Update: Re: Chelation - stuck

[Guest guest]

Dana, I have been giving him one Candidase with each dosage of PRX

and he is also getting emulsified o of o, epicor and probiotics. He

is having bm's at least twice daily and they are normal. He did not

have any accidents last night or this morning since I started dosing

the PRX four times daily. At about 52 pills a day it is an incredible

amount of PRX. I know people give high doses of this stuff, what is

the upper limit? He is only five. Everytime I have tried ALA we get

this terrible condition. I guess he would be starting at a 2 mg

dosage and I can't afford to go through this again.

What other ways can we help the body detox so that maybe we could

eventually someday chelate without this side effect? He had no

accidents since last fall until I started to chelate again.

He is on other supps like Kirkman Childrens Multi-Vitamin and

Mineral, fish oil, CLO etc. As previously stated we dealt with

wetting issues for 18 months and so excited when high dose PRX

resolved it. Believe it or not he is considered NT and doing very

well in school with the exeptions of wetting.

Any other ideas? We are really struggling.

Melinda

> > My daughter who is on the spectrum potty trained much latter than

> > expected even considering her awareness. We were giving anti-

virals

> > and I think it was kickng up bacteria issues and causing wetting

> > accidents. Accidents finally resolved until we added in valtrex.

> > After she was on valtrex awhile and in a less stressful

environment,

> > the accidents stopped. My sons issues are directly related to

> > something medical and start after chelation. I am wondering if we

> > should consider giving him valtrex or if we should steer far away

> > especially considering what we are dealing with.

>

>

> To me, this sounds like there is a yeast issue as well as a bacteria

> issue. Try adding some Candidase, see if that helps.

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

We've been told that wetting is a common symptom of detoxing.

Barb

[ ] Update: Re: Chelation - stuck

Bacteria issues are still not under control for five yr. old son. For

a few days wetting accidents did stop after we increased PRX.

Unfortunately, I backed down too soon and he is now requiring even

more. To make matters worse I ran out of PRX and tried to double up

using Virastop for one dose and it was not effective. Each time

something happens he requires more to get this under control. He was

at 13 capsules three times a day and still having accidents. Starting

tomorrow I am going to try to dose him four times daily which means a

trip to school. He has been consistenly on Azithromycin since 9/12

and has been taking ongoing OLE 1000mg 3 x daily, Emulsified O o O

(Biotics Research A.D.P) 3 x daily, cranberry, twice daily and SPS

three times daily. I have even added in Colon Guard that has garlic

in it and today had him drinking Green Tea.

PRX has been effective with addressing viral issues for many and I

have started wondering if there is a connection between what caused

my daughters wetting accidents and what may be causing my sons.

My daughter who is on the spectrum potty trained much latter than

expected even considering her awareness. We were giving anti-virals

and I think it was kickng up bacteria issues and causing wetting

accidents. Accidents finally resolved until we added in valtrex.

After she was on valtrex awhile and in a less stressful environment,

the accidents stopped. My sons issues are directly related to

something medical and start after chelation. I am wondering if we

should consider giving him valtrex or if we should steer far away

especially considering what we are dealing with.

Thanks for any advice.

Melinda

> > > >

> > > > I am considering forgetting chelation. My 5 yr. old nt son

has

> > mercury

> > > > deranged transport per DDL and high arsenic. We have tried

low

> > dose

> > > > DMSA and DMPS and his skin gets severly blotchy and terrible

> > redness

> > > > around the eyes, probably from yeast. He is able to tolerate

low

> > dose

> > > > ALA. We have always used Cutler protocal. He ended up with

severe

> > > > wetting problems which took us 18 months to resolve!!!! We

> > stopped

> > > > chelating and focused on treating the bacteria problem. Some

of

> > the

> > > > things we tried were high doses of olive leaf extract, oil of

> > oregano,

> > > > cranberry, d- mannose, antibiotics, virastop/prx, and sps.

> > Finally, I

> > > > doubled the PRX to four caps three times a day and the

accidents

> > > > stopped. He has not had any problems since last Fall until

> > recently I

> > > > gave him a few rounds of 5mg of ALA. I started adding back in

> > just some

> > > > of the supps he required to resolve the accidents and added

back

> > in

> > > > some prx, cranberry and ole but it wasn't enough. He is

requiring

> > the

> > > > high doses of PRX and other supporting supps to keep bacteria

> > issues

> > > > under control. I can not keep him on these high doses of PRX

for

> > the

> > > > amount of time it may take to get all of the metals out. I

feel

> > stuck.

> > > > The only solution I can think of is dropping the amount of

ALA to

> > less

> > > > than 5 mgs. Since he can not tolerate much chelator does that

> > mean that

> > > > he is more toxic?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This sounds like it could be partly yeast related and part military strategy.

The best battles are fought one front at a time. With chelation, you find

yourself occasionally battling in so many directions that balancing it all is

like being a general in an army. I found that putting the full focus on one

thing at a time helped, be it upping chelators, fighting yeast, or antivirals.

Our son got like this with the red eyes, we would take a couple week break from

chelation and get the yeast under control.

