Re: TRT was feeling great now back to crap......please help.

[Guest guest]

Hi banditsdad and Welcome,

Here is what I see one is your Estradiol can still be to high. Your levels in

my units here in the USA are 47 pg/ml most men do well at about 20 this would be

about 73 in your units. But if your SHBG is low like mine 18 you need it lower

at about 15 in my units 55 in yours. Now for how we feel as Estradiol comes

down first thing I got back was night time and morning wood, These involuntary

nocturnal erections that appear during REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep. This is

a good gage to how to keep your Estradiol in the sweet spot. Now going on

Arimidex we get this wood back I tell men to keep taking the Arimidex but is

there wood stops this means they are going down to low and this is just as bad

as being to high. So all one needs to do is stop taking the Arimidex until the

wood comes back if you catch this fast wood comes back fast if you to low for a

long time it can take a few weeks.

When your wood comes back go back on the Arimidex that day don't wait Estradiol

can rebound very fast and you end up to high again. In your case you would do

..25 mgs every 3 days if you go to low again try every 4 days. I will put a copy

of a file I did on this at the end of this post.

Next thing I need to know are you doing your labs the day of your next shot but

before it it's best to do them this way. What makes us feel bad is going down

to low by the next shot. It's called a Roller Coaster Ride. If you do your

labs 3 to 4 days after your weekly shot your going to get the spike level it

goes the highest in this time the starts falling. If your doing shots 2 x's a

week do the shot after your labs in the morning.

I don't feel men need to do shots of T everyday or every other day most will get

a stake up on the Half Life of the T and your going to be up and down from labs

to labs not steady. At least this is what it did to me and others I have talked

to. I do my shots every 3 days and I do HCG 250 IU's the day before my T shot.

If you can get on HCG it helps keep your Testis working the best they can. And

it keeps all the LH cells in your body and brain working. Going on TRT shuts

down LH the message sent to your testis to make T.

Here is a copy of a post to me from Dr. at allthingsmale.com to help me get

my Dr. to let me try HCG.

================================

Dr. ’s post to me to help get my Dr. to let me try HCG.

He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing)

there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why

this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take

will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone.

This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic

consideration.

Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT

patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which

is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with

CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more

natural balance of our hormones.

Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an

increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life

issues.

Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including

those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated.

--------------------------------------------------------

And this link supports what he says about using HCG.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

I tell men on TRT to check there Cortisol levels for Adrenal Fatigue and they

Thyroid here is a link to labs I tell men to get add to this Total T3 and T4 for

Thyroid.

I know there are a lot of tests in this link but they need to be done.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=7059

Read this link about Adrenals and Thyroid and yes try DHEA doing 25 mgs 2x's a

day.

http://livingnetwork.co.za/hormones/adrenal-fatigue/

Here is how to not go down to low on Estradiol taking Arimidex.

================================

How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low.

What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your

to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to

make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on

your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I

went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or

how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low

until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your

night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you

get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you

can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to

cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge

razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your

levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day

after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said

>90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time

and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the

day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could

not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the

Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex

my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we

went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was

on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low

you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels

back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after

playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3

days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down

so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with

lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your

lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down

from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need

..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this

to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading

back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets

me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some good links to read.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450553

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: banditsdad2005 <mazz1@...>

> Subject: TRT was feeling great now back to crap......please

help.

>

> Date: Monday, May 31, 2010, 6:47 PM

> I havenow been of TRT for

> approximately 8 months….and was feeling

> much much better! My labs have all been done monthly and

> are solid.

> That said, there are acouple areas of concern.  My

> hope in posting today

> is that you allcan help get me on the right track with my

> therapy.

> Regrettably my GP'slack of knowledge on the subject has

> left me in a

> bit of a predicament.

