Re: I need some advice!

March 30, 2000

I need some help from those on the list who are more experienced and well

versed in dealing with obsessions. Well, I am not sure if it is an obsession

or compulsion, or comes from one of her other disorders, but here is my

problem.

My daughter (age 11) rescues animals. Any animal, any where. Loose dogs,

loose cats, animals that neighbors don't want, wild animals (last week it was

a muskrat, putting her in danger of rabies, fleas, and who knows what else).

I have gotten quite angry about the weekly arrival of new animals. We live

in a small house with two dogs, a cat, fish, a frog, a hermit crab, a turtle,

and there is no more room! I resent having to take animals to the humane

shelter every week. They must think I am nuts too, showing up every week

with another animal to dump. I love animals and I hate being forced to do

this. I hate being the " bad guy " when the animal obviously needs help, but I

just can't take any more animals! The wild ones I take to the reservoir, the

domestic ones to the humane shelter. If there are no animals around to be

rescued, she lets the neighbor's animals out of the yard and declares she

found them running loose and has to " care " for them til someone comes home.

If all else fails, she goes in the backyard and digs up bugs and puts them in

containers, hundreds and hundreds of bugs (the type depends on the season).

Wasps, pill bugs, spiders, grasshoppers, leafhoppers, assassin bugs, beetles,

ants are among some of the bugs she has. She also has a slug collection (she

feeds them potato peelings) and worms. Heaven forbid that any of the bugs

die, then it's major hysterics. I Need Help!

How do I deal correctly with this obsession to acquire animals? How do I not

enable it? How do I help her " boss " it? I can't make her turn the animals

loose, that's cruel to the animals. Any ideas on how to stop this relentless

parade of animals would be welcome. I don't need any more cats, dogs,

muskrats, squirrels, mice, rats, etc. etc. etc.

Can you tell I am frustrated?

Jay in Colorado

March 30, 2000

Interesting. My son has similar inclinations, but because he is 14 he

has them under a bit better control. He is very angry with his

therapist at the moment because at his session today they discussed his

fear of walking outside when it is wet lest he step on an earthworm. So

she suggested bringing in earthworms and they would step on them

together! Clearly she thought it was a contamination phobia and didn't

know where he was coming from. His dad brought him, so I couldnt set

her straight.

I wonder what it will be like when Dan has his own house--I think his

concern for the well being of the animals will keep him from having too

many (I hope).

I have no suggestions except to make sure she thinks first of the

welfare of the animals (no letting the neighbors pets out of the yard,

for example.)

Judy

Jay7138658@... wrote:

>

> I need some help from those on the list who are more experienced and

> well

> versed in dealing with obsessions. Well, I am not sure if it is an

> obsession

> or compulsion, or comes from one of her other disorders, but here is

> my

> problem.

>

> My daughter (age 11) rescues animals. Any animal, any where. Loose

> dogs,

> loose cats, animals that neighbors don't want, wild animals (last week

> it was

> a muskrat, putting her in danger of rabies, fleas, and who knows what

> else).

> I have gotten quite angry about the weekly arrival of new animals. We

> live

> in a small house with two dogs, a cat, fish, a frog, a hermit crab, a

> turtle,

> and there is no more room! I resent having to take animals to the

> humane

> shelter every week. They must think I am nuts too, showing up every

> week

> with another animal to dump. I love animals and I hate being forced

> to do

> this. I hate being the " bad guy " when the animal obviously needs

> help, but I

> just can't take any more animals! The wild ones I take to the

> reservoir, the

> domestic ones to the humane shelter. If there are no animals around

> to be

> rescued, she lets the neighbor's animals out of the yard and declares

> she

> found them running loose and has to " care " for them til someone comes

> home.

> If all else fails, she goes in the backyard and digs up bugs and puts

> them in

> containers, hundreds and hundreds of bugs (the type depends on the

> season).

> Wasps, pill bugs, spiders, grasshoppers, leafhoppers, assassin bugs,

> beetles,

> ants are among some of the bugs she has. She also has a slug

> collection (she

> feeds them potato peelings) and worms. Heaven forbid that any of the

> bugs

> die, then it's major hysterics. I Need Help!

>

> How do I deal correctly with this obsession to acquire animals? How

> do I not

> enable it? How do I help her " boss " it? I can't make her turn the

> animals

> loose, that's cruel to the animals. Any ideas on how to stop this

> relentless

> parade of animals would be welcome. I don't need any more cats, dogs,

>

> muskrats, squirrels, mice, rats, etc. etc. etc.

