New with questions--help needed

[Guest guest]

New here and have a few questions.

Over the last 8 years I have experienced significant soft tissue problems due to

taking an antibiotic called levaquin. In the beginning, I could hardly walk or

even lift 3 pounds due to widespread tendon pain/damage. It also damage my

nervous system pretty badly. It took about 2 years for the nerve issues to

resolve and my tendons got somewhat better too. However, I go through cycles of

recovery (pain levels go way down and I am able to be pretty active) and relaps

(high pain returns and activity must be severely curtailed).

In the beginning of this journey, I saw tons of docs. Had tons of bloodwork

done. The only thing that looked weird was very high cortisol, low

testosterone, high T4 and low IGF 1. Over time, the cortisol came back to

normal levels, T4 levels came down. BUT over the eight years, the testosterone

went from about 300, up to almost 800, back down to 400, back up to 700, back

down to 500, then 400, them back up to 700 and now back down to low 300's. My

IGF 1 levels slid from 130 down to about 70, back up to 170 and now back down to

90.

I tried HGH injections for a short period when the levels were around 70 but

stopped due to increasing liver enzymes. The spike back up to 170 happened

several years after the injections. I tried compounded testosterone gel for

about a month when my levels were around 400 but I got the beginnings of gyno so

I stopped. Four months AFTER stopping the gel, my T was up to over 700. Three

years later, I am back down to around 300. And, I am hurting badly all over my

body.

So, I went back to the doc. He wants me to take the gel again along with Clomid

(25 mg per day).

Has anyone else experienced huge fluctuations in natural T production like me?

Has anyone used the gel and/or taken clomid and been able to stop after a while

when the hormonal system got " reset " ?

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Guest guest]

We don't hear about this problem much because most Dr.'s just put the men on

Testosterone without looking into why they are low. Doing this shuts down the

brain from sending the LH and FSH messages to your testis to tell them to make

more testosterone. So they never figure out why they are low.

The thing about Growth Hormone is when one is off it takes a hit the body takes

from GH trying to fix the problem. When everything goes back to normal GH goes

back up.

I don't know whats doing this to you but it can be your Testis or your Pituitary

even a liver problem.

Now that your on the low side don't go on the gel and clomid get your LH and FSH

levels tested get the following doe if you can. If your Testosterone is still

low and your LH and FSH are low with good levels on the rest with good Estradiol

levels then your Pituitary is not working right and you need an MRI to rule out

a tumor. It is rare to be cancer.

• Total Testosterone

• Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA " Free and Loosely Bound " )

• Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)

• DHT

• Estradiol (specify the Extraction Method, or " sensitive " assay for

males)

• LH

• FSH

• Prolactin

• Cortisol first do this test in blood a morning fasting test if your low

below 15 then do a saliva test.

• Thyroid Panel doing the following labs.

* TSH But this lab is only for diagnosis of hypopituitary, NOT to diagnose or

dose your hypo by.

* Free T4 and Free T3 (note the word “freeâ€)

* Total T4 and T3

* Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.)

* Ferritin (and do stress FERRITIN, not just RBC)

* Adrenals Cortisol levels (but we strongly recommend saliva tests, not the one

time blood test your doctor will do. See below, because you don’t need a

prescription)

* B-12, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA

* Reverse T3

• CBC

• Comprehensive Metabolic Panel

• Lipid Profile

• PSA (if over 40)

IF you T levels come back low with high levels of LH and FSH and your Estradiol

levels are good say 20 pg/ml then your Testis are not working.

If your cortisol levels come back doing a morning fasting blood test and are 15

or lower get a 4x's in a day saliva test to see how you look morning to bedtime

this is your rhythm. If you off your Adrenals was over worked and you need to

treat them.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> Subject: New with questions--help needed

>

> Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 9:08 PM

> New here and have a few questions.

