HGH

[Guest guest]

look at Rejuvenation for more info

My doctor gave me an Rx for HGH, she was very open to it, but of course

insurance company refuses to cover it. My doc is a family doc at a local

health clinic. She is so very nice and open to the whole hormone thing and

has books by Hertoghe and Jefferies. She lets me do what I want!

What is the reason for it? I said I have damage to H-P-A axis. I don't

know why I always had low TSH and was quite hypothyroid, it's a mystery, or

else it's secondary hypothyroidism and/or adrenal hyperplasia. I just

wrote a letter to insurance company to appeal their decision, and I thought

it was a pretty good letter, but probly a wasted effort.

HGH is used just like insulin, subcutaneous injection once a day and I do it

myself. It's no big deal, I learned how from the internet

I think it's good that you are trying the HGH preparation--what they don't

tell consumers is that older peeps aren't going to make much HGH with it.

It is like taking herbs for hypothyroidism when we really need thyroid

hormone.

So let us know if it does anything for you.

Gracia

Gracia

OK, Gracia, could you please tell us all where you get your injectable HGH?

Web site please. With or without prescription? If with prescription, what

kind of doctor do you have? And what is the reason for the prescription/your

condition? Do you inject it yourself, or do you have to go to a doctor (how

often?) to have it done? Sounds expensive to me.

I agree with you that if it is made in the lab, it should be available to

whomever thinks he/she needs or wants it, which would be basically ALL old

folks, LOL.

We all need all the help we can get. .

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[Guest guest]

obviously it depends upon your need for it. I use 1 iu/day and as I said it

is $8-13 per iu.

you have a wonderful doc in Las Vegas who knows all about HGH--his last name

is , not sure of first name. He is MD.

Gracia

Chuck - So how many IU do you need per injection? I thought you said it was

like $1000 per injection.

Charly in Las Vegas

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[Guest guest]

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> what I get is real! It is injectable, Serostim somatropin (rDNA) made in

> Switzerland.

Serostim is not synthetic HGH. Instead, it is a mixture made by

recombinant DNA in mice, which has been found to have similar properties

to HGH in AIDS patients, but it is not bio-identical. The FDA granted it

orphan drug status in 1991 and gave full approval in 1996, but it is

only supposed to be administered concurrently with antiviral therapy for

AIDS.

Evidently the Regional Director for marketing in New York for the Swiss

company Serano, plead guilty to fraud charges in New York in 2004 and is

now in jail. Charges of Conspiracy and Offering to Pay Illegal

Remunerations are still pending against four other marketing executives

at Serano Labs, the makers of Serostim. As a result of the guilty pleas

to various fraud charges, the company has been banned from all federal

health care programs for at least five years and has had to pay a total

of US$704,000,000 for criminal fines and civil liabilities.

http://www.p86.net/serono_to_pay_704_million_for_the_illegal_marketing_of_aids_d\

rug_reports_u_s__hih.aspx

The bootlegging of fake Serostim had become such a problem that three

years ago Serano implemented a special bar code tracking program to

follow its products to the very few U.S. pharmacies that are allowed to

carry Serostim for AIDS patients. If you did not get yours through one

of those, you probably have a fake. If you did get the real thing but do

not have AIDS, then it was sold to you in violation of federal law.

http://www.in-pharmatechnologist.com/news/ng.asp?id=26834-us-report-on

Chuck

[Guest guest]

just after a quick perusal this looks completely bogus to me! maybe a clash

of values here. Serono got in trouble for marketing HGH to AIDS patients,

just when protease inhibitors came on the market?

hmmmm

Even though my doc Rxed HGH for let's say pituitary insufficiency, I am not

allowed to have it unless I have AIDS?

Gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> what I get is real! It is injectable, Serostim somatropin (rDNA) made in

> Switzerland.

Serostim is not synthetic HGH. Instead, it is a mixture made by

recombinant DNA in mice, which has been found to have similar properties

to HGH in AIDS patients, but it is not bio-identical. The FDA granted it

orphan drug status in 1991 and gave full approval in 1996, but it is

only supposed to be administered concurrently with antiviral therapy for

AIDS.