>

>

>

> A little about me andmy TRT history…… sorry all Labs

> are in metric

> (I'm Canadian)

>

>

>

>

> I am a 44 year old male who ispresently taking Testosterone

> through my

> GP.  I have been on the " therapy " (can't really call it

> therapy as it

> very basic in nature -no HCG or anti aromatase being taken

> until last

> month) for approximately 8 months.  Iam very good

> health otherwise but

> was suffering from text book low

> testosteronesymptoms.  My physical and

> woodwork done by my GP all came inA-OK.  I am 5'11 "

> 185 lbs and in good

> shape.

>

> I started with  the patch ( Androderm 5mg/24 hrs) but

> that didn'twork

> because of my active lifestyle, switched to the cream (50

> mg/0.5ml) but

> thatdid nothing to raise my levels and I didn't like the

> potential for

> transfer tomy child or spouse.  I finally started

> Testosterone

> injections(Depo Testosterone 150mg/week) about 4 months ago

> and was

> feeling muchbetter...........more energy, better sleep,

> improved libido,

> less agitated,overall sense of well being has improved

> considerably.

> Lately though the improvements have disappeared and I'm

> back to being

> less than energetic, libido is not as high and sense of

> well being is

> down

>

> I have had monthly follow up blood work done.  My my

> totaltestosterone

> came in initially (first tests) at 16.  Subsequent

> testcame in at 31 and

> finally 40 (my most resent test).  My Doc says it's

> toohigh now and has

> lowered my dose to 125mg/wk with blood work again in1

> month.  From my

> research, my present levels are actually optimal. I have

> asked to have

> my E2 levels and free testosterone checked as perhaps

> myestrogen levels

> may be out of whack and although GP's don't feel free

> testlevels are

> important, my research suggests otherwise.

>

> My recentlabs came back and my GP is still concerned about

> my

> Testosteronelevels as well as my Estradiol levels. 

> From my research and

> in speakingwith several authorities in the US about TRT, my

> Testosterone

> levels are justfine, in fact they are close to

> optimal.  I was pleased

> to see my free testosterone results as I was concerned that

> with my

> higher estrogenlevels, the testosterone I was taking wasn't

> being

> utilized.  I also  switched from a shot once a

> week to doing every other

> day with ½ " 29 gauge insulin needle IM in the quad. 

> So much easier

> than the 1 ½ deepIM in the glutes!

>

>

>

>

> Lab results

>

> All within rangeexcept for: (normal ranges in brackets)

>

> Estradiol was withinrange but I think high

> 172   (<220 pmol/L)

>

> Hemoglobin 179  (133-165 g/L)

>

> Hematocrit .51  (.38-.50)

>

> RBC 5.86  (4.20-5.40 tera/L)

>

> Testosterone Total34.2   (10-30 nmol/L)

>

> Testosterone Free1025   (200-800 pmol/L)

>

> BioavailableTestosterone 25.1   (5-20

> nmol/L)

>

>

>

>

> I had 2concerns though, even though my estradiol levels are

> within

> range, optimalaccording to studies and Dr's in the US are

> about half

> of what I presently sitat or 80.74 pmol/L  Every Dr

> and patient I have

> corresponded withand all the reports/papers/books I have

> read on TRT

> Therapy indicate use of anaromatase inhibitor in

> conjunction with

> Testosterone.  Anastrozole is whatis generally

> prescribed.  I've since

> started Arimidex 1mg/wk .25mg on Mon, Wed, Fri and Sun.

> hoping that

> lowering my E levels would make me feel better.........no

> such luck

> Tests came back, E levels down to close to optimal range

> but I still

> feel lousy.  I am also down to 125mg/wk of test

> cypionate.

>

>

>

>

>

> I want to add HCG and my Doc is receptive....will the

> addition of HCG

> help me?

>

> Should I consider DHEA as well?

>

>

> *DHEA was 6.0 umol/L.... on the low side (5.2 - 14.2)

> normal range

>

>

>

>

>

> HELP!  I went from feeling awesome to crap.....what up

> with that?

