Re: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

[Guest guest]

Hi and Welcome,

In men Estraidol is made from Testosterone and the higher this gets the more he

will make SHBG as this goes up it binds up the Testosterone levels so they are

not working.

Now in your case doing T3 only will raise SHBG in both men and women. You say

your doing Test C shots .5ml IM every week. If you using the same Test C I use

200mgs/ml your doing a dam big shot. Why are you on so much and yes with out

doing labs I would say most of the Testosterone you taking is converting into

Estraidol so your levels must be very high. When doing T3 only meds if your

SHBG is high all that Testosterone your taking is now bound up.

I am not sure why your on so much Testosterone but here is a cut and paste about

whats happening to you from this link about women becoming men. I don't know if

your trying this but the link is full of good info I tell men to read it it's

full of good info for all.

http://www.ftmguide.org/ttypes.html#cypionate

If your not trying FTM then I question why your Dr. would have you on so much

Test C.

Your best bet would be to do labs to find out what is going on. I feel your

Estradiol is very high giving you cramping and your best bet would be to lower

your Test C dose and stop the Estradiol for a time. Still are you on T3 only

meds is so you might want to stop this also. So your SHBG levels will come back

down if they show high.

If you need to you can Email me

pmgamer18@...

One fast why to lower your Estradiol is to take some Indolplex/DIM.

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

====================================================

A note of caution about greatly increasing your T dosage

During the first months of T therapy, many trans men feel impatient waiting for

changes to happen. Some may consider doubling or tripling their dose, thinking

that the more they put in, the faster the changes will come. However, as was

mentioned in the " FTM Testosterone Therapy Basics " section, dramatically

increasing your dose might have the effect of slowing your changes. This is

because excess testosterone in your body can be converted into estrogen by an

enzyme called " aromatase. " This conversion is part of the body's natural

feedback system-- if there is an abundance of testosterone in the body, it is

converted ( " aromatized " ) to estrogen in order to maintain a " normal " hormonal

balance. Therefore, taking very large doses of testosterone might not be a great

idea. Be patient; if you are not seeing results in a reasonable period of time,

and/or your T levels are low, discuss modifying your dosage with your doctor.

To learn more about the side-effects and health issues around testosterone

therapy, please see the " FTM Testosterone Therapy and General Health " section.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <cinkourk@...>

> Subject: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

>

> Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 4:08 PM

> Hi Phil,

>

> I'm female...52 yrs. old.   It has been

> suggested from one of the members of Val 's

> Hypothyroid/RT3/T3 group that I join your group to ask a few

> questions regarding some problems that I am having with SHBG

> and my female hormones.

>

> Since I've started on a T3 only regimen I think I may have

> developed a a problem with my testosterone converting to

> Estrogen. My Estrogen levels were alright when I had my last

> labs done but since this time I have increased my

> testosterone dose.   I was taking 1.5mg

> Estradial and I also take .5 ml Cypionate Testosterone

> injections IM weekly.   Also take 400mg

> Progesterone daily.  I have been having terrible

> menstrual type cramps and my hair loss and dry skin have

> returned.  I am post meno for six yrs. now.  I

> have not had any type of bleeding since this time...only the

> cramping when I take my Estrogen presently.  I tried

> dropping my E dose down to 1mg daily and I still have the

> problems.   Does this sound like I am having

> problems with the T converting to E??  Not sure if you

> know much about the female side of all of this but I would

> really appreciate any insight if you could provide some

> answers.  I am really at a loss. 

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the welcome. No, I am not trying to transgender. I have had low

libido for years. Had adrenal fatigue and hypothyroid. Went through menopause

and am now trying to regulate my hormones and have a decent libido. I've tried

everything from creams, gels, oral, troches and even pellets. Nothing has

helped until I started on the injections. And yes my levels are very high for

a female. But, since I was getting the libido results and the fact that I'm on

T3 only my Dr. has allowed me to continue this dose. He did say that he starts

most all of his women at .5mg weekly. It is the Cypionate 200mg/ml and I inject

..5ml weekly. Now, I do also know that the T3 only does create the high SHBG,

thus binding the Testosterone. I think this is why I need such a high dose of

Testosterone. Anyway, I did feel that my Testosterone was most likely

converting to Estrogen and thus have a big problem again. I don't know whether

you know Val from the RT3/T3 group but she says that the SHBG will elevate on T3

only and that we need to take more Testosterone to compensate for the binding.

So here I now am with most likely a very elevated SHBG, elevated T and E levels

and no relief of symptoms. So, are you saying that I will not get relief UNTIL

I bring some T4 back into the picture to allow the SHBG to come down to normal??

Thanks so much for answering my questions and trying to help make sense of what

might be my problem, and possibly how to correct the situation. I am due for

labs this next week so I will be able to the levels and maybe know what's

actually going on.

Thanks,

In , philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> Hi and Welcome,

>

> In men Estraidol is made from Testosterone and the higher this gets the more

he will make SHBG as this goes up it binds up the Testosterone levels so they

are not working.

>

> Now in your case doing T3 only will raise SHBG in both men and women. You say

your doing Test C shots .5ml IM every week. If you using the same Test C I use

200mgs/ml your doing a dam big shot. Why are you on so much and yes with out

doing labs I would say most of the Testosterone you taking is converting into

Estraidol so your levels must be very high. When doing T3 only meds if your

SHBG is high all that Testosterone your taking is now bound up.

>

> I am not sure why your on so much Testosterone but here is a cut and paste

about whats happening to you from this link about women becoming men. I don't

know if your trying this but the link is full of good info I tell men to read it

it's full of good info for all.

> http://www.ftmguide.org/ttypes.html#cypionate

> If your not trying FTM then I question why your Dr. would have you on so much

Test C.

>

> Your best bet would be to do labs to find out what is going on. I feel your

Estradiol is very high giving you cramping and your best bet would be to lower

your Test C dose and stop the Estradiol for a time. Still are you on T3 only

meds is so you might want to stop this also. So your SHBG levels will come back

down if they show high.

> If you need to you can Email me

> pmgamer18@...

> One fast why to lower your Estradiol is to take some Indolplex/DIM.

> http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

>

> ====================================================

> A note of caution about greatly increasing your T dosage

> During the first months of T therapy, many trans men feel impatient waiting

for changes to happen. Some may consider doubling or tripling their dose,

thinking that the more they put in, the faster the changes will come. However,

as was mentioned in the " FTM Testosterone Therapy Basics " section, dramatically

increasing your dose might have the effect of slowing your changes. This is

because excess testosterone in your body can be converted into estrogen by an

enzyme called " aromatase. " This conversion is part of the body's natural

feedback system-- if there is an abundance of testosterone in the body, it is

converted ( " aromatized " ) to estrogen in order to maintain a " normal " hormonal

balance. Therefore, taking very large doses of testosterone might not be a great

idea. Be patient; if you are not seeing results in a reasonable period of time,

and/or your T levels are low, discuss modifying your dosage with your doctor.

>

> To learn more about the side-effects and health issues around testosterone

therapy, please see the " FTM Testosterone Therapy and General Health " section.

>

>

>

>

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

>

>

>

> > From: <cinkourk@...>

> > Subject: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> >

> > Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 4:08 PM

> > Hi Phil,

> >

> > I'm female...52 yrs. old.   It has been

> > suggested from one of the members of Val 's

> > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3 group that I join your group to ask a few

> > questions regarding some problems that I am having with SHBG

> > and my female hormones.

> >

> > Since I've started on a T3 only regimen I think I may have

> > developed a a problem with my testosterone converting to

> > Estrogen. My Estrogen levels were alright when I had my last

> > labs done but since this time I have increased my

> > testosterone dose.   I was taking 1.5mg

> > Estradial and I also take .5 ml Cypionate Testosterone

> > injections IM weekly.   Also take 400mg

> > Progesterone daily.  I have been having terrible

> > menstrual type cramps and my hair loss and dry skin have

> > returned.  I am post meno for six yrs. now.  I

> > have not had any type of bleeding since this time...only the

> > cramping when I take my Estrogen presently.  I tried

> > dropping my E dose down to 1mg daily and I still have the

> > problems.   Does this sound like I am having

> > problems with the T converting to E??  Not sure if you

> > know much about the female side of all of this but I would

> > really appreciate any insight if you could provide some

> > answers.  I am really at a loss. 

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

HI ,

I, too, would question how wise it is for a female to take such a huge dose

of Testosterone Cypionate. I do understand the binding issues, but I would

question if maybe you should be approaching the reason for the binding

issues instead of just throwing higher dosages of Testosterone at the

problem. Interestingly enough, at least in men, increasing your

testosterone can decrease your thyroid.

Both high levels of thyroid and low levels of thyroid can cause hair loss.

Your high dosage of Testosterone is likely converting into estradiols.

High levels of thyroid can cause an increase of estradiols, too.

High estradiol levels can cause any number of symptoms, including cramping,

anxiety, depression, water retention, making it harder to sleep well

throughout the night, lumps in the breasts, etc.

High thyroid levels and high estradiol levels will increase your SHBG

levels.

High SHBG levels will make it difficult for your body to utilize

Testosterone.

I am not familiar with T3 only therapy, but I question if it is wise not to

take T4 at the same time. I am not sure what side effects you may have.

If you don't care to change dosages of the thyroid meds or testosterone or

estrogen, then I would consider increasing your dosage of progesterone.

Progesterone counteracts estrogen and helps to keep it in balance. I have

family members taking up to 800mg of Progesterone per day (but no estrogen)

and doing quite well (one person takes 600 at night and 200 during the day

and another person takes 500 at night and 100 during the day).

However, I feel that Phil and Val know much more than me when it comes to

thyroid issues, so take my advice as you will.

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of

Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 4:42 PM

Subject: Re: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the welcome. No, I am not trying to transgender. I have had low

libido for years. Had adrenal fatigue and hypothyroid. Went through

menopause and am now trying to regulate my hormones and have a decent

libido. I've tried everything from creams, gels, oral, troches and even

pellets. Nothing has helped until I started on the injections. And yes my

levels are very high for a female. But, since I was getting the libido

results and the fact that I'm on T3 only my Dr. has allowed me to continue

this dose. He did say that he starts most all of his women at .5mg weekly.

