Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

[Guest guest]

Well I don't know what you took but I can tell you after being told I was

primary for 23yrs. I added in HCG shots 500 IU's 3 times a week after my 15th.

shot we tested my TT went from 600 to 1200 so I am secondary. We now know it is

due to a head injury from an auto accadent some 25 yrs ago. So all I can tell

you is try this and see what happens.

kissie@... wrote: I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is

my understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

I think you do have a point to make.

However, it maybe that the specific dose for you, is

high. We are all different, but to make sure you need

to get an MRI done on your Pituitary and an Ultrasound

done on your testes. On top, you need to fix the

dosage(s) you take, so that you come in the range, on

the top, not above it.

Are your testicles small?

--- kissie@... wrote:

> I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my

> understanding

> if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would

> not increase

> my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building

> product for a month

> along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to

> increase my Free and Total T which would increase

> libido and give firmer erections.

> After using this product for a month or more my

> Total T went from

> 700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T

> went off the charts. They only measured it up to 53

> so they marked it either >53

> or 53>.

>

> Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of

> Primary?

> kissie

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

___________________________________________________________

Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it

now.

http://uk.answers./

[Guest guest]

's situation is more complicated due to pituitary gland damage long ago.

My guess he played football or had a motorcycle accident. I would suspect......

even the bad doctor I had ran a complete hormonal panel to see what hormones are

being affected besides testosterone.

For me, it was just low testosterone with a slight hint of thyroid shortage.

When the Leydig cells of the testes no longer respond to LH from the pituitary

gland to produce testosterone, this is an example of primary hypogonadism. If

you're up and down with hormones, all over the map, there may be a pituitary

issue. Then they do a MRI to check for pituitary tumors or damage (secondary).

Pituitary tumors are typically always benign. Even I have a small one but it

has nothing to do with my hypogonadism. But depending on the size and location

of the tumor will depend on what hormones it affects. If it were your adrenal

glands being affected for low Cortisol due to a pituitary tumor, you would have

Cushing's disease (example).

Anyway, looking at your numbers, and according to the lab I use, 300 is the

basement level for low normal. 1986 is off the chart and you may possibly be

producing too much testosterone (hypergonadism?). I can not draw any conclusions

other than I don't see a case of low testosterone with these numbers.

I would like to ask, what prompted you originally to get checked out to begin

with? Did you have symptoms? Mood swings, heat flashes, fits of depression,

anxiety? You were motivated for some reason(s) to get checked out and I'm

curious why because looking at these numbers your T is fine at 700 - 800. I wish

I had a number like that.

Secondly, and I hope this isn't the case for you although it has been the case

for me and others here, is that a lot of doctors are ill equipped to properly

treat complicated conditions like this. I have seen 5 doctors before I found a

doctor who, like me, is primary and has an understanding of the condition. With

a score between 700 - 800, I wouldn't tell you you were low much less give you a

shot for it. What else is going on?

kissie@... wrote:

I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

Hey Kissie - what was the product you were taking? Unless it was something that

mimics LH then this has no affect on whether you are primary or secondary. For

example, if you were taking a product that converts to T then the increase is

due strictly to the dosage of what you were taking. If you took something like

HCG which stimulates the testicles to make T, this would indicate your testicles

are still capable of making adequate T for your body.

Arkansas

kissie@... wrote:

I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

Dan:

This product stimulates the release of LH and bodybuilders use

it coming off a cycle of T. It is suppose to get their testicles working

again a lot faster than other methods. I do not know if I am allowed to give a

product name in this forum. Someone will have to lett me know.

This product does not replace LH like HCG. It gets the pituitary axis back to

normal. Or whatever that axis is called.

kissie

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

Hey Kissie - what was the product you were taking? Unless it was something

that mimics LH then this has no affect on whether you are primary or secondary.

For example, if you were taking a product that converts to T then the increase

is due strictly to the dosage of what you were taking. If you took something

like HCG which stimulates the testicles to make T, this would indicate your

testicles are still capable of making adequate T for your body.

Arkansas

kissie@... wrote:

I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

:

I started on Depo-T 20 years ago at age 42. At that time my complaint was low

libido and a long refractory period between ejackulations. At least a week. If I

had sex on Saturday I felt so bad on Monday sometimes I would even miss work. At

that time my total T checked

350 Range (249-827) or somehing similar. Either 249-827 or 249-825

not sure. I then took one shot monthly of 200mg Depo-T. Doctor gave shot not me.