>

>

>    <http://www.allthingsmale.com/index.htm>

>

>

>

>   PS most I have spoken with are doing their TRT

> therapy this way:

>

>   250 iu HGCevery other day

>

> Testosterone IM or SCevery other day

>

> Anastrozole 1mg/wkevery other day (work up to 1.5mg/wk)

>

> DHEA is alsoprescribed

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think that last post was a little too lengthy. Toward the end of my post I

stated that my most recent labs returned E levels close to optimal so obviously

the Arimidex is working. (I take .25mg 4x/wk)

Really still not feeling great and I thought the lower E would help. I do feel

better than before I started TRT but not nearly as good as I did for the first

3-4 months.

Maybe the HCG will help....here's hoping!

To answer your quest regarding labs, I get them done on an OFF day between

shots. I do my shots every other day.

Thanks for the insights.

>

> > From: banditsdad2005 <mazz1@...>

> > Subject: TRT was feeling great now back to crap......please

help.

> >

> > Date: Monday, May 31, 2010, 6:47 PM

> > I havenow been of TRT for

> > approximately 8 months….and was feeling

> > much much better! My labs have all been done monthly and

> > are solid.

> > That said, there are acouple areas of concern.  My

> > hope in posting today

> > is that you allcan help get me on the right track with my

> > therapy.

> > Regrettably my GP'slack of knowledge on the subject has

> > left me in a

> > bit of a predicament.

> >

> >

> >

> > A little about me andmy TRT history…… sorry all Labs

> > are in metric

> > (I'm Canadian)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I am a 44 year old male who ispresently taking Testosterone

> > through my

> > GP.  I have been on the " therapy " (can't really call it

> > therapy as it

> > very basic in nature -no HCG or anti aromatase being taken

> > until last

> > month) for approximately 8 months.  Iam very good

> > health otherwise but

> > was suffering from text book low

> > testosteronesymptoms.  My physical and

> > woodwork done by my GP all came inA-OK.  I am 5'11 "

> > 185 lbs and in good

> > shape.

> >

> > I started with  the patch ( Androderm 5mg/24 hrs) but

> > that didn'twork

> > because of my active lifestyle, switched to the cream (50

> > mg/0.5ml) but

> > thatdid nothing to raise my levels and I didn't like the

> > potential for

> > transfer tomy child or spouse.  I finally started

> > Testosterone

> > injections(Depo Testosterone 150mg/week) about 4 months ago

> > and was

> > feeling muchbetter...........more energy, better sleep,

> > improved libido,

> > less agitated,overall sense of well being has improved

> > considerably.

> > Lately though the improvements have disappeared and I'm

> > back to being

> > less than energetic, libido is not as high and sense of

> > well being is

> > down

> >

> > I have had monthly follow up blood work done.  My my

> > totaltestosterone

> > came in initially (first tests) at 16.  Subsequent

> > testcame in at 31 and

> > finally 40 (my most resent test).  My Doc says it's

> > toohigh now and has

> > lowered my dose to 125mg/wk with blood work again in1

> > month.  From my

> > research, my present levels are actually optimal. I have

> > asked to have

> > my E2 levels and free testosterone checked as perhaps

> > myestrogen levels

> > may be out of whack and although GP's don't feel free

> > testlevels are

> > important, my research suggests otherwise.

> >

> > My recentlabs came back and my GP is still concerned about

> > my

> > Testosteronelevels as well as my Estradiol levels. 

> > From my research and

> > in speakingwith several authorities in the US about TRT, my

> > Testosterone

> > levels are justfine, in fact they are close to

> > optimal.  I was pleased

> > to see my free testosterone results as I was concerned that

> > with my

> > higher estrogenlevels, the testosterone I was taking wasn't

> > being

> > utilized.  I also  switched from a shot once a

> > week to doing every other

> > day with ½ " 29 gauge insulin needle IM in the quad. 

