Absorption

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/30/00 3:25:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,

onelist writes:

> Patti:] I've been wondering a lot lately about absorption. I'm wondering

> if we should look into administering some supplements transdermally. I've

> been thinking about this alot since my friend with MS has had such a

> marvelous response to Procarin. Procarin is mostly just histamine, but

> delivered transdermally. From what I can tell MSers do not respond to oral

> histamine, but many respond beautifully when it is delivered transdermally

> (Procarin).

Patti, I couldn't agree with you more on the issue of absorption. I just

don't think

you can go into the health food store and get transdermal multivitamins.

Unless you can think of something better, I think the best idea is what

someone

recently posted about doing an Ultraclear/juice fast. This way the intestinal

tract is cleaned out and then I presume that you re-introduce favorable gut

flora. Maybe rather than thinking transdermal, we start thinking about GI

tract health. I know everyone is thinking, " well I can't just drink stuff

for 3-4 days,

I need something to eat. " well, my response would be that " is a 3-4 day

strictly

restricted diet worth it to get substantially better? " I did a ONE WEEK juice

fast after reading Akers Website and that was the beginning of a

major upswing in my health. Maybe if after the fast I would have had

Immunopro

to take, I would be back to 90% instead of 70% or so.

If anyone missed my post, DW will have Immunopro available for sale around

$31.

He wants (at this point) everyone to report back to him after one month to

give

their results. This might be something we want to do. If we can get 50

people

on this list to try Immunopro (the exact same product) and note changes in

health, we can have our own little study and it will just cost us $31 apiece.

We also have the option of having a Onelist member get it at wholesale and

distribute it to the group.

Mike

[Guest guest]

I've found that the kind of vitamin you take makes a huge difference in my

case. I started out trying the vitamins at rite aid and they didnt do

anything. then I tried the ones at the nutrition store and those have

essentially stopped the long term progression of my illness; so they're not

making me better but they're stopping me from getting worse. The main

difference i saw is that good multi-vitamins will have very high

concentrations of the important ones-C,A,E, the B vitamins, etc.; while the

cheaper brands at drug stores will typically have the same amount of all the

vitamins; even though as CFIDS patients we need much higher doses of the

important ones than the recomended FDA daily amounts.

[Guest guest]

>From: MCamp10139@...

>

>Patti, I couldn't agree with you more on the issue of absorption. I just

>don't think

>you can go into the health food store and get transdermal multivitamins.

>Unless you can think of something better,

[MZ]What about liquid vitamins taken like the whey (30 minutes before food on a

non-acidic empty stomach)?

> I think the best idea is what

>someone

>recently posted about doing an Ultraclear/juice fast.

[MZ]A warning was posted a few months ago about this product. UltarClear uses

glutathione which is in serious shortage and can cause a relapse. Not that the

product was bad, but valid for people without an immune dysfunction wanting to

detox.

> This way the intestinal

>tract is cleaned out and then I presume that you re-introduce favorable gut

>flora. Maybe rather than thinking transdermal, we start thinking about GI

>tract health.

[MZ] I also agree. I recently did a parasite cleanse (the talk on this list

about parasites gave me the willies!) Also, what I have gotten from Konlee's

site recently - in little blurbs below. The intenstines are where 60% of our

immunity defenses are located - the frontline.

Probiotics to replenish the friendly bacteria get the instestinal ph where it is

supposed to be.

Bifidobacterium Longum (Bifa-15) is the only probiotic that produces acetic

acid (vinegar). We should have 1 billion twice a day (how's that for dosage!)

Fiber keeps the intestinal tract in good shape. There are 7 different kinds of

fiber. We should have around 30 grams of fiber each day. Oat bran then rice

bran are highest in sterinols which are helpful for pain and inflammation.

These 2 are water soluable (they can enter the bloodstream) where psyllium husks

are not soluable. We need both kind each day.

Enemas pull toxins out. Coffee enemas stimulate the liver and gall bladder to

DUMP toxins into the intestines. This eases detoxing through bloodstream.

Vinegar enemas make the environment toxic to parasites.

The size, sinkability, circumference, color of the stool show the current

condition of the intestine.

Since I already started this - I might as well finish it.

From Konlee - http://www.execpc.com/~keephope/report19.html Actually this whole

newsletter is about gut health.

