Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 It seems as though my body is stuck in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have gained the weight back yet am always hungry. It has to be something my body is not understanding that can be fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Some times this can take a good year to correct it's self. Time is on your side and your young all you can do is take it a day at a time and don't stress over this it makes it worse. Best to see if your adrenals are over worked and your Thyroid treat them and let time heal you. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Matt <mattobrien71@...> > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > It seems as though my body is stuck > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > It has to be something my body is not understanding that > can be fixed. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Rt3/t3 ratio As I shared my person experience and clincal knowledge this would seem the most logical scenerio which could have POTENTALLY caused your issue. > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71@...> > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > It has to be something my body is not understanding that > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 going up to mayo tomorrow, hopefully good luck ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Wed, October 21, 2009 4:25:23 PM Subject: Re: Stuck in starvation. Some times this can take a good year to correct it's self. Time is on your side and your young all you can do is take it a day at a time and don't stress over this it makes it worse. Best to see if your adrenals are over worked and your Thyroid treat them and let time heal you. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > It seems as though my body is stuck > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > It has to be something my body is not understanding that > can be fixed. > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 I pray all goes well for you and they get to the bottom of all this. Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a > year > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I > have > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > It has to be something my body is not understanding > that > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 The endo at mayo said that I could be put on testosterone in a low dose to see if my body would respond. Does this sound possible or no? And for people on testosterone do you feel the difference? strenght gains, libido? what's the major benefeits? ________________________________ From: Matt Obrien <mattobrien71@...> Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 1:32:10 PM Subject: Re: Stuck in starvation. going up to mayo tomorrow, hopefully good luck ____________ _________ _________ __ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18 (DOT) com> Sent: Wed, October 21, 2009 4:25:23 PM Subject: Re: Stuck in starvation. Some times this can take a good year to correct it's self. Time is on your side and your young all you can do is take it a day at a time and don't stress over this it makes it worse. Best to see if your adrenals are over worked and your Thyroid treat them and let time heal you. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > It seems as though my body is stuck > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > It has to be something my body is not understanding that > can be fixed. > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Alright Matt I would personally give it a shot mate, but I have to tell you, in my own humble opinion, T therapy sux. Phil has kindly given me some advice on what I need to do, but I am really down-hearted about the whole thing now and may well jack it completely. As this progressed, I was pretty certain I would be treated for a prolactinoma and fully expected to be prescribed bromocriptine (cabergoline would always have been a bonus). I know a bit about this and understood the the therapy is between five years and life and with cabergoline is generally only two 500 mcg pills per week. I never expected to be treated for low T and at the time I felt happy that it was being addressed. Now, when I first started this I had low libido, up and down mood and most defo up and down dick - by no means perfect or " normal " but I could live with it. Since I started therapy on Testogel (Androgel in the USA) I have no libido whatsoever - to the point where even jacking myself off seems like a real task - and one I have no interest in. My mood is terrible and I feel like I am always having a go at everybody (even though I know it I cannot seem to stop). I LOVE going to the gym, but since starting this treatment I am not even able to stand it for 20 minutes without almost collapsing with exhaustion. You know, in my whole life I can honestly say that while I have certainly had problems with one thing or another, I do not think anybody would ever call me " depressed " but it is for sure that they would now. I am going to jack the T therapy and see what happens. The alternative seems to be taking higher T doses and then more meds to combat the side effects of the high T (which include meds for high estradiol, HCG and a lot of others), when this only started out for me as high prolactin. I think it is more trouble than it is worth, but I am also a big believer in finding this out for yourself, so please go ahead and give it a try - you may feel different about it. Good luck and take care ade > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > It has to be something my body is not understanding that > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thnanks dude, a lot of good information and as we both understand, we are faced with a choice. ________________________________ From: Ade <spadeboy@...