It is the Cypionate 200mg/ml and I inject .5ml weekly. Now, I do also know

that the T3 only does create the high SHBG, thus binding the Testosterone. I

think this is why I need such a high dose of Testosterone. Anyway, I did

feel that my Testosterone was most likely converting to Estrogen and thus

have a big problem again. I don't know whether you know Val from the RT3/T3

group but she says that the SHBG will elevate on T3 only and that we need to

take more Testosterone to compensate for the binding. So here I now am with

most likely a very elevated SHBG, elevated T and E levels and no relief of

symptoms. So, are you saying that I will not get relief UNTIL I bring some

T4 back into the picture to allow the SHBG to come down to normal??

Thanks so much for answering my questions and trying to help make sense of

what might be my problem, and possibly how to correct the situation. I am

due for labs this next week so I will be able to the levels and maybe know

what's actually going on.

Thanks,

In <mailto: %40> ,

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> Hi and Welcome,

>

> In men Estraidol is made from Testosterone and the higher this gets the

more he will make SHBG as this goes up it binds up the Testosterone levels

so they are not working.

>

> Now in your case doing T3 only will raise SHBG in both men and women. You

say your doing Test C shots .5ml IM every week. If you using the same Test C

I use 200mgs/ml your doing a dam big shot. Why are you on so much and yes

with out doing labs I would say most of the Testosterone you taking is

converting into Estraidol so your levels must be very high. When doing T3

only meds if your SHBG is high all that Testosterone your taking is now

bound up.

>

> I am not sure why your on so much Testosterone but here is a cut and paste

about whats happening to you from this link about women becoming men. I

don't know if your trying this but the link is full of good info I tell men

to read it it's full of good info for all.

> http://www.ftmguide.org/ttypes.html#cypionate

> If your not trying FTM then I question why your Dr. would have you on so

much Test C.

>

> Your best bet would be to do labs to find out what is going on. I feel

your Estradiol is very high giving you cramping and your best bet would be

to lower your Test C dose and stop the Estradiol for a time. Still are you

on T3 only meds is so you might want to stop this also. So your SHBG levels

will come back down if they show high.

> If you need to you can Email me

> pmgamer18@...

> One fast why to lower your Estradiol is to take some Indolplex/DIM.

>

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at

=0

>

> ====================================================

> A note of caution about greatly increasing your T dosage

> During the first months of T therapy, many trans men feel impatient

waiting for changes to happen. Some may consider doubling or tripling their

dose, thinking that the more they put in, the faster the changes will come.

However, as was mentioned in the " FTM Testosterone Therapy Basics " section,

dramatically increasing your dose might have the effect of slowing your

changes. This is because excess testosterone in your body can be converted

into estrogen by an enzyme called " aromatase. " This conversion is part of

the body's natural feedback system-- if there is an abundance of

testosterone in the body, it is converted ( " aromatized " ) to estrogen in

order to maintain a " normal " hormonal balance. Therefore, taking very large

doses of testosterone might not be a great idea. Be patient; if you are not

seeing results in a reasonable period of time, and/or your T levels are low,

discuss modifying your dosage with your doctor.

>

> To learn more about the side-effects and health issues around testosterone

therapy, please see the " FTM Testosterone Therapy and General Health "

section.

>

>

>

>

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

>

>

>

> > From: <cinkourk@...>

> > Subject: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> >

<mailto: %40>

> > Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 4:08 PM

> > Hi Phil,

> >

> > I'm female...52 yrs. old. It has been

> > suggested from one of the members of Val 's

> > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3 group that I join your group to ask a few

> > questions regarding some problems that I am having with SHBG

> > and my female hormones.

> >

> > Since I've started on a T3 only regimen I think I may have

> > developed a a problem with my testosterone converting to

> > Estrogen. My Estrogen levels were alright when I had my last

> > labs done but since this time I have increased my

> > testosterone dose. I was taking 1.5mg

> > Estradial and I also take .5 ml Cypionate Testosterone

> > injections IM weekly. Also take 400mg

> > Progesterone daily. I have been having terrible

> > menstrual type cramps and my hair loss and dry skin have

> > returned. I am post meno for six yrs. now. I

> > have not had any type of bleeding since this time...only the

> > cramping when I take my Estrogen presently. I tried

> > dropping my E dose down to 1mg daily and I still have the

> > problems. Does this sound like I am having

> > problems with the T converting to E?? Not sure if you

> > know much about the female side of all of this but I would

> > really appreciate any insight if you could provide some

> > answers. I am really at a loss.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

From what I have seen with high testosterone levels at least your SHBG drops

with higher levels. Your body doesn't want it that high so is dumping it.

________________________________

From: <hostmaster@...>

Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 5:07:39 PM

Subject: RE: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

HI ,

I, too, would question how wise it is for a female to take such a huge dose

of Testosterone Cypionate. I do understand the binding issues, but I would

question if maybe you should be approaching the reason for the binding

issues instead of just throwing higher dosages of Testosterone at the

problem. Interestingly enough, at least in men, increasing your

testosterone can decrease your thyroid.

Both high levels of thyroid and low levels of thyroid can cause hair loss.

Your high dosage of Testosterone is likely converting into estradiols.

High levels of thyroid can cause an increase of estradiols, too.

High estradiol levels can cause any number of symptoms, including cramping,

anxiety, depression, water retention, making it harder to sleep well

throughout the night, lumps in the breasts, etc.

High thyroid levels and high estradiol levels will increase your SHBG

levels.

High SHBG levels will make it difficult for your body to utilize

Testosterone.

I am not familiar with T3 only therapy, but I question if it is wise not to

take T4 at the same time. I am not sure what side effects you may have.

If you don't care to change dosages of the thyroid meds or testosterone or

estrogen, then I would consider increasing your dosage of progesterone.

Progesterone counteracts estrogen and helps to keep it in balance. I have

family members taking up to 800mg of Progesterone per day (but no estrogen)

and doing quite well (one person takes 600 at night and 200 during the day

and another person takes 500 at night and 100 during the day).

However, I feel that Phil and Val know much more than me when it comes to

thyroid issues, so take my advice as you will.

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of

Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 4:42 PM

Subject: Re: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the welcome. No, I am not trying to transgender. I have had low

libido for years. Had adrenal fatigue and hypothyroid. Went through

menopause and am now trying to regulate my hormones and have a decent

libido. I've tried everything from creams, gels, oral, troches and even

pellets. Nothing has helped until I started on the injections. And yes my

levels are very high for a female. But, since I was getting the libido

results and the fact that I'm on T3 only my Dr. has allowed me to continue

this dose. He did say that he starts most all of his women at .5mg weekly.

It is the Cypionate 200mg/ml and I inject .5ml weekly. Now, I do also know

that the T3 only does create the high SHBG, thus binding the Testosterone. I

think this is why I need such a high dose of Testosterone. Anyway, I did

feel that my Testosterone was most likely converting to Estrogen and thus

have a big problem again. I don't know whether you know Val from the RT3/T3

group but she says that the SHBG will elevate on T3 only and that we need to

take more Testosterone to compensate for the binding. So here I now am with

most likely a very elevated SHBG, elevated T and E levels and no relief of

symptoms. So, are you saying that I will not get relief UNTIL I bring some

T4 back into the picture to allow the SHBG to come down to normal??

Thanks so much for answering my questions and trying to help make sense of

what might be my problem, and possibly how to correct the situation. I am

due for labs this next week so I will be able to the levels and maybe know

what's actually going on.

Thanks,

In <mailto: %40> ,

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> Hi and Welcome,

>

> In men Estraidol is made from Testosterone and the higher this gets the

more he will make SHBG as this goes up it binds up the Testosterone levels

so they are not working.

>

> Now in your case doing T3 only will raise SHBG in both men and women. You

say your doing Test C shots .5ml IM every week. If you using the same Test C

I use 200mgs/ml your doing a dam big shot. Why are you on so much and yes

with out doing labs I would say most of the Testosterone you taking is

converting into Estraidol so your levels must be very high. When doing T3

only meds if your SHBG is high all that Testosterone your taking is now

bound up.

>

> I am not sure why your on so much Testosterone but here is a cut and paste

about whats happening to you from this link about women becoming men. I

don't know if your trying this but the link is full of good info I tell men

to read it it's full of good info for all.

> http://www.ftmguide.org/ttypes.html#cypionate

> If your not trying FTM then I question why your Dr. would have you on so

much Test C.

>

> Your best bet would be to do labs to find out what is going on. I feel

your Estradiol is very high giving you cramping and your best bet would be

to lower your Test C dose and stop the Estradiol for a time. Still are you

on T3 only meds is so you might want to stop this also. So your SHBG levels

will come back down if they show high.

> If you need to you can Email me

> pmgamer18@...

> One fast why to lower your Estradiol is to take some Indolplex/DIM.

>

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at

=0

>

> ====================================================

> A note of caution about greatly increasing your T dosage

> During the first months of T therapy, many trans men feel impatient

waiting for changes to happen. Some may consider doubling or tripling their

dose, thinking that the more they put in, the faster the changes will come.

However, as was mentioned in the " FTM Testosterone Therapy Basics " section,

dramatically increasing your dose might have the effect of slowing your

changes. This is because excess testosterone in your body can be converted

into estrogen by an enzyme called " aromatase. " This conversion is part of

the body's natural feedback system-- if there is an abundance of

testosterone in the body, it is converted ( " aromatized " ) to estrogen in

order to maintain a " normal " hormonal balance. Therefore, taking very large

doses of testosterone might not be a great idea. Be patient; if you are not

seeing results in a reasonable period of time, and/or your T levels are low,

discuss modifying your dosage with your doctor.

>

> To learn more about the side-effects and health issues around testosterone

therapy, please see the " FTM Testosterone Therapy and General Health "

section.

