Re: Dragging ass - Thanks all

[Guest guest]

To clarify:

I have been off TRT for 5 weeks now..will get labs drawn end of next week.

Last lab was 3rd day after 80mg injection and Total T was 650, no E2 taken.

Previous Lab was 1288 5 days after 100mg injection with E2 76. Beginning to

wonder validty of 1288 reading.

Now Endo is wondering why I feel the same with 350 T and 1288 T? and now 650

T. not once considering E2. at 1288 he thinks regardless of E2 i should feel

great...is he right? think about it..the ratio is probably ideal. Body builders

are hanging around that range and they're still horny right?

As for TRT and Arimidex...I'm all set with that. I have a family Dr willing

to work with me to get it right before he says that my T levels aren't the

issue. I'm more concerned with getting treated with HCG...as wife and I want to

have kids like right now. Family Dr isn't all that familiar with HCG. that's

why i went to see the Endo.

In the meantime I was considering OTC DHEA. my DHEA is 160 with ref range of

80-560. i know DHEA is a precursor to T. if i get my DHEA up to healthier

levels maybe my T will rise on it's own...which would be beneficial over TRT as

my Testes will be working. My LH is normally around 4 (2-9 range) so i'm pretty

much in the damn Gray area.

your thoughts

Jack

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 06:45:57 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Hi Rich

>

> I'm very confused right now. I had labs drawn after the Endo visit (3rd day

after 80mg shot) and last night he said over the phone that my levels came back

at 650 Total T (241-847) and 3.4 Free T (.95 - 4.8 range). didn't check

Estradiol. said LH/FSH were normal??? Not sure how while on TRT.

Probably LH and FSH are very low " normal " or he realizes they don't

have a role anymore and used " normal " as a brush off. No big deal .

FSH and LH are meaningless on TRT unless you have HCG involved.

>

> What the hell could've happened. last labs on 100mg/wk came back Total T 1288

after 5th day of shot with 76 E2. now it's 650?

I'd guess the 1288 was not accurate.

I find 650 a pretty good level. It's median for most age groups. If

you can manage E2 it's a pretty good level. Personally I shoot for 600

to 700.

> also, Endo is confused as to why i wasn't feeling better with T levels at

1288...why i felt the same as to T levels in 300 range. I guess he doesn't

understand E2? is it possible T labs were mistaken the 1st time (1288 readings).

i wasn't using gels so that couldn't have spiked it.

Very definitely an E2 issue. I can't imagine anyone having 1200 levels

without really high E2. You wouldn;t feel the T much at all with the

levels of E2 that would generate for most of us.

> wife talked to him last night and he didn't sound promising as to what to do

next. I was an interesting case that he is taking to the rest of the Endo's at

some clinic. he wants labs drawn 2 weeks from now (6 week mark) and said we'll

see what they say and go from there. fear is that my T may in fact come back

low..but he doesn't think raising T is the answer cuz my T in 1200 range didn't

do anything for me.

Bring him some info on E2.

>

> I guess I need to pull some studies quoting E2 and problems it causes.

Ah you've got it! Exactly.

>wife and i are both a little confused/scared. hoping to hear more optimism out

of the Endo but didn't get it.

Fear not. Just bring him the arimidex and E2 studies, a snippet from

CHrisler's on E2 www.allthingsmale.com . And urge him (gently) to give

it a try. Once you find out what your E2 level is post here and

people will help you dose the arimidex.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

---------------------------------

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

We have a guy at Meso that just posted he got his wife pregnant on TRT. Here is

a link.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/animals-kids-trt-not-134245860.\

html

Phil

Jack <rockin813@...> wrote:

To clarify:

I have been off TRT for 5 weeks now..will get labs drawn end of next week.

Last lab was 3rd day after 80mg injection and Total T was 650, no E2 taken.

Previous Lab was 1288 5 days after 100mg injection with E2 76. Beginning to

wonder validty of 1288 reading.

Now Endo is wondering why I feel the same with 350 T and 1288 T? and now 650 T.

not once considering E2. at 1288 he thinks regardless of E2 i should feel

great...is he right? think about it..the ratio is probably ideal. Body builders

are hanging around that range and they're still horny right?

As for TRT and Arimidex...I'm all set with that. I have a family Dr willing to

work with me to get it right before he says that my T levels aren't the issue.

I'm more concerned with getting treated with HCG...as wife and I want to have

kids like right now. Family Dr isn't all that familiar with HCG. that's why i

went to see the Endo.

In the meantime I was considering OTC DHEA. my DHEA is 160 with ref range of

80-560. i know DHEA is a precursor to T. if i get my DHEA up to healthier levels

maybe my T will rise on it's own...which would be beneficial over TRT as my

Testes will be working. My LH is normally around 4 (2-9 range) so i'm pretty

much in the damn Gray area.

your thoughts

Jack

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 06:45:57 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Hi Rich

>

> I'm very confused right now. I had labs drawn after the Endo visit (3rd day

after 80mg shot) and last night he said over the phone that my levels came back

at 650 Total T (241-847) and 3.4 Free T (.95 - 4.8 range). didn't check

Estradiol. said LH/FSH were normal??? Not sure how while on TRT.

Probably LH and FSH are very low " normal " or he realizes they don't

have a role anymore and used " normal " as a brush off. No big deal .

FSH and LH are meaningless on TRT unless you have HCG involved.

>

> What the hell could've happened. last labs on 100mg/wk came back Total T 1288

after 5th day of shot with 76 E2. now it's 650?

I'd guess the 1288 was not accurate.

I find 650 a pretty good level. It's median for most age groups. If

you can manage E2 it's a pretty good level. Personally I shoot for 600

to 700.

> also, Endo is confused as to why i wasn't feeling better with T levels at

1288...why i felt the same as to T levels in 300 range. I guess he doesn't

understand E2? is it possible T labs were mistaken the 1st time (1288 readings).

i wasn't using gels so that couldn't have spiked it.

Very definitely an E2 issue. I can't imagine anyone having 1200 levels

without really high E2. You wouldn;t feel the T much at all with the

levels of E2 that would generate for most of us.

> wife talked to him last night and he didn't sound promising as to what to do

next. I was an interesting case that he is taking to the rest of the Endo's at

some clinic. he wants labs drawn 2 weeks from now (6 week mark) and said we'll

see what they say and go from there. fear is that my T may in fact come back

low..but he doesn't think raising T is the answer cuz my T in 1200 range didn't

do anything for me.

Bring him some info on E2.

>

> I guess I need to pull some studies quoting E2 and problems it causes.

Ah you've got it! Exactly.

>wife and i are both a little confused/scared. hoping to hear more optimism out

of the Endo but didn't get it.

Fear not. Just bring him the arimidex and E2 studies, a snippet from

CHrisler's on E2 www.allthingsmale.com . And urge him (gently) to give

it a try. Once you find out what your E2 level is post here and

people will help you dose the arimidex.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

---------------------------------

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

DHEA did help back when I was younger as it increased

libido and etc. But time and the adverse effects of

Prilosec (omeprazole) caused it lose any benefical effect.

So I stopped using it. Then after the the use of Aciphex and various

forms of Prilosec, I quit the acid suppressing meds due to their

toxic effects. The aforementioned meds slow the breakdown of estradiol

in both genders. Anyway in 2004, I quit using this class

of meds due the various adverse effects. And I did go to

a Life-Extension Doc who suggests after tests that

I start on DHEA. First I try 25 milligrams and then

the Doc tells to take 50 milligrams on the basis of

blood tests which only increases my serum levels

a little bit. This got me back into the bottom end of

the so-called normal range. So I suggest 75 milligrams,

the Doc gives me a odd look. Anyway, the DHEA at this

level of oral intake caused my breasts to itch annd

did nothing for libido or even morninng erection firmness..

Then I gave it up after some months. It didn't feel

good for the prostate either. I am pretty sure it

was raising my estrogen levels.

Currently I am experimenting with

pregnenolone, it seems to help on mental clarity but

otherwise it effects aren't predictable. I never went

back to the Doc. He was suggesting the use human growth hormone.

As my total testosterone is in the 300's and and free T is

was in the lower third, I felt he should at least mentioned

that this was low. He did agree the free T levels should

be in the upper 1/3 if under treatment. He listen too

much and gave out far too little information. I think

he main did GH and did little with testosterone. He

even mentioned he took his Dad to a testosterone clinic

in AZ or CA. He wasn't a bad guy but testosterone was

just a bridge too far for him.

Looks like I am going to be spending more big bucks

on testing and Docs. It looks like the Yelm clinic

is my best bet.

So things on my list if things to do are

an appointment with either the testosterone

tune-up Doc who is closer or the Yelm clinic.

And to get my body mass index down from 27 to

23 or lower.

My strength is getting worse each year. In the past

two years, I've had just exactly two erotic thoughts.

When I was young I'd have that many in an hour.

The morning erections come

and go. Some of my experiment with prohormones help somewhat

but the effects don't seem to hold.

So you've my comments on DHEA.

If you look at the med lit, DHEA in male by way

of the oral route tends to increase estrogen levels

as much or more than androgen levels. In women,

it increases androgens more than estrogen levels.

So likely it is good for the bones and bad for the

prostate.

>

> >Hi Rich

> >

> > I'm very confused right now. I had labs drawn after the Endo

visit (3rd day after 80mg shot) and last night he said over the phone

that my levels came back at 650 Total T (241-847) and 3.4 Free T

(.95 - 4.8 range). didn't check Estradiol. said LH/FSH were normal???

Not sure how while on TRT.

>

> Probably LH and FSH are very low " normal " or he realizes they don't

> have a role anymore and used " normal " as a brush off. No big deal .

> FSH and LH are meaningless on TRT unless you have HCG involved.

> >

> > What the hell could've happened. last labs on 100mg/wk came back

Total T 1288 after 5th day of shot with 76 E2. now it's 650?

>

> I'd guess the 1288 was not accurate.

> I find 650 a pretty good level. It's median for most age groups. If

> you can manage E2 it's a pretty good level. Personally I shoot for

600

> to 700.

>

> > also, Endo is confused as to why i wasn't feeling better with T

levels at 1288...why i felt the same as to T levels in 300 range. I

guess he doesn't understand E2? is it possible T labs were mistaken

the 1st time (1288 readings). i wasn't using gels so that couldn't

have spiked it.

>

> Very definitely an E2 issue. I can't imagine anyone having 1200

levels

> without really high E2. You wouldn;t feel the T much at all with the

> levels of E2 that would generate for most of us.

>

> > wife talked to him last night and he didn't sound promising as to

what to do next. I was an interesting case that he is taking to the

rest of the Endo's at some clinic. he wants labs drawn 2 weeks from

now (6 week mark) and said we'll see what they say and go from there.

fear is that my T may in fact come back low..but he doesn't think

raising T is the answer cuz my T in 1200 range didn't do anything for

me.

>

> Bring him some info on E2.

> >

> > I guess I need to pull some studies quoting E2 and problems it

causes.

>

> Ah you've got it! Exactly.

>

> >wife and i are both a little confused/scared. hoping to hear more

optimism out of the Endo but didn't get it.

>

> Fear not. Just bring him the arimidex and E2 studies, a snippet from

> CHrisler's on E2 www.allthingsmale.com . And urge him (gently) to

give

> it a try. Once you find out what your E2 level is post here and

> people will help you dose the arimidex.

>

> ________________

> I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

> Terence

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and

30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

>

>