> > So much easier

> > than the 1 ½ deepIM in the glutes!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Lab results

> >

> > All within rangeexcept for: (normal ranges in brackets)

> >

> > Estradiol was withinrange but I think high

> > 172   (<220 pmol/L)

> >

> > Hemoglobin 179  (133-165 g/L)

> >

> > Hematocrit .51  (.38-.50)

> >

> > RBC 5.86  (4.20-5.40 tera/L)

> >

> > Testosterone Total34.2   (10-30 nmol/L)

> >

> > Testosterone Free1025   (200-800 pmol/L)

> >

> > BioavailableTestosterone 25.1   (5-20

> > nmol/L)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I had 2concerns though, even though my estradiol levels are

> > within

> > range, optimalaccording to studies and Dr's in the US are

> > about half

> > of what I presently sitat or 80.74 pmol/L  Every Dr

> > and patient I have

> > corresponded withand all the reports/papers/books I have

> > read on TRT

> > Therapy indicate use of anaromatase inhibitor in

> > conjunction with

> > Testosterone.  Anastrozole is whatis generally

> > prescribed.  I've since

> > started Arimidex 1mg/wk .25mg on Mon, Wed, Fri and Sun.

> > hoping that

> > lowering my E levels would make me feel better.........no

> > such luck

> > Tests came back, E levels down to close to optimal range

> > but I still

> > feel lousy.  I am also down to 125mg/wk of test

> > cypionate.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I want to add HCG and my Doc is receptive....will the

> > addition of HCG

> > help me?

> >

> > Should I consider DHEA as well?

> >

> >

> > *DHEA was 6.0 umol/L.... on the low side (5.2 - 14.2)

> > normal range

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > HELP!  I went from feeling awesome to crap.....what up

> > with that?

> >

> >

> >    <http://www.allthingsmale.com/index.htm>

> >

> >

> >

> >   PS most I have spoken with are doing their TRT

> > therapy this way:

> >

> >   250 iu HGCevery other day

> >

> > Testosterone IM or SCevery other day

> >

> > Anastrozole 1mg/wkevery other day (work up to 1.5mg/wk)

> >

> > DHEA is alsoprescribed

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

It's OK as long as you do this this way every test. I find doing labs the

morning of the next shot works good to show you how low your going. I do my

shots every 3 days and 250 IU's of HCG the day before my next shot.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: banditsdad2005 <mazz1@...>

> Subject: Re: TRT was feeling great now back to crap......please

help.

>

> Date: Tuesday, June 1, 2010, 8:56 PM

> I think that last post was a little

> too lengthy.  Toward the end of my post I stated that

> my most recent labs returned E levels close to optimal so

> obviously the Arimidex is working. (I take .25mg 4x/wk)

>

> Really still not feeling great and I thought the lower E

> would help.  I do feel better than before I started TRT

> but not nearly as good as I did for the first 3-4 months.

>

> Maybe the HCG will help....here's hoping!

>

> To answer your quest regarding labs, I get them done on an

> OFF day between shots.  I do my shots every other day.

>

> Thanks for the insights.

>

>

> >

> > > From: banditsdad2005 <mazz1@...>

> > > Subject: TRT was feeling great now

> back to crap......please help.

> > >

> > > Date: Monday, May 31, 2010, 6:47 PM

> > > I havenow been of TRT for

> > > approximately 8 months….and was feeling

> > > much much better! My labs have all been done

> monthly and

> > > are solid.

> > > That said, there are acouple areas of

> concern.  My

> > > hope in posting today

> > > is that you allcan help get me on the right track

> with my

> > > therapy.

> > > Regrettably my GP'slack of knowledge on the

> subject has

> > > left me in a

> > > bit of a predicament.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > A little about me andmy TRT history……

> sorry all Labs

> > > are in metric

> > > (I'm Canadian)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I am a 44 year old male who ispresently taking

> Testosterone

> > > through my

> > > GP.  I have been on the " therapy " (can't really

> call it

> > > therapy as it

> > > very basic in nature -no HCG or anti aromatase

> being taken

> > > until last

> > > month) for approximately 8 months.  Iam very

> good

> > > health otherwise but

> > > was suffering from text book low

> > > testosteronesymptoms.  My physical and

> > > woodwork done by my GP all came inA-OK.  I am

> 5'11 "

> > > 185 lbs and in good

> > > shape.