>

>

>

>

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

>

>

>

> > From: <cinkourk@...>

> > Subject: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> >

<mailto: %40>

> > Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 4:08 PM

> > Hi Phil,

> >

> > I'm female...52 yrs. old. It has been

> > suggested from one of the members of Val 's

> > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3 group that I join your group to ask a few

> > questions regarding some problems that I am having with SHBG

> > and my female hormones.

> >

> > Since I've started on a T3 only regimen I think I may have

> > developed a a problem with my testosterone converting to

> > Estrogen. My Estrogen levels were alright when I had my last

> > labs done but since this time I have increased my

> > testosterone dose. I was taking 1.5mg

> > Estradial and I also take .5 ml Cypionate Testosterone

> > injections IM weekly. Also take 400mg

> > Progesterone daily. I have been having terrible

> > menstrual type cramps and my hair loss and dry skin have

> > returned. I am post meno for six yrs. now. I

> > have not had any type of bleeding since this time...only the

> > cramping when I take my Estrogen presently. I tried

> > dropping my E dose down to 1mg daily and I still have the

> > problems. Does this sound like I am having

> > problems with the T converting to E?? Not sure if you

> > know much about the female side of all of this but I would

> > really appreciate any insight if you could provide some

> > answers. I am really at a loss.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Ok now that we are on the same page you can stop your Estradiol supplement until

you feel you need it. This will help you can stop taking it for a week or two

just to see how you feel to keep your Free T levels up yes you need more T but

if your gettinh hair on your face of an inlarged clit where it bothers you you

would need to cut down on the test C size of your shot. But I don't think I

needed to tell you this. If your RT3 is a big problem and it needs to be

lowered just add in some Indolplex/DIM it's a supplement that lowers E's in men

and wormen sold OTC. Yes I know Val we go way back she helped me for some time

when I first met her.

I don't like telling people to get there RT3 levels down unless it is a true

problem. I have men reading about high RT3 testing it seeing they are high with

good levels of Free T4 and T3 and they still go on T3 only meds and mess up

there Testosterone levels big time. Some of them are a big mess when they get

to me. I feel if you can't fix why your RT3 is high doing T3 only the RT3 will

just go back up when you stop the T3 only meds.

I have a higher RT3 but I am on a lot of pain I had heart bypass surgery and my

RT3 went up from the 5 x's I had to be opened up. Then I was put on Statin

Drugs and them drugs lowered my CoQ10 levels and I now need to us a walker to

stand up and walk and I have a lot of pain from being on them drugs so my RT3 is

staying high.

If you need to keep your RT3 in check then get on some Indolplex/DIM take on

Tablet at dinner time. Also take some TMG at bedtime this will help your liver

wash out your E's and even help you sleep.

http://www.myvitanet.com/tmgtr75120ca.html

The men I help to get there Estradiol levels down get there involuntary

nocturnal erections that appear during REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep back this

is when they know there Estradiol levels are the lowest and best they can be I

call this the sweet spot. Women also experience episodes of nocturnal arousal

during REM sleep. Approximately four or five times a night they experience

labial, vaginal and clitoral engorgement.

This is when your at your sweet spot.

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

So your still able to do some things to help you with this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > > From: <cinkourk@...>

> > > Subject: Cramping with

> Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> > >

> > > Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 4:08 PM

> > > Hi Phil,

> > >

> > > I'm female...52 yrs. old.   It has been

> > > suggested from one of the members of Val

> 's

> > > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3 group that I join your group

> to ask a few

> > > questions regarding some problems that I am

> having with SHBG

> > > and my female hormones.

> > >

> > > Since I've started on a T3 only regimen I think I

> may have

> > > developed a a problem with my testosterone

> converting to

> > > Estrogen. My Estrogen levels were alright when I

> had my last

> > > labs done but since this time I have increased

> my

> > > testosterone dose.   I was taking 1.5mg

> > > Estradial and I also take .5 ml Cypionate

> Testosterone

> > > injections IM weekly.   Also take 400mg

> > > Progesterone daily.  I have been having

> terrible

> > > menstrual type cramps and my hair loss and dry

> skin have

> > > returned.  I am post meno for six yrs. now.  I

> > > have not had any type of bleeding since this

> time...only the

> > > cramping when I take my Estrogen presently.  I

> tried

> > > dropping my E dose down to 1mg daily and I still

> have the

> > > problems.   Does this sound like I am having

> > > problems with the T converting to E??  Not sure

> if you

> > > know much about the female side of all of this

> but I would

> > > really appreciate any insight if you could

> provide some

> > > answers.  I am really at a loss. 

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Gentlemen...thank you all for the comments.

 

Thanks so much Phil.  I'm so glad you understand my situation.  I did have an

RT3 problem which is presently under control with the T3.   But, I am glad

that you responded and told me of a few things I can try.  Yes, I do know about

the side effects of the high level Testosteron.  So far have not had to deal

with any of these to the degree that I would stop the supplementation.  I did

wonder why lately my libido(been good for about 4months now) had taken a dive

and also wondered why each time I took the Estrogen I had problems with the

cramping.  I just experimented where I stopped taking my E for about 3-4 days,

then today I took 1mg today and sure enough the cramping started up again. 

So, I will take your advice and stay off of the Estrogen for awhile until I can

get some labwork done.  I'll also look into the DIM in case

my Estrogen levels continue to remain high once I stop the oral

supplementation. 

 

Now I do have another question for you regarding the RT3. I believe that my

Reverse T3 problems were from crashed adrenals.  I did also have low Vit D

levels and very low iron levels.   I'm also glad that you know Val and are

aware of her protocol and understand why I have been on the T3 only regimen. 

You did however make me wonder about your comments.  Since I have now taken

care of all of my supposed problems, do you think that trying to add a bit of

T4 into the mix would possibly get my SHBG down naturally??  Does this sound

like something that might work if I were to give this a try??   I currently

take 81.25mcg of Cytomel and thought if I possible decreased the T3 a bit and

added say 15-25 mg of Armour that I may be able to solve a few more

hormonal problems and not have the RT3 creep back into the picture.   I'm all

about experimentation and again totally open for suggestions.  I know Val is

very knowledgeable about the adrenals

and thyroid but I believe that since she does not have to deal with the high

level Testosterone doses as I do that she is not sure what to tell me when it

comes to my questions.

 

So sorry to hear about your problems.  I'm sure that the 5x's

surgery/recovery was very rough on your adrenals.   I'm sure that had alot to

do with the elevated RT3.   I too take

Co-q-10 along with VitD, B-12, Krill Oil, Alpha Lipoic Acid and SR Magnesium. 

Val swears by the Krill oil.  My husband had high BP and his cholesterol was

looking bad.   Put him on the Krill oil and his BP is perfect and his

cholesterol levels are perfect again. 

 

Thanks again for giving me some comfort in knowing that I may have some

options.  It's reassuring.

 

 

> >

> > > From: <cinkourk@...>

> > > Subject: Cramping with

> Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> > >

> > > Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 4:08 PM

> > > Hi Phil,

> > >

> > > I'm female...52 yrs. old.   It has been

> > > suggested from one of the members of Val

> 's

> > > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3 group that I join your group

> to ask a few

> > > questions regarding some problems that I am

> having with SHBG

> > > and my female hormones.

> > >

> > > Since I've started on a T3 only regimen I think I

> may have

> > > developed a a problem with my testosterone

> converting to

> > > Estrogen. My Estrogen levels were alright when I

> had my last

> > > labs done but since this time I have increased

> my

> > > testosterone dose.   I was taking 1.5mg

> > > Estradial and I also take .5 ml Cypionate

> Testosterone

> > > injections IM weekly.   Also take 400mg

> > > Progesterone daily.  I have been having

> terrible

> > > menstrual type cramps and my hair loss and dry

> skin have

> > > returned.  I am post meno for six yrs. now.  I

> > > have not had any type of bleeding since this

> time...only the

> > > cramping when I take my Estrogen presently.  I

> tried

> > > dropping my E dose down to 1mg daily and I still

> have the

> > > problems.   Does this sound like I am having

> > > problems with the T converting to E??  Not sure

> if you

> > > know much about the female side of all of this

> but I would

> > > really appreciate any insight if you could

> provide some

> > > answers.  I am really at a loss. 

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

If you take the progesterone of 800mg by pill, injection, or cream a different

amoung gets to be used in each case. Most of the pill is wasted, the creams is

mostly used, the injection is all used.

The injection leaves hard painful lumps in most people fo weeks.

The cream is most useful, but 800mg is very high for most people.

If the " T " is for sex, then you may try a dab 2% testosterone cream applied to

the clit about 1/2 hour before sex. Just rub it in.

Some doctors have it compounded with a little bit of 0.5% estriol vaginal cream

for insertion.

Good luck

>

> Gentlemen...thank you all for the comments.

>  

> Thanks so much Phil.  I'm so glad you understand my situation.  I did have

an RT3 problem which is presently under control with the T3.   But, I am glad

that you responded and told me of a few things I can try.  Yes, I do know about

the side effects of the high level Testosteron.  So far have not had to deal

with any of these to the degree that I would stop the supplementation.  I did

wonder why lately my libido(been good for about 4months now) had taken a dive

and also wondered why each time I took the Estrogen I had problems with the

cramping.  I just experimented where I stopped taking my E for about 3-4 days,

then today I took 1mg today and sure enough the cramping started up again. 

So, I will take your advice and stay off of the Estrogen for awhile until I can

get some labwork done.  I'll also look into the DIM in case

my Estrogen levels continue to remain high once I stop the oral

supplementation. 

>

<snip>

[Guest guest]

Some time ago I went on Growth Hormone a low dose .3mgs or .9 IU's per day.

After a time I went hyper on my Armour meds was doing 4 grams / day. We thought

I was sweating like mad and having feels of Panic due to high Estradiol levels.

I take Arimidex to keep my Estradiol down. My lags showed my Thyroid went high

so we started backing off the Armour. I would cut back on it 30 mgs at a time

feel better for a few days then go hyper again.

I needed up stopping all my Armour I got down to 15 mgs and was still feeling

hyper. My temps were 99.7 and my BP was up with my heart beating fast.

Once I stopped the Armour I felt fine. My labs for Thyroid were good but as

time went on I could not stay on the GH to many sides.