> Sent: Tue, October 27, 2009 6:47:31 PM Subject: Re: Stuck in starvation. Alright Matt I would personally give it a shot mate, but I have to tell you, in my own humble opinion, T therapy sux. Phil has kindly given me some advice on what I need to do, but I am really down-hearted about the whole thing now and may well jack it completely. As this progressed, I was pretty certain I would be treated for a prolactinoma and fully expected to be prescribed bromocriptine (cabergoline would always have been a bonus). I know a bit about this and understood the the therapy is between five years and life and with cabergoline is generally only two 500 mcg pills per week. I never expected to be treated for low T and at the time I felt happy that it was being addressed. Now, when I first started this I had low libido, up and down mood and most defo up and down dick - by no means perfect or " normal " but I could live with it. Since I started therapy on Testogel (Androgel in the USA) I have no libido whatsoever - to the point where even jacking myself off seems like a real task - and one I have no interest in. My mood is terrible and I feel like I am always having a go at everybody (even though I know it I cannot seem to stop). I LOVE going to the gym, but since starting this treatment I am not even able to stand it for 20 minutes without almost collapsing with exhaustion. You know, in my whole life I can honestly say that while I have certainly had problems with one thing or another, I do not think anybody would ever call me " depressed " but it is for sure that they would now. I am going to jack the T therapy and see what happens. The alternative seems to be taking higher T doses and then more meds to combat the side effects of the high T (which include meds for high estradiol, HCG and a lot of others), when this only started out for me as high prolactin. I think it is more trouble than it is worth, but I am also a big believer in finding this out for yourself, so please go ahead and give it a try - you may feel different about it. Good luck and take care ade > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > It has to be something my body is not understanding that > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:47:31 -0000, you wrote: >Now, when I first started this I had low libido, up and down mood and most defo up and down dick - by no means perfect or " normal " but I could live with it. Since I started therapy on Testogel (Androgel in the USA) I have no libido whatsoever - to the point where even jacking myself off seems like a real task - and one I have no interest in. My mood is terrible and I feel like I am always having a go at everybody (even though I know it I cannot seem to stop). I LOVE going to the gym, but since starting this treatment I am not even able to stand it for 20 minutes without almost collapsing with exhaustion. You know, in my whole life I can honestly say that while I have certainly had problems with one thing or another, I do not think anybody would ever call me " depressed " but it is for sure that they would now. > >I am going to jack the T therapy and see what happens. The alternative seems to be taking higher T doses and then more meds to combat the side effects of the high T (which include meds for high estradiol, HCG and a lot of others), when this only started out for me as high prolactin. I think it is more trouble than it is worth, but I am also a big believer in finding this out for yourself, so please go ahead and give it a try - you may feel different about it. I'm guessing your E2 is way off. Your libido should be way up - as should morning wood. DOn't give it up until you try it when it's right. Low T leads to osteoporosis (I broke 8 ribs before they figured it out). It leads to lack of ambition, motivation and drive and brings a profound mental fog. Try and get your E2 right. You should feel a profound difference. Have you had an E2 test? Are you doing arimidex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thanks for that mate. I know you are right, but I am really down about this right now. I tried (unofficially) increasing the dose, but I have noticed nothing whatsoever - maybe the only thing is that I always feel very serene and calm, but I have no energy, drive, ambition or get up and go, much less libido, morning or night wood - in fact it is so bad now that my penis feels like dead skin just hanging there. It is not even like I miss it - I just feel like I cannot be bothered to miss it. I agree with all you have said. I see the endo on Monday morning and will mention all of this then. I have not yet had my E2 levels checked, hence I am not on Arimidex. One option that nobody on the boards has mentioned is Mesterolone. I knew somebody who took this years back. His levels were fine, but he had very low libido. Apparently, this is one of the few T supplements which does not suppress normal LH or FSH levels and cannot be aromatised into E2. I am not sure if it is right for me, but I will discuss all of these options. Thanks for taking the time mate > > >Now, when I first started this I had low libido, up and down mood and most defo up and down dick - by no means perfect or " normal " but I could live with it. Since I started therapy on Testogel (Androgel in the USA) I have no libido whatsoever - to the point where even jacking myself off seems like a real task - and one I have no interest in. My mood is terrible and I feel like I am always having a go at everybody (even though I know it I cannot seem to stop). I LOVE going to the gym, but since starting this treatment I am not even able to stand it for 20 minutes without almost collapsing with exhaustion. You know, in my whole life I can honestly say that while I have certainly had problems with one thing or another, I do not think anybody would ever call me " depressed " but it is for sure that they would now. > > > >I am going to jack the T therapy and see what happens. The alternative seems to be taking higher T doses and then more meds to combat the side effects of the high T (which include meds for high estradiol, HCG and a lot of others), when this only started out for me as high prolactin. I think it is more trouble than it is worth, but I am also a big believer in finding this out for yourself, so please go ahead and give it a try - you may feel different about it. > > > I'm guessing your E2 is way off. Your libido should be way up - as > should morning wood. DOn't give it up until you try it when it's > right. Low T leads to osteoporosis (I broke 8 ribs before they figured > it out). It leads to lack of ambition, motivation and drive and brings > a profound mental fog. > > Try and get your E2 right. You should feel a profound difference. > > Have you had an E2 test? Are you doing arimidex? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 As I told you before the mayo clinic is going to treat symptomsd vs causes as many traditional drs will do. When you start on TRT then its going knock every thing out if its not correct first properly. I be focusing on the obvious thyroid and adrenals before testosterone which would be a bandaid appraoch same as many of our patients which where on antidepressants are not starting to lean off of them due to lifestyle, nutritoinal, and hormonal balances. IMO you are condemning your self to one hell of a rollercoaster ride. > > > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year > > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have > > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > > It has to be something my body is not understanding that > > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Just because an Endo it at the Mayo does not mean he knows what he is talking about. If you add any kind of testosterone to your body your going to shut down your chanches of your pituity starting up again on it's own. Men are put on a dam low dose of androgel 2.5 grams and when they do labs again they are lower on there T levels then they started. Why because there pituitary sees the added Testosterone in there blood and stop sending the LH and FSH messages to the testis to make more T and they end up lower then they started. When you go on TRT it's for life you can't take a low dose and then stop it's going to shut you down and your allready shut down so this will shut you down even more. I am not a Dr. but I see this all the time men see a Dr. they get there T tested find it low and the Dr. puts them on TRT without trying to find out why he is low. If you had a Tumor on your Pituitary or your Testis don't work yes go on TRT but you don't have this problem. I have young guy at a forum that tried some Shots of Testosterone and is in the same boat as you are he is not doing anything now and is feel better a little everyday. Here is a link to his post and a cut and paste. You might need to join to read this thread or maybe he will come here and post to you. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=119730061 ======================================================================= My levels prior to starting TRT (I was healthy, didn't need it, I was just being dumb). 1 Test: Test Total: 1068, Test Free Percent: 2.09, Free Test: 223.2 2nd Test: Test Total: Test Total: 792, Test Free Percent: 1.89, Free Test: 149.7 (please note those are all natural values prior to starting TRT) I had bloodwork done on Sept 25, after Nolvadex, see the schedule when I took it: Test, Total: 989, Test Free Percent: 2.08, Free Test: 205.7 I'll get more lab results soon. The Nolvadex is what messed me up, I didn't need to take it to come off TRT. I did experience hairloss, loss of libido and weightloss from the Nolvadex. I think I caused my test. to go really high and E to go low, then I took more test cream and maybe amplified the side effects. As of today, I am fatigued, losing muscle mass, putting a lil weight on, libido is almost non-existent. PS: From that Sept 25th test, I don't have the Estradiol figure, but the doc said it was in normal range. My goal is to just get back to normal (hopefully that's possible) and never use TRT until I actually need it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a > year > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I > have > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > It has to be something my body is not understanding > that > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hi Matt, I have been following your situation for a while and I feel for you. In a lot of ways, I am similar to you – I am not afraid to push anybody when I feel that I am not getting straight answers. In mid-November, I plan to see my fifth doctor since May… Did the endocrinologist at Mayo give you a reason as to why your T is low? Did the endo say anything about whether your situation may improve with time? Per chance, did the endo say anything similar to what HAN or Phil have suggested? Me – I am 34 years old. I believe that I have had low T since puberty. Most of my doctors have diagnosed me as Secondary (although one doctor did try to diagnose me as Primary). At about age 13, I started to get gynecomastia. I was told that it would go away by itself within a few years, but it did not. At age 21, I had insurance that covered the surgery, so I had a double mastectomy (one of the best decisions I have ever made). I have never had any sort of libido – to be honest, the thought of sex and kissing and physical intimacy always seemed " like an act " to me; it never made any sense. I was always the person who all of my friends trusted with their girlfriends. I also gained weight – especially around my belly. After the surgery (which removed both fat and breast tissue), my stomach looked even bigger. I also started to find myself being tired all the time. I started to take naps during the day. I basically never had any energy. About 4-5 years ago, I started to have ED problems. It got so bad that I could not obtain an erection anymore and masturbation did not even make sense anymore because it did not provide any pleasure at all – what was the point? For me, I had to get this far before asking for help. Luckily for me, my first doctor was totally inept but immediately offered TRT. When I returned to review the blood test results, he told me my Total T and Free T were low-normal, my LH and FH were low-normal, and Prolactin was normal, and that I could have a shot. He said, " by the way, after a couple of shots, you probably won't be able to have kids " and then asked if I wanted the shot. Needless to say, I accepted. Almost immediately, I developed libido. I started to notice that I had more energy and that I wasn't taking naps anymore. Weird, but my body actually felt different – sort of like an increase in self confidence of body image (which considering my past was somewhat unusual for me). My ED started to gradually get better (not perfect – but much better than before). Orgasms also started to feel totally different. Looking back, I now wonder if I was somewhat depressed before because now I feel so much better. Anyway, these elated feelings lasted for about 3-4 weeks, then seemed to start to return back to the way it was. Don't get me wrong, I still felt better than I ever did before, but it just " wasn't as good " . This went on for a few months. Later, I found Dr. 's " TRT: A Recipe For Success " guide and on the bottom of page 12 it describes my situation perfectly: " Often they will tell you they felt " incredible " the first couple of weeks (and bursting with libido), but they don't feel quite as good now, but still much better than before they started the TRT. This is because subjective findings are the best while serum androgen levels are accelerating. Adjunctive to this phenomenon is the fact their HPTA was not yet suppressed, so their endogenous production was higher then than it would be by the end of the month, and there is a burst of dopamine playing to upregulated dopamine receptors in the first days as well. TRT patients are always HPTA suppressed to greater or lesser degree. And estrogen may not have risen yet, so same is not masking the benefits of the testosterone supplementation. " Anyway, I switched from the shots to 5g of Androgel for a few months. Later, about 3 weeks ago, I got my doctor to increase my prescription to 10g of Androgel. Within the past couple of weeks, my libido has increased. Orgasms are starting to feel totally different – my breathing rate and my heart rate are very different as compared to before when having an orgasm. I really don't know how to describe it other than saying that it " just feels good now " . My girlfriend (who has known me for about 14 years) has commented on how my personality has changed for the better (over the past few months) and how I now interact with her young kids so much more than I ever used to do. My family has noticed how my belly has decreased in size even though I am not dieting. I also seem to be handling stress much better than I ever used to do – which is good because I probably have more stress than I ever have had in the past (within the past year I was asked to be Power of Attorney for my 95 year old grandmother and Guardian for my father who has dementia and I just had him move into my house in order to avoid putting him into assisted living). Pre TRT – I couldn't even walk around the block because my leg muscles would start to hurt so much that I would turn around and go home almost immediately. My back used to hurt so much that I couldn't stand for more than about 5- 10 minutes. Now, I can walk for a couple of miles without any pain at all. When performing strenuous physical activity, my body now recovers within a day or so instead of taking a week to fully recover as in the past. In many places, I have read that it takes 6+ months to realize the full benefits of TRT. I am now in my 5th month and I am still noticing new things all the time. Am I happy that I started TRT? You have no idea how happy I am… Would I stop TRT for any reason? I can only think of a few severe reasons that would cause me to stop my TRT now… Also, realize that every time I have been tested for E2, my estradiols have been above the " normal " range and so far, I have been unable to find a doctor who is willing to prescribe any aromatase inhibitor. But even with this problem, I am still happy with the results of my TRT. What did the endo from Mayo say about your situation? Did he think that your diet had anything to do with causing your current situation? Does he think that your situation may improve with time? If the answers are " yes " or " don't know " , then I would be a bit hesitant to start TRT – especially at your age. Realize that TRT will cause testicular atrophy. How will you handle that in school? In the locker room? In relationships? Etc. Yes, there are ways to use things like HCG to counteract the atrophy, but is that an option for you? Are you willing to self-medicate if you can't find a doctor to prescribe it to you? Are your parents willing to go along with that? What are your feelings about having kids in the future? Keep in mind that TRT is pretty much a life-long commitment in many cases. Based upon reading your previous posts, you seem to have above average intelligence. I trust you will probably make a wise decision rather than a decision based upon impulse. For me, there wasn't much to consider… It was pretty obvious that I had a hormonal problem in the past and my lab tests showed that I still had a problem, so choosing TRT was a no-brainer. Unfortunately, your situation is not as easy of a decision… I wish you the best of luck! Please keep us updated… > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > It has to be something my body is not understanding that > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 First off, I am very sorry to hear your situitation in being stuck with the low T. I sadly did it to myself and don't know exactly how to fix it. Supposedly after this I can finish maturing at the normal rate that I was before the weight loss. I have thought of many of the things you mentioned and I don't think there would be much of a problem there, I'm pretty well respected from my past history in athletics and just being nice to all the guys around school. Before this hit I was normal. I guess there's hope. My endocrinologists sounded hopeful and that it would take time but low dose testosterone controlled would be benefeicial. Not sure I just put my faith into her. Wish you luck too. ________________________________ From: rj1379 <hostmaster@...> Sent: Wed, October 28, 2009 9:21:19 AM Subject: Re: Stuck in starvation.  Hi Matt, I have been following your situation for a while and I feel for you. In a lot of ways, I am similar to you – I am not afraid to push anybody when I feel that I am not getting straight answers. In mid-November, I plan to see my fifth doctor since May… Did the endocrinologist at Mayo give you a reason as to why your T is low? Did the endo say anything about whether your situation may improve with time? Per chance, did the endo say anything similar to what HAN or Phil have suggested? Me – I am 34 years old. I believe that I have had low T since puberty. Most of my doctors have diagnosed me as Secondary (although one doctor did try to diagnose me as Primary). At about age 13, I started to get gynecomastia. I was told that it would go away by itself within a few years, but it did not. At age 21, I had insurance that covered the surgery, so I had a double mastectomy (one of the best decisions I have ever made). I have never had any sort of libido – to be honest, the thought of sex and kissing and physical intimacy always seemed " like an act " to me; it never made any sense. I was always the person who all of my friends trusted with their girlfriends. I also gained weight – especially around my belly. After the surgery (which removed both fat and breast tissue), my stomach looked even bigger. I also started to find myself being tired all the time. I started to take naps during the day. I basically never had any energy. About 4-5 years ago, I started to have ED problems. It got so bad that I could not obtain an erection anymore and masturbation did not even make sense anymore because it did not provide any pleasure at all – what was the point? For me, I had to get this far before asking for help. Luckily for me, my first doctor was totally inept but immediately offered TRT. When I returned to review the blood test results, he told me my Total T and Free T were low-normal, my LH and FH were low-normal, and Prolactin was normal, and that I could have a shot. He said, " by the way, after a couple of shots, you probably won't be able to have kids " and then asked if I wanted the shot. Needless to say, I accepted. Almost immediately, I developed libido. I started to notice that I had more energy and that I wasn't taking naps anymore. Weird, but my body actually felt different – sort of like an increase in self confidence of body image (which considering my past was somewhat unusual for me). My ED started to gradually get better (not perfect – but much better than before). Orgasms also started to feel totally different. Looking back, I now wonder if I was somewhat depressed before because now I feel so much better. Anyway, these elated feelings lasted for about 3-4 weeks, then seemed to start to return back to the way it was. Don't get me wrong, I still felt better than I ever did before, but it just " wasn't as good " . This went on for a few months. Later, I found Dr. 's " TRT: A Recipe For Success " guide and on the bottom of page 12 it describes my situation perfectly: " Often they will tell you they felt " incredible " the first couple of weeks (and bursting with libido), but they don't feel quite as good now, but still much better than before they started the TRT. This is because subjective findings are the best while serum androgen levels are accelerating. Adjunctive to this phenomenon is the fact their HPTA was not yet suppressed, so their endogenous production was higher then than it would be by the end of the month, and there is a burst of dopamine playing to upregulated dopamine receptors in the first days as well. TRT patients are always HPTA suppressed to greater or lesser degree. And estrogen may not have risen yet, so same is not masking the benefits of the testosterone supplementation. " Anyway, I switched from the shots to 5g of Androgel for a few months. Later, about 3 weeks ago, I got my doctor to increase my prescription to 10g of Androgel. Within the past couple of weeks, my libido has increased. Orgasms are starting to feel totally different – my breathing rate and my heart rate are very different as compared to before when having an orgasm. I really don't know how to describe it other than saying that it " just feels good now " . My girlfriend (who has known me for about 14 years) has commented on how my personality has changed for the better (over the past few months) and how I now interact with her young kids so much more than I ever used to do. My family has noticed how my belly has decreased in size even though I am not dieting. I also seem to be handling stress much better than I ever used to do – which is good because I probably have more stress than I ever have had in the past (within the past year I was asked to be Power of Attorney for my 95 year old grandmother and Guardian for my father who has dementia and I just had him move into my house in order to avoid putting him into assisted living). Pre TRT – I couldn't even walk around the block because my leg muscles would start to hurt so much that I would turn around and go home almost immediately. My back used to hurt so much that I couldn't stand for more than about 5- 10 minutes. Now, I can walk for a couple of miles without any pain at all. When performing strenuous physical activity, my body now recovers within a day or so instead of taking a week to fully recover as in the past. In many places, I have read that it takes 6+ months to realize the full benefits of TRT. I am now in my 5th month and I am still noticing new things all the time. Am I happy that I started TRT? You have no idea how happy I am… Would I stop TRT for any reason? I can only think of a few severe reasons that would cause me to stop my TRT now… Also, realize that every time I have been tested for E2, my estradiols have been above the " normal " range and so far, I have been unable to find a doctor who is willing to prescribe any aromatase inhibitor. But even with this problem, I am still happy with the results of my TRT. What did the endo from Mayo say about your situation? Did he think that your diet had anything to do with causing your current situation? Does he think that your situation may improve with time? If the answers are " yes " or " don't know " , then I would be a bit hesitant to start TRT – especially at your age. Realize that TRT will cause testicular atrophy. How will you handle that in school? In the locker room? In relationships? Etc. Yes, there are ways to use things like HCG to counteract the atrophy, but is that an option for you? Are you willing to self-medicate if you can't find a doctor to prescribe it to you? Are your parents willing to go along with that? What are your feelings about having kids in the future? Keep in mind that TRT is pretty much a life-long commitment in many cases. Based upon reading your previous posts, you seem to have above average intelligence. I trust you will probably make a wise decision rather than a decision based upon impulse. For me, there wasn't much to consider… It was pretty obvious that I had a hormonal problem in the past and my lab tests showed that I still had a problem, so choosing TRT was a no-brainer. Unfortunately, your situation is not as easy of a decision… I wish you the best of luck! Please keep us updated… > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > It has to be something my body is not understanding that > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 You sir, are the single greatest man online for hormonal problems. Thank you very much for everything. As I've said she didn't just throw the testosterone at me, she wanted to look why my T was low so she did an MRI and is hesitant about the low dose T, first off I might not be done growing so she's waiting for my wrist X-ray to come back. I trust in her decisions so far. ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Wed, October 28, 2009 8:34:53 AM Subject: Re: Stuck in starvation. Just because an Endo it at the Mayo does not mean he knows what he is talking about. If you add any kind of testosterone to your body your going to shut down your chanches of your pituity starting up again on it's own. Men are put on a dam low dose of androgel 2.5 grams and when they do labs again they are lower on there T levels then they started. Why because there pituitary sees the added Testosterone in there blood and stop sending the LH and FSH messages to the testis to make more T and they end up lower then they started. When you go on TRT it's for life you can't take a low dose and then stop it's going to shut you down and your allready shut down so this will shut you down even more. I am not a Dr. but I see this all the time men see a Dr. they get there T tested find it low and the Dr. puts them on TRT without trying to find out why he is low. If you had a Tumor on your Pituitary or your Testis don't work yes go on TRT but you don't have this problem. I have young guy at a forum that tried some Shots of Testosterone and is in the same boat as you are he is not doing anything now and is feel better a little everyday. Here is a link to his post and a cut and paste. You might need to join to read this thread or maybe he will come here and post to you. http://forum. bodybuilding. com/showthread. php?t=119730061 ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ===== My levels prior to starting TRT (I was healthy, didn't need it, I was just being dumb). 1 Test: Test Total: 1068, Test Free Percent: 2.09, Free Test: 223.2 2nd Test: Test Total: Test Total: 792, Test Free Percent: 1.89, Free Test: 149.7 (please note those are all natural values prior to starting TRT) I had bloodwork done on Sept 25, after Nolvadex, see the schedule when I took it: Test, Total: 989, Test Free Percent: 2.08, Free Test: 205.7 I'll get more lab results soon. The Nolvadex is what messed me up, I didn't need to take it to come off TRT.. I did experience hairloss, loss of libido and weightloss from the Nolvadex. I think I caused my test. to go really high and E to go low, then I took more test cream and maybe amplified the side effects. As of today, I am fatigued, losing muscle mass, putting a lil weight on, libido is almost non-existent. PS: From that Sept 25th test, I don't have the Estradiol figure, but the doc said it was in normal range. My goal is to just get back to normal (hopefully that's possible) and never use TRT until I actually need it. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a > year > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I > have > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > It has to be something my body is not understanding > that > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 If you feel you need to get your Testosterone levels up go on Novarel HCG do a 100 IU's shot every day. This will act like LH and FSH and make your testis make there own testosterone so your not shut down more and when you come off it your body might jump back and make there own T. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight > over a > > year > > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, > I > > have > > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > > It has to be something my body is not > understanding > > that > > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 They have tested the thyroid and adrenals extensively there is no doubt now in my mind that it is a problem of hypogonadism. My morning cortisol is normal and all the thyroid hormones are fine. If I get stuck in the mindframe that the rest of my hormones are fucked up, I won't get to the point of the real problem, low T. ________________________________ From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...> Sent: Wed, October 28, 2009 8:15:10 AM Subject: Re: Stuck in starvation. As I told you before the mayo clinic is going to treat symptomsd vs causes as many traditional drs will do. When you start on TRT then its going knock every thing out if its not correct first properly. I be focusing on the obvious thyroid and adrenals before testosterone which would be a bandaid appraoch same as many of our patients which where on antidepressants are not starting to lean off of them due to lifestyle, nutritoinal, and hormonal balances. IMO you are condemning your self to one hell of a rollercoaster ride. > > > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year > > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have > > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > > It has to be something my body is not understanding that > > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Would you have any idea why I lost 4 lbs but lost my six pack with a small layer of fat over my abdomen/ ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Wed, October 28, 2009 3:01:07 PM Subject: Re: Stuck in starvation. If you feel you need to get your Testosterone levels up go on Novarel HCG do a 100 IU's shot every day. This will act like LH and FSH and make your testis make there own testosterone so your not shut down more and when you come off it your body might jump back and make there own T. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71@ ..com> > > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight > over a > > year > > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, > I > > have > > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > > It has to be something my body is not > understanding > > that > > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 No I don't under stand this are you eating. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71@ ..com> > > > > Subject: Stuck in > starvation. > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > > > in starvation mode from when I lost that > weight > > over a > > > year > > > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify > this, > > I > > > have > > > > gained the weight back yet am always > hungry. > > > > It has to be something my body is not > > understanding > > > that > > > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Yes eating normally. Could you give me a possible diet plan to look at and maybe try? ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> Sent: Wed, October 28, 2009 3:46:23 PM Subject: Re: Stuck in starvation. No I don't under stand this are you eating. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71@ ..com> > > > > Subject: Stuck in > starvation. > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > > > in starvation mode from when I lost that > weight > > over a > > > year > > > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify > this, > > I > > > have > > > > gained the weight back yet am always > hungry. > > > > It has to be something my body is not > > understanding > > > that > > > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Eat proper fats in proper ratio while providing the right nutrients to help build testosterone. If cholesterol is low you eat alot of cholesterol based foods still does not raise then you may be paradoxical like my self. I just ran some guys on clomid and results have been really good, but they also had issues such as thyroid and adrenals ruled out. REstart must be supplied with proper nutrients in order for the hormone to have the necessary building block. > > > > > > > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71@ ..com> > > > > > Subject: Stuck in > > starvation. > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > > > > in starvation mode from when I lost that > > weight > > > over a > > > > year > > > > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify > > this, > > > I > > > > have > > > > > gained the weight back yet am always > > hungry. > > > > > It has to be something my body is not > > > understanding > > > > that > > > > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hardasnails would be the best guy to see what you need to eat I am over weight and follow Weight Watchers program to lose weight. Make sure you eat enough meat. Co-Moderator Phil > > > > > > > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71@ > ..com> > > > > > Subject: Stuck in > > starvation. > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 > PM > > > > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > > > > in starvation mode from when I lost > that > > weight > > > over a > > > > year > > > > > ago. Is there hormone markers to > identify > > this, > > > I > > > > have > > > > > gained the weight back yet am always > > hungry. > > > > > It has to be something my body is not > > > understanding > > > > that > > > > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > ------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Please provide testing they completed. Did they do reverse t3? > > > > > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year > > > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have > > > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > > > It has to be something my body is not understanding that > > > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 They took LH and FSH which were the same as always, low. Reverse T3 was 138 pg/mL (90-350) pg/mL I havn't heard about the MRI or the growth plate X-ray yet. ________________________________ From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...> @... Sent: Wed, October 28, 2009 5:19:49 PM Subject: Re: Stuck in starvation. Please provide testing they completed. Did they do reverse t3? > > > > > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight over a year > > > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, I have > > > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > > > It has to be something my body is not understanding that > > > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I can't find any info on the diet he did. Can someone repost it. Hang in there Matt! - Marc > > > > > > > From: Matt <mattobrien71> > > > > Subject: Stuck in starvation. > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > > It seems as though my body is stuck > > > > in starvation mode from when I lost that weight > > over a > > > year > > > > ago. Is there hormone markers to identify this, > > I > > > have > > > > gained the weight back yet am always hungry. > > > > It has to be something my body is not > > understanding > > > that > > > > can be fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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