Guest guest Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Hi Randy have your Dr. check your Estradiol when mine is high my head itched and I got sores in it. Say the hell away from Propecia we have a lot of guys sick with low T and loss of sex life from using Propecia. http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/ I feel your DHT is fine I have had mine up over 4 times the top of the range on gels and no problems. My Dr. told me to that this. http://www.myvitanet.com/sawpaco120so.html It helps but get your Estradiol E2 checked. A test like this one. http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/sr012000.htm I have all kinds of problems when this is to high. Phil randy_mccaffrey <randy_mccaffrey@...> wrote: Two weeks ago I had my 6 month check up with my endro and mentioned to him that my scalp ofen itched and burned like a mild sun burn above my temples. I also noted that although male pattern bladness is not present on eathier side of my family, my hair line seems to be receeding some. I have been on TRT for a little over 4 years. I inject 75 mg test. cypionate once a week and 350 units HCG three times a week. Thyroid, total testosterone and DHT blood test was taken. Thyroid is normal, total Test was 650 and DHT was 74. According to the doctor's assistan who called me with the blood test results, the referance range for DHT is 25-75 and although my results was at the high end of normal the doctor wanted to chek it again at my next visit in 6 months. I faxed a not to my doctor and informed him that the day that blood was drawn for the test was the seventh day before my weekly test. injection and was it posible that my DHT was usually above 75 except just prior to my next injection. My doctor called me back and agreed that my DHT level may be to high and is scheduling new test at 3 1/2 days after my next injection. Here's the problem and my question. My endro stated that testosterone and DHT are directly related, to lower my DHT level he may modify (lower) my testosterone dosage. I feel pretty good maintaining my total T level between 600 - 900 and I really do not want to change my TRT. The only thing that i had found on the net to reduce DHT is a medication to reduce prostate enlargement and propicia (sp?) for hair loss. Does anyone have any informationor or advise about DHT reduction? Thanks, Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 I don't think you will see a suite every it is to hard to prove. You do need to have tests done at least every 6 months to be safe. Things on TRT can go wrong like blood levels getting thick. Phil randy_mccaffrey <randy_mccaffrey@...> wrote: Hi Phil, Thanks for the info and link. I haven't had my E2 checked in over a year because I feel really good most of the time and I awake to wood almost every morning. I do feel a little guilty complaining about hair loss etc. when a lot of guys are having trouble getting to where we are. As far as propecia goes... from what I've heard and read there is no way that I'd ever try the stuff. I feel really bad for the guys hear who have been rally messed up by it without any idea what they were risking. I wonder if there will ever be a class action laws suite involving the stuff. There should be one in my opinion. Best, Randy > Two weeks ago I had my 6 month check up with my endro and mentioned > to him that my scalp ofen itched and burned like a mild sun burn > above my temples. I also noted that although male pattern bladness > is not present on eathier side of my family, my hair line seems to > be receeding some. > > I have been on TRT for a little over 4 years. I inject 75 mg test. > > cypionate once a week and 350 units HCG three times a week. > > Thyroid, total testosterone and DHT blood test was taken. Thyroid > is normal, total Test was 650 and DHT was 74. According to the > doctor's assistan who called me with the blood test results, the > referance range for DHT is 25-75 and although my results was at the > high end of normal the doctor wanted to chek it again at my next > visit in 6 months. I faxed a not to my doctor and informed him that > the day that blood was drawn for the test was the seventh day before > my weekly test. injection and was it posible that my DHT was usually > above 75 except just prior to my next injection. My doctor called > me back and agreed that my DHT level may be to high and is > scheduling new test at 3 1/2 days after my next injection. > > Here's the problem and my question. My endro stated that > testosterone and DHT are directly related, to lower my DHT level he > may modify (lower) my testosterone dosage. I feel pretty good > maintaining my total T level between 600 - 900 and I really do not > want to change my TRT. The only thing that i had found on the net > to reduce DHT is a medication to reduce prostate enlargement and > propicia (sp?) for hair loss. > > Does anyone have any informationor or advise about DHT reduction? > > Thanks, > > Randy > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Hello everyone, I finally got my DHT tested in addition to related reproductive hormones. All life factors other than slight family stress have been about the same with respect to diet, sleep, exercise, time of test, etc. These reference ranges are based on Life Extension's (LEF) Optimal references for Lab Corp Total T: 495 ng/dL (241-827 ng/dL) Free T: 9.0 pg/mL (9.3-26.5 pg/mL) DHT: 26 ng/dL (30-85 ng/dL - LEF advises 25-50, but that might be more relevant to older men than to me) Estradiol: 24 pg/mL (0-53 pg/mL - range not optimized by LEF) SHBG : 25 nmol/L (13-71 nmol/L) I suspected my DHT might be low (slow body hair/facial hair growth, ED), but my free T is lower than it's ever been. Phil, I recall that you had warned about soy consumption possibly lowering T production due to its message to the pituitary. Though it might lower E2, it also lower T. Studies I've read also indicate soy lowers DHT, but is that specific to DHT activity near the prostate? I'm going to try abstaining from soy & see if it changes my test results. ~Xian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 d00fu524 wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I finally got my DHT tested in addition to related reproductive > hormones. All life factors other than slight family stress have been > about the same with respect to diet, sleep, exercise, time of test, etc. > > These reference ranges are based on Life Extension's (LEF) Optimal > references for Lab Corp > > Total T: 495 ng/dL (241-827 ng/dL) > Free T: 9.0 pg/mL (9.3-26.5 pg/mL) > DHT: 26 ng/dL (30-85 ng/dL - LEF advises 25-50, but that might be > more relevant to older men than to me) > Estradiol: 24 pg/mL (0-53 pg/mL - range not optimized by LEF) In the novermber 2008 LEF magazine, they have a good article on estradiol and placed the optimum range at about 18-30. See my post of 10/11/2008 for a summary of the article - post titled " Dangers of Excess Estrogen In the Aging Male " > SHBG : 25 nmol/L (13-71 nmol/L) > > I suspected my DHT might be low (slow body hair/facial hair growth, > ED), but my free T is lower than it's ever been. > > Phil, I recall that you had warned about soy consumption possibly > lowering T production due to its message to the pituitary. Though it > might lower E2, it also lower T. Studies I've read also indicate soy > lowers DHT, but is that specific to DHT activity near the prostate? > I'm going to try abstaining from soy & see if it changes my test results. > > ~Xian -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Thanks Steve. I should have clarified that LEF did not include their optimal reference range on the lab printout itself, though they have posted such information in their magazines & elsewhere. > > > Estradiol: 24 pg/mL (0-53 pg/mL - range not optimized by LEF) > > In the novermber 2008 LEF magazine, they have a good article on > estradiol and placed the optimum range at about 18-30. See my post of > 10/11/2008 for a summary of the article - post titled " Dangers of Excess > Estrogen In the Aging Male " > > > Steve - dudescholar4@... > > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html > > " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march > to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 LEF. says the best levels are 10 to 30 we find it's best at around 20 in this link you will find the range. http://www.lef.org/protocols/appendix/blood_testing_01.htm Co-Moderator Phil > From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> > Subject: Re: DHT Question > > Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 6:06 PM > Thanks Steve. I should have clarified that LEF did not > include their > optimal reference range on the lab printout itself, though > they have > posted such information in their magazines & elsewhere. > > > > > > > > Estradiol: 24 pg/mL (0-53 pg/mL - range not > optimized by LEF) > > > > In the novermber 2008 LEF magazine, they have a good > article on > > estradiol and placed the optimum range at about 18-30. > See my post of > > 10/11/2008 for a summary of the article - post titled > " Dangers of > Excess > > Estrogen In the Aging Male " > > > > > > > Steve - dudescholar4@... > > > > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at > > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html > > > > " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our > march > > to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 The interesting bit is that intestinal bacteria converts daidzein and genestain to equol, which acts as a very potent DHT blockade. Here's a copy of a post I made a while back. I've found 3 distinct issues with soy: 1) Goitrogenic - binds with iodine in stable