Re: Chelating with Seizures - Andy

[Guest guest]

Andy,

Thank you for your comments. I actually have your " Amalgam Illness "

book, and am glad I found it. Also, this question of whether or not

to medicate our son for his seizures is a huge question around

here, and I appreciate your opinion.

Would you be able to please forward any links or provide names of

studies or books that share your opinion that unmedicated

(particularly absence) seizures cause irreverisible, permanment, and

lasting brain damage? That's a very scary statement, and it

contradicts what I have read in a book called " Epilepsy Patient and

Family Guide, 2nd Edition " by Orrin Devinsky, MD.

Page 6, under the heading: 'Seizures Do Not Cause Brain Damage,' he

goes into more detail.

We have also taken our son to 3 neurologists, and have asked one of

them point blank if not medicating our son would cause brain damage,

and his answer was no. He was the second neurologist to see our

son. He prescribed Ethosuximide. (Zarontin)

The first neurologist was against medicating my son at such a young

age, unless the seizures became problematic.

The most recent neurologist (3rd one) discussed medications, but she

also calmed my fears that a developmental pediatrician said his type

of seizures unmedicated could go into status epilepticus. She said

if they start to get worse, ie, his chin starts to hit the table,

call me. Or, call when/if you decide to medicate. In no way seemed

alarmed that at this time we don't want to medicate.

So, in all this, none of them has said that they would cause brain

damage. Of course, always having my son's best interest at heart, I

would be really interested to see what you could provide to the

contrary.

I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no

guarantee of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have to

suffer the side effects, the ones we can see and hear about such as:

sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea, to

name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use causing

liver and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-seizure

meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

reading that there have not been studies on the long term effects of

absence anti-seizure meds on children.

It's just a tough, tough call to make. The way I see it, chelation

could be beneficial, but risky. Anti-seizure meds could be both,

also. We don't like seeing him have these seizures. It's very

hard on us. Not to mention how they probably make him feel, and

function. We realize we may have to go down that road, as much as

we hate to, of medicating him, in the HOPE that the medication will

stop them. Again, I am aware that it may not, after stressful

months of trying different ones.

Another point on chelation while on meds is that some, if not all,

deplete certain minerals. That could be very difficult having meds

and chelation agent depleting minerals. Could the chelation

interfere in some way with the meds, too? Or vice versa? How would

we know which is med reaction or chelation reaction? These are also

some obstacles I have with regard to the meds, to starting them

prior to chelation.

Again, I appreciate your comments, and I take them to heart.

Kind regards,

Cyn

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > I hope everything starts working out for you guys. I am late to

> > jump in here, as I just joined, but it seems from your

observation

> > that chelating with ALA made your sons Absence seizures worse?

> >

> > I suppose this is my introduction. I have a 4 year old son who

has

> > been having Absence seizures for more than two years now, and

have

> > tried a lot of things, but so far the Specific Carbohydrate Diet

and

> > epsom salt baths have helped the most. Those and prune juice,

simple

> > as it sounds, for regularity. We have yet to medicate, trying

to

> > heal instead.

>

> I believe this is a very serious error and not in the child's best

interest. I think you should

> try the medications and decide after that whether to continue them.

>

> Uncontrolled seizures cause permanent lasting irreversible brain

damage. There is a good

> reason the MD world is pretty focussed on getting them controlled.

>

> I know people whose parents didn't control their absence seizures

as children and it

> ruined their lives.

>

> > Plus, really uncomfortable with the med choices

> > available for seizures.

>

> The realistic choices for absence are Zarontin, Depakote and

Lamictal. Zarontin is the

> safest but seldom offered by the neuros since it is a very old

med. BTW, the brand name

> and generic are NOT equivalent for Zarontin, so if you try it,

pick one or the other and

> stick with it. If you try generic and it doesn't work, try brand

name before giving up on it.

>

> > We will most likely pursue chelation,

>

> *I* strongly suggest you try medications first!

>

> > if the next doctor we are

> > going to see in a couple months confirms, and the trust is

there.

> > (I feel like I am running out of doctors, at least locally, to

> > trust. It's a horrible feeling.)

>

> Yes, it is difficult. It's a lot easier to take once you start

viewing them as service providers

> - body mechanics, sorta like car mechanics, but a lot more

expensive.

>

> > He has tested high previously for mercury and arsenic. I had a

huge

> > maternal load, everything from amalgams to Rhogham to flu shot.

The

> > chemical toxin onslaught continued for him, unknowingly of

course,

> > most especially his first year. He also has low tone, which

affects

> > his articulation and motor processing.

> >

> > I have read that chelation can bring on seizures. What I

haven't

> > read too much about is if chelation can eliminate seizures.

>

> Yes. In the long term.

>

> In the short term you need the meds on board to chelate.

>

> > Or, will it make his worse??

>

> If you aren't medicating him and do chelate, which I STRONGLY

discourage, it probably will

> do this in the short term.

>

> > That is a very scary thought, too.

> >

> > Also, what about using Castor Oil packs as Edgar Cayce (the

sleeping

> > psychic) suggested to people with epilepsy? Has anyone had any

> > success using them?? I keep thinking I want to do them with my

son,

> > but get conflicting reports on safety on children. I also

recently

> > learned that they may " shift things around " and cause more

probs.

> > My son gets his seizures throughout the day.

>

> Medicate first. Like right now. Work on the other stuff later and

if you're lucky he won't

> need so much medication.

>

> > Good luck, and if anyone can shed any light, I am listening, and

> > reading!

> >

> > Cyn

>

> What I've found is that in some areas nutritional supplements,

diet, etc. are far, far

> superior to Rx meds. In others the Rx meds are by far the best.

>

> Epilepsy is an area where usually the Rx meds are the only

realistic choice and the only

> thing that is going to work.

>

> Andy

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Andy,

>

> Thank you for your comments. I actually have your " Amalgam Illness "

> book, and am glad I found it. Also, this question of whether or not

> to medicate our son for his seizures is a huge question around

> here, and I appreciate your opinion.

>

> Would you be able to please forward any links or provide names of

> studies or books that share your opinion that unmedicated

> (particularly absence) seizures cause irreverisible, permanment, and

> lasting brain damage?

All standard neurology textbooks and probably some more general textbooks as

wel.

This is not new, even 2,500 years ago, Hippocates said " seizures beget

seizures. " As

epileptics remain unmedicated and continue to have more seizures, their brains

get used

to doing this, seizure frequency often increases, and they become progressively

more

difficult to control with medication.

> That's a very scary statement, and it

> contradicts what I have read in a book called " Epilepsy Patient and

> Family Guide, 2nd Edition " by Orrin Devinsky, MD.

> Page 6, under the heading: 'Seizures Do Not Cause Brain Damage,' he

> goes into more detail.

>

> We have also taken our son to 3 neurologists, and have asked one of

> them point blank if not medicating our son would cause brain damage,

> and his answer was no. He was the second neurologist to see our

> son. He prescribed Ethosuximide. (Zarontin)

Why not go fill the Rx and give it a try?

How can you rationally decide whether to medicate him or not without at least

giving it a

try?

> The first neurologist was against medicating my son at such a young

> age, unless the seizures became problematic.

>

> The most recent neurologist (3rd one) discussed medications, but she

> also calmed my fears that a developmental pediatrician said his type

> of seizures unmedicated could go into status epilepticus. She said

> if they start to get worse, ie, his chin starts to hit the table,

> call me. Or, call when/if you decide to medicate. In no way seemed

> alarmed that at this time we don't want to medicate.

>

> So, in all this, none of them has said that they would cause brain

> damage. Of course, always having my son's best interest at heart, I

> would be really interested to see what you could provide to the

> contrary.

>

> I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

> medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no

> guarantee of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have to

> suffer the side effects, the ones we can see and hear about such as:

> sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea, to

> name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use causing

> liver and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

> group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-seizure

> meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

> reading that there have not been studies on the long term effects of

> absence anti-seizure meds on children.

There haven't been studies of the long term effects of most thing on most groups

of

people. However since these meds are typically taken for long periods of time,

and

absence has onset in childhood, there is an enormous amount of experience with

using

these medications in children. Studies are no real substitute for experience.

> It's just a tough, tough call to make. The way I see it, chelation

> could be beneficial, but risky. Anti-seizure meds could be both,

> also. We don't like seeing him have these seizures. It's very

> hard on us. Not to mention how they probably make him feel, and

> function. We realize we may have to go down that road, as much as

> we hate to, of medicating him, in the HOPE that the medication will

> stop them. Again, I am aware that it may not, after stressful

> months of trying different ones.

Why not try them? Then you'll know if they are going to work or not and won't

have to

wonder about that. If they don't work you can always stop them. If the side

effects are

intolerable you can always stop them.

> Another point on chelation while on meds is that some, if not all,

> deplete certain minerals.

Chelating properly does not deplete any minerals.

> That could be very difficult having meds

> and chelation agent depleting minerals. Could the chelation

> interfere in some way with the meds, too?

No.

> Or vice versa?

No.

> How would

> we know which is med reaction or chelation reaction?

By introducing the meds and chelation at separate times.

>These are also

> some obstacles I have with regard to the meds, to starting them

> prior to chelation.

>

> Again, I appreciate your comments, and I take them to heart.

>

> Kind regards,

> Cyn

[Guest guest]

I respect Andy's suggestions. Unfortunately this did not help my daughter.

We tried meds with my daughter and they only made her seizures worse.

I am now sorry that this was our first choice. We have dealt with

Tonic Clonic seizures.

What has been working for us lately is nutritional changes, vitamin

and mineral support, and Neurofeedback. I can't remember the age of

your child, but neurofeedback has helped many eliminate absence

seizures, and improve cognitive functioning. It is by far had the most

positive improvement for my daughter. It is known to stabilize the

brain, and stop the kindling factor that Andy spoke of.

She is med free.

Her grades are improving (not like when on meds)and her overall sense

of self is much more positive. No weight gain, no skin breakouts, no

brain fog, no memory lapses, no dental worries, etc.

Vitamins and minerals have also played a huge role. I can see a

clearer picture of what health is suppose to look like, rather than it

being confused with side effects from the meds. What was med related

and what was seizure related. Very confusing for a novice. The doctors

are simply not there to hold your hand.

We had two years of HELL on meds.

I am glad that it works for some.

> > >

> > > Hi ,

> > >

> > > I hope everything starts working out for you guys. I am late to

> > > jump in here, as I just joined, but it seems from your

> observation

> > > that chelating with ALA made your sons Absence seizures worse?

> > >

> > > I suppose this is my introduction. I have a 4 year old son who

> has

> > > been having Absence seizures for more than two years now, and

> have

> > > tried a lot of things, but so far the Specific Carbohydrate Diet

> and

> > > epsom salt baths have helped the most. Those and prune juice,

> simple

> > > as it sounds, for regularity. We have yet to medicate, trying

> to

> > > heal instead.

> >

> > I believe this is a very serious error and not in the child's best

> interest. I think you should

> > try the medications and decide after that whether to continue them.