So after stopping the GH I had to go back on Thyroid meds. My Free T4 levels

were allways very low on Armour so I asked my Dr. to let me try Synthroid. With

the Armour being pulled by the FDA and the new Armour that was out at my Thyroid

forum many men were not doing good on it. They were doing generic Synthroid

with some T3 added to it.

So I start on 150mcg of generic Synthroid and my labs look good Free T4 was up

but Free T3 just under mid range. So my Dr. added 5 mcgs of T3 today I take 150

mgs of Generic Synthroid with 5 mcgs of T3 2x's /day and I am doing great. My

Free T3 is just up pasted mid range I tried going up to 3 pills/ day of T3 but I

felt hyper.

You can try doing this most of the people I take to don't do well on the new

Armour and the Naturethyroid or Westthyroid have changed there fillers and don't

work as good as they use to.

So most people are getting the med called Thyroid by ERFA Canada Inc. So much

so there are shortages on it.

http://www.universaldrugstore.com/medications/Thyroid/60mg

I feel if you have fixed your problems that caused your RT3 it's time to come

down on T3 and try going back to what you did before RT3. Or try the ERFA or

try what a lot of people like myself are doing gendric Sythriod with T3.

Talk to Val. about doing this when people ask me what to do about RT3 I tell

them first make sure it's causing you a problem to the point you need to do T3

only to get it down. If not try to fix the stress in your life that is doing

making the RT3 go up. Or try whats in this link. In this link it works just

takes longer but it's safer.

http://www.custommedicine.com.au/health-articles/reverse-t3-dominance/

After all your brain needs T4 it makes it own Thyroid from it for your brain.

Here is a Cut and Paste from a Great Dr. I know that feels most mental probems

in people are hormones.

====================================================

#1

Drno

Physician, Psychiatrist

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Carmel, California

Posts: 611 Thyroid Hormone, the Blood Brain Barrier, and the Brain

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Original thread: http://www.definitivemind.com/forums...read.php?t=254

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolverine

Dr. no, do T4 and T3 cross the blood brain barrier only as free T4 and free

T3? Or do all forms of T4 and T3 get across? Some forms easier than others?

Since T4 and T3, in whatever form, are all measurements of serum concentrations,

can Total T4, Free T4, Total T3, and/or Free T3 (or some combination) be used to

infer CSF concentrations?

I believe that this becomes an issue when desiccated thyroid is used as sole

replacement therapy. Often this results in normal (or high normal) Free T4, Free

T3, and Total T3, but markedly sub-normal Total T4. In this scenario, if CNS

hypothyroidism were suspected (and I'm not sure what symptoms would

differentiate CNS from peripheral hypothyroidism), would it be desirable, e.g.,

to achieve a normal Total T4 by decreasing the dose of desiccated thyroid and

adding pure T4?

Thanks.

T3 and T4 are bound to three proteins in the blood:

Thyroid Binding Globulin (also called Thyroxine-Binding Globulin, TBG)

Transthyretin

Albumin

The distribution of thyroid hormones and binding proteins are approximately:

T4: 68% to TBG, 11 % to Transthyretin, 20 % to Albumin

T3: 80 % to TBG, 9 % to Transthyretin, 11 % to Albumin

T4 has a stronger bond to TBG.

T3 has a stronger bond to Transthyretin

Both T3 and T4 have a much weaker bond (approximately 100 to 1000 x less) to

Albumin.

The thyroid hormones dynamically change between the free state and the bound

state. Since the bond to Albumin is weaker, much of what is bound to Albumin may

be free at any given moment, but won't be registered as Free T3 or Free T4. Some

portion of T3 and T4 is also free at any given moment but may not be registered

as Free T3 or Free T4.

Free T3 and Free T4 give you only a snapshot - one moment in time - of the

state. But this state varies from moment to moment.

This is why it is useful to take Total T3 and Total T4 into account to help

determine total thyroid function.

This is analogous to Testosterone. Some use " bioavailable " testosterone as a

measure of testosterone signaling activity. This would represent testosterone

that is free and testosterone that is loosely bound to albumin. However, even

tightly bound testosterone to sex-hormone binding globulin (SHBG) has signaling

functions via induced conformational changes in the SHBG molecule then binding

of testosterone-bound SHBG to SHBG receptors.

---

Thyroid hormone does not directly diffuse into cells.

Thyroid hormone is transported across cell membranes by various transporter

molecules. In the brain and in the blood brain barrier (BBB), two known

transporter molecules are Thyroid Hormone Transporter Molecule MCT8 and Organic

Anion Transporting Polypeptide OATP1C1. MCT8 is also produced in heart, kidney,

liver, and skeletal muscle.

There are two blood brain barriers: The Blood Brain Barrier Endothelial cells

that line the blood vessels of the brain and are connected to astrocytes of the

brain, and the Blood Cerebral Spinal Fluid Barrier Choroid Plexus Epithelial

Cells that connect the blood to the Cerebopinal Fluid. The Choroid Plexus

filters blood in order to produce Cerebrospinal Fluid.

From blood, T3 and T4 enter the brain via two paths:

1. T3 and T4 are transported into a BBB Endothelium Cell (via OATP). T3 and T4

are then transferred into an attached Astrocyte. In the Astrocyte, Deiodinase D2

coverts T4 to T3. T3 then exits the Astrocyte via MCT8. T3 then enters neurons

via MCT8 transporters.

2. T3 and T4 are transported into Blood Cerebral Spinal Fluid Barrier Choroid

Plexus Epithelial Cells (via MCT8). They they exit the choroid plexus (via OATP)

and enter the Cerebrospinal Fluid (CSF). From the CSF, T3 and T4 are taken up by

Tanycytes or Astrocytes. These cells have D2 Diodinase, which convert T4 to T3.

Upon exiting these cells, T3 enters neurons.

Notably, neurons have Diodinase D3 enzyme which converts T4 to reverse T3 and T3

to T2.

The presence of thyroid hormone can reduce production of OATP as part of a

negative feedback loop control.

---

Within brain cells, there are variations nuclear membrane thyroid transporters.

Usually, 90 % of the intracellular T3 is located in the cytosol and 10 % is in

the nucleus. In the pituitary gland's cells, however, 50 % of T3 is in the

nucleus.

---

Adding to the complexity of how thyroid hormone works, there is an Intracellular

T3 Binding Protein (CTPB) which is produced in high amounts in the brain and

heart, though is also widespread in production in the body.

---

Serum measurements of thyroid hormone can't be used to infer CSF concentrations.

Only a spinal tap will be able to tell what the CSF concentrations are.

---

Brain thyroid hormone levels and T3 to T4 ratios are going to be determined at

several levels.

For example, the number and types and location of thyroid transporters

determines what amount of thyroid hormone gets through.

Variations in the genes for the thyroid transporter molecules will determine how

effective they are and how selective they are for T3 or T4 transport - creating

a difference between Blood and Brain concentrations of Thyroid hormones.

Variations in Astrocyte and Tanycyte Diodinase D2 production will determine T3

to T4 conversions in the brain, which may be different from the blood.

etc.

---

From my point of view, given the differences that can arise in blood versus

brain levels of thyroid hormone and thyroid hormone conversion, it is important

to consider in some patients to not only optimize T3 but to also optimize T4

levels.

This is important, for example, in mood disorders. Here, the difference between

T3 and T4 treatment becomes apparent.

In major depressive disorder, historically, T3 is a more effective treatment

than T4 in reducing depressive symptoms. Spectulating: perhaps T4 to T3

conversion in the brain's astrocytes and tanycytes is impaired by lack of D2

Diodinase production, among other possible problems in brain thyroid hormone

metabolism.

In bipolar disorder, historically, T4 is much more effective than T3 in

stabilizing mood. T4 may be used medicinally to reach " hyperthyroid " levels -

based on TSH measurements - in psychiatry to stabilize mood in bipolar disorder.

Speculating: perhaps, in bipolar disorder, there is a gene mutation in one of

the thyroid transport molecules which selectively impairs T3 transport.

If a person is having problems with a T3 treatment or Armour Thyroid Treatment

(which is primarily a T3 treatment), then perhaps adding a T4 treatment would be

useful. Some patients benefit from combinations of thyroid treatments (e.g. T3 +

T4, Armour Thyroid + Levothyroxine) better than single treatments alone.

__________________

-

Romeo B. no, MD, physician, psychiatrist

Any information provided on www.definitivemind.com is for informational purposes

only, is not medical advice, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or

liability, is not exhaustive, does not cover all conditions or their treatment,

and will change as knowledge progresses. Always seek the advice of your

physician or other qualified health provider before undertaking any diet,

exercise, supplement, medical, or other health program.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last edited by Drno; 08-16-2009 at 09:07 PM.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > >

> > > > From: <cinkourk@...>

> > > > Subject: Cramping with

> > Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> > > >

> > > > Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 4:08 PM

> > > > Hi Phil,

> > > >

> > > > I'm female...52 yrs. old.   It has been

> > > > suggested from one of the members of Val

> > 's

> > > > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3 group that I join your

> group

> > to ask a few

> > > > questions regarding some problems that I am

> > having with SHBG

> > > > and my female hormones.

> > > >

> > > > Since I've started on a T3 only regimen I

> think I

> > may have

> > > > developed a a problem with my testosterone

> > converting to

> > > > Estrogen. My Estrogen levels were alright

> when I

> > had my last

> > > > labs done but since this time I have

> increased

> > my

> > > > testosterone dose.   I was taking 1.5mg

> > > > Estradial and I also take .5 ml Cypionate

> > Testosterone

> > > > injections IM weekly.   Also take 400mg

> > > > Progesterone daily.  I have been having

> > terrible

> > > > menstrual type cramps and my hair loss and

> dry

> > skin have

> > > > returned.  I am post meno for six yrs.

> now.  I

> > > > have not had any type of bleeding since

> this

> > time...only the

> > > > cramping when I take my Estrogen

> presently.  I

> > tried

> > > > dropping my E dose down to 1mg daily and I

> still

> > have the

> > > > problems.   Does this sound like I am

> having

> > > > problems with the T converting to E??  Not

> sure

> > if you

> > > > know much about the female side of all of

> this

> > but I would

> > > > really appreciate any insight if you could

> > provide some

> > > > answers.  I am really at a loss. 

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Phil, thanks so much for all of the information. It is very helpful. I wanted

to also mention that I just started taking stinging nettle yesterday. I had

taken it in the past to help lower my shbg. Don't really know why I stopped. I

did find out that Val also has the high shbg and has recently started taking the

nettle. I also have another product that I am taking in conjunction with the

stinging nettle. Not sure if I can mention product names on your group. I had

cramping all night last night. I thought it possibly was from the nettle

releasing the Testosterone and then it once again converting to the Estrogen.

Does this sound correct? I'm doing ok today. I took more nettle and the other

product this morning...No Estrogen taken today and no cramping or breast

tenderness yet.

I am a little leary of bring the T4 back into the picture. I had been doing so

well until this Testosterone problem. But, I do also realize that my shbg will

remain high on the T3 only unless I bring the T4 back. Or, could the stinging

nettle be a helpful choice?? Do you know much about the nettle for lowering the

shbg? If it is alright I could also tell you the other product I am taking to

see if you have ever heard of anyone taking it with success to lower the shbg.

I do appreciate your help on this mostly male site. I had heard that you knew

so much about the effects of Testosterone...male and female. Your information

is helpful.

Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > > From: <cinkourk@>

> > > > > Subject: Cramping with

> > > Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 4:08 PM

> > > > > Hi Phil,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm female...52 yrs. old.   It has been

> > > > > suggested from one of the members of Val

> > > 's

> > > > > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3 group that I join your

> > group

> > > to ask a few

> > > > > questions regarding some problems that I am

> > > having with SHBG

> > > > > and my female hormones.

> > > > >

> > > > > Since I've started on a T3 only regimen I

> > think I

> > > may have

> > > > > developed a a problem with my testosterone

> > > converting to

> > > > > Estrogen. My Estrogen levels were alright

> > when I

> > > had my last

> > > > > labs done but since this time I have

> > increased

> > > my

> > > > > testosterone dose.   I was taking 1.5mg

> > > > > Estradial and I also take .5 ml Cypionate

> > > Testosterone

> > > > > injections IM weekly.   Also take 400mg

> > > > > Progesterone daily.  I have been having

> > > terrible

> > > > > menstrual type cramps and my hair loss and

> > dry

> > > skin have

> > > > > returned.  I am post meno for six yrs.

> > now.  I

> > > > > have not had any type of bleeding since

> > this

> > > time...only the

> > > > > cramping when I take my Estrogen

> > presently.  I

> > > tried

> > > > > dropping my E dose down to 1mg daily and I

> > still

> > > have the

> > > > > problems.   Does this sound like I am

> > having

> > > > > problems with the T converting to E??  Not

> > sure

> > > if you

> > > > > know much about the female side of all of

> > this

> > > but I would

> > > > > really appreciate any insight if you could

> > > provide some

> > > > > answers.  I am really at a loss. 

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Gin2c, Thanks for the suggestion of the T cream. I do not have any compounded

T cream at present but might ask my Dr. next visit if I could get a script.

I take 400mg oral Progesterone. My P levels in Novemeber were 15.4with range

being(10-20). So, I guess my body is absorbing the oral fairly well. I had

used the creams in the past for all hormones but this new Dr. switched me to

oral.

Thanks for the suggestions,

> >

> > Gentlemen...thank you all for the comments.

> >  

> > Thanks so much Phil.  I'm so glad you understand my situation.  I did have

an RT3 problem which is presently under control with the T3.   But, I am glad

that you responded and told me of a few things I can try.  Yes, I do know about

the side effects of the high level Testosteron.  So far have not had to deal

with any of these to the degree that I would stop the supplementation.  I did

wonder why lately my libido(been good for about 4months now) had taken a dive

and also wondered why each time I took the Estrogen I had problems with the

cramping.  I just experimented where I stopped taking my E for about 3-4 days,

then today I took 1mg today and sure enough the cramping started up again. 

So, I will take your advice and stay off of the Estrogen for awhile until I can

get some labwork done.  I'll also look into the DIM in case

my Estrogen levels continue to remain high once I stop the oral

supplementation. 

> >

>

> <snip>

>

[Guest guest]

A lot of the man on TRT trying to get there high SHBG down would post about this

at my friends forum Dr. . He is one of the top male hormone Dr.'s in the

world. He feels get your hormones in balance and let SHBG find it's best level.

So no it's not good to try to move SHBG it goes up or down for a reasion like if

you have to much Testosterone on your body it will rase SHBG to bind it up so

your Free T dose not spicke to high. Just an exanple. The same goes for adding

T3 the body is trying to rid it's self of this high T3 by rasing SHBG. The body

use's SHBG to corect hormones that are out of balance. So Dr. feels doing

mess with this balance by taking some thing to lower SHBG when we know it's from

high Testosterone or to much T3 every high Estradiol will raise SHBG.

Some cut and pasteing form info I have.

===================================================

One further complication of excess estrogen is that it increases the body's

production of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). SHBG binds free testosterone

in the blood and makes it unavailable to cell receptor sites

---------------------------------------------------

In this cut you will see it dose not matter how high you get your testosterone

if your SHBG is high it will not help with your libido.

Estrogen can also increase the production of SHBG, which binds the active free

testosterone into an inactive " bound testosterone. " Bound testosterone cannot be

picked up by testosterone receptors on cell membranes. For testosterone to

produce long-lasting, libido-enhancing effects, it must be kept in the " free "

form (not bound to SHBG) in the bloodstream. It is also necessary to suppress

excess estrogen because this hormone can compete for testosterone receptor sites

in the sex centers of the brain and the genitals.

---------------------------------------------------

So here you will read in this cut getting your Estradiol levels down by stopping

the supplement for it or by taking Indolplex/DIM will lower your Estradiol and

lower your SHBG.

Lifestyle Changes

Lifestyle changes (such as reducing alcohol intake) can produce a dramatic

improvement in the estrogen-testosterone balance, but many people need to use

aromatase-inhibiting agents to lower estrogen and to improve their liver

function to remove excess SHBG. Aromatase converts testosterone into estrogen

and can indirectly increase SHBG. SHBG binds to free testosterone and prevents

it from exerting its biochemical effects in the body.

--------------------------------------------------

In this cut Dr. M shows what makes SHBG go up or down. Your Prog. cream might

be making it high.

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvestmentBanker

I am confused because I am told that my high SHBG is NOT good either. Is Dr. M

saying anything not considered low is okay? Mine hovers in the mid to high 60's

(nmol/L). What I did notice is when I took Danazol to drive it down my Total T

went way down as well. When I got SHBG down 50% to around 30 nmol/L my Total T

went down 65% to around 400 ng/dL. Why is that?

SHGB (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin):

Let's look at what influences SHBG:

Increases SHBG:

Estrogens (particularly Estradiol)

Progesterone (by increasing Estrogen receptors)

Thyroid Hormone (particularly Hyperthyroidism)

Liver Disease

Anorexia, Starvation

Hypoglycemia (low insulin)

Reduces SHBG:

Insulin (and insulin resistance)

Testosterone

Growth Hormone

DHEA

Other Androgens

Obesity

Hypothyroidism

Excessive Cortisol (Cushing's Syndrome or Disease)

Progestins (such as by blocking progesterone's effects)

Excessively high SHBG may indicate factors increasing SHBG may be in excess in

thus should be addressed. For example, an excess of Estrogen to testosterone may

result in high SHBG.

Since SHBG is determined by several hormones, it is not generally a good

component to address directly. Rather the influences affecting SHBG should be

addressed independently of SHBG.

Testosterone replacement alone will drive down SHBG. Low SHBG, high free

testosterone but LOW total testosterone is common in diabetes.

From my point of view, overly focusing on SHBG when trying to improve libido

once total testosterone is raised to at least 650 ng/dL is a fairly narrow point

of view.

Free Testosterone is only a fraction of Testosterone signaling. Free

Testosterone too often does not determine libido.

One can use Bioavailable Testosterone as a measure of testosterone's signaling

strength. I, myself, consider total testosterone more important. Testosterone

which isn't free - but is bound to SHBG - also has signaling function on SHBG

receptors. To take this function into account, I use total testosterone as a

clearer measure of testosterone signaling.

If one focuses on the factors that determine SHBG and focus on optimizing them

or treating the disease condition involved, then one hardly needs to measure

SHBG at all.

High or low, SHBG indicates something is wrong but does not tell you what is

wrong. Thus, alone, it is not a useful measure.

SHBG within the reference range also doesn't tell if something is wrong. Factors

that influence SHBG can cancel each other out, thus SHBG will be in the

reference range.

Thus, one still has to optimize each factor that influences SHBG separately.

As a result of these considerations, SHBG is a minor player. I would look at the

other issues that influence SHBG instead in their own right as more important

considerations.

----------

DANAZOL:

Danazol is an androgen which lowers LH (Luteinizing hormone) and FSH (Follicle

Stimulating Hormone) production. It is used in the treatment of endometriosis by

driving estrogen production downwards. It is also indicated for fibrocystic

breast disease and hereditary angioedema. Obviously, as an androgen, it can

lower SHBG. Lowering SHGB and lowering LH would both reduce total testosterone.

I would not use Danazol in a man or woman for that matter. There are better

options for Fibrocystic breast disease (e.g. iodine) and endometriosis. However,

its use in hereditary angioedema may have utility.

__________________

-

Romeo B. no, MD, physician, psychiatrist

Any information provided on www.definitivemind.com is for informational purposes

only, is not medical advice, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or

liability, is not exhaustive, does not cover all conditions or their treatment,

and will change as knowledge progresses. Always seek the advice of your

physician or other qualified health provider before undertaking any diet,

exercise, supplement, medical, or other health program.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <cinkourk@...>

> Subject: Re: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

>

> Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 1:35 PM

> Phil, thanks so much for all of the

> information.  It is very helpful.   I

> wanted to also mention that I just started taking stinging

> nettle yesterday.  I had taken it in the past to help

> lower my shbg.  Don't really know why I stopped. 