> > >

> > > I started with  the patch ( Androderm 5mg/24

> hrs) but

> > > that didn'twork

> > > because of my active lifestyle, switched to the

> cream (50

> > > mg/0.5ml) but

> > > thatdid nothing to raise my levels and I didn't

> like the

> > > potential for

> > > transfer tomy child or spouse.  I finally

> started

> > > Testosterone

> > > injections(Depo Testosterone 150mg/week) about 4

> months ago

> > > and was

> > > feeling muchbetter...........more energy, better

> sleep,

> > > improved libido,

> > > less agitated,overall sense of well being has

> improved

> > > considerably.

> > > Lately though the improvements have disappeared

> and I'm

> > > back to being

> > > less than energetic, libido is not as high and

> sense of

> > > well being is

> > > down

> > >

> > > I have had monthly follow up blood work done. 

> My my

> > > totaltestosterone

> > > came in initially (first tests) at 16. 

> Subsequent

> > > testcame in at 31 and

> > > finally 40 (my most resent test).  My Doc says

> it's

> > > toohigh now and has

> > > lowered my dose to 125mg/wk with blood work again

> in1

> > > month.  From my

> > > research, my present levels are actually optimal.

> I have

> > > asked to have

> > > my E2 levels and free testosterone checked as

> perhaps

> > > myestrogen levels

> > > may be out of whack and although GP's don't feel

> free

> > > testlevels are

> > > important, my research suggests otherwise.

> > >

> > > My recentlabs came back and my GP is still

> concerned about

> > > my

> > > Testosteronelevels as well as my Estradiol

> levels. 

> > > From my research and

> > > in speakingwith several authorities in the US

> about TRT, my

> > > Testosterone

> > > levels are justfine, in fact they are close to

> > > optimal.  I was pleased

> > > to see my free testosterone results as I was

> concerned that

> > > with my

> > > higher estrogenlevels, the testosterone I was

> taking wasn't

> > > being

> > > utilized.  I also  switched from a shot

> once a

> > > week to doing every other

> > > day with ½ " 29 gauge insulin needle IM in the

> quad. 

> > > So much easier

> > > than the 1 ½ deepIM in the glutes!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Lab results

> > >

> > > All within rangeexcept for: (normal ranges in

> brackets)

> > >

> > > Estradiol was withinrange but I think high

> > > 172   (<220 pmol/L)

> > >

> > > Hemoglobin 179  (133-165 g/L)

> > >

> > > Hematocrit .51  (.38-.50)

> > >

> > > RBC 5.86  (4.20-5.40 tera/L)

> > >

> > > Testosterone Total34.2   (10-30 nmol/L)

> > >

> > > Testosterone Free1025   (200-800

> pmol/L)

> > >

> > > BioavailableTestosterone 25.1   (5-20

> > > nmol/L)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I had 2concerns though, even though my estradiol

> levels are

> > > within

> > > range, optimalaccording to studies and Dr's in

> the US are

> > > about half

> > > of what I presently sitat or 80.74 pmol/L 

> Every Dr

> > > and patient I have

> > > corresponded withand all the reports/papers/books

> I have

> > > read on TRT

> > > Therapy indicate use of anaromatase inhibitor in

> > > conjunction with

> > > Testosterone.  Anastrozole is whatis

> generally

> > > prescribed.  I've since

> > > started Arimidex 1mg/wk .25mg on Mon, Wed, Fri

> and Sun.

> > > hoping that

> > > lowering my E levels would make me feel

> better.........no

> > > such luck

> > > Tests came back, E levels down to close to

> optimal range

> > > but I still

> > > feel lousy.  I am also down to 125mg/wk of

> test

> > > cypionate.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I want to add HCG and my Doc is receptive....will

> the

> > > addition of HCG

> > > help me?