Healthy ph in intestine: stools are large diameter 1- 1.5 inches, light brown

in color, no odor, floats, form: soft, formed round but firm

Unhealthy intestines: stools are small diameter, .25 - .5 inches, dark brown

(too much bile) or yellow (liver problems), have odor, sinkers, form: mud-like

from Mark Konlee: http://www.execpc.com/~keephope/v2000.html

When the colon is toxic, it is because harmful bacteria that produce scores of

toxins have multiplied in great numbers. These toxins are absorbed from the

large intestines and go the liver to be broken down. The toxic overload on the

liver leads to a depletion of Glutathione levels that then impairs cell-mediated

immune function. The toxins also impair the ability of the liver to produce

enzymes needed for metabolic functions throughout the body. The immediate result

is fatigue and eventually chronic fatigue. The depleted Glutathione levels

reduce the ability of the liver to remove heavy metals and more stress is placed

on other organs like the adrenal glands and kidneys. In a sequence of events,

toxins (poisons) in the large intestines began to adversely affect the entire

person.

Some of the harmful bacteria(1) in a toxic colon have been identified as the

fungal (hyphaeated) form of Candida Albicans, clostridium, e-coli, staph and

strep strains. Other infections of the gastrointestinal tract that have been

identified include HIV, HHV-6, herpes simplex, hepatitis B, C and D, CMV, EBV,

chlamydiae, shigella, salmonella, campylobacter, mycobacteria, parasites,

giardia, cryptosporidium, isopora, amoeba and strongyloides (2).

Just one or more of certain strains of unfriendly flora can produce a variety of

toxins including amines, ammonia, skatol, hydrogen sulfide, histamine, indole,

phenol and cadaverin (3). The liver has the job of breaking down these toxins

and if the liver function is impaired, the toxins circulate and can cause

neurological problems. Candidiasis increases Interluken 6 levels, a cytokine

that is overproduced in HIV infection, CFIDS and cancer and contributes to the

cytokine shift from TH1 to the less effective TH2 immune response.

A toxic colon by contributing to the depletion of Glutathione levels increases

the activity of free radicals and oxidative stress that further damages cells

and body organs. Unfriendly flora also move the pH of the colon in an alkaline

direction creating an environment more favorable to their own survival. No

complete or sustained recovery from chronic immune dysfunction is possible

without restoring a healthy colon. This is the point of beginning, the

foundation for rebuilding health.

end of excerpt - copied this whole thing in because it deals with the threads

over the last month - TH1/TH2, intestinal ph, harmful bacteria, etc.)

[MZ] My question - do juice fasts deplete glutathione levels?

Sorry this was kinda long.

Marty Z.

martyz@...

[Guest guest]

From: MCamp10139@...

Patti, I couldn't agree with you more on the issue of absorption. I just

don't think

you can go into the health food store and get transdermal multivitamins.

[Patti:] You can't. But the technology can't be that difficult. We can

buy the pure powders, we just need to know what to mix it with to carry it

across the skin. I'm pretty sure DMSO would work, but not sure I want to

try that. There must be other things to use that are commonly available.

Unless you can think of something better, I think the best idea is what

someone

recently posted about doing an Ultraclear/juice fast.

[Patti:] That might have been me. I've done a fair amount of juice fasting

in the last 5 years and I usually use ultraclear PLUS.

This way the intestinal

tract is cleaned out and then I presume that you re-introduce favorable gut

flora.

[Patti:] Yes. But for me they won't " take " . As soon as I resume eating,

the beneficial guys all die off.

Maybe rather than thinking transdermal, we start thinking about GI

tract health.

[Patti:] How about both?

I know everyone is thinking, " well I can't just drink stuff

for 3-4 days,

I need something to eat. " well, my response would be that " is a 3-4 day

strictly

restricted diet worth it to get substantially better? "

[Patti:] For ME nothing less than a 5-6 day fast will show any improvement

at all. I usually do 7 - 9 days. After the first 2 days, it is really not

that difficult at all. I used to reap enormous benefits from juice fasting.

I would have been unable to work 5 years ago if it wasn't for fasting. The

results of my juice fasting was so well known to my boss and coworkers that

they would notice when I needed another one. As I've mentioned before, a

juice fast of about a week would remove about 70% of my symptoms. It also

seemed that the results lasted a bit longer after each fast. However, each

time the results would degrade over time (my results lasted lots longer

after I removed all wheat products from my diet) However during the last 2

fasts I did, I got virtually no discernable benefit. My feeling is that

something else changed, maybe something else has been damaged. I don't

know. I intend to do another fast after I stabilise on HGH and heparin.

