Re: New here--and I've got some questions...

February 8, 2010

Hi Rick and Welcome,

Keep your Dr. and don't see Endo's or Uro's they are not good Dr.'s for low T.

My GOD man did you know doing 5 tubs of Testim is over 2x's the dose recommended

but the people that make it. I did 3 tubes and it drove up my Estradiol levels

so high I was having Panic Attacks in the middle of the night and lost my sex

life.

I don't go by any ratio of T to E2 this don't work best thing you can do is to

make sure you have the right kind of DIM that is Indloplex/DIM here is a link to

what I know that works there is a lot of junk out there for sale.

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

If the DIM you have is not Indolplex/DIM and not a tablet it's going to get

killed in your stomach. What you can do is pore the DIM from a cap into a spoon

and add some olive oil to it then take it by mouth. This will keep some of it

from getting killed.

Men your age will have higher Estradiol levels and if you don't keep them down

it takes away from any good the gels or testosterone will do for you.

I gage my Estradiol levels and you need to stop using the word Estrogen

Estradiol E2 is the bad guy for men. When men use the word Estrogen and ask to

have it tested they get the wrong labs done.

The way I gage my levels is by my night time and morning wood as long as I have

them I know I am not to high or driving it to low on DIM or Arimidex.

So take the DIM your get Indolplex/DIM and when you get some strong night time

and morning wood you know your levels are great I call this the sweet spot.

On DIM or Arimidex if your wood stops your going down to low and taking Viagra

will not get it up. So just stop taking what your doing and when your wood

comes back that day go back on it but cut the dose in half.

Taking Zinc helps keep Estradiol levels down a little but it will lower your

Copper levels so get some 2 mgs caps of Copper and take it to keep your levels

up. But don't take Zinc and Copper at the same time.

Cialis dose not stop working it's your Estradiol levels going to high or falling

to low.

If your levels come back to the sweet spot and you get some strong night time

and morning wood but still have a time keeping it up for sex go back on the

Cialis take 20 mgs every 3 days this will get you past the worry about it

staying up. We men have Ed and go to have sex this is on there mind will it

stay up and this kills it. In time you will not need it anymore.

What dose of androgel are you on don't do more then 10 grams a day if you do

more your Estradiol will get so bad you can't keep it down.

When you do your labs next time get up do a shower then to do your labs and put

the gel on after your labs. If you can't do this put the gel on in the morning

but keep it away from the spot they take blood from and do your labs after 6

hrs. This way the gel will not spike up your labs.

You need to get your Total T and Free T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your

labs range then go by how you feel. Some men don't get good levels on gels it

dose not get through there skin. If this happens to your switch to shots start

with 100 mgs every week have your Dr. show you how to do them your self.

I use a 27g 1ml x 1/2 " lg. needle and do my shots into my thigh been doing this

over 4 yrs and I have dam good lab levels.

Show your Dr. this study about high levels of Estradiol in older men.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

and this on how arimidex brings up T levels.

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

In some areas more men use arimidex then women do.

Here is a dam good link full of info about low t.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450553

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Rick * <renaissancetraders@...>

> Subject: New here--and I've got some questions...

>

> Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 11:33 AM

> I am 48, and I have been battling

> ED/hypogonadism for about 5-6 years. Originally, my T levels

> were slightly above the bottom of the range (300 on a scale

> of 250-1100) so my doctor prescribed Cialis. Over time, this

> became less effective, my T level dropped to around 270, so

> he prescribed testim (5 tubes daily). That helped for a few

> months, then became less effective also. I pretty much quit

> taking anything for a couple of years.

>

> Went back to the doc a couple of months ago and (after

> reading some of the posts on here) had him check estrogen as

> well as Testosterone...my T level was 250--but my estrogen

> was 49! He has me on Androgel now--no effect that I can see.

> I have started taking DIM and zinc--he ruled out

> prescription aromatase inhibitors because he didn't think

> the ratio was important. This was my PCP...

>

> So my questions are--should I get another doctor? An

> endocrinologist? Should I be taking more things than DIM and

> zinc? What would be a better ratio? 10-1? 15-1?

>

> ------------------------------------

>

February 8, 2010

Sorry--I mis-stated my testim dosage--it was one 5-gram tube daily.

I bought some indolplex DIM today from a vitamin store, so I'll use that one

from now on....

My pcp wouldn't do an estradiol test. He only did total estrogen. He said he was

sure my estradiol would be high because I'm overweight.

He also didn't do an LH or FSH. He did do an SHBG, said it was normal--I have

requested copies of my bloodwork so I can get actual numbers. He told me

everything was normal except free T and total T. I had a follow up visit last

week and asked him the actual number of estrogen--normal was <50...and mine was

49! I just figured that the combination of high estrogen and low testosterone

pinpointed my medical problems--and a good place to start would be to drop the

estrogen level. So I asked him about an aromatase inhibitor and he said flat out

NO. He wants to up my androgel dosage--but that will feed estrogen, right? What

difference does it make if my T is 600, if my estrogen (estradiol) goes to 100?

Still no wood, still feel like crap all the time, still no zest or energy.....

February 8, 2010

No if he wants to up your dose of gels go for it take the indolplex/DIM this

will being down your Estradiol and levels make you feel better. And up your Free

T levels it's a small price to pay to have higher levels of T and to take some

thing to keep Estradiol levels down. You need your Total and Free T levels up

into the upper 1/3 of your labs range and you need to keep your Estradiol levels

down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get your night time and morning wood back you

will know your Estradiol levels are good.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Rick * <renaissancetraders@...>

> Subject: Re: New here--and I've got some questions...