> Can you tell I am frustrated?

> Jay in Colorado

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing

> listserv@... .

> In the body of your message write:

> subscribe OCD-L your name.

> The Archives and Links List for the OCD and

> Parenting List may be accessed by going to

> / .

> Enter your email address and password.

> Click on the highlighted list name and then click on message archives

> by month or links located in the toolbar.

March 30, 2000

Hi Judy:

Hard as it is (I am a member of PETA, etc.) the exposure designed for your

son is the way to go. Imaginal stuff might help, but there is nothing like

in vivo. Perhaps he can start small with bringing in soil from the outside

that is wet but has no earthworms, but it would be important not to provide

reassurance that there are no earthworms in the soil.

This sounds like a hypermorality concern and the exposure is not that

different from for a contamination concern. The idea is to live with the

uncertainty that something bad might happen to the animals that are not

being taken care of, not to convince them that the animals will die of

neglect. They cannot know if they will kill the living things and the

exposure is to face this uncertainty.

You could also use plastic earthworms and other toy living bugs. Another

approach that has worked well with us is the paradoxical one where you joke

respectfully about turning the house into an animal sanctuary with pets

from floor to ceiling in every room until the humans have to leave or be

starved out and die.

The anger at the therapist is a good sign that the therapy is working. I

hope your son can keep it up because he is on the way to recovery. Good

luck, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

P.S. Taking animals to the humane society is participating in the OCD.

The exposure would be to limit the number of animals to be rescued and keep

that number declining. Doing these kinds of exposure with our kids is hard

as it pushes our own buttons. We have learned that we have to do things

that are contrary/distasteful to ensure Steve gets the exposure he needs. K.

At 09:04 PM 03/30/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>Interesting. My son has similar inclinations, but because he is 14 he

>has them under a bit better control. He is very angry with his

>therapist at the moment because at his session today they discussed his

>fear of walking outside when it is wet lest he step on an earthworm. So

>she suggested bringing in earthworms and they would step on them

>together! Clearly she thought it was a contamination phobia and didn't

>know where he was coming from. His dad brought him, so I couldnt set

>her straight.

>

>I wonder what it will be like when Dan has his own house--I think his

>concern for the well being of the animals will keep him from having too

>many (I hope).

>

>I have no suggestions except to make sure she thinks first of the

>welfare of the animals (no letting the neighbors pets out of the yard,

>for example.)

>

>Judy

>

>Jay7138658@... wrote:

>>

>> I need some help from those on the list who are more experienced and

>> well

>> versed in dealing with obsessions. Well, I am not sure if it is an

>> obsession

>> or compulsion, or comes from one of her other disorders, but here is

>> my

>> problem.

>>

>> My daughter (age 11) rescues animals. Any animal, any where. Loose

>> dogs,

>> loose cats, animals that neighbors don't want, wild animals (last week

>> it was

>> a muskrat, putting her in danger of rabies, fleas, and who knows what

>> else).

>> I have gotten quite angry about the weekly arrival of new animals. We

>> live

>> in a small house with two dogs, a cat, fish, a frog, a hermit crab, a

>> turtle,

>> and there is no more room! I resent having to take animals to the

>> humane

>> shelter every week. They must think I am nuts too, showing up every

>> week

>> with another animal to dump. I love animals and I hate being forced

>> to do

>> this. I hate being the " bad guy " when the animal obviously needs

>> help, but I

>> just can't take any more animals! The wild ones I take to the

>> reservoir, the

>> domestic ones to the humane shelter. If there are no animals around

>> to be

>> rescued, she lets the neighbor's animals out of the yard and declares

>> she

>> found them running loose and has to " care " for them til someone comes

>> home.

>> If all else fails, she goes in the backyard and digs up bugs and puts

>> them in

>> containers, hundreds and hundreds of bugs (the type depends on the

>> season).

>> Wasps, pill bugs, spiders, grasshoppers, leafhoppers, assassin bugs,

>> beetles,

>> ants are among some of the bugs she has. She also has a slug

>> collection (she

>> feeds them potato peelings) and worms. Heaven forbid that any of the

>> bugs

>> die, then it's major hysterics. I Need Help!