Fasting can be a real miracle worker, but for me it has definitely not been

a cure, and for some reason has stopped giving the benefits I used to get.

Patti

--

[Guest guest]

>Patti, I couldn't agree with you more on the issue of absorption. I just

>don't think

>you can go into the health food store and get transdermal multivitamins.

I am trying liquid anything I can get now as I understand liquids are

absorbed easier. For ex, I have liquid carnitine. However, agree with you

and Patti here.

>Unless you can think of something better, I think the best idea is what

>someone

>recently posted about doing an Ultraclear/juice fast. (SNIP) thinking about GI

>tract health. I know everyone is thinking, " well I can't just drink stuff

>for 3-4 days,

>I need something to eat. " well, my response would be that " is a 3-4 day

>strictly

>restricted diet worth it to get substantially better? "

If your metabolism and gut are relatively normal. With the ulcers I would

be in pain on only juice, and with hypoglecemia (low blood sugar) I would be

unconscious! I would have to be more moderate here!

I did a ONE WEEK juice

>fast after reading Akers Website and that was the beginning of a

>major upswing in my health.

I don't knock success!

>

>If anyone missed my post, DW will have Immunopro available for sale around

>$31.

>He wants (at this point) everyone to report back to him after one month to

>give

>their results. This might be something we want to do.

There are new people. Could your repost a URL to DW and what DW stands for?

thanks. I am so lost in mail myself that I am being lazy here.

f we can get 50

>people

>on this list to try Immunopro (the exact same product) and note changes in

>health, we can have our own little study and it will just cost us $31 apiece.

>We also have the option of having a Onelist member get it at wholesale and

>distribute it to the group.

Are there any takers? $31 is a lot better than up to $100....

Christie

[Guest guest]

>

>If your metabolism and gut are relatively normal. With the ulcers I would

>be in pain on only juice, and with hypoglecemia (low blood sugar) I would

be

>unconscious! I would have to be more moderate here!

>

Hi, I do not know what to do about ulcers but as for hypoglycemia, which is

my problem too, the fresh juice is ok. They raise your blood sugar very

quickly. If I forget to drink one within an hour after waking up, I feel

nauseated and weak. This feeling disappears immediately after having a glass

of juice. I am also considering pure glucose. I realized that instant

capuccino brings a relief and the only thing in it that could help is

glucose. But want to consult my dr. first.

Stania

[Guest guest]

" .....Fiber keeps the intestinal tract in good shape. There are 7 different

kinds of fiber. We should have around 30 grams of fiber each day. Oat bran then

rice bran are highest in sterinols which are helpful for pain and inflammation.

These 2 are water soluable (they can enter the bloodstream) where psyllium husks

are not soluable. We need both kind each day.... "

I agree. I made a good experience with fiber. What has worked for me:

1. Juice fasting followed by

2. Sugar, milk and gluten free diet, low carb, high protein plus

3. Fiber 30g every day ( i use special Czech formula - all necessary types

of fiber, friendly bacteria, vitamins and minerals - they are extremely

important, if they are not included, you become quickly depleted in them),

liquid mixture of vitamins and minerals and

liquid aminoacids (they raise my energy level significantly, they are whey

based - I do not know details but I guess it could be regarded as czech variant

of Immunocal)

I also take Wobenzym, Piracetam and thyroid supplementation

Before I started eating fiber, no vitamin supplement had effect on me. It's

different now.

This regimen helped a lot but it is not a cure.

" .....Enemas pull toxins out. Coffee enemas stimulate the liver and gall

bladder to DUMP toxins into the intestines. This eases detoxing through

bloodstream. Vinegar enemas make the environment toxic to parasites.... "

I think enemas are extremely important during fasting. It is recommended to

make them every day of the fast. If you don't, the gut release toxins back into

your body.

Just my 2cents

Stania

[Guest guest]

>Hi, I do not know what to do about ulcers but as for hypoglycemia, which is

>my problem too, the fresh juice is ok. They raise your blood sugar very

>quickly. If I forget to drink one within an hour after waking up, I feel

>nauseated and weak. This feeling disappears immediately after having a glass

>of juice. I am also considering pure glucose. I realized that instant

>capuccino brings a relief and the only thing in it that could help is

>glucose. But want to consult my dr. first.

