Re: Re: How to use insulin syringes for injections?

[Guest guest]

Did your doctor give you and Intramuscular injection (IM) or a Subcutaneous

Injection (SubQ) and what does he expect you to give yourself? If he prescribed

1 1/2 inch needles then I assume he wants you to inject IM. Maybe your doctor

did not explain his instructions well and you may have to ask him for

clairification. IM goes deep into a muscle usually butt or thigh, and SubQ goes

shallow into the fatty layer between the skin and muscle, usually on your

stomach or torso.

These 2 injection methods are VERY different and use different needles and

syringes. You can find a lot of information about the 2 different methods by

using google. Insulin syringes are only used for SubQ and larger needles are

used for IM. You NEVER inject testosterone into a vein. Doing so can be very

dangerous.

My doctor has me inject small amounts of testosterone subcutaneously into my

belly fat 3 times a week using an insulin syringe. You use the same needle

(which is not removable from the syringe) to draw the oil into the sringe and

then to inject yourself. The needle does not get dull for this type of SubQ

injection and it is painless. The oil draws very slowly into the syringe becaue

the needle is so tiny and the oil is viscous. It takes several minutes to draw

the required amount.

I hope this helps.

________________________________

From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...>

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 2:41:49 AM

Subject: Re: How to use insulin syringes for injections?

Hi Larry-

I hope your weekend has gone well so far.

1) It sounds like the syringe you have is a combo syringe with a

needle. Or it may be a pre-load in which insulin is inserted into it

(rather than drawn by the needle). It may not allow you to switch

needles. There are individual syringes sold separately from needles.

Becton-Dickinson have 1 mL/cc tuberculin syringes which allow any

size needle to be fixed onto them. (By the way, ReliOn just had a

recall on syringes due to inappropriately labeled markings [which can

result in injecting more than indicated]. Hopefully, you don't have

the ReliOn [Walmart] brand.)

2) Assuming 100 mg/wk Depo T/Test Cyp. is the " correct " dose for you

(it's a good starting point), you should finish the week near the

lower end of the reference range or perhaps slightly below it. That

would show that you aren't overdosing (though might be underdosing,

depending on how low you are). Dr. reports variation & how

difficult it is to predict exactly how a man will respond, but

generally, 100 mg/wk Depo T parallels normal weekly production of

testosterone. Again, however, you need to have estradiol tested to

make sure it doesn't sap your improvement despite a " good "

testosterone reading. Every 10 points over 25 pg/mL can sap a good

chunk of testosterone- perhaps around 100 ng/dL.

3) Shorter needles will make it take longer to draw the oil out of the

vial. As for which provides better, more level absorption- IM or sub

Q- I couldn't say. Anyone want to weigh in here with their

experiences? At 100 mg Depo T per week, you aren't likely to crash.

Depo T/Test Cyp. was designed to last about a week (vs. Test. Prop.,

which is active for about 2-3 days).

4) A vial should cost around $30-$40, depending on its size (5mL or 10

mL) & where you fill the prescription. $30 might be a fair estimate

for monthly Depo T cost (though even a 5 mL vial should last you

almost 10 weeks at your dosage strength). Sometimes insurance covers

it, sometimes it doesn't.

Good point about E2- you need to get the " sensitive " or

" ultrasensitive " test- whichever one is available & affordable.

Labcorp offers a sensitive E2 test, whereas Quest does an

ultrasensitive test. These tests report male reference ranges for

estradiol, so they will show an actual number if you are below 15

pg/mL or above 53 pg/mL (vs. other estradiol tests designed for women).

Hope you're experiencing the benefits of T already.

~Xian

>

> Hi,

>

> Dr's office injected first testosterone Wednesday afternoon and gave

> me a script for Depo Test 200g/ml inject 1cc q 2 weeks. Syringe

> prescription is 3cc w 22 1 and 1/2 in needles. Area has no brusing but

> still hurts.

>

> I already know from the posts that it would be better to do a half

> dose every week, and use a smaller needle to inject.

>

> Questions

>

> 1. It does not appear that the insulin syringes I have come apart? So

> how do I get the testosterone in them to inject it? (If I draw with it

> then I'll have dulled it.)

>

> 2. If I do it every week then at the end of the cycle when Dr wants a

> blood test should I be expecting it to still be in range if we are

> injecting the correct dose?

>

> 3. What is the difference between using 1 1/2 in needle as Dr. wrote

> for vs. 1/2 inch needles like I have and hope will cause less pain?

> Does it mean I can't get to a vein? I " m assuming it will mean a subQ

> and slower absorption and therefore more level amounts in the body

> instead of going up high and crashing.

>

> 4. In US with insurance how much should I expect the vial to cost?

>

> Still waiting on results of blood work that was draw before injection

> was given, but he didn't think he lab had the ability to test E2.

>

>

> Larry

>

[Guest guest]

The needles I have are insulin syringes with the needle fused to the syringe.

They are really tiny needles, 31G and 5/16 " so they are impossible to use for

anything other than subQ. If you have syringes with a luer-lok, you can use a

larger needle and do an IM injection.

At one time I had some very nice luer-lok syringes. They are made of a very

strong and clear polycarbonate plastic and have many percise markings. The

syringes are BD 1ml syringe with luer-lok tip, REF 309628

http://catalog.bd.com/bdCat/viewProduct.doCustomer?productNumber=309628 Great

for IM of smaller amounts.

I prefer the subQ injections, so far it has worked great!

________________________________

From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...>

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:32:44 AM

Subject: Re: How to use insulin syringes for injections?

Thanks for commenting, .

Allow me to clarify some things. I'm not a promoter of any particular

size or syringe, so long as one can read the amount drawn into the

syringe easily & can minimize pain. My mention of insulin *syringes*

(not insulin needles) was due to the fact that they are somewhat

easier to fill & have more markings so you can get a more precise

measurement of how much you're injecting. Insulin syringes can be

used either for IM or subQ injections. In message #45413, matttaylor

mentions using insulin syringes to inject into the vastus lateralis

(outer muscle of the leg). One fact to note about insulin syringes is

that they aren't *recommended* for measurement purposes of fractions

of a mL/cc; rather, they have delineations for " units " . However, I

have personally compared them to 5 mL syringes & have found their 10

unit delineations correspond more or less to every .1 mL on the larger

syringe. Also, insulin *syringes* (not needle/syringe combos) allow

you to switch the needle size. Here's a pic so we can make sure we're

referring to the same item :

http://www.jrsmedic al.com/SYRINGES_ ONLY/BND309602/ product.aspx

The needle size I suggested was *not* an insulin needle. It was a 27

G needle, which is bigger than an insulin needle. I mentioned it

because 1) it doesn't hurt as much as larger needles (25, 22, or 20 G)

& 2) it doesn't take quite as long to inject all the oil using a 27 G

needle vs. a 30 G needle. Go to message #45923 which details about

the needle sizes used by other members on this group.

As for expense, in the same message above (#45413) by matttaylor, he

mentioned the cost of 10 mL 200 mg/mL Test Cyp/Depo T as $42.50 for

those with a Sam's Club business membership. If your injection

schedule is 100 mg once per week, this quantity could last you almost

20 weeks (allowing for some inadvertent loss of oil during injection

time). Again, prices vary across the country.

In matt's message, he mentions a more frequent dosing schedule done

with smaller amounts- 28 mg every other day. A more popular strategy

by patients of Dr. Crisler (including some men in this group) is

50 mg Test Cyp. every 3 days. If you consider this ( & don't mind more

frequent injection), you should talk with your doctor first & educate

him on T to E2 conversion.

In any event, I hope you find what works for you to help you feel

better & spend less money.

~Xian

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > Dr's office injected first testosterone Wednesday afternoon and gave

> > me a script for Depo Test 200g/ml inject 1cc q 2 weeks. Syringe

> > prescription is 3cc w 22 1 and 1/2 in needles. Area has no brusing but

> > still hurts.

> >

> > I already know from the posts that it would be better to do a half

> > dose every week, and use a smaller needle to inject.

> >

> > Questions

> >

> > 1. It does not appear that the insulin syringes I have come apart? So

> > how do I get the testosterone in them to inject it? (If I draw with it

> > then I'll have dulled it.)

> >

> > 2. If I do it every week then at the end of the cycle when Dr wants a

> > blood test should I be expecting it to still be in range if we are

> > injecting the correct dose?

> >

> > 3. What is the difference between using 1 1/2 in needle as Dr. wrote

> > for vs. 1/2 inch needles like I have and hope will cause less pain?

> > Does it mean I can't get to a vein? I " m assuming it will mean a subQ

> > and slower absorption and therefore more level amounts in the body

> > instead of going up high and crashing.

> >

> > 4. In US with insurance how much should I expect the vial to cost?

> >

> > Still waiting on results of blood work that was draw before injection

> > was given, but he didn't think he lab had the ability to test E2.

> >

> >

> > Larry

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>