> > >

> > > Should I consider DHEA as well?

> > >

> > >

> > > *DHEA was 6.0 umol/L.... on the low side (5.2 -

> 14.2)

> > > normal range

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > HELP!  I went from feeling awesome to

> crap.....what up

> > > with that?

> > >

> > >

> > >    <http://www.allthingsmale.com/index.htm>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >   PS most I have spoken with are doing their

> TRT

> > > therapy this way:

> > >

> > >   250 iu HGCevery other day

> > >

> > > Testosterone IM or SCevery other day

> > >

> > > Anastrozole 1mg/wkevery other day (work up to

> 1.5mg/wk)

> > >

> > > DHEA is alsoprescribed

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

So how many shots is that per week, total (TRT and HCG)? Four?

>

> It's OK as long as you do this this way every test. I find doing labs the

morning of the next shot works good to show you how low your going. I do my

shots every 3 days and 250 IU's of HCG the day before my next shot.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

[Guest guest]

, JMHO, but I really don't think you need shots. Your total levels are

good, was it your frees that were low? It looked like you had more of a

conversion problem, and hopefully Dr. can look into that. We both know

what a pain HC was, trying to dose that, and I would be extremely reluctant to

put you on TRT, given my hunch that it's not the problem.

It may even be that some of your other meds are interfering. It's not

well-known, but in some, saw palmetto increases estrogen. I found stinging

nettle root can cause gynecomastia, as well as xanax. So please be patient and

get a thorough evaluation. You and DH have both been through enough.

Barb

> >

> > It's OK as long as you do this this way every test. I find doing labs the

morning of the next shot works good to show you how low your going. I do my

shots every 3 days and 250 IU's of HCG the day before my next shot.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

>

[Guest guest]

I hope that you're right Barb because I am not excited about starting on TRT,

especially if it means that I'm on it for life. My total T has been high and out

of range the last two times that I've had it checked but free T was low in

range. SHBG was high and out of range too. Strangely, though, my E2 is very low

at 7. Some people have suggested that all of the T3 that I'm on (15mcg BID,

recently reduced from 20mcg BID) is causing the SHBG to be high which,

presumably, is binding up all of that T. Hopefully Dr. J will be able to figure

me out.

By the way, after I switched back to synthetic T4 and weaned off of the HC I

also weaned off of the benzos (that was a really fun 9 months of hell that cost

me my marriage too). I'm still taking a very small dose of Seroquel to help me

sleep and I'm pretty sure that I can wean off of it, eventually, and I want to

because no one really knows what these psych drugs do to us other than that this

one can affect blood sugar to the high side. I did just start back on saw

palmetto to alleviate some BPH like symptoms that have recurred for the second

time this year. The uro tried to give me large doses of NSAIDs, alpha blockers

and other stuff but saw palmetto alleviated the SX last time so I'm taking it

again. Apparently my E is low so I shou ld be OK taking it for a while? What is

gyno anyway?

Thanks Barb.

> > >

> > > It's OK as long as you do this this way every test. I find doing labs the

morning of the next shot works good to show you how low your going. I do my

shots every 3 days and 250 IU's of HCG the day before my next shot.

> > > Co-Moderator

> > > Phil

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I read about too high T3 correlating with high testosterone AND estrogen.

Here's some fun reading for you

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/38/2/269

Status of Estrogen-Androgen Balance in Hyperthyroid Men with Graves' Disease

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/12/6472

Multicenter Study on the Prevalence of Sexual Symptoms in Male Hypo- and

Hyperthyroid Patients

Sorry to hear about your marriage. Gynecomastia is the medical term for male

breasts. That's what DH has when his estrogen goes too high

I agree with Bill, that " Not all men need to be in the upper 1/3 of the range, "

and maybe that is part of what's causing everyone's estrogen to go too high.