>Stania

>

Hi,

If I eat sugar, carbs I might get a lift but then crash comes quickly. This

is shown objectivley on glucose tolerance tests in which sugar went up in

half hour to about 120 and down in 30's in next half hour. I never regained

a normal sugar level of 80. Was hospitalized and insulin levels were normal

during 2nd test but had same reaction and I was to out of it to find my way

to restroom - about 6 ft from by bed and had to be guided. I was taken very

seriously after that - no all in the head stuff! However, no one could

explain these reactions. BUt I was able to function with small meals of

protein - esp meat, fish and poultry - not veggie combos of protein.

Now I learn that this metabolic problem can be part of a Mito disease, and

just hope in my case it isn't!

It is so important for us to remember we react individually to various

foods, meds, treatments, etc. For so long Docs, family, friends have tried

to force me into a one approach fits all tx's and these just don't work for

me and for many of us.

However, whatever works for any given person should probably be persued - I

don't knock success!

Take care,

CHristie

[Guest guest]

One thing that confuses me about the absorption issue is that CFSers report

being hyper-sensitive to drugs, supplements, foods, and alcohol yet they also

buy into the absorption issue as a major

problem -- especially as it relates to the leaky gut hypothesis. I take nystatin

(once a day) so I am not immune from this perception. However, many CFSers

report at most modest help from the leaky

gut factor.

I understand the sugar/glucose issue is a separate issue. And I also understand

that some supplements are manufactured in away that anyone would have trouble

getting much benefit from them. So I

will still take my nystatin but I will take the leaky gut theory with a grain of

sodium.

Steve

[Guest guest]

>From: " C.Tab. " <tab@...>

>

>If I eat sugar, carbs I might get a lift but then crash comes quickly.

This

>is shown objectivley on glucose tolerance tests in which sugar went up in

>half hour to about 120 and down in 30's in next half hour. I never

regained

>a normal sugar level of 80. Was hospitalized and insulin levels were

normal

>during 2nd test but had same reaction and I was to out of it to find my way

>to restroom - about 6 ft from by bed and had to be guided. I was taken

very

>seriously after that - no all in the head stuff! However, no one could

>explain these reactions.

Yes, I see. No high carb food for me as well. I crash almost imediately (I

do not faint, I feel just very exhausted and must go to bed for an hour at

least). I think only a moderate amount of fructose work. I was told it

doesn't require any insuline. Neither glucose. In case of such severe

problems one shouldn't experiment without dr's supervision.

BUt I was able to function with small meals of

>protein - esp meat, fish and poultry - not veggie combos of protein.

The same experience here!

>It is so important for us to remember we react individually to various

>foods, meds, treatments, etc. For so long Docs, family, friends have tried

>to force me into a one approach fits all tx's and these just don't work

for

>me and for many of us.

>However, whatever works for any given person should probably be persued - I

>don't knock success!

Very true, Christie

Take care

Stania

[Guest guest]

My understanding is that the only thing that gets absorbed in the stomach is

water. Everything nutritive gets absorbed farther down the line.

S

Re: absorbtion

Hi Annie Okie,

Okay, my light bulb's not too bright tonight either, but I think

digestion starts in the stomach and then the fat/calories actually

get absorbed in the intestines (small & large).

Bern

TX

MGB 7/24/00

248/159

> I guess I'm not too bright today but, I have a question. Where are

> the calories and fat asborbed-in the stomach or the intestines?? I

> know we get a smaller stomach and a measure of small intestines

> bypassed, so what's the answer?? Just sign me---Waiting for the

light

> bulb to come on. Ann in Oklahoma. MGB 3-21-00 263/170-150ish

[Guest guest]

What about absorbtion of vitamins through drinks like Ensure? Do those get

absorbed?

ÿ

Robyn

[Guest guest]

Robyn thank you I have not even thought of that. I will look into it. I know

slimfast has alot of really good things in it.

thank you

Re: [ ] Absorption

What about absorbtion of vitamins through drinks like Ensure? Do those get

absorbed?

ÿ

Robyn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/13/2004 7:46:43 AM Central Standard Time,

mjs93311@... writes:

Okay, what I mean is this: we do not sit around holding food in our

cheeks to absorb it, right? Simple fats are short chain

triglycerides like the kind they put in TPN.

Marta

__________________________________________

Yeah, i see what you mean, but it only takes seconds if the person is not too

low.....And as a former RNYer who suffered way too many dumping spells, There

has to be some sort of absorption because when I got sic a small piece of

candy could help really fast. Of course it was a lemon drop or cinnamon disc

that

was sucked so it did stay in the cheek or mouth...

in Bama

VBG 1982 (lost from 433lbs to 270's)

VBG -RNY1996 revision(Lost from 343 to 299)

RNY-DS revision Dec 2002 -down 130 lbs (377.7 to 247.2 and still going)

BMI 39.4...No longer Morbidly obese!

Homepage address- http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/myhomepage/profile.html

Many thanks to Dr. K willing to take on a 3rd timer....LOL

[Guest guest]

I am not sure either? I am interested to know. Thanks!andreastalbot <andreastalbot@...> wrote: I had a patient who had someone tell her that only 70% of the calories she consumes are absorbed? I am unsure of this, because I am still pretty new to this area - Please enlighten me.Thanks, Talbot, RDSurgical Weight Loss Center of Utah

Start your day with - make it your home page

[Guest guest]

I am not sure either? I am interested to know. Thanks!andreastalbot <andreastalbot@...> wrote:

I had a patient who had someone tell her that only 70% of the calories she consumes are absorbed? I am unsure of this, because I am still pretty new to this area - Please enlighten me.Thanks, Talbot, RDSurgical Weight Loss Center of Utah

Start your day with - make it your home page

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

For proper absorption, you need:

1) thorough chewing

2) sufficient hydrochloric acid production (gastric juice) which is related

to chlorine intake (salt)

3) digestive enzymes

Best of Health!

Dr. Saul Pressman

Re: FIR Sauna; was: Sjogren's/lyme treatment

It wasn't Jim's program, though I was doing his program earlier. He

said he'd reduced the sauna time after some people had bad effects.

I do still have amalgams. They're about 30 yrs. old and I was planning

to get them removed, but then got sick. Testing didn't show any

mercury toxicity, but I have several fillings so it seems unlikely

that I don't have mercury stashed somewhere.

Really interesting about the electrical system of the body and sodium

depletion. I've done exactly the opposite of what you suggest

regarding salt intake. My mouth is so sore and dry that I stopped

salting my food.

I was taking a boatload of supps and am still taking quite a bit. The

clinic recommended taking them for 4 months after completing the

program. I eat a healthy diet(Weston Price) and have access to good

quality foods. I think poor absorption is a problem.

>

> oh no...

>

> this smells like jim's sauna 'program'. yes?????

>

> i've done alot of fir saunas, and i can easily see how they can

deplete you if you don't do it properly. i will only do them at

certain times, when i'm sure i will sweat alot. if i don't have alot

of sodium in me forget it i won't go near the thing.

>

> don't worship the tools, use them -- or not-- if it is not appropriate.

>

> do you still have amalgams in? i have heard potential negative

effects of fir if you still have them.

>

> try greatly increasing your sodium or salt intake-- assuming you

don't have bp issues or other sodium issues. or take a bath in heavily

salted water. or if you can handle raw dairy, raw milk and cheese is a

great source of sodium. in one of the books i read about kinesiology

it says that all the electrical systems are shut down without adequate

sodium, and thus the meridian testing will be inaccurate. with mercury

poisoning the kidneys dump too much sodium so without adequate salt

intake saunas will make this situation alot worse.

>

> mineral absorption/metabolism is very complex. imo too complex to

peg into any system or program. heavy metals can interfere with

intercellular absorption. supplements imo in the long term are not a

good way to go. best to use food and drink. first get your hcl levels

up to snuff with and of these: 1) salt 2) ginger 3) lemons/lemon juice

4) hcl tablets 5) apple cider vinegar. this will take care of

stomach's job. next find good food sources. all fresh fruit and

vegetable juices are easily as easily assimilable source of minerals.

vegetable soups, meat broths, bone broths. there are tons of ways to

get minerals in.

>

> if heavy metal poisoning is part of your problem, then as you begin

to rid yourself of the metals, the cellular mineral absorption should

start to fire up again.

>

> it goes without saying that if you are chemically sensitive your

liver needs alot of tending to.

>

> what were the supplements you were taking?

[Guest guest]

does EVERY vitamin need another vitamin for absorption. Isn't there

one vitamin that can stand alone??? Vit. C needs carnitin...Biotin

needs magnesim etc... How about Magnesium, does that need anything for

absorption?

[Guest guest]

>

> does EVERY vitamin need another vitamin for absorption.

Many of them do. Most of the time, the body has sufficient stores of

whatever the other vitamin is, so you don't have to supplement extra.

And sometimes you do.

Dana