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I don't believe that is true. I know Phil was on TRT for years and started HCG

and they still came back. He found he was really secondary and not primary. Any

TRT will shut down testicle function due to an abundance of T in our system -

your body doesn't think it needs anymore so it stops production. If the

testicles are not required to make anymore, then they like our other body parts

will atrophy. My position on this is that even if you are primary and only

produce a small amount, it is important to keep them functioning on some level

for long term health. Also - lets not kid ourselves - no guy wants BB balls.

 

Arkansas

From: kckruse <kckruse@...>

Subject: primary hypogonadism

Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 3:09 PM

I am 59 and was diagnosed with primary hypogonadism 2 years ago. I

was devastated so I started TRT immediately. I take 7.5 g

androgel/day; this is working great for me. I have a great (almost

too good) libido and good erections and large ejaculates. My only

complaint is that my testicles shrank considerably; MD claims they

" ain't growing back " . Is this probably true?

Isn't it true that all of us will eventually be " primary? "

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Good point, Dan.

If I'm reading Phil's experience correctly (message #46749), he

mentions being on TRT for 23 years without HCG, and testifies that

he'd been on HCG for 8 months as of Sept 25, 2008. That's quite a

long hibernation for testes to return from, yet he reports they did.

That should merit some personal investigation into HCG.

~Xian

>

> From: kckruse <kckruse@...>

> Subject: primary hypogonadism

>

> Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 3:09 PM

>

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> I am 59 and was diagnosed with primary hypogonadism 2 years ago. I

> was devastated so I started TRT immediately. I take 7.5 g

> androgel/day; this is working great for me. I have a great (almost

> too good) libido and good erections and large ejaculates. My only

> complaint is that my testicles shrank considerably; MD claims they

> " ain't growing back " . Is this probably true?

>

> Isn't it true that all of us will eventually be " primary? "

>

>

>

>

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Lucky man! I had a left Epididymectomy in 1994 and the testes shrank down to

a pea size. The right side one is still normal, but does not produce sperm.

My ejaculate is a clear, brownish sticky liquid that I can only assume is

prostate juice.

For the knowledgeable in this list, does this clear, brownish sticky liquid

present any pathology? Does it mean anything? I am only 55 and I am

wondering why sperm production has ceased.

Thanks.

Ian

2008/12/6 kckruse <kckruse@...>

> I am 59 and was diagnosed with primary hypogonadism 2 years ago. I

> was devastated so I started TRT immediately. I take 7.5 g

> androgel/day; this is working great for me. I have a great (almost

> too good) libido and good erections and large ejaculates. My only

> complaint is that my testicles shrank considerably; MD claims they

> " ain't growing back " . Is this probably true?

>

> Isn't it true that all of us will eventually be " primary? "

>

>

>

--

---------------------------------------

Ian Samson, Johannesburg, ZA

---------------------------------------

" an ounce of performance is worth pounds of promises "

---------------------------------------

" the road to Hell is paved with good intentions "

---------------------------------------

Governments are like diapers. They have to be changed often and for the same

reason.

---------------------------------------

We speak English and understand American!

----------------------------------------

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I have noticed in recent months that I am producing less and less cum

(being XXY I am 100% infertile) than usual. Sometimes the amount

would fit neatly onto a pin head! Would HCG reverse that trend?

Steph

> >

> > From: kckruse <kckruse@>

> > Subject: primary hypogonadism

> >

> > Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 3:09 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I am 59 and was diagnosed with primary hypogonadism 2 years ago.

I

> > was devastated so I started TRT immediately. I take 7.5 g

> > androgel/day; this is working great for me. I have a great

(almost

> > too good) libido and good erections and large ejaculates. My only

> > complaint is that my testicles shrank considerably; MD claims

they

> > " ain't growing back " . Is this probably true?

> >

> > Isn't it true that all of us will eventually be " primary? "

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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  • 1 year later...

In layman's terms... bad balls.

A bit more descriptive... your testicles are failing/have failed and no

longer function properly in regards to producing testosterone.

