Re: What could be causing this?

September 11, 2009

Hi Doug and Welcome,

Your at the right place I must tell you we don't have much luck seeing an Endo

or even a Uro they are not good Dr.'s for low Testosterone.

Clomid is not a good treatment for low testosterone it has some dam bad sides

one is Eye Floaters that if not caught in time don't go away. We do have one

guy here on Clomid for TRT that says he is doing fine.

In the AACE Guildlines they use Clomid to test to see of one has a Pituitary

Problem. Please read this.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

I feel after looking at your labs things show you might have a Pituitary problem

and need to have an MRI done on it to rule out a tumor this is rare to be

cancer.

I have a Pituitary Problem but due to a head injury some 27 yrs ago in an auto

accident. It took me 23 yrs on TRT not feeling good to figure this out you can

read my story at this link.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239

After this accident about 6 months later I started to get sick with Fatigue and

feelings of Depression after some testing I was told I suffer from Major

Depression and had to go along with this crap because I was off work on sick

leave. I lost 5 yrs of my life all doped on them Anti-Depressant meds.

It's all in my story. After finding out my Pituitary dose not work right. My

new Dr. went over my old labs and they were screaming a Pituitary Problem.

Now today I treat over and above the low Testosterone my low Cortisol, Thyroid,

Ferritin and Aldosterone levels.

I have done every kind of TRT and found, do to my Thyroid problems I have a

thicker skin so Patches, Creams and Gels don't work to keep my levels up they

don't get through my skin.

So I do Testosterone shots but I eat up the testosterone as fast as I take it.

And needing higher doses of testosterone it drives up my Estradiol levels and

this holds back all the good Testosterone does.

So I do a 80 mg. shot of 200 mgs/ml. of Depo Testosterone every 3 days. And to

keep my Testis working I do 400 IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between my

Testosterone shots. Doing this keeps me more leveled and holds down the

Estradiol levels. To keep my Estradiol in check I take Arimidex 1/4 of a 1 mg.

pill .25mgs every 3 days. If your Estradiol levels get to high you lose your

libido and get some bad ED problems I even had Panic Attacks for yrs nothing

worked until I got my Estradiol levels down just some 6 yrs ago.

The first thing to come back doing this was my night time and morning wood then

my ED stopped and my Libido came back up. I had Prostate problems this got much

better my Prostate went back down to a normal size. So many things were wrong

with me due to high levels of Estradiol I can't list them here I would all day

at it.

I am on Cortef HC for my low cortisol levels my Pituitary dose not tell my

Adrenals to make it. So I take 10 mgs in the morning about 5 am then at 9am I

take 5 mgs and 10 mgs at 1pm with lunch and 5 mgs at 6 pm. This keeps my body

supported from the lack of Cortisol I don't get. My Adrenals work fine they

just to get the message to make Cortisol.

I take Armour for my Thyroid but first I need to get my Adrenals supported with

Cortef we need Cortisol or HC to carry the Thyroid hormone out of the blood into

the cells. So first treat your low Adrenals then do your Thyroid.

The thing about Thyroid is you can go on meds for it and if you don't feel they

are helping just stop taking them your Thyroid will go back to what it was doing

before you tried the meds.

I take a lot of Armour 4 and a half grains 2 in the morning, 1.5 at noon and 1

at dinner.

I was on Florinef for my low Aldosterone levels with Sea Salt but after having

heart bypass sugary all I need to keep feeling better from low Aldosterone is to

take a tsp full of Sea Salt in my water I have a 24oz Stainless Steel canteen I

use to drink filtered water from. Don't drink water out of Plastic bottles they

leach Estrogen's into the water from the Plastic.

I take 200 mgs of Elemental Iron a day to keep my iron levels up your would feel

much better going on iron. I take Feosol Carbonyl Iron

http://www.amazon.com/Feosol-Carbonyl-Supplement-Therapy-Caplets/dp/B001G7QLSG/r\

ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & s=hpc & qid=1252682221 & sr=1-1

Three a day morning, noon and dinner.

Here is what I see in your labs not I am not a Dr. just a guy that has been

through a lot of Crap seeing the wrong Dr.'s and do this because I don't want to

see anyone go through the crap I did.

Your Ferritin levels are very low 17 is what I was at and your

WBC is low 5.3

RBC is low 5.91

Hemoglobin is low 15.3 the Optimal range is the upper end.

Hematocrit is low 45.6 the Optimal range is the upper end.

MCB is low 77

MCH is low 25.9

All of the above shows me our suffering from Anemia.

Your Glucose is low shows me your suffering form low sugar this happens with low

Cortisol levels yours are low 11.6 I am betting you don't sleep good at night

you can wake up in the middle of the night in a sweat do to low levels of sugar.

To help with this eat a piece of meat or cheese before going to bed and keep

some on your night stand so if needed you can take it this wakes you up.

Your need now to do a 4x's in a day Salva test to see what Stage of Adrenal

Fatigue your in.

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%201%20.html

This is a FAQ's I helped do about Adrenals read this it's full of info and how

to take HC for this.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=256

A lot of Dr.'s don't feel this is a problem and will not treat this read this

link from the best parts of Dr. Jefferies book " Safe Uses of Cortisol " he is the

man that discovered this and is the top man about it.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/safe-uses

I and others here find the best Dr.'s for this problem are DO Dr.'s

http://www.geocities.com/chrisgjsbcglobal (DOT) net/Osteopaths.html

My PC crashed in the middle of this reply lost a lot of it so if I have been at

it over an hr.

Anyway here is a good link about high levels of Estradiol E2 I see they did not

test this you need this tested before you do an MRI on your Pituitary. High

levels of E2 fool the brain into thinking it's Testosterone and it will slow

downt the messages of LH and FSH sent to your Tesit from your Pituitary to make

more Testosterone. So do a Quest labs E2 test #4021 the range is 14 to 54 if

your over 30 pg/ml then getting your E2 levels down can bring up your

Testosterone levels. So if your high get this down and retest your

Testosterone, LH and FSH and Estradiol levels if your still low on LH and FSH

with Testosterone get an MRI done on your Pituitary.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/nov2008_Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Ag\

ing-Male_01.htm

The following is a good link about low Testosterone and high Estradiol you need

to learn about this so when you see a Dr. you will know if he is doing right by

you.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

If you need to treat your Adrenals and Thyroid and I think you do here is a link

on how I got started.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=24

I know your not feeling well and this is a lot of info so take your time and

learn about this.

I read read this it looks like it's got every thing I wanted to say but if you

need more info like tests and meds just ask.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: dougballard@... <dougballard@...>

> Subject: What could be causing this?

>

> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:18 PM

> Just trying to find some help. I am a

> 35 year old male, I 'm 30-40 pounds overweight but not

> obese. I believe I've suffered from fatigue and depression

> most of my life but it's been getting worse recently. List

> of symptoms: depression (diagnosed dysthymia), ADHD without

> hyperactivity, always hot, sweat a lot, memory loss, dry

> areas of skin, aches and pains and more. I am going to an

> Endo now and he wants me to take Clomid for Low

> Testosterone. He doesn't think I have a pituitary, thyroid

> or adrenal problem and I'm not sure I agree. Here's a

> link to a spreadsheet I put together of all my labs. I would

> greatly appreciate any feedback and advice.

>

> http://inetanywhere.com/labresults.htm

>

> Thank you!

>

> Doug

>

> ------------------------------------

>

September 11, 2009

Philip,

I will have to go back through this a couple of times but thank you so much for

the info. I know I'm not mistaken my problems and it's so nice to talk to

others that understand. I want to find a good doc hear in Las Vegas. I really

like my Endo but he doesn't get it. he didn't even mention my low ferritin in

my visit yesterday. I only found out once I looked at my lab results which I

always ask for.

What would be your next step, more labs, find a DO?

Thanks again,

Doug

>

> > From: dougballard@... <dougballard@...>

> > Subject: What could be causing this?

> >

> > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:18 PM

> > Just trying to find some help. I am a

> > 35 year old male, I 'm 30-40 pounds overweight but not

> > obese. I believe I've suffered from fatigue and depression

> > most of my life but it's been getting worse recently. List

> > of symptoms: depression (diagnosed dysthymia), ADHD without

> > hyperactivity, always hot, sweat a lot, memory loss, dry

> > areas of skin, aches and pains and more. I am going to an

> > Endo now and he wants me to take Clomid for Low

> > Testosterone. He doesn't think I have a pituitary, thyroid

> > or adrenal problem and I'm not sure I agree. Here's a

> > link to a spreadsheet I put together of all my labs. I would

> > greatly appreciate any feedback and advice.

> >

> > http://inetanywhere.com/labresults.htm

> >

> > Thank you!

> >

> > Doug

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

September 11, 2009

Doug take your time in the mean time I have a dam good Dr. for you to see he is

in Ca. and does not take insurance but only needs to see you once then he will

test and treat you by Email. I have been talking to him for yrs at a forum he

came to needing info for the men with low testosterone for his new book so we

helped him he helped us.

Now he has his own Forum here is a link.

http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php

When his book comes out it will change the way Dr.'s treat mental problems he

feels most of them are due to low hormones. Go join is forum and read it. Here

is is info from the Database section.

Romeo no, M.D. (831) 375-6655 395 Del Monte Ctr #305 Monterey, CA 93940

262 Eldorado Street #100 physician, psychiatrist,Behavioral Neuroendocrinology

and Immunology (831) 626-9094 fax

When I tell you he is the best of the best I mean it. He helped me a lot men

fly in to see him from all over the world.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: dougballard@... <dougballard@...>

> Subject: Re: What could be causing this?

>

> Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 3:55 PM

> Philip,

> I will have to go back through this a couple of times but

> thank you so much for the info. I know I'm not

> mistaken my problems and it's so nice to talk to others that

> understand. I want to find a good doc hear in Las

> Vegas. I really like my Endo but he doesn't get

> it. he didn't even mention my low ferritin in my visit

> yesterday. I only found out once I looked at my lab

> results which I always ask for.

>

> What would be your next step, more labs, find a DO?

>

> Thanks again,

> Doug

>

> >

> > > From: dougballard@... <dougballard@...>

> > > Subject: What could be causing

> this?

> > >

> > > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:18 PM

> > > Just trying to find some help. I am a

> > > 35 year old male, I 'm 30-40 pounds overweight

> but not

> > > obese. I believe I've suffered from fatigue and

> depression

> > > most of my life but it's been getting worse

> recently. List

> > > of symptoms: depression (diagnosed dysthymia),

> ADHD without

> > > hyperactivity, always hot, sweat a lot, memory

> loss, dry

> > > areas of skin, aches and pains and more. I am

> going to an

> > > Endo now and he wants me to take Clomid for Low

> > > Testosterone. He doesn't think I have a

> pituitary, thyroid

> > > or adrenal problem and I'm not sure I

> agree. Here's a

> > > link to a spreadsheet I put together of all my

> labs. I would

> > > greatly appreciate any feedback and advice.

> > >

> > > http://inetanywhere.com/labresults.htm

> > >

> > > Thank you!

> > >

> > > Doug

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

September 11, 2009

Sounds encouraging. Anyone else in here been to see him?

Thanks,

Doug

> > >

> > > > From: dougballard@ <dougballard@>

> > > > Subject: What could be causing

> > this?

> > > >

> > > > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:18 PM

> > > > Just trying to find some help. I am a

> > > > 35 year old male, I 'm 30-40 pounds overweight

> > but not

> > > > obese. I believe I've suffered from fatigue and

> > depression

> > > > most of my life but it's been getting worse

> > recently. List

> > > > of symptoms: depression (diagnosed dysthymia),

> > ADHD without

> > > > hyperactivity, always hot, sweat a lot, memory

> > loss, dry

> > > > areas of skin, aches and pains and more. I am

> > going to an

> > > > Endo now and he wants me to take Clomid for Low

> > > > Testosterone. He doesn't think I have a

> > pituitary, thyroid

> > > > or adrenal problem and I'm not sure I

> > agree. Here's a

> > > > link to a spreadsheet I put together of all my

> > labs. I would

> > > > greatly appreciate any feedback and advice.

> > > >

> > > > http://inetanywhere.com/labresults.htm

> > > >

> > > > Thank you!

> > > >

> > > > Doug

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

September 11, 2009

You will find some men that see him at this forum

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

Just join there and post you should get some replays.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: dougballard@... <dougballard@...>

> Subject: Re: What could be causing this?

>

> Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 5:06 PM

> Sounds encouraging. Anyone else

> in here been to see him?

>

> Thanks,

> Doug

>

> > > >

> > > > > From: dougballard@

> <dougballard@>

> > > > > Subject: What could be

> causing

> > > this?

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009,

> 6:18 PM

> > > > > Just trying to find some help. I am a

> > > > > 35 year old male, I 'm 30-40 pounds

> overweight

> > > but not

> > > > > obese. I believe I've suffered from

> fatigue and

> > > depression

> > > > > most of my life but it's been getting

> worse

> > > recently. List

> > > > > of symptoms: depression (diagnosed

> dysthymia),

> > > ADHD without

> > > > > hyperactivity, always hot, sweat a lot,

> memory

> > > loss, dry

> > > > > areas of skin, aches and pains and

> more. I am

> > > going to an

> > > > > Endo now and he wants me to take Clomid

> for Low

> > > > > Testosterone. He doesn't think I have

> a

> > > pituitary, thyroid

> > > > > or adrenal problem and I'm not sure I

> > > agree. Here's a

> > > > > link to a spreadsheet I put together of

> all my

> > > labs. I would

> > > > > greatly appreciate any feedback and

> advice.

> > > > >

> > > > > http://inetanywhere.com/labresults.htm

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you!

> > > > >

> > > > > Doug

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

September 11, 2009

Phil,

I read your story and it's nice to talk to someone who understands. Sorry it

took so long to get real help.

Where do I start? Would you recommend going to see your doc first or go see

another to get more labs and possibly mri? Does your doc do MRI if he suspects

pituitary problem? I am anxious to get this taken care of. I feel like I can't

keep doing my day to day life much longer. Just keep pushing and somehow

getting enough done to survive.

Thanks!

Doug

> > >

> > > > From: dougballard@ <dougballard@>

> > > > Subject: What could be causing

> > this?

> > > >

> > > > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:18 PM

> > > > Just trying to find some help. I am a

> > > > 35 year old male, I 'm 30-40 pounds overweight

> > but not

> > > > obese. I believe I've suffered from fatigue and

> > depression

> > > > most of my life but it's been getting worse

> > recently. List

> > > > of symptoms: depression (diagnosed dysthymia),

> > ADHD without

> > > > hyperactivity, always hot, sweat a lot, memory

> > loss, dry

> > > > areas of skin, aches and pains and more. I am

> > going to an

> > > > Endo now and he wants me to take Clomid for Low

> > > > Testosterone. He doesn't think I have a

> > pituitary, thyroid

> > > > or adrenal problem and I'm not sure I

> > agree. Here's a

> > > > link to a spreadsheet I put together of all my

> > labs. I would

> > > > greatly appreciate any feedback and advice.

> > > >

> > > > http://inetanywhere.com/labresults.htm

> > > >

> > > > Thank you!

> > > >

> > > > Doug

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

September 11, 2009

>

> Just trying to find some help. I am a 35 year old male, I 'm 30-40 pounds

overweight but not obese. I believe I've suffered from fatigue and depression

most of my life but it's been getting worse recently. List of symptoms:

depression (diagnosed dysthymia), ADHD without hyperactivity, always hot, sweat

a lot, memory loss, dry areas of skin, aches and pains and more. I am going to

an Endo now and he wants me to take Clomid for Low Testosterone. He doesn't

think I have a pituitary, thyroid or adrenal problem and I'm not sure I agree.

Here's a link to a spreadsheet I put together of all my labs. I would greatly

appreciate any feedback and advice.

>

> http://inetanywhere.com/labresults.htm

Hi,

I'd agree that clomid probably isn't a good solution.

you're a bit anemic...try a megavitamin with minerals (for men... it'll have

zinc then) and a B-12 shot once a month

how's your diet?

and why not raise testosterone WITH testosterone?

if aromataze (estrogen conversion) is a issue then control it with arimidex?

September 12, 2009

I feel you need a good Dr. Dr. M is not my Dr. I live in Mi. If I would afford

it I would fly out to see Dr. M he is a good friend I met on the Forums. The

best thing you can do for your self is to see a good Dr. like Dr. M one that is

up on these problems. Go to the Files section at the home page and read the file

nco7.zip. In this are a ton of the posts Dr. M did at the site I met him

at so read them this will help you to understand what a great Dr. he is.

I got my problems with my health fixed going to forums like this one here and

others where I met some dam good people that helped me. If it were not for men

here helping me yrs. ago I can't say I would be here now.

So all I am doing is passing it forward they all helped me and now I help

others. Your on the right track now you have some dam good info about what

might be wrong with you. Now it about seeing a good Dr. as you can see in my

story I seen a lot of Dr.'s they were all good but not up on my problem.

If you can get to see Dr. M there are other Dr.'s out there in the files section

we have a file called " Finding a Male Hormone Dr. " this also well help you and

in the Database section we have a Physician Reference full of Dr.'s men see that

have been here or are still here.

Some people can't afford to see Dr. M but most find a way to get to him I feel

he is your best bet.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: dougballard@... <dougballard@...>

> Subject: Re: What could be causing this?

>

> Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:27 PM

> Phil,

> I read your story and it's nice to talk to someone who

> understands. Sorry it took so long to get real help.

>

> Where do I start? Would you recommend going to see

> your doc first or go see another to get more labs and

> possibly mri? Does your doc do MRI if he suspects

> pituitary problem? I am anxious to get this taken care

> of. I feel like I can't keep doing my day to day life

> much longer. Just keep pushing and somehow getting

> enough done to survive.

>

> Thanks!

> Doug

>

> > > >

> > > > > From: dougballard@

> <dougballard@>

> > > > > Subject: What could be

> causing

> > > this?

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009,

> 6:18 PM

> > > > > Just trying to find some help. I am a

> > > > > 35 year old male, I 'm 30-40 pounds

> overweight

> > > but not

> > > > > obese. I believe I've suffered from

> fatigue and

> > > depression

> > > > > most of my life but it's been getting

> worse

> > > recently. List

> > > > > of symptoms: depression (diagnosed

> dysthymia),

> > > ADHD without

> > > > > hyperactivity, always hot, sweat a lot,

> memory

> > > loss, dry

> > > > > areas of skin, aches and pains and

> more. I am

> > > going to an

> > > > > Endo now and he wants me to take Clomid

> for Low

> > > > > Testosterone. He doesn't think I have

> a

> > > pituitary, thyroid

> > > > > or adrenal problem and I'm not sure I

> > > agree. Here's a

> > > > > link to a spreadsheet I put together of

> all my

> > > labs. I would

> > > > > greatly appreciate any feedback and

> advice.

> > > > >

> > > > > http://inetanywhere.com/labresults.htm

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you!

> > > > >

> > > > > Doug

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

September 13, 2009

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:18:49 -0000, you wrote:

>Just trying to find some help. I am a 35 year old male, I 'm 30-40 pounds

overweight but not obese. I believe I've suffered from fatigue and depression

most of my life but it's been getting worse recently. List of symptoms:

depression (diagnosed dysthymia), ADHD without hyperactivity, always hot, sweat

a lot, memory loss, dry areas of skin, aches and pains and more. I am going to

an Endo now and he wants me to take Clomid for Low Testosterone. He doesn't

think I have a pituitary, thyroid or adrenal problem and I'm not sure I agree.

Here's a link to a spreadsheet I put together of all my labs. I would greatly

appreciate any feedback and advice.

>

>http://inetanywhere.com/labresults.htm

>

>Thank you!

>

>Doug

>

You should get an estradiol E2 test before starting Clomid, IMHO. Many

men get low T from high E2. It's particularly a problem for guys who

are overweight. The enzyme, aromotase, that converts T to E2 is more

abundant in fat cells.

Some manage a 200 to 300 total T increase by merely controlling E2

conversion.

September 13, 2009

I strongly urge you to get an overnight sleep study. You may very well have

sleep apnea. Apnea gets worse, for whatever reason, when we are on TRT. In

turn, the apnea will cause every other sort of condition to worsen. You can not

beat it with medication, not at all.

Tom

>

> >Just trying to find some help. I am a 35 year old male, I 'm 30-40 pounds

overweight but not obese. I believe I've suffered from fatigue and depression

most of my life but it's been getting worse recently. List of symptoms:

depression (diagnosed dysthymia), ADHD without hyperactivity, always hot, sweat

a lot, memory loss, dry areas of skin, aches and pains and more. I am going to

an Endo now and he wants me to take Clomid for Low Testosterone. He doesn't

think I have a pituitary, thyroid or adrenal problem and I'm not sure I agree.

Here's a link to a spreadsheet I put together of all my labs. I would greatly

appreciate any feedback and advice.

> >

> >http://inetanywhere.com/labresults.htm

> >

> >Thank you!

> >

> >Doug

> >

>

> You should get an estradiol E2 test before starting Clomid, IMHO. Many

> men get low T from high E2. It's particularly a problem for guys who

> are overweight. The enzyme, aromotase, that converts T to E2 is more

> abundant in fat cells.

>

> Some manage a 200 to 300 total T increase by merely controlling E2

> conversion.

>

September 21, 2009

Well, I have an appointment scheduled with Dr. no at the end of next month.

Hopefully it's worth the trip.