That plus being hypothyroid. Both hormones need to be adjusted, and it's hell

trying to find that sweet spot. If one can get their thyroid levels optimized,

then they could lower their dose of testosterone, which would cause less

estrogen to be made. I find the testosterone conversion to estradiol analogous

to too much T4 turning to rT3.

DH is now on 30 mg tc every 5 days, and I'm thinking of lowering it to 20 mg.

(His Free T was over range on 40 mg) That goes against everything I've read,

except from a few posters who also lowered and felt better, not worse, which is

not what we'd been led to believe.

Barb

> >

> > , JMHO, but I really don't think you need shots. Your total levels are

good, was it your frees that were low? It looked like you had more of a

conversion problem, and hopefully Dr. can look into that. We both know

what a pain HC was, trying to dose that, and I would be extremely reluctant to

put you on TRT, given my hunch that it's not the problem.

> >

> > It may even be that some of your other meds are interfering. It's not

well-known, but in some, saw palmetto increases estrogen. I found stinging

nettle root can cause gynecomastia, as well as xanax. So please be patient and

get a thorough evaluation. You and DH have both been through enough.

[Guest guest]

I like the idea of taking smaller doses more often, and he has room to do that,

since he's doing every 5 days now.

I wonder if doing labs at your lowest, before the next shot, is the best

practice though. With shots, you can expect T levels to plot as a sine wave,

going up and down, and then back up again with the next shot. If you measure

the valley, and expect THAT to be in the top 1/3, then wouldn't your peak be

over range? But you wouldn't know how much over range, and that alone, could be

the cause of the estrogen problem. If you measure the peak, and THAT's in the

top 1/3, then you have room for it to drop as it goes into the valley. And of

course, if you dose less more frequently, you can flatten the sine wave, which

would be a good thing.

JMHO,

Barb

>

> Barb a lot of men that have all there hormones in balance one being Growth

Hormones can take less Testosterone and some end up not having Estradiol

problems I am hoping this will be the case for me.

[Guest guest]

No, I don't take anything to lower E or T, just my thyroid meds.

>

> I see this all the time T3 only will in time mess up your SHBG levels making

them very high. I don't understand the low Estradiol do you take anything to

keep it down if you do stop taking it.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

[Guest guest]

Phil, I did that test, at your suggestion, and it came back 7 (LabCorp's

Estradiol Sensitive). We've had this same conversation a few times .

>

> Then I would redo them labs there is a Ultra test by Quest labs that

tells men they are very low and it's the labs test they are having big problems

with this Ultra Sensitive Estradiol test that has a range of <29 if this was you

Estradiol test you did don't do this test get the Quest labs Estradiol test

#4021.

> Co-Moderator

> Phil

>

[Guest guest]

It's cool Phil. I know that you're corresponding with hundreds of us.

DHEA makes me insanely irritable, almost raging at 25mgs, but even noticeably

bad at 10mg. I'm going to see Dr. in two weeks so I'm not going to change

anything now.

My latest symptom is that I'm sweating quite a bit within 30 minutes of eating

although it doesn't happen after every meal. This just started happenening

lately after I used a liver cleansing blend of milk thistle, dandelion root,

tumeric, and artichoke. I don't know if one has anything to do with the other,

but the timing is right. I've been checking my blood sugar when I feel sweaty

and it has mostly been at high at those times, anywhere from 125 - 146. I

checked it just now because I was feeling a little sweaty 30 mins or so after

eating some pistachios and it was onyl 110. I feel like I'm not regulating blood

sugar very well.

> > >

> > > Then I would redo them labs there is a Ultra

> > test by Quest labs that tells men they are very low and it's

> > the labs test they are having big problems with this Ultra

> > Sensitive Estradiol test that has a range of <29 if this

> > was you Estradiol test you did don't do this test get the

> > Quest labs Estradiol test #4021.

> > > Co-Moderator

> > > Phil

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >