RE: Miserable in Albuquerque

October 14, 2009

Welcome to the group, this knowledgeable bunch of guys will help you; they will

guide you to the correct labs to get the correct conclusions--with proper s*x

hormone testing--I am here seeking help for husband..

My cat's vet knows more about thyroid issues than any MD I have ever seen

----so, from a testing standpoint,you may need more for thyroid (Free T3, Free

T4 a place to start, lack of T3 leads to bad depression--shrinks should know

that ..you can read about that link here:

http://www.thyroid.ca/Articles/EngE10F.html

Also, you can saliva test for adrenal status: I use ZRT but there are others:

www.canaryclub.org

Hang in there! You are in the right place to get some help figuring this all

out...we are all here because medical docs don't get it..El

October 14, 2009

Welcome to the forum. You'll get more answers here than you will ever get at a

regular GP's office. Here you'll be educated on the hormones and be directed to

doctors that know what their talking about when it comes to a guys hormones.

Good luck as you will start to feel better.

>

> Hello all. I have read with great interest many of the stories posted here

and am hoping that I have come to the right place for advice and support.

>

> I am a 51 year old male. I have been suffering from depression of varying

severity my entire life, including childhood, and have always felt that

something is fundamentally wrong with me that underlies the depression, as I

have been minimally responsive to a wide range of antidepressant medications

(and have had some of the worst experiences of my life with some of them).

>

> My life has deteriorated in so many ways in the last few years that I don't

even know where to begin and don't want to take up too much of your time going

into the details of my symptoms. Suffice it to say that I have recently figured

out that I am suffering from hypogonadism and probably have been for most of my

life. I feel like I never really completed puberty. I have had low libido my

entire adult life and in the last few years it has become almost non-existent.

I have never been married and have had very few sexual relationships in my life,

none in the last 15 years. I have been led to believe that my chronic

depression is at the root of this, but until lately have not been aware of an

underlying cause for the depression, though I have been told that it may be

genetic, related to poor diet and exercise habits, etc. I feel like I have been

harmed by the treatment of various psychiatrists and neglected by primary care

providers.

>

> I lost my job several years ago (I am a veterinarian), and have been unable to

hold a full-time job since then mainly due to declining health and poor control

over my moods. I have gained an awful lot of weight in the last two years with

a concurrent loss of energy and increasing exercise intolerance. My mind is a

shell of what it used to be. I have hot flashes frequently, ache all over, have

to wake up to urinate every 1-2 hours at night and have trouble controlling my

bladder during the day, among other problems. Although I have little interest

in sex, I can get an erection, but it is hard to maintain. I masturbate maybe

once or twice a month, mainly just to see if everything still works " down

there " . My depression waxes and wanes but lately has been nearly unbearable,

and I don't think a day has gone by in the last few years where thoughts of

suicide haven't entered my mind.

>

> Anyways, I finally matched all of my symptoms with those of male hypogonadism.

I told my psychiatrist (who I see through a local university health care system)

what I thought and he ordered some bloodwork. My CBC and chem panel were

unremarkable other than borderline high cholesterol and glucose. He added on

tests for total and free testosterone, as well as TSH. My results:

>

> testosterone (total) 1.9 ng/mL (lab normal range 2.2-8.4)

> testosterone (free) 3.37 pg/mL (lab normal range 7.3-25)

> tsh 0.755 (lab normal range 0.4-4.5)

> glucose (fasting) 140 (lab normal <140)

>

> I discussed the results with my psychiatrist several weeks ago and he

recommended I start with a testosterone injection (200mg) until my primary care

physician comes back from vacation in a month. He also ordered an endocrinology

consult but said that it may be months before I can be seen. So I went in to

the clinic today to get the injection, but was told that it wasn't available and

that the doctor wanted to repeat my testosterone levels before he would let me

start on testosterone. This time he ordered a prolactin level as well.

>

> I can't get a hold of this Dr. to ask him what he thinks is going on and why

he ordered the prolactin test rather than LH, FSH, estradiol, etc. I need to

find a doctor who is skilled at dealing with hypogonadism (my shrink admits that

he has never heard of a connection between low testosterone and depression).

>

> My main question to this group is, does anyone know a specialist within the

University of New Mexico health care system who is familiar with hypogonadism

treatment? If not, can anyone refer me to a doctor in or near Albuquerque that

would be worth spending what amounts to what little is left of my life savings

to see?

>

> I am embarrassed (being a medical professional) that it took me so many years

to figure out what is basically wrong with me. I am at the end of my rope

emotionally, socially, spiritually and financially and don't know if I can hang

on much longer.

>

> I am hoping someone can help me figure out how to proceed without wasting a

lot of time and money. I am not thinking well and get so easily frustrated that

I am having difficulty just dealing with the obstacles of office staff

misunderstandings, etc. Other than that, I would appreciate any support that I

can get, especially of the " light at the end of the tunnel " variety, as I feel I

am ready to die but desperately don't want to.

>

> Thank you for reading this, and thank you for your thoughts. I hope to some

day feel well enough to offer my support to others with this insidious, cruel

disorder.

>

October 14, 2009

Hi amosnonore and welcome,

Your in the right place here the first 5 yrs I was sick after some testing they

told me I suffer from Major Depression and for the next 5 yrs I was on every dam

AD med on the market they tried one after the other it's a long story you can

read it at this link. Bottom line I was on Depressed but have low Testosterone

and once I started treatment I was back to work full time after being off work

on sick leave more then I was there.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239

I feel your lucky your Psychiatrist did not give you Testosterone and wanted

more tests he is a smart Dr. As you can see in my story I went 23 yrs. on TRT

and not feeling 100% 4 yrs ago I figured out I am not Primary. Like all the dam

Dr.'s I have seen and there are a lot of them the worst ones were Endo's. I am

Secondary do to a head injury some 27 yrs ago in a auto accident. Now I treat

my other hormones that showed up for yrs as in the low normal range. I treat my

low Cortisol levels, Thyroid, Ferritin, Iron and Aldosterone.

Your Dr. wants to see if your Secondary meaning your Pituitary is not tell your

body to make hormones. So he ordered a Prolactin test if your high then you

would need an MRI on your pituitary to rule out a tumor this is rare to be

cancer.

You have lasted this long a few weeks more so you know why your so low is well

worth it. Most Dr. see men low like this and just put them on TRT not checking

to see why they are so dam low. I feel this is criminal.

Once they find out why your low be it your testis don't work or your pituitary

is bad and you go on treatment you will be fine. You need to test your LH and

FSH levels with a morning fasting Cortisol blood test men sick as long as you

have been have over worked Adrenals and need them treated this problem also goes

hand and hand with Thyroud and your TSH is low telling me your Pituitary might

be your problem. TSH is sent to your Thyroid to tell it to make more hormone.

So you also need more labs on your Thyroid get the following done.

That are in this link adding to it Total T4 and T3 for Thyroid.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=7059

To learn about how to do TRT goto Dr. 's site www.allthingsmale.com and Read

TRT: A Recipe for Success and read his HCG update he puts this out there free

for you and your Dr.

I if you can't find a Dr. that treats a lot of men for this problem. There are

Dr.'s you can fly out to see they only need to see you once then the rest they

do by phone. Or Dr. will work with your Dr. over the phone to test and

treat you. But lets see how things go with the Dr. you working with now to me

he sounds like he is a smart Dr.

We have a links and files section full of info like this link I am giving you to

read learn about this so you know your getting the right help.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

And don't let a Dr. give you shots every 2 or 4 weeks this is old and dose not

work in the AACE Guildlines it states on page 11 to do shots every 7 to 10 days

some of us do them 2x's a week to keep more leveled and to hold down Estradiol

levels.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

What you need to do when you go on TRT is to get your Total T levels up onto the

upper 1/3 of your labs range and to keep your Estradiol down to about 20 pg/ml

this works to keep you feeling good. And if your Cortisol levels are low 15 or

lower do a 4x's in a day Saliva Test to see what your rithum looks like.

If you need to treat your adrenals and Thyroid read this link on how I got

started doing this.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=24

One dam good Dr. you could see is in Ca. Dr. nco he is a psychiatrist but

feels most mental problems are due to Hormones. He only needs to see you once

and will do the rest by phone. I feel this guy is your best bet. He has a

fourm that is new.

http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php

Go there and read it also in the files section Hardasnails has a file full of

his posts to men at a forum for Men's Health most of the men there have low T

and he came there of info from them men about there hormones for his new book.

So because they helped him he helped them his posts could be a book.

Romeo no, M.D. (831) 375-6655 395 Del Monte Ctr #305 Monterey, CA 93940

262 Eldorado Street #100 physician, psychiatrist,Behavioral Neuroendocrinology

and Immunology (831) 626-9094 fax

Being a veterinarian your one up on most of us here and should not have a hard

time learning about this.

Once again welcome your in the right place.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: amosnomore <amosnomore@...>

> Subject: Miserable in Albuquerque

>

> Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 8:46 PM

> Hello all. I have read with

> great interest many of the stories posted here and am hoping

> that I have come to the right place for advice and support.

>

> I am a 51 year old male. I have been suffering from

> depression of varying severity my entire life, including

> childhood, and have always felt that something is

> fundamentally wrong with me that underlies the depression,

> as I have been minimally responsive to a wide range of

> antidepressant medications (and have had some of the worst

> experiences of my life with some of them).

>

> My life has deteriorated in so many ways in the last few

> years that I don't even know where to begin and don't want

> to take up too much of your time going into the details of

> my symptoms. Suffice it to say that I have recently

> figured out that I am suffering from hypogonadism and

> probably have been for most of my life. I feel like I

> never really completed puberty. I have had low libido

> my entire adult life and in the last few years it has become

> almost non-existent. I have never been married and

> have had very few sexual relationships in my life, none in

> the last 15 years. I have been led to believe that my

> chronic depression is at the root of this, but until lately

> have not been aware of an underlying cause for the

> depression, though I have been told that it may be genetic,

> related to poor diet and exercise habits, etc. I feel

> like I have been harmed by the treatment of various

> psychiatrists and neglected by primary care providers.

>

> I lost my job several years ago (I am a veterinarian), and

> have been unable to hold a full-time job since then mainly

> due to declining health and poor control over my

> moods. I have gained an awful lot of weight in the

> last two years with a concurrent loss of energy and

> increasing exercise intolerance. My mind is a shell of

> what it used to be. I have hot flashes frequently,

> ache all over, have to wake up to urinate every 1-2 hours at

> night and have trouble controlling my bladder during the

> day, among other problems. Although I have little

> interest in sex, I can get an erection, but it is hard to

> maintain. I masturbate maybe once or twice a month,

> mainly just to see if everything still works " down

> there " . My depression waxes and wanes but lately has

> been nearly unbearable, and I don't think a day has gone by

> in the last few years where thoughts of suicide haven't

> entered my mind.

>

> Anyways, I finally matched all of my symptoms with those of

> male hypogonadism. I told my psychiatrist (who I see

> through a local university health care system) what I

> thought and he ordered some bloodwork. My CBC and chem

> panel were unremarkable other than borderline high

> cholesterol and glucose. He added on tests for total

> and free testosterone, as well as TSH. My results:

>

> testosterone (total) 1.9 ng/mL (lab normal

> range 2.2-8.4)

> testosterone (free) 3.37 pg/mL (lab

> normal range 7.3-25)

> tsh

> 0.755 (lab normal range

> 0.4-4.5)

> glucose (fasting) 140

> (lab normal <140)

>

> I discussed the results with my psychiatrist several weeks

> ago and he recommended I start with a testosterone injection

> (200mg) until my primary care physician comes back from

> vacation in a month. He also ordered an endocrinology

> consult but said that it may be months before I can be

> seen. So I went in to the clinic today to get the

> injection, but was told that it wasn't available and that

> the doctor wanted to repeat my testosterone levels before he

> would let me start on testosterone. This time he

> ordered a prolactin level as well.

>

> I can't get a hold of this Dr. to ask him what he thinks is

> going on and why he ordered the prolactin test rather than

> LH, FSH, estradiol, etc. I need to find a doctor who

> is skilled at dealing with hypogonadism (my shrink admits

> that he has never heard of a connection between low

> testosterone and depression).

>

> My main question to this group is, does anyone know a

> specialist within the University of New Mexico health care

> system who is familiar with hypogonadism treatment? If

> not, can anyone refer me to a doctor in or near Albuquerque

> that would be worth spending what amounts to what little is

> left of my life savings to see?

>

> I am embarrassed (being a medical professional) that it

> took me so many years to figure out what is basically wrong

> with me. I am at the end of my rope emotionally,

> socially, spiritually and financially and don't know if I

> can hang on much longer.

>

> I am hoping someone can help me figure out how to proceed

> without wasting a lot of time and money. I am not

> thinking well and get so easily frustrated that I am having

> difficulty just dealing with the obstacles of office staff

> misunderstandings, etc. Other than that, I would

> appreciate any support that I can get, especially of the

> " light at the end of the tunnel " variety, as I feel I am

> ready to die but desperately don't want to.

>

> Thank you for reading this, and thank you for your

> thoughts. I hope to some day feel well enough to offer

> my support to others with this insidious, cruel disorder.

>

> ------------------------------------

>

October 14, 2009

Well said Most Dr's just don't get it.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: mbmom123 <dbkczar@...>

> Subject: Re: Miserable in Albuquerque

>

> Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 4:57 AM

> Welcome to the group, this

> knowledgeable bunch of guys will help you; they will guide

> you to the correct labs to get the correct conclusions--with

> proper s*x hormone testing--I am here seeking help for

> husband..

>

> My cat's vet knows more about thyroid issues than any MD I

> have ever seen ----so, from a testing standpoint,you may

> need more for thyroid (Free T3, Free T4 a place to start,

> lack of T3 leads to bad depression--shrinks should know that

> ..you can read about that link here:

>

> http://www.thyroid.ca/Articles/EngE10F.html

>

> Also, you can saliva test for adrenal status: I use ZRT but

> there are others: www.canaryclub.org

>

> Hang in there! You are in the right place to get some help

> figuring this all out...we are all here because medical docs

> don't get it..El

>

> ------------------------------------

>

October 14, 2009

Amos, you seem to have fallen victim of the medical system, I was

very

healthy until ten years ago, leukemia blind sided me, and the chemo

played

havoc

with my mind and body. But it gave me life, I first came

here some seven

years ago, got my testosterone and estrogen in balance. It's

a two way

street.

Not only must you get your T up, but E must be in

balance w/ the T. Most

say thirty to one ratio is best for men, and that is

when I feel my best.

The medical system breaks down as they do not understand

how the two

hormones work together. I can recall one of docters actually

laughed at me,

when I asked for an estrogen test. Fortunaely in my case, I

began

developing breasts, now a known side affect, and that alarmed me, I

felt

weak, hot flashes, and would tear up over nothing, I developed a voice

in my

head, that kept telling me, why go on??

In my personal opinion,

therapy, had three years and anti depressants are

good band aids, but not the

answer.

I had to take neupogen, a daily shot to boost my immune system,

through

trial and error, missing a shot here and there, I found my mood

levels

flucated dramatically, from totally empty to feeling on top of the

world.

By luck, I found Naltraxone, a drug normally given to alcoholics in 50

and

100mg dosages, it covers opiate receptors, hence no drugs have any

affect,

and assists drug addicts to find there way out. However, a couple

God Sent

Docks discovered, if we take very tiny amounts daily, it upregulates

the

immune system.

I read all the lit, ordered some from ADC, an wahoo, my

whole life changed.

It comes in 50mg tabs, I dissolve in 12 cc's of bac

water, which is ninety

eight percent water and the remainder consumable

alcohol, I use everclear,

to keep bacteria and fungus at bay.

I take 1cc

of water ie, 4mgs N nightly, most folks start out at a lower

dose, using

headaches as an indicator of overdose, and work up. Max dose is

4.5mg, LDN,

low dose naltraxone, is awesome, I went through some emotional

roller

coasters, anxiety, depression, and little things I cannot explain.

But I

noticed I was socializing more, and felt more energetic after a

couple

weeks. All sides were minor, and most folks never have any, so I

read. I

was looking for them, and I found them.

I had psorisis, COPD,

blood glucose problems, low white and red blood

counts, bleeding gums, 5500

cancer marker readings, using arimidex to keep

estrogen down.

yeast and

fungal infection were the norm. But my tallywhacker was fine as I

keep my T

and E at a thirty to one ratio. I was taking wellbutrim, effexor,

and

provogil AD's.

Six months from starting, my psorisis is gone, gums are tight,

no bleeding,

so heart is protected from oral bacteria, cancer markers are

down to 3300,

still take 100 T shot once a week, but need no arimidex to keep

E down. My

blood glucose levels are very normal, I no longer require insulin

for type

II diabeties. Blood oxygen levels have increased from high eighties

to

ninety seven. I have my own meter. My white and red blood cell levels

are

still down, but my neutrophils are abover average. Leukemia causes the

bone

marrow to turn into something that looks like a hard spider web, and

of

course cannot produce blood products.

But I have had no illness over

the last six months. I keep HGH in the

fridge, very, very expensive, which

dramatically increases my blood count. I

now take one effexor, one wellbutrim

and no provigil. I no longer require

celebrex for OA, but still need

ibeprophen on occasion. I may be able to do

away with them, but I have an

overt fear of those self harming feelings, My

oncologist think I am crazy to

take HGH with cancer. Oh how we fall victim

to street talk about abuse of

steriods, and growth hormones.

A general warning, if you take thyroid

medications when taking LDN, you will

find yourself reducing your dosage

dramatically, LDN balances hormones, and

also thyroid production. LDN

increases the growth of fungus/yeast, so I

take a generic anti-fungal

medication every other day, which I get from ADC.

I also began taking

ALA, alpha lopoic acid, " NOW " brand, a kick in the

pants, I felt it like a

nostril full of cocaine, all over my body, it is

purported to help at the

cellular level, mitchondria,

with glucose conversion to energy. I began

prespiring after the first dose,

and that kept up for two days, and went

away, all I am left with is more

energy.

killer stuff as they say on the

street.

LDN is awesome for any autoimmune disease, has a great following

among some

docks, even fertility docks praise it, as it stops PG diabeties,

and the

child is born healthy.

I read on MED PUB, in order for lungs to

heal, there has to be an increase

in that part of the immune system, that

protects the body, from the immune

sysem itself.

which goes along with

LDN protects from autoimmune diseases, RA, OA,

crohn's, IBS, MS and on and

on.

Costs of all this is about twenty five bux a month, most of the costs

is

ALA. Plug in LDN in google, join the LDN groups to learn

more.

I am at dhallgar@...

if I can answer any questions.

kind regards david

----- Original

Message -----

From: " amosnomore " <amosnomore@...>

To:

< >

Sent:

Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:46 PM

Subject: Miserable in

Albuquerque

> Hello all. I have read with great interest many of

the stories posted

> here and am hoping that I have come to the right

place for advice and

> support.

>

> I am a 51 year old male.

I have been suffering from depression of varying

> severity my entire

life, including childhood, and have always felt that

> something is

fundamentally wrong with me that underlies the depression, as

> I have

been minimally responsive to a wide range of antidepressant

> medications

(and have had some of the worst experiences of my life with

> some of

them).

>

> My life has deteriorated in so many ways in the last few

years that I

> don't even know where to begin and don't want to take up

too much of your

> time going into the details of my symptoms. Suffice it

to say that I have

> recently figured out that I am suffering from

hypogonadism and probably

> have been for most of my life. I feel like I

never really completed

> puberty. I have had low libido my entire adult

life and in the last few

> years it has become almost non-existent. I

have never been married and

> have had very few sexual relationships in my

life, none in the last 15

> years. I have been led to believe that my

chronic depression is at the

> root of this, but until lately have not

been aware of an underlying cause

> for the depression, though I have been

told that it may be genetic,

> related to poor diet and exercise habits,

etc. I feel like I have been

> harmed by the treatment of various

psychiatrists and neglected by primary

> care providers.

>

> I

lost my job several years ago (I am a veterinarian), and have been

>

unable to hold a full-time job since then mainly due to declining health

>

and poor control over my moods. I have gained an awful lot of weight in

>

the last two years with a concurrent loss of energy and increasing

>

exercise intolerance. My mind is a shell of what it used to be. I have

>

hot flashes frequently, ache all over, have to wake up to urinate every

>

1-2 hours at night and have trouble controlling my bladder during the

day,

> among other problems. Although I have little interest in sex, I

can get

> an erection, but it is hard to maintain. I masturbate maybe

once or twice

> a month, mainly just to see if everything still works

" down there " . My

> depression waxes and wanes but lately has been nearly

unbearable, and I

> don't think a day has gone by in the last few years

where thoughts of

> suicide haven't entered my mind.

>

Anyways, I finally matched all of my symptoms with those of male

>

hypogonadism. I told my psychiatrist (who I see through a local

>

university health care system) what I thought and he ordered some

>

bloodwork. My CBC and chem panel were unremarkable other than

borderline

> high cholesterol and glucose. He added on tests for total

and free

> testosterone, as well as TSH. My results:

>

testosterone (total) 1.9 ng/mL (lab normal range 2.2-8.4)

>

testosterone (free) 3.37 pg/mL (lab normal range 7.3-25)

>

tsh 0.755 (lab normal range 0.4-4.5)

> glucose

(fasting) 140 (lab normal <140)

>

> I discussed the

results with my psychiatrist several weeks ago and he

> recommended I

start with a testosterone injection (200mg) until my primary

> care

physician comes back from vacation in a month. He also ordered an

>

endocrinology consult but said that it may be months before I can be

seen.

> So I went in to the clinic today to get the injection, but was

told that

> it wasn't available and that the doctor wanted to repeat my

testosterone

> levels before he would let me start on testosterone. This

time he ordered

> a prolactin level as well.

>

> I can't get a

hold of this Dr. to ask him what he thinks is going on and

> why he

ordered the prolactin test rather than LH, FSH, estradiol, etc. I

> need

to find a doctor who is skilled at dealing with hypogonadism (my

> shrink

admits that he has never heard of a connection between low

> testosterone

and depression).

>

> My main question to this group is, does anyone

know a specialist within

> the University of New Mexico health care system

who is familiar with

> hypogonadism treatment? If not, can anyone refer

me to a doctor in or

> near Albuquerque that would be worth spending what

amounts to what little

> is left of my life savings to

see?

>

> I am embarrassed (being a medical professional) that it

took me so many

> years to figure out what is basically wrong with me. I

am at the end of

> my rope emotionally, socially, spiritually and

financially and don't know

> if I can hang on much longer.

>

I am hoping someone can help me figure out how to proceed without

wasting

> a lot of time and money. I am not thinking well and get so

easily

> frustrated that I am having difficulty just dealing with the

obstacles of

> office staff misunderstandings, etc. Other than that, I

would appreciate

> any support that I can get, especially of the " light at

the end of the

> tunnel " variety, as I feel I am ready to die but

desperately don't want

> to.

>

> Thank you for reading this,

and thank you for your thoughts. I hope to

> some day feel well enough to

offer my support to others with this

> insidious, cruel

disorder.

>

------------------------------------

>

Links

>

( ID required)

>

mailto: -fullfeatured

>

> From: amosnomore@...

> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:46:57 +0000