Guest guest Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Jim that is criminal. Worthy of medical malpractice. Maybe if Doctors got sued for the results of their neglect....mindsets will change. > > > > > > > > You're right! The more I learn the more testy I > > get....at my own experience and others! This is just wrong! > > Todays the 4th day after my 1st T-Shot and already I'm > > feeling better. I get checked next Wed morn. I was at 157 > > before. > > > > > > > > Now speaking of tests and getting > > testy...WHY...if T is at itshighest during the morning hours > > is the reccomendation to test then? Isn't this as good as > > its ever gonna be? Won't it make more sense to test at the > > LOWEST point in the day??? > > > > > > > I can see a number of reasons to test in the morning > > when you are at your highest. The first is that labs are not > > open the late evening, like 10 pm or midnight when you are > > at your lowest. Why would they stay open just for one test > > out of the hundreds that they do? The next is that the > > normal levels have been developed from highest levels and > > doctors who treat low T use these levels. So if everyone > > were to test when they are at their lowest the target levels > > would have to be adjusted. For instance, when a doctor tells > > a 60 year old guy that he should be at least 500 when tested > > in the early morning, he would now tell that same guy that > > he should be at least 300 if testing were to be done at > > night as a standard practice. Clinical trials test subjects > > throughout the day, but base effectiveness on peak levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Yes this is what happens many men find out they have low T because they reak bones do to bone loss. The longer your levels are low the more damage your body takes and the shorter your life gets. Co-Moderator Phil > >  > From: wilfredtr <no_reply > >  > Subject: Re: Testo Types >  > >  > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 10:38 AM >  > Well, *I* would say, sure its >  > justified to stay open to just do my one test. > Or if I'm not >  > enough, then do more tests, more often to > justify it. That >  > being said, I understand that if the norm has > been to test >  > in the morning, then comparing test results > against the same >  > time line makes sense. But what about the guy > who test at >  > 350 in the morning, and is down to 250 or lower > the rest of >  > the day, and is denied treatment? >  > >  > " ...testosterone levels were 20–25% lower at > 4pm >  > than 8am hours " >  > >  > http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/jc.2008-1902v1 >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > > >  > > > You're right! The more I learn the > more testy I >  > get....at my own experience and others! This is > just wrong! >  > Todays the 4th day after my 1st T-Shot and > already I'm >  > feeling better. I get checked next Wed morn. I > was at 157 >  > before. >  > > > >  > > > Now speaking of tests and getting >  > testy...WHY...if T is at itshighest during the > morning hours >  > is the reccomendation to test then? Isn't this > as good as >  > its ever gonna be? Won't it make more sense to > test at the >  > LOWEST point in the day??? >  > > > >  > > I can see a number of reasons to test in > the morning >  > when you are at your highest. The first is that > labs are not >  > open the late evening, like 10 pm or midnight > when you are >  > at your lowest. Why would they stay open just > for one test >  > out of the hundreds that they do? The next is > that the >  > normal levels have been developed from highest > levels and >  > doctors who treat low T use these levels. So if > everyone >  > were to test when they are at their lowest the > target levels >  > would have to be adjusted. For instance, when a > doctor tells >  > a 60 year old guy that he should be at least > 500 when tested >  > in the early morning, he would now tell that > same guy that >  > he should be at least 300 if testing were to be > done at >  > night as a standard practice. Clinical trials > test subjects >  > throughout the day, but base effectiveness on > peak levels. >  > > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > ------------------------------------ >  > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Jim as a followup on my earlier comment here are some websites that may be of interest: http://forums.wrongdiagnosis.com/ Sue em! http://www.youhavealawyer.com/misdiagnosis/index.html or Google " Medical Board " and find your state. You can file a compliant against the Doctor(s) that misdiagnosed. Now for those of you who might think the last two are a bit " testy " of a reaction, I disagree. You haven't seen testy yet. And not when I read stories like this on www.wrongdiagnosis.com I feel it is extremely important to educate the masses about this problem as I have totally lost the last 10 years of my life because of it. I was first diagnosed with severe depression by my GP and given the usual antidepressants, the result was I flipped into a hypo manic state for about 3 months then the effect of the drug would wear out and the severe depression would return. He would then try a new antidepressant and I would repeat the same symptoms. At one point in 1998 I spent a week in a psychiatric hospital severely depressed and suicidal. It is at this point I was diagnosed Bipolar II given a different antidepressant and mood stabilizers. The mood stabilizers kept me