Re: What’s a good source to buy Human Growth Hormone on the Internet?

[Guest guest]

I would be very skeptical about getting hormones from any place other than a

pharmacy. A lot of kids that abuse steroids in sports find their outlets on the

internet where they get products from Mexico and China. These drugs are usually

made under unsanitary conditions that we would generally abhor. They will mix

powdered testosterone in cooking oil before injecting it in their body.

From: wmmarbury <wmmarbury@...>

Subject: What’s a good source to buy Human Growth Hormone on

the Internet?

Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:39 AM

I saw a website posted by a contributor a few months ago that sold HGH

injections for about $100 – as I recall there were about four

applicators for that price. Does anyone know what that website is? The

home page had a black background.

Also: Can HGH be taken other than by injection? Does anyone have

experience in this area? I saw a site on the Internet that sells sprays

for about $60; however, my endocrinologist said that the only way he

knows about receiving exogenous HGH is through subcutaneous injections.

[Guest guest]

I've been working with a national foundation that promotes steroid abuse

awarement. I've been invited to appear in one of their videos.

 

I know what the illegals do.

 

If you're content with injesting foreign pharmaceuticals as opposed to American

products because of some FDA/Pharmaceutical conspiracy then you may continue to

do so.

 

I will have no part of it.

>I would be very skeptical about getting hormones from any place other

>than a pharmacy. A lot of kids that abuse steroids in sports find their

>outlets on the internet where they get products from Mexico and China.

>These drugs are usually made under unsanitary conditions that we would

>generally abhor. They will mix powdered testosterone in cooking oil

>before injecting it in their body.

I disagree that the quality of internationally purchased drugs are

somehow of lower quality than their US retailed distribution. Many

drugs are made at FDA certified facilities located internationally and

sold under different distribution channels at different price points. I

used to purchase medications from a pharmacy in Thailand and it was

excellent quality. I purchased from there and several other sources for

the past 8 years sometimes a dozen times in a year without a single

problem. Customs opened only one package ever and resealed it and

shipped it onwards without a noticeable effect on deliver time. India's

drug manufacturing facilities are excellent.

At this point, I have no reason to question even drugs made in Chinese

factories knowing that the majority of supplements used worldwide are of

Chinese manufacture. While on a cruse that included stops in Mexico, I

walked into a local pharmacy and purchased medications without out

problems. The place was full of non-Mexicans making similar purchases.

The last scandels involving medications that I've seen reported in the

news were all within the USA. They involve fraud, product substitution,

and other nasties like watering down chemotherapy drugs. The FDA has

been looking for any reason to stop the flow of imported medications and

has yet to find a credible problem, even one they could lie about.

Not only do I not have any problems with internationally purchased

medications, but health care internationally is often far better than

your local US hospital also at a fraction of the cost.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the information. I am sure their quality control is not as good as

the USA. My problem along with a lot of other people right now is the

availability of HCG. I called a couple of pharmacies yesterday and they said

their systems wouldn't even let them order because the backorder time is so

long--6-12 months. I would love to use US medications but what choice do I have

if they can't keep up with demand? It does scare me a little getting some from

China or India.

Re: What’s a good source to buy Human Growth Hormone

on the Internet?

Now to that point I just made, I agree that certainly there is fraud from

time to time in the US pharmaceutical industry but if caught it comes at an

extremely high price especially if someone is injured. Their is

accountability/liability in the US pharmaceutical industry to the consumer

and if they wish to stay in business and not get sued into bankruptcy they

need to comply with federal regulations. Now what do you do if a

Chinese/Indian pharmaceutical company injures you? Good luck trying to get

the same from them, I'm sure they would just change the name on the door and

go back to business as usual.

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Osborne <ozzmed@...> wrote:

> Here are some facts! I would be very apprehensive injecting anything into

> my body that came from China or India.

>

> China:

>

>  The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has alerted the media to the

> preliminary findings of its inspection of the Chinese facility that supplied

> the active pharmaceutical ingredient (API) for Baxter's heparin - now

> recalled from the market after a safety scare.

>

>

http://www.in-pharmatechnologist.com/news/ng.asp?n=83683-baxter-fda-heparin-chin\

a

>

> A Chinese factory that supplies much of the active ingredient for Baxter's

> Heparin, which has been linked to hundreds of adverse reactions and four

> deaths in the US, isn't certified by China's drug regulators to make

> pharmaceutical products, The New York

Times<http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/us/16baxter.html?hp= & adxnnl=1 & adxnnlx=12\

03169236-+Kpn8TI99KEp4G92pAOnvg>reports. As a result, China's drug agency never

inspected the plant run by

> Changzhou SPL. Earlier this week, the FDA acknowledged it never inspected

> the plant either.

> http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/chinese-heparin-plant-was-never-licensed/

>

> BEIJING — A huge state-owned Chinese pharmaceutical company that exports to

> dozens of countries, including the United States, is at the center of a

> nationwide drug scandal after nearly 200 Chinese

cancer<http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/cancer/overview.html?inli\

ne=nyt-classifier>patients were paralyzed or otherwise harmed last summer by

contaminated

> leukemia drugs.

> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/world/asia/31pharma.html?ref=world

>

> India:

>

> The US government has filed suit in the District Court of land against

> India's largest drug manufacturer, Ranbaxy Laboratories, and its US-based

> consultant Parexel Consulting, alleging that the two systematically hid and

> falsified data related to an investigation of what the government has deemed

> " substandard " drugs sold in the US. The investigation stems from a 2006 FDA

> probe, which held that Ranbaxy had failed to maintain adequate quality

> control systems and records in its Paonta Sahib plant in the Indian state of

> Himachal Pradesh.

> http://www.pharmamanufacturing.com/industrynews/2008/144.html

>

>

>

>

>

>

> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Steve <dudescholar4@...> wrote:

>

>> Let me rephrase.  There is no significant differences in quality and

>> safety between US distributed medications and International distributed

>> medications.  While you have asserted otherwise, that assertion was

>> without substantial evidence of any kind.  There is evidence that the

>> much much much higher cost of US distributed medications results in a

>> greater level of fraud due to much greater profitability that can

>> directly result from committing fraud.

>>

>> As to abuse issues, this is an issue that ultimately resolves around who

>> owns your body, you or some government agency or other group.  I choose

>> self ownership and refuse to submit peaceably to others use of force to

>> get me to do what they want.  If some choose to take steroids, or any

>> other drug for that matter, that is a personal choice that only they can

>>  make and should make regardless of the " abuse " framing scare tactics.

>>  While abuse may or may not be occuring, as long as it is consenting

>> adults that are makeing personal decision, good for them.  If the only

>> thing your a doing is promoting your brand of what is abuse, that works

>> for me too.  Everyone gets to do the PR spin.  As to taking steroids,

>> it's not a decision that is yours or mine to make for them.  We most

>> likely won't even agree on what is safe and what isn't safe given that

>> you are willing to assert facts regarding internationally distributed

>> medications that are unsubstantiated.

>>

>> What is illegal and what isn't is merely a matter of who is asserting

>> power over what you can do with your own property, yourself and your

>> resources.  It is illegal for a " slave " to make a run for freedom and

>> while one may be happy to appear in organizations that want to decrease

>> the ability of the " slave " to make his escape, or live his own life, I'm

>> find no moral or ethical reason to find such organizations anything

>> other than oppressive modern slave masters.

>>

>> Again, the safety of internationally distributed medications is merely

>> an assertion, not a fact of any kind.  I'm confident in using

>> medications regardless of local or international distribution and I'm

>> even HAPPIER with the financial savings I've made by my choice.  The

>> family costs for medications when we were without insurance was well

>> over $1200/month if purchased in the USA and about $400 a month

>> including shipping when sourced internationally.  A savings of over

>> $10,000 a year without any reduction in quality was a very rational

>> decision.  For some people on fixed incomes, the choice is even starker,

>> they can either get their medications internationally at greatly

>> discounted pricing or do without.  Safety is not an issue at all.

>>

>> The fact that you choose to overpay for medications is irrational but

>> your choice to make nevertheless.  Full personal responsibility is

>> inextricable tied to full freedom, both of which are sorely lacking in

>> in the USA.

>>

>> For this group, sometimes HCG is unavailable from any source except

>> international ones so your personal choice would be to go without.

>> That's not mine.  As to HGH, if this was a prescription I needed or

>> desired, I would go with Chinese made since it is by far the cheapest

>> for this very very expensive drug saving hundreds of dollars a month.

>> Your resources may be unlimited allowing you to overpay and under

>> receive your medications needs and wants but even most millionaires

>> don't toss their money away.

>>

>> Steve - The Libertarian.

>>

>> Norsworthy wrote:

>> > I've been working with a national foundation that promotes steroid abuse

>> awarement. I've been invited to appear in one of their videos.

>> >

>> > I know what the illegals do.

>> >

>> > If you're content with injesting foreign pharmaceuticals as opposed to

>> American products because of some FDA/Pharmaceutical conspiracy then you may

>> continue to do so.

>> >

>> > I will have no part of it.

>> >

>> >

>> >> I would be very skeptical about getting hormones from any place other

>> >  >than a pharmacy. A lot of kids that abuse steroids in sports find

>> their

>> >  >outlets on the internet where they get products from Mexico and China.

>> >  >These drugs are usually made under unsanitary conditions that we would

>> >  >generally abhor. They will mix powdered testosterone in cooking oil

>> >  >before injecting it in their body.

>> >

>> > I disagree that the quality of internationally purchased drugs are

>> > somehow of lower quality than their US retailed distribution.  Many

>> > drugs are made at FDA certified facilities located internationally and

>> > sold under different distribution channels at different price points.  I

>> > used to purchase medications from a pharmacy in Thailand and it was

>> > excellent quality.  I purchased from there and several other sources for

>> > the past 8 years sometimes a dozen times in a year without a single

>> > problem.  Customs opened only one package ever and resealed it and

>> > shipped it onwards without a noticeable effect on deliver time.  India's

>> > drug manufacturing facilities are excellent.