I had low thyroid at that time also so that could have been the cause

of low T also.

kissie

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

's situation is more complicated due to pituitary gland damage long

ago. My guess he played football or had a motorcycle accident. I would

suspect...... even the bad doctor I had ran a complete hormonal panel to see

what hormones are being affected besides testosterone.

For me, it was just low testosterone with a slight hint of thyroid shortage.

When the Leydig cells of the testes no longer respond to LH from the pituitary

gland to produce testosterone, this is an example of primary hypogonadism. If

you're up and down with hormones, all over the map, there may be a pituitary

issue. Then they do a MRI to check for pituitary tumors or damage (secondary).

Pituitary tumors are typically always benign. Even I have a small one but it

has nothing to do with my hypogonadism. But depending on the size and location

of the tumor will depend on what hormones it affects. If it were your adrenal

glands being affected for low Cortisol due to a pituitary tumor, you would have

Cushing's disease (example).

Anyway, looking at your numbers, and according to the lab I use, 300 is the

basement level for low normal. 1986 is off the chart and you may possibly be

producing too much testosterone (hypergonadism?). I can not draw any conclusions

other than I don't see a case of low testosterone with these numbers.

I would like to ask, what prompted you originally to get checked out to begin

with? Did you have symptoms? Mood swings, heat flashes, fits of depression,

anxiety? You were motivated for some reason(s) to get checked out and I'm

curious why because looking at these numbers your T is fine at 700 - 800. I wish

I had a number like that.

Secondly, and I hope this isn't the case for you although it has been the case

for me and others here, is that a lot of doctors are ill equipped to properly

treat complicated conditions like this. I have seen 5 doctors before I found a

doctor who, like me, is primary and has an understanding of the condition. With

a score between 700 - 800, I wouldn't tell you you were low much less give you a

shot for it. What else is going on?

kissie@... wrote:

I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

Phil:

I got several vials of HCG from Dr in 2004 I think. All it did to me

was increase fluid retention and kill what little libido I had.

kissie

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

Well I don't know what you took but I can tell you after being told I was

primary for 23yrs. I added in HCG shots 500 IU's 3 times a week after my 15th.

shot we tested my TT went from 600 to 1200 so I am secondary. We now know it is

due to a head injury from an auto accadent some 25 yrs ago. So all I can tell

you is try this and see what happens.

kissie@... wrote: I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my

understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axis

kissie@... wrote: Dan:

This product stimulates the release of LH and bodybuilders use

it coming off a cycle of T. It is suppose to get their testicles working

again a lot faster than other methods. I do not know if I am allowed to give a

product name in this forum. Someone will have to lett me know.

This product does not replace LH like HCG. It gets the pituitary axis back to

normal. Or whatever that axis is called.

kissie

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

Hey Kissie - what was the product you were taking? Unless it was something that

mimics LH then this has no affect on whether you are primary or secondary. For

example, if you were taking a product that converts to T then the increase is

due strictly to the dosage of what you were taking. If you took something like

HCG which stimulates the testicles to make T, this would indicate your testicles

are still capable of making adequate T for your body.

Arkansas

kissie@... wrote:

I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

Kissie you can give the name as long as it is a legle supplement.

kissie@... wrote: Dan:

This product stimulates the release of LH and bodybuilders use

it coming off a cycle of T. It is suppose to get their testicles working

again a lot faster than other methods. I do not know if I am allowed to give a

product name in this forum. Someone will have to lett me know.

This product does not replace LH like HCG. It gets the pituitary axis back to

normal. Or whatever that axis is called.

kissie

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

Hey Kissie - what was the product you were taking? Unless it was something that

mimics LH then this has no affect on whether you are primary or secondary. For

example, if you were taking a product that converts to T then the increase is

due strictly to the dosage of what you were taking. If you took something like

HCG which stimulates the testicles to make T, this would indicate your testicles

are still capable of making adequate T for your body.

Arkansas

kissie@... wrote:

I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

Was it the brand name APP this did this to me and my T levels went down from

going up using Novarel.

kissie@... wrote: Phil:

I got several vials of HCG from Dr in 2004 I think. All it did to me

was increase fluid retention and kill what little libido I had.

kissie

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

Well I don't know what you took but I can tell you after being told I was

primary for 23yrs. I added in HCG shots 500 IU's 3 times a week after my 15th.

shot we tested my TT went from 600 to 1200 so I am secondary. We now know it is

due to a head injury from an auto accadent some 25 yrs ago. So all I can tell

you is try this and see what happens.

kissie@... wrote: I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my

understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

Here is the product I used:

a.. Increase Free Testosterone Levels

b.. Increase Strength and Muscle Hardness

c.. Decrease Bad (16-hydroxyestrogen) Estrogen

d.. Get Diesel Presents:

Diesel Test Hardcore

Grande Bolas

View it here:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/get/testhardcore.html

kissie

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

Hey Kissie - what was the product you were taking? Unless it was something

that mimics LH then this has no affect on whether you are primary or secondary.