>>

>> How do I deal correctly with this obsession to acquire animals? How

>> do I not

>> enable it? How do I help her " boss " it? I can't make her turn the

>> animals

>> loose, that's cruel to the animals. Any ideas on how to stop this

>> relentless

>> parade of animals would be welcome. I don't need any more cats, dogs,

>>

>> muskrats, squirrels, mice, rats, etc. etc. etc.

>> Can you tell I am frustrated?

>> Jay in Colorado

>

March 31, 2000

Judy wrote:

>Interesting. My son has similar inclinations, but because he is 14 he has

>them under a bit better control. He is very angry with his

>therapist at the moment because at his session today they discussed his

>fear of walking outside when it is wet lest he step on an earthworm. So

>she suggested bringing in earthworms and they would step on them together!

>Clearly she thought it was a contamination phobia and didn't know where he

>was coming from. His dad brought him, so I couldnt set her straight.

Adi, now 14, had the same issues last spring. she was terrified to walk to

school because she was positive she would step on an earthworm. If she did

make it to school, she would keep checking the bottom of her shoes to make

sure they were clean. Adi works on a peer support system that she created.

When they heard about hte earth worm thing - they flooded her with exposure:

Earth Worm Jim, gummy worms, a band called the Worms, worm post cards and

plastic worms in her locker!! Their creativety was endless!

A few weeks of this and she was definatly less anxious and not checking her

shoes. By the end of the summer, this obsession was just another joke

between everyone.

Jay, The hoarding of animals is another issue. any hoarding needs to be

addressed. If she has this need to collect so strongly that she would put

animals at risk, then its up to her therapist (aka dad?) to set her

limitations with her, like with any other bt. I would explain that she can't

have wild animals because safety comes before anything. Maybe she can

volunteer at a wild animal shelter? We have a couple of versions here...

where she can develop better animal care skills. Perhaps distracting her

collecting by giving her a camera and suggesting that she take pictures

instead? Of course you're going to have to limit the film or she'll be

filling the house in no time!! She truly believes that she must SAVE these

animals, but she has to understand that she cant. If the humane society

knows you so well, I'm sure they can come up with a plan! Jim is the kind

of hoarding on the list, I'm sure he'll have some reasonable suggestions.

take care, wendy

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

March 31, 2000

Jay, I got such a giggle out of your post although I *know* it's not funny .

.. . my daughter has gone through collecting compulsions too, trash and the

bugs and the grieving that goes along with their deaths. But collecting

live animals is a new one on me.

There are much better E & RP designers on this list than I am and I hope you

will hear from them as well. My first thought is you are pretty involved in

this compulsion, allowing it and dealing with the animals by taking them to

the shelter or resevoir.

If my daughter were doing this I would start by setting limits, for ex.

maybe she could continue to " collect " domestic animals and bugs for the time

being but no wild animals. Then maybe you could encourage her to drop

another " category " of creature and so on until this compulsion is

diminished. You might also work on limiting numbers of animals, such as

only one per week, etc. and/or releasing current bug collections if this is

out of hand as well. The eventual goal will be keeping a reasonable number

and type of pets, but no more. You may have to " boss back " your own

concern for animals who seem to be in need of help to help your daughter

minimize this compulsion.

Kathy R. in Indiana

Re: I Need Some Advice!

> I need some help from those on the list who are more experienced and well

> versed in dealing with obsessions. Well, I am not sure if it is an

obsession

> or compulsion, or comes from one of her other disorders, but here is my

> problem.

>

> My daughter (age 11) rescues animals. Any animal, any where. Loose dogs,

> loose cats, animals that neighbors don't want, wild animals (last week it

was

> a muskrat, putting her in danger of rabies, fleas, and who knows what

else).

> I have gotten quite angry about the weekly arrival of new animals. We

live

> in a small house with two dogs, a cat, fish, a frog, a hermit crab, a

turtle,

> and there is no more room! I resent having to take animals to the humane

> shelter every week. They must think I am nuts too, showing up every week

> with another animal to dump. I love animals and I hate being forced to do

> this. I hate being the " bad guy " when the animal obviously needs help,

but I

> just can't take any more animals! The wild ones I take to the reservoir,

the

> domestic ones to the humane shelter. If there are no animals around to be

> rescued, she lets the neighbor's animals out of the yard and declares she

> found them running loose and has to " care " for them til someone comes

home.