> I did find out that Val also has the high shbg and has

> recently started taking the nettle.  I also have

> another product that I am taking in conjunction with the

> stinging nettle.  Not sure if I can mention product

> names on your group.  I had cramping all night last

> night.  I thought it possibly was from the nettle

> releasing the Testosterone and then it once again converting

> to the Estrogen.  Does this sound correct?  I'm

> doing ok today.  I took more nettle and the other

> product this morning...No Estrogen taken today and no

> cramping or breast tenderness yet.

>

> I am a little leary of bring the T4 back into the

> picture.  I had  been doing so well until this

> Testosterone problem.  But, I do also realize that my

> shbg will remain high on the T3 only unless I bring the T4

> back. Or, could the stinging nettle be a helpful

> choice??  Do you know much about the nettle for

> lowering the shbg? If it is alright I could also tell you

> the other product I am taking to see if you have ever heard

> of anyone taking it with success to lower the shbg.

>

> I do appreciate your help on this mostly male site.  I

> had heard that you knew so much about the effects of

> Testosterone...male and female.   Your

> information is helpful.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: <cinkourk@>

> > > > > > Subject: Cramping

> with

> > > > Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010,

> 4:08 PM

> > > > > > Hi Phil,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm female...52 yrs. old.   It

> has been

> > > > > > suggested from one of the members

> of Val

> > > > 's

> > > > > > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3 group that I

> join your

> > > group

> > > > to ask a few

> > > > > > questions regarding some problems

> that I am

> > > > having with SHBG

> > > > > > and my female hormones.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since I've started on a T3 only

> regimen I

> > > think I

> > > > may have

> > > > > > developed a a problem with my

> testosterone

> > > > converting to

> > > > > > Estrogen. My Estrogen levels were

> alright

> > > when I

> > > > had my last

> > > > > > labs done but since this time I

> have

> > > increased

> > > > my

> > > > > > testosterone dose.   I was

> taking 1.5mg

> > > > > > Estradial and I also take .5 ml

> Cypionate

> > > > Testosterone

> > > > > > injections IM weekly.   Also

> take 400mg

> > > > > > Progesterone daily.  I have been

> having

> > > > terrible

> > > > > > menstrual type cramps and my hair

> loss and

> > > dry

> > > > skin have

> > > > > > returned.  I am post meno for six

> yrs.

> > > now.  I

> > > > > > have not had any type of bleeding

> since

> > > this

> > > > time...only the

> > > > > > cramping when I take my Estrogen

> > > presently.  I

> > > > tried

> > > > > > dropping my E dose down to 1mg

> daily and I

> > > still

> > > > have the

> > > > > > problems.   Does this sound

> like I am

> > > having

> > > > > > problems with the T converting to

> E??  Not

> > > sure

> > > > if you

> > > > > > know much about the female side of

> all of

> > > this

> > > > but I would

> > > > > > really appreciate any insight if

> you could

> > > > provide some

> > > > > > answers.  I am really at a

> loss. 

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Wow ,

I just took it your were using Prog. cream pills are not good they change into

other things going through the liver and GOD only knows what they end up being

it's not good to do hormones in pills.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <cinkourk@...>

> Subject: Re: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

>

> Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 1:44 PM

> Gin2c,  Thanks for the

> suggestion of the T cream.   I do not have

> any compounded T cream at present but might ask my Dr. next

> visit if I could get a script. 

>

> I take 400mg oral Progesterone.  My P levels in

> Novemeber were 15.4with range being(10-20).  So, I

> guess my body is absorbing the oral fairly well.  I had

> used the creams in the past for all hormones but this new

> Dr. switched me to oral. 

>

> Thanks for the suggestions,

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Gentlemen...thank you all for the comments.

> > >  

> > > Thanks so much Phil.  I'm so glad you

> understand my situation.  I did have an RT3 problem which

> is presently under control with the T3.   But, I am

> glad that you responded and told me of a few things I can

> try.  Yes, I do know about the side effects of the high

> level Testosteron.  So far have not had to deal with any

> of these to the degree that I would stop the

> supplementation.  I did wonder why lately my libido(been

> good for about 4months now) had taken a dive and also

> wondered why each time I took the Estrogen I had problems

> with the cramping.  I just experimented where I stopped

> taking my E for about 3-4 days, then today I took 1mg

> today and sure enough the cramping started up again. 

> So, I will take your advice and stay off of the Estrogen for

> awhile until I can get some labwork done.  I'll also look

> into the DIM in case my Estrogen levels continue to

> remain high once I stop the oral supplementation. 

> > >

> >

> > <snip>

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil, this is a perfect explanation.  I totally understand.  I appreciate the

time you took to explain and quote examples.   I will stop the stinging nettle

and try the DIM as soon as I can place an order.  In the meantime I will wait

until next week, let this stinging nettle clear out of my system and get my

hormones retested.  I suppose if I totally stop my estrogen replacement this

may allow my shbg to come down on it's own a little as well.   

 

Thank you so much,

> From: <cinkourk@...>

> Subject: Re: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

>

> Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 1:35 PM

> Phil, thanks so much for all of the

> information.  It is very helpful.   I

> wanted to also mention that I just started taking stinging

> nettle yesterday.  I had taken it in the past to help

> lower my shbg.  Don't really know why I stopped. 

> I did find out that Val also has the high shbg and has

> recently started taking the nettle.  I also have

> another product that I am taking in conjunction with the

> stinging nettle.  Not sure if I can mention product

> names on your group.  I had cramping all night last

> night.  I thought it possibly was from the nettle

> releasing the Testosterone and then it once again converting

> to the Estrogen.  Does this sound correct?  I'm

> doing ok today.  I took more nettle and the other

> product this morning...No Estrogen taken today and no

> cramping or breast tenderness yet.

>

> I am a little leary of bring the T4 back into the

> picture.  I had  been doing so well until this

> Testosterone problem.  But, I do also realize that my

> shbg will remain high on the T3 only unless I bring the T4

> back. Or, could the stinging nettle be a helpful

> choice??  Do you know much about the nettle for

> lowering the shbg? If it is alright I could also tell you

> the other product I am taking to see if you have ever heard

> of anyone taking it with success to lower the shbg.

>

> I do appreciate your help on this mostly male site.  I

> had heard that you knew so much about the effects of

> Testosterone...male and female.   Your

> information is helpful.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > > From: <cinkourk@>

> > > > > > Subject: Cramping

> with

> > > > Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010,

> 4:08 PM

> > > > > > Hi Phil,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm female...52 yrs. old.   It

> has been

> > > > > > suggested from one of the members

> of Val

> > > > 's

> > > > > > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3 group that I

> join your

> > > group

> > > > to ask a few

> > > > > > questions regarding some problems

> that I am

> > > > having with SHBG

> > > > > > and my female hormones.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since I've started on a T3 only

> regimen I

> > > think I

> > > > may have

> > > > > > developed a a problem with my

> testosterone

> > > > converting to

> > > > > > Estrogen. My Estrogen levels were

> alright

> > > when I

> > > > had my last

> > > > > > labs done but since this time I

> have

> > > increased

> > > > my

> > > > > > testosterone dose.   I was

> taking 1.5mg

> > > > > > Estradial and I also take .5 ml

> Cypionate

> > > > Testosterone

> > > > > > injections IM weekly.   Also

> take 400mg

> > > > > > Progesterone daily.  I have been

> having

> > > > terrible

> > > > > > menstrual type cramps and my hair

> loss and

> > > dry

> > > > skin have

> > > > > > returned.  I am post meno for six

> yrs.

> > > now.  I

> > > > > > have not had any type of bleeding

> since

> > > this

> > > > time...only the

> > > > > > cramping when I take my Estrogen

> > > presently.  I

> > > > tried

> > > > > > dropping my E dose down to 1mg

> daily and I

> > > still

> > > > have the

> > > > > > problems.   Does this sound

> like I am

> > > having

> > > > > > problems with the T converting to

> E??  Not

> > > sure

> > > > if you

> > > > > > know much about the female side of

> all of

> > > this

> > > > but I would

> > > > > > really appreciate any insight if

> you could

> > > > provide some

> > > > > > answers.  I am really at a

> loss. 

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Ok, again makes sense and thanks.   I have used the P cream up until about

six months ago then was changed to oral.    I will ask my Dr. to change me

back to creams.  My levels back in May 2010 while on the creams were low -

 2.3 (1.84 - 30.2) and I was taking .5ml of 10% P cream at night.   My Dr.

has said that I should be in the 10-20 range.   Are you in agreement with

these ranges he recommends and could you possibly tell by the above number how

much I should increase in order to be in a good range.   Wow, I'm so impressed

with how much female knowlede you have as well.  I know very little about the

dosing equivalents in regards to increasing by ml or by % of cream for dose. 

Would love to hear your advice.

 

Thanks,

> From: <cinkourk@...>

> Subject: Re: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

>

> Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 1:44 PM

> Gin2c,  Thanks for the

> suggestion of the T cream.   I do not have

> any compounded T cream at present but might ask my Dr. next

> visit if I could get a script. 

>

> I take 400mg oral Progesterone.  My P levels in

> Novemeber were 15.4with range being(10-20).  So, I

> guess my body is absorbing the oral fairly well.  I had

> used the creams in the past for all hormones but this new

> Dr. switched me to oral. 

>

> Thanks for the suggestions,

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Gentlemen...thank you all for the comments.

> > >  

> > > Thanks so much Phil.  I'm so glad you

> understand my situation.  I did have an RT3 problem which

> is presently under control with the T3.   But, I am

> glad that you responded and told me of a few things I can

> try.  Yes, I do know about the side effects of the high

> level Testosteron.  So far have not had to deal with any

> of these to the degree that I would stop the

> supplementation.  I did wonder why lately my libido(been

> good for about 4months now) had taken a dive and also

> wondered why each time I took the Estrogen I had problems

> with the cramping.  I just experimented where I stopped

> taking my E for about 3-4 days, then today I took 1mg

> today and sure enough the cramping started up again. 