For example, if you were taking a product that converts to T then the increase

is due strictly to the dosage of what you were taking. If you took something

like HCG which stimulates the testicles to make T, this would indicate your

testicles are still capable of making adequate T for your body.

Arkansas

kissie@... wrote:

I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

Yes, it was APP brand. No pharmacy around ever heard of HCG much less Novarel or

Pregnyl. I got the APP from Dewitt Pharmacy in Michigan. The one Dr used.

kissie

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

Well I don't know what you took but I can tell you after being told I was

primary for 23yrs. I added in HCG shots 500 IU's 3 times a week after my 15th.

shot we tested my TT went from 600 to 1200 so I am secondary. We now know it is

due to a head injury from an auto accadent some 25 yrs ago. So all I can tell

you is try this and see what happens.

kissie@... wrote: I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my

understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

Manterno;

My Endo did tests to check for Pituitary tumors. He did not find any.

He ran every test related to hypogonadism. I can not tell that my testicles have

shrunk in the last 20 years. If they have it has been so gradual that I did not

notice. They feel the same size to me as they did when I was young. They are the

size of a Black Walnut. My right testicle is 1 1/4 " wide by 2 " long. My left one

is 1 1/4 " wide by

1 3/4 " long.

kissie

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

I think you do have a point to make.

However, it maybe that the specific dose for you, is

high. We are all different, but to make sure you need

to get an MRI done on your Pituitary and an Ultrasound

done on your testes. On top, you need to fix the

dosage(s) you take, so that you come in the range, on

the top, not above it.

Are your testicles small?

--- kissie@... wrote:

> I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my

> understanding

> if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would

> not increase

> my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building

> product for a month

> along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to

> increase my Free and Total T which would increase

> libido and give firmer erections.

> After using this product for a month or more my

> Total T went from

> 700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T

> went off the charts. They only measured it up to 53

> so they marked it either >53

> or 53>.

>

> Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of

> Primary?

> kissie

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________________

Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it

now.

http://uk.answers./

__________ NOD32 2759 (20080101) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.

http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

A little history APP made Novarel and it was good for 8 weeks. They were

dropped by the lab they were making for. So they started making there own. My

Drug plain sent me APP after I was using Novarel witch is a generic. The APP

they sent me was 6 box's and on my next lab test my levels went from 1200 to 600

APP did not work. Also I did not get that feeling of well being I get with

Novarel we called the Health Care plain and they told me they had a lot of calls

about it and sent me Novarel. Later I heard APP pulled it and now it's out

again but I want nothing to do with it.

kissie@... wrote: Yes, it was APP brand. No pharmacy around

ever heard of HCG much less Novarel or Pregnyl. I got the APP from Dewitt

Pharmacy in Michigan. The one Dr used.

kissie

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

Well I don't know what you took but I can tell you after being told I was

primary for 23yrs. I added in HCG shots 500 IU's 3 times a week after my 15th.

shot we tested my TT went from 600 to 1200 so I am secondary. We now know it is

due to a head injury from an auto accadent some 25 yrs ago. So all I can tell

you is try this and see what happens.

kissie@... wrote: I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my

understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

Looks like some good stuff - based on the fact that it works to cause the

testicles to produce more - you may be secondary.

Does it keep you up at night? Some of the ingredients I have taken

individually and I couldn't sleep - wound me up like a clock.

Arkansas

kissie@... wrote:

Here is the product I used:

a.. Increase Free Testosterone Levels

b.. Increase Strength and Muscle Hardness

c.. Decrease Bad (16-hydroxyestrogen) Estrogen

d.. Get Diesel Presents:

Diesel Test Hardcore

Grande Bolas

View it here:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/get/testhardcore.html

kissie

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

Hey Kissie - what was the product you were taking? Unless it was something that

mimics LH then this has no affect on whether you are primary or secondary. For

example, if you were taking a product that converts to T then the increase is

due strictly to the dosage of what you were taking. If you took something like

HCG which stimulates the testicles to make T, this would indicate your testicles

are still capable of making adequate T for your body.

Arkansas

kissie@... wrote:

I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

Hey Kissie - what was the product you were taking? Unless it was something

that mimics LH then this has no affect on whether you are primary or secondary.

For example, if you were taking a product that converts to T then the increase

is due strictly to the dosage of what you were taking. If you took something

like HCG which stimulates the testicles to make T, this would indicate your

testicles are still capable of making adequate T for your body.

Arkansas

kissie@... wrote:

I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

Re: Primary or Secondary Question.

Well I don't know what you took but I can tell you after being told I was

primary for 23yrs. I added in HCG shots 500 IU's 3 times a week after my 15th.

shot we tested my TT went from 600 to 1200 so I am secondary. We now know it is

due to a head injury from an auto accadent some 25 yrs ago. So all I can tell

you is try this and see what happens.

kissie@... wrote: I was told I had Primary Hypogonadism. It is my

understanding

if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would not increase

my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building product for a month

along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to increase my Free and Total T

which would increase libido and give firmer erections.

After using this product for a month or more my Total T went from

700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T went off the charts. They

only measured it up to 53 so they marked it either >53

or 53>.

Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of Primary?

kissie

[Guest guest]

I want to add. When I took the Get Diesel Hardcore I took the high dose that is

on the label. I also stacked it with Twin Labs Horney Goat Weed. Twin Labs

Horney Goat Weed intensifies sexual arrousal.

I used it way before the Get Diesel Hardcore was invented. Orgasms are several

times stronger than without it. It also increases

T and reduces your refractory period. I have found if I take 4 capsules

twice a day I can have sex every day and my volume will be totally build up

within 24 hours. The ingredients of the goat weed is similar to

the Diesel Test Hardcore but increasing the Hardcore does not work as good as

the Twin Labs Horney Goat Weed. I have tried several brands of goat weed and

Twin Labs is the only brand avaialible that worked.

Walmart used to sell Revco brand and it was better than Twin Labs but

it has been removed from the market. Possibly because it worked so well. View

Twin Labs Horney Goat Weed ingredient here.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/tl/weed.html

Twin Labs Horney Goat Weed increases pleasure so much you can take 4 capsules

and an hour later eating is as enjoyable as having sex. Cherry Cheesecake taste

so good when using this stuff I could not beleive the pleasure I was getting

from the taste. Sex, while on this stuff, is several times better also.

[Guest guest]

Phil, hard to argue with labs on your levels.

I've noticed you seem much more in touch with how you feel and how

substances (both Rx and OTC affect your body). I don't know if that's

a good thing or bad. LOL.

Personally, I can't tell the difference between Novarel, Pregnyl, or

APP generic because I don't feel anything when using any of them.

Does this mean they work and I don't feel it, or they don't work which

is why I don't feel it...? Beats me. My nuts haven't shrunk on TRT,

so I think that's an indicator that the APP brand is doing something

for me. ;-)

On Jan 5, 2008, at 6:27 AM, philip georgian wrote:

> A little history APP made Novarel and it was good for 8 weeks. They

> were dropped by the lab they were making for. So they started

> making there own. My Drug plain sent me APP after I was using

> Novarel witch is a generic. The APP they sent me was 6 box's and on

> my next lab test my levels went from 1200 to 600 APP did not work.

> Also I did not get that feeling of well being I get with Novarel we

> called the Health Care plain and they told me they had a lot of

> calls about it and sent me Novarel. Later I heard APP pulled it and

> now it's out again but I want nothing to do with it.

>

> kissie@... wrote: Yes, it was APP brand. No

> pharmacy around ever heard of HCG much less Novarel or Pregnyl. I

> got the APP from Dewitt Pharmacy in Michigan. The one Dr used.

> kissie

>

[Guest guest]

In my case I feel it's low cortisol adding HCG gets your boys making T and they

make Pregnenolone this is at the top of the hormone tree and as it goes down

Cortisol goes up.

Dave <groupsdude@...> wrote: Phil, hard to argue with labs on

your levels.

I've noticed you seem much more in touch with how you feel and how

substances (both Rx and OTC affect your body). I don't know if that's

a good thing or bad. LOL.

Personally, I can't tell the difference between Novarel, Pregnyl, or

APP generic because I don't feel anything when using any of them.

Does this mean they work and I don't feel it, or they don't work which

is why I don't feel it...? Beats me. My nuts haven't shrunk on TRT,

so I think that's an indicator that the APP brand is doing something

for me. ;-)

On Jan 5, 2008, at 6:27 AM, philip georgian wrote:

> A little history APP made Novarel and it was good for 8 weeks. They

> were dropped by the lab they were making for. So they started

> making there own. My Drug plain sent me APP after I was using

> Novarel witch is a generic. The APP they sent me was 6 box's and on

> my next lab test my levels went from 1200 to 600 APP did not work.

> Also I did not get that feeling of well being I get with Novarel we

> called the Health Care plain and they told me they had a lot of

> calls about it and sent me Novarel. Later I heard APP pulled it and

> now it's out again but I want nothing to do with it.

>

> kissie@... wrote: Yes, it was APP brand. No

> pharmacy around ever heard of HCG much less Novarel or Pregnyl. I

> got the APP from Dewitt Pharmacy in Michigan. The one Dr used.

> kissie

>

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. "

Phil

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

APP???

--- kissie@... wrote:

> Yes, it was APP brand. No pharmacy around ever heard

> of HCG much less Novarel or Pregnyl. I got the APP

> from Dewitt Pharmacy in Michigan. The one Dr

> used.

> kissie

>

> Re: Primary or Secondary

> Question.

>

> Well I don't know what you took but I can tell you

> after being told I was primary for 23yrs. I added in

> HCG shots 500 IU's 3 times a week after my 15th.

> shot we tested my TT went from 600 to 1200 so I am

> secondary. We now know it is due to a head injury

> from an auto accadent some 25 yrs ago. So all I can

> tell you is try this and see what happens.

>

> kissie@... wrote: I was told I had

> Primary Hypogonadism. It is my understanding

> if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would

> not increase

> my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building

> product for a month

> along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to

> increase my Free and Total T which would increase

> libido and give firmer erections.

> After using this product for a month or more my

> Total T went from

> 700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T

> went off the charts. They only measured it up to 53

> so they marked it either >53

> or 53>.

>

> Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of

> Primary?

> kissie

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

> Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and

> only half of what you see. "

> Phil

>

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[Guest guest]

I think APP is a generic brand.

kissie

APP???

--- kissie@... wrote:

> Yes, it was APP brand. No pharmacy around ever heard

> of HCG much less Novarel or Pregnyl. I got the APP

> from Dewitt Pharmacy in Michigan. The one Dr

> used.

> kissie

>

> Re: Primary or Secondary

> Question.

>

> Well I don't know what you took but I can tell you

> after being told I was primary for 23yrs. I added in

> HCG shots 500 IU's 3 times a week after my 15th.

> shot we tested my TT went from 600 to 1200 so I am

> secondary. We now know it is due to a head injury

> from an auto accadent some 25 yrs ago. So all I can

> tell you is try this and see what happens.

>

> kissie@... wrote: I was told I had

> Primary Hypogonadism. It is my understanding

> if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would

> not increase

> my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building

> product for a month

> along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to

> increase my Free and Total T which would increase

> libido and give firmer erections.

> After using this product for a month or more my

> Total T went from

> 700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T

> went off the charts. They only measured it up to 53

> so they marked it either >53

> or 53>.

>

> Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of

> Primary?

> kissie

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

> Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and

> only half of what you see. "

> Phil

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them

> fast with Search.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

> __________ NOD32 2759 (20080101) Information

> __________

>

> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus

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> http://www.eset.com

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> [Non-text portions of this message have been

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>

> Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and

> only half of what you see. "

> Phil

>

> ---------------------------------

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>

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>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

And so is Novarel.

kissie@... wrote:

I think APP is a generic brand.

kissie

APP???

--- kissie@... wrote:

> Yes, it was APP brand. No pharmacy around ever heard

> of HCG much less Novarel or Pregnyl. I got the APP

> from Dewitt Pharmacy in Michigan. The one Dr

> used.

> kissie

>

> Re: Primary or Secondary

> Question.

>

> Well I don't know what you took but I can tell you

> after being told I was primary for 23yrs. I added in

> HCG shots 500 IU's 3 times a week after my 15th.

> shot we tested my TT went from 600 to 1200 so I am

> secondary. We now know it is due to a head injury

> from an auto accadent some 25 yrs ago. So all I can

> tell you is try this and see what happens.

>

> kissie@... wrote: I was told I had

> Primary Hypogonadism. It is my understanding

> if you are Primary then increased LH and FSH would

> not increase

> my Total and/or Free T. I took a body building

> product for a month

> along with my regular T shot. It was suppose to

> increase my Free and Total T which would increase

> libido and give firmer erections.

> After using this product for a month or more my

> Total T went from

> 700-800 (827-350) range to 1986(827-350) My free T

> went off the charts. They only measured it up to 53

> so they marked it either >53

> or 53>.

>

> Does this not suggest I am Secondary instead of

> Primary?

> kissie

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

> Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and

> only half of what you see. "

> Phil

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them

> fast with Search.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

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> __________

>

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> [Non-text portions of this message have been

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>

> Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and

> only half of what you see. "

> Phil

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

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