Suppression vs killing?

[Guest guest]

Can anyone explain to me the difference between suppressing vs killing? My dr

was talking to me about suppressing the critters instead of killing them. I

didn't get what he was explaining to me.

thanks,

Elaine

[Guest guest]

killing means they are gone for good. Suppressing means they are not gone but

they are not growing or causing symptoms. No one knows if Lyme can be killed.

My LLMD said the best they can do is to get you asymptomatic. Atthis point.

Things could change as the state of the science is rapidly evolving.

________________________________

From: ecckwalk <ecckwalk@...>

Sent: Sun, January 23, 2011 7:35:26 PM

Subject: [ ] Suppression vs killing?

Can anyone explain to me the difference between suppressing vs killing? My dr

was talking to me about suppressing the critters instead of killing them. I

didn't get what he was explaining to me.

thanks,

Elaine

[Guest guest]

I would guess he was talking about how they can go dormant. They can

morph themselves into a granular form thus evading antibiotics until

they are either threatened and come out of dormancy or come alive so

to speak. They shed their cell walls and curl up or completely form

into a rolled up ball. While in this stage they do not bother you but

can be activated by antibiotic use or in my case puberty!

Suzanne

On Jan 23, 2011, at 9:35 PM, ecckwalk wrote:

> Can anyone explain to me the difference between suppressing vs

> killing? My dr was talking to me about suppressing the critters

> instead of killing them. I didn't get what he was explaining to me.

> thanks,

> Elaine

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

copied post:

I would guess he was talking about how they can go dormant. They can

morph themselves into a granular form thus evading antibiotics until

they are either threatened and come out of dormancy or come alive so

to speak. They shed their cell walls and curl up or completely form

into a rolled up ball. While in this stage they do not bother you but

can be activated by antibiotic use or in my case puberty!

Suzanne

my post:

Suzanne is correct, the spirochete can change into a " cyst " form, which is

what she's describing. In case someone doesn't know, this form is treated

with Flagyl or Tindamax, other antibiotics are not effective against it.

This is why LLMD's put patients on several different antibiotics -- to kill

the Lyme in each of its three forms (spirochete, L-form and cyst form).

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your replies.  I know the spirochettes can go into cyst forms but

I thought that the goal of treatment is to kill everything not sometimes

suppress.  If they are only suppressed, as in dormant, it seems that they would

return later.  I know that killing all of it isn't possible.  Maybe you kill

as

much as you can then you suppress the rest.

Elaine

 

copied post:

I would guess he was talking about how they can go dormant. They can

morph themselves into a granular form thus evading antibiotics until

they are either threatened and come out of dormancy or come alive so

to speak. They shed their cell walls and curl up or completely form

into a rolled up ball. While in this stage they do not bother you but

can be activated by antibiotic use or in my case puberty!

Suzanne

my post:

Suzanne is correct, the spirochete can change into a " cyst " form, which is

what she's describing. In case someone doesn't know, this form is treated

with Flagyl or Tindamax, other antibiotics are not effective against it.

This is why LLMD's put patients on several different antibiotics -- to kill

the Lyme in each of its three forms (spirochete, L-form and cyst form).

[Guest guest]

There are different theories. And what you say is logical. I have

never heard of a doctor trying to suppress before. I don't know how

you could even do that. I'd like to know what he does. Some doc's

think exactly that, you kill as much as you can then live in harmony

with what is left.

However, I finished my treatment 7 and a half years ago and I feel

that it is still gone. I am paranoid to take antibiotics now for fear

that I will wake up a spirochete from hibernation! But it hasn't

happened yet. (knock on wood) My son also has been finished for

about 7 years and he seems fine too. It's hard not to be paranoid

over every rash and achey joint but if your treatment is complete and

works the way it's suppose to you will feel cured. Although there is

some left over damage that I take a handful of pills for but that's

better than what I used to put up with!

Suzanne

On Jan 24, 2011, at 6:29 PM, wrote:

> Thank you for your replies. I know the spirochettes can go into

> cyst forms but

> I thought that the goal of treatment is to kill everything not

> sometimes

> suppress. If they are only suppressed, as in dormant, it seems that

> they would

> return later. I know that killing all of it isn't possible. Maybe

> you kill as

> much as you can then you suppress the rest.

> Elaine

>

>

> copied post:

>

> I would guess he was talking about how they can go dormant. They can

> morph themselves into a granular form thus evading antibiotics until

> they are either threatened and come out of dormancy or come alive so

> to speak. They shed their cell walls and curl up or completely form

> into a rolled up ball. While in this stage they do not bother you but

> can be activated by antibiotic use or in my case puberty!

> Suzanne

>

> my post:

>

> Suzanne is correct, the spirochete can change into a " cyst " form,

> which is

> what she's describing. In case someone doesn't know, this form is

> treated

> with Flagyl or Tindamax, other antibiotics are not effective against

> it.

> This is why LLMD's put patients on several different antibiotics --

> to kill

> the Lyme in each of its three forms (spirochete, L-form and cyst

> form).

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, Suzanne! It's nice to hear from someone who has been off treatment for so

long and is doing fine. How long did you and your son have Lyme? Did you have

coinfections? How long were you treated?

thanks,

Elaine

[Guest guest]

yes, suzanne, please share your recovery story with us!!!

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:01 PM, <ecckwalk@...> wrote:

>

>

> Wow, Suzanne! It's nice to hear from someone who has been off treatment for

> so

> long and is doing fine. How long did you and your son have Lyme? Did you

> have

> coinfections? How long were you treated?

> thanks,

> Elaine

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

OK, but some of you longtimers have probly heard some of this before

so disregard if you don't want to hear it again.

My mother was diagnosed with Lyme's in Houston about 15 years ago. At

age 60, she had obviously had it for many years. She is 75 now. Of

course my father was much sicker than she was and he became positive

too after proper testing. They were both chronic and very ill. My

father was a big hunter in the 50's and would hunt with a friend that

was butcher. So they would dress their own deer in the field.

Needless to say he would be COVERED in tics afterwards. Ugh, the

thought right? He told me the deer would have about 2 or 3 THOUSAND

tics on it! He would end up with HUNDREDS on him and would brush them

off like you do dirt off your clothes!! He shortly went to the

hospital (more than once) with 106+ temperature and they told him they

thought he had something similar to Malaria but they couldn't figure

it out.

Longer story shorter.... He gave it to my mom, she gave it to her

kids by birth. Remember that spirochetes can be found in breast milk,

semen, urine, sweat, blood, etc. So I was born with it. Barely made

it in this world premature and blue. I think it went mostly dormant

until puberty. Then symptoms fell on me like a ton of bricks! After

many years and 100 or so doctor appts I finally found out at 37 years

old I had Lyme's too. Then my sister was positive. I started

Rocephin shots Intra muscular, I gave them to myself. Not so bad, I

got used to it. They were huge 2 gram shots every other day. I felt

better with every shot. Every month I would have a hormone change,

and I wasn't taking anything else except Actigall. The shots did get

harder when I got pregnant after 4 months because the Rocephin worked

so well killing off spirochetes that it CURED my 6 years of

infertility! So I was pregnant most of my treatment. The wonderful

pediatrician Lyme specialist we all know and love saved my daughter

from this dreaded disease with his advise. So I continued the shots

until she was born. Immediately tested her cord blood and a tissue

sample of something up there, and they were both negative at IGENEX.

The Rocephin kept my blood clean of spirochetes to keep them out of

her blood, etc.

Although my son had no symptoms, I tested him anyway and he was

" equivocal " at 8 years old. I feel that equivocal is positive (my

opinion... if the band changes color, it's there!) so I wanted to test

him with a trial run of antibiotics and if he was positive he would

herx or react to the treatment. I know this is not conventional but

it was my decision since I was raging with Lymes and I knew he HAD to

have gotten it from me and I didn't want to wait til puberty for it to

surface like it did me. Exactly what the doctor said would happen is

what happened. " If he had it... " some of these things would happen

or more... Immediately he developed hearing loss(the permanent

kind), rash and achy joints, 3 weeks into treatment he started to show

terrible mood swings and emotional distress because we had woken up

the spirochetes with the treatment. At this point I had no choice but

to treat him... I continued treatment and eventually all symptoms

disappeared within the year and he felt better than before with the

exception of his stomach because back then they didn't attack the body

with probiotics like they do now. We quit treatment after about a

year and as soon as I got some holistic treatment for his stomach he

was 100 percent perfect and still is 8 years later. And the permanent

hearing loss was cured too! ( No thanks to the ENT that thought our

Lymes diagnosis was a hoax. After all " we don't live in

Connecticut!?? " Idiot. Sorry I go on tangents sometimes. )

My mother tolerated treatment OKish. My father and sister did not at

all. My sister treats hers Holistically with a nutritionist and does

well. My father died a year and a half ago from Lymes Disease and

the complications it causes. He was 75. Refused to treat it since he

herx'd so badly. But he also smoked which I'm sure made his health

worse. I always did wonder if the poison of the cigarettes might have

killed those buggers just enough to have actually let him live longer

than he would have?? weird thought. He lived with Lymes for over 50

years! He basically was untreated. If your interested.... How it

affected him was, if it made a hormone it was affected in his body.

He lived with depression, aches and pains, by the 1980's had one

cancerous tumor removed that was encased in his kidney, his prostate

removed, by the late 1990's his kidney developed untreatable stones,

worse depression and ache's. By 2005 he lost all his muscle and fat,

his kidney started to fail, his adrenals exhausted and encased with a

tumor, his liver was not normal, developed diabetes, addison's

disease, etc from the damage. The strange thing is, he smoked for 55

years and his lungs and heart were in good shape! And the man never

complained! He couldn't take it anymore and committed suicide.

My heart goes out to the parents on here that are dealing with

terrible situations with their babies. I've cried a lot reading your

posts. I almost feel guilty that our treatments worked so easily for

us. Maybe it's because we were developed with the spirochetes and

thus it affected us differently. There are also different kinds of

Borrelia Bergdorferi Spirochetes. So Texas tics might be carrying

different ones than the other tics in the country. I was told years

ago that 1 in every 10 tics that are capable of carrying Lymes HAS it

in the state of Texas. And that if research holds true it can be

calculated that 1 in 4 people in the US carries Lyme Disease. That's

worse than cancer.

Good luck everyone with your treatments. We are all supporting

eachother. So when the world knocks you down for saving your children

fight back because they are ignorant and misinformed. Try to replace

your anger with only the compassion you have for your child, disregard

their hurtful actions and move on with your life. One day this world

will listen to our screams!

Suzanne

On Jan 24, 2011, at 9:13 PM, le Handy wrote:

> yes, suzanne, please share your recovery story with us!!!

>

> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:01 PM, <ecckwalk@...>

> wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> Wow, Suzanne! It's nice to hear from someone who has been off

>> treatment for

>> so

>> long and is doing fine. How long did you and your son have Lyme?

>> Did you

>> have

>> coinfections? How long were you treated?

>> thanks,

>> Elaine

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

An amazing story Suzanne.  I'm sorry to hear about your father and all that you

and your family has been through.  Doesn't this all sound like it's just TOO

unbelievable to be true! 

Glad to hear your treatments were successful.

Elaine