Re: Re: Secondary Hypogonadism Diagnosis

[Guest guest]

Kivin,

one mls of 200mls/ml of test C is a dam big shot even in the AACE Guilelines it

starts on page 11 to do shots evey 7 to 10 days and this is old.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

Don't mix the gel with the shots with out talking to your Dr. my Dr. had me on

gels and my levels were low when I got stressed or sick so he would add a 200

mgs shot every other week. All this did was drive up my Estradiol levels so

high I got sick for the higher levels and lost my sex life.

It may well bee your meds lowered your Testosterone levels if they ever tried

SSRI's.

http://priory.com/psych/sexdys.htm

Do you do your own shots if so ask your Dr. to let you do 100 mgs /wk and if

your can add HCG to this to keep your testis and your LH cells working.

Here is a copy of a post to me by Dr. to help me get my Dr. to let me try

HCG. So show this to your Dr. and the link that supports what he says about

using HCG with TRT. So do a 250 IU's shot the 2 days each before you next Test C

shot every week.

================================================

He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing)

there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why

this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take

will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone.

This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic

consideration.

Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT

patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which

is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with

CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more

natural balance of our hormones.

Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an

increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life

issues.

Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including

those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated.

---------------------------------------------------

At his site read TRT: A recipe for success and his HCG update print this out and

give it to your Dr. Dr. is one of the best male hormone Dr.'s out there and

is paving the road on the cutting edge of on to test and treat low T in men.

www.allthingsmale.com

This link supports what he dose with HCG.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

Co-Moderator

Phil

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil,

I need to take a look at the bottle of testosterone and will do so when I

get home. I know I'm supposed to inject 1 mL every 14 days, but not sure of

the strength. Right now, I'm visiting my wife's family for the holiday so I

don't have access to it. I will post when I do. But yes, I do inject

myself.

My doctor's diagnosis based on lab work is hypogonadotropic hypogonadism.

She told me the issue is with either the pituitary gland, hypothalamus, or

both. Monday I should receive the results of the MRI to determine where we

go from here. It will be a tumor, or other brain abnormality, or it's going

to be some kind of endocrine disorder. An endocrine disorder is what the

doctor's nurse thinks, based on other symptoms. Beyond that, I have

possibilities but nothing in the way of certainty.

I was on SSRIs for years, but shifted to an MAOI Inhibitor about four years

ago.

I haven't yet noticed any change in my testicles, which I think is

consistent with the secondary/hypogonadotrophic diagnosis.

Thanks again,

--

http://www.myspace.com/cabaretic.

[Guest guest]

Well my thinking is this if your can get leveled good you might not need as much

meds for our problem. Most men going on TRT get better and don't need as much

or any AD drugs.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Camp <cabaretic@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: Secondary Hypogonadism Diagnosis

>

> Date: Saturday, November 27, 2010, 6:18 PM

> Hi Phil,

>

> I need to take a look at the bottle of testosterone and

> will do so when I

> get home.  I know I'm supposed to inject 1 mL every 14

> days, but not sure of

> the strength. Right now, I'm visiting my wife's family for

> the holiday so I

> don't have access to it.  I will post when I do. 

> But yes, I do inject

> myself.

>

> My doctor's diagnosis based on lab work is hypogonadotropic

> hypogonadism.

> She told me the issue is with either the pituitary gland,

> hypothalamus, or

> both.  Monday I should receive the results of the MRI

> to determine where we

> go from here.  It will be a tumor, or other brain

> abnormality, or it's going

> to be some kind of endocrine disorder.  An endocrine

> disorder is what the

> doctor's nurse thinks, based on other symptoms. 

> Beyond that, I have

> possibilities but nothing in the way of certainty.

>

> I was on SSRIs for years, but shifted to an MAOI Inhibitor

> about four years

> ago.

>

> I haven't yet noticed any change in my testicles, which I

> think is

> consistent with the secondary/hypogonadotrophic diagnosis.

>

> Thanks again,

>

>

>

> --

> http://www.myspace.com/cabaretic.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Barb and everyone else.

On the subject of hypothyroidism, pituitary tumors, and bipolar medications,

here is more from me. I just got back home, so I'll share some information

I didn't have access to until just now. I've also found lab levels given to

me by the doctor's nurse earlier last week.

1. Phil asked about my precise testosterone injection dose, and it is

indeed 1 mL every 14 days. The proportions on the bottle say 1,000 mg/5mL

(200mg/mL)

2. My low T levels were as follows: Serum: 259 L

Free: 8.0 L

These levels were taken roughly a month ago, before I started taking

testosterone in any form.

3. My prolactin level was low at 5.6 ng/mL, which led the nurse to question

whether the MRI would reveal a tumor.

4. Cortisol appeared to be on the low end at 5.1 ug/dL

5. Speaking specifically about thryoid levels, I have TSH. One is from a

month ago, and another is from ten days later.

The first reading on 25 October was 4.020 ulU/mL

The second reading on 4 November 2.320 uIU/mL

I will ask my doctor when she calls tomorrow about taking T3 and T4 levels.

The first reading was at the bottom of the range, but oddly the second was

at the middle. I have a family history of thyroid disorders, so this would

not surprise me terribly. There are other labs available, though I'm not

sure if they're particularly helpful.

[Guest guest]

OK first thing talk to your Dr. about doing shots every week try 100mgs and add

some HCG to the mix.

Your Cortisol is very low 5 wow how are you walking around.  Next to see what is

going on get a 4x's in a day Saliva test to see how your rhythm looks read the

following links. Dr.'s look for 's when they check Cortisol levels and if

your in rage but very low they think you fine but your not.

In this link you will find the labs you need for Thyroid add to the Total T3 and

T4.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork/

In this link it's about low Cortisol levels and there are 4x's /day Saliva labs

you can buy your self and do.http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

In this link it about treating this problem and if your as low as your blood

test showed you need to treat your Adreanls first before going on Thyroid meds.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/how-to-treat/

In this link it shows the stages of what your labs look like as this gets bad.

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%201%20.html

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Camp <cabaretic@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: Secondary Hypogonadism Diagnosis

>

> Date: Sunday, November 28, 2010, 4:51 PM

> Thanks, Barb and everyone else.

>

> On the subject of hypothyroidism, pituitary tumors, and

> bipolar medications,

> here is more from me.  I just got back home, so I'll

> share some information

> I didn't have access to until just now.  I've also

> found lab levels given to

> me by the doctor's nurse earlier last week.

>

> 1.  Phil asked about my precise testosterone injection

> dose, and it is

> indeed 1 mL every 14 days.  The proportions on the

> bottle say 1,000 mg/5mL

> (200mg/mL)

>

> 2.  My low T levels were as follows: 

> Serum:  259 L

>                

>                

>                

>       Free:    8.0 L

>

> These levels were taken roughly a month ago, before I

> started taking

> testosterone in any form.

>

> 3.  My prolactin level was low at 5.6 ng/mL, which led

> the nurse to question

> whether the MRI would reveal a tumor.

>

> 4.  Cortisol appeared to be on the low end at 5.1

> ug/dL

>

> 5.  Speaking specifically about thryoid levels, I have

> TSH.  One is from a

> month ago, and another is from ten days later.

>

> The first reading on 25 October was 4.020 ulU/mL

> The second reading on 4 November  2.320 uIU/mL

>

> I will ask my doctor when she calls tomorrow about taking

> T3 and T4 levels.

> The first reading was at the bottom of the range, but oddly

> the second was

> at the middle.  I have a family history of thyroid

> disorders, so this would

> not surprise me terribly.  There are other labs

> available, though I'm not

> sure if they're particularly helpful.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My doctor was supposed to call Monday but did not. I assumed she would call

yesterday, and did not. She is off on Wednesdays, so it seems as though the

soonest I'll hear something now is tomorrow. The situation here is mostly

bad timing, I think. The MRI was done right before Thanksgiving and the

week of Thanksgiving my GP was out.

I have always been told that serious brain abnormalities from an MRI are

immediately reported to the patient. Is this always the case in everyone's

experience? Now I'm wondering whether additional time was needed to read it

more in detail. I was told by the radiologist that the results would be

available eight days ago, but I suppose there might have been a delay

somewhere. Until a pituitary tumor is ruled out, nothing else can proceed.

In any case, the symptoms bothering me most are insulin resistance and

fatigue. I've even gone to a nutritionist who has critiqued my diet, and

have been seeking to balance out the carbohydrates and sugars I eat with

proteins, though that only works up to a point. It doesn't matter whether

I've exercised beforehand or not---when I consume particular foods, I get so

drowsy that I have to lie down in bed for an hour or so. The fatigue is

constant, though at times it is worse than at other times. I notice that

after I finish my workout, I find it a challenge to walk up a small

staircase and out the door of the gym.

Once I do have a chance to hear from the doctor, I will share what has been

determined.

