Re: Re: Got some test results back

[Guest guest]

There is some new thinking or talk at Dr. 's forum by the mod chilln, about

using Pregnenolone to keep Cortisol levels up and keep in balance.

Read this link to " Hormones 101 " most of what he talks about will not help me

much I am Hypopituitary but others here this is a great read.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15290

Here is a cut and paste to one of his replys.

====================================================

Re: Pregnenolone Conversion ng/dl to nmol/L

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breeze

Hello mates,

I suspect that my Pregnenolone levels are low, because

LDL: 5.1 mmol/L (0-4.0)

Progesterone: 0.7 nmol/L (<1.9)

ACTH: 14ng/L (9-51)

Cortisol, am: 259 nmol/L (160-650)

which, in my understanding, resonates with Chilln's teachings for old, fat men

with ED seeking hormonal improvements.

Now, I do have a lab test result for

Pregnenolone: 5.6 nmol/L (0.3-6.3) but I can't find a conversion into ng/dL in

order to compare with your American values. Who can help ?

Cheers, Breeze

In you case your issue is that your pregnenolone is " backed up " .

There are several competing feedback loops which drive the synthesis of LDL

cholesterol to pregnenolone, but two obvious ones are:

1 = feedback from too low pregnenolone

2 = increasing ACTH (due to too low cortisol)

In your case ACTH is driving your high LDL cholesterol.

Your ACTH is high in order to create more cortisol - startign with LDL

cholesterol, but the LDL cholesterol only gets as far as pregnenolone.

This occurs when the enzymes which synthesize pregnenolone into prog, 17

hydroxyprog and cortisol are operating at too low ebb, and need a " kick in the

butt " from a boost to your thyroid hormones.

Boosting your thyroid hormones will clear the backlog of LDL cholesterol and

pregnenolone, by flushing the preg into cortisol as required. But it doesn't

determine whether you cortisol-production-line wil stabilize at a point where

it's producing enough cortisol to satisfy your desired physical and mental

stressors.

If you like high stressors, then you may discover that after you've cleared the

backlog of LDL cholesterol and preg by boosting your thyroid hormones, and your

cortisol-production-line has stabilized, that your hypothalamus may still limit

the rate of synthesis of pregnenolone based on how far advanced your body is in

its genetic aging program.

You may wind up (later on) still needing to boost your pregnenolone, but

hopefully not.

So for now you should discuss with your medical professional adviser to boost

your thyroid hormones to clear your backlog of LDL cholesterol and pregnenolone.

You should ONLY opt for progesterone if boosting your thyroid hormones doesn't

mobilize your enzymes to flush your pregnenolone.

..

__________________

Warning:

A) Some males excrete hormones very slowly. Normal doses of hormones, in these

males, accumulate and create symptoms of excess. These males must monitor

hormone levels very carefully to ensure their serum levels don't keep rising and

rising.

Some males excrete hormones very quickly. These people require relatively

high and frequent doses of hormones, and the cost of hormone supplementation,

for these people, is relatively high.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last edited by chilln; 2 Days Ago at 06:20 PM.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Barb <baba@...>

> Subject: Re: Got some test results back

>

> Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 7:42 PM

> Looks like your total T4 dropped from

> last time, IIRC, so you're now low enough to

> supplement.  But interesting that he wants to start you

> on T3 only.  How much?  I hope he's scheduled you

> for frequent testing.

>

> Also interesting that your antibody tests came back normal

> but he thinks you might be celiac.  You said you eat a

> sandwich a day, so if you were celiac, just getting off the

> wheat/rye/barley products would really help your gut. 

> That would also help with any bacteria/yeast, which are

> common in hypo, I think, because of the low body temp. 

> A healthy person has an afternoon temp of 98.6; most hypos

> are in the 97s.

>

> You must be a night owl with those cortisol labs.

>

> Did he test your B12?  If that was below 550, you

> should be taking methyl B12 too.  That can help with

> estrogen.

>

> Glad to hear you're not having to start shots. 

> They're a literal PITA!

>

> Barb

>

>

>

> >

> > Well some of my problems are coming to light I guess

> finally. Short of Barb and Phil most of you don't know the

> saga though.

> >

> > Full thyroid panel this time:

> > TSH - 1.19 (0.40-4.50 mIU/L)

> > T4 Total - 6.9 (4.5-12.5 mcg/dL)

> > T4 Free - 1.2 (0.8-1.8 ng/dL)

> > T3 Free - 2.9 (2.3-4.2 pg/mL)

> > T3 Total - 90 (76-181 ng/dL)

> > T3 Reverse - 27 (11-32 ng/dL)

> > Antibody tests came back normal.

> >

> > Anyway, just like Barb said,......T3 Free not optimal.

> He wants 3.5 to 4.2 on this.

> > Reverse T3 while in range is high according to the

> doc. Barb also bet it would be.

> >

> > He is putting me on a very low dose of T3 only I

> believe. He said Armour would drive my reverse higher, and

> affect other things. We talked about so many things today.

> >

> > My vitamin D25 Hydroxy test came back really low!

> > Vitamin D, 25-OH Total - 19 (30-100 ng/mL)

> > Needless to say I am now on 10,000 IU of D3 for a

> month, and then 5,000 IU.

> >

> > My 4X a day Cortisol was crazy bad!

> > AM - 37 (13-24nM)

> > Noon - 13 (5-10nM)

> > Late Afternoon - 6 (3-8nM) I did this about 5PM

> > Evening - 20 (1-4nM) Did this about 11PM

> >

> > One was normal, and noon was close, but morning and

> night were way high.

> >

> > On top of all this, my fecal test showed a large

> infection of Citrobacter sp. bacterium. It is called an

> 'opportunistic bacteria.'

> > Get to take Cipro for 2 weeks for this one.

> > I also have a large overabundance of yeast. After the

> Cipro, I get to take Diflucan for 2 weeks.

> >

> > He says all of this is having a huge impact upon my

> absorption of nutrients, and is having an affect on

> everything.

> >

> > He is starting me on Arimidex as well to bring down my

> E2 levels.

> > No testosterone for now,....said he would start me if

> I really wanted to, but he wants to try to adjust all of

> this other stuff first. He seems to think that my T levels

> may do quite nicely on their own with some time.

> >

> > He knows I don't want to take anything I don't have

> to, and I am none too thrilled with starting TRT if I might

> not need to. If I do, I will NEVER find out what my levels

> may return to on their own. He says I am NOT primary,.....no

> way, no how. That is why I chose to try to avoid it for

> now.

> >

> > Sorry for the novel, but a couple of you folks wanted

> me to report back with the results of all these tests I had

> done. Here they are!

> > Unfortunately it appears Barb is not around

> lately,....maybe she will see this after the holidays.

> >

> > Any input is appreciated as usual.

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Marc,

As long as you don't do more then 5 mcgs 2x's a day of T3 to start you will find

it will make you feel better it makes eveyone needing it or not feel better. So

do what your Dr. says then do labs again.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Got some test results back

>

> Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 11:56 AM

> Barb,.......my T4 Free was exactly

> the same as it was in August on the tests the endo ran.

> Previously all I had ever had done was TSH, and another T4

> Free in 2009. August was 1.2,.......2009 was 1.3 so they

> were very close. This was the first time I had ever done a

> Total T3/T4.

>

> The antibody tests I was referring to were thyroid

> antibodies BTW.

>

> All I know about the T3 med is he said it was a low dose. I

> seem to recall him saying 5 mcgs? I won't have that or the

> Arimidex until next week sometime from the compounding

> pharmacy.

>

> I thought you had said last time that my T4 free looked

> good, and that I was just not optimal on Free T3?

> You also said that you expected my RT3 to be high when I

> had it tested? This seems to be exactly what this doc is

> saying.

> Am I missing something?