Evidently the Regional Director for marketing in New York for the Swiss

company Serano, plead guilty to fraud charges in New York in 2004 and is

now in jail. Charges of Conspiracy and Offering to Pay Illegal

Remunerations are still pending against four other marketing executives

at Serano Labs, the makers of Serostim. As a result of the guilty pleas

to various fraud charges, the company has been banned from all federal

health care programs for at least five years and has had to pay a total

of US$704,000,000 for criminal fines and civil liabilities.

http://www.p86.net/serono_to_pay_704_million_for_the_illegal_marketing_of_aids_d\

rug_reports_u_s__hih.aspx

The bootlegging of fake Serostim had become such a problem that three

years ago Serano implemented a special bar code tracking program to

follow its products to the very few U.S. pharmacies that are allowed to

carry Serostim for AIDS patients. If you did not get yours through one

of those, you probably have a fake. If you did get the real thing but do

not have AIDS, then it was sold to you in violation of federal law.

http://www.in-pharmatechnologist.com/news/ng.asp?id=26834-us-report-on

Chuck

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[Guest guest]

Charly,

You wrote:

> Chuck - So how many IU do you need per injection?

I think you need to ask Gracia that question, since she gave a price in IU.

> ... I thought you said it was

> like $1000 per injection.

Minimum. I said $1,000 to $1,500 per day, which is probably one

injection per day. This estimated cost range is all over the web.

Obviously it depends on how much you put in each injection and what it

is exactly that you are putting in. This range is for injections of

synthetic HGH, not recombinant DNA hormone grown in mice or for

" releasers " that promise to generate your own HGH.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> ... Serono got in trouble for marketing HGH to AIDS patients,

> just when protease inhibitors came on the market? ...

No, they got into trouble for marketing it to non-AIDS patients, when it

had only been approved for treating AIDS. And, they conspired to accept

falsified prescriptions, knowing full well that reimbursements were

being made for conditions that the patients did not have.

> ...Even though my doc Rxed HGH for let's say pituitary insufficiency, I am not

> allowed to have it unless I have AIDS?

That's the federal law for Serostim. Write your congressman.

This product was rushed to market while bypassing the usual safety tests

and federal controls, precisely because it was intended for AIDS induced

wastage. That orphan drug classification was the basis of the later

restriction, to which relatively few people seem to have paid any attention.

The synthetic HGH can be prescribed for a slightly longer list, but

anti-aging or weight control is considered " off label " usage for both.

Still, many of our Olympic athletes have needle marks, since this

molecule, even the synthetic or recombinant versions, cannot be traced.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

As always, you seem to be an never-ending source of well-documented information,

stemming from your own professional background, as well as from web sites which

look quite authentic to me. How can anybody (Gracia?) doubt that this is real

information, and that Chuck doesn't just make this up? I think the debate (about

HGH) is not over by a long shot, but if we want to stay informed, we need to

read the entire write-ups on these web sites. Some of them are very long,

sometimes technical, you can't just skim it, or speed-read, if you want to

understand.

Life is one long continuous educational process.

Re: Re: HGH

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> ... Serono got in trouble for marketing HGH to AIDS patients,

> just when protease inhibitors came on the market? ...

No, they got into trouble for marketing it to non-AIDS patients, when it

had only been approved for treating AIDS. And, they conspired to accept

falsified prescriptions, knowing full well that reimbursements were

being made for conditions that the patients did not have.

> ...Even though my doc Rxed HGH for let's say pituitary insufficiency, I am

not

> allowed to have it unless I have AIDS?

That's the federal law for Serostim. Write your congressman.

This product was rushed to market while bypassing the usual safety tests

and federal controls, precisely because it was intended for AIDS induced

wastage. That orphan drug classification was the basis of the later

restriction, to which relatively few people seem to have paid any attention.

The synthetic HGH can be prescribed for a slightly longer list, but

anti-aging or weight control is considered " off label " usage for both.

Still, many of our Olympic athletes have needle marks, since this

molecule, even the synthetic or recombinant versions, cannot be traced.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Funny how Swiss drug marketing execs go to jail and the American ones

are still hard at it paying " illegal remunerations " to doctors all over

the country.

Re: Re: HGH

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> what I get is real! It is injectable, Serostim somatropin (rDNA) made

> in Switzerland.

Serostim is not synthetic HGH. Instead, it is a mixture made by

recombinant DNA in mice, which has been found to have similar properties

to HGH in AIDS patients, but it is not bio-identical. The FDA granted it

orphan drug status in 1991 and gave full approval in 1996, but it is

only supposed to be administered concurrently with antiviral therapy for

AIDS.

Evidently the Regional Director for marketing in New York for the Swiss

company Serano, plead guilty to fraud charges in New York in 2004 and is

now in jail. Charges of Conspiracy and Offering to Pay Illegal

Remunerations are still pending against four other marketing executives

at Serano Labs, the makers of Serostim. As a result of the guilty pleas

to various fraud charges, the company has been banned from all federal

health care programs for at least five years and has had to pay a total

of US$704,000,000 for criminal fines and civil liabilities.

http://www.p86.net/serono_to_pay_704_million_for_the_illegal_marketing_o

f_aids_drug_reports_u_s__hih.aspx

The bootlegging of fake Serostim had become such a problem that three

years ago Serano implemented a special bar code tracking program to

follow its products to the very few U.S. pharmacies that are allowed to

carry Serostim for AIDS patients. If you did not get yours through one

of those, you probably have a fake. If you did get the real thing but do

not have AIDS, then it was sold to you in violation of federal law.

http://www.in-pharmatechnologist.com/news/ng.asp?id=26834-us-report-on

Chuck

[Guest guest]

HI ,

I don't think it’s a case of right or wrong - its how you use

information and what information you choose to look at in the first

place.

This is going to be different for everybody. You have to choose the

method of research or enquiry that feels comfortable for you. I myself

often disagree with Chuck but that does not make him wrong. We just see

things differently.

Science can be a slippery beast especially when filtered through people

or organizations who have something to gain.

You will find that Gracia doesn't make anything up either.

I think Physicists have come up with theories to explain how two

completely opposite things can be simultaneously true.

For me I only believe what makes sense to me intellectually and

intuitively - and since I'm not a genius things have to be pretty

straight forward.

After a while researching all this stuff you will be able to recognise

what is useful information and what isn't.

Kerry

Re: Re: HGH

Chuck,

As always, you seem to be an never-ending source of well-documented

information, stemming from your own professional background, as well as

from web sites which look quite authentic to me. How can anybody

(Gracia?) doubt that this is real information, and that Chuck doesn't

just make this up? I think the debate (about HGH) is not over by a long

shot, but if we want to stay informed, we need to read the entire

write-ups on these web sites. Some of them are very long, sometimes

technical, you can't just skim it, or speed-read, if you want to

understand.

Life is one long continuous educational process.

Re: Re: HGH

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> ... Serono got in trouble for marketing HGH to AIDS patients,

> just when protease inhibitors came on the market? ...

No, they got into trouble for marketing it to non-AIDS patients, when

it

had only been approved for treating AIDS. And, they conspired to

accept

falsified prescriptions, knowing full well that reimbursements were

being made for conditions that the patients did not have.

> ...Even though my doc Rxed HGH for let's say pituitary

insufficiency, I am not

> allowed to have it unless I have AIDS?

That's the federal law for Serostim. Write your congressman.

This product was rushed to market while bypassing the usual safety

tests

and federal controls, precisely because it was intended for AIDS

induced

wastage. That orphan drug classification was the basis of the later

restriction, to which relatively few people seem to have paid any

attention.

The synthetic HGH can be prescribed for a slightly longer list, but

anti-aging or weight control is considered " off label " usage for both.

Still, many of our Olympic athletes have needle marks, since this

molecule, even the synthetic or recombinant versions, cannot be

traced.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Yeah, like I said, a life-long process. No one will ever know it all. Just sift

and sort. And trust you own instincts.

Re: Re: HGH

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> ... Serono got in trouble for marketing HGH to AIDS patients,

> just when protease inhibitors came on the market? ...

No, they got into trouble for marketing it to non-AIDS patients, when

it

had only been approved for treating AIDS. And, they conspired to

accept

falsified prescriptions, knowing full well that reimbursements were

being made for conditions that the patients did not have.

> ...Even though my doc Rxed HGH for let's say pituitary

insufficiency, I am not

> allowed to have it unless I have AIDS?

That's the federal law for Serostim. Write your congressman.

This product was rushed to market while bypassing the usual safety

tests

and federal controls, precisely because it was intended for AIDS

induced

wastage. That orphan drug classification was the basis of the later

restriction, to which relatively few people seem to have paid any

attention.

The synthetic HGH can be prescribed for a slightly longer list, but

anti-aging or weight control is considered " off label " usage for both.

Still, many of our Olympic athletes have needle marks, since this

molecule, even the synthetic or recombinant versions, cannot be

traced.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

No matter how much " technical " or " medical " reading you do on 20 years post RAI

(as in my situation) you don't read about the things I am going through now. I

say if someone has found something that helps them live a better quality of

life, and helps them be there for their families... go for it. Technical,

medical and the researchers are not God, nor are we. We do, however, have a gut

instinct to help ourselves. Always listening and following the advice of " they "

has only ever gotten me worse off. My two cents.

Re: Re: HGH

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> ... Serono got in trouble for marketing HGH to AIDS patients,

> just when protease inhibitors came on the market? ...

No, they got into trouble for marketing it to non-AIDS patients, when it

had only been approved for treating AIDS. And, they conspired to accept

falsified prescriptions, knowing full well that reimbursements were

being made for conditions that the patients did not have.

> ...Even though my doc Rxed HGH for let's say pituitary insufficiency, I am

not

> allowed to have it unless I have AIDS?

That's the federal law for Serostim. Write your congressman.

This product was rushed to market while bypassing the usual safety tests

and federal controls, precisely because it was intended for AIDS induced

wastage. That orphan drug classification was the basis of the later

restriction, to which relatively few people seem to have paid any attention.

The synthetic HGH can be prescribed for a slightly longer list, but

anti-aging or weight control is considered " off label " usage for both.

Still, many of our Olympic athletes have needle marks, since this

molecule, even the synthetic or recombinant versions, cannot be traced.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Kerry,

You wrote:

>

> Funny how Swiss drug marketing execs go to jail and the American ones

> are still hard at it paying " illegal remunerations " to doctors all over

> the country.

Actually, these were American marketing executives pushing their

products to American pharmacies and doctors. Only the parent

manufacturing company was Swiss. The " remunerations " were not isolated

occurances; it was a large, systematic kick-back scheme that well

crossed the line beyond perks and entertainment.

Since the first charges were filed, their profits have jumped into the

billions, so the fines may not be so consequential in perspective.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

What a world we live in!!! .

Re: Re: HGH

Kerry,

You wrote:

>

> Funny how Swiss drug marketing execs go to jail and the American ones

> are still hard at it paying " illegal remunerations " to doctors all

> over the country.

Actually, these were American marketing executives pushing their

products to American pharmacies and doctors. Only the parent

manufacturing company was Swiss. The " remunerations " were not isolated

occurances; it was a large, systematic kick-back scheme that well

crossed the line beyond perks and entertainment.

Since the first charges were filed, their profits have jumped into the

billions, so the fines may not be so consequential in perspective.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Kerry,

You wrote:

>

> ... I think Physicists have come up with theories to explain how two

> completely opposite things can be simultaneously true. ...

Couldn't be one of us. You must be thinking of a Platonic Mathematician.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Well I was watching a show on Hawking last night and they were

discussing this in relation to Black holes - but it was pretty muchh

beyond my grasp - except to say that I can relate!

Re: Re: HGH

Kerry,

You wrote:

>

> ... I think Physicists have come up with theories to explain how two

> completely opposite things can be simultaneously true. ...

Couldn't be one of us. You must be thinking of a Platonic Mathematician.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

I don't assume that Chuck makes this up. He trusts his scientific

community! There are lots of long well documented treatises on lots of

things that are completely bogus. I just don't have the great faith that

Chuck has that doctors know what's best for me. They tried to kill me for

too long. When I took over my health managment I got better. I trust some

docs though, like Hertoghe, Broda , Jefferies. They are still voices

in the wilderness.

Gracia

Chuck,

As always, you seem to be an never-ending source of well-documented

information, stemming from your own professional background, as well as from

web sites which look quite authentic to me. How can anybody (Gracia?) doubt

that this is real information, and that Chuck doesn't just make this up? I

think the debate (about HGH) is not over by a long shot, but if we want to

stay informed, we need to read the entire write-ups on these web sites. Some

of them are very long, sometimes technical, you can't just skim it, or

speed-read, if you want to understand.

Life is one long continuous educational process.

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[Guest guest]

Kerry,

You wrote:

> Well I was watching a show on Hawking last night ...

Oh, THAT conundrum. Yes, it seems that quantum mechanics and General

Relativity have problems together. Most of the time, they rule in very

different regimes, the very small and the very big. Black holes bring

the two together, hence the problem.

Nothing to do with HGH.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

except that Hawking could probly use some. And I was just reading

that thyroid meds re-myelinate (?) nerves.

gracia

> Nothing to do with HGH.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Ha ha that is so funny - and probably a little tragic. But really isn't

he an amazing man what he has to deal with?