>

> Over the last 8 years I have experienced significant soft

> tissue problems due to taking an antibiotic called

> levaquin.  In the beginning, I could hardly walk or

> even lift 3 pounds due to widespread tendon

> pain/damage.  It also damage my nervous system pretty

> badly.  It took about 2 years for the nerve issues to

> resolve and my tendons got somewhat better too. 

> However, I go through cycles of recovery (pain levels go way

> down and I am able to be pretty active) and relaps (high

> pain returns and activity must be severely curtailed). 

>

>

> In the beginning of this journey, I saw tons of docs. 

> Had tons of bloodwork done.  The only thing that looked

> weird was very high cortisol, low testosterone, high T4 and

> low IGF 1.  Over time, the cortisol came back to normal

> levels, T4 levels came down.  BUT over the eight years,

> the testosterone went from about 300, up to almost 800, back

> down to 400, back up to 700, back down to 500, then 400,

> them back up to 700 and now back down to low 300's.  My

> IGF 1 levels slid from 130 down to about 70, back up to 170

> and now back down to 90. 

>

> I tried HGH injections for a short period when the levels

> were around 70 but stopped due to increasing liver

> enzymes.  The spike back up to 170 happened several

> years after the injections.  I tried compounded

> testosterone gel for about a month when my levels were

> around 400 but I got the beginnings of gyno so I

> stopped.  Four months AFTER stopping the gel, my T was

> up to over 700.  Three years later, I am back down to

> around 300.  And, I am hurting badly all over my body.

>

> So, I went back to the doc.  He wants me to take the

> gel again along with Clomid (25 mg per day).

>

> Has anyone else experienced huge fluctuations in natural T

> production like me?  Has anyone used the gel and/or

> taken clomid and been able to stop after a while when the

> hormonal system got " reset " ?

>

> Any comments would be greatly appreciated.   

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:08:25 -0000, you wrote:

>

>In the beginning of this journey, I saw tons of docs. Had tons of bloodwork

done. The only thing that looked weird was very high cortisol, low

testosterone, high T4 and low IGF 1. Over time, the cortisol came back to

normal levels, T4 levels came down. BUT over the eight years, the testosterone

went from about 300, up to almost 800, back down to 400, back up to 700, back

down to 500, then 400, them back up to 700 and now back down to low 300's. My

IGF 1 levels slid from 130 down to about 70, back up to 170 and now back down to

90.

>

>I tried HGH injections for a short period when the levels were around 70 but

stopped due to increasing liver enzymes. The spike back up to 170 happened

several years after the injections. I tried compounded testosterone gel for

about a month when my levels were around 400 but I got the beginnings of gyno so

I stopped. Four months AFTER stopping the gel, my T was up to over 700. Three

years later, I am back down to around 300. And, I am hurting badly all over my

body.

T levels can vary 100s of points in as little as an hour. The ups and

downs don't necessarily mean you have a problem. T tests are generally

taken as soon as the lab opens in the AM. T levels peak around 4 am

for most and 8 AM tests for lab openings is the best time to get a

reliable reading.

[Guest guest]

A follow up to my earlier post:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/584516_4

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:08:25 -0000, you wrote:

>New here and have a few questions.

>

>Over the last 8 years I have experienced significant soft tissue problems due

to taking an antibiotic called levaquin. In the beginning, I could hardly walk

or even lift 3 pounds due to widespread tendon pain/damage. It also damage my

nervous system pretty badly. It took about 2 years for the nerve issues to

resolve and my tendons got somewhat better too. However, I go through cycles of

recovery (pain levels go way down and I am able to be pretty active) and relaps

(high pain returns and activity must be severely curtailed).

>

>In the beginning of this journey, I saw tons of docs. Had tons of bloodwork

done. The only thing that looked weird was very high cortisol, low

testosterone, high T4 and low IGF 1. Over time, the cortisol came back to

normal levels, T4 levels came down. BUT over the eight years, the testosterone

went from about 300, up to almost 800, back down to 400, back up to 700, back

down to 500, then 400, them back up to 700 and now back down to low 300's. My

IGF 1 levels slid from 130 down to about 70, back up to 170 and now back down to

90.

