Re: Would you sue?

[Guest guest]

To me it is not so much whether you have a right to sue or whether suing is the

right thing to do but whether it is worth it. There is enough literature out

there (including Under Our Skin) that shows that deer are only one way of

transmitting Lyme. If the camp is in nature, it would be unreasonable for them

to be expected to keep out all birds, squirrels, mice, etc.

I would talk to the owners first about just getting a more robust program in

place there -- what exactly would they need to change? Proactive dosing with

doxy when kids get a tick bite? Universal tick check by adults? Did they

withhold treatment at the appropriate time for your kids?

What I'm getting at is that New York is an endemic area. They do need to tell

people about the risk and send home info about it so parents can act proactively

if their kids come home sick, but it's hard to know what they could do about the

fact that ticks are within the camp.

It would be great to raise consciousness, but I think that a suit would settle

purely for nuisance value (cheaper to settle than to go to trial), minus

attorneys fees for you. Not sure how much money it would really amount to.

Mind you, I am SUPER sympathetic to you on the cost of medical care -- living in

my parents' basement and taking care of 2 kids with congenital lyme and husb

with late stage, while I get treated for late stage too -- but I am skeptical

about the case.

If you have a solid theory about how they were negligent in handling Lyme on

their camp property and you can prove that the negligence directly caused you

and your kids to get sick, and they don't seem to care, I guess I would sue.

Otherwise, seems like a lot of hassle all around..

My two cents.

Natasha

________________________________

From: Beth Freishtat <beth@...>

Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 6:36:57 AM

Subject: [ ] Would you sue?

My 2 and 3 year old got Lyme disease and co-infections while we were

at a summer camp in New York (I was working there and they tagged

along). I did

too, but I am covered by worker's comp. A friend who is a personal

injury attorney wants to represent us to sue the camp for not taking

more protective measures to keep the deer off the property (they run

freely throughout the camp). In fact, aside from a 5 minute talk about

Lyme, there were really no protective measures taken. I initially was

excited about the idea of a law suit in the hopes that all camps

everywhere would wake up and even if out of fear of lawsuits would

feel the need to consider building fencing or planting the shrubs deer

don't like or other smaller measures so fewer kids would get sick. But

now the lawyer is saying he would end up settling and would have money

to pay for my kids huge expenses (past, present and future) and pain

and suffering, but that he would sign something saying we could not

talk about the case. I imagine this particular camp (with @600 kids)

would still make changes and so kids would benefit, but our lawsuit

would not help others outside the camp (unless they caught word of the

lawsuit).

My question to you is, do you think it is right to sue?

What would you do in this situation?

Thanks so much,

Beth

p.s. On a side note I love this camp. Fabulous owners and good people

all the way around. But kids are getting sick there.

[Guest guest]

Based on how you describe the situation, and how you describe the owners, I

would suggest using this as an opportunity to educate the owners about the

dangers and see if they are willing to discuss things with you that they can do

differently in the future. I don't think you need to file a lawsuit to have

this type of discussion, and actually think they may be more receptive to your

suggestions without a lawsuit. There is just such a lack of understanding about

Lyme disease in general and this could be a contribution you can offer to raise

awareness.

I wish you and your kids all the best.

Patty

[ ] Would you sue?

My 2 and 3 year old got Lyme disease and co-infections while we were

at a summer camp in New York (I was working there and they tagged

along). I did

too, but I am covered by worker's comp. A friend who is a personal

injury attorney wants to represent us to sue the camp for not taking

more protective measures to keep the deer off the property (they run

freely throughout the camp). In fact, aside from a 5 minute talk about

Lyme, there were really no protective measures taken. I initially was

excited about the idea of a law suit in the hopes that all camps

everywhere would wake up and even if out of fear of lawsuits would

feel the need to consider building fencing or planting the shrubs deer

don't like or other smaller measures so fewer kids would get sick. But

now the lawyer is saying he would end up settling and would have money

to pay for my kids huge expenses (past, present and future) and pain

and suffering, but that he would sign something saying we could not

talk about the case. I imagine this particular camp (with @600 kids)

would still make changes and so kids would benefit, but our lawsuit

would not help others outside the camp (unless they caught word of the

lawsuit).

My question to you is, do you think it is right to sue?

What would you do in this situation?

Thanks so much,

Beth

p.s. On a side note I love this camp. Fabulous owners and good people

all the way around. But kids are getting sick there.

[Guest guest]

I've been curious about legal action too. Why aren't there commercials on TV

from law firms " If you've contracted Lyme. " like there are about birth

defects and undisclosed prescription drug side effects but I've even googled

things like " Lyme legal action " and not come up with anything. Why isn't

there more interest in helping Lyme victims? Is it because the CDC backs up

the physicians and so it is hard to get anywhere? Where are the

Brockovichs of Lyme???

In my case I took the tick to the Doctor the very next day after the bite in

2007 and she told me to 1) throw it away, 2) that I didn't need testing, and

3) that I didn't need treatment. I insisted on a Blot which she did but it

came back negative and she 1) never told me it was guaranteed to be negative

that early, 2) to test again in a few weeks, or anything else. I got

progressively sicker for 2 years and went to her with muscle pain and

stiffness, light headedness, heart palpitations, anxiety, bladder

infections, etc. and she never suggested retesting. By 2009 I was having

trouble with the steps and worrying about being able to drive much longer.

She sent me to a rheumatologist who said he did not think I had Lyme and

didn't even test me for it!

FINALLY I got a bulls eye rash on my leg, and by the time I went in to see

her the next day there were two small faint brown circles. She said they

couldn't be Lyme rashes because they were brown and not red. I again had to

push for the blot and she did it but she did not give me any antibiotics

while we waited. That was a crucial week when it was going virulent and

wrecking havac on me. It came back positive and she put me on Doxy for 2

weeks. I had read Burrascano's guideline's by then and went back for two

more weeks. After the Doxy she called me at home and told me that she did

not think I had Lyme any longer because my blood work indicated acute not

long standing infection. Thank God I found a Lyme doctor by then who

confirmed the blot's findings with IGeneX and told me my symptoms reflected

all the coinfections too and that I was looking at at least a 2 year

treatment. 11 months of drugs later I'm still at the beginning stages of

treatment and haven't yet gone after the cystic form.

Anyway, I was happy to see someone broach the issue of lawsuits as they seem

to be completely absent from any discussions I've seen on Lyme.

Thanks for listening!

[Guest guest]

No one is suing because the CDC and NIH stand behind the IDSA. As long as the

guidelines are more or less de rigueur for mainstream docs, there can't be a

lawsuit. The best we've gotten so far is the Attorney General of CT suing for

antitrust violations. You can't sue successfully for negligence if the doctor is

adhering to the medical standard, in this caset he IDSA guidelines. Bad, but

true. Urgh.

________________________________

From: N/A <spamneggs@...>

Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 6:50:09 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Would you sue?

I've been curious about legal action too. Why aren't there commercials on TV

from law firms " If you've contracted Lyme. " like there are about birth

defects and undisclosed prescription drug side effects but I've even googled

things like " Lyme legal action " and not come up with anything. Why isn't

there more interest in helping Lyme victims? Is it because the CDC backs up

the physicians and so it is hard to get anywhere? Where are the

Brockovichs of Lyme???

In my case I took the tick to the Doctor the very next day after the bite in

2007 and she told me to 1) throw it away, 2) that I didn't need testing, and

3) that I didn't need treatment. I insisted on a Blot which she did but it

came back negative and she 1) never told me it was guaranteed to be negative

that early, 2) to test again in a few weeks, or anything else. I got

progressively sicker for 2 years and went to her with muscle pain and

stiffness, light headedness, heart palpitations, anxiety, bladder

infections, etc. and she never suggested retesting. By 2009 I was having

trouble with the steps and worrying about being able to drive much longer.

She sent me to a rheumatologist who said he did not think I had Lyme and

didn't even test me for it!

FINALLY I got a bulls eye rash on my leg, and by the time I went in to see

her the next day there were two small faint brown circles. She said they

couldn't be Lyme rashes because they were brown and not red. I again had to

push for the blot and she did it but she did not give me any antibiotics

while we waited. That was a crucial week when it was going virulent and

wrecking havac on me. It came back positive and she put me on Doxy for 2

weeks. I had read Burrascano's guideline's by then and went back for two

more weeks. After the Doxy she called me at home and told me that she did

not think I had Lyme any longer because my blood work indicated acute not

long standing infection. Thank God I found a Lyme doctor by then who

confirmed the blot's findings with IGeneX and told me my symptoms reflected

all the coinfections too and that I was looking at at least a 2 year

treatment. 11 months of drugs later I'm still at the beginning stages of

treatment and haven't yet gone after the cystic form.

Anyway, I was happy to see someone broach the issue of lawsuits as they seem

to be completely absent from any discussions I've seen on Lyme.

Thanks for listening!

[Guest guest]

I personally feel that it is an unethical thing to do and would

probably put the camp out of business or make them so paranoid about

getting sued in the future they would make the camp no fun. After all

it's not the camp's fault that you and your children contracted

Lymes. Yes, they should educate in checking your body for ticks. And

they should at least provide tick spray in addition to the loads of

sunscreen they put on our kids. But there is really no way of

keeping ticks out of the camp. After all, the other million people

that have it in this country probably didn't go to your camp to get

it. It's everywhere and it's our country's fault for not educating

our people and doctors with the information they already know. I do

understand your frustration and the expense involved in your future.

But in my opinion that would be another frivolous lawsuit. And just

think, if it's that prevalent there, everyone else that works there

is going to eventually get it too and they will have the same problems

your having. You should just educate them until they quit listening

and then concentrate on your treatments. Good luck.

Take care,

Suzanne

On Aug 15, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Beth Freishtat wrote:

>

> My 2 and 3 year old got Lyme disease and co-infections while we were

> at a summer camp in New York (I was working there and they tagged

> along). I did

> too, but I am covered by worker's comp. A friend who is a personal

> injury attorney wants to represent us to sue the camp for not taking

> more protective measures to keep the deer off the property (they run

> freely throughout the camp). In fact, aside from a 5 minute talk about

> Lyme, there were really no protective measures taken. I initially was

> excited about the idea of a law suit in the hopes that all camps

> everywhere would wake up and even if out of fear of lawsuits would

> feel the need to consider building fencing or planting the shrubs deer

> don't like or other smaller measures so fewer kids would get sick. But

> now the lawyer is saying he would end up settling and would have money

> to pay for my kids huge expenses (past, present and future) and pain

> and suffering, but that he would sign something saying we could not

> talk about the case. I imagine this particular camp (with @600 kids)

> would still make changes and so kids would benefit, but our lawsuit

> would not help others outside the camp (unless they caught word of the

> lawsuit).

>

> My question to you is, do you think it is right to sue?

> What would you do in this situation?

>

> Thanks so much,

> Beth

> p.s. On a side note I love this camp. Fabulous owners and good people

> all the way around. But kids are getting sick there.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I remember people telling us we should sue after it took years to properly

diagnose my son, and years to make him better, and tens of thousands in

medical costs. But as I ventured deeper into the Lyme community I realized

that our story was one of thousands EXACTLY like it.

I would sue every doctor that ever misdiagnosed my son if I thought it would

help and thought they would be affected by it. But I don't think they would.

Instead, I choose to put my energy into educating my community, holding

forums at our school, teaching people about habitat management and personal

preventative measures to avoid tick bites, and state and federal

legislation. The best way to avoid Lyme is to learn how to avoid the ticks

that carry it; and schools, camps, churches, parks are still in the midst of

understanding how integrative pest management plans can deter ticks from

entering populated areas.

I think that offering to provide educational material to the camp would be

much more beneficial and would have much more of a long-lasting effect on a

larger population than just your family than a legal suit against them.

Might also save you money.

Personally, I would rather support larger lawsuits by contributing to Dr.

' legal fund, ILADS research and federal efforts for research and

educational efforts, etc.

I think you would do a lot of good by working with the camp, rather than

against them. Though I really do understand your initial intention.

My best,

Re: [ ] Would you sue?

I personally feel that it is an unethical thing to do and would

probably put the camp out of business or make them so paranoid about

getting sued in the future they would make the camp no fun. After all

it's not the camp's fault that you and your children contracted

Lymes. Yes, they should educate in checking your body for ticks. And

they should at least provide tick spray in addition to the loads of

sunscreen they put on our kids. But there is really no way of

keeping ticks out of the camp. After all, the other million people

that have it in this country probably didn't go to your camp to get

it. It's everywhere and it's our country's fault for not educating

our people and doctors with the information they already know. I do

understand your frustration and the expense involved in your future.

But in my opinion that would be another frivolous lawsuit. And just

think, if it's that prevalent there, everyone else that works there

is going to eventually get it too and they will have the same problems

your having. You should just educate them until they quit listening

and then concentrate on your treatments. Good luck.

Take care,

Suzanne

On Aug 15, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Beth Freishtat wrote:

>

> My 2 and 3 year old got Lyme disease and co-infections while we were

> at a summer camp in New York (I was working there and they tagged

> along). I did

> too, but I am covered by worker's comp. A friend who is a personal

> injury attorney wants to represent us to sue the camp for not taking

> more protective measures to keep the deer off the property (they run

> freely throughout the camp). In fact, aside from a 5 minute talk about

> Lyme, there were really no protective measures taken. I initially was

> excited about the idea of a law suit in the hopes that all camps

> everywhere would wake up and even if out of fear of lawsuits would

> feel the need to consider building fencing or planting the shrubs deer

> don't like or other smaller measures so fewer kids would get sick. But

> now the lawyer is saying he would end up settling and would have money

> to pay for my kids huge expenses (past, present and future) and pain

> and suffering, but that he would sign something saying we could not

> talk about the case. I imagine this particular camp (with @600 kids)

> would still make changes and so kids would benefit, but our lawsuit

> would not help others outside the camp (unless they caught word of the

> lawsuit).

>

> My question to you is, do you think it is right to sue?

> What would you do in this situation?

>

> Thanks so much,

> Beth

> p.s. On a side note I love this camp. Fabulous owners and good people

> all the way around. But kids are getting sick there.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree. More doctors would know more about Lymes if they taught

anything about it in Medical School! You can't hold a doctor

accountable for lack of competent medical training when they expect to

learn everything they need to know to be a doctor and end up with a

small portion of knowledge when they get through. I've asked myself a

million times, " What DO they learn in medical school? " It's NOT lyme

disease that for sure.

I'd rather see people use their frustrations to push information into

the medical mainstream so doctors will become educated. There are

already too many doctors that refuse to treat Lymes because of the

controversial treatments and fear of getting sued if their patients

decline with treatment. Most doctor's don't even recognize the

symptoms or realize what Lyme's really is. It's pathetic, but is it

their fault?

If you sue anyone, sue the CDC. Or better yet, we could all file

formal complaints to it for trying to keep Lyme's a secret. The

problem with making it public knowledge is the fact that insurance

companies are already refusing clients based on the fact that you have

or thought you might have Lymes. My sister can't find any company to

give her health insurance because they saw that she took Actigall and

asked her why. She said she suspected she had Lymes and was treating

herself for it with antibiotics so they refused her for that reason

and told her so. Now she says she's " black-listed " and can't get

coverage by any company. It's funny, they will cover her husband

who's had cancer but not her because she's had Lyme's!!! So tell

the world but I guess you need to lie to the insurance company.

Suzanne

On Aug 17, 2010, at 8:40 PM, Hall wrote:

> I remember people telling us we should sue after it took years to

> properly

> diagnose my son, and years to make him better, and tens of thousands

> in

> medical costs. But as I ventured deeper into the Lyme community I

> realized

> that our story was one of thousands EXACTLY like it.

>

> I would sue every doctor that ever misdiagnosed my son if I thought

> it would

> help and thought they would be affected by it. But I don't think

> they would.

> Instead, I choose to put my energy into educating my community,

> holding

> forums at our school, teaching people about habitat management and

> personal

> preventative measures to avoid tick bites, and state and federal

> legislation. The best way to avoid Lyme is to learn how to avoid the

> ticks

> that carry it; and schools, camps, churches, parks are still in the

> midst of

> understanding how integrative pest management plans can deter ticks

> from

> entering populated areas.

>

> I think that offering to provide educational material to the camp

> would be

> much more beneficial and would have much more of a long-lasting

> effect on a

> larger population than just your family than a legal suit against

> them.

> Might also save you money.

>

> Personally, I would rather support larger lawsuits by contributing

> to Dr.

> ' legal fund, ILADS research and federal efforts for research and

> educational efforts, etc.

>

> I think you would do a lot of good by working with the camp, rather

> than

> against them. Though I really do understand your initial intention.

>

> My best,

>

> Re: [ ] Would you sue?

>

> I personally feel that it is an unethical thing to do and would

> probably put the camp out of business or make them so paranoid about

> getting sued in the future they would make the camp no fun. After all

> it's not the camp's fault that you and your children contracted

> Lymes. Yes, they should educate in checking your body for ticks. And

> they should at least provide tick spray in addition to the loads of

> sunscreen they put on our kids. But there is really no way of

> keeping ticks out of the camp. After all, the other million people

> that have it in this country probably didn't go to your camp to get

> it. It's everywhere and it's our country's fault for not educating

> our people and doctors with the information they already know. I do

> understand your frustration and the expense involved in your future.

> But in my opinion that would be another frivolous lawsuit. And just

> think, if it's that prevalent there, everyone else that works there

> is going to eventually get it too and they will have the same problems

> your having. You should just educate them until they quit listening

> and then concentrate on your treatments. Good luck.

>

> Take care,

> Suzanne

>

> On Aug 15, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Beth Freishtat wrote:

>

> >

> > My 2 and 3 year old got Lyme disease and co-infections while we were

> > at a summer camp in New York (I was working there and they tagged

> > along). I did

> > too, but I am covered by worker's comp. A friend who is a personal

> > injury attorney wants to represent us to sue the camp for not taking

> > more protective measures to keep the deer off the property (they run

> > freely throughout the camp). In fact, aside from a 5 minute talk

> about

> > Lyme, there were really no protective measures taken. I initially

> was

> > excited about the idea of a law suit in the hopes that all camps

> > everywhere would wake up and even if out of fear of lawsuits would

> > feel the need to consider building fencing or planting the shrubs

> deer

> > don't like or other smaller measures so fewer kids would get sick.

> But

> > now the lawyer is saying he would end up settling and would have

> money

> > to pay for my kids huge expenses (past, present and future) and pain

> > and suffering, but that he would sign something saying we could not

> > talk about the case. I imagine this particular camp (with @600 kids)

> > would still make changes and so kids would benefit, but our lawsuit

> > would not help others outside the camp (unless they caught word of

> the

> > lawsuit).

> >

> > My question to you is, do you think it is right to sue?

> > What would you do in this situation?

> >

> > Thanks so much,

> > Beth

> > p.s. On a side note I love this camp. Fabulous owners and good

> people

> > all the way around. But kids are getting sick there.

> >

> >