> If all else fails, she goes in the backyard and digs up bugs and puts them

in

> containers, hundreds and hundreds of bugs (the type depends on the

season).

> Wasps, pill bugs, spiders, grasshoppers, leafhoppers, assassin bugs,

beetles,

> ants are among some of the bugs she has. She also has a slug collection

(she

> feeds them potato peelings) and worms. Heaven forbid that any of the bugs

> die, then it's major hysterics. I Need Help!

>

> How do I deal correctly with this obsession to acquire animals? How do I

not

> enable it? How do I help her " boss " it? I can't make her turn the

animals

> loose, that's cruel to the animals. Any ideas on how to stop this

relentless

> parade of animals would be welcome. I don't need any more cats, dogs,

> muskrats, squirrels, mice, rats, etc. etc. etc.

> Can you tell I am frustrated?

> Jay in Colorado

March 31, 2000

In a message dated 3/31/00 12:53:35 PM Mountain Standard Time,

wb4@... writes:

<< She truly believes that she must SAVE these

animals, but she has to understand that she cant. If the humane society

knows you so well, I'm sure they can come up with a plan! Jim is the kind

of hoarding on the list, I'm sure he'll have some reasonable suggestions.

take care, wendy

______________________________________________________ >>

You hit the nail on the head, . She believes she must save these

animals. I have talked to the kennel/vet/groomer we use and he said they

could use her as a volunteer when she turns 12 (in a month). I am also

looking at volunteering at the horse protection society which rescues abused

and injured horses, they always need help. I will check into some wildlife

protection agencies too. There is a lady here who rescues injured birds, and

one for raptors, etc. etc. See, now you have given me some ideas..... I

just have these fears that her hoarding animals will turn her into one of

those little old ladies with 50 cats.

Thanks for your help.

Jay in Colorado

March 31, 2000

In a message dated 3/31/00 7:18:32 AM Mountain Standard Time,

klr@... writes:

<< The eventual goal will be keeping a reasonable number

and type of pets, but no more. You may have to " boss back " your own

concern for animals who seem to be in need of help to help your daughter

minimize this compulsion. >>

Kathy R.

You are so right. I had some of the same tendencies as a child but not to

this extreme. So, maybe its something we BOTH have to work on! Thanks for

the help.

Jay in Colo.

March 31, 2000

Jay,

I remember seeing the different " lists " for OCD support, like Christians w/OCD,

gays w/OCD, teens w/OCD etc., and I

remember one about people w/OCD who " collect " pets. It was considered a kind of

hoarding. I remember reading

something else on some OCD site that was about the real deal concerning those

elderly ladies with a million cats -

it's a kind of hoarding compulsion. I wonder if that's what's going on here?

Dana in NC

March 31, 2000

a K will be publishing the OCD Mini-List Directory over the

weekend. I do know there are ones for cats andfor dogs. Also,

believe that Drs. Steketee and Frost are just starting some research

about those who hoard animals.

jim in san diego

jjmcf@...

March 31, 2000

HI Jay:

What you are describing sounds to me from a distance like

hyperresponsibility OCD rather than hoarding. The distinction may not be

that important, but hoarding is generally viewed as a more intractable

symptom of OCD.

So your daughter might be thinking something terrible will happen to the

animals and it is all up to her to make the difference. If she is more

concerned about hoarding she would get very upset when you take her strays

and give them to the shelter. If what is going on is more

hyperresponsibility she will feel temporary reduction in anxiety when you

give the animals to a safe place to be taken care of. To figure out what

is happening you have to watch for when her anxiety really spikes and

deduce from that what might be going on.

Also watching to see how she responds to your various interventions (read

E & RP) will give you good information if you are on the right track.

Sometimes we have to be like detectives to figure out what is going on,

particularly when they don't want to share or communicate because they do

not want us designing an intervention. These work best when we explain

ahead of time - the cognitive stuff was recommending - what will

happen and why. That can help to give you a clue that what you are

planning is on the right track if your daughter gets upset/uncomfortable

when you discuss it - it is a kind of imaginal exposure. WHen Steve was

very ill just reading an OCD book, like Brainlock, to him would get him

stuck in complex tapping rituals.

The important thing they have to learn is that this is OCD sending them

error messages. It is a skill in itself to help kids who have limited

insight into their own OCD. Sometimes explaining how OCD likes to play

mean and interfere in the things we love and make them into things that

cause us anxiety, so loving animals becomes a burden and source of fear and

anxiety instead of the pleasure we usually get from being around animal

companions.