>

>I tried HGH injections for a short period when the levels were around 70 but

stopped due to increasing liver enzymes. The spike back up to 170 happened

several years after the injections. I tried compounded testosterone gel for

about a month when my levels were around 400 but I got the beginnings of gyno so

I stopped. Four months AFTER stopping the gel, my T was up to over 700. Three

years later, I am back down to around 300. And, I am hurting badly all over my

body.

>

>So, I went back to the doc. He wants me to take the gel again along with

Clomid (25 mg per day).

>

>Has anyone else experienced huge fluctuations in natural T production like me?

Has anyone used the gel and/or taken clomid and been able to stop after a while

when the hormonal system got " reset " ?

>

>Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Guest guest]

Reto the link does not work. One needs to be a member.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> >New here and have a few questions.

> >

> >Over the last 8 years I have experienced significant

> soft tissue problems due to taking an antibiotic called

> levaquin.  In the beginning, I could hardly walk or

> even lift 3 pounds due to widespread tendon

> pain/damage.  It also damage my nervous system pretty

> badly.  It took about 2 years for the nerve issues to

> resolve and my tendons got somewhat better too. 

> However, I go through cycles of recovery (pain levels go way

> down and I am able to be pretty active) and relaps (high

> pain returns and activity must be severely curtailed). 

>

> >

> >In the beginning of this journey, I saw tons of

> docs.  Had tons of bloodwork done.  The only thing

> that looked weird was very high cortisol, low testosterone,

> high T4 and low IGF 1.  Over time, the cortisol came

> back to normal levels, T4 levels came down.  BUT over

> the eight years, the testosterone went from about 300, up to

> almost 800, back down to 400, back up to 700, back down to

> 500, then 400, them back up to 700 and now back down to low

> 300's.  My IGF 1 levels slid from 130 down to about 70,

> back up to 170 and now back down to 90. 

> >

> >I tried HGH injections for a short period when the

> levels were around 70 but stopped due to increasing liver

> enzymes.  The spike back up to 170 happened several

> years after the injections.  I tried compounded

> testosterone gel for about a month when my levels were

> around 400 but I got the beginnings of gyno so I

> stopped.  Four months AFTER stopping the gel, my T was

> up to over 700.  Three years later, I am back down to

> around 300.  And, I am hurting badly all over my body.

> >

> >So, I went back to the doc.  He wants me to take

> the gel again along with Clomid (25 mg per day).

> >

> >Has anyone else experienced huge fluctuations in

> natural T production like me?  Has anyone used the gel

> and/or taken clomid and been able to stop after a while when

> the hormonal system got " reset " ?

> >

> >Any comments would be greatly appreciated.   

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

All the results were taken first thing in the morning and at the same lab.

>

> >

> >In the beginning of this journey, I saw tons of docs. Had tons of bloodwork

done. The only thing that looked weird was very high cortisol, low

testosterone, high T4 and low IGF 1. Over time, the cortisol came back to

normal levels, T4 levels came down. BUT over the eight years, the testosterone

went from about 300, up to almost 800, back down to 400, back up to 700, back

down to 500, then 400, them back up to 700 and now back down to low 300's. My

IGF 1 levels slid from 130 down to about 70, back up to 170 and now back down to

90.

> >

> >I tried HGH injections for a short period when the levels were around 70 but

stopped due to increasing liver enzymes. The spike back up to 170 happened

several years after the injections. I tried compounded testosterone gel for

about a month when my levels were around 400 but I got the beginnings of gyno so

I stopped. Four months AFTER stopping the gel, my T was up to over 700. Three

years later, I am back down to around 300. And, I am hurting badly all over my

body.

>

>

> T levels can vary 100s of points in as little as an hour. The ups and

> downs don't necessarily mean you have a problem. T tests are generally

> taken as soon as the lab opens in the AM. T levels peak around 4 am

> for most and 8 AM tests for lab openings is the best time to get a

> reliable reading.

>

[Guest guest]

LH-2.9

FSH-4.2

Prolactin-7.0

Free T-45.3

E-21

AM Cortisol-17.2

TSH-1.4

Total T4-10.7 (way up over average levels of about 8.4 historically)

Free T3-343

Free T4-1.1

Reverse T3-254

Thyroid antibodies--norma

PSA- .7

Ferritin--

Vitamin D-47

Vitamin B12-685

Pregnenolone-14

DHEA-129

CBC-all normal

Comp met panel--all normal

>

> > From: pwdrskiers <no_reply >

> > Subject: New with questions--help needed

> >

> > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 9:08 PM

> > New here and have a few questions.

> >

> > Over the last 8 years I have experienced significant soft

> > tissue problems due to taking an antibiotic called

> > levaquin.  In the beginning, I could hardly walk or

> > even lift 3 pounds due to widespread tendon

> > pain/damage.  It also damage my nervous system pretty

> > badly.  It took about 2 years for the nerve issues to

> > resolve and my tendons got somewhat better too. 

> > However, I go through cycles of recovery (pain levels go way

> > down and I am able to be pretty active) and relaps (high

> > pain returns and activity must be severely curtailed). 

> >

> >

> > In the beginning of this journey, I saw tons of docs. 

> > Had tons of bloodwork done.  The only thing that looked

> > weird was very high cortisol, low testosterone, high T4 and

> > low IGF 1.  Over time, the cortisol came back to normal

> > levels, T4 levels came down.  BUT over the eight years,

> > the testosterone went from about 300, up to almost 800, back

> > down to 400, back up to 700, back down to 500, then 400,

> > them back up to 700 and now back down to low 300's.  My

> > IGF 1 levels slid from 130 down to about 70, back up to 170

> > and now back down to 90. 

> >

> > I tried HGH injections for a short period when the levels

> > were around 70 but stopped due to increasing liver

> > enzymes.  The spike back up to 170 happened several

> > years after the injections.  I tried compounded

> > testosterone gel for about a month when my levels were

> > around 400 but I got the beginnings of gyno so I

> > stopped.  Four months AFTER stopping the gel, my T was

> > up to over 700.  Three years later, I am back down to

> > around 300.  And, I am hurting badly all over my body.

> >

> > So, I went back to the doc.  He wants me to take the

> > gel again along with Clomid (25 mg per day).

> >

> > Has anyone else experienced huge fluctuations in natural T

> > production like me?  Has anyone used the gel and/or

> > taken clomid and been able to stop after a while when the

> > hormonal system got " reset " ?

> >

> > Any comments would be greatly appreciated.   

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks. The link took me to a site I had to register for.

>

> >New here and have a few questions.

> >

> >Over the last 8 years I have experienced significant soft tissue problems due

to taking an antibiotic called levaquin. In the beginning, I could hardly walk

or even lift 3 pounds due to widespread tendon pain/damage. It also damage my

nervous system pretty badly. It took about 2 years for the nerve issues to

resolve and my tendons got somewhat better too. However, I go through cycles of

recovery (pain levels go way down and I am able to be pretty active) and relaps

(high pain returns and activity must be severely curtailed).

> >

> >In the beginning of this journey, I saw tons of docs. Had tons of bloodwork

done. The only thing that looked weird was very high cortisol, low

testosterone, high T4 and low IGF 1. Over time, the cortisol came back to

normal levels, T4 levels came down. BUT over the eight years, the testosterone

went from about 300, up to almost 800, back down to 400, back up to 700, back

down to 500, then 400, them back up to 700 and now back down to low 300's. My

IGF 1 levels slid from 130 down to about 70, back up to 170 and now back down to

90.