[Guest guest]

,

Don't worry about your MRI even if you have a tumor it's rare to be cancer and

it's rare they do anything about but keep an eye on it. Don't exercise or over

do things with your levels this low. Wait until you get all your labs and if

you need TRT go on it make sure your Cortisol and Thyroid is checked and go slow

until you get leveled.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Camp <cabaretic@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: Secondary Hypogonadism Diagnosis

>

> Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:21 AM

> My doctor was supposed to call Monday

> but did not.  I assumed she would call

> yesterday, and did not.  She is off on Wednesdays, so

> it seems as though the

> soonest I'll hear something now is tomorrow.  The

> situation here is mostly

> bad timing, I think.  The MRI was done right before

> Thanksgiving and the

> week of Thanksgiving my GP was out.

>

> I have always been told that serious brain abnormalities

> from an MRI are

> immediately reported to the patient.  Is this always

> the case in everyone's

> experience?  Now I'm wondering whether additional time

> was needed to read it

> more in detail.  I was told by the radiologist that

> the results would be

> available eight days ago, but I suppose there might have

> been a delay

> somewhere.  Until a pituitary tumor is ruled out,

> nothing else can proceed.

>

> In any case, the symptoms bothering me most are insulin

> resistance and

> fatigue.  I've even gone to a nutritionist who has

> critiqued my diet, and

> have been seeking to balance out the carbohydrates and

> sugars I eat with

> proteins, though that only works up to a point.  It

> doesn't matter whether

> I've exercised beforehand or not---when I consume

> particular foods, I get so

> drowsy that I have to lie down in bed for an hour or

> so.  The fatigue is

> constant, though at times it is worse than at other

> times.  I notice that

> after I finish my workout, I find it a challenge to walk up

> a small

> staircase and out the door of the gym.

>

> Once I do have a chance to hear from the doctor, I will

> share what has been

> determined.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well I am sorry you have a tumor but now you know and you will know from what I

am telling you that you need to keep track of all your hormones. It's no worse

then just low T one good thing is you don't have to worry about testis cancer

your testis work fine. So when you treat this take to your Dr. about HCG only

doing 100 IU's every day this acts like the message sent from your Pituitary to

your testis and will keep your testis making your Testosterone. In the next yr.

a new pill is coming out the will do the same thing so now more shots.

Go to this link and read the site it's about being Hypopituitary and the things

that need or can go low.

Other wise I feel your going to be fine.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewforum.php?f=12 & sid=8df50b208e26a3e110a4d8e\

8c13e8b54

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: cabaretic <cabaretic@...>

> Subject: Re: Secondary Hypogonadism Diagnosis

>

> Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 5:30 PM

>

>

> I just heard back from the GP.  Due to red tape

> stupidity, my MRI records were not transferred until

> yesterday.  It's a long, frustrating story. 

> Sometimes HIPPA laws end up protecting the patient from

> knowing the results of a test!

>

> In any case, the MRI apparently looks fine except for one

> area.  I was told that I could have a very small tumor

> (less than 2 cm in diameter), but additional tests with an

> endocrinologist are necessary to know for sure.  So,

> I'm getting a referral at some point next week. 

>

> I'm also supposed to meet with the GP on the 13th to

> determine where the course of treatment goes from

> here.  Hopefully I won't have to wait too long to visit

> a specialist and have more answers.  Beyond that,

> however, I suppose I'm in wait-and-see mode. 

>

>    

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Phil.

I agree with you.

Honestly, I never believed that this was going to be life-threatening, even

from the beginning. At this point, I may be looking at a lengthy period of

testing to determine precisely what's going on with me. And that's more

annoying than anything else.

There's a lot left to be discovered, but now it's just a matter of being

patient.

.

[Guest guest]

Yes do a lot of testing Dr.'s did not know about this 30 yrs ago when they seen

I had low T and was not suffering from Major Depression. They just put me on T

meds telling me I am Primary. It took me 23 yrs to figure out I am Secondary

now I treat all my low and low normal hormones and feel much better.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Camp <cabaretic@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: Secondary Hypogonadism Diagnosis

>

> Date: Saturday, December 4, 2010, 2:27 PM

> Thanks, Phil.

>

> I agree with you.

>

> Honestly, I never believed that this was going to be

> life-threatening, even

> from the beginning.  At this point, I may be looking

> at a lengthy period of

> testing to determine precisely what's going on with

> me.  And that's more

> annoying than anything else.

>

> There's a lot left to be discovered, but now it's just a

> matter of being

> patient.

>

> .

>

>

>