>

> Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 5:34 PM

> Sorry--I mis-stated my testim

> dosage--it was one 5-gram tube daily.

>

> I bought some indolplex DIM today from a vitamin store, so

> I'll use that one from now on....

>

> My pcp wouldn't do an estradiol test. He only did total

> estrogen. He said he was sure my estradiol would be high

> because I'm overweight.

>

> He also didn't do an LH or FSH. He did do an SHBG, said it

> was normal--I have requested copies of my bloodwork so I can

> get actual numbers. He told me everything was normal except

> free T and total T. I had a follow up visit last week and

> asked him the actual number of estrogen--normal was

> <50...and mine was 49! I just figured that the

> combination of high estrogen and low testosterone pinpointed

> my medical problems--and a good place to start would be to

> drop the estrogen level. So I asked him about an aromatase

> inhibitor and he said flat out NO. He wants to up my

> androgel dosage--but that will feed estrogen, right? What

> difference does it make if my T is 600, if my estrogen

> (estradiol) goes to 100? Still no wood, still feel like crap

> all the time, still no zest or energy.....

>

> ------------------------------------

>

February 9, 2010

Hi,

there are a lot of folks here that don't like endocrinologists.... and it's true

they mainly do diabetes... it's the base of their business.

but if your GP will run your labs and write your test prescription (I get mine

through my GP twice a year and supplementals through the local med school dept

of endocrinology... 1 day a week all you have to do is show up, check off the

tests you want run, pay your SMALL fee, and they'll send you your results) you

may choose to work it out yourself.

the ancillaries (HCG, arimidex, etc) are easy enough to get... and downright

cheap from www.alldaychemist.com (cheaper than through my local pharmacy with

insurance for me since they price scripts " per month " and 4 1mg arimidex is a

month!)

you might want to print out some of the stuff from the files section for your GP

(and yourself, there's LOTS of good stuff there).

see if your doc will go for self injected test, 1/2cc (100mg) once a week

instead of the gel.

get a round of tests after a month/6weeks and adjust dose and/or add arimidex...

after you get that worked out a bit (arimidex dosage varies a good bit... from

1/4mg eod to 1/4mg every 4th day)... try 1/4mg every 3rd day to start and watch

" wood " for indicators...

phil has a wonderful thing he posts that describes how to watch your morning

wood as an indicator of e2 levels.... it doesn't work for me (neurological

issues... I use mood instead)

once that's pretty worked out you can add HCG (usual is 250iu on the 2 days

before your weekly shot)... your testes will have shrunk quite a bit probably

and it gives them a boost... and you get a late in the week test level boost

too.

you'll probably end up somewhere around 1/2cc of test a week, 1/4mg of arimidex

e3d, 250iu of hcg on days 5 and 6... but don't try to do it all at once... 1

variable at a time.

ymmv

>

> I am 48, and I have been battling ED/hypogonadism for about 5-6 years.

Originally, my T levels were slightly above the bottom of the range (300 on a

scale of 250-1100) so my doctor prescribed Cialis. Over time, this became less

effective, my T level dropped to around 270, so he prescribed testim (5 tubes

daily). That helped for a few months, then became less effective also. I pretty

much quit taking anything for a couple of years.

>

> Went back to the doc a couple of months ago and (after reading some of the

posts on here) had him check estrogen as well as Testosterone...my T level was

250--but my estrogen was 49! He has me on Androgel now--no effect that I can

see. I have started taking DIM and zinc--he ruled out prescription aromatase

inhibitors because he didn't think the ratio was important. This was my PCP...

>

> So my questions are--should I get another doctor? An endocrinologist? Should I

be taking more things than DIM and zinc? What would be a better ratio? 10-1?

15-1?

>

February 9, 2010

Hi,

if you " accidentally " ordered some arimidex from www.alldaychemist.com and it

" accidentally " got cut into 1/4 tabs and " accidentally " got placed into your

meds box (I'm sure you, like me, have a weekly med box you put your stuff in by

day) every 3rd day you'd MIRACULOUSLY :-} have a dramatic drop in e2 and

estrogen levels.

adjust dosage per phil's " wood " standard.

I'd bet he's unconcerned about testicle size too... so ask him about it after a

while... and ask him " can't that be treated with tiny doses of this HCG

stuff? " ... when he says " NO " (he said no to arimidex so I'd bet money he'll say

NO to HCG)...

so keep getting your blood work from him...

and if you should have " accidentally " ordered some HUCOG HCG from

www.alldaychemist.com when you " accidentally " ordered the arimidex I'm sure you

can understand how you might " accidentally " give yourself 250IU 2 days a week

(but not the week you go in for blood work... you almost don't want to be TO

well).

be aware HCG " spoils " so the 2000/2500iu bottles work best for a month's use...

get some bacteriostatic water (not just sterile water for injection...

bacteriostatic water gives a month refrigerated shelf life) to mix it with

instead of the saline it comes with... try your drugstore first... if not try

www.getpinz.com... you just use a tiny insulin syringe... can't even feel it...

you can get your insulin syringes at the drugstore too (at least in most

states... just ask for a box of Microfines... when asked what for I tell them

B12)

ymmv

but I spent to many years at a medical school to let some MD " god " make my life

worse than it could be.

>

> Sorry--I mis-stated my testim dosage--it was one 5-gram tube daily.

>

> I bought some indolplex DIM today from a vitamin store, so I'll use that one

from now on....

>

> My pcp wouldn't do an estradiol test. He only did total estrogen. He said he

was sure my estradiol would be high because I'm overweight.

>

> He also didn't do an LH or FSH. He did do an SHBG, said it was normal--I have