Re: Re: HGH

except that Hawking could probly use some. And I was just

reading

that thyroid meds re-myelinate (?) nerves.

gracia

> Nothing to do with HGH.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've heard about Hertoghe, and Broda , but who is Jefferies? Where is he?

What's his first name, so I can find him on the 'net?

Dr. Hotze, in Houston, TX, is another one. Check this out: www.hotzehwc.com,

click on " Update on Wyeth Complaint " , scroll down to www.projectfans.org, and

sign the petition. Click on " We need your help " , or " Sign the petition " .

This one is about Bio-Identical Hormones in particular, but in general it is

about FDA taking away our rights to choose our own methods of health care. Get

going, people!

Re: Re: HGH

I don't assume that Chuck makes this up. He trusts his scientific

community! There are lots of long well documented treatises on lots of

things that are completely bogus. I just don't have the great faith that

Chuck has that doctors know what's best for me. They tried to kill me for

too long. When I took over my health managment I got better. I trust some

docs though, like Hertoghe, Broda , Jefferies. They are still voices

in the wilderness.

Gracia

Chuck,

As always, you seem to be an never-ending source of well-documented

information, stemming from your own professional background, as well as from

web sites which look quite authentic to me. How can anybody (Gracia?) doubt

that this is real information, and that Chuck doesn't just make this up? I

think the debate (about HGH) is not over by a long shot, but if we want to

stay informed, we need to read the entire write-ups on these web sites. Some

of them are very long, sometimes technical, you can't just skim it, or

speed-read, if you want to understand.

Life is one long continuous educational process.

--

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006

[Guest guest]

OK, I guess I'm out of the loop. Who is Hawking?

Re: Re: HGH

except that Hawking could probly use some. And I was just

reading

that thyroid meds re-myelinate (?) nerves.

gracia

> Nothing to do with HGH.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

He is a famous physicist who came up with the first (?) mathematical

theory on how Black Holes work - he's pretty much been obsessed with

black holes for over 30 years. You might have seen him on TV sometime he

is in a wheelchair and can only speak through an electronic interpreter

- maybe he can't even do that anymore - he's been disabled since he was

a boy.

Re: Re: HGH

OK, I guess I'm out of the loop. Who is Hawking?

Re: Re: HGH

except that Hawking could probly use some. And I was just

reading

that thyroid meds re-myelinate (?) nerves.

gracia

> Nothing to do with HGH.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

> OK, I guess I'm out of the loop. Who is Hawking?

He is the current Lucasian Professor of " Mathematick " at Cambridge (a

chair endowed in 1663 under II), the same position that Isaac

Newton once held. He is regarded by many as the most brilliant mind on

the planet, although most of his work was completed while suffering from

amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) or Lou Gehrig's disease. He has an

unusually slowly progressing form of the disease, so he has continued to

do theoretical physics, even though unable to speak without a computer

wired up to his fingers. I lost a dear friend to that damnable disease

in about four months.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Hawking

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Thank you Chuck, and Kerry Ann too. All I can say is : My gosh, how come I

didn't know this? I consider myself fairly well educated, and I do read papers

and magazines and watch some TV, but his one escaped me.

So I went to his website, and I learned a lot about him. Very impressive. Very

interesting. But not to me, that's why I didn't recognize the name. That, and

that he is British. I'm not too much into anything British, except the Beatles.

Re: Re: HGH

,

You wrote:

> OK, I guess I'm out of the loop. Who is Hawking?

He is the current Lucasian Professor of " Mathematick " at Cambridge (a

chair endowed in 1663 under II), the same position that Isaac

Newton once held. He is regarded by many as the most brilliant mind on

the planet, although most of his work was completed while suffering from

amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) or Lou Gehrig's disease. He has an

unusually slowly progressing form of the disease, so he has continued to

do theoretical physics, even though unable to speak without a computer

wired up to his fingers. I lost a dear friend to that damnable disease

in about four months.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Hawking

Chuck

[Guest guest]

all I can tell you is that LOTS of people are taking HGH.

I saw Mick Jagger do the halftime show at the superbowl last year and

thought....HGH and testosterone.

Chuck did not tell me I wasn't taking HGH--he said if I was, it was illegal.

Gracia

>I think it is clearly a case of right or wrong. Gracia said she is

> taking HGH; Chuck says she is not and told her what she actually/ is/

> taking. One of them is mistaken.

>

>

>

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