> So, I will take your advice and stay off of the Estrogen for

> awhile until I can get some labwork done.  I'll also look

> into the DIM in case my Estrogen levels continue to

> remain high once I stop the oral supplementation. 

> > >

> >

> > <snip>

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes this will help bring down your Estradiol levels and free up your

Testosterone levels Free that is. So maybe you can lower your shot dose. Also

stop the Prog. pills go on the cream you can buy this from Life-Flo 20 mgs take

it at bed time if your levels fall off this works much better.

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Flo-Health-Progesta-Care-Complete-Body-Cream-4-oz/1646\

8?at=0

Tell Val what you learned here if she needs help.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: <cinkourk@...>

> > Subject: Re: Cramping with

> Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> >

> > Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 1:35 PM

> > Phil, thanks so much for all of the

> > information.  It is very helpful.   I

> > wanted to also mention that I just started taking

> stinging

> > nettle yesterday.  I had taken it in the past to

> help

> > lower my shbg.  Don't really know why I stopped. 

> > I did find out that Val also has the high shbg and

> has

> > recently started taking the nettle.  I also have

> > another product that I am taking in conjunction with

> the

> > stinging nettle.  Not sure if I can mention product

> > names on your group.  I had cramping all night last

> > night.  I thought it possibly was from the nettle

> > releasing the Testosterone and then it once again

> converting

> > to the Estrogen.  Does this sound correct?  I'm

> > doing ok today.  I took more nettle and the other

> > product this morning...No Estrogen taken today and no

> > cramping or breast tenderness yet.

> >

> > I am a little leary of bring the T4 back into the

> > picture.  I had  been doing so well until this

> > Testosterone problem.  But, I do also realize that

> my

> > shbg will remain high on the T3 only unless I bring

> the T4

> > back. Or, could the stinging nettle be a helpful

> > choice??  Do you know much about the nettle for

> > lowering the shbg? If it is alright I could also tell

> you

> > the other product I am taking to see if you have ever

> heard

> > of anyone taking it with success to lower the shbg.

> >

> > I do appreciate your help on this mostly male site. 

> I

> > had heard that you knew so much about the effects of

> > Testosterone...male and female.   Your

> > information is helpful.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > From:

> <cinkourk@>

> > > > > > > Subject:

> Cramping

> > with

> > > > > Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Date: Sunday, December 19,

> 2010,

> > 4:08 PM

> > > > > > > Hi Phil,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm female...52 yrs.

> old.   It

> > has been

> > > > > > > suggested from one of the

> members

> > of Val

> > > > > 's

> > > > > > > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3 group that

> I

> > join your

> > > > group

> > > > > to ask a few

> > > > > > > questions regarding some

> problems

> > that I am

> > > > > having with SHBG

> > > > > > > and my female hormones.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Since I've started on a T3

> only

> > regimen I

> > > > think I

> > > > > may have

> > > > > > > developed a a problem with

> my

> > testosterone

> > > > > converting to

> > > > > > > Estrogen. My Estrogen levels

> were

> > alright

> > > > when I

> > > > > had my last

> > > > > > > labs done but since this time

> I

> > have

> > > > increased

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > testosterone dose.   I

> was

> > taking 1.5mg

> > > > > > > Estradial and I also take .5

> ml

> > Cypionate

> > > > > Testosterone

> > > > > > > injections IM

> weekly.   Also

> > take 400mg

> > > > > > > Progesterone daily.  I have

> been

> > having

> > > > > terrible

> > > > > > > menstrual type cramps and my

> hair

> > loss and

> > > > dry

> > > > > skin have

> > > > > > > returned.  I am post meno

> for six

> > yrs.

> > > > now.  I

> > > > > > > have not had any type of

> bleeding

> > since

> > > > this

> > > > > time...only the

> > > > > > > cramping when I take my

> Estrogen

> > > > presently.  I

> > > > > tried

> > > > > > > dropping my E dose down to

> 1mg

> > daily and I

> > > > still

> > > > > have the

> > > > > > > problems.   Does this

> sound

> > like I am

> > > > having

> > > > > > > problems with the T

> converting to

> > E??  Not

> > > > sure

> > > > > if you

> > > > > > > know much about the female

> side of

> > all of

> > > > this

> > > > > but I would

> > > > > > > really appreciate any insight

> if

> > you could

> > > > > provide some

> > > > > > > answers.  I am really at a

> > loss. 

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

You don't need a script from your Dr. in my last post I give you a link to

Life-Flo Prog. 20mgs cream if your levels doing get high enough on this do it

2x's / day. I don't like to go by labs some people do great at lower levels

other need higher levels go by how you feel. You need to start a log keeping a

day to day log on how your feeling and what you doing. By doing this you will

be able to tell what your hormones are doing and witch ones are doing it. I can

tell by how I feel if my Estradiol levels are going to high or if I am taking to

much Arimidex and driving them to low.

My Dr. lets me dose by how I feel when it comes to my Estradiol levels both men

and women need good levels of Estradiol but the sweet spot is small in the range

and changes day to day for some and other week to week never stays the same.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: <cinkourk@...>

> > Subject: Re: Cramping with

> Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> >

> > Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 1:44 PM

> > Gin2c,  Thanks for the

> > suggestion of the T cream.   I do not have

> > any compounded T cream at present but might ask my Dr.

> next

> > visit if I could get a script. 

> >

> > I take 400mg oral Progesterone.  My P levels in

> > Novemeber were 15.4with range being(10-20).  So, I

> > guess my body is absorbing the oral fairly well.  I

> had

> > used the creams in the past for all hormones but this

> new

> > Dr. switched me to oral. 

> >

> > Thanks for the suggestions,

> >

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > Gentlemen...thank you all for the comments.

> > > >  

> > > > Thanks so much Phil.  I'm so glad you

> > understand my situation.  I did have an RT3 problem

> which

> > is presently under control with the T3.   But, I

> am

> > glad that you responded and told me of a few things I

> can

> > try.  Yes, I do know about the side effects of the

> high

> > level Testosteron.  So far have not had to deal

> with any

> > of these to the degree that I would stop the

> > supplementation.  I did wonder why lately my

> libido(been

> > good for about 4months now) had taken a dive and

> also

> > wondered why each time I took the Estrogen I had

> problems

> > with the cramping.  I just experimented where I

> stopped

> > taking my E for about 3-4 days, then today I took 1mg

> > today and sure enough the cramping started up

> again. 

> > So, I will take your advice and stay off of the

> Estrogen for

> > awhile until I can get some labwork done.  I'll

> also look

> > into the DIM in case my Estrogen levels continue

> to

> > remain high once I stop the oral supplementation. 

>

> > > >

> > >

> > > <snip>

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I certainly will give this a try and thank you again soooo much!! It helps to

understand the process rather than trying to fool the whole human system. I

will pass the info along to Val.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From:

> > <cinkourk@>

> > > > > > > > Subject:

> > Cramping

> > > with

> > > > > > Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, December 19,

> > 2010,

> > > 4:08 PM

> > > > > > > > Hi Phil,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm female...52 yrs.

> > old.   It

> > > has been

> > > > > > > > suggested from one of the

> > members

> > > of Val

> > > > > > 's

> > > > > > > > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3 group that

> > I

> > > join your

> > > > > group

> > > > > > to ask a few

> > > > > > > > questions regarding some

> > problems

> > > that I am

> > > > > > having with SHBG

> > > > > > > > and my female hormones.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Since I've started on a T3

> > only

> > > regimen I

> > > > > think I

> > > > > > may have

> > > > > > > > developed a a problem with

> > my

> > > testosterone

> > > > > > converting to

> > > > > > > > Estrogen. My Estrogen levels

> > were

> > > alright

> > > > > when I

> > > > > > had my last

> > > > > > > > labs done but since this time

> > I

> > > have

> > > > > increased

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > testosterone dose.   I

> > was

> > > taking 1.5mg

> > > > > > > > Estradial and I also take .5

> > ml

> > > Cypionate

> > > > > > Testosterone

> > > > > > > > injections IM

> > weekly.   Also

> > > take 400mg

> > > > > > > > Progesterone daily.  I have

> > been

> > > having

> > > > > > terrible

> > > > > > > > menstrual type cramps and my

> > hair

> > > loss and

> > > > > dry

> > > > > > skin have

> > > > > > > > returned.  I am post meno

> > for six

> > > yrs.

> > > > > now.  I

> > > > > > > > have not had any type of

> > bleeding

> > > since

> > > > > this

> > > > > > time...only the

> > > > > > > > cramping when I take my

> > Estrogen

> > > > > presently.  I

> > > > > > tried

> > > > > > > > dropping my E dose down to

> > 1mg

> > > daily and I

> > > > > still

> > > > > > have the

> > > > > > > > problems.   Does this

> > sound

> > > like I am

> > > > > having

> > > > > > > > problems with the T

> > converting to

> > > E??  Not

> > > > > sure

> > > > > > if you

> > > > > > > > know much about the female

> > side of

> > > all of

> > > > > this

> > > > > > but I would

> > > > > > > > really appreciate any insight

> > if

> > > you could

> > > > > > provide some

> > > > > > > > answers.  I am really at a

> > > loss. 

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

This is how I found my sweet spot for the thyroid so I know just what you are

saying. I'll get started on it.

Thanks!

> > > > >

> > > > > Gentlemen...thank you all for the comments.

> > > > >  

> > > > > Thanks so much Phil.  I'm so glad you

> > > understand my situation.  I did have an RT3 problem

> > which

> > > is presently under control with the T3.   But, I

> > am

> > > glad that you responded and told me of a few things I

> > can

> > > try.  Yes, I do know about the side effects of the

> > high

> > > level Testosteron.  So far have not had to deal

> > with any

> > > of these to the degree that I would stop the

> > > supplementation.  I did wonder why lately my

> > libido(been

> > > good for about 4months now) had taken a dive and

> > also

> > > wondered why each time I took the Estrogen I had

> > problems

> > > with the cramping.  I just experimented where I

> > stopped

> > > taking my E for about 3-4 days, then today I took 1mg

> > > today and sure enough the cramping started up

> > again. 