>

> The celiac gene testing comes from the fecal test I had

> done,......something to do with that showed up 'borderline'

> per se, and he suggested I have this done to be sure.

>

> Yes,......my B-12 was 385. I am supposed to start

> supplements for that as well.

>

> The vitamin D I was really not shocked about to be honest.

> I have spent so much time in the sun in my line of work, and

> when I was a young person that I basically cover myself

> totally when working outside. I wear jeans, and I have

> dozens of these long sleeve t-shirts that I wear, along with

> a hat, and even an ear/neck drape when out for long

> periods.

>

> Needless to say my body doesn't get exposed to the sun much

> at all anymore.

>

> As far as the cortisol goes,......I am without a clue. Not

> really a night owl at all, but I am a TypeA personality.

> I have had the blood version of AM cortisol done a couple

> of times previously, and I have always been right at top of

> range or just over.

> This was the first 4X day saliva based test for me. It was

> through a company called Diagnos-Techs or something like

> that.

>

> I asked about an adrenal tumor, but he said with that you

> usually have a high flat line result in Cortisol.

>

> Any further input you have is appreciated, as I am a little

> nervous about starting to mess with my thyroid when it

> doesn't appear to be THAT bad. Will taking T3 screw up my

> thyroid, and make me dependent on the med?

>

> As you can tell,.....I do NOT like meds at all!

>

>

> >

> > Looks like your total T4 dropped from last time, IIRC,

> so you're now low enough to supplement.  But

> interesting that he wants to start you on T3 only.  How

> much?  I hope he's scheduled you for frequent testing.

> >

> > Also interesting that your antibody tests came back

> normal but he thinks you might be celiac.  You said you

> eat a sandwich a day, so if you were celiac, just getting

> off the wheat/rye/barley products would really help your

> gut.  That would also help with any bacteria/yeast,

> which are common in hypo, I think, because of the low body

> temp.  A healthy person has an afternoon temp of 98.6;

> most hypos are in the 97s.

> >

> > You must be a night owl with those cortisol labs.

> >

> > Did he test your B12?  If that was below 550, you

> should be taking methyl B12 too.  That can help with

> estrogen.

> > 

> > Glad to hear you're not having to start shots. 

> They're a literal PITA!

> >

> > Barb

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have this link one of the guys showed me that will let you copy your scanded

labs and post it in a image in a post. I have not tired it yet don't have the

time to play with it. But guys use this can put pages of labs in a post.

http://imageshack.us/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Got some test results back

>

> Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 12:43 PM

> Here is what my antibody tests show

> from Quest on my thyroid panel.

> Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but shows within range,

> and the doc said they were fine.

>

> Thyroglobulin Antibodies: <20 (range <20 IU/mL)

> Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies: <10 (range <35 IU/mL)

>

> I was wrong about the fecal test,.....it came from the

> saliva test.

> Gliadin Ab, SIgA (saliva): 14 (13-15 U/ml Borderline)

>

> As before,....some of these tests are totally foreign to

> me. It would take me about 8 pages to list all of the

> results. Don't worry though, I have no intention of doing

> that.

>

> Back to the T3 med,.....all I know is he mentioned Armour,

> and that if he gave me that it would do this or that most

> likely and would be negative for me. It was actually too

> much info for me to take in at one time to be honest. Pretty

> sure he said it would drive my RT3 higher, but I wouldn't

> swear to it. He was pointing to how all of the stuff is

> converted when he was explaining this.

>

> The guy sure SEEMS to know his stuff, but maybe I have too

> much confidence in him?

> I appreciate the help folks.

> T is not off the table,.....he just thinks that I may

> recover quite nicely with some adjustments and time. I went

> along with that of my own choice, as he would have started

> me towards the 1000 mark right off if I wanted it.

>

> This guy takes Arimidex himself, and talks about the same

> ranges as Phil does. 20 being optimal for most males, and 30

> being the high limit.

>

>

> >

> > The confusion is in total vs Free T4.  You've

> only reported Free T4 in the past, and 1.2-1.3 are not bad

> numbers.  Dr. no prefers a total T4, and sure

> enough, yours is below the halfway mark of 8 that is his

> cutoff.  Above that he won't supplement you with

> thyroid, because he says you make enough and the problem is

> downstream in conversion.  But yours is below 8, so by

> that lab, I'd consider you hypo.

> >

> > Celiac is highly correlated with thyroid autoimmune

> disease, so I would've expected positive thyroid

> antibodies.

> >

> > With that low of a dose of T3, he is trying to

> supplement your own production, not replace it, which is

> good.  It may do the trick.  Report back in a

> month.  Yes, I did say FT3 was too low, and rT3 too

> high, and it is.  Total T3 confirms that you're low.

> >

> > Barb

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here I tried imageshack pic. of me last yr.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Got some test results back

>

> Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 1:12 PM

> Barb,...another thing that I believe

> you suggested previously was my adrenals trying to

> compensate for my being slightly hypo?

>

> I think this is where he is headed also,...if you did not

> say this forgive me.

> As you can see I have test results of being slightly hypo,

> but many of my symptoms are of being hyper-thyroid, as in

> hypertension, rapid heart rate, weight loss.

>

> I think he is trying to take a small load off, and see if

> my cortisol production drops back a bit towards normal,

> along with some of my symptoms. In other words trying to

> confirm the compensatory action of my adrenals, and my being

> in overdrive due to that.

>

> Does this make ANY sense?

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Your in good hands I feel your going to have a better year next year.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Got some test results back

>

> Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 2:05 PM

> Phil,.....thank you so much for all

> of your advice as well!

> What you said makes me feel better about this.

>

>

> >

> > Marc,

> >

> > As long as you don't do more then 5 mcgs 2x's a day of

> T3 to start you will find it will make you feel better it

> makes eveyone needing it or not feel better.  So do

> what your Dr. says then do labs again.

> > Co-Moderator

> > Phil

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well it did not show up in the post but that's me a yr. ago and the most I ever

weighed in my life I am down 40 lbs from this pic.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> > Subject: Re: Got some test results

> back

> >

> > Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 1:12 PM

> > Barb,...another thing that I believe

> > you suggested previously was my adrenals trying to

> > compensate for my being slightly hypo?

> >

> > I think this is where he is headed also,...if you did

> not

> > say this forgive me.

> > As you can see I have test results of being slightly

> hypo,

> > but many of my symptoms are of being hyper-thyroid, as

> in

> > hypertension, rapid heart rate, weight loss.

> >

> > I think he is trying to take a small load off, and see

> if

> > my cortisol production drops back a bit towards

> normal,

> > along with some of my symptoms. In other words trying

> to

> > confirm the compensatory action of my adrenals, and my

> being

> > in overdrive due to that.

> >

> > Does this make ANY sense?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes I see that at Dr. 's the Pic. would show up in the post.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: marc200134470 <cfs38@...>

> Subject: Re: Got some test results back

>

> Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 2:30 PM

> Isn't it funny how people we talk to

> via the internet look nothing like we would expect when a

> pic is shown! LOL

>

> I use photo-bucket myself Phil, but really don't want to go

> through all the stuff of scanning lab reports,......blocking

> my personal info, and then uploading it here.

>

> Just as easy for me to list the stuff that's important.

> This site will not allow you to directly load a

> photo/scan,.....I just tried it. Simply gives the URL to

> click on.

>

> Other non-health forums I belong to will post the pic from

> the image code.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just to show you what aging and getting old can do to you here I am age 21 on my

honeymoon night.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Barb <baba@...>

> Subject: Re: Got some test results back

>

> Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 3:12 PM

> I always expected Phil to have full,

> gray beard, kinda like Santa Claus, ya know? 

>

>

> >

> > Isn't it funny how people we talk to via the internet

> look nothing like we would expect when a pic is shown! LOL

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>