>> >

>> > At this point, I have no reason to question even drugs made in Chinese

>> > factories knowing that the majority of supplements used worldwide are of

>> > Chinese manufacture. While on a cruse that included stops in Mexico, I

>> > walked into a local pharmacy and purchased medications without out

>> > problems.  The place was full of non-Mexicans making similar purchases.

>> >

>> > The last scandels involving medications that I've seen reported in the

>> > news were all within the USA.  They involve fraud, product substitution,

>> > and other nasties like watering down chemotherapy drugs.  The FDA has

>> > been looking for any reason to stop the flow of imported medications and

>> > has yet to find a credible problem, even one they could lie about.

>> >

>> > Not only do I not have any problems with internationally purchased

>> > medications, but health care internationally is often far better than

>> > your local US hospital also at a fraction of the cost.

>> >

>>

>> --

>>

>> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>>

>> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

>> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

>>

>> " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

>> to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------------

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Thanks . My Dr. told me yesterday he had no problem writing a

prescription for HCG but didn't think I could get it so he didn't write it. I

actually go back tomorrow to his office for some more testing. I will ask him to

go ahead and write the prescription and put my diagnosis on it.

Re: What's a good source to buy Human Growth

>> Hormone on the Internet?

>>

>> Now to that point I just made, I agree that certainly there is fraud from

>> time to time in the US pharmaceutical industry but if caught it comes at

>> an

>> extremely high price especially if someone is injured. Their is

>> accountability/liability in the US pharmaceutical industry to the consumer

>> and if they wish to stay in business and not get sued into bankruptcy they

>> need to comply with federal regulations. Now what do you do if a

>> Chinese/Indian pharmaceutical company injures you? Good luck trying to get

>> the same from them, I'm sure they would just change the name on the door

>> and

>> go back to business as usual.

>>

>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Osborne

<ozzmed@...<ozzmed%40gmail.com>>

>> wrote:

>>

>> > Here are some facts! I would be very apprehensive injecting anything

>> into

>> > my body that came from China or India.

>> >

>> > China:

>> >

>> >  The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has alerted the media to the

>> > preliminary findings of its inspection of the Chinese facility that

>> supplied

>> > the active pharmaceutical ingredient (API) for Baxter's heparin - now

>> > recalled from the market after a safety scare.

>> >

>> >

>>

http://www.in-pharmatechnologist.com/news/ng.asp?n=83683-baxter-fda-heparin-chin\

a

>> >

>> > A Chinese factory that supplies much of the active ingredient for

>> Baxter's

>> > Heparin, which has been linked to hundreds of adverse reactions and four

>> > deaths in the US, isn't certified by China's drug regulators to make

>> > pharmaceutical products, The New York Times<

>>

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/us/16baxter.html?hp= & adxnnl=1 & adxnnlx=12031692\

36-+Kpn8TI99KEp4G92pAOnvg>reports.

>> As a result, China's drug agency never inspected the plant run by

>> > Changzhou SPL. Earlier this week, the FDA acknowledged it never

>> inspected

>> > the plant either.

>> >

>> http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/chinese-heparin-plant-was-never-licensed/

>> >

>> > BEIJING — A huge state-owned Chinese pharmaceutical company that exports

>> to

>> > dozens of countries, including the United States, is at the center of a

>> > nationwide drug scandal after nearly 200 Chinese cancer<

>>

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/cancer/overview.html?inline=nyt-\

classifier>patients

>> were paralyzed or otherwise harmed last summer by contaminated

>>

>> > leukemia drugs.

>> > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/world/asia/31pharma.html?ref=world

>> >

>> > India:

>> >

>> > The US government has filed suit in the District Court of land

>> against

>> > India's largest drug manufacturer, Ranbaxy Laboratories, and its

>> US-based

>> > consultant Parexel Consulting, alleging that the two systematically hid

>> and

>> > falsified data related to an investigation of what the government has

>> deemed

>> > " substandard " drugs sold in the US. The investigation stems from a 2006

>> FDA

>> > probe, which held that Ranbaxy had failed to maintain adequate quality

>> > control systems and records in its Paonta Sahib plant in the Indian

>> state of

>> > Himachal Pradesh.

>> > http://www.pharmamanufacturing.com/industrynews/2008/144.html

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Steve

<dudescholar4@...<dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>>

>> wrote:

>> >

>> >> Let me rephrase.  There is no significant differences in quality and

>> >> safety between US distributed medications and International distributed

>> >> medications.  While you have asserted otherwise, that assertion was

>> >> without substantial evidence of any kind.  There is evidence that the

>> >> much much much higher cost of US distributed medications results in a

>> >> greater level of fraud due to much greater profitability that can

>> >> directly result from committing fraud.

>> >>

>> >> As to abuse issues, this is an issue that ultimately resolves around

>> who

>> >> owns your body, you or some government agency or other group.  I choose

>> >> self ownership and refuse to submit peaceably to others use of force to

>> >> get me to do what they want.  If some choose to take steroids, or any

>> >> other drug for that matter, that is a personal choice that only they

>> can

>> >>  make and should make regardless of the " abuse " framing scare tactics.

>> >>  While abuse may or may not be occuring, as long as it is consenting

>> >> adults that are makeing personal decision, good for them.  If the only

>> >> thing your a doing is promoting your brand of what is abuse, that works

>> >> for me too.  Everyone gets to do the PR spin.  As to taking steroids,

>> >> it's not a decision that is yours or mine to make for them.  We most

>> >> likely won't even agree on what is safe and what isn't safe given that

>> >> you are willing to assert facts regarding internationally distributed

>> >> medications that are unsubstantiated.

>> >>

>> >> What is illegal and what isn't is merely a matter of who is asserting

>> >> power over what you can do with your own property, yourself and your

>> >> resources.  It is illegal for a " slave " to make a run for freedom and

>> >> while one may be happy to appear in organizations that want to decrease

>> >> the ability of the " slave " to make his escape, or live his own life,

>> I'm

>> >> find no moral or ethical reason to find such organizations anything

>> >> other than oppressive modern slave masters.

>> >>

>> >> Again, the safety of internationally distributed medications is merely

>> >> an assertion, not a fact of any kind.  I'm confident in using

>> >> medications regardless of local or international distribution and I'm

>> >> even HAPPIER with the financial savings I've made by my choice.  The

>> >> family costs for medications when we were without insurance was well

>> >> over $1200/month if purchased in the USA and about $400 a month

>> >> including shipping when sourced internationally.  A savings of over

>> >> $10,000 a year without any reduction in quality was a very rational

>> >> decision.  For some people on fixed incomes, the choice is even

>> starker,

>> >> they can either get their medications internationally at greatly

>> >> discounted pricing or do without.  Safety is not an issue at all.

>> >>

>> >> The fact that you choose to overpay for medications is irrational but

>> >> your choice to make nevertheless.  Full personal responsibility is

>> >> inextricable tied to full freedom, both of which are sorely lacking in

>> >> in the USA.

>> >>

>> >> For this group, sometimes HCG is unavailable from any source except

>> >> international ones so your personal choice would be to go without.

>> >> That's not mine.  As to HGH, if this was a prescription I needed or

>> >> desired, I would go with Chinese made since it is by far the cheapest

>> >> for this very very expensive drug saving hundreds of dollars a month.

>> >> Your resources may be unlimited allowing you to overpay and under

>> >> receive your medications needs and wants but even most millionaires

>> >> don't toss their money away.

>> >>

>> >> Steve - The Libertarian.

>> >>

>> >> Norsworthy wrote:

>> >> > I've been working with a national foundation that promotes steroid

>> abuse

>> >> awarement. I've been invited to appear in one of their videos.

>> >> >

>> >> > I know what the illegals do.

>> >> >

>> >> > If you're content with injesting foreign pharmaceuticals as opposed

>> to

>> >> American products because of some FDA/Pharmaceutical conspiracy then

>> you may

>> >> continue to do so.

>> >> >

>> >> > I will have no part of it.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >> I would be very skeptical about getting hormones from any place

>> other

>> >> >  >than a pharmacy. A lot of kids that abuse steroids in sports find

>> >> their

>> >> >  >outlets on the internet where they get products from Mexico and

>> China.

>> >> >  >These drugs are usually made under unsanitary conditions that we

>> would

>> >> >  >generally abhor. They will mix powdered testosterone in cooking oil

>> >> >  >before injecting it in their body.

>> >> >

>> >> > I disagree that the quality of internationally purchased drugs are

>> >> > somehow of lower quality than their US retailed distribution.  Many

>> >> > drugs are made at FDA certified facilities located internationally

>> and

>> >> > sold under different distribution channels at different price

>> points.  I

>> >> > used to purchase medications from a pharmacy in Thailand and it was

>> >> > excellent quality.  I purchased from there and several other sources

>> for

>> >> > the past 8 years sometimes a dozen times in a year without a single

>> >> > problem.  Customs opened only one package ever and resealed it and

>> >> > shipped it onwards without a noticeable effect on deliver time.

>> India's

>> >> > drug manufacturing facilities are excellent.

>> >> >

>> >> > At this point, I have no reason to question even drugs made in

>> Chinese

>> >> > factories knowing that the majority of supplements used worldwide are

>> of

>> >> > Chinese manufacture. While on a cruse that included stops in Mexico,

>> I

>> >> > walked into a local pharmacy and purchased medications without out

>> >> > problems.  The place was full of non-Mexicans making similar

>> purchases.

>> >> >

>> >> > The last scandels involving medications that I've seen reported in

>> the

>> >> > news were all within the USA.  They involve fraud, product

>> substitution,

>> >> > and other nasties like watering down chemotherapy drugs.  The FDA has

>> >> > been looking for any reason to stop the flow of imported medications

>> and

>> >> > has yet to find a credible problem, even one they could lie about.

>> >> >

>> >> > Not only do I not have any problems with internationally purchased

>> >> > medications, but health care internationally is often far better than

>> >> > your local US hospital also at a fraction of the cost.

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >>

>> >> Steve - dudescholar4@... <dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>

>> >>

>> >> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

>> >> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

>> >>

>> >> " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

>> >> to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------------

>> >>

>> >>

[Guest guest]

How are these pharmacies when it comes to insurance?

Re: What's a good source to buy Human Growth

>> Hormone on the Internet?

>>

>> Now to that point I just made, I agree that certainly there is fraud from

>> time to time in the US pharmaceutical industry but if caught it comes at

>> an

>> extremely high price especially if someone is injured. Their is

>> accountability/liability in the US pharmaceutical industry to the consumer

>> and if they wish to stay in business and not get sued into bankruptcy they

>> need to comply with federal regulations. Now what do you do if a

>> Chinese/Indian pharmaceutical company injures you? Good luck trying to get

>> the same from them, I'm sure they would just change the name on the door

>> and

>> go back to business as usual.

>>

>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Osborne

<ozzmed@...<ozzmed%40gmail.com>>

>> wrote:

>>

>> > Here are some facts! I would be very apprehensive injecting anything

>> into

>> > my body that came from China or India.

>> >

>> > China:

>> >

>> >  The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has alerted the media to the

>> > preliminary findings of its inspection of the Chinese facility that

>> supplied

>> > the active pharmaceutical ingredient (API) for Baxter's heparin - now

>> > recalled from the market after a safety scare.

>> >

>> >

>>

http://www.in-pharmatechnologist.com/news/ng.asp?n=83683-baxter-fda-heparin-chin\

a

>> >

>> > A Chinese factory that supplies much of the active ingredient for

>> Baxter's

>> > Heparin, which has been linked to hundreds of adverse reactions and four

>> > deaths in the US, isn't certified by China's drug regulators to make

>> > pharmaceutical products, The New York Times<

>>

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/us/16baxter.html?hp= & adxnnl=1 & adxnnlx=12031692\

36-+Kpn8TI99KEp4G92pAOnvg>reports.

>> As a result, China's drug agency never inspected the plant run by

>> > Changzhou SPL. Earlier this week, the FDA acknowledged it never

>> inspected

>> > the plant either.

>> >

>> http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/chinese-heparin-plant-was-never-licensed/

>> >

>> > BEIJING — A huge state-owned Chinese pharmaceutical company that exports

>> to

>> > dozens of countries, including the United States, is at the center of a

>> > nationwide drug scandal after nearly 200 Chinese cancer<

>>

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/cancer/overview.html?inline=nyt-\

classifier>patients

>> were paralyzed or otherwise harmed last summer by contaminated

>>

>> > leukemia drugs.

>> > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/world/asia/31pharma.html?ref=world

>> >

>> > India:

>> >

>> > The US government has filed suit in the District Court of land

>> against

>> > India's largest drug manufacturer, Ranbaxy Laboratories, and its

>> US-based

>> > consultant Parexel Consulting, alleging that the two systematically hid

>> and

>> > falsified data related to an investigation of what the government has

>> deemed

>> > " substandard " drugs sold in the US. The investigation stems from a 2006

>> FDA

>> > probe, which held that Ranbaxy had failed to maintain adequate quality

>> > control systems and records in its Paonta Sahib plant in the Indian

>> state of

>> > Himachal Pradesh.

>> > http://www.pharmamanufacturing.com/industrynews/2008/144.html

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Steve

<dudescholar4@...<dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>>

>> wrote:

>> >

>> >> Let me rephrase.  There is no significant differences in quality and

>> >> safety between US distributed medications and International distributed

>> >> medications.  While you have asserted otherwise, that assertion was

>> >> without substantial evidence of any kind.  There is evidence that the

>> >> much much much higher cost of US distributed medications results in a

>> >> greater level of fraud due to much greater profitability that can

>> >> directly result from committing fraud.

>> >>

>> >> As to abuse issues, this is an issue that ultimately resolves around

>> who

>> >> owns your body, you or some government agency or other group.  I choose

>> >> self ownership and refuse to submit peaceably to others use of force to

>> >> get me to do what they want.  If some choose to take steroids, or any

>> >> other drug for that matter, that is a personal choice that only they

>> can

>> >>  make and should make regardless of the " abuse " framing scare tactics.

>> >>  While abuse may or may not be occuring, as long as it is consenting

>> >> adults that are makeing personal decision, good for them.  If the only

>> >> thing your a doing is promoting your brand of what is abuse, that works

>> >> for me too.  Everyone gets to do the PR spin.  As to taking steroids,

>> >> it's not a decision that is yours or mine to make for them.  We most

>> >> likely won't even agree on what is safe and what isn't safe given that

>> >> you are willing to assert facts regarding internationally distributed

>> >> medications that are unsubstantiated.

>> >>

>> >> What is illegal and what isn't is merely a matter of who is asserting

>> >> power over what you can do with your own property, yourself and your

>> >> resources.  It is illegal for a " slave " to make a run for freedom and

>> >> while one may be happy to appear in organizations that want to decrease

>> >> the ability of the " slave " to make his escape, or live his own life,

>> I'm

>> >> find no moral or ethical reason to find such organizations anything

>> >> other than oppressive modern slave masters.

>> >>

>> >> Again, the safety of internationally distributed medications is merely

>> >> an assertion, not a fact of any kind.  I'm confident in using

>> >> medications regardless of local or international distribution and I'm

>> >> even HAPPIER with the financial savings I've made by my choice.  The

>> >> family costs for medications when we were without insurance was well

>> >> over $1200/month if purchased in the USA and about $400 a month

>> >> including shipping when sourced internationally.  A savings of over

>> >> $10,000 a year without any reduction in quality was a very rational

>> >> decision.  For some people on fixed incomes, the choice is even

>> starker,

>> >> they can either get their medications internationally at greatly

>> >> discounted pricing or do without.  Safety is not an issue at all.

>> >>

>> >> The fact that you choose to overpay for medications is irrational but

>> >> your choice to make nevertheless.  Full personal responsibility is

>> >> inextricable tied to full freedom, both of which are sorely lacking in

>> >> in the USA.

>> >>

>> >> For this group, sometimes HCG is unavailable from any source except

>> >> international ones so your personal choice would be to go without.

>> >> That's not mine.  As to HGH, if this was a prescription I needed or

>> >> desired, I would go with Chinese made since it is by far the cheapest

>> >> for this very very expensive drug saving hundreds of dollars a month.

>> >> Your resources may be unlimited allowing you to overpay and under

>> >> receive your medications needs and wants but even most millionaires

>> >> don't toss their money away.

>> >>

>> >> Steve - The Libertarian.

>> >>

>> >> Norsworthy wrote:

>> >> > I've been working with a national foundation that promotes steroid

>> abuse

>> >> awarement. I've been invited to appear in one of their videos.

>> >> >

>> >> > I know what the illegals do.

>> >> >

>> >> > If you're content with injesting foreign pharmaceuticals as opposed

>> to

>> >> American products because of some FDA/Pharmaceutical conspiracy then

>> you may

>> >> continue to do so.

>> >> >

>> >> > I will have no part of it.

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >> I would be very skeptical about getting hormones from any place

>> other

>> >> >  >than a pharmacy. A lot of kids that abuse steroids in sports find

>> >> their

>> >> >  >outlets on the internet where they get products from Mexico and

>> China.

>> >> >  >These drugs are usually made under unsanitary conditions that we

>> would

>> >> >  >generally abhor. They will mix powdered testosterone in cooking oil

>> >> >  >before injecting it in their body.

>> >> >

>> >> > I disagree that the quality of internationally purchased drugs are

>> >> > somehow of lower quality than their US retailed distribution.  Many

>> >> > drugs are made at FDA certified facilities located internationally

>> and

>> >> > sold under different distribution channels at different price

>> points.  I

>> >> > used to purchase medications from a pharmacy in Thailand and it was

>> >> > excellent quality.  I purchased from there and several other sources

>> for

>> >> > the past 8 years sometimes a dozen times in a year without a single

>> >> > problem.  Customs opened only one package ever and resealed it and

>> >> > shipped it onwards without a noticeable effect on deliver time.

>> India's

>> >> > drug manufacturing facilities are excellent.

>> >> >

>> >> > At this point, I have no reason to question even drugs made in

>> Chinese

>> >> > factories knowing that the majority of supplements used worldwide are

>> of

>> >> > Chinese manufacture. While on a cruse that included stops in Mexico,

>> I

>> >> > walked into a local pharmacy and purchased medications without out

>> >> > problems.  The place was full of non-Mexicans making similar

>> purchases.

>> >> >

>> >> > The last scandels involving medications that I've seen reported in

>> the

>> >> > news were all within the USA.  They involve fraud, product

>> substitution,

>> >> > and other nasties like watering down chemotherapy drugs.  The FDA has

>> >> > been looking for any reason to stop the flow of imported medications

>> and

>> >> > has yet to find a credible problem, even one they could lie about.

>> >> >

>> >> > Not only do I not have any problems with internationally purchased

>> >> > medications, but health care internationally is often far better than

>> >> > your local US hospital also at a fraction of the cost.

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >>

>> >> Steve - dudescholar4@... <dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>

>> >>

>> >> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

>> >> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

>> >>

>> >> " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

>> >> to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------------

>> >>

>> >>

[Guest guest]

I found a few vials at a big US compounding pharmacy. I have to get my Dr. to

call in a prescription to them and he is off on Fridays. He has Saturday hours

and I will be seeing him tomorrow. I will have to have him call it in on Monday.