I hope these ideas are helpful, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

" shadow syndrome " hoarder in recovery.

At 03:24 PM 03/31/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>In a message dated 3/31/00 12:53:35 PM Mountain Standard Time,

>wb4@... writes:

>

><< She truly believes that she must SAVE these

> animals, but she has to understand that she cant. If the humane society

> knows you so well, I'm sure they can come up with a plan! Jim is the kind

> of hoarding on the list, I'm sure he'll have some reasonable suggestions.

>

> take care, wendy

> ______________________________________________________ >>

>You hit the nail on the head, . She believes she must save these

>animals. I have talked to the kennel/vet/groomer we use and he said they

>could use her as a volunteer when she turns 12 (in a month). I am also

>looking at volunteering at the horse protection society which rescues abused

>and injured horses, they always need help. I will check into some wildlife

>protection agencies too. There is a lady here who rescues injured birds,

and

>one for raptors, etc. etc. See, now you have given me some ideas..... I

>just have these fears that her hoarding animals will turn her into one of

>those little old ladies with 50 cats.

>Thanks for your help.

>Jay in Colorado

August 7, 2008

----- Original Message -----

From:

I am doing DMSA + ALA and since we added DMSA, has been

having symptoms of peripheral neuropathy, mainly pains in his legs,

knees and feet. I need to know what to do to help him, help this

pain to go away!

===>,

Did you try the B6?

I am wondering if the pain will go away on its own and then we can

start again or if we need to just do a lead protocol and just get the

metals out that are causing the pain. I do have reason to believe

there is lead. Please also see the hair test I posted yesterday,

doesn't meet the counting rules for mercury.

====>Ours has never met the counting rules, either but she had plenty of

mercury. The peripheral neuropathy is a positive sign for mercury toxicity. I'm

thinking the E and EFA's will take awhile to kick in but you could try the B6

with every dose.

Titre du document / Document title

A comparison of different lead biomarkers in their associations with

lead-related symptoms

Auteur(s) / Author(s)

LEE B.-K. (1) ; AHN K.-D. (1) ; LEE S.-S. (1) ; LEE G.-S. (1) ; KIM

Y.-B. (1) ; SCHWARTZ B. S. (2) ;

Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)

(1) Institute of Industrial Medicine, Soonchunhyang University, 23-20

Bongmyung-Dong, Chonan, Choongnam 330-100, COREE, REPUBLIQUE DE

(2) Department of Environmental Health Sciences, Division of

Occupational and Environmental Health, s Hopkins University

School of Hygiene and Public Health, Baltimore, ETATS-UNIS

R¨¦sum¨¦ / Abstract

Objectives: To evaluate whether dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA) -

chelatable lead, an estimate of current bioavailable lead stores, is

a better predictor of lead-related symptoms than are other commonly

used lead biomarkers. Methods: A total of 95 male lead workers from

three lead industries (one secondary lead smelting facility, one

polyvinyl chloride-stabilizer manufacturing plant, and one lead-acid

storage battery factory), and 13 workers without occupational lead

exposure recruited from an occupational health institute, were

studied. Blood lead, blood zinc protoporphyrin (ZPP), 4 h DMSA-

chelatable lead (after oral administration of 10 mg/kg DMSA), urine

lead, and urinary ¦Ä-aminolevulinic acid levels were evaluated as

predictors of 15 lead-related symptoms, assessed by self-administered

questionnaire, with linear and logistic regression controlling for

covariates. Total symptoms and symptoms in three categories

(gastrointestinal, neuromuscular, and general) were evaluated.

Results: The mean (SD) 4 h DMSA-chelatable lead level was 288.7

(167.7) ¦Ìg, with a range from 32.4 to 789 ¦Ìg in the 95 lead workers.

The mean (SD) in the non-exposed subjects was 23.7 (11.5) ¦Ìg with a

range from 10.5 to 43.5 ¦Ìg. Blood lead, blood ZPP, and spot urine

lead levels ranged from 21.4 to 78.4 ¦Ìg/dl. 40 to 331 ¦Ìg/l, and 7.5

to 153.0 ¦Ìg/l. respectively, in the lead workers, and from 4.0 to 7.2

¦Ìg/dl, 27 to 52 ¦Ìg/l, and 2.9 to 15.5 ¦Ìg/l in the non-exposed

controls, respectively. The overall mean symptom score (SD), derived

as the sum of 0 or l point for absence or presence of 15 symptoms, of

the lead workers was 3.7 (2.0), compared to 1.2 (1.5) for the non-

exposed workers. DMSA-chelatable lead was the best predictor of

symptom scores in both crude and adjusted analyses, compared with the

other biomarkers. Lead workers with DMSA-chelatable lead values

greater than the median (260.5 ¦Ìg) were 6.2 times more likely to have

frequent tingling or numbness of the arms or legs and 3.3 times more

likely to have muscle pain than subjects with lower chelatable lead

values. Three symptoms (tingling or numbness of arm or leg, muscle

pain, and feeling irritation at the slightest disturbance) evidenced

a dose-dependent relationship with DMSA-chelatable lead levels.

Conclusions: DMSA-chelatable lead was found to be the best predictor

of lead-related symptoms, particularly of both total symptom scores

and neuromuscular symptoms, than were the other other lead

biomarkers.

Revue / Journal Title

International archives of occupational and environmental health

ISSN 0340-0131 CODEN IAEHDW

Source / Source

2000, vol. 73, no5, pp. 298-304 (29 ref.)

August 7, 2008

My child, who tested as mercury toxic, was having

this problem but it has cleared up with B-12 shots.

I had previously been giving fairly high dose oral MB-12,

but she was still complaining of pain, especially at night.

I was a bit worried about giving the shots as AC has

mentioned that not all benefit, and there are reports of

kids getting worse from them, but for my dd, the shots

yielded clear improvements; most positively, from my

perspective, her leg and arm pains have disappeared.

She has been getting one shot per three days. Our DAN

prescribed the B-12 specifically for this problem. I was

skeptical it would help. I was wrong. It has helped.

Good luck finding the solution to your son's pains.

Sue

> ----- Original Message -----

> From:

>

> I am doing DMSA + ALA and since we added DMSA, has been

> having symptoms of peripheral neuropathy, mainly pains in his legs,

> knees and feet. I need to know what to do to help him, help this

> pain to go away!

>

> ===>,

>

> Did you try the B6?

>

> I am wondering if the pain will go away on its own and then we can

> start again or if we need to just do a lead protocol and just get the

> metals out that are causing the pain. I do have reason to believe

> there is lead. Please also see the hair test I posted yesterday,

> doesn't meet the counting rules for mercury.

>

August 8, 2008

>

> I am doing DMSA + ALA and since we added DMSA, has been

> having symptoms of peripheral neuropathy, mainly pains in his

legs,

> knees and feet. I need to know what to do to help him, help this

> pain to go away!

>

When my feet and ankles are driving me nuts, I take a liquid b

complex with extra b-12 -- a fair amount of it. If that doesn't

resolve it within a few minutes, I then take iron (iron glycinate is

what I am currently using). Many years ago I read an article that

indicated that " restless leg syndrome " could be treated with b

vitamins and iron. I was pretty anemic my whole life, far more than

I realized. With treating my foot issues daily and keeping them

under control, my anemia is finally under control.

Here lately, sometimes my feet don't stop bothering me until I get

enough calcium.

Good luck.

Michele

http://www.healthgazelle.org

http://www.kidslikemine.org

August 8, 2008

DMSA is very effective for lead, in fact approved for lead poisoning in the USA.

Barb

[ ] I need some advice!

I am doing DMSA + ALA and since we added DMSA, has been

having symptoms of peripheral neuropathy, mainly pains in his legs,

knees and feet. I need to know what to do to help him, help this

pain to go away!

I realize the DMSA dose may have been too high because we were doing

an ALA schedule (every 2.5 hours) because that's how does

best with ALA. Andy said to lower the dose and give more Vit E and

Omega 3s. So I did all that and stopped in the middle of our 3rd

round because he was in pain and developed a yeast rash on his bottom

(on day 2).

I am wondering if the pain will go away on its own and then we can

start again or if we need to just do a lead protocol and just get the

metals out that are causing the pain. I do have reason to believe

there is lead. Please also see the hair test I posted yesterday,

doesn't meet the counting rules for mercury.

I found this study that seems applicable to what is going on (posted

below). I'm sure it may be a combination of mercury and lead, but

how do you know what protocol to use? I just need help getting

back on track toward more " comfortable " detox, he is in pain!