> >

> >I tried HGH injections for a short period when the levels were around 70 but

stopped due to increasing liver enzymes. The spike back up to 170 happened

several years after the injections. I tried compounded testosterone gel for

about a month when my levels were around 400 but I got the beginnings of gyno so

I stopped. Four months AFTER stopping the gel, my T was up to over 700. Three

years later, I am back down to around 300. And, I am hurting badly all over my

body.

> >

> >So, I went back to the doc. He wants me to take the gel again along with

Clomid (25 mg per day).

> >

> >Has anyone else experienced huge fluctuations in natural T production like

me? Has anyone used the gel and/or taken clomid and been able to stop after a

while when the hormonal system got " reset " ?

> >

> >Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

>

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:25:40 -0000, you wrote:

>

>LH-2.9

>FSH-4.2

>Prolactin-7.0

>Free T-45.3

>E-21

>AM Cortisol-17.2

>TSH-1.4

>Total T4-10.7 (way up over average levels of about 8.4 historically)

>Free T3-343

>Free T4-1.1

>Reverse T3-254

>Thyroid antibodies--norma

>PSA- .7

>Ferritin--

>Vitamin D-47

>Vitamin B12-685

>Pregnenolone-14

>DHEA-129

>CBC-all normal

>Comp met panel--all normal

It will help if you print the ranges fir your labs. Every lab is a

little different.

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:26:52 -0000, you wrote:

>

>Thanks. The link took me to a site I had to register for.

Yeah odd. I found it through google and it lets me look at the one

page, but wants you to register if you move beyond that.

ANyway I registered and found it a powerful site full of studies and

news stories. I'm working my way through the estradiol links now.

[Guest guest]

Don't have them all as I only wrote down the lab results in many cases,

especially if I was looking very normal. Pregnenolone and free T were below the

lowest end of the normal range. All others looked decent based on lab ranges

when I had the data.

>

> >

> >LH-2.9

> >FSH-4.2

> >Prolactin-7.0

> >Free T-45.3 (low end of normal was 46, so below normal)

> >E-21

> >AM Cortisol-17.2

> >TSH-1.4

> >Total T4-10.7 (way up over average levels of about 8.4 historically)

> >Free T3-343

> >Free T4-1.1

> >Reverse T3-254

> >Thyroid antibodies--norma

> >PSA- .7

> >Ferritin--

> >Vitamin D-47

> >Vitamin B12-685

> >Pregnenolone-14 (don't have range but this was below normal)

> >DHEA-129

> >CBC-all normal

> >Comp met panel--all normal

>

>

> It will help if you print the ranges fir your labs. Every lab is a

> little different.

>

[Guest guest]

Dhea is low so is b-12 ..

People with less then 900 are likely to be deficient at the cellular level which

is not picked up by serum testing.

>

>

>

> Don't have them all as I only wrote down the lab results in many cases,

especially if I was looking very normal. Pregnenolone and free T were below the

lowest end of the normal range. All others looked decent based on lab ranges

when I had the data.

> >

> > >

> > >LH-2.9

> > >FSH-4.2

> > >Prolactin-7.0

> > >Free T-45.3 (low end of normal was 46, so below normal)

> > >E-21

> > >AM Cortisol-17.2

> > >TSH-1.4

> > >Total T4-10.7 (way up over average levels of about 8.4 historically)

> > >Free T3-343

> > >Free T4-1.1

> > >Reverse T3-254

> > >Thyroid antibodies--norma

> > >PSA- .7

> > >Ferritin--

> > >Vitamin D-47

> > >Vitamin B12-685

> > >Pregnenolone-14 (don't have range but this was below normal)

> > >DHEA-129

> > >CBC-all normal

> > >Comp met panel--all normal

> >

> >

> > It will help if you print the ranges fir your labs. Every lab is a

> > little different.

> >

>