Re: What's a good source to buy Human Growth

> >> Hormone on the Internet?

> >>

> >> Now to that point I just made, I agree that certainly there is fraud

> from

> >> time to time in the US pharmaceutical industry but if caught it comes at

> >> an

> >> extremely high price especially if someone is injured. Their is

> >> accountability/liability in the US pharmaceutical industry to the

> consumer

> >> and if they wish to stay in business and not get sued into bankruptcy

> they

> >> need to comply with federal regulations. Now what do you do if a

> >> Chinese/Indian pharmaceutical company injures you? Good luck trying to

> get

> >> the same from them, I'm sure they would just change the name on the door

> >> and

> >> go back to business as usual.

> >>

> >> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Osborne

<ozzmed@...<ozzmed%40gmail.com>

> <ozzmed%40gmail.com>>

> >> wrote:

> >>

> >> > Here are some facts! I would be very apprehensive injecting anything

> >> into

> >> > my body that came from China or India.

> >> >

> >> > China:

> >> >

> >> >  The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has alerted the media to

> the

> >> > preliminary findings of its inspection of the Chinese facility that

> >> supplied

> >> > the active pharmaceutical ingredient (API) for Baxter's heparin - now

> >> > recalled from the market after a safety scare.

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

>

http://www.in-pharmatechnologist.com/news/ng.asp?n=83683-baxter-fda-heparin-chin\

a

> >> >

> >> > A Chinese factory that supplies much of the active ingredient for

> >> Baxter's

> >> > Heparin, which has been linked to hundreds of adverse reactions and

> four

> >> > deaths in the US, isn't certified by China's drug regulators to make

> >> > pharmaceutical products, The New York Times<

> >>

>

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/us/16baxter.html?hp= & adxnnl=1 & adxnnlx=12031692\

36-+Kpn8TI99KEp4G92pAOnvg

> >reports.

> >> As a result, China's drug agency never inspected the plant run by

> >> > Changzhou SPL. Earlier this week, the FDA acknowledged it never

> >> inspected

> >> > the plant either.

> >> >

> >>

> http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/chinese-heparin-plant-was-never-licensed/

> >> >

> >> > BEIJING — A huge state-owned Chinese pharmaceutical company that

> exports

> >> to

> >> > dozens of countries, including the United States, is at the center of

> a

> >> > nationwide drug scandal after nearly 200 Chinese cancer<

> >>

>

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/cancer/overview.html?inline=nyt-\

classifier

> >patients

> >> were paralyzed or otherwise harmed last summer by contaminated

> >>

> >> > leukemia drugs.

> >> > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/world/asia/31pharma.html?ref=world

> >> >

> >> > India:

> >> >

> >> > The US government has filed suit in the District Court of land

> >> against

> >> > India's largest drug manufacturer, Ranbaxy Laboratories, and its

> >> US-based

> >> > consultant Parexel Consulting, alleging that the two systematically

> hid

> >> and

> >> > falsified data related to an investigation of what the government has

> >> deemed

> >> > " substandard " drugs sold in the US. The investigation stems from a

> 2006

> >> FDA

> >> > probe, which held that Ranbaxy had failed to maintain adequate quality

> >> > control systems and records in its Paonta Sahib plant in the Indian

> >> state of

> >> > Himachal Pradesh.

> >> > http://www.pharmamanufacturing.com/industrynews/2008/144.html

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Steve

<dudescholar4@...<dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>

> <dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>>

> >> wrote:

> >> >

> >> >> Let me rephrase.  There is no significant differences in quality and

> >> >> safety between US distributed medications and International

> distributed

> >> >> medications.  While you have asserted otherwise, that assertion was

> >> >> without substantial evidence of any kind.  There is evidence that the

> >> >> much much much higher cost of US distributed medications results in a

> >> >> greater level of fraud due to much greater profitability that can

> >> >> directly result from committing fraud.

> >> >>

> >> >> As to abuse issues, this is an issue that ultimately resolves around

> >> who

> >> >> owns your body, you or some government agency or other group.  I

> choose

> >> >> self ownership and refuse to submit peaceably to others use of force

> to

> >> >> get me to do what they want.  If some choose to take steroids, or any

> >> >> other drug for that matter, that is a personal choice that only they

> >> can

> >> >>  make and should make regardless of the " abuse " framing scare

> tactics.

> >> >>  While abuse may or may not be occuring, as long as it is consenting

> >> >> adults that are makeing personal decision, good for them.  If the

> only

> >> >> thing your a doing is promoting your brand of what is abuse, that

> works

> >> >> for me too.  Everyone gets to do the PR spin.  As to taking steroids,

> >> >> it's not a decision that is yours or mine to make for them.  We most

> >> >> likely won't even agree on what is safe and what isn't safe given

> that

> >> >> you are willing to assert facts regarding internationally distributed

> >> >> medications that are unsubstantiated.

> >> >>

> >> >> What is illegal and what isn't is merely a matter of who is asserting

> >> >> power over what you can do with your own property, yourself and your

> >> >> resources.  It is illegal for a " slave " to make a run for freedom and

> >> >> while one may be happy to appear in organizations that want to

> decrease

> >> >> the ability of the " slave " to make his escape, or live his own life,

> >> I'm

> >> >> find no moral or ethical reason to find such organizations anything

> >> >> other than oppressive modern slave masters.

> >> >>

> >> >> Again, the safety of internationally distributed medications is

> merely

> >> >> an assertion, not a fact of any kind.  I'm confident in using

> >> >> medications regardless of local or international distribution and I'm

> >> >> even HAPPIER with the financial savings I've made by my choice.  The

> >> >> family costs for medications when we were without insurance was well

> >> >> over $1200/month if purchased in the USA and about $400 a month

> >> >> including shipping when sourced internationally.  A savings of over

> >> >> $10,000 a year without any reduction in quality was a very rational

> >> >> decision.  For some people on fixed incomes, the choice is even

> >> starker,

> >> >> they can either get their medications internationally at greatly

> >> >> discounted pricing or do without.  Safety is not an issue at all.

> >> >>

> >> >> The fact that you choose to overpay for medications is irrational but

> >> >> your choice to make nevertheless.  Full personal responsibility is

> >> >> inextricable tied to full freedom, both of which are sorely lacking

> in

> >> >> in the USA.

> >> >>

> >> >> For this group, sometimes HCG is unavailable from any source except

> >> >> international ones so your personal choice would be to go without.

> >> >> That's not mine.  As to HGH, if this was a prescription I needed or

> >> >> desired, I would go with Chinese made since it is by far the cheapest

> >> >> for this very very expensive drug saving hundreds of dollars a month.

> >> >> Your resources may be unlimited allowing you to overpay and under

> >> >> receive your medications needs and wants but even most millionaires

> >> >> don't toss their money away.

> >> >>

> >> >> Steve - The Libertarian.

> >> >>

> >> >> Norsworthy wrote:

> >> >> > I've been working with a national foundation that promotes steroid

> >> abuse

> >> >> awarement. I've been invited to appear in one of their videos.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > I know what the illegals do.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > If you're content with injesting foreign pharmaceuticals as opposed

> >> to

> >> >> American products because of some FDA/Pharmaceutical conspiracy then

> >> you may

> >> >> continue to do so.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > I will have no part of it.

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >> >> I would be very skeptical about getting hormones from any place

> >> other

> >> >> >  >than a pharmacy. A lot of kids that abuse steroids in sports find

> >> >> their

> >> >> >  >outlets on the internet where they get products from Mexico and

> >> China.

> >> >> >  >These drugs are usually made under unsanitary conditions that we

> >> would

> >> >> >  >generally abhor. They will mix powdered testosterone in cooking

> oil

> >> >> >  >before injecting it in their body.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > I disagree that the quality of internationally purchased drugs are

> >> >> > somehow of lower quality than their US retailed distribution.  Many

> >> >> > drugs are made at FDA certified facilities located internationally

> >> and

> >> >> > sold under different distribution channels at different price

> >> points.  I

> >> >> > used to purchase medications from a pharmacy in Thailand and it was

> >> >> > excellent quality.  I purchased from there and several other

> sources

> >> for

> >> >> > the past 8 years sometimes a dozen times in a year without a single

> >> >> > problem.  Customs opened only one package ever and resealed it and

> >> >> > shipped it onwards without a noticeable effect on deliver time.

> >> India's

> >> >> > drug manufacturing facilities are excellent.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > At this point, I have no reason to question even drugs made in

> >> Chinese

> >> >> > factories knowing that the majority of supplements used worldwide

> are

> >> of

> >> >> > Chinese manufacture. While on a cruse that included stops in

> Mexico,

> >> I

> >> >> > walked into a local pharmacy and purchased medications without out

> >> >> > problems.  The place was full of non-Mexicans making similar

> >> purchases.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > The last scandels involving medications that I've seen reported in

> >> the

> >> >> > news were all within the USA.  They involve fraud, product

> >> substitution,

> >> >> > and other nasties like watering down chemotherapy drugs.  The FDA

> has

> >> >> > been looking for any reason to stop the flow of imported

> medications

> >> and

> >> >> > has yet to find a credible problem, even one they could lie about.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Not only do I not have any problems with internationally purchased

> >> >> > medications, but health care internationally is often far better

> than

> >> >> > your local US hospital also at a fraction of the cost.

> >> >> >

> >> >>

> >> >> --

> >> >>

> >> >> Steve - dudescholar4@...

<dudescholar4%40basicmail.net><dudescholar4%

> 40basicmail.net>

> >> >>

> >> >> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> >> >> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

> >> >>

> >> >> " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

> >> >> to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> ------------------------------------

> >> >>

> >> >>