced that E2 is a/the key -- I have actually had a

little bit of gyno since puberty, so Inow believe that I may have

always had higher levels of E2 which made me extra-sensitive to any

drops in Testosterone that the finasteride handed me. I think some

type of aromatase inhibitor *may* put me just right, but my regular

GP was against prescribing it today (understandably), but she did

refer me to the endo on her floor as a favour for an appt tomorrow.

How shall prepare myself to convince this guy to prescribe me

Arimidex? I am really willing to try it and see if it helps because

I've had it with this condition -- really wearing on me but I don't

know if it's really that commonly known to treat men with high E2,

even among endos. Any thoughts?

>

> >I have been suffering from the full range of symptoms of

hypogonadism

> >for over a year now. These are my blood test results. Can anyone

offer

> >their opinions, please?

> >

> >Total Testosterone 13 (4.56-28.20)

> >Free Testost. 55.8 (31-94)

> >DHT 4787 (860-3406)

> >Estradiol (E2) 273 (73-283)

> >TSH 0.950 (0.490-4.670)

> >

> >SHBG is pending but my last test of it two months ago was low,

which is

> >not a concern, really. Also, LH was not tested this time (forgot

to

> >ask!) but it was tested two months ago. Ranges were not provided

by the

> >lab at that point (?) but it was done in the UK, where the range

is

> >normally about 1 - 8, and I was 4.4.

> >

> >Can anyone please help me? Any thoughts appreciated, and thanks in

> >advance!

>

> Most of your numbers look adequate. The issue I'd guess is E2.

You're

> on the high end and high E2 robs you of the effect of T, and results

> in many of the same symptoms. I'd guess if you brought your T down

to

> the lower third of range, you'd also get a T boost of 20% or so.

>

January 8, 2008

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:24:16 -0000, you wrote:

>The cause of these levels, I'm convinced, was the use of finasteride,

>which I used for 10 months and have now been off for 11 months.

>Unfortunately I never thought to really look into blood tests until

>recently, but I did try to get a doc in October to test me and he

>agreed to only a few, inclusing Total T.

Lots of people have ended up with low T from this stuff. It shouldn't

be on the market in my opinion.

>

>Annoyingly the lab did *not* provide ranges, so I was kind of lost,

>but with some research it seems that the common range for the UK is

>10-30 and I was at 15 in Testosterone at that point. The more recent

>test, done here in Canada, was 13, but as you can see, the range is

>lower (4.6-28). Basically if you compare these two results using the

>provisionl range I've listed here for the first, my T levels went

>from 25% of the normal range to 36%, so I do think I am doing

>slightly better despite a lower numerical value.

>

>I'm pretty convinced that E2 is a/the key -- I have actually had a

>little bit of gyno since puberty, so Inow believe that I may have

>always had higher levels of E2 which made me extra-sensitive to any

>drops in Testosterone that the finasteride handed me. I think some

>type of aromatase inhibitor *may* put me just right, but my regular

>GP was against prescribing it today (understandably), but she did

>refer me to the endo on her floor as a favour for an appt tomorrow.

>How shall prepare myself to convince this guy to prescribe me

>Arimidex? I am really willing to try it and see if it helps because

>I've had it with this condition -- really wearing on me but I don't

>know if it's really that commonly known to treat men with high E2,

>even among endos. Any thoughts?

There is a supplement DIM,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3%2C3%27-Diindolylmethane

that also can reduce E2. It works differently. It will not bump T.

Arimidex blocks T from becoming E2 (that's where it comes from in

males). So you get higher T levels as a result with the lower E2.

DIM helps metabolize E products and helps your body dump it. But

you'll still be converting T to E2 and your T levels may actually drop

some. Your levels are quite high, it'd be hard to get them in range

with DIM.

January 8, 2008

Yeah I've tried DIM, but I am really not sure if it was the Indolplex

kind you guys suggest on here, and I don't have the bottle with me.

I'll probably use something like that eventually as a supp but for

now I'd really like to try the medication because I think my system

needs jolt, to *hopefully* set the table for upregulation of T. I

believe (and again, hope) that my T levels are slowly climbing on

their own but need serious assistance with the E2. At any rate I'd

like to try this course. I your experience(s), both personal and from

what you've heard from others, are endos clued into Arimidex, or am I

in for a game of chasing one down with a history of prescribing it?

>

> >The cause of these levels, I'm convinced, was the use of

finasteride,

> >which I used for 10 months and have now been off for 11 months.

> >Unfortunately I never thought to really look into blood tests

until

> >recently, but I did try to get a doc in October to test me and he

> >agreed to only a few, inclusing Total T.

>

> Lots of people have ended up with low T from this stuff. It

shouldn't

> be on the market in my opinion.

> >

> >Annoyingly the lab did *not* provide ranges, so I was kind of

lost,

> >but with some research it seems that the common range for the UK

is

> >10-30 and I was at 15 in Testosterone at that point. The more

recent

> >test, done here in Canada, was 13, but as you can see, the range

is

> >lower (4.6-28). Basically if you compare these two results using

the

> >provisionl range I've listed here for the first, my T levels went

> >from 25% of the normal range to 36%, so I do think I am doing

> >slightly better despite a lower numerical value.

> >

> >I'm pretty convinced that E2 is a/the key -- I have actually had a

> >little bit of gyno since puberty, so Inow believe that I may have

> >always had higher levels of E2 which made me extra-sensitive to

any

> >drops in Testosterone that the finasteride handed me. I think some

> >type of aromatase inhibitor *may* put me just right, but my

regular

> >GP was against prescribing it today (understandably), but she did

> >refer me to the endo on her floor as a favour for an appt

tomorrow.

> >How shall prepare myself to convince this guy to prescribe me

> >Arimidex? I am really willing to try it and see if it helps

because

> >I've had it with this condition -- really wearing on me but I

don't

> >know if it's really that commonly known to treat men with high E2,

> >even among endos. Any thoughts?

>

> There is a supplement DIM,

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3%2C3%27-Diindolylmethane

>

> that also can reduce E2. It works differently. It will not bump T.

> Arimidex blocks T from becoming E2 (that's where it comes from in

> males). So you get higher T levels as a result with the lower E2.

>

> DIM helps metabolize E products and helps your body dump it. But

> you'll still be converting T to E2 and your T levels may actually

drop

> some. Your levels are quite high, it'd be hard to get them in

range

> with DIM.

>

January 8, 2008

It's just something you can use to get E2 down and it does lower E2 my labs are

proof of it. If you can't get Arimidex from your Dr. then do try Indolplex/DIM.

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

Also do TMG with it to help your liver wash out the E's that the DIM converts

it into from E2.

http://www.myvitanet.com/tmgtr75120ca.html