compounds 2) Contains phytates - these reduce absorption of dietary minerals 3) Estrogenic - Considered to be an endocrine disruptor. Our earlier discussion was about point one. I believe it has been covered. Fermentation significantly reduces the goitrogenic properties. The phytate issue is important as well. Here are some data on that. http://www.veghealthguide.com/soy-tofu.html Cooking does reduce phytate contents; however, soy seems highly resistant to these cooking techniques. Fermentation to produce products like tempeh and miso does reduce phytate contents significantly. Tofu and bean curd remain high in phytate, as do TVP (textured vegetable protein) products. It looks like miso and tempeh are the safest ones with regards to phytates. On the third issue, the real concern isn't the phytoestrogens daidzein and genestain. Rather, it is equol, a novel antiandrogen. It is produced by the action of our intestinal bacteria on the phytoestrogens. This is not good for infants because it blocks the effects of DHT, which is very important for prepubertal sexual development in both genders. Great for guys with prostate cancer though! Here's the link on that. http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=15627582 So, in adults, moderate use of soy products containing phytoestrogens is OK. I'd have to dig a little further to find out if any cooking or other processing removes the phytoestrogens, but they are good for managing your lipid profile. Good health! -Mike > > > From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> > > Subject: DHT Question > > > > Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 3:10 PM > > Hello everyone, > > > > I finally got my DHT tested in addition to related > > reproductive > > hormones. All life factors other than slight family stress > > have been > > about the same with respect to diet, sleep, exercise, time > > of test, etc. > > > > These reference ranges are based on Life Extension's > > (LEF) Optimal > > references for Lab Corp > > > > Total T: 495 ng/dL (241-827 ng/dL) > > Free T: 9.0 pg/mL (9.3-26.5 pg/mL) > > DHT: 26 ng/dL (30-85 ng/dL - LEF advises 25-50, but that > > might be > > more relevant to older men than to me) > > Estradiol: 24 pg/mL (0-53 pg/mL - range not optimized by > > LEF) > > SHBG : 25 nmol/L (13-71 nmol/L) > > > > I suspected my DHT might be low (slow body hair/facial hair > > growth, > > ED), but my free T is lower than it's ever been. > > > > Phil, I recall that you had warned about soy consumption > > possibly > > lowering T production due to its message to the pituitary. > > Though it > > might lower E2, it also lower T. Studies I've read > > also indicate soy > > lowers DHT, but is that specific to DHT activity near the > > prostate? > > I'm going to try abstaining from soy & see if it > > changes my test results. > > > > ~Xian > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Yes, equol was what I was wondering about. Supposedly only 30% of people eating Western diets can convert Genistein to Equol (though whether this is due to inadequate complex carbohydrates/dietary intake or other reasons is unclear). I was wondering if Equol causes systemic decrease in DHT as measured by serum DHT. I took Saw Palmetto for 3 months in 2002 but I thought its actions of inhibiting 5-alpha reductase & blocking DHT on androgen receptors applied specifically to the prostate. I can't see how it would be affecting my DHT levels now. However, I have consumed soy almost daily for 2 years or so. I doubt my DHT was naturally low in light of abundant body & facial hair since I was 12-21. Thanks for your reply. ~Xian > > The interesting bit is that intestinal bacteria converts > daidzein and genestain to equol, which acts as a very > potent DHT blockade. > > Here's a copy of a post I made a while back. > > I've found 3 distinct issues with soy: > > 1) Goitrogenic - binds with iodine in stable compounds > > 2) Contains phytates - these reduce absorption of dietary minerals > > 3) Estrogenic - Considered to be an endocrine disruptor. > > Our earlier discussion was about point one. I believe it has > been covered. Fermentation significantly reduces the > goitrogenic properties. > > The phytate issue is important as well. Here are some data on > that. > > http://www.veghealthguide.com/soy-tofu.html > Cooking does reduce phytate contents; however, soy seems > highly resistant to these cooking techniques. Fermentation to > produce products like tempeh and miso does reduce phytate > contents significantly. Tofu and bean curd remain high in > phytate, as do TVP (textured vegetable protein) products. > > It looks like miso and tempeh are the safest ones with regards > to phytates. > > On the third issue, the real concern isn't the phytoestrogens > daidzein and genestain. Rather, it is equol, a novel antiandrogen. > It is produced by the action of our intestinal bacteria on the > phytoestrogens. > > This is not good for infants because it blocks the effects of DHT, > which is very important for prepubertal sexual development in > both genders. Great for guys with prostate cancer though! > > Here's the link on that. > http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=15627582 > > So, in adults, moderate use of soy products containing phytoestrogens > is OK. I'd have to dig a little further to find out if any cooking or > other processing removes the phytoestrogens, but they are good for > managing your lipid profile. > > Good health! > > -Mike > > > Phil, I recall that you had warned about soy consumption > > > possibly > > > lowering T production due to its message to the pituitary. > > > Though it > > > might lower E2, it also lower T. Studies I've read > > > also indicate soy > > > lowers DHT, but is that specific to DHT activity near the > > > prostate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hi Xian, The 5 alpha reductase inhibitors prevent testosterone from converting to DHT. They will in fact lower your DHT levels. Equol just acts as a blockade and keeps DHT from attaching to the receptors, especially in the prostate. Your serum levels should be unchanged by that. How are your T levels? If your testosterone levels have dropped, your DHT levels will as well. I had some whacky high estradiol levels when I was consuming massive quantities of soy. I've since switched my primary vegetable protein sources to hemp and rice proteins. Anyway, the only way I can see that you would wind up with lower serum levels of DHT as a result of consuming soy is that some of the phytoestrogens may be acting on the pituitary and lowering testosterone, which would lower DHT as well. > > > > The interesting bit is that intestinal bacteria converts > > daidzein and genestain to equol, which acts as a very > > potent DHT blockade. > > > > Here's a copy of a post I made a while back. > > > > I've found 3 distinct issues with soy: > > > > 1) Goitrogenic - binds with iodine in stable compounds > > > > 2) Contains phytates - these reduce absorption of dietary minerals > > > > 3) Estrogenic - Considered to be an endocrine disruptor. > > > > Our earlier discussion was about point one. I believe it has > > been covered. Fermentation significantly reduces the > > goitrogenic properties. > > > > The phytate issue is important as well. Here are some data on > > that. > > > > http://www.veghealthguide.com/soy-tofu.html > > Cooking does reduce phytate contents; however, soy seems > > highly resistant to these cooking techniques. Fermentation to > > produce products like tempeh and miso does reduce phytate > > contents significantly. Tofu and bean curd remain high in > > phytate, as do TVP (textured vegetable protein) products. > > > > It looks like miso and tempeh are the safest ones with regards > > to phytates. > > > > On the third issue, the real concern isn't the phytoestrogens > > daidzein and genestain. Rather, it is equol, a novel antiandrogen. > > It is produced by the action of our intestinal bacteria on the > > phytoestrogens. > > > > This is not good for infants because it blocks the effects of DHT, > > which is very important for prepubertal sexual development in > > both genders. Great for guys with prostate cancer though! > > > > Here's the link on that. > > http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=15627582 > > > > So, in adults, moderate use of soy products containing phytoestrogens > > is OK. I'd have to dig a little further to find out if any cooking or > > other processing removes the phytoestrogens, but they are good for > > managing your lipid profile. > > > > Good health! > > > > -Mike > > > > > Phil, I recall that you had warned about soy consumption > > > > possibly > > > > lowering T production due to its message to the pituitary. > > > > Though it > > > > might lower E2, it also lower T. Studies I've read > > > > also indicate soy > > > > lowers DHT, but is that specific to DHT activity near the > > > > prostate? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hello Mike, Thanks for the correction. For some reason I confused DHT blockade with decreased DHT production. With a low amount (26 ng/dL) of DHT circulating, I don't think I want to block DHT activity upon the receptors, either. My total T was higher than it has been at 495 ng/dL- certainly not hypogonadic level- though free T was at its lowest at 9.0 pg/mL. I suppose fluctuation should be expected as levels change quickly, but I find it surprising in light of similar variables (time of test, time of awakening, amount of sleep, diet, exercise routine, etc.). I will try hemp protein now that I am ditching soy. Thanks again. ~Xian > > > > > > The interesting bit is that intestinal bacteria converts > > > daidzein and genestain to