> >

> > Uncontrolled seizures cause permanent lasting irreversible brain

> damage. There is a good

> > reason the MD world is pretty focussed on getting them controlled.

> >

> > I know people whose parents didn't control their absence seizures

> as children and it

> > ruined their lives.

> >

> > > Plus, really uncomfortable with the med choices

> > > available for seizures.

> >

> > The realistic choices for absence are Zarontin, Depakote and

> Lamictal. Zarontin is the

> > safest but seldom offered by the neuros since it is a very old

> med. BTW, the brand name

> > and generic are NOT equivalent for Zarontin, so if you try it,

> pick one or the other and

> > stick with it. If you try generic and it doesn't work, try brand

> name before giving up on it.

> >

> > > We will most likely pursue chelation,

> >

> > *I* strongly suggest you try medications first!

> >

> > > if the next doctor we are

> > > going to see in a couple months confirms, and the trust is

> there.

> > > (I feel like I am running out of doctors, at least locally, to

> > > trust. It's a horrible feeling.)

> >

> > Yes, it is difficult. It's a lot easier to take once you start

> viewing them as service providers

> > - body mechanics, sorta like car mechanics, but a lot more

> expensive.

> >

> > > He has tested high previously for mercury and arsenic. I had a

> huge

> > > maternal load, everything from amalgams to Rhogham to flu shot.

> The

> > > chemical toxin onslaught continued for him, unknowingly of

> course,

> > > most especially his first year. He also has low tone, which

> affects

> > > his articulation and motor processing.

> > >

> > > I have read that chelation can bring on seizures. What I

> haven't

> > > read too much about is if chelation can eliminate seizures.

> >

> > Yes. In the long term.

> >

> > In the short term you need the meds on board to chelate.

> >

> > > Or, will it make his worse??

> >

> > If you aren't medicating him and do chelate, which I STRONGLY

> discourage, it probably will

> > do this in the short term.

> >

> > > That is a very scary thought, too.

> > >

> > > Also, what about using Castor Oil packs as Edgar Cayce (the

> sleeping

> > > psychic) suggested to people with epilepsy? Has anyone had any

> > > success using them?? I keep thinking I want to do them with my

> son,

> > > but get conflicting reports on safety on children. I also

> recently

> > > learned that they may " shift things around " and cause more

> probs.

> > > My son gets his seizures throughout the day.

> >

> > Medicate first. Like right now. Work on the other stuff later and

> if you're lucky he won't

> > need so much medication.

> >

> > > Good luck, and if anyone can shed any light, I am listening, and

> > > reading!

> > >

> > > Cyn

> >

> > What I've found is that in some areas nutritional supplements,

> diet, etc. are far, far

> > superior to Rx meds. In others the Rx meds are by far the best.

> >

> > Epilepsy is an area where usually the Rx meds are the only

> realistic choice and the only

> > thing that is going to work.

> >

> > Andy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

We have been dealing with seizures for nearly all my son's (5 yr old) life. He

was diagnosed with partial type seizures.When we tried trileptal his seizures

increased.  when we tried zonegran he began having drops (head and full

body) And I am sure the zonegran caused the drops.  It has been 2.5 yrs since we

stopped zonegran and he has not had one. He was off meds for the last yr or so. 

When he began school he got sick often and the viruses must have triggered the

seizures again.  He had a very big one at school and I freaked.  I did a lot of

research and found lamictal to be the only one I would try.  I hate having to

put my son on any AED.  they are all poison and I believe they can cause many

serious adverse effects.  However, this is the first time the drug is working

for my son and I have to at least try to prevent another big one like I saw.  I

thought I lost him that day.

 

Honestly, I really don;t think neuros know much about seizures in general. Some

believe in kindling some don't. I have heard that unless a seizure lasts more

than 10 minutes it does not cause harm. Personally, I think they all cause harm

it's just how much. I wish I never gave my son AEds when he was under 2 This is

a critical time for brain development.  If you can hold off until after that age

at least that would be be great. It is a very torturous postion for us parents.

I feel for anyone having to deal with this. We really get no good help from the

professionals.

From: rednews5 <rednews@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Chelating with Seizures - Andy

Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008, 1:35 PM

I respect Andy's suggestions. Unfortunately this did not help my daughter.

We tried meds with my daughter and they only made her seizures worse.

I am now sorry that this was our first choice. We have dealt with

Tonic Clonic seizures.

What has been working for us lately is nutritional changes, vitamin

and mineral support, and Neurofeedback. I can't remember the age of

your child, but neurofeedback has helped many eliminate absence

seizures, and improve cognitive functioning. It is by far had the most

positive improvement for my daughter. It is known to stabilize the

brain, and stop the kindling factor that Andy spoke of.

She is med free.

Her grades are improving (not like when on meds)and her overall sense

of self is much more positive. No weight gain, no skin breakouts, no

brain fog, no memory lapses, no dental worries, etc.

Vitamins and minerals have also played a huge role. I can see a

clearer picture of what health is suppose to look like, rather than it

being confused with side effects from the meds. What was med related

and what was seizure related. Very confusing for a novice. The doctors

are simply not there to hold your hand.

We had two years of HELL on meds.

I am glad that it works for some.

> > >

> > > Hi ,

> > >

> > > I hope everything starts working out for you guys. I am late to

> > > jump in here, as I just joined, but it seems from your

> observation

> > > that chelating with ALA made your sons Absence seizures worse?

> > >

> > > I suppose this is my introduction. I have a 4 year old son who

> has

> > > been having Absence seizures for more than two years now, and

> have

> > > tried a lot of things, but so far the Specific Carbohydrate Diet

> and

> > > epsom salt baths have helped the most. Those and prune juice,

> simple

> > > as it sounds, for regularity. We have yet to medicate, trying

> to

> > > heal instead.

> >

> > I believe this is a very serious error and not in the child's best

> interest. I think you should

> > try the medications and decide after that whether to continue them.

> >

> > Uncontrolled seizures cause permanent lasting irreversible brain

> damage. There is a good

> > reason the MD world is pretty focussed on getting them controlled.

> >

> > I know people whose parents didn't control their absence seizures

> as children and it

> > ruined their lives.

> >

> > > Plus, really uncomfortable with the med choices

> > > available for seizures.

> >

> > The realistic choices for absence are Zarontin, Depakote and

> Lamictal. Zarontin is the

> > safest but seldom offered by the neuros since it is a very old

> med. BTW, the brand name

> > and generic are NOT equivalent for Zarontin, so if you try it,

> pick one or the other and

> > stick with it. If you try generic and it doesn't work, try brand

> name before giving up on it.

> >

> > > We will most likely pursue chelation,

> >

> > *I* strongly suggest you try medications first!

> >

> > > if the next doctor we are

> > > going to see in a couple months confirms, and the trust is

> there.

> > > (I feel like I am running out of doctors, at least locally, to

> > > trust. It's a horrible feeling.)

> >

> > Yes, it is difficult. It's a lot easier to take once you start

> viewing them as service providers

> > - body mechanics, sorta like car mechanics, but a lot more

> expensive.

> >

> > > He has tested high previously for mercury and arsenic. I had a

> huge

> > > maternal load, everything from amalgams to Rhogham to flu shot.

> The

> > > chemical toxin onslaught continued for him, unknowingly of

> course,

> > > most especially his first year. He also has low tone, which

> affects

> > > his articulation and motor processing.

> > >

> > > I have read that chelation can bring on seizures. What I

> haven't

> > > read too much about is if chelation can eliminate seizures.

> >

> > Yes. In the long term.

> >

> > In the short term you need the meds on board to chelate.

> >

> > > Or, will it make his worse??

> >

> > If you aren't medicating him and do chelate, which I STRONGLY

> discourage, it probably will

> > do this in the short term.

> >

> > > That is a very scary thought, too.

> > >

> > > Also, what about using Castor Oil packs as Edgar Cayce (the

> sleeping

> > > psychic) suggested to people with epilepsy? Has anyone had any

> > > success using them?? I keep thinking I want to do them with my

> son,

> > > but get conflicting reports on safety on children. I also

> recently

> > > learned that they may " shift things around " and cause more

> probs.

> > > My son gets his seizures throughout the day.

> >

> > Medicate first. Like right now. Work on the other stuff later and

> if you're lucky he won't

> > need so much medication.

> >

> > > Good luck, and if anyone can shed any light, I am listening, and

> > > reading!

> > >

> > > Cyn

> >

> > What I've found is that in some areas nutritional supplements,

> diet, etc. are far, far

> > superior to Rx meds. In others the Rx meds are by far the best.

> >

> > Epilepsy is an area where usually the Rx meds are the only

> realistic choice and the only

> > thing that is going to work.

> >

> > Andy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Cyn,

Just an adult here with my experience.

I didn't get a diagnosis before I was given an antiseizure med. What

I can tell you is that before I started to take Valproic Acid I

" wasn't there " half the time. When I tried chelation I had to stay in

bed at the end of rounds because my mind went so crazy I couldn't even

trust myself to walk around the house. Because of these things, my

doctor gave me a trial of VA and it was like turning on the lights.

All of a sudden I could focus on paperwork that had been left in piles

because I simply couldn't do it before. With the VA chelation has

been comfortable. I haven't had any side effects from the VA, and

hope to get off of it after chelation. I wouldn't have been able to

chelate without it (and some of the other supplements and meds, diet

changes too).

good luck

J

>

> Andy,

>

> Thank you for your comments. I actually have your " Amalgam Illness "

> book, and am glad I found it. Also, this question of whether or not

> to medicate our son for his seizures is a huge question around

> here, and I appreciate your opinion.

>

> Would you be able to please forward any links or provide names of

> studies or books that share your opinion that unmedicated

> (particularly absence) seizures cause irreverisible, permanment, and

> lasting brain damage? That's a very scary statement, and it

> contradicts what I have read in a book called " Epilepsy Patient and

> Family Guide, 2nd Edition " by Orrin Devinsky, MD.

> Page 6, under the heading: 'Seizures Do Not Cause Brain Damage,' he

> goes into more detail.

>

> We have also taken our son to 3 neurologists, and have asked one of

> them point blank if not medicating our son would cause brain damage,

> and his answer was no. He was the second neurologist to see our

> son. He prescribed Ethosuximide. (Zarontin)

>

> The first neurologist was against medicating my son at such a young

> age, unless the seizures became problematic.

>

> The most recent neurologist (3rd one) discussed medications, but she

> also calmed my fears that a developmental pediatrician said his type

> of seizures unmedicated could go into status epilepticus. She said

> if they start to get worse, ie, his chin starts to hit the table,

> call me. Or, call when/if you decide to medicate. In no way seemed

> alarmed that at this time we don't want to medicate.

>

> So, in all this, none of them has said that they would cause brain

> damage. Of course, always having my son's best interest at heart, I

> would be really interested to see what you could provide to the

> contrary.

>

> I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

> medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no

> guarantee of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have to

> suffer the side effects, the ones we can see and hear about such as:

> sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea, to

> name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use causing

> liver and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

> group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-seizure

> meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

> reading that there have not been studies on the long term effects of

> absence anti-seizure meds on children.

>

> It's just a tough, tough call to make. The way I see it, chelation

> could be beneficial, but risky. Anti-seizure meds could be both,

> also. We don't like seeing him have these seizures. It's very

> hard on us. Not to mention how they probably make him feel, and

> function. We realize we may have to go down that road, as much as

> we hate to, of medicating him, in the HOPE that the medication will

> stop them. Again, I am aware that it may not, after stressful

> months of trying different ones.

>

> Another point on chelation while on meds is that some, if not all,

> deplete certain minerals. That could be very difficult having meds

> and chelation agent depleting minerals. Could the chelation

> interfere in some way with the meds, too? Or vice versa? How would

> we know which is med reaction or chelation reaction? These are also

> some obstacles I have with regard to the meds, to starting them

> prior to chelation.

>

> Again, I appreciate your comments, and I take them to heart.

>

> Kind regards,

> Cyn

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Andy,

Thanks again for sharing your opinions. Lately, and most recently

with your emails, I have started leaning toward the idea of

medicating sooner than later, but then I read a couple more bad anti-

seizure med stories by parents, (no shortage of them) and that's all

it takes to influence me the other way. I can't help but think I

should learn from them, not follow them down a wrong turn. It's

really difficult to have to be in this position.

It's unfortunate, but I'm not feeling particulary lucky against the

odds of a rare life-threatening rash, as is a possibility from one

of the meds, or some other serious, but rare reaction.

My son, at least so far, seems to be the one that is that rare 1-5

percent that doctors and other specialists try to use when

comforting parent's fears. They use them on us, but then they

backfire. In the end, he becomes that one percent that orthopedic

braces don't work on, he's in that five percent that needed

hydronephrosis surgery as an infant, he's in that small percentage

that puzzles developmental doctors, speech therapists, naturopathic

doctors, craniosacral therapists, osteopathic doctors, etc. They

just give us that look that seems to say " I'm not going to say I

can't help him, but...I can't help him. "

In response to some of your answers, I read that anti-seizure meds

deplete minerals. (not just improper chelation) Also, like you

said, I have read that the brain can get trained to have more

seizures, (seizures beget seizures) that *is* a compelling reason to

medicate...if it works well! You also initially mentioned brain

damage, which you would so far be the only source I heard that from.

I will definitely continue to mull over your opinions, though. We

know we have to get more aggressive with these seizures. I will

atleast mention your strong opinion to medicate prior to chelating

to our next doctor that we are going to see...

Cyn

> >

> > Andy,

> >

> > Thank you for your comments. I actually have your " Amalgam

Illness "

> > book, and am glad I found it. Also, this question of whether or

not

> > to medicate our son for his seizures is a huge question around

> > here, and I appreciate your opinion.

> >

> > Would you be able to please forward any links or provide names

of

> > studies or books that share your opinion that unmedicated

> > (particularly absence) seizures cause irreverisible, permanment,

and

> > lasting brain damage?

>

> All standard neurology textbooks and probably some more general

textbooks as wel.

>

> This is not new, even 2,500 years ago, Hippocates said " seizures

beget seizures. " As

> epileptics remain unmedicated and continue to have more seizures,

their brains get used

> to doing this, seizure frequency often increases, and they become

progressively more

> difficult to control with medication.

>

> > That's a very scary statement, and it

> > contradicts what I have read in a book called " Epilepsy Patient

and

> > Family Guide, 2nd Edition " by Orrin Devinsky, MD.

> > Page 6, under the heading: 'Seizures Do Not Cause Brain

Damage,' he

> > goes into more detail.

> >

> > We have also taken our son to 3 neurologists, and have asked one

of

> > them point blank if not medicating our son would cause brain

damage,

> > and his answer was no. He was the second neurologist to see our

> > son. He prescribed Ethosuximide. (Zarontin)

>

> Why not go fill the Rx and give it a try?

>

> How can you rationally decide whether to medicate him or not

without at least giving it a

> try?

>

> > The first neurologist was against medicating my son at such a

young

> > age, unless the seizures became problematic.

> >

> > The most recent neurologist (3rd one) discussed medications, but

she

> > also calmed my fears that a developmental pediatrician said his

type

> > of seizures unmedicated could go into status epilepticus. She

said

> > if they start to get worse, ie, his chin starts to hit the

table,

> > call me. Or, call when/if you decide to medicate. In no way

seemed

> > alarmed that at this time we don't want to medicate.

> >

> > So, in all this, none of them has said that they would cause

brain

> > damage. Of course, always having my son's best interest at

heart, I

> > would be really interested to see what you could provide to the

> > contrary.

> >

> > I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

> > medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no

> > guarantee of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have to

> > suffer the side effects, the ones we can see and hear about such

as:

> > sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea,

to

> > name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use causing

> > liver and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

> > group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-

seizure

> > meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

> > reading that there have not been studies on the long term

effects of

> > absence anti-seizure meds on children.

>

> There haven't been studies of the long term effects of most thing

on most groups of

> people. However since these meds are typically taken for long

periods of time, and

> absence has onset in childhood, there is an enormous amount of

experience with using

> these medications in children. Studies are no real substitute for

experience.

>

> > It's just a tough, tough call to make. The way I see it,

chelation

> > could be beneficial, but risky. Anti-seizure meds could be

both,

> > also. We don't like seeing him have these seizures. It's very

> > hard on us. Not to mention how they probably make him feel, and

> > function. We realize we may have to go down that road, as much

as

> > we hate to, of medicating him, in the HOPE that the medication

will

> > stop them. Again, I am aware that it may not, after stressful

> > months of trying different ones.

>

> Why not try them? Then you'll know if they are going to work or

not and won't have to

> wonder about that. If they don't work you can always stop them.

If the side effects are

> intolerable you can always stop them.

>

> > Another point on chelation while on meds is that some, if not

all,

> > deplete certain minerals.

>

> Chelating properly does not deplete any minerals.

>

> > That could be very difficult having meds

> > and chelation agent depleting minerals. Could the chelation

> > interfere in some way with the meds, too?

>

> No.

>

> > Or vice versa?

>

> No.

>

> > How would

> > we know which is med reaction or chelation reaction?

>

> By introducing the meds and chelation at separate times.

>

> >These are also

> > some obstacles I have with regard to the meds, to starting them

> > prior to chelation.

> >

> > Again, I appreciate your comments, and I take them to heart.

> >

> > Kind regards,

> > Cyn

>

[Guest guest]

,

Prayers are *always* welcome!! Thank you! Interesting comment about

diflucan eliminating your daughters seizures.

Cyn

> > > >

> > > > Hi ,

> > > >

> > > > I hope everything starts working out for you guys. I am late

to

> > > > jump in here, as I just joined, but it seems from your

> > observation

> > > > that chelating with ALA made your sons Absence seizures

worse?

> > > >

> > > > I suppose this is my introduction. I have a 4 year old son

who

> > has

> > > > been having Absence seizures for more than two years now, and

> > have

> > > > tried a lot of things, but so far the Specific Carbohydrate

Diet

> > and

> > > > epsom salt baths have helped the most. Those and prune juice,

> > simple

> > > > as it sounds, for regularity. We have yet to medicate, trying

> > to

> > > > heal instead.

> > >

> > > I believe this is a very serious error and not in the child's

best

> > interest. I think you should

> > > try the medications and decide after that whether to continue

them.

> > >

> > > Uncontrolled seizures cause permanent lasting irreversible

brain

> > damage. There is a good

> > > reason the MD world is pretty focussed on getting them

controlled.

> > >

> > > I know people whose parents didn't control their absence

seizures

> > as children and it

> > > ruined their lives.

> > >

> > > > Plus, really uncomfortable with the med choices

> > > > available for seizures.

> > >

> > > The realistic choices for absence are Zarontin, Depakote and

> > Lamictal. Zarontin is the

> > > safest but seldom offered by the neuros since it is a very old

> > med. BTW, the brand name

> > > and generic are NOT equivalent for Zarontin, so if you try it,

> > pick one or the other and

> > > stick with it. If you try generic and it doesn't work, try

brand

> > name before giving up on it.

> > >

> > > > We will most likely pursue chelation,

> > >

> > > *I* strongly suggest you try medications first!

> > >

> > > > if the next doctor we are

> > > > going to see in a couple months confirms, and the trust is

> > there.

> > > > (I feel like I am running out of doctors, at least locally,

to

> > > > trust. It's a horrible feeling.)

> > >

> > > Yes, it is difficult. It's a lot easier to take once you start

> > viewing them as service providers

> > > - body mechanics, sorta like car mechanics, but a lot more

> > expensive.

> > >

> > > > He has tested high previously for mercury and arsenic. I had

a

> > huge

> > > > maternal load, everything from amalgams to Rhogham to flu

shot.

> > The

> > > > chemical toxin onslaught continued for him, unknowingly of

> > course,

> > > > most especially his first year. He also has low tone, which

> > affects

> > > > his articulation and motor processing.

> > > >

> > > > I have read that chelation can bring on seizures. What I

> > haven't

> > > > read too much about is if chelation can eliminate seizures.

> > >

> > > Yes. In the long term.

> > >

> > > In the short term you need the meds on board to chelate.

> > >

> > > > Or, will it make his worse??

> > >

> > > If you aren't medicating him and do chelate, which I STRONGLY

> > discourage, it probably will

> > > do this in the short term.

> > >

> > > > That is a very scary thought, too.

> > > >

> > > > Also, what about using Castor Oil packs as Edgar Cayce (the

> > sleeping

> > > > psychic) suggested to people with epilepsy? Has anyone had

any

> > > > success using them?? I keep thinking I want to do them with

my

> > son,

> > > > but get conflicting reports on safety on children. I also

> > recently

> > > > learned that they may " shift things around " and cause more

> > probs.

> > > > My son gets his seizures throughout the day.

> > >

> > > Medicate first. Like right now. Work on the other stuff later

and

> > if you're lucky he won't

> > > need so much medication.

> > >

> > > > Good luck, and if anyone can shed any light, I am listening,

and

> > > > reading!

> > > >

> > > > Cyn

> > >

> > > What I've found is that in some areas nutritional supplements,

> > diet, etc. are far, far

> > > superior to Rx meds. In others the Rx meds are by far the best.

> > >

> > > Epilepsy is an area where usually the Rx meds are the only

> > realistic choice and the only

> > > thing that is going to work.

> > >

> > > Andy

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . That's interesing you didn't get a diag. fist, why

was it prescribed? I'm really glad to hear that it worked so well

for you. I will keep that in mind.

Cyn

> >

> > Andy,

> >

> > Thank you for your comments. I actually have your " Amalgam

Illness "

> > book, and am glad I found it. Also, this question of whether or

not

> > to medicate our son for his seizures is a huge question around

> > here, and I appreciate your opinion.

> >

> > Would you be able to please forward any links or provide names

of

> > studies or books that share your opinion that unmedicated

> > (particularly absence) seizures cause irreverisible, permanment,

and

> > lasting brain damage? That's a very scary statement, and it

> > contradicts what I have read in a book called " Epilepsy Patient

and

> > Family Guide, 2nd Edition " by Orrin Devinsky, MD.

> > Page 6, under the heading: 'Seizures Do Not Cause Brain

Damage,' he

> > goes into more detail.

> >

> > We have also taken our son to 3 neurologists, and have asked one

of

> > them point blank if not medicating our son would cause brain

damage,

> > and his answer was no. He was the second neurologist to see our

> > son. He prescribed Ethosuximide. (Zarontin)

> >

> > The first neurologist was against medicating my son at such a

young

> > age, unless the seizures became problematic.

> >

> > The most recent neurologist (3rd one) discussed medications, but

she

> > also calmed my fears that a developmental pediatrician said his

type

> > of seizures unmedicated could go into status epilepticus. She

said

> > if they start to get worse, ie, his chin starts to hit the

table,

> > call me. Or, call when/if you decide to medicate. In no way

seemed

> > alarmed that at this time we don't want to medicate.

> >

> > So, in all this, none of them has said that they would cause

brain

> > damage. Of course, always having my son's best interest at

heart, I

> > would be really interested to see what you could provide to the

> > contrary.

> >

> > I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

> > medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no

> > guarantee of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have to

> > suffer the side effects, the ones we can see and hear about such

as:

> > sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea,

to

> > name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use causing

> > liver and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

> > group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-

seizure

> > meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

> > reading that there have not been studies on the long term

effects of

> > absence anti-seizure meds on children.

> >

> > It's just a tough, tough call to make. The way I see it,

chelation

> > could be beneficial, but risky. Anti-seizure meds could be

both,

> > also. We don't like seeing him have these seizures. It's very

> > hard on us. Not to mention how they probably make him feel, and

> > function. We realize we may have to go down that road, as much

as

> > we hate to, of medicating him, in the HOPE that the medication

will

> > stop them. Again, I am aware that it may not, after stressful

> > months of trying different ones.

> >

> > Another point on chelation while on meds is that some, if not

all,

> > deplete certain minerals. That could be very difficult having

meds

> > and chelation agent depleting minerals. Could the chelation

> > interfere in some way with the meds, too? Or vice versa? How

would

> > we know which is med reaction or chelation reaction? These are

also

> > some obstacles I have with regard to the meds, to starting them

> > prior to chelation.

> >

> > Again, I appreciate your comments, and I take them to heart.

> >

> > Kind regards,

> > Cyn

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes Cyn...

They seemed to go away when I treated for yeast, believe it or not!

On Sep 1, 2008, at 6:35 PM, CJ wrote:

> ,

>

> Prayers are *always* welcome!! Thank you! Interesting comment about

> diflucan eliminating your daughters seizures.

>

> Cyn

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi ,

> > > > >

> > > > > I hope everything starts working out for you guys. I am late

> to

> > > > > jump in here, as I just joined, but it seems from your

> > > observation

> > > > > that chelating with ALA made your sons Absence seizures

> worse?

> > > > >

> > > > > I suppose this is my introduction. I have a 4 year old son

> who

> > > has

> > > > > been having Absence seizures for more than two years now, and

> > > have

> > > > > tried a lot of things, but so far the Specific Carbohydrate

> Diet

> > > and

> > > > > epsom salt baths have helped the most. Those and prune juice,

> > > simple

> > > > > as it sounds, for regularity. We have yet to medicate, trying

> > > to

> > > > > heal instead.

> > > >

> > > > I believe this is a very serious error and not in the child's

> best

> > > interest. I think you should

> > > > try the medications and decide after that whether to continue

> them.

> > > >

> > > > Uncontrolled seizures cause permanent lasting irreversible

> brain

> > > damage. There is a good

> > > > reason the MD world is pretty focussed on getting them

> controlled.

> > > >

> > > > I know people whose parents didn't control their absence

> seizures

> > > as children and it

> > > > ruined their lives.

> > > >

> > > > > Plus, really uncomfortable with the med choices

> > > > > available for seizures.

> > > >

> > > > The realistic choices for absence are Zarontin, Depakote and

> > > Lamictal. Zarontin is the

> > > > safest but seldom offered by the neuros since it is a very old

> > > med. BTW, the brand name

> > > > and generic are NOT equivalent for Zarontin, so if you try it,

> > > pick one or the other and

> > > > stick with it. If you try generic and it doesn't work, try

> brand

> > > name before giving up on it.

> > > >

> > > > > We will most likely pursue chelation,

> > > >

> > > > *I* strongly suggest you try medications first!

> > > >

> > > > > if the next doctor we are

> > > > > going to see in a couple months confirms, and the trust is

> > > there.

> > > > > (I feel like I am running out of doctors, at least locally,

> to

> > > > > trust. It's a horrible feeling.)

> > > >

> > > > Yes, it is difficult. It's a lot easier to take once you start

> > > viewing them as service providers

> > > > - body mechanics, sorta like car mechanics, but a lot more

> > > expensive.

> > > >

> > > > > He has tested high previously for mercury and arsenic. I had

> a

> > > huge

> > > > > maternal load, everything from amalgams to Rhogham to flu

> shot.

> > > The

> > > > > chemical toxin onslaught continued for him, unknowingly of

> > > course,

> > > > > most especially his first year. He also has low tone, which

> > > affects

> > > > > his articulation and motor processing.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have read that chelation can bring on seizures. What I

> > > haven't

> > > > > read too much about is if chelation can eliminate seizures.

> > > >

> > > > Yes. In the long term.

> > > >

> > > > In the short term you need the meds on board to chelate.

> > > >

> > > > > Or, will it make his worse??

> > > >

> > > > If you aren't medicating him and do chelate, which I STRONGLY

> > > discourage, it probably will

> > > > do this in the short term.

> > > >

> > > > > That is a very scary thought, too.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, what about using Castor Oil packs as Edgar Cayce (the

> > > sleeping

> > > > > psychic) suggested to people with epilepsy? Has anyone had

> any

> > > > > success using them?? I keep thinking I want to do them with

> my

> > > son,

> > > > > but get conflicting reports on safety on children. I also

> > > recently

> > > > > learned that they may " shift things around " and cause more

> > > probs.

> > > > > My son gets his seizures throughout the day.

> > > >

> > > > Medicate first. Like right now. Work on the other stuff later

> and

> > > if you're lucky he won't

> > > > need so much medication.

> > > >

> > > > > Good luck, and if anyone can shed any light, I am listening,

> and

> > > > > reading!

> > > > >

> > > > > Cyn

> > > >

> > > > What I've found is that in some areas nutritional supplements,

> > > diet, etc. are far, far

> > > > superior to Rx meds. In others the Rx meds are by far the best.

> > > >

> > > > Epilepsy is an area where usually the Rx meds are the only

> > > realistic choice and the only

> > > > thing that is going to work.

> > > >

> > > > Andy

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > Andy,

> > >

> > > Thank you for your comments. I actually have your " Amalgam

> Illness "

> > > book, and am glad I found it. Also, this question of whether or

> not

> > > to medicate our son for his seizures is a huge question around

> > > here, and I appreciate your opinion.

> > >

> > > Would you be able to please forward any links or provide names

> of

> > > studies or books that share your opinion that unmedicated

> > > (particularly absence) seizures cause irreverisible, permanment,

> and

> > > lasting brain damage?

> >

> > All standard neurology textbooks and probably some more general

> textbooks as wel.

> >

> > This is not new, even 2,500 years ago, Hippocates said " seizures

> beget seizures. " As

> > epileptics remain unmedicated and continue to have more seizures,

> their brains get used

> > to doing this, seizure frequency often increases, and they become

> progressively more

> > difficult to control with medication.

> >

> > > That's a very scary statement, and it

> > > contradicts what I have read in a book called " Epilepsy Patient

> and

> > > Family Guide, 2nd Edition " by Orrin Devinsky, MD.

> > > Page 6, under the heading: 'Seizures Do Not Cause Brain

> Damage,' he

> > > goes into more detail.

> > >

> > > We have also taken our son to 3 neurologists, and have asked one

> of

> > > them point blank if not medicating our son would cause brain

> damage,

> > > and his answer was no. He was the second neurologist to see our

> > > son. He prescribed Ethosuximide. (Zarontin)

> >

> > Why not go fill the Rx and give it a try?

> >

> > How can you rationally decide whether to medicate him or not

> without at least giving it a

> > try?

> >

> > > The first neurologist was against medicating my son at such a

> young

> > > age, unless the seizures became problematic.

> > >

> > > The most recent neurologist (3rd one) discussed medications, but

> she

> > > also calmed my fears that a developmental pediatrician said his

> type

> > > of seizures unmedicated could go into status epilepticus. She

> said

> > > if they start to get worse, ie, his chin starts to hit the

> table,

> > > call me. Or, call when/if you decide to medicate. In no way

> seemed

> > > alarmed that at this time we don't want to medicate.

> > >

> > > So, in all this, none of them has said that they would cause

> brain

> > > damage. Of course, always having my son's best interest at

> heart, I

> > > would be really interested to see what you could provide to the

> > > contrary.

> > >

> > > I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

> > > medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no

> > > guarantee of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have to

> > > suffer the side effects, the ones we can see and hear about such

> as:

> > > sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea,

> to

> > > name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use causing

> > > liver and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

>

> > > group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-

> seizure

> > > meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

> > > reading that there have not been studies on the long term

> effects of

> > > absence anti-seizure meds on children.

> >

> > There haven't been studies of the long term effects of most thing

> on most groups of

> > people. However since these meds are typically taken for long

> periods of time, and

> > absence has onset in childhood, there is an enormous amount of

> experience with using

> > these medications in children. Studies are no real substitute for

> experience.

> >

> > > It's just a tough, tough call to make. The way I see it,

> chelation

> > > could be beneficial, but risky. Anti-seizure meds could be

> both,

> > > also. We don't like seeing him have these seizures. It's very

> > > hard on us. Not to mention how they probably make him feel, and

> > > function. We realize we may have to go down that road, as much

> as

> > > we hate to, of medicating him, in the HOPE that the medication

> will

> > > stop them. Again, I am aware that it may not, after stressful

> > > months of trying different ones.

> >

> > Why not try them? Then you'll know if they are going to work or

> not and won't have to

> > wonder about that. If they don't work you can always stop them.

> If the side effects are

> > intolerable you can always stop them.

> >

> > > Another point on chelation while on meds is that some, if not

> all,

> > > deplete certain minerals.

> >

> > Chelating properly does not deplete any minerals.

> >

> > > That could be very difficult having meds

> > > and chelation agent depleting minerals. Could the chelation

> > > interfere in some way with the meds, too?

> >

> > No.

> >

> > > Or vice versa?

> >

> > No.

> >

> > > How would

> > > we know which is med reaction or chelation reaction?

> >

> > By introducing the meds and chelation at separate times.

> >

> > >These are also

> > > some obstacles I have with regard to the meds, to starting them

> > > prior to chelation.

> > >

> > > Again, I appreciate your comments, and I take them to heart.

> > >

> > > Kind regards,

> > > Cyn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Andy My names Heidi from Melb Australai, my little boy is 4.5 years, twin

sister who is fine, he has ASD moderate to severe. I am seeing DAN dr doing the

usual stuff, Austin, maybe you have met him on conference? My bub Kingsley

is on all Supps recc and chelation, he still seems to get sick all the time ,and

when sick his Autism seems to take over any progress. Im feeling overwhelmed to

say the the least.Feeling sorry for my baby and myself, any advice would be

great and also do you know of a suppert website for parents like me who just

need to talk to other parents and not feel so alone?  Thanks so much Heidi

[ ] Re: Chelating with Seizures - Andy

> > >

> > > Andy,

> > >

> > > Thank you for your comments. I actually have your " Amalgam

> Illness "

> > > book, and am glad I found it. Also, this question of whether or

> not

> > > to medicate our son for his seizures is a huge question around

> > > here, and I appreciate your opinion.

> > >

> > > Would you be able to please forward any links or provide names

> of

> > > studies or books that share your opinion that unmedicated

> > > (particularly absence) seizures cause irreverisible, permanment,

> and

> > > lasting brain damage?

> >

> > All standard neurology textbooks and probably some more general

> textbooks as wel.

> >

> > This is not new, even 2,500 years ago, Hippocates said " seizures

> beget seizures. " As

> > epileptics remain unmedicated and continue to have more seizures,

> their brains get used

> > to doing this, seizure frequency often increases, and they become

> progressively more

> > difficult to control with medication.

> >

> > > That's a very scary statement, and it

> > > contradicts what I have read in a book called " Epilepsy Patient

> and

> > > Family Guide, 2nd Edition " by Orrin Devinsky, MD.

> > > Page 6, under the heading: 'Seizures Do Not Cause Brain

> Damage,' he

> > > goes into more detail.

> > >

> > > We have also taken our son to 3 neurologists, and have asked one

> of

> > > them point blank if not medicating our son would cause brain

> damage,

> > > and his answer was no. He was the second neurologist to see our

> > > son. He prescribed Ethosuximide. (Zarontin)

> >

> > Why not go fill the Rx and give it a try?

> >

> > How can you rationally decide whether to medicate him or not

> without at least giving it a

> > try?

> >

> > > The first neurologist was against medicating my son at such a

> young

> > > age, unless the seizures became problematic.

> > >

> > > The most recent neurologist (3rd one) discussed medications, but

> she

> > > also calmed my fears that a developmental pediatrician said his

> type

> > > of seizures unmedicated could go into status epilepticus. She

> said

> > > if they start to get worse, ie, his chin starts to hit the

> table,

> > > call me. Or, call when/if you decide to medicate. In no way

> seemed

> > > alarmed that at this time we don't want to medicate.

> > >

> > > So, in all this, none of them has said that they would cause

> brain

> > > damage. Of course, always having my son's best interest at

> heart, I

> > > would be really interested to see what you could provide to the

> > > contrary.

> > >

> > > I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

> > > medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no

> > > guarantee of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have to

> > > suffer the side effects, the ones we can see and hear about such

> as:

> > > sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea,

> to

> > > name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use causing

> > > liver and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

>

> > > group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-

> seizure

> > > meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

> > > reading that there have not been studies on the long term

> effects of

> > > absence anti-seizure meds on children.

> >

> > There haven't been studies of the long term effects of most thing

> on most groups of

> > people. However since these meds are typically taken for long

> periods of time, and

> > absence has onset in childhood, there is an enormous amount of

> experience with using

> > these medications in children. Studies are no real substitute for

> experience.

> >

> > > It's just a tough, tough call to make. The way I see it,

> chelation

> > > could be beneficial, but risky. Anti-seizure meds could be

> both,

> > > also. We don't like seeing him have these seizures. It's very

> > > hard on us. Not to mention how they probably make him feel, and

> > > function. We realize we may have to go down that road, as much

> as

> > > we hate to, of medicating him, in the HOPE that the medication

> will

> > > stop them. Again, I am aware that it may not, after stressful

> > > months of trying different ones.

> >

> > Why not try them? Then you'll know if they are going to work or

> not and won't have to

> > wonder about that. If they don't work you can always stop them.

> If the side effects are

> > intolerable you can always stop them.

> >

> > > Another point on chelation while on meds is that some, if not

> all,

> > > deplete certain minerals.

> >

> > Chelating properly does not deplete any minerals.

> >

> > > That could be very difficult having meds

> > > and chelation agent depleting minerals. Could the chelation

> > > interfere in some way with the meds, too?

> >

> > No.

> >

> > > Or vice versa?

> >

> > No.

> >

> > > How would

> > > we know which is med reaction or chelation reaction?

> >

> > By introducing the meds and chelation at separate times.

> >

> > >These are also

> > > some obstacles I have with regard to the meds, to starting them

> > > prior to chelation.

> > >

> > > Again, I appreciate your comments, and I take them to heart.

> > >

> > > Kind regards,

> > > Cyn

> >

>

Win a MacBook Air or iPod touch with 7.

http://au.docs./homepageset

[Guest guest]

I feel this response to a parent was overly critical and not very

compassionate. She has a lot of good points, this paragraph for one

stands out:

" I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no guarantee

of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have to suffer the side

effects, the ones we can see and hear about such as:

sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea, to

name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use causing liver

and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-

seizure meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

reading that there have not been studies on the long term

effects of absence anti-seizure meds on children "

The medications do have real side effects short and long-term. Yes,

there is confusion and you have said to try anything, but to state

she needs mental help and other strong judgments?

Why not offer other safe and viable options then such as homeopathy,

acupuncture and others?

Best wishes,

Liz

Classical Homeopath

> > > >

> > > > Andy,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for your comments. I actually have your " Amalgam

> > Illness "

> > > > book, and am glad I found it. Also, this question of whether

or

> > not

> > > > to medicate our son for his seizures is a huge question

around

> > > > here, and I appreciate your opinion.

> > > >

> > > > Would you be able to please forward any links or provide

names

> > of

> > > > studies or books that share your opinion that unmedicated

> > > > (particularly absence) seizures cause irreverisible,

permanment,

> > and

> > > > lasting brain damage?

> > >

> > > All standard neurology textbooks and probably some more general

> > textbooks as wel.

> > >

> > > This is not new, even 2,500 years ago, Hippocates

said " seizures

> > beget seizures. " As

> > > epileptics remain unmedicated and continue to have more

seizures,

> > their brains get used

> > > to doing this, seizure frequency often increases, and they

become

> > progressively more

> > > difficult to control with medication.

> > >

> > > > That's a very scary statement, and it

> > > > contradicts what I have read in a book called " Epilepsy

Patient

> > and

> > > > Family Guide, 2nd Edition " by Orrin Devinsky, MD.

> > > > Page 6, under the heading: 'Seizures Do Not Cause Brain

> > Damage,' he

> > > > goes into more detail.

> > > >

> > > > We have also taken our son to 3 neurologists, and have asked

one

> > of

> > > > them point blank if not medicating our son would cause brain

> > damage,

> > > > and his answer was no. He was the second neurologist to see

our

> > > > son. He prescribed Ethosuximide. (Zarontin)

> > >

> > > Why not go fill the Rx and give it a try?

> > >

> > > How can you rationally decide whether to medicate him or not

> > without at least giving it a

> > > try?

> > >

> > > > The first neurologist was against medicating my son at such a

> > young

> > > > age, unless the seizures became problematic.

> > > >

> > > > The most recent neurologist (3rd one) discussed medications,

but

> > she

> > > > also calmed my fears that a developmental pediatrician said

his

> > type

> > > > of seizures unmedicated could go into status epilepticus.

She

> > said

> > > > if they start to get worse, ie, his chin starts to hit the

> > table,

> > > > call me. Or, call when/if you decide to medicate. In no way

> > seemed

> > > > alarmed that at this time we don't want to medicate.

> > > >

> > > > So, in all this, none of them has said that they would cause

> > brain

> > > > damage. Of course, always having my son's best interest at

> > heart, I

> > > > would be really interested to see what you could provide to

the

> > > > contrary.

> > > >

> > > > I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

> > > > medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no

> > > > guarantee of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have

to

> > > > suffer the side effects, the ones we can see and hear about

such

> > as:

> > > > sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness,

nausea,

> > to

> > > > name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use

causing

> > > > liver and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

> >

> > > > group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-

> > seizure

> > > > meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

> > > > reading that there have not been studies on the long term

> > effects of

> > > > absence anti-seizure meds on children.

> > >

> > > There haven't been studies of the long term effects of most

thing

> > on most groups of

> > > people. However since these meds are typically taken for long

> > periods of time, and

> > > absence has onset in childhood, there is an enormous amount of

> > experience with using

> > > these medications in children. Studies are no real substitute

for

> > experience.

> > >

> > > > It's just a tough, tough call to make. The way I see it,

> > chelation

> > > > could be beneficial, but risky. Anti-seizure meds could be

> > both,

> > > > also. We don't like seeing him have these seizures. It's

very

> > > > hard on us. Not to mention how they probably make him feel,

and

> > > > function. We realize we may have to go down that road, as

much

> > as

> > > > we hate to, of medicating him, in the HOPE that the

medication

> > will

> > > > stop them. Again, I am aware that it may not, after

stressful

> > > > months of trying different ones.

> > >

> > > Why not try them? Then you'll know if they are going to work

or

> > not and won't have to

> > > wonder about that. If they don't work you can always stop

them.

> > If the side effects are

> > > intolerable you can always stop them.

> > >

> > > > Another point on chelation while on meds is that some, if not

> > all,

> > > > deplete certain minerals.

> > >

> > > Chelating properly does not deplete any minerals.

> > >

> > > > That could be very difficult having meds

> > > > and chelation agent depleting minerals. Could the chelation

> > > > interfere in some way with the meds, too?

> > >

> > > No.

> > >

> > > > Or vice versa?

> > >

> > > No.

> > >

> > > > How would

> > > > we know which is med reaction or chelation reaction?

> > >

> > > By introducing the meds and chelation at separate times.

> > >

> > > >These are also

> > > > some obstacles I have with regard to the meds, to starting

them

> > > > prior to chelation.

> > > >

> > > > Again, I appreciate your comments, and I take them to heart.

> > > >

> > > > Kind regards,

> > > > Cyn

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Andy,

Could you elaborate on why not lamictal? As you may remember, Depakote

was a disaster for my daughter as it increased the number and severity

of her seizures. Tegretol did nothing to control them. She now takes a

moderate dose of lamictal but continues to have breakthrough seizures

with any dietary infraction re to gluten and casein. The lamictal has

made her very inattentive and gave her a very bad rash initially.

Thanks,

>

>

> Then start with Zarontin, Depakote next, skip the lamictal until

after the ketogenic or

> Atkins diet (and anything else halfway reasonable you can think of).

[Guest guest]

AED's have VERY serious side effects & work differently depending on the person.

Dr.s don't even know how or why they work. We have experienced several adverse

effects. FACT-AEDs DO NOT ALWAYS WORK. My son is on an AED right now, but I am

closely monitoring & keeping the dose low.

 

Personally, I think any parent that doesn't have the concerns expressed by that

mother below is not well informed. She has done  her homework and is trying to

make the best choice.

From: Brandegee <lightspirals@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Chelating with Seizures - Andy

Date: Friday, September 5, 2008, 1:06 PM

I feel this response to a parent was overly critical and not very

compassionate. She has a lot of good points, this paragraph for one

stands out:

" I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no guarantee

of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have to suffer the side

effects, the ones we can see and hear about such as:

sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea, to

name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use causing liver

and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-

seizure meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

reading that there have not been studies on the long term

effects of absence anti-seizure meds on children "

The medications do have real side effects short and long-term. Yes,

there is confusion and you have said to try anything, but to state

she needs mental help and other strong judgments?

Why not offer other safe and viable options then such as homeopathy,

acupuncture and others?

Best wishes,

Liz

Classical Homeopath

> > > >

> > > > Andy,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for your comments. I actually have your " Amalgam

> > Illness "

> > > > book, and am glad I found it. Also, this question of whether

or

> > not

> > > > to medicate our son for his seizures is a huge question

around

> > > > here, and I appreciate your opinion.

> > > >

> > > > Would you be able to please forward any links or provide

names

> > of

> > > > studies or books that share your opinion that unmedicated

> > > > (particularly absence) seizures cause irreverisible,

permanment,

> > and

> > > > lasting brain damage?

> > >

> > > All standard neurology textbooks and probably some more general

> > textbooks as wel.

> > >

> > > This is not new, even 2,500 years ago, Hippocates

said " seizures

> > beget seizures. " As

> > > epileptics remain unmedicated and continue to have more

seizures,

> > their brains get used

> > > to doing this, seizure frequency often increases, and they

become

> > progressively more

> > > difficult to control with medication.

> > >

> > > > That's a very scary statement, and it

> > > > contradicts what I have read in a book called " Epilepsy

Patient

> > and

> > > > Family Guide, 2nd Edition " by Orrin Devinsky, MD.

> > > > Page 6, under the heading: 'Seizures Do Not Cause Brain

> > Damage,' he

> > > > goes into more detail.

> > > >

> > > > We have also taken our son to 3 neurologists, and have asked

one

> > of

> > > > them point blank if not medicating our son would cause brain

> > damage,

> > > > and his answer was no. He was the second neurologist to see

our

> > > > son. He prescribed Ethosuximide. (Zarontin)

> > >

> > > Why not go fill the Rx and give it a try?

> > >

> > > How can you rationally decide whether to medicate him or not

> > without at least giving it a

> > > try?

> > >

> > > > The first neurologist was against medicating my son at such a

> > young

> > > > age, unless the seizures became problematic.

> > > >

> > > > The most recent neurologist (3rd one) discussed medications,

but

> > she

> > > > also calmed my fears that a developmental pediatrician said

his

> > type

> > > > of seizures unmedicated could go into status epilepticus.

She

> > said

> > > > if they start to get worse, ie, his chin starts to hit the

> > table,

> > > > call me. Or, call when/if you decide to medicate. In no way

> > seemed

> > > > alarmed that at this time we don't want to medicate.

> > > >

> > > > So, in all this, none of them has said that they would cause

> > brain

> > > > damage. Of course, always having my son's best interest at

> > heart, I

> > > > would be really interested to see what you could provide to

the

> > > > contrary.

> > > >

> > > > I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

> > > > medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no

> > > > guarantee of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have

to

> > > > suffer the side effects, the ones we can see and hear about

such

> > as:

> > > > sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness,

nausea,

> > to

> > > > name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use

causing

> > > > liver and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

> >

> > > > group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-

> > seizure

> > > > meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

> > > > reading that there have not been studies on the long term

> > effects of

> > > > absence anti-seizure meds on children.

> > >

> > > There haven't been studies of the long term effects of most

thing

> > on most groups of

> > > people. However since these meds are typically taken for long

> > periods of time, and

> > > absence has onset in childhood, there is an enormous amount of

> > experience with using

> > > these medications in children. Studies are no real substitute

for

> > experience.

> > >

> > > > It's just a tough, tough call to make. The way I see it,

> > chelation

> > > > could be beneficial, but risky. Anti-seizure meds could be

> > both,

> > > > also. We don't like seeing him have these seizures. It's

very

> > > > hard on us. Not to mention how they probably make him feel,

and

> > > > function. We realize we may have to go down that road, as

much

> > as

> > > > we hate to, of medicating him, in the HOPE that the

medication

> > will

> > > > stop them. Again, I am aware that it may not, after

stressful

> > > > months of trying different ones.

> > >

> > > Why not try them? Then you'll know if they are going to work

or

> > not and won't have to

> > > wonder about that. If they don't work you can always stop

them.

> > If the side effects are

> > > intolerable you can always stop them.

> > >

> > > > Another point on chelation while on meds is that some, if not

> > all,

> > > > deplete certain minerals.

> > >

> > > Chelating properly does not deplete any minerals.

> > >

> > > > That could be very difficult having meds

> > > > and chelation agent depleting minerals. Could the chelation

> > > > interfere in some way with the meds, too?

> > >

> > > No.

> > >

> > > > Or vice versa?

> > >

> > > No.

> > >

> > > > How would

> > > > we know which is med reaction or chelation reaction?

> > >

> > > By introducing the meds and chelation at separate times.

> > >

> > > >These are also

> > > > some obstacles I have with regard to the meds, to starting

them

> > > > prior to chelation.

> > > >

> > > > Again, I appreciate your comments, and I take them to heart.

> > > >

> > > > Kind regards,

> > > > Cyn

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'll respond to a bunch of materal on this subject here.

It is true AED's suck, uncontrolled epilepsy sucks more, there really are no

good choices

here and it is ludicrious to think homeopathy has any chance of helping.

In other areas the Rx meds are useless and other approaches work great,

including

properly prescribed homeopathics.

It's important to try to understand what is going on and what the real choices

are for a

given issue, which is unfortunately made very difficult by the irresponsible

advocacy that

most pseudoprofessionals offer in place of legitimate advice about what works

and what

doesn't for a given problem. E. g. homeopaths choose to be as irresponsible as

MD's in

pretending what THEY do is useful for everything, or an appropriate choice.

Similarly for

naturopaths, many chiropractors, etc.

The best I've been able to figure is that with epileptic seizures

1. It is important to control them ASAP in most cases,

2. Most of the choices that have any hope of helping are Rx meds.

3. All the meds suck.

4. The meds tend to be Rx'd fairly irresponsibly.

5. Most other factors (diets other than Atkins/keto, etc.) have a modest effect

and most

people aren't just on the edge where these interventions alone will do it,

though they often

help.

6. A lot of fear (in both the patients and parents of them) goes along with

seizures.

7. Often nothing works particularly well.

Given this there is no real alternative to getting on with trying things.

My comment about psychiatric care was specifically directed at discussion I

could

reasonably interpret as meaning the mother was unable to actually try anything

due to

being frightened by something she found about more or less every intervention

available.

This is especially true since even if you find only accurate information (a

legitimate

description of less than 1% of what you'll find on the internet) there will be

something

scary about every possible intervention that has any hope of working.

Decisionmaking

isn't going to be easy, fear or no fear. Decisions still have to be made and

action taken.

I hope the mother will forgive me for being so blunt, but the health and future

prospects

of her child are much more important than whether she gets upset that I didn't

find a way

to sugar coat what I had to say.

Andy

[Guest guest]

> >

>

> >

> > Then start with Zarontin, Depakote next, skip the lamictal until

> after the ketogenic or

> > Atkins diet (and anything else halfway reasonable you can think of).

>

[Guest guest]

Andy,

I am shocked to see this email. Interesting, how you have spun my

reluctance up to this point to medicate my son into doing NOTHING

for him! How did you glean THAT from my emails?? Who said I was

doing NOTHING! Without provocation you even suggest now I need

counseling or psychiatric drugs my own self! Your comments were

obnoxious. You made your point about medication earlier, which I

acknowledged, and so this last email of yours was not necessary, and

seems only meant to harm rather than help. It's very

confrontational, and unwarranted.

It appears rather than being concerned, you are using the

opportunity to just be mean. You are quite freely (and inaccurately)

judging me while 1)not being in my shoes and 2) having a miniscule

perspective on our situation. It shows ignorance.

Cyn

>

> [ ] Re: Chelating with Seizures - Andy

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Andy,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for your comments. I actually have your " Amalgam

> > Illness "

> > > > book, and am glad I found it. Also, this question of whether

or

> > not

> > > > to medicate our son for his seizures is a huge question

around

> > > > here, and I appreciate your opinion.

> > > >

> > > > Would you be able to please forward any links or provide

names

> > of

> > > > studies or books that share your opinion that unmedicated

> > > > (particularly absence) seizures cause irreverisible,

permanment,

> > and

> > > > lasting brain damage?

> > >

> > > All standard neurology textbooks and probably some more

general

> > textbooks as wel.

> > >

> > > This is not new, even 2,500 years ago, Hippocates

said " seizures

> > beget seizures. " As

> > > epileptics remain unmedicated and continue to have more

seizures,

> > their brains get used

> > > to doing this, seizure frequency often increases, and they

become

> > progressively more

> > > difficult to control with medication.

> > >

> > > > That's a very scary statement, and it

> > > > contradicts what I have read in a book called " Epilepsy

Patient

> > and

> > > > Family Guide, 2nd Edition " by Orrin Devinsky, MD.

> > > > Page 6, under the heading: 'Seizures Do Not Cause Brain

> > Damage,' he

> > > > goes into more detail.

> > > >

> > > > We have also taken our son to 3 neurologists, and have asked

one

> > of

> > > > them point blank if not medicating our son would cause brain

> > damage,

> > > > and his answer was no. He was the second neurologist to see

our

> > > > son. He prescribed Ethosuximide. (Zarontin)

> > >

> > > Why not go fill the Rx and give it a try?

> > >

> > > How can you rationally decide whether to medicate him or not

> > without at least giving it a

> > > try?

> > >

> > > > The first neurologist was against medicating my son at such

a

> > young

> > > > age, unless the seizures became problematic.

> > > >

> > > > The most recent neurologist (3rd one) discussed medications,

but

> > she

> > > > also calmed my fears that a developmental pediatrician said

his

> > type

> > > > of seizures unmedicated could go into status epilepticus.

She

> > said

> > > > if they start to get worse, ie, his chin starts to hit the

> > table,

> > > > call me. Or, call when/if you decide to medicate. In no way

> > seemed

> > > > alarmed that at this time we don't want to medicate.

> > > >

> > > > So, in all this, none of them has said that they would cause

> > brain

> > > > damage. Of course, always having my son's best interest at

> > heart, I

> > > > would be really interested to see what you could provide to

the

> > > > contrary.

> > > >

> > > > I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

> > > > medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no

> > > > guarantee of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have

to

> > > > suffer the side effects, the ones we can see and hear about

such

> > as:

> > > > sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness,

nausea,

> > to

> > > > name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use

causing

> > > > liver and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

> >

> > > > group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-

> > seizure

> > > > meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

> > > > reading that there have not been studies on the long term

> > effects of

> > > > absence anti-seizure meds on children.

> > >

> > > There haven't been studies of the long term effects of most

thing

> > on most groups of

> > > people. However since these meds are typically taken for long

> > periods of time, and

> > > absence has onset in childhood, there is an enormous amount of

> > experience with using

> > > these medications in children. Studies are no real substitute

for

> > experience.

> > >

> > > > It's just a tough, tough call to make. The way I see it,

> > chelation

> > > > could be beneficial, but risky. Anti-seizure meds could be

> > both,

> > > > also. We don't like seeing him have these seizures. It's

very

> > > > hard on us. Not to mention how they probably make him feel,

and

> > > > function. We realize we may have to go down that road, as

much

> > as

> > > > we hate to, of medicating him, in the HOPE that the

medication

> > will

> > > > stop them. Again, I am aware that it may not, after

stressful

> > > > months of trying different ones.

> > >

> > > Why not try them? Then you'll know if they are going to work

or

> > not and won't have to

> > > wonder about that. If they don't work you can always stop

them.

> > If the side effects are

> > > intolerable you can always stop them.

> > >

> > > > Another point on chelation while on meds is that some, if

not

> > all,

> > > > deplete certain minerals.

> > >

> > > Chelating properly does not deplete any minerals.

> > >

> > > > That could be very difficult having meds

> > > > and chelation agent depleting minerals. Could the chelation

> > > > interfere in some way with the meds, too?

> > >

> > > No.

> > >

> > > > Or vice versa?

> > >

> > > No.

> > >

> > > > How would

> > > > we know which is med reaction or chelation reaction?

> > >

> > > By introducing the meds and chelation at separate times.

> > >

> > > >These are also

> > > > some obstacles I have with regard to the meds, to starting

them

> > > > prior to chelation.

> > > >

> > > > Again, I appreciate your comments, and I take them to heart.

> > > >

> > > > Kind regards,

> > > > Cyn

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> Win a MacBook Air or iPod touch with 7.

http://au.docs./homepageset

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > > > >

> > > > > Andy,

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you for your comments. I actually have your " Amalgam

> > > Illness "

> > > > > book, and am glad I found it. Also, this question of whether

> or

> > > not

> > > > > to medicate our son for his seizures is a huge question

> around

> > > > > here, and I appreciate your opinion.

> > > > >

> > > > > Would you be able to please forward any links or provide

> names

> > > of

> > > > > studies or books that share your opinion that unmedicated

> > > > > (particularly absence) seizures cause irreverisible,

> permanment,

> > > and

> > > > > lasting brain damage?

> > > >

> > > > All standard neurology textbooks and probably some more

> general

> > > textbooks as wel.

> > > >

> > > > This is not new, even 2,500 years ago, Hippocates

> said " seizures

> > > beget seizures. " As

> > > > epileptics remain unmedicated and continue to have more

> seizures,

> > > their brains get used

> > > > to doing this, seizure frequency often increases, and they

> become

> > > progressively more

> > > > difficult to control with medication.

> > > >

> > > > > That's a very scary statement, and it

> > > > > contradicts what I have read in a book called " Epilepsy

> Patient

> > > and

> > > > > Family Guide, 2nd Edition " by Orrin Devinsky, MD.

> > > > > Page 6, under the heading: 'Seizures Do Not Cause Brain

> > > Damage,' he

> > > > > goes into more detail.

> > > > >

> > > > > We have also taken our son to 3 neurologists, and have asked

> one

> > > of

> > > > > them point blank if not medicating our son would cause brain

> > > damage,

> > > > > and his answer was no. He was the second neurologist to see

> our

> > > > > son. He prescribed Ethosuximide. (Zarontin)

> > > >

> > > > Why not go fill the Rx and give it a try?

> > > >

> > > > How can you rationally decide whether to medicate him or not

> > > without at least giving it a

> > > > try?

> > > >

> > > > > The first neurologist was against medicating my son at such

> a

> > > young

> > > > > age, unless the seizures became problematic.

> > > > >

> > > > > The most recent neurologist (3rd one) discussed medications,

> but

> > > she

> > > > > also calmed my fears that a developmental pediatrician said

> his

> > > type

> > > > > of seizures unmedicated could go into status epilepticus.

> She

> > > said

> > > > > if they start to get worse, ie, his chin starts to hit the

> > > table,

> > > > > call me. Or, call when/if you decide to medicate. In no way

> > > seemed

> > > > > alarmed that at this time we don't want to medicate.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, in all this, none of them has said that they would cause

> > > brain

> > > > > damage. Of course, always having my son's best interest at

> > > heart, I

> > > > > would be really interested to see what you could provide to

> the

> > > > > contrary.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am just so scared to go down that road of medication. Each

> > > > > medication you mentioned has terrible side effects, with no

> > > > > guarantee of stopping the seizures. I don't want him to have

> to

> > > > > suffer the side effects, the ones we can see and hear about

> such

> > > as:

> > > > > sedation, drooling, stomach ache, diarrhea, dizziness,

> nausea,

> > > to

> > > > > name just a few. Not to mention possible long term use

> causing

> > > > > liver and/or kidney damage. Also, right now on the Epilepsy

> > >

> > > > > group, they are discussing the terrible effects of the anti-

> > > seizure

> > > > > meds on their teeth, cracking and so forth. Plus, I remember

> > > > > reading that there have not been studies on the long term

> > > effects of

> > > > > absence anti-seizure meds on children.

> > > >

> > > > There haven't been studies of the long term effects of most

> thing

> > > on most groups of

> > > > people. However since these meds are typically taken for long

> > > periods of time, and

> > > > absence has onset in childhood, there is an enormous amount of

> > > experience with using

> > > > these medications in children. Studies are no real substitute

> for

> > > experience.

> > > >

> > > > > It's just a tough, tough call to make. The way I see it,

> > > chelation

> > > > > could be beneficial, but risky. Anti-seizure meds could be

> > > both,

> > > > > also. We don't like seeing him have these seizures. It's

> very

> > > > > hard on us. Not to mention how they probably make him feel,

> and

> > > > > function. We realize we may have to go down that road, as

> much

> > > as

> > > > > we hate to, of medicating him, in the HOPE that the

> medication

> > > will

> > > > > stop them. Again, I am aware that it may not, after

> stressful

> > > > > months of trying different ones.

> > > >

> > > > Why not try them? Then you'll know if they are going to work

> or

> > > not and won't have to

> > > > wonder about that. If they don't work you can always stop

> them.

> > > If the side effects are

> > > > intolerable you can always stop them.

> > > >

> > > > > Another point on chelation while on meds is that some, if

> not

> > > all,

> > > > > deplete certain minerals.

> > > >

> > > > Chelating properly does not deplete any minerals.

> > > >

> > > > > That could be very difficult having meds

> > > > > and chelation agent depleting minerals. Could the chelation

> > > > > interfere in some way with the meds, too?

> > > >

> > > > No.

> > > >

> > > > > Or vice versa?

> > > >

> > > > No.

> > > >

> > > > > How would

> > > > > we know which is med reaction or chelation reaction?

> > > >

> > > > By introducing the meds and chelation at separate times.

> > > >

> > > > >These are also

> > > > > some obstacles I have with regard to the meds, to starting

> them

> > > > > prior to chelation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, I appreciate your comments, and I take them to heart.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kind regards,

> > > > > Cyn

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Win a MacBook Air or iPod touch with 7.

> http://au.docs./homepageset

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

It's unfortunate you feel other modalities do not work for epilepsy

and seizures. Acupuncture, cranial sacral, TCM and yes homeopathy all

have cured cases. My point was meds are not the only choice in

reference to this person who was struggling with that issue. It may

have been good to mention other possibilities rather than berate her

perhaps. But I suppose first do some digging and come to know they're

proven viability.

Best to you,

Liz

>

> I'll respond to a bunch of materal on this subject here.

>

> It is true AED's suck, uncontrolled epilepsy sucks more, there

really are no good choices

> here and it is ludicrious to think homeopathy has any chance of helping.

>

> In other areas the Rx meds are useless and other approaches work

great, including

> properly prescribed homeopathics.

>

> It's important to try to understand what is going on and what the

real choices are for a

> given issue, which is unfortunately made very difficult by the

irresponsible advocacy that

> most pseudoprofessionals offer in place of legitimate advice about

what works and what

> doesn't for a given problem. E. g. homeopaths choose to be as

irresponsible as MD's in

> pretending what THEY do is useful for everything, or an appropriate

choice. Similarly for

> naturopaths, many chiropractors, etc.

>

> The best I've been able to figure is that with epileptic seizures

>

> 1. It is important to control them ASAP in most cases,

>

> 2. Most of the choices that have any hope of helping are Rx meds.

>

> 3. All the meds suck.

>

> 4. The meds tend to be Rx'd fairly irresponsibly.

>

> 5. Most other factors (diets other than Atkins/keto, etc.) have a

modest effect and most

> people aren't just on the edge where these interventions alone will

do it, though they often

> help.

>

> 6. A lot of fear (in both the patients and parents of them) goes

along with seizures.

>

> 7. Often nothing works particularly well.

>

> Given this there is no real alternative to getting on with trying

things.

>

> My comment about psychiatric care was specifically directed at

discussion I could

> reasonably interpret as meaning the mother was unable to actually

try anything due to

> being frightened by something she found about more or less every

intervention available.

>

> This is especially true since even if you find only accurate

information (a legitimate

> description of less than 1% of what you'll find on the internet)

there will be something

> scary about every possible intervention that has any hope of

working. Decisionmaking

> isn't going to be easy, fear or no fear. Decisions still have to be

made and action taken.

>

> I hope the mother will forgive me for being so blunt, but the health

and future prospects

> of her child are much more important than whether she gets upset

that I didn't find a way

> to sugar coat what I had to say.

>

> Andy

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > I'll respond to a bunch of materal on this subject here.

> >

> > It is true AED's suck, uncontrolled epilepsy sucks more, there

> really are no good choices

> > here and it is ludicrious to think homeopathy has any chance of helping.

> >

> > In other areas the Rx meds are useless and other approaches work

> great, including

> > properly prescribed homeopathics.

> >

> > It's important to try to understand what is going on and what the

> real choices are for a

> > given issue, which is unfortunately made very difficult by the

> irresponsible advocacy that

> > most pseudoprofessionals offer in place of legitimate advice about

> what works and what

> > doesn't for a given problem. E. g. homeopaths choose to be as

> irresponsible as MD's in

> > pretending what THEY do is useful for everything, or an appropriate

> choice. Similarly for

> > naturopaths, many chiropractors, etc.

> >

> > The best I've been able to figure is that with epileptic seizures

> >

> > 1. It is important to control them ASAP in most cases,

> >

> > 2. Most of the choices that have any hope of helping are Rx meds.

> >

> > 3. All the meds suck.

> >

> > 4. The meds tend to be Rx'd fairly irresponsibly.

> >

> > 5. Most other factors (diets other than Atkins/keto, etc.) have a

> modest effect and most

> > people aren't just on the edge where these interventions alone will

> do it, though they often

> > help.

> >

> > 6. A lot of fear (in both the patients and parents of them) goes

> along with seizures.

> >

> > 7. Often nothing works particularly well.

> >

> > Given this there is no real alternative to getting on with trying

> things.

> >

> > My comment about psychiatric care was specifically directed at

> discussion I could

> > reasonably interpret as meaning the mother was unable to actually

> try anything due to

> > being frightened by something she found about more or less every

> intervention available.

> >

> > This is especially true since even if you find only accurate

> information (a legitimate

> > description of less than 1% of what you'll find on the internet)

> there will be something

> > scary about every possible intervention that has any hope of

> working. Decisionmaking

> > isn't going to be easy, fear or no fear. Decisions still have to be

> made and action taken.

> >

> > I hope the mother will forgive me for being so blunt, but the health

> and future prospects

> > of her child are much more important than whether she gets upset

> that I didn't find a way

> > to sugar coat what I had to say.

> >

> > Andy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for this dialogue. I would not have enough time to devote

to listing case per case examples in this many fields, perhaps some

day. It does not take very much for a person needing such help to

look into them and speak to respective practitioners to gather this.

If there are choices that are not poisonous, it is sure good to

investigate...especially if there is any chance at all to resolve

rather than only control symptoms in the long-term. I think we agree

on wanting help for this person, that is what matters most.

Be well,

Liz

> > >

> > > I'll respond to a bunch of materal on this subject here.

> > >

> > > It is true AED's suck, uncontrolled epilepsy sucks more, there

> > really are no good choices

> > > here and it is ludicrious to think homeopathy has any chance of

helping.

> > >

> > > In other areas the Rx meds are useless and other approaches work

> > great, including

> > > properly prescribed homeopathics.

> > >

> > > It's important to try to understand what is going on and what

the

> > real choices are for a

> > > given issue, which is unfortunately made very difficult by the

> > irresponsible advocacy that

> > > most pseudoprofessionals offer in place of legitimate advice

about

> > what works and what

> > > doesn't for a given problem. E. g. homeopaths choose to be as

> > irresponsible as MD's in

> > > pretending what THEY do is useful for everything, or an

appropriate

> > choice. Similarly for

> > > naturopaths, many chiropractors, etc.

> > >

> > > The best I've been able to figure is that with epileptic

seizures

> > >

> > > 1. It is important to control them ASAP in most cases,

> > >

> > > 2. Most of the choices that have any hope of helping are Rx

meds.

> > >

> > > 3. All the meds suck.

> > >

> > > 4. The meds tend to be Rx'd fairly irresponsibly.

> > >

> > > 5. Most other factors (diets other than Atkins/keto, etc.) have

a

> > modest effect and most

> > > people aren't just on the edge where these interventions alone

will

> > do it, though they often

> > > help.

> > >

> > > 6. A lot of fear (in both the patients and parents of them) goes

> > along with seizures.

> > >

> > > 7. Often nothing works particularly well.

> > >

> > > Given this there is no real alternative to getting on with

trying

> > things.

> > >

> > > My comment about psychiatric care was specifically directed at

> > discussion I could

> > > reasonably interpret as meaning the mother was unable to

actually

> > try anything due to

> > > being frightened by something she found about more or less every

> > intervention available.

> > >

> > > This is especially true since even if you find only accurate

> > information (a legitimate

> > > description of less than 1% of what you'll find on the internet)

> > there will be something

> > > scary about every possible intervention that has any hope of

> > working. Decisionmaking

> > > isn't going to be easy, fear or no fear. Decisions still have

to be

> > made and action taken.

> > >

> > > I hope the mother will forgive me for being so blunt, but the

health

> > and future prospects

> > > of her child are much more important than whether she gets upset

> > that I didn't find a way

> > > to sugar coat what I had to say.

> > >

> > > Andy

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > > >

> > > > I'll respond to a bunch of materal on this subject here.

> > > >

> > > > It is true AED's suck, uncontrolled epilepsy sucks more, there

> > > really are no good choices

> > > > here and it is ludicrious to think homeopathy has any chance of

> helping.

> > > >

> > > > In other areas the Rx meds are useless and other approaches work

> > > great, including

> > > > properly prescribed homeopathics.

> > > >

> > > > It's important to try to understand what is going on and what

> the

> > > real choices are for a

> > > > given issue, which is unfortunately made very difficult by the

> > > irresponsible advocacy that

> > > > most pseudoprofessionals offer in place of legitimate advice

> about

> > > what works and what

> > > > doesn't for a given problem. E. g. homeopaths choose to be as

> > > irresponsible as MD's in

> > > > pretending what THEY do is useful for everything, or an

> appropriate

> > > choice. Similarly for

> > > > naturopaths, many chiropractors, etc.

> > > >

> > > > The best I've been able to figure is that with epileptic

> seizures

> > > >

> > > > 1. It is important to control them ASAP in most cases,

> > > >

> > > > 2. Most of the choices that have any hope of helping are Rx

> meds.

> > > >

> > > > 3. All the meds suck.

> > > >

> > > > 4. The meds tend to be Rx'd fairly irresponsibly.

> > > >

> > > > 5. Most other factors (diets other than Atkins/keto, etc.) have

> a

> > > modest effect and most

> > > > people aren't just on the edge where these interventions alone

> will

> > > do it, though they often

> > > > help.

> > > >

> > > > 6. A lot of fear (in both the patients and parents of them) goes

> > > along with seizures.

> > > >

> > > > 7. Often nothing works particularly well.

> > > >

> > > > Given this there is no real alternative to getting on with

> trying

> > > things.

> > > >

> > > > My comment about psychiatric care was specifically directed at

> > > discussion I could

> > > > reasonably interpret as meaning the mother was unable to

> actually

> > > try anything due to

> > > > being frightened by something she found about more or less every

> > > intervention available.

> > > >

> > > > This is especially true since even if you find only accurate

> > > information (a legitimate

> > > > description of less than 1% of what you'll find on the internet)

> > > there will be something

> > > > scary about every possible intervention that has any hope of

> > > working. Decisionmaking

> > > > isn't going to be easy, fear or no fear. Decisions still have

> to be

> > > made and action taken.

> > > >

> > > > I hope the mother will forgive me for being so blunt, but the

> health

> > > and future prospects

> > > > of her child are much more important than whether she gets upset

> > > that I didn't find a way

> > > > to sugar coat what I had to say.

> > > >

> > > > Andy

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

.....at least he finally admits the drugs suck!

From: Brandegee <lightspirals@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Chelating with Seizures - Andy

Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 1:47 AM

It's unfortunate you feel other modalities do not work for epilepsy

and seizures. Acupuncture, cranial sacral, TCM and yes homeopathy all

have cured cases. My point was meds are not the only choice in

reference to this person who was struggling with that issue. It may

have been good to mention other possibilities rather than berate her

perhaps. But I suppose first do some digging and come to know they're

proven viability.

Best to you,

Liz

>

> I'll respond to a bunch of materal on this subject here.

>

> It is true AED's suck, uncontrolled epilepsy sucks more, there

really are no good choices

> here and it is ludicrious to think homeopathy has any chance of helping.

>

> In other areas the Rx meds are useless and other approaches work

great, including

> properly prescribed homeopathics.

>

> It's important to try to understand what is going on and what the

real choices are for a

> given issue, which is unfortunately made very difficult by the

irresponsible advocacy that

> most pseudoprofessionals offer in place of legitimate advice about

what works and what

> doesn't for a given problem. E. g. homeopaths choose to be as

irresponsible as MD's in

> pretending what THEY do is useful for everything, or an appropriate

choice. Similarly for

> naturopaths, many chiropractors, etc.

>

> The best I've been able to figure is that with epileptic seizures

>

> 1. It is important to control them ASAP in most cases,

>

> 2. Most of the choices that have any hope of helping are Rx meds.

>

> 3. All the meds suck.

>

> 4. The meds tend to be Rx'd fairly irresponsibly.

>

> 5. Most other factors (diets other than Atkins/keto, etc.) have a

modest effect and most

> people aren't just on the edge where these interventions alone will

do it, though they often

> help.

>

> 6. A lot of fear (in both the patients and parents of them) goes

along with seizures.

>

> 7. Often nothing works particularly well.

>

> Given this there is no real alternative to getting on with trying

things.

>

> My comment about psychiatric care was specifically directed at

discussion I could

> reasonably interpret as meaning the mother was unable to actually

try anything due to

> being frightened by something she found about more or less every

intervention available.

>

> This is especially true since even if you find only accurate

information (a legitimate

> description of less than 1% of what you'll find on the internet)

there will be something

> scary about every possible intervention that has any hope of

working. Decisionmaking

> isn't going to be easy, fear or no fear. Decisions still have to be

made and action taken.

>

> I hope the mother will forgive me for being so blunt, but the health

and future prospects

> of her child are much more important than whether she gets upset

that I didn't find a way

> to sugar coat what I had to say.

>

> Andy

>

[Guest guest]

> It's unfortunate you feel other modalities do not work for epilepsy

> and seizures.

It isn't a feeling, it is the best factual information I have.

> Acupuncture, cranial sacral, TCM and yes homeopathy all

> have cured cases.

I was asking for something a little more credible than repeated vague and

general

assertions.

> My point was meds are not the only choice in

> reference to this person who was struggling with that issue.

I didn't hold them out as the only choice, either. I included the Atkins diet

since unlike the

above that has some hope of working.

The only rational choice involves choosing SOMETHING to try that actually has

some hope

of working, trying it for an adequate but brief period of time, and if it

doesn't work or has

unacceptable side effects, moving on to the next on the list.

> It may

> have been good to mention other possibilities rather than berate her

> perhaps. But I suppose first do some digging and come to know they're

> proven viability.

I already did the digging. I gave the viable options. I also tried to provide

motivation so

she would act before the kid has too much subtle but disabling brain damage.

Andy

[Guest guest]

I'll repeat this for anyone who didn't read it. My daughter had what was

either petit mal or absence seizures for years. We were patterning during four

years of that time (which does great things for the brain, although not at

all specifically for epilepsy). We also became vegan; before that she ate

animal products, but no junk food at all. At no time did they worsen. In

addition she continued to progress beautifully.

They disappeared when we began to study Christian Science and use prayer.

Once fear is gone, the problem is gone.

Sincerely,

Francine

**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)