With our son we used a 2 month rotation of uva ursi, gse, and mct oil, we would

use one product for 2 months then rotate to the next product. Andy told us to

rotate our yeast fighters this way. Our son took yeast fighters 3x a day every

day during chelation and in between. One hour later after these yeast killers

we would give activated charcoal to mop up the die off. Occasionally we would

have to avoid sugar for six weeks to get yeast under control. ALA stirs up yeast

and our son couldn't take it without all of the products in this post. We gave

housons enzymes trio and used epsom salt creme to deal with the phenols. Houston

makes a no phenol product. We gave oreganol in the middle of the night for

bacteria, then ramped up to super strength oreganol. We gave huge 50 billion

doses of custom probiotics 3x a day after meals. We gave candex or candidaise

away from food and supplements. You can up doses of that to more than 1 cap. Our

son was 16, but little kids can ramp up yeast fighters also.

Personally, we chelated while doing an antiviral protocol, but we had to have

his yeast in control first to do that. I don't think you can very easily do

antivirals, yeast fighters with an out of control yeast problem, and chelate at

the same time. I think that in our case, we began chelating with dmsa and things

went great, added ala a month later and all yeast broke loose, then we got yeast

WAY under control with diet and yeast fighters, then we did the antiviral

protocol. We might have chelated every other weekend instead of every weekend

while doing antivirals, and backed off of the yeast protocol by eliminating

sugar, because doing all three was too much for our son. I think that if I had

out of control yeast while doing antivirals, I would temporarily stop chelating

or lower the dose. It's almost like you can fight a battle on two fronts but

fighting a battle on three fronts at one time, is just about more than a person

can take. My son's diet was very bad though, so this might have made our fight

so difficult. I almost think I would do antivirals alone on a child before

beginning chelation next time. That way you could fight yeast and chelate at the

same time without dealing with all three at once. Once you are chelating,

fighting yeast, and doing antivirals at the same time and are up to 13 caps a

day, you are committed to the antivirals, so I would continue it out until the

end of the course. I just basically think that you could ramp up your yeast

protocol and lower doses of chelators and spread out to eleven days apart or

even three weeks apart to make it more comfortable for your son.

We used homeopathic Cantharis 30c, 3x a day away from foods for bacteria in the

urinary tract. Uva Ursi is a yeast fighter that also works on bacteria in the

urinary tract, so I would use this as my yeast fighter of choice first. My son

did great on Uva Ursi, it was our favorite yeast fighter for him.

chlorophyll helped with my son's bacteria problem when nothing else seemed to

phase it.

I am not familiar with PRX and epicor, what are those? I looked them up. Epicor

is dried yeast. A yeast based product for a yeasty kid might be why you are

having such a problem with the red eyes and the yeast. This would be my first

suspect as the problem supplement.

PRX looks like great. I noticed when we did our high dose antivirals that it is

not as high a dose of serrapepdidase and nattokinaise as you could get.

Enzymedica makes a serra plus with extremely high doses of serrapepdidaise and a

nattok product with higher doses of nattokinaise.

I know it is killer financially to keep ramping up, but my children ramped up to

20 virastop a day at the height of the antiviral protocol. I always wondered if

switching to the higher content enzymes and using serra plus and natto k would

save money? Serraplus has three times the serrapepdidase in one cap, and natto k

has two and half times as much nattokinaise in one cap. I was comparing to

virastop, not prx. It might save money to switch from PRX to enzymes that

contain more ingredients. You could contact the company and ask if they offer

discounts for high dose antiviral protocol users. The only ingredient that would

be missing using the two separate products with the higher doses would be the

catolase. I don't know if that is important in the antiviral process.

The other thing is you could is do an IGE food tests on your son to see what

foods he was allergic to. They are not 100% accurate but they are a nice

guide.The SCD diet is supposed to be great for bacteria, primarily because there

is no grain eaten at all (grain feeds bacteria). There is a book about the diet

called " Breaking the Vicious Cycle " by Elaine Gottschall.The reason I recommend

getting the food test done before using the SCD if you are going to try it is

because we put our daughter on the SCD without knowing she was extremely

allergic to honey, almond, and egg. They were her worst allergens so her immune

system began an autoimmune response of attacking itself in a major way while

onthe SCD diet of only her most allergic foods. If you are sure your child is

not allergic to the few foods on that diet, in my opinion the SCD diet could be

an answer to go on temporarily for killing off bacteria. Elaine has figured out

a way to starve bacteria in the most beautiful way through not eating any foods

that feed bacteria.

Bacteria was our hardest thing to kill, yeast, chelation, and antivirals were

cake compared to bacteria. My son didn't go on the SCD. My son still smells like

bacteria after chelation, to tell you, but he is 19 and he won't take any more

pills or go grain free.

You can up doses of candidaise to two caps.

If at any time your child develops stomach pain while on major doses of

proteolytic enzymes, back off or stop completely. I stopped my daughters eye

inflammation in part by giving major amounts of virastop, nattok, and serra

plus, but she ended up getting an ulcer which her naturopath believes may have

been caused by so many proteolytic enzymes. She was doing the high dose

antivirals plus candex, plus natto k, plus serra plus though.