equol, which acts as a very > > > potent DHT blockade. > > > > > > Here's a copy of a post I made a while back. > > > > > > I've found 3 distinct issues with soy: > > > > > > 1) Goitrogenic - binds with iodine in stable compounds > > > > > > 2) Contains phytates - these reduce absorption of dietary minerals > > > > > > 3) Estrogenic - Considered to be an endocrine disruptor. > > > > > > Our earlier discussion was about point one. I believe it has > > > been covered. Fermentation significantly reduces the > > > goitrogenic properties. > > > > > > The phytate issue is important as well. Here are some data on > > > that. > > > > > > http://www.veghealthguide.com/soy-tofu.html > > > Cooking does reduce phytate contents; however, soy seems > > > highly resistant to these cooking techniques. Fermentation to > > > produce products like tempeh and miso does reduce phytate > > > contents significantly. Tofu and bean curd remain high in > > > phytate, as do TVP (textured vegetable protein) products. > > > > > > It looks like miso and tempeh are the safest ones with regards > > > to phytates. > > > > > > On the third issue, the real concern isn't the phytoestrogens > > > daidzein and genestain. Rather, it is equol, a novel antiandrogen. > > > It is produced by the action of our intestinal bacteria on the > > > phytoestrogens. > > > > > > This is not good for infants because it blocks the effects of DHT, > > > which is very important for prepubertal sexual development in > > > both genders. Great for guys with prostate cancer though! > > > > > > Here's the link on that. > > > http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=15627582 > > > > > > So, in adults, moderate use of soy products containing phytoestrogens > > > is OK. I'd have to dig a little further to find out if any cooking or > > > other processing removes the phytoestrogens, but they are good for > > > managing your lipid profile. > > > > > > Good health! > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > Phil, I recall that you had warned about soy consumption > > > > > possibly > > > > > lowering T production due to its message to the pituitary. > > > > > Though it > > > > > might lower E2, it also lower T. Studies I've read > > > > > also indicate soy > > > > > lowers DHT, but is that specific to DHT activity near the > > > > > prostate? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hi Xian, You are most welcome. No worries. There is a lot of information to keep track of. The cool thing is that you are taking an active part in your treatment program. Hemp and rice protein are good stuff. I've actually started eating some fish and fowl again because my total cholesterol is down to 112 and I can't get it back into range just slugging down Flax oil... I don't know all of the pharmaconetics, but things started getting better when I mostly ditched soy. If you ever do develop non-estradiol related prostate problems, equol is a less invasive option than some of the pharmacological options. It does target the prostate. Much better than getting gynecomastia from some of the meds out there. -Mike > > > > > > > > The interesting bit is that intestinal bacteria converts > > > > daidzein and genestain to equol, which acts as a very > > > > potent DHT blockade. > > > > > > > > Here's a copy of a post I made a while back. > > > > > > > > I've found 3 distinct issues with soy: > > > > > > > > 1) Goitrogenic - binds with iodine in stable compounds > > > > > > > > 2) Contains phytates - these reduce absorption of dietary minerals > > > > > > > > 3) Estrogenic - Considered to be an endocrine disruptor. > > > > > > > > Our earlier discussion was about point one. I believe it has > > > > been covered. Fermentation significantly reduces the > > > > goitrogenic properties. > > > > > > > > The phytate issue is important as well. Here are some data on > > > > that. > > > > > > > > http://www.veghealthguide.com/soy-tofu.html > > > > Cooking does reduce phytate contents; however, soy seems > > > > highly resistant to these cooking techniques. Fermentation to > > > > produce products like tempeh and miso does reduce phytate > > > > contents significantly. Tofu and bean curd remain high in > > > > phytate, as do TVP (textured vegetable protein) products. > > > > > > > > It looks like miso and tempeh are the safest ones with regards > > > > to phytates. > > > > > > > > On the third issue, the real concern isn't the phytoestrogens > > > > daidzein and genestain. Rather, it is equol, a novel antiandrogen. > > > > It is produced by the action of our intestinal bacteria on the > > > > phytoestrogens. > > > > > > > > This is not good for infants because it blocks the effects of DHT, > > > > which is very important for prepubertal sexual development in > > > > both genders. Great for guys with prostate cancer though! > > > > > > > > Here's the link on that. > > > > http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=15627582 > > > > > > > > So, in adults, moderate use of soy products containing > phytoestrogens > > > > is OK. I'd have to dig a little further to find out if any > cooking or > > > > other processing removes the phytoestrogens, but they are good for > > > > managing your lipid profile. > > > > > > > > Good health! > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > Phil, I recall that you had warned about soy consumption > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > lowering T production due to its message to the pituitary. > > > > > > Though it > > > > > > might lower E2, it also lower T. Studies I've read > > > > > > also indicate soy > > > > > > lowers DHT, but is that specific to DHT activity near the > > > > > > prostate? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Dr. says Flax oil like Soy is not any good for men. I don't remember all that was said about it but it had to do with Estradiol levels. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Mike Lawson <mlawson66@...> > Subject: Re: DHT Question > > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 10:04 PM > Hi Xian, > > You are most welcome. > > No worries. There is a lot of information to keep track > of. > The cool thing is that you are taking an active part in > your treatment program. > > Hemp and rice protein are good stuff. I've actually > started > eating some fish and fowl again because my total > cholesterol > is down to 112 and I can't get it back into range just > slugging > down Flax oil... > > I don't know all of the pharmaconetics, but things > started > getting better when I mostly ditched soy. If you ever do > develop non-estradiol related prostate problems, equol > is a less invasive option than some of the pharmacological > options. It does target the prostate. Much better than > getting > gynecomastia from some of the meds out there. > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > The interesting bit is that intestinal > bacteria converts > > > > > daidzein and genestain to equol, which > acts as a very > > > > > potent DHT blockade. > > > > > > > > > > Here's a copy of a post I made a > while back. > > > > > > > > > > I've found 3 distinct issues with > soy: > > > > > > > > > > 1) Goitrogenic - binds with iodine in > stable compounds > > > > > > > > > > 2) Contains phytates - these reduce > absorption of dietary minerals > > > > > > > > > > 3) Estrogenic - Considered to be an > endocrine disruptor. > > > > > > > > > > Our earlier discussion was about point > one. I believe it has > > > > > been covered. Fermentation > significantly reduces the > > > > > goitrogenic properties. > > > > > > > > > > The phytate issue is important as well. > Here are some data on > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.veghealthguide.com/soy-tofu.html > > > > > Cooking does reduce phytate contents; > however, soy seems > > > > > highly resistant to these cooking > techniques. Fermentation to > > > > > produce products like tempeh and miso > does reduce phytate > > > > > contents significantly. Tofu and bean > curd remain high in > > > > > phytate, as do TVP (textured vegetable > protein) products. > > > > > > > > > > It looks like miso and tempeh are the > safest ones with regards > > > > > to phytates. > > > > > > > > > > On the third issue, the real concern > isn't the phytoestrogens > > > > > daidzein and genestain. Rather, it is > equol, a novel antiandrogen. > > > > > It is produced by the action of our > intestinal bacteria on the > > > > > phytoestrogens. > > > > > > > > > > This is not good for infants because it > blocks the effects of DHT, > > > > > which is very important for prepubertal > sexual development in > > > > > both genders. Great for guys with > prostate cancer though! > > > > > > > > > > Here's the link on that. > > > > > > http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=15627582 > > > > > > > > > > So, in adults, moderate use of soy > products containing > > phytoestrogens > > > > > is OK. I'd have to dig a little > further to find out if any > > cooking or > > > > > other processing removes the > phytoestrogens, but they are good for > > > > > managing your lipid profile. > > > > > > > > > > Good health! > > > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > Phil, I recall that you had > warned about soy consumption > > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > lowering T production due to > its message to the pituitary. > > > > > > > Though it > > > > > > > might lower E2, it also lower > T. Studies I've read > > > > > > > also indicate soy > > > > > > > lowers DHT, but is that > specific to DHT activity near the > > > > > > > prostate? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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