On 1/28/2010 11:09 AM, rjamestemple@... wrote:

>

> Would any of you be kind enuf to explain primary hypo to me? In

> layman's term's

>

> Thanks,

> Rob

> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

>

>

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Men that are Primary there labs come back low for Total and Free T and there LH

and FSH the message from the brain that tells the testis to make more T is very

high near of above the top of the range. One needs to see a Uro to rule out

cancer of the testis or Prostate before going on TRT.

In most men they just stop working for no reason.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: rjamestemple@... <rjamestemple@...>

> Subject: Primary hypogonadism

>

> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 11:09 AM

> Would any of you be kind enuf to

> explain primary hypo to me? In layman's term's

>

> Thanks,

> Rob

> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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I think I may have had this problem my entire life. I am now 63. Went on TRT 4

years ago.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Primary hypogonadism

>

> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 11:09 AM

> Would any of you be kind enuf to

> explain primary hypo to me? In layman's term's

>

> Thanks,

> Rob

> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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How do you feel now and how is your sex life being on TRT for this long you need

to test your Estraidol levels and if high treat them get a Quest labs test #4021

and if your over 30 pg/ml get it down.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: rjamestemple@...

> <rjamestemple@...>

> > Subject: Primary hypogonadism

> >

> > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 11:09 AM

> > Would any of you be kind enuf to

> > explain primary hypo to me? In layman's term's

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Rob

> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

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Hi Phil,

I might be somewhat of an unusual primary. I was a late maturing adolescent.

All my friends were jerking off and into girls way before I was. For about two

years I thought I was a freak because I could not ejaculate like all my peers.

One day I jerked off for hours and nothing happened. That nite my penis was so

swollen it looked like a polish sausage. I thought it was going to fall off. I

was terrified and could not tell my parents of course. In high school gym class

all the boys had to swim in the nude. This was back in the 60's. I was

humiliated weekly for four years because I had a very small penis and small

balls that were usually shrunk up inside me. I did start to date when I turned

19. Girls told me I had small balls which was very embarrassing. When flacid my

dink was always small but when erect close to 6 inches. I never had any trouble

with having orgasms and still don't at 63. I have always been a horny guy. About

4 years ago I paid for a blood test from Life Extension and found out my

testosterone was low. It was 160. DHEA was very low as well. It was then that my

GP told me I had hypogonadism and prescibed Testim which I took for years until

my Insurance company would no longer approve it. They have approved Androgel

which I still take religously. I may be somewhat unique because I never had a ED

problem or loss of libido even when my T was so low. I will admit that the T has

helped in that department tho. I'm 63 and hornier than a 3 peckered billy goat

in heat. My wife would love it if I quit the T. Ha ha. I primarily started

taking the T for heart health, to lessen depression and build muscle as Life

Extension advised me that low T is not good for aging males. Everything was fine

until Oct. when another LE blood test showed Estradiol at 58 and a PSA of 4.2. I

stopped the T for about a month and it went from 650 down to 120. I'm back on

it. It is absolutely amazing how much better I feel on it. I am currently

working with Dr. O and HAN and we are trying to sort this all out. HAN has found

that I have thyroid issues as well and I am wasting magnesium and some other

vitamins and minerals. The plot definitely thickens. I think this is really

screwed up that I had to wait until my 60's to find out about this. Sorry about

the long rant. I'd really appreciate any comments out there.

Cheers,

Rob

PS here is another oddity. Rubbing my nipples during sex has always given me

great sexual pleasure. This has been greatly increased since I've been on T.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Primary hypogonadism

> >

> > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 11:09 AM

> > Would any of you be kind enuf to

> > explain primary hypo to me? In layman's term's

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Rob

> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

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Bob your in good hands with Hard and Dr. O you might have been going through

delayed puberty. Never stop TRT again crashing is not fun and your lucky you

came back up fast. The nipple thing might be higher levels of Estradiol and

this is OK as long as you can get it up or don't have ED problems. I hear you

about your wife what is it with women that get older mine is 64 and could care

less about having sex. Her hormones are good so what is it. I get turned off

by the way she acts about still I have it with her when I can get her in the

mood. I am 65 getting over heart bypass sugary but in my 50's I had ED problems

for about 7 yrs but I used a pump and penis ring to have sex with my wife to

keep her happy. Now I could have sex everyday and she could care less.

Do keep track of your Estradiol levels and your DHT on Androgel they can go why

you very high. My DHT on it was 3x's above the top of the range and this was

driving my prostate nuts. The whole time I was on it I had pain in my joints

and muscles. I posted about this because it was dam bad I was house bound for

yrs. One of the guys got back to me telling me he had the same problems on gels

and switched to shots and the problem went away. I did this and the longer I

was on the shots the more the pain went away today no pain.

It's hard to get good levels on gels for some men I have a thyroid problem and

read that the skin will get thicker from this and gels don't get through the

skin very well. I never had a TT level over 600 in gels now today I stay up in

the 800's and feel great.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > From: rjamestemple@...

> > <rjamestemple@...>

> > > Subject: Primary hypogonadism

> > >

> > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 11:09 AM

> > > Would any of you be kind enuf to

> > > explain primary hypo to me? In layman's term's

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Rob

> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

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Phil,

Thanks for your comments. What is DHT? I have a thyroid issue as well. HAN is

working on this w me. I hope to sort this out soon. The gel works really well

for me. Just have to watch the E and PSA. I think HAN and Dr. O are about to

have me visit labCorps again soon for more tests.

And about the nipple thing. It has always been that way since puberty. Could I

have had high E for 50 years?????

Cheers,

Rob

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Primary hypogonadism

> > >

> > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 11:09 AM

> > > Would any of you be kind enuf to

> > > explain primary hypo to me? In layman's term's

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Rob

> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

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Yes you base levels can be a little high your lucky. DHT is Dihydrotestosterone

here is a link about it.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > >

> > > > From: rjamestemple@...

> > > <rjamestemple@...>

> > > > Subject: Primary

> hypogonadism

> > > >

> > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 11:09 AM

> > > > Would any of you be kind enuf to

> > > > explain primary hypo to me? In layman's

> term's

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Rob

> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

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Gin2c,

Thanks for the info.

I have large boobs as well. But my GP tells me it is not gyno but fat. I weigh

215. I have always thought my boobs were to big tho. And the sexually sensitive

nipples as well.

I think I have other female characteristics as well. However I have a full beard

and a very hairy chest and back?????

How did u correct your hormones?

Rob

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: Primary hypogonadism

>

> Phil,

> Thanks for your comments. What is DHT? I have a thyroid issue as well. HAN

is working on this w me. I hope to sort this out soon. The gel works really

well for me. Just have to watch the E and PSA. I think HAN and Dr. O are about

to have me visit labCorps again soon for more tests.

> And about the nipple thing. It has always been that way since puberty. Could

I have had high E for 50 years?????

>

> Cheers,

>

> Rob

>

<snip>

Yes you could have low T & high E2 for 50 years. I did. My story is almost

identical to yours, except I grew small boobs as a teen along with sexually

sensitive nipples. Now have large boobs & very sexually sensitive nipples, but

they stopped growning after I corrected my hormones.

You may be Klinefelters Mosaic like me. No cure, it is fixed before birth.

Hormone treatment resolves most of the physical issues if started early.

K Mosaic is almost impossible to catch in a blood test. Mine was mostly in the

Chest & Face. No facial or chest hair & walked like a woman.

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>

> Gin2c,

> Thanks for the info.

> I have large boobs as well. But my GP tells me it is not gyno but fat. I weigh

215. I have always thought my boobs were to big tho. And the sexually sensitive

nipples as well.

> I think I have other female characteristics as well. However I have a full

beard and a very hairy chest and back?????

> How did u correct your hormones?

>

> Rob

<snip>

I got so low in energy & strength that a doctor finnally realized that I migh

have a problem & did a complete blood workup.

He found that I had very low Testosterone & very high Estrogen, mainly

Estradiol.

I went on the patch & Arimidex. That did not work well, then Androgel, then

finally 560mg Test Cyp injections, 1/2 Arimidex, 30IU HCG, & a little dab of

progestrone twice weekly.

Now the T:E2 ratio is about 40:1 instead of 2:1 at the start.

Most male doc do not see real breasts on men, they say it is fat.

A female doc sent me to my first mammogram after she examined me the first time.

Estradiol E2 is what causes boobs.

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