in a hypo-manic state for about 2 or 3 years. During this time I was prescribed different antidepressants and mood stabilizers. Then came the crash in 2005, I was again hospitalized for a week. Out I came with yet another set of drugs. I spent another 2 years trying different antidepressants and mood stabilizers then in 2007 the Dr's said I needed ECT (Electro Convulsive Therapy), I had 17 treatments. The results were discouraging at best. The treatment effectively wiped out the last 8 to 10 years of my memory. It was over a year later when I could actually comprehend what I would read. I would get lost driving in a city I grew up in. After awhile I finally grasped what my family and friends had been saying, that I should get my Testosterone levels checked. I went to my psychiatrist and requested all my blood test results. And guess what my levels of T and free T were very low. I took this information to my GP and requested T replacement. At first I got injections which would work very well for 3 or 4 days then I would crash, after 2 injections he switched me to T Gel which I have been using for about a month. All the severe depression is gone, the terrible mood swings gone, hypo-mania gone as well. My energy level has increased as well. At 52 I feel alive again after so many years of despair. I have not been able to work for years and I think with retraining I might be able to return to the workplace if I continue to improve as I have been. This error by the medical profession has cost me a 19 year marriage, my carrier and 10 years of my life. How can this be ?! Misdiagnoses causes pain. It's time to return the favor. > > > > > > > > > > You're right! The more I learn the more testy I > > > get....at my own experience and others! This is just wrong! > > > Todays the 4th day after my 1st T-Shot and already I'm > > > feeling better. I get checked next Wed morn. I was at 157 > > > before. > > > > > > > > > > Now speaking of tests and getting > > > testy...WHY...if T is at itshighest during the morning hours > > > is the reccomendation to test then? Isn't this as good as > > > its ever gonna be? Won't it make more sense to test at the > > > LOWEST point in the day??? > > > > > > > > > I can see a number of reasons to test in the morning > > > when you are at your highest. The first is that labs are not > > > open the late evening, like 10 pm or midnight when you are > > > at your lowest. Why would they stay open just for one test > > > out of the hundreds that they do? The next is that the > > > normal levels have been developed from highest levels and > > > doctors who treat low T use these levels. So if everyone > > > were to test when they are at their lowest the target levels > > > would have to be adjusted. For instance, when a doctor tells > > > a 60 year old guy that he should be at least 500 when tested > > > in the early morning, he would now tell that same guy that > > > he should be at least 300 if testing were to be done at > > > night as a standard practice. Clinical trials test subjects > > > throughout the day, but base effectiveness on peak levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:44:57 -0000, you wrote: >You're right! The more I learn the more testy I get....at my own experience and others! This is just wrong! Todays the 4th day after my 1st T-Shot and already I'm feeling better. I get checked next Wed morn. I was at 157 before. > >Now speaking of tests and getting testy...WHY...if T is at itshighest during the morning hours is the reccomendation to test then? Isn't this as good as its ever gonna be? Won't it make more sense to test at the LOWEST point in the day??? One's you start TRT the time of day no longer matters. Best practice in my opinion is then to find out what your high and low are. Highest is three days after injection, lowest day of injection before injection. If you're on gel it's all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:54:26 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Any Dr. worth his salt that would not treat a men after seeing him below 400 is not worth wasting your time with. But then a good Dr. would treat one by how he feels not his labs and would not put one on TRT until he tested everything to see why he is low. Life is to short to mess with Dr.'s that are not up on TRT and testing. Well a 400 range or so would require a retest - early morning. T levels vary by 100s of points over even an hour. There needs to be more confirmation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Yes that link your told me about at Nick O's site Dr. Gorden in it he says labs ranges are not good because most of the men in the sample tested for range all ready have low levels or testosterone. Quest labs has a range of 250 to 1100 and Dr. Gorden say to div. the upper level by 2.7 this ='s 407 to him this is the very bottom of the range. Co-Moderator Phil > > >Any Dr. worth his salt that would not treat a men after > seeing him below 400 is not worth wasting your time > with. But then a good Dr. would treat one by how he > feels not his labs and would not put one on TRT until he > tested everything to see why he is low. Life is to > short to mess with Dr.'s that are not up on TRT and > testing. > > > Well a 400 range or so would require a retest - early > morning. T > levels vary by 100s of points over even an hour. There > needs to be > more confirmation. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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