> > > So, I will take your advice and stay off of the

> > Estrogen for

> > > awhile until I can get some labwork done.  I'll

> > also look

> > > into the DIM in case my Estrogen levels continue

> > to

> > > remain high once I stop the oral supplementation. 

> >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > <snip>

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Great anytime you need help if I can just ask. Tell Val I said HI.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <cinkourk@...>

> Subject: Re: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

>

> Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 4:40 PM

> I certainly will give this a try and

> thank you again soooo much!!   It helps to

> understand the process rather than trying to fool the whole

> human system.  I will pass the info along to Val.

>

>

>

>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From:

> > > <cinkourk@>

> > > > > > > > > Subject:

>

> > > Cramping

> > > > with

> > > > > > > Estrogen/weekly Testosterone

> shots

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Sunday,

> December 19,

> > > 2010,

> > > > 4:08 PM

> > > > > > > > > Hi Phil,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'm female...52

> yrs.

> > > old.   It

> > > > has been

> > > > > > > > > suggested from one

> of the

> > > members

> > > > of Val

> > > > > > > 's

> > > > > > > > > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3

> group that

> > > I

> > > > join your

> > > > > > group

> > > > > > > to ask a few

> > > > > > > > > questions regarding

> some

> > > problems

> > > > that I am

> > > > > > > having with SHBG

> > > > > > > > > and my female

> hormones.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Since I've started

> on a T3

> > > only

> > > > regimen I

> > > > > > think I

> > > > > > > may have

> > > > > > > > > developed a a

> problem with

> > > my

> > > > testosterone

> > > > > > > converting to

> > > > > > > > > Estrogen. My

> Estrogen levels

> > > were

> > > > alright

> > > > > > when I

> > > > > > > had my last

> > > > > > > > > labs done but since

> this time

> > > I

> > > > have

> > > > > > increased

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > testosterone

> dose.   I

> > > was

> > > > taking 1.5mg

> > > > > > > > > Estradial and I

> also take .5

> > > ml

> > > > Cypionate

> > > > > > > Testosterone

> > > > > > > > > injections IM

> > > weekly.   Also

> > > > take 400mg

> > > > > > > > > Progesterone

> daily.  I have

> > > been

> > > > having

> > > > > > > terrible

> > > > > > > > > menstrual type

> cramps and my

> > > hair

> > > > loss and

> > > > > > dry

> > > > > > > skin have

> > > > > > > > > returned.  I am

> post meno

> > > for six

> > > > yrs.

> > > > > > now.  I

> > > > > > > > > have not had any

> type of

> > > bleeding

> > > > since

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > time...only the

> > > > > > > > > cramping when I

> take my

> > > Estrogen

> > > > > > presently.  I

> > > > > > > tried

> > > > > > > > > dropping my E dose

> down to

> > > 1mg

> > > > daily and I

> > > > > > still

> > > > > > > have the

> > > > > > > > > problems.   Does

> this

> > > sound

> > > > like I am

> > > > > > having

> > > > > > > > > problems with the

> T

> > > converting to

> > > > E??  Not

> > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > if you

> > > > > > > > > know much about the

> female

> > > side of

> > > > all of

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > but I would

> > > > > > > > > really appreciate

> any insight

> > > if

> > > > you could

> > > > > > > provide some

> > > > > > > > > answers.  I am

> really at a

> > > > loss. 

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >     -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I will and thank you!!  I've already sent a message Val's way about the nettle

and our conversations.  I will certainly be in touch.  Especially once I get

my labwork back within the next few weeks.  I always run them past Val, but I

would love for you to take a look at them as well.

 

Take Care,

> From: <cinkourk@...>

> Subject: Re: Cramping with Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

>

> Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 4:40 PM

> I certainly will give this a try and

> thank you again soooo much!!   It helps to

> understand the process rather than trying to fool the whole

> human system.  I will pass the info along to Val.

>

>

>

>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From:

> > > <cinkourk@>

> > > > > > > > > Subject:

>

> > > Cramping

> > > > with

> > > > > > > Estrogen/weekly Testosterone

> shots

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Sunday,

> December 19,

> > > 2010,

> > > > 4:08 PM

> > > > > > > > > Hi Phil,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'm female...52

> yrs.

> > > old.   It

> > > > has been

> > > > > > > > > suggested from one

> of the

> > > members

> > > > of Val

> > > > > > > 's

> > > > > > > > > Hypothyroid/RT3/T3

> group that

> > > I

> > > > join your

> > > > > > group

> > > > > > > to ask a few

> > > > > > > > > questions regarding

> some

> > > problems

> > > > that I am

> > > > > > > having with SHBG

> > > > > > > > > and my female

> hormones.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Since I've started

> on a T3

> > > only

> > > > regimen I

> > > > > > think I

> > > > > > > may have

> > > > > > > > > developed a a

> problem with

> > > my

> > > > testosterone

> > > > > > > converting to

> > > > > > > > > Estrogen. My

> Estrogen levels

> > > were

> > > > alright

> > > > > > when I

> > > > > > > had my last

> > > > > > > > > labs done but since

> this time

> > > I

> > > > have

> > > > > > increased

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > testosterone

> dose.   I

> > > was

> > > > taking 1.5mg

> > > > > > > > > Estradial and I

> also take .5

> > > ml

> > > > Cypionate

> > > > > > > Testosterone

> > > > > > > > > injections IM

> > > weekly.   Also

> > > > take 400mg

> > > > > > > > > Progesterone

> daily.  I have

> > > been

> > > > having

> > > > > > > terrible

> > > > > > > > > menstrual type

> cramps and my

> > > hair

> > > > loss and

> > > > > > dry

> > > > > > > skin have

> > > > > > > > > returned.  I am

> post meno

> > > for six

> > > > yrs.

> > > > > > now.  I

> > > > > > > > > have not had any

> type of

> > > bleeding

> > > > since

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > time...only the

> > > > > > > > > cramping when I

> take my

> > > Estrogen

> > > > > > presently.  I

> > > > > > > tried

> > > > > > > > > dropping my E dose

> down to

> > > 1mg

> > > > daily and I

> > > > > > still

> > > > > > > have the

> > > > > > > > > problems.   Does

> this

> > > sound

> > > > like I am

> > > > > > having

> > > > > > > > > problems with the

> T

> > > converting to

> > > > E??  Not

> > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > if you

> > > > > > > > > know much about the

> female

> > > side of

> > > > all of

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > but I would

> > > > > > > > > really appreciate

> any insight

> > > if

> > > > you could

> > > > > > > provide some

> > > > > > > > > answers.  I am

> really at a

> > > > loss. 

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> Links

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >     -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> ------------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Sure but I am not as good at women's hormones as some people say I am.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: <cinkourk@...>

> > Subject: Re: Cramping with

> Estrogen/weekly Testosterone shots

> >

> > Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 4:40 PM

> > I certainly will give this a try and

> > thank you again soooo much!!   It helps to

> > understand the process rather than trying to fool the

> whole

> > human system.  I will pass the info along to Val.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > From:

> > > > <cinkourk@>

> > > > > > > > > > Subject:

> >

> > > > Cramping

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > Estrogen/weekly

> Testosterone

> > shots

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Date: Sunday,

> > December 19,

> > > > 2010,

> > > > > 4:08 PM

> > > > > > > > > > Hi Phil,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I'm

> female...52

> > yrs.

> > > > old.   It

> > > > > has been

> > > > > > > > > > suggested from

> one

> > of the

> > > > members

> > > > > of Val

> > > > > > > > 's

> > > > > > > > > >

> Hypothyroid/RT3/T3

> > group that

> > > > I

> > > > > join your

> > > > > > > group

> > > > > > > > to ask a few

> > > > > > > > > > questions

> regarding

> > some

> > > > problems

> > > > > that I am

> > > > > > > > having with SHBG

> > > > > > > > > > and my female

> > hormones.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Since I've

> started

> > on a T3

> > > > only

> > > > > regimen I

> > > > > > > think I

> > > > > > > > may have

> > > > > > > > > > developed a a

> > problem with

> > > > my

> > > > > testosterone

> > > > > > > > converting to

> > > > > > > > > > Estrogen. My

> > Estrogen levels

> > > > were

> > > > > alright

> > > > > > > when I

> > > > > > > > had my last

> > > > > > > > > > labs done but

> since

> > this time

> > > > I

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > increased

> > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > testosterone

> > dose.   I

> > > > was

> > > > > taking 1.5mg

> > > > > > > > > > Estradial and

> I

> > also take .5

> > > > ml

> > > > > Cypionate

> > > > > > > > Testosterone

> > > > > > > > > > injections IM

> > > > weekly.   Also

> > > > > take 400mg

> > > > > > > > > > Progesterone

> > daily.  I have

> > > > been

> > > > > having

> > > > > > > > terrible

> > > > > > > > > > menstrual

> type

> > cramps and my

> > > > hair

> > > > > loss and

> > > > > > > dry

> > > > > > > > skin have

> > > > > > > > > > returned.  I

> am

> > post meno

> > > > for six

> > > > > yrs.

> > > > > > > now.  I

> > > > > > > > > > have not had

> any

> > type of

> > > > bleeding

> > > > > since

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > time...only the

> > > > > > > > > > cramping when

> I

> > take my

> > > > Estrogen

> > > > > > > presently.  I

> > > > > > > > tried

> > > > > > > > > > dropping my E

> dose

> > down to

> > > > 1mg

> > > > > daily and I

> > > > > > > still

> > > > > > > > have the

> > > > > > > > > >

> problems.   Does

> > this

> > > > sound

> > > > > like I am

> > > > > > > having

> > > > > > > > > > problems with

> the

> > T

> > > > converting to

> > > > > E??  Not

> > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > if you

> > > > > > > > > > know much

> about the

> > female

> > > > side of

> > > > > all of

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > but I would

> > > > > > > > > > really

> appreciate

> > any insight

> > > > if

> > > > > you could

> > > > > > > > provide some

> > > > > > > > > > answers.  I

> am

> > really at a

> > > > > loss. 

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > Links

